I’m Mad at Christians
by Victoria JacksonI was sitting in Church-Lady Helen’s living room. Someone commented on the illegal immigration problem. I said, “For some strange reason our government doesn’t know that illegal immigration is illegal.” Pious Helen stuck her nose in the air and proudly declared, “I never discuss politics.”
I felt like I’d just been punched in the face.
Is it a sin to watch the news? Maybe it’s okay to watch it, but not to talk about it.
I was sitting in the pew of my old church, sucking on a Coffee Nip, 30 calories, and mentally calculating my caloric intake of the day….so far, I had about 970 calories left for the day if I was to lose 20 pounds by…I focused on the sermon again.
The pastor said, “Okay…I’ll just come out and say it. (angry face) Instead of clicking a button and sending out some email information about the President…why don’t you spend 15 minutes praying for him?
He was looking right at me.
My mind shouted back at him, “Why can’t we do both?!”
I do both.
Are Christians allowed to read and think ? Or are we only allowed to pray?!
Now, when I say, “I’m mad at the Christians,” I include myself. I am a Christian. And, I must confess, if I am to be truthful, that…okay, I’ll just put it out there…the first time I ever voted I was forty something. There I said it. I know. It’s embarrassing. But I’m trying to make a point. It was the year Clinton said, “…that depends on the meaning of the word ‘is’.” I snapped. His adultery didn’t shock me so much. I had three preachers already who had done that. It was that haughty look, lack of shame, and zero repentance combined with that asinine sentence…the meaning of the word ‘is’ . That is what led me to the voting booth. I know. I’m sorry. Well, I always thought politics was for the middle age people. But then, one day, I was the middle age people.
So, I voted Clinton out. My vote counted. Bush won.
Back when I was 18 and first got the right to vote, I asked my Dad who I should vote for.
He said, “Anyone with an R next to their name.”
I said, “Why?”
He said, “They’re closest to the Bible.”
So, I voted for Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and Ross Perot. No, just kidding.
I didn’t vote for anyone. I didn’t know how. I didn’t know where to go. I never saw a sign that said, “Vote Here.” I didn’t know how to “register” or even that I had to register. I didn’t know what the candidates stood for or how to find out. Word of mouth I guess, but no one I hung out with talked about politics, ever.
Al Franken told me once that his family discussed politics at the dinner table every night of his childhood. My family discussed the Bible every night at the dinner table. *Maybe that’s why the Liberals are running the country and not the Christians.
Also, Liberals consider Liberalism their religion. Therefore, they dedicate their souls to the State and we give our souls to Christ. But, I still don’t see why we can’t give our souls to God and our thoughts and energy to Him by being informed and involved in our culture, and keeping our freedoms protected and our country safe. I’m thinking, “Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might.” (Ecclesiastes 9:10 ) So, I’m a U.S. citizen and I should be one with all my might. I should vote with all my might, which to me means be informed, be involved. “Go into all the world and preach the gospel.” (Mark 16:15) It doesn’t say ‘go into all the world, except the political world.’
We need candidates who represent what we believe in. Where will we find them? Look in the mirror.
In my 20’s, Reagan was President. I felt secure. I didn’t have to vote. The middle aged people had handled that for me. I did a handstand on the SNL Update desk to celebrate Reagan’s trip to Rejeivich. He went there, ended Communism, and tore down the Berlin Wall with his charm, courage and deployment of Pershing and cruise missiles in Europe. That’s my President. I am safe.
During my “SNL” years, I even did an Update piece on “Terrorists” but I made a big joke out of it. The word “Terrorist” meant nothing to me back then. I filmed my two year old swinging in the park on the Upper West Side and told Dennis Miller I was “looking for terrorists.” The joke was I was just using the news as an excuse to show home videos of my baby because I was a new, proud Mommy.
When I voted Clinton out, I forgot about politics for a while. The Bushes were in and I felt safe again. They knew the meaning of the word ‘is’.
Most of my pastors would not touch politics. I assumed they were afraid of losing their tax-exempt status and rightfully so. They are there to win souls, not pick presidents. But…
What if a fire is about to consume your neighbor’s house, are you supposed to just pray? or maybe pray and scream, “Fire! Fire!” and run over there and try to pull them out of the flames and save them…and their pets?
My friend Jimmy Labriola likes to say, “God Moves Mountains, But You Bring The Shovel.”
**It’s very interesting that Jewish synagogues and African American churches are saturated with political speech, but in evangelical churches it is strictly forbidden.
During the 2008 election, I asked a preacher relative of mine, “Why aren’t Christians getting involved in keeping this Marxist out of office? Don’t they know that in all Communist countries Christians are persecuted?”
He replied, “The church is supposed to win souls. Then, the people will vote the right way.”
I said, “Ooookaaay…but, I have a couple Christian friends who are voting the wrong way…
… And, you do realize that the Progressives consider your preaching “hate speech” , and there is a new law from Henry Waxman that could be “interpreted” in the liberally dominated courts to send you to jail for preaching the Bible.”
He shrugged.
He could get involved. But, no. Just shrug.
I have Congress on my speed dial now. Is that a sin?
I searched my soul. Jesus said all the commandments can be condensed into these two; “Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, and mind, and Love thy Neighbor as thyself.” ( Matthew 22:37-40 ) I think that means I should put God first and then, fight for my neighbors’ freedoms and protection, and help him out when he’s in a jam.
Proverbs 3:5-6: “…in all thy ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct thy paths.”
I try to do that:
I acknowledge Him in my stand up act.
I acknowledged Him in my recent college graduation.
I acknowledge Him in my political blogs.
I assumed that my fellow Christians were educating themselves along with me. They get Beck, Hannity, and Rush. They have brains. “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.” (Proverbs 1:7)
Alas, they were not.
I spoke at a Tea Party in the Bible belt, where I have many conservative Christian relatives. Not one came.
What gives?
“Evil succeeds when good men do nothing.” Christians WAKE UP!
One friend owns a restaurant chain. I asked him, “Doesn’t this Obamacare affect your business? In a bad way?
He replied, “Um…yeah, but that’s not for four years, right?!”
???!!! What?!
So, come on brothers and sisters, quit preaching to the choir and acting perfect in front of each other. Go out into the real world and preach the gospel in your schools, in your work, and in your vote.
That’s what Jesus would do.
Practicing Jew and brilliant thinker, Dennis Prager said on his radio show recently, “If we’re going to take our country back, the Christians are going to have to get involved.”
I interviewed a few Christian friends. I asked them why so many Christians are not involved. Their answers:
“Don’t let politics get in the way of your mission.”
“A political leader cannot change society, only a changed heart can. A heart changed by Christ.”
“Some people have the gift/talent of politics. Some people have the gift/talent of art, or singing, or business.”
“I’m afraid to get involved. I’ll probably get audited or something.”
“I don’t want to make enemies.”
“I’ll lose clients.”
“We are from another kingdom, not this one. We are not of this world.”
“It is the end times. Jesus is coming back soon. The death of America and a one world government is inevitable.”
Jesus is coming back but He doesn’t want us to sit by the window and wait. He wants us to live in the present. I’m thinking, show up at a Tea Party with Ephesians 6:12 on your poster. Call your Congressman and pray for them on the phone. Teach your children about the founding fathers and basic civics. Read the Constitution with them. Tell your Representative # 202-224-2131 that abortion is murder, and you don’t want your taxes funding it. Tell Reid, Pelosi and Boxer that you don’t want the government deciding whether or not you get chemotherapy when you have cancer. Support Sekulow and ACLJ. Call the FCC Complaint Line # 888-225-5322, press 1-3-0 to speak to someone. Tell them you want to keep your Freedom of Speech, and your Conservative and Christian radio. Call Diversity Czar Mark Lloyd, # 202-418-7390 and tell him that “diversity” means Christians and Conservatives are allowed to speak too. Contact the Media Research Center’s Free Speech Alliance. Watch Glenn Beck and Hannity. Compare them to Joy Behar and CNN. Who is lying? Seek the truth. I know we don’t have time. We are raising families and going to work and soccer games and church. But…
Life is a mission field. Politics is just one small slice of life. Waving the banner of Christ in the political arena is just as important as waving it on a mission trip to Mexico or Haiti, or waving it in a jungle in Africa.
Let’s put Jesus back into politics. He can fix it. He can fix anything. Luke 1:37.
Email this to a friend | Print |
Share on Facebook
| Tweet this
| 
Follow Us on Twitter
Subscribe via RSS
Got a Tip?
921 Comments
It truly is looking like the end times.
I think that the key here for Christians is to not to vote for people who will establish a Christian theocratic government but to vote for people who will stand up for our freedoms of speech and assembly – to be able to say whatever we want, worship however we want, and associate with whomever we want, whether we be Christian – Catholic or Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, pagan, or atheist. We also need to vote for candidates who will actively work to scale back the size and power of government.
Where to start. You just served a 12-course meal of right-thinking (and great quotes).
Since the enemy would greatly prefer that Christians stay out of politics and just keep quite (even in church!), I smell a rat. It is the enemy who wants Christians bound. How can we be both shine our light before men and be mute? We can't.
Yes, pray for your enemies. But keep an eye on them at all times.
They've bought the lie that Christians being actively involved in the maintenance of order is not the Will of God. Either that, or some combination of cowardice, sloth, being afraid to lose a tax-exempt status, or not actually being able to give a reason for one's faith (so they avoid the challenge that will come by not rising to it).
I have no time for these "Christians" that follow their own will.
How did you vote Clinton out? He (unfortunately) did his two terms.
Bush beat Gore, not Clinton.
There is a voice in the surrounding darkness : http://www.bondaction.org/media/radio/radio_show….
Great article. I really enjoy the way you write and your outlook on life. My wife and another lady has Bible study at our house every Tuesday. Yesterday I was telling them how things were going and what I thought was going to happen down the road in the next few years and the visiting Lady told me what I had just said exactly matched what is written in Revelations. I truly believe the Anti-Christ is the Liberal/Socialist/Communist movement, not just one person.
BTW, I saw you the other day on a re-run of In the Heat of the Night.
It took it to mean she cast a vote against Clinton in the only way available, by voting against his successor.
Wonderful post, Victoria! Thank you for getting involved.
We never discussed politics or money in my WASPy upbringing, which I think was a shame. Most people don't discuss politics or want to get involved because they don't see current events affecting them directly. The Iraq war has been going on for a while, but you don't see the rationing, rubber drives or people working in the factories as during WWII. Most people go about their daily lives and don't want to be bothered with "all this stuff." Sadly, I don't think you'll see more people, including Christians, waking up and getting involved until things really start hitting home. That will happen, hopefully it won't be too late. Shocking how 9/11 woke many of us who were sleep walking, but it wasn't enough to wake up everyone. Makes you wonder just what it would take to wake up everyone else?
Ms. Jackson, in response to your confession not to have voted until you were into your 40s, I'm torn.
On the one hand, I'm disappointed in you. Voting is a right that was secured, and is continuously maintained, by blood. Voluntary failure to exercise that right is, to my mind, disrespectful of the sacrifices made by so many.
On the other hand, perhaps the only thing worse than not voting at all is voting without understanding the issues – that, after all, is how we ended up with Bill Clinton and Barack Obama in the first place. Given your admission that you didn't understand the issues, abstention was the most responsible choice, and an example that many tens of millions of people – including many very famous people in your industry – would do well to follow.
But the most important example you set is the one that came later in life. You took the time to learn about and understand the issues, and started using the knowledge you gained to make informed decisions about the votes you cast. If only even a small fraction of the electorate would follow that one…
Several things have happened since I became a Christian at the dawn of the 90's:
1. Christians "tried the political thing" – or think they have. Conservative political action was pretty much de riguer. Republicans won the House and Senate and that felt pretty good. Then GWB got elected and was a big disappointment, not being a transforming radical on the conservative side. And also there were a lot of high-profile Republican scandals. Conclusion for some Christians: Politics doesn't work.
2. Some Christians started to chafe at the whole conservative thing and have forsaken it to identify instead with the left side of politics. After all, the left are all about peace and feeding the poor and not being greedy, right? Sounds pretty Christian. Not like the greedy conservatives who just wanna start wars and neglect the poor.
The take away from all this is, if you're a Christian, your choices are non-political "spiritual" Christian or politically active leftish Christian. Conservative Christian political involvement is hypocritical and useless and worst of all, it's sooooo 1994.
Right on! I have the same frustrating conversations with my fellow Christians and get the same frustrating excuses for apathy. Because that's all it is…an excuse for apathy and laziness. Read the Old Testament. When a king went bad, the whole nation was punished, because the nation chose their kings. We can't afford to be apathetic.
Great comments! I could not agree more. Christians who refuse to get involved in politics and to take a stand are not being spiritual they are being passive. Jesus always stood up to authorities – governmental and spiritual – that oppressed the people. When he told the scribes "to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's," he was actually taking Caesar to task for claiming divine worship.
To be active in the political world, a pastor does not have to become a politician or even to preach on politics directly. The job of the pastor is to proclaim the Word of God – loudly and proudly. He is to cut it straight and proclaim the Biblical standard. The politics will take care of themselves once the divine standard is proclaimed.
I wonder how many of those who told you the Christian should be more interested in saving souls are actually in the soul saving business themselves. The next time they pipe up with that, ask them when was the last time they actually shared the gospel with someone. Any church that is afraid to proclaim the truth because they might lose their tax exempt status is no longer a church of God and the pastor is nothing more than a fraud.
Victoria –
I love the way you write and I am so thankful for your testimony as a Christian entertainer. I completely agree with you that the church needs to return itself in politics in a very deliberate and sustained way. The church abdicated its responsibility a number of years ago and now we are in a mess. We should pray AND do.
well, look at all the catholics voting for abortionists, i mean democrats. and look at all the jews voting for anti-semites, i mean democrats. for some reason people go to church, but like obama and rev wright, they sit in the pews and must not be paying attention, or just intentionally not listening with their hearts. it looks like all the religeous texts are being lost, so that might be why muslims see a opening for their style of life? if we don't want to pray to mecca, we better start reading and understanding the bible.
In 1952 President Truman established one day a year as a "National Day of Prayer."
In 1988 President Reagan designated the First Thursday in May of each year as the National Day of Prayer.
In 2007 Presidential Candidate Barack Obama declared that the USA Was no longer a Christian nation.
In 2009 a National Day of Prayer for the MUSLIM RELIGION was Held on Capitol Hill, Beside the White House.
In 2010 President Obama canceled the 21st annual National Day of Prayer ceremony at the White House.
Now: A fifteen-story mosque and Islamic Center is going up in the shadow of the World Trade Center.
Islam – The Religion of Peace… http://usataxpayer.org/?0088070911
Barack Obama is a Muslim… http://usataxpayer.org/?0097519370
I agree completely. There is way too much passivity and false "holiness" in the church. I see it in people I know. I don't think there is a Christian alive that won't say that this country was started by Christians and judeo-christian ideas, but they seem to forget a little thing called the Revolutionary War where the founders risked all and FOUGHT England in order to become independent. Christians need to stop being Christians and become more like Christ. They need to be like the Christ that got rid of the money collectors in the temple, like the Jesus in Matthew 33 who called the hypocritical pharisees "Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?". Wake up Christian for it is you who will usher in the Antichrist!
dabhidh
I'm not sure I get your analysis. Bush was not a big disappointment to conservatives because he failed to transform. He disappointed because some of his policies were not conservative, including enormous spending, Harriet Miers, not closing the border, etc. None of that is radical but rather common sense. He disappointed conservatives by moving toward the politcal center rather than staying on the right.
If a Christian is annoyed with conservative views, he/she should start to wonder about his walk with God. To move to the left is to move away from God. Leftist policies and a leftist world view is, at times, either un-biblical or anti-biblical. There are pastors on the religious left and their walk is not with the God of the bible but with the God they have invented. There is not one single leftist policy that a Christian could defend from scripture.
What is hypocritical about being a conservative Christian? Why is it useless? You didn't explain how you reached these conclusions. You just threw them out there.
[...] more from the original source: I’m Mad at Christians This entry is filed under America – Blogs, Big Hollywood. You can follow any responses to this [...]
I agree Christian leadership needs to be more bold when it comes to politics. Otherwise, we're going to see our own rights slip away.
A few years ago, our city had a nativity scene in front of City Hall every Christmas season. But then along came a grumpy atheist with the ACLU. They claimed "separation of church and state", but I claimed "free expression of speech and religion". The atheist doesn't believe in Jesus, so it's no different than having the giant Santa Claus statue nearby.
Another nearby city fought this and won, so I thought my church would want to fight this as well. But no, they wanted a "compromise" with the other clergy in the city, to move the nativity scene around to all the churches in the city. Our pastor said we should pray for those that opposed the Nativity and it wouldn't be good to stir up hostility by fighting this.
The city council caved and removed it. But then citizens petitioned to bring it to a vote. The ACLU won though. A little more than half voted to remove the nativity from city hall. This wasn't surprising since most of the church leadership (including my own pastor) wanted to take the neutral position and had no interest campaigning for the nativity. If your own church leaders won't fight, how can you expect to win?
This was just a Nativity though. Hopefully they're more bold when more serious issues are on the line.
I know that punched in the face feeling but I think I come to a slightly different conclusion. I think that there truly are places where politics are not appropriate. One of those is at church. Not that Christians should not be concerned and involved but that we have to guard against adding to the Word, a most serious sin. It's important to separate what are God's commands and what are our own feelings about what is right. Even about non-political issues someone in church and particularly in the pulpit ought to take great care not to express their own opinions as if they are God's.
Lets go for a couple of examples, okay? Rev. Wright. Yes, indeed, and the fellow who originated Black Liberation theology before him. God *must* be on the side of the oppressed, right? And what kind of God is not on the side of justice? What sort of God doesn't stand against oppressors? WWJD?
A pastor can encourage people to inform themselves and be politically active but *theologically* it's a great error to put the weight of God's authority on human opinion. It's also not wise to bring politics into a place of worship simply because it's unkind to do so. People are not required to have right opinions before they are welcomed into fellowship and that punched in the face feeling is something that ought not happen at church.
It's bad enough it happens other places where people are constrained to good manners and do not feel free to respond. Did you stand up in church and say to the pastor, "That's not fair. I pray for Obama too. Every day." Of course not. You had to sit there and take it.
I've been in a "sit there and take it" situation often enough and it is the worst of bad manners to put anyone else in that situation. And this can include any number of social situations as well… informal fellowship at church or family gatherings or, in my experience, science fiction conventions. I've sat in an audience and listened to authors slam religion and rant about politics and had no socially acceptable recourse to respond and it FEELS like being abused. It feels sick to the stomach and angry and powerless because a person can't respond, just can't.
I wouldn't want to be that way, not even just because I'm right.
"Yes, pray for your enemies. But keep an eye on them at all times. "
Darn good advice.
As a Catholic, the way we handle politics is the USCCB (United States Conference of Catholic Bishops) get together and decide what they believe the most important political issues are. They come up with their stance on those positions. Then they make up questionnaires on those issues and send them to political candidates.
They take those answers, the ones they do get back, and come up with a voting guide, but its not really a guide, it doesn't tell us who to vote for. It tells us what the Church's official position on issues, and what the candidates said about it, if they replied at all.
The Church also makes clear that involvement in the community is desired and necessary part of being a good citizen and a Catholic, and voting is most definitely part of that.
Then they stop. Occasionally they'll call out some so-called Catholic candidates that are clearly not following the Church. But other than that, it's up to us to determine who to vote for, not the Church.
I think it works out very well. The educate us, they inform us of candidate's positions, they implore us to act, and then they leave it to us to make the final decisions.
One of the things I like best about my Pastor is politics stops at the front door. Not the discussion of important issues, no, we do hear about them, but actually saying which politician or party to support is a line that is not crossed.
Politics is a nasty, brutal business. It's corrosive to the soul. Christians are too kind and decent to be any good at it. And I say this as an ex-Lib turned evangelical. I'm astonished at how easily evangelicals are rolled by Libs. They just don't have the stomach for it.
When modern liberals start screaming about separation of Church and state its nothing more than a diversion to prevent a rational, reasonable debate.
They know they will lose that, so they will do what ever they can to avoid it. And this is just another of the lame attempts to stifle that.
Do not let them succeed and stifle you.
Given the fact that irregardless of which sect of Christianity you belong to, priests, ministers, etc.. that have come out of the educational institutions that educate them are increasingly less Christian and are in fact more likely to be left wing ideologues, and many of them don't believe in and only seek to exploit Christ's teachings to further the radical left wing Marxist agena.
Victoria's conversation with her minister illustrates that fact. Christ advocated that we care about the poor, especially our poor neighbors, yet whether we're talking about Catholics, Baptists, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, etc… those churches ignore the poverty that exists among their fellow citizens, the tent cities that have sprung up in their back yards, the poverty and suffering that they know exists. C, hrist didn't say to the wealthy man to take the job from his poor neighbors to give to the poor in other countries, so as to further enrich himself. A now former Episcopalian friend said as much to the left wing apologist clergy woman who ran her church who was making public justifications for exacerbating US citizen poverty, to fund the MDG's and to rationalize not enforcing our immigration laws. The Epsicopalian priest, when challenged on what Christ wouldn't have supported couldn't honestly address that point. She only sputtered some rather hateful remarks. My friend left the church that day, and she believes others did as well, after having their eyes opened.
They are more likely to consider their main goal as getting funding for the corrupt UN Millennium Development Goals, that aren't reducing poverty, but are in fact funneling billions of dollars into the purpose of funding terrorism, rape, genocide and abuse of power, funding luxury items and wasteful excesses of the governments and leaders of the governments that receive that funding, as well as being diverted to the pockets of the UN leadership and hierarchy. Several years ago, 26 million of MDG funds went to pay a Spanish artist to create a ceiling mural in a European UN building. Christian clergy in the US know these things, yet they simply don't seem to care, because they aren't honoring Christ's teachings.
Christ admonished us to respect the law, but he also expected us to speak out, to protect the innocent and even to question clergy who run off the rails. He told us to listen to members of the clergy when they preached, but he also stated that we shouldn't put them on pedestals as they are as given to sin as any other human being, and that we needed to question them and expect honest answers from them.
Of course pray that, for example, a president does the right thing, however, Christ expects us to challenge that president when they are doing things that are harmful to us and others, again, Christ told us to try to lead others from sin, but that we also need to protect the innocent from those who refuse to listen and continue to sin. Christ admonished us to beware of the wolves in sheep's clothing, false preachers, and that includes anyone who holds themselves up as a leader, yet who has shown him or herself to be deceptive and corrupt.
I think such members of the clergy need to be exposed, and that doesn't require making a fool of ones self to do so. I think that Christians need to basically hold their church's clergy's feet to the fire, regarding their commitment to Christ's actual teachings, and more Christians need to withhold their financial support for churches that, far from serving Christ, are serving political agenda, by attempting to misdirect and silence the voices of Christians when it comes to politics and how bad politics are harming innocent US citizens.
Church is exactly the place where we should get that "punched in the face feeling." We should get it because the pastor lays out the Biblical standard of right and wrong, of good and evil, and none of us always measure up to the standard. Jesus, John the Baptist, and the apostles were all very good about delivering punches to the face. Jesus meek and mild even made a whip and drove the evildoers out of the temple.
The church should require people to have the right opinions before they become members of the church and are admitted to fellowship. Paul talks a lot about church discipline and even kicked a few people out of the church for not having their heads straight. Why are there more rules for riding a bus than for becoming a church member?
Then evangelicals need to man up and stop being effiminate lumps. I refer you to the gospels where Jesus challenged the establishment and rocked them on their heels. He was never nasty but some of the things He said were brutally honest and packed a punch. In the parable of the vineyard, Jesus charged the establishment with murder for profit and warned them that God would destroy them. Talk about a slap in the face.
If you ask me, if most people "woke up" they'd politely gather in large groups to respectfully protest policies and laws they think are wrong and unjust.
And it would be such a respectful gathering you could even give it a simple, cute, historically relevant name.
Perhaps "tea parties"?
Did you mean neutral or neutered? : ) Thanks for fighting the good fight even if your pastor wussed out. One day he will have to stand before God and explain his lack of spine.
I have a tendency to follow Ben Franklin's statement that "God helps those who help themselves". Using your example, I pray for the president even as I do what I can to try and convince him and others that we're heading down the wrong path.
"For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places." Ephesians 6:12
Did ya'll get that? Humans, people, liberals, democrats, ACORN employess, SEIU members, Nancy Pelosi, (I could go on and on) ARE NOT THE ENEMY. If you proclaim Christ as your Lord and Savior then you darn well better be praying for these people and NOT cursing them.
If I may add, the story about rendering unto Caesar is a bit more complicated. In those days the commandment against false idols was so strictly interpreted that it even extended to likenesses stamped on coins. That's why there were money changers in the Temple. They allowed pilgrims from gentile controlled provinces to exchange their foreign coins to Temple coins so they could make their required donations.
So the coin itself represented far more than just Caesar. To Jews it represented an oppressive, decadent un-Goldy society lording over them. In other words, while the Romans could force their will on the secular world, they couldn't force their religion on them.
Not always. The Catholic Church has been staunchly pro-life for 2,000+ years. And they still are. Just last year the Bishops were calling out Pelosi for her insistence that abortion was in line with Catholic teaching.
Notice she stopped doing that? I don't think shutting up was her idea.
"Teach your children about the founding fathers and basic civics" reminded me of Deuteronomy 4:8-9
"And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today? Only be careful, and watch yourselves closely so that you do not forget the things your eyes have seen or let them slip from your heart as long as you live. Teach them to your children and to their children after them."
Though these instructions were directed to the children of Israel, they apply to us as well. We as adults need to know what the Constitution says, and what the Declaration of Independence promises, and we need to be sure our children know it too. Then we need to take that knowledge and, as posited here, "do." We need to speak up, and explain, and invite. We need to prepare ourselves to rationally discuss the issues. Yes, we need to pray. Yes, we must do that and more.
I am indeed challenged by this post. Not to "do", for I can do that all too easily. The challenge to me is to be certain I pray. Our nation…our world…needs it, and so do the people across the street. For some, "Pray…AND do." For me: "Do…AND pray."
I am sure some will disagree, but I noticed the Christian community going "inward" during the Bush administration. Before then, Christians were proud to contribute to the national debate and were vocal on such issues as the sanctity of life, social mores/traditions, morality and a moral life, ethical behavior, etc.
Bush declared himself a Christian and deigned to say he prayed for wisdom. Anyone remember that?
However, as the Iraq War dragged on the narrative took a decidedly vitriolic turn and Bush and his religion (Christianity) were smeared viciously. Bush and therefore Christianity were constantly criticized against the back drop of whatever the talking point of the day was–blood for oil, murdering millions of iraqis, death and destruction, code pink, anti-war rallies, neo-cons, etc.
In many ways, Christianity was being correlated in our news outlets with death, war, murder. It was a constant onslaught. Atheism/nihilism began an ascendancy. Secularism flourished. Many of our friends who were church goers only a few years before left the church, etc.
Of course now, in hindsight, we see that much of this was propaganda and political posturing coupled with a liberal agenda. With the rise of the internet journalist, we now see verifiable proof of how the news is manipulated and biased and promotes an agenda.
At the time we weren't so sophisticated and many Christians withdrew perhaps even feeling humbled in their faith. It was a time of great "change" and it was disorientating. Agitprop has that effect.
It will take time for Christians to make their way through that haze, but I suspect many feel deceived by the MSM and the agenda and will start to make their voices heard once again.
Actually the money changers weren't doing anything wrong, they were providing a community service. Pilgrims from secular provinces needed to change their money to the Temple coinage before they could make their required donations.
The reason Jesus chased them out of the Temple was to disrupt the daily Temple activities. He was trying to tell the Jews that God did not reside in the Temple, but in their hearts. He foresaw the day when Rome would get tired of the periodic rebellions and destroy Juda. Which they did about 30 years later.
Notice that in Mark 12:16 Jesus calls attention to the image and the inscription. The image would have been that of Tiberius Caesar Augustus and the inscription would have said "Tiberius Caesar Augustus Son of the Divine Augustus." The image would have offended the Jews due to the commandments against idolatry as you mentioned. The inscription also creates a problem because in it Caesar claims divinity and, in the case of the cult of the emperor, demanded sacrifice and worship. Jesus is adament that Caesar has no claim upon these things as they belong to God alone.
You're in the wrong Church. Might I suggest an LCMS Lutheran congregation – preferably outside of a major metro area – if you'd like to commune with like-minded conservative Christians. Or, if there's one close enough, a Cowboy Church will get you immersed in the real deal American Conservative world.
I have a hard time with liberals who claim to be Christian: For me, it just doesn't compute.
So is it the will of God that I shout down my liberal atheist neighbor and completely turn him off to Christianity for all time? Is it more important that people believe in small government and low taxation or that Jesus died on the cross for the forgiveness of sins and rose again? Please see 1 Corinthians 13 and see if you can't make time for your brothers and sisters in Christ.
I HATE it when people say to me, "I don't talk about politics." WTF!!??!! I mean, seriously? "Politics" affects every part of your life, and you don't discuss it/them? Really? What is wrong with you? You get "pissy" when someone cuts in front of you in the deli line, but you don't want to talk about how your health care is going to be rationed, how some will be treated for their illness while you may not be for yours? You are frustrated about how much of your paycheck disappears down a freaking black hole, but you don't want to talk about medicare reform? You would have a HUGE problem with me walking up to you and telling you that I like your jewelry, hand it over, but you are okay with the ever increasing size of government and entitlement programs? I get the whole "turn the other cheek" concept, but where in the Bible does it say, "Roll over and play dead?"
Wow! What a lot of judgmental people! No wonder when asked why they don't go to church so many respond "because it's full of Christians!" You really think this world is all there is and we need to fight to the death to get a form of government a conservative Christian can get behind? Or is your Hope in Christ's return which many believe is coming soon? You really can't have it both ways. Our hope is not in this world. So be about your Father's business which is sharing and showing the Love of Christ Jesus. By all means vote, attend Tea Parties, campaign for candidates that share the conservative ideal but PLEASE don't be unloving resounding gongs and clanging cymbals! That does nothing to win hearts and minds to Christ.
They may not be the enemy, but they are his minions here on earth. Pray for them, yes, but also stand up to them.
I'm sorry, it's called a discussion. Everyone gets to have their say–and yes, even the Christians. You may not agree. That is fine. No one is judging anyone. It's called stating your opinion and discussing your viewpoint.
Would you care to point out a post that you feel "judges" because I was thinking this was an intelligent discussion.
Don't feel too bad. I know what she meant, and I know what you meant.
You stated the obvious and you were voted down for it, z80kid.
Victoria, you are right again! Christians should be well-versed in both the teachings of the Bible and the issues of the day. Disengaged Christians make easier targets.
BTW, quit worrying about your weight. We love you for who you are, not what you look like.
That's my 2%.
Victoria, as a fellow conservative Christian (at least I try to be), I understand your frustration. But while I don't know any of these individuals you cite, I might ask if you have considered whether they see Christianity through the same lenses as you?
Being in the Methodist Church, I have seen a great deal of liberalism seep into the theology. Too many people have forgotten Christ's words, "My kingdom is not of this world," and have sought to translate moral principles like charity for one's neighbors and being good stewards of the environment into a political platform–the old "Social Gospel" of years gone by. Unbelievable as it might sound, this has led a lot of sincere churchgoers to genuinely support Obama and other Democrats, and their socialistic policies. Although your pastor might have simply been trying to be fair-minded, this might explain his stressing of the need to pray for Obama and not spread information about him. I understand the need to pray for him, of course, but that doesn't mean we can't criticize him when the need arises.
I think many ministers and their flocks miss the broader picture. Pray for Obama? How about pray for yourself and that of your neighbor? Perhaps God is trying to tell us something. Maybe he sent Obama to us because we failed to take a hint that we were not doing, or fulfilling, our original mission and promise directly ordained by God. There is no denying we have strayed from our original path in this country. Yeah many Christians are apathetic, and maybe that is precisely the point God is trying to make. Obama isn't the sin, apathy is. Obama is the tool God is using to point to our apathy. Pain in various forms can be a very good attention getter.
Often times what is wrong with Christianity is the Christians themselves. Reading and studying the Bible itself is not enough. Worship of God and Jesus is not enough. Application counts.
I would also like to point out Christians are not just apathetic about politics, they are apathetic about Christianity itself. Evangelicals need to spread and teach the word of God, and often times then the all the other problems in the world take care of themselves, including the culture and politics, which are synonymous these days.
find a conservative church victoria
Recommended reading:
Political Sermons of the American Founding Era, 1730-1805
http://www.amazon.com/Political-Sermons-American-...
Which Bible translation are you using? Can you cite the verses where Jesus told his followers to allow themselves to become enslaved by earthly governments, lest non-believers not like to spent time with them?
Seriously? Go back and read all the comments from fellow brothers and sisters calling out Christians for not being aggressive enough in putting forth conservative political views. One in particular said he had "no time" for these "Christians" (and he really used quotations around the word Christians) because they choose not to fight in the political arena. So you're not really a Christian if you don't discuss politics at your Bible study? That's baloney and I'm calling you all on it. God bless!
"I don't talk about politics."
Possible translations:
"I do not want you to know what a complete nutjob I actually am."
"I do not understand what my politics are and I am afraid you will make me feel stupid by challenging any of my positions and exposing me as unable to explain them, let alone defend them."
"I do not want to have to humiliate you publicly because I know I am right and you are just a moron who has not seen the *O*N*E*T*R*U*E*W*A*Y*. Now sod off you stupid Nazi-Fascist-Commie-Racist-Atheist-Jesus Freak-Puppy Kicker!"
This is interesting because I am Catholic too and I was thinking the same way. But I think the Kennedy's and the Social Justice movement in the Church has sort of bastardized the church's view toward issues and because the hierarchy moves at a slow pace The Church sometimes takes a longview on making a political decision.
Also, you can see confusing politics because The Church allows people to voice their opinion. For example USCCB said "say no to health care" and then super lib Nuns came out "say yes to the health care bill".
And then you have Pelosi going around talking about "the word". (which I think the word she's looking for is narcissist)
My husband and I attended a mass when we were on vaca and before the mass ended a young girl got and asked the congregation to come out with her social justice group in support of the local government raising taxes to pay for more low income housing because as The Church we are supposed to care about low income housing and the government is supposed to provide it.
Here lies the Social Justice disconnect. Shouldn't members of the church be the ones caring for others?
I do think Christians should care about politics because there are a lot of Politicians who clearly care about scrubbing religion out of society.
That's not the point. I'm talking about what Jesus did, his actions. What the money changers were doing or not doing irrelevant.
From: notifications@intensedebatemail.com
To: startropics76@hotmail.com
Subject: EdSki replied to your comment on I'm Mad at Christians
His "minions"? How, pray tell, do we "stand up to them"? If they are the lost, isn't it our job to win them over to Christ? Do we win them over by sitting in judgment as their accusers? Is it your/mine/our job to cast the first stone? By our love for each other the world will know that we are His disciples, isn't that what Jesus said?
The Church definitely has it's social justice wing. In the north east they call the Peace and Justice committees. It comes from liberation theology and there's a nasty strain of it in the local Franciscans.
I had it out with one of the once, but I must say, he was very polite and respectful. I'll grant him that. I do the parish web site, and I post current events from the bulletin. His group was selling Palestinian olive oil with all proceeds going to Palestine. Knowing there's no such place as Palestine, I asked the pastor what he wanted. He forwarded it to the Peace & Justice Committee, who tried to educate me on the middle east. And in return he got educated. After 3 or 4 exchanges the pastor agreed with me and we posted Palestine Territories.
The way I explained it to him was politics stop at the Church door. I refuse to post anything political, and if the priest tells me otherwise, I will thank him for allowing me to help out, and wish him good luck finding a replacement.
Church is the one thing all Catholics should agree upon. For that one hour a week, we agree. That's a start. Then after Church lets see what else we can agree or must disagree upon.
It was amazing how well he took it. And I've never had a request to go political again.
I must be pretty sheltered, because I've never heard of Christians refusing to get involved in politics because it detracts from their "mission." My church leaders have always encouraged us to go out and vote according to our consciences. They'd never, ever suggest somebody to vote for, but they want us to be involved in local, state, and federal politics.
I did not know that, thanks for the clarification.
My opinion is what the money changers were doing is extremely important to understand the message of that event.
For far too many centuries people have used that story as proof Jesus despised capitalism, and entrepreneurs are evil and are to be reviled. That completely misses the point that believers do not have to have the Temple in order to communicate with God. They do it themselves.
I enjoyed your article. Someone recently told my sister to let God take care of it (politics). She and I both did not like that answer because the person was basically saying don't worry, you don't have to do anything. This person forgot that God uses people as tools for His will and that God helps those who helps themselves.
Those who are fighting for our freedoms, including you and the Tea Party, have put selfish things aside such as fear of losing clients or being audited. People need to get beyond how it will effect "me" and start looking at how these policies will effect "us."
Darling this discussion is about whether or not Christians discuss politics. Of COURSE we are going to be discussing Christians and politics. That's the whole point of this thread.
My goodness. It seems you are really looking for something that doesn't exist here. Maybe it's you who were quick to judge–just saying.
But before you accuse me of not addressing your post, I will look at the one post you seem to have highlighted. You seem to take issue with "no time" for these "Christians."
Let's say we were talking about conservatives and that commenter pointed out how some conservatives aren't very conservative in their point of view based on whatever their criteria was and they said "they didn't have time" for those "conservatives."
Would you have a problem with that?
His followers were already answering to the Roman government hence the whole "render unto Caesar" thing. Jesus did not come to overthrow the earthly governments at that time. He came to offer salvation to a fallen world. And he has commanded us to go into the world and offer that same salvation, (see the Great Commission Matthew 28:16-20) not use petty earthly politics to divide. This is a fallen world. If you believe that Jesus is coming back then you have to believe that this world is VERY temporary. If you believe attaining the fruits of the Spirit as listed in Galatians 5:22-23 is a worthy goal then go forth in love. By the way, I'm not sure if you're aware but more people are being saved and surrendering their lives to Jesus everyday in places like China where sharing the Gospel is forbidden then in the United States where we enjoy freedom. Where evil abounds, God's grace abounds even greater!
I've always considered Jesus' statement “Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s” to be an admonishment that we serve multiple masters and have responsibilities to them all. As Christians we have responsibilities to God, as US citizens we have responsibilities to who? To our fellow citizens. This means casting the most informed vote possible. I have no problem with a christian who voted for Obama as long as they can articulate intelligently why they they voted that way, but an explanation like "'cause he's cool" or "'cause my pastor said to" is merely another way of saying "I'm too lazy/ignorant/stupid to act responsibly."
I rate these people as low as those multitudes of anti-Semites that call themselves Christians.
Progressivism, Socialism, Communism… whatever "ism" you want to call it. It's is a religion unto itself. It's the second oldest religion known to man, created the moment that Adam and Eve decided to disobey because they wished to be like God. The Progressives take it a step further as they try to displace God. When they call for separation of Church and State, it is simply to keep you quiet and away from the debate.
How refreshing. Thank you Thunderbottom! My point exactly.
i pray every night that obamie breaks a leg and goes to the horse vet since all our doctors are getting forced out of business.we all know what happens to a horse that breaks his leg
And here I thought Jesus was ALL about politics. Religions rule politics in those days. Jesus died because of politics. But what do I know, I'm no college professor…
Victoria, as a Christian political activist, I agree with you 110%. I'm about to forward this to as many christians as i possibly can. Brilliant. And yes, I think YOU most definitely should be running for office sometime soon. You'd have my vote.
My point is do we deem Christians unworthy of calling themselves Christians because they choose not to engage in political discussions which tend to divide? Victoria's whole point was that Christians aren't outspoken enough about their faith and politics. Well I say our faith is what matters most and if you go about shouting down people who don't believe the same way you do and turn a blind eye to the brokenness that lies within the individual your are missing out on sharing God's saving grace with the lost.
Your response reeks of the false Hegelian dialectic. You speak like a typical liberal. Your use of scripture (devoid of tradition, naturally) is the stuff of enthusiasts that twist it to their own destruction whilst they and they alone "feel" they are guided by the Holy Spirit, the Lord The Giver of Life.
Pathetic.
Thank you, Victoria, for putting this out there. So many people need to think about these points.
Excellent commentary, Victoria! Unfortunately, for every right-thinking Christian who thinks that they shouldn't get politically involved (beyond voting) because their treasures are in Heaven, there are two or three "social justice" Christians attending a church where they preach that Jesus was a socialist and the answer to "What Would Jesus Do?" is taxation and redistribution by the government.
I think that politics should stay out of Mass but I think that Christian's should see how political policies: Socialism, fascism… effect peoples lives in a negative way.
You should check out the website (address below). It's a phenomenal documentary about the "awesome" that is Cuba's healthcare system. Oscar Biscet is a Catholic doctor in Cuba who was put in jail because of his refusal to support infanticide.
I guess this is the intersect of politics and Christian views– as shown in a documentary. Dr. Biscet is a Catholic who believes in the sanctity of life. Castro's Cuba believes in infanticide.
http://www.oscarscuba.com/
So, what do Christian's do? Wind up in jail, I guess.
The director, Jordan Allott, spent some time in Cuba filming (which he describes as eye opening).
The social justice in The Church is a little out of hand. When my husband brought up to the social-justice-support -team-chick that he "didn't like her putting politics in the middle of mass" she said "well, I don't like the Church view on abortion".
Wha??? Something is disconnected…
Excellent , thoughtful comments here! I can't help but notice the lack of profanity and hate being spewed as well as clear, well-stated comments not litered with substandard English and incorrect spelling, though all of us sometimes have typos, an occasional lapse, and so on. In other words, those comments I've read so far have been literate and haven't cause me to want to wash anyone's mouth out with soap. That is one big difference between liberals and Christians, though there are still a few liberals left who can express themselves without profanity. Our president obviously can't – if he is even truly a Christian. I call him a Blackberrian since the Blackberry substitutes for Church in his life.
"This is not a time for lying down to rest. It is a season for service and warfare."
Charles Spurgeon, in his devotional "Morning By Morning."
It may have been from his "Evening By Evening" devotional, so if I've gotten the time of day incorrect, forgive please.
Most of us commenting here understand that Jesus is our foundation, and the word of God is the authoritative truth. Prayer and staying in the word daily are our first priorities. Then it's time to go out and be the salt and light of the world, and that includes politics.
I bet in your view only the King James version is the TRUE Bible. Am I right?
I've never been called a "typical liberal" before. My agnostic liberal democrat sister will get a real kick out of that! Good one, Thomas.
If you agree with the Founders' foundational concept of Manifest Destiny (God established the U.S. to spread freedom throughout the world), then political involvement is included in the "render unto Caeser what is Caeser's" principle. Humanitarian aid missions in Third World countries (especially those who benefit from American Christian generosity) understand that what happens in America directly affects their ability to function. Christians need to cowboy up and develop the tough faith that overturned tables due to cheating and stop equating "spirituality" with wusshood!
I don't think that anyone here is advocating "shouting down your neighbor" but not being afraid to stand up for what they believe in. Is it really "un-Christian"<i/> to protest the growth of an ever more powerful government that believes it can decide what people, Christian or otherwise, can say or how they can earn a living or how much money they can earn or keep or how they can raise their children? It one thing for someone to offer up what he or she says to help the less fortunate; it's another to force people to give what they have to those someone in power deems "less fortunate". If you look at the Ten Commandments, the first four instruct people what they have to do with regard to honoring God and their parents. The remaining Commandments tell people what they mustn't do – murder, theft, adultery, stealing, lying about others, and envying people for their possessions – in order to avoid hurting others.
I've seen that web site before. There's one blogger here at the Big sites that keys in on education about the real state of Cuba, and I think he had the link, ans the story about the doctor.
When it comes to the Catholic Church, the flavor and amount of politics has mostly to do with the individual Pastor presiding. The one over at my sister's Church is a real piece of work. He refuses to perform Christian Burial for soldiers killed in action, and he won't even let the Knights of Columbus in the Church because they hold ceremonial swords. For pete's sake, they're the Bishop's honor guard!
Sounds like the chick is what I've heard called cafeteria Catholics. They pick and choose what they want, and ignore the rest.
Now, in the name of full disclosure, I don't agree with the Church on everything either. But I don't see how you can't agree with the teachings of the sanctity of human life and still even attend the Church.
A few weeks ago the pastor walked up to the line of politics, but as usual, he deftly stopped right at the line. He was commenting on on the feast of the Most Holy Body and Blood, and lead off with "Out in Boston, right in the commons, there's a Catholic center called the Paulists who got introuble with the main office for changing it from Father, Son and the Holy Spirit to the creator, the redeemer and the facilitator." (Not sure if I remember the last one, but it's not important.)
Now unless you're politically aware, you would have missed that. The Paulists center is where John Kerry attends so he can say he's a practicing Catholic, and the home office was the Vatican.
Then he went on to talk about how important it is to us the correct terms, what they are, why they are important.
The same way Liberals voted Bush out, by not voting for McCain.
Great job! I'm getting agro-ier!!! And I do see more folks wearing crosses… Gonna get me some!
Amen, My parents neighbors had been attending our church, it's the opposite scenario, he never came back, and when we asked where he had been, he told us he did not appreciate our pastor talking bad about Obama. I'm trying to figure this man out, he claims to me that he makes $200,000 a year, only claims $25,000 on his taxes, does everything he can to get it under the table and not pay taxes, then is eligible for food stamps and medicaid both of which he leeches on.. He cheats so that he does not have to pay for the consequences of his political actions, almost makes me wish I had some evidence of his real income so I could report him.
Look, I understand what you are saying, but we can't keep walking around being "nice" to everyone while they lead us to slaughter. Remember Jesus in the Temple throwing out the money changers – that's what we need to be right now – throwing out the statists who will lead us to ruin. That episode teaches us that sometimes we can get angry and fight back, as long as we are being constructive.
"not use petty earthly politics to divide" – sounds more like appeasement to me. We are not dividing, the Left is.
And I'm speaking as agnostic and someone raised Catholic. We have to stop being Mr. and Ms. Nice Guy/Gal and get out there and fight at the ballot box. Talk about politics and engage people in that discussion and get them to wake up. If we don't, we become SHEEP and not the kind that Jesus cares for, but the kind that get put in ovens.
By all means vote, attend Tea Parties, campaign for conservative candidates, call your congresspeople and demand they repeal Obamacare, go to school board meetings and demand our children be taught American exceptionalness. I'm for all of that! What I'm against is Christians calling other Christians cowards and slothful because politics is not their cup of tea. For some Christians seeking out the lost in gentleness and love is what God has called them to do and you can't do that when you are filled with this vitriol and hate for people who don't see things the same way you do.
I think those are all examples of people who take the misunderstood concept of "separation of church and state" to a ridiculous extreme. They seem to think that what they vote for politically doesn`t have to reflect what they believe morally. Either that, or they haven't taken the time, like Victoria has, to understand that their faith should be a guide to all areas of their life.
I'm all for it, I just plead with my brothers and sisters in Christ not to look on it as a matter of God vs. the democrats. These are all very earthly matters and when Christians enter the political arena as the Moral Authority it tends to backfire and turn unbelievers off to what it really means to be a disciple of Jesus.
Right on Victoria. I don't think there is anything that needs to be added to your appraisal. Jesus told us NOT to put our light under a basket.
but do not be confused, there is no separation of church and state. that phrase appears nowhere in the constitution. it phohibits congress from establishing a state religion, but it does not prohibit people in and out of the government from having any faith in god.and perhaps the religious right has done a bad job of stressing this idea. also that the rights in the bill of rights, are not rights given to us by the government, but instead we were given those rights by god, and the government cannot take them away from us.
When one believes that you will get your pie in the sky when you die, they are dooming their children to slavery and starvation.
it is that erroneous view that has rendered the Church completely powerless. After all, with that view, things are *supposed* to get worse right? So we might as well just hand the world over to Satan on a silver platter……. right? You should read my blog: http://leahslabyrinth.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/th...
Just because the phrase does not appear does not mean the concept does not appear.
The prohibition on the establishment of a state religion is the separation of Church and State.
That prohibition has two components:
The first, and simplest, is that it prohibits the government from telling people which religion they must follow and support.
The second, and equally significant, is that it prohibits the government from telling religions what doctrices they must follow and rituals they must perform.
Both are of critical importance.
Here's my latest article: "Why Women Should Care About Politics" ….. this is aimed at apathetic Christian women:
http://leahslabyrinth.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/wh...
Kipling,
AMEN Brother. Jesus was not a pansy pacifist.
I leead the men's group at my Church and I am always pointing out how Jesus wasa Man's Man who told the most powerful people when they were dead wrong and going to hell. He tossed money changer out of the temple. Jesus is not a wimp, and he does not expect us to be wimps either!
King James. Yeah. Oh that's funny.
No, the Vulgate.
Thank you Victoria! Any church that doesn't want you to take part in governing are sadly misinformed churches. They need to re-read the Bible. God most certainly wants us to govern until he returns, it is our Christian duty to take part in governance of our countries. Isn't that just common sense too? You may need to look to a different congregation if your Pastor/Priest doesn't start to see the light. They are out there!! Tony Evans is my favorite pastor and just had a sermon on this issue !!
Victoria,
AMEN Sister! What an amazing article!
GOD BLESS You and your ministry!
DO NOT STOP!
Pray and DO! I love it!
No, my dear. If push comes to shove, I'm willing to break one particular commandment as many times as I have to to keep that from happening. I pray it does not have to come to that.
Pete – thanks for clarifying what I meant by "the misunderstood concept of separation of Church and State". While the constiution and its amendments don't use the phrase, the First Amendment has been interpreted incorrectly to become a tool to be used against anything even vaguely related to religion.
BronxZionist clarifies the intent of the First Amendment nicely.
Which commandment? Murder? Murder is only the killing of an innocent person….
You should check out the articles on AmericanVision.org ….. they have a lot of stuff you'd be interested in if you think it's really the end times.
but it also does not prohibit the ten commandments from public buildings, it does not prohibit mentioning christmas, or easter. it does not prohibit a valedectorian from mentioning her faith in god helping her achieve her goals. it does not mention a priest from saying a prayer for a football team. all these examples have been squelched, noting the separation. so there is no concept, it just prohibits the congress, not mayors, not governors, not politicians, not principals, or other busy bodies from citing the separation. the constitution does not need a disclaimer to understand this plain english.
You must be logged in to post a comment.