Bibles
by Victoria JacksonLiberalism is Communism is Atheism
“A rose by any other name is still a rose.”
Liz is driving me to the 9-12 Westwood Tea Party. I’m biting my fake fingernails because I’m one of the speakers and I don’t have a speech yet.
Liz: Do you have your speech all ready?
Me: No…I’m kinda nervous. I mean, where do I start? Should I talk about:
1) Obama’s last speech where he lied 13 times? Not even little sneaky lies you have to research, but big, bold, blatant lies! ”My plan will not fund abortions, or insure illegals!” Lie, lie, lie.
2) The former Liberally-Biased Mainstream Media that is now a completed, fully-functioning Progressive Propaganda Machine? Ignoring the Acorn tapes, and the Van Jones story! That’s called the lie of omission!
3) Or, …hey, you know what I read? I was flipping around in the Bible and since it’s 9 -12 I just flipped to Psalm 12 and it said the most perfect thing…about lying in the government!
Liz: Really? Did you see Glenn Beck today?
Me: The protest sign in the Washinton D.C. crowd that said Ephesians 6:12?
Liz: Yeah!
Me: I looked it up! And, right while I was reading it, Glenn Beck said, kind of apologizing, “I don’t usually do this…ya know, read the Bible on the air…but..
Liz: I know! He read it!
Me: He read the Bible on the air!
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
Ephesians 6:12
King James Version
Me: I wish I had a Bible. I should read that Psalm 12 thing in my speech.
Liz: I think I have a Bible in the car…(she looks around and finds one in the glove compartment!)
Me: You do!
She has one!
I flip to Psalm 12 and read it out loud to her and my bored teenager in the back seat.
“Everyone talks in lie language;
Lies slide off their oily lips.
They doubletalk with forked tongues.
I’m tired of hearing, “We can talk anyone into anything!
Our lips manage the world.”
God, keep us safe from their lies,
From the wicked who stalk us with lies,
From the wicked who collect honors
For their wonderful lies.”
Psalm 12
The Message Version
Liz: You definitely have to read that! It’s perfect!
We get to the Federal Building. It is a beautiful California day. Lots of American flags are flapping against the blue sky. I do a couple handstands on the platform for my handstand photo collection. I bump into my freedom fighting buddies. We hug and admire each other’s signs. I love the one where George Washington has the cartoon bubble over his head that says, “WTF?”
I have Liz’s Bible stuck in the waistband of my jeans because my hands are holding two protest signs.
I start thinking about whether or not to read the Bible in my speech. Why am I afraid to?
This is not a Liberal crowd. Liberals would not approve of Bibles being read in public. They took them out of the schools and are trying to get “In God We Trust” and “One Nation Under God” taken off of our money, and out of the Pledge of Allegiance. Speaking of The Pledge…What about that YouTube video?
–
If that doesn’t reek of Daniel 3:6 and Revelation 13:15 I don’t know what does!
Communists do not allow Bibles. When I was a child, my Dad was writing a check to an organization that smuggled Bibles into Russia. I said, “Why do they have to sneak Bibles?” Dad said, “They’re Communist.”
Atheists do not like Bibles.
All decisions and most political issues all come down to whether you are FOR GOD or AGAINST GOD.
The reason Liberals-Communists-Atheists don’t like Bibles is because they do not want the competition. “No man can serve two masters…” Matthew 6:24 You cannot worship God and the State. You must choose one.
Very interesting that Obama has a new web site called serve.gov. Or, Serve Government.
Reminds me of the Bob Dylan song, “You Gotta Serve Somebody/It might be the devil, and it might be the Lord/but you’re gonna have to serve somebody.”
As I stood in front of the sea of faces, flags, and signs, I opened my mouth and let my heart speak. I saw myself digging the Bible out of my waistband and holding it up in the air. I heard my mouth saying, “I always took my freedom for granted. My freedom to worship. This is the next thing Obama is going to try to take away from us. Newly appointed Mark Lloyd and Cass Sunstein’s agenda is to stop conservative/Christian talk radio and TV and Internet….”
At the end of my speech I said, “Psalm 12 says…” Right then, I was given the “Wrap It Up” sign. I paused for a second. I mumbled something about hoping in God and not a man. Then, I left the podium.
I did not read it out loud. I don’t know why.
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170 Comments
Liberals and Communist don't like Bibles or God because it makes the accountable to a higher power. Truly a sad state of affairs when one feels threatened by a loving God.
Liberals and Communist don't like Bibles or God because it makes them accountable to a higher power. Truly a sad state of affairs when one feels threatened by a loving God.
We all falter, Victoria. Believe, I have done so on many occasions when I have wanted to espouse the words of the Bible to groups of people or even my friends, but it's important to remember that there will always be an opportunity to do so later on.
I agree wholeheartedly with you on liberal, communist, atheists. They feel as though they have competition with something they don't believe in, so they need to fight it as hard as they can. Their day will come.
Victoria…..you have to work back into it……you'll be fine next time…..just be prepared
The warnings against completely secular society are all over the Bible not just because God wants our belief, but because I think we human beings need to believe in something greater whether or not we think we want to. If we reject completely the established faith systems laid out for us, where do we turn? Human beings are neither civilized nor compassionate when they build societies based on the belief of mankind's utter superiority. Completely secular societies have failed spectacularly and tragically all throughout history; the Western European nations are only the latest example of how utter secularism can bring you down.
That is not to say that religion should rule all, but as with many things in our nation, when men are allowed to have faith freely and with no shame and absolutel freeness of spirit, they prosper. ("men" includes women)
Great post, and dead on. There really is no neutrality when it comes to God, much as we enlightened moderns like to think so. You either take him at his word that he exists and is sovereign, or you call him a liar. And the consequences of calling Obama a liar are nothing compared with those of calling God a liar.
Don’t sweat it Victoria, keep fighting!
The left has slowly been successful at turning "freedom of religion" into "freedom from religion". It has become more and more taboo to talk about religion in public, let alone reading the bible aloud. That's only what crazy people do…right? You know, the ones that scream in public to find Jesus, or else you'll burn in hell. So you're either a closet christian six days a week, or a crazy yelling in public. There is no in-between in public anymore. Or at least, it's rare. We've come to feel anxiety about even bringing up God in normal conversations. There is wisdom found in the bible and it is as relevent today as it was 2000 years ago. But, unfortunately, as political discourse becomes totally secular, which was never intended by the way, we have to find inner strength in order to include these religious philosophies. I'm sorry they didn't give you more time, Victoria. I'm sure that if they weren't telling you to "wrap it up", you would read the psalm.
I can't speak for Communists but Atheist Liberals don't like the Bible because it is a work of fiction that Conservative Christians try to shove down our throats in order to justify their narrow worldview.
if it is a work of fiction why get worked up?
If we have a narrow woldview why worry about it? Just vote for someone else and live your life as you see fit
It is starting to become clear what Obama meant when he said "illegals will not be covered". The guy is sneaky. Read my latest blog entry and see if you agree with the game he is playing on illegals and health care:
http://lonewolfarcher.blogspot.com
It is starting to become clear what Obama meant when he said "illegals will not be covered". The guy is sneaky. Read my latest blog entry and see if you agree about the game he is playing on illegals and health care:
http://lonewolfarcher.blogspot.com
Who is worked up? I did vote for someone else and am quite happy in my life. DrPain63 asked a question about why some don't like the bible and I answered it.
[...] Read more here: Bibles [...]
More like turning "freedom from religion" into "NO RELIGION AT ALL" which isn't very free.
The problem is, that not even most conservatives are bible believing, saved christians. So ofcourse the bible offends even some conservatives.They might give lip service to some generic God like our founders, some PC God that does not offend non christian conservatives. I look at it this way, a christian must even sometimes go beyond conservatism and just be a christian. Because in the end, conservatism does not save you, Jesus does. And even conservatives will end up in hell. This is a sad reality, but this world is corrupt, and sinful. A chrstian will have everyone turn on them at some time, conservatives, liberals, anybody who is unsaved, who is not a true christian. Because they cannot get it, what the truth is. Not even all of the founding fathers were saved christians, some free masons or just believed in a deity. That will not cut it with Jesus. All in or all out. No matter who you might offend.
Who is worked up?
You are. Your little profile blurb and latest twitter would seem to indicate that as well as your snotty answer regarding the Bible.
Though I do find the profile blurb to be oddly ironic. Questioning what you think is blind faith seems to be a better answer.
You're part way right. I believe liberals/progressives/socialists/communists think of themselves AS the higher power. To them government is god or their provider.
So you're saying Jesus Christ would want to deny health care to illegal immigrants? Or that you just don't want to pay for it?
Well, for Communist regimes its more like it's a threat to their authority. They also do their best to indoctrinate youth to break familial loyalties for much the same reason.
More so, the leaders don't like the Bible or God cause it gives their subjects hope and hope can be contagious.
If questioning the belief in something that has no basis in facts fits your definition of "all worked up" to you than I guess I will have to concede your point though my definition would be slightly different.
To be honest, I'm not thrilled about using verses from the Bible to help drive home conservative (or liberal) talking points. The Bible wasn't meant to be used as a political tool. I think a part of the reason so many have negative reactions to the Bible is because people have used to too long as a political weapon.
How would you explain the "narrow minded" view of a Conservative atheist, such as myself? You can not blame it on the Bible, can you?
I wouldn't say a belief system that includes the creator of the Universe is a narrow world view. Atheism is THE narrow world view, you see your life as a waste and when it's over you just go to dust like the grass in your yard. How about this, put your faith in "THE" higher power instead of "A " higher power. The history of atheistic liberalism is a history of loss and defeat. It has never worked and has brought poverty and doom to it's adherents. On the other hand the history of Christianity has brought prosperity and goodness to the world ruled by tyrants and despots, and is the foundation of this great nation.
You are right. Look at our liberal leaders. Everything is a crisis to them that they have to fix. Obama has made everything a crisis to try and push his agenda.
Victoria, I too have often read passages in the Bible as meditation. Growing up Catholic, I guess reading the bible was just a part of life. Psalms is always beautiful and inspiring. The beatitudes are wonderful meditations. There are so many loving words in the Bible. How can meditating on living a good life be bad?
"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. " I love thinking about that and what it means.
Don't be ashamed to reference the Bible. Passages from books are referenced every day in public. I doubt anyone would be embarrassed to reference, say, Stephen Hawking–who has come up with some brilliant thoughts. Thomas Jefferson is quoted everyday. The Dalai Lama, Deepak Chopra, Buddha, etc. Everyday one friend or another sends me a phrase or a quote from some guru or another and we never flinch.
Yet, as Christians, we worry about offending someone by quoting the Bible?
I never thought of that Dan as if true you would be the first Conservative Atheist I have ever come across but I doubt your worldview would be based on that biblical scriptures that help formulate many Christian Conservative worldviews. Conservatism is not the problem, the problem is when Conservatism or any political belief system gets entangled with fundamentalist religious views
Charity is when you voluntarily give your own money to help others. Forced charity via taxation and government run health care is not compassion, and not charity.
To use a better example: Jesus told you to give your money to the poor. Jesus didn't tell you to rob your neighbor to give to the poor.
I'm non-religious and I'm essentially pro-bible. I started out believing, then stopped believing and started being very cynical about religion. Then I started recognizing it's a part of human nature, and that I was better off with Christian neighbors than liberal/progressive neighbors. Liberalism is itself a religion with incompatible values to Christianity. The fact that I don't believe in either does not put me on the other side of political issues with Christians. I am happy to be a minority in a mostly Christian nation, non-believers have always been safe in America, even if the majority distrusted or disliked them (and it sounds like you really don't like them, that's fine, being liked isn't one of my inalienable rights).
But do me a favor and don't demonize everyone who doesn't believe in God. You may not be able to imagine how I could be on the same side as you without believing, but I'm telling you I am, and so are probably most "real" non-believers. Liberals who are fervent believers in the state are NOT atheists, they are statists, they're in a kind of secular Islam, and I despise them as much as you do.
bw, please define "narrow view of the world".
That would be biblical worldview, you know like the world is only 6500 years old, that we all originated from Adam and Eve, that the US is a Christian nation I could go on but I think you get the idea. Please feel free to believe what you wish, just don't expect or force others to do so as well
I am not a Christian but I certainly am not offended by Christians. Why would you be? Unless they are trying to force a watchtower down my throat and, really, that hasn't happened in decades to me. I admire a great deal of the bible. As a book, parts of it are thousands of years old. That is fascinating. The Song Of Solomon? Awesome love poems. Psalms are full of good advice. You don't have to be a Christian to see there is a lot of good advice there.
Part Two:
I have a friend who hates christians but she wants you and me to pay for her health care. Her family of four makes 55 thousand a year and she refuses to work although her kids are both in school. They have a large pickup which he needs for work and she has a huge late model SUV. They could live without the jacuzzi and huge SUV but they have chosen to have those things, and a lot of idle time for her, instead of insurance. And they blame everyone but themselves for their lack of insurance.
When I was making a mere 38k a year I was paying for my own insurance. This liberal family wants to take my money and turn me into a slave to provide them with 'free' healthcare so they can continue having huge SUVs and Jacuzzis and such things instead fo health insurance for themselves and their kids. And some how they blame taxpayers for their bad decisions
And just how many Christians do you think believe that?
And just how many Christians do you think believe that the world is only 6500 years old?
Wow that video is scary in so many ways. More for the reason that these supposedly intellegent successful people can be decieved so easily-or worse will go with the flow to further their bank accounts and careers. I am not a George Bush supporter by any means, but how many of these people would have pledged allegence to George Bush? Why would anyone pledge allegence to another man. Obama has never once that I am aware of ever disavowed any suggestion by anyone when he is compared/worshipped as a god. What conceit and arrogance it must take to think you are equal to the creator God or his son. What deception that another person would push these comparisions and worship this man. Don't these people realize that someday they will be face to face with the real God of the universe, who will demand that they give an account of their life? How many of these people actually treat the unimportant people, people who cannot benefit them any way at all, that they come into contact everyday with respect and as equals. My bet is not many.
I tend to dump friends like that
True….one must worship the State.
I find most Christians not to be Literalists when it comes to the the beginning or the end of the Bible. But of course it is easier to say "all christians"
by the way if i am not mistaken J&ws, and Navajos, and Rastafarians, and Hindus and just about everybody has a creation story as part of their culture. and yet he singles out the Christians?
Sure but it is on both sides
I was paying for my own health insurance when I was 23 years old, fresh out of college, making the grand sum of $8.65 an hour as a temp. I drove a cheap car, split the rent with two roommates, and bought all my food on sale, and thus I could afford to buy my own insurance. I think most people could if they stopped overspending in other areas of their lives.
show me where i claimed athiests are intolerant and threw around a label.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Flo Johnson and Big Hollywood. Big Hollywood said: Bibles http://bit.ly/AMBl4 [...]
Victoria,
I agree with another poster about being careful not to throw the Bible around for vengeful political gain, but that doesn't mean that you can't share it or use it for inspiration and guidance in political situations. It is definitely a fine line, but you'll know how to do it, and I have a feeling you'll get many more chances. Just remember the final beatitude from Jesus: Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Matthew 5:11-12
Whenever I see someone like bwjunior commenting that the Bible is a work of fiction I know one thing for certain: that individual has never asked God to show himself. Try it some day bwjunior, you have nothing to lose if you are correct…
I swear that video makes me gag everytime I see it somewhere. Celebrities are so out of touch with reality.
"I start thinking about whether or not to read the Bible in my speech. Why am I afraid to?"
Because it's been demonized by the left and even the believers in it are starting to not believe?
Wow, what a condescending ass you are. Lay off the Dawkins and think for yourself.
I agree Iris Celeste. I hope that bwjunior actually gives it a chance, because there was a time when I felt the same way. But I found that the "wisdom" of the world was bringing me down. As soon as I ACTUALLY started studying the Bible, the wisdom of God's Word opened my eyes and freed me.
Victoria, bless you for stepping out there. Remember, the world has been at war with God since the fall. There are still martyrs in other parts of the planet being tortured and dying for doing what you just did. Christians are being persecuted for the first time in this country, albeit in other more deceptive and insidious ways. I feel your fear. But I know God is in control, He loves His children, and He wants as many of them back as His time will allow. Feel blessed that you are part of His plan.
but that would be hard and not much fun
It makes me uncomfortable to see atheism lumped in with liberalism and communism as if it were equally "evil." I'm not an atheist, but I am an agnostic. I'm also a small-government libertarian-conservative who respects any religious belief that promotes a positive view of life and common-sense morality. The problem with liberalism/communism isn't that it tends to promote atheism – it may do that, but there are also many religious people who are liberal. The problem with it is that it tends to promote the immorality of taking property/money from the people who earned it and giving it to people who didn't earn it.
The Bible is banned in Atheist nations like China, Burma, N.Korea, Cuba, the former Soviet Union. So I completely understand why you hate the Bible.
What non-Christian influenced nation would you want to live in?
Please note: All Scandinavian countries have Christian dominate histories, as do Japan (defeated by Christian nation), and S.Korea, and India… so again, what Atheist dominate, historical nation of Atheists would you want to live in? With a majortiy Atheist, majority athiest military, history etc…
I was SO disappointed when I reached your last line, it brought tears to my eyes. I wish you had read it out loud.
bwjunior, I can only reinforce what has already been posted in response, there are a good number of Atheist Conservatives here, and we get along fine with those of faith. I think you assume entirely too much about Christians. I oppose and support many of the same things Christians oppose and support, but for different reasons. I would think that would dis-prove your view of "narrow mindedness"
So since you believe it's a work of fiction and none of the messages in it are worth following… I'm guessing you don't subscribe to all the old tales from Aesop, and don't believe in those messages from those stories either?
I'm just curious… I mean if you can't take anything from one work of fiction, then by association you can't take any ideas from ANY work of fiction then can you?
anyone who can't engage in Doublethink would probably fit his definition
Gerard,
I think you have hit the nail on the head. I think this country is just now learning to correctly diagnose and name the disease that has invaded our nation. Liberal vs Conservative, Atheist vs Christian had been the early labels for symptoms of something for which we did not have the national vocabulary. However, I think it is becoming clearer that whatever ones favorite flavor of politics or religion (or non-religion), the problem appears more and more to be Freedom vs Slavery. Freedoms of the individual as put forth in the Constitution vs oppresive statist slavery.
bwjunior wrote:
"Conservatism is not the problem, the problem is when Conservatism or any political belief system gets entangled with fundamentalist religious views "
So does a political system that gets entangled with an anti-religious view just fine with you?
Wow, Victoria. I'm reading your piece and thinking to myself that I want to know the Bible as intimately as you do [just started a Bible in 90-days reading program] and then I get to the end, and you didn't read it to the crowd. That was powerful and convicting to me – that we all, no matter how faithful, no matter how intimately we know God or the Bible, can drop the ball. You were already nervous about it and then you got the "wrap it up" signal – you got your excuse to give in to your fear and not read it. I'm not singling you out – just observing – and contemplating the application in my own life. God Bless, Victoria.
…and has also never actually taken the time to read or investigate it for themselves.
Victoria,
I love this story. I love you columns. And I love your subtitle here – "Liberalism is Communism is Atheism."
I love the thought you had about reading the Bible in public. I wish you had gone through with it, and I hope you will next time.
Next time, if possible, before you speak, remember this – 2 Timothy 1:7 – "For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind."
Gosh, I don't know Davis McDavis. Do you think Jesus Christ would demand, under penalty of imprisonment, that other people fork over their own hard-earned money to pay for illegal immigrants' health care?
Do you think Jesus Christ was primarily about making a Christian government or just making Christians?
And, since you want me to apply my Christian values to government in this instance, let me guess. You're also OK when I pass laws against abortion, homosexuality, adultery, disrespect to parents, and gossip, since all those goodies and more are part of the Christian framework.
My best guess here, Davis McDavis, is that you enjoy trying to make Christians look hypocritical by suggesting the 'Christian' thing to do is to support the current incarnation of healthcare reform (no matter what it looks like). But, of course, only if it behooves you and your political agenda to do so. As soon as we move onto abortion or any number of other issues, you'll tell me to keep my faith and Sky God out of the public sphere.
Hey Victoria,
Keep at it! It is a constant struggle, isn't it? Thank you for all you do, you and everyone who is trying, and trying, and trying.
I hadn't seen that video but now I realize that I've seen references to it. And I was going to eat my lunch soon… Gah. Josh Groban, was that him in there? Yeesh. Sell a culture of intelligence? What the crap does that mean? To be honest, my friends/relatives who consider themselves part of the more intelligent culture of the country (just ask them, they'll tell you they are) are some of the most ignorant, callow folks I know. Being practiced in putting on the airs of intelligence does not make one intelligent.
Continue growing braver and stronger Victoria, and we will along with you I hope! God loves you and we do too.
Questioning a belief in something (i.e., God) is quite welcome and will (I hope) be treated with respect. Your initial post, however, seemed more an attempt to inflame – and it worked.
"The Bible wasn't meant to be used as a political tool."
Define political? Frankly, life is political and the Bible and Religion isn't going to be separated from that just because you want them to be if the texts are taken seriously. If you have read the Bible than you know that politics was the driving force behind most of the writings. You should read the quote from Ephesians 6:12 again.
Victoria, and others, what would you say if Glen Beck started quoting the Book of Mormon? He is Mormon after all.
I keep asking Atheists, a dozen so far, on youtube, in person, here, there, and I can't get a direct simple answer.
What non-Christian nation would they want to live in today?
Sweden? Oh Please!!! Japan? Uh, 1945.
One, after answering me with no historical reference, but all the Atheist talking points, eventually said, this questioning is pointless. So of 6 billion people, a scientific poll, I might add, and all these experiments called nations, he couldn't give me an Atheist or non-Christian influenced nation he'd want to live in.
atheists have a creation story too! random muck, yo-yo universe, multiverses, alien beings, crystals, and a theory or another, they call a FACT. Last I recall, theories are beliefs that scientist are supposing and researching for evidence… sounds like soul searching to me.
Ah, you beat me to the punch, Naqamel! Yes! Jesus told us to take care of the "widows and orphans", the "poor", the "least of these". That is a choice we must all make for ourselves – to do so or not. For the government to mandate "charity" and physically take your money to pass around, they remove all sense of charity out of the act.
And to Serious below, FANTASTIC!
then damn our Founding Fathers & the 1st U.S. Congress for daring to print 10,000 manually printed Bibles for schools! damn them!!! (10,000 is like 1,000,000 today, and Bible is almost 2000 pages.)
"I pledge to be a servant to the President…" – Demi Moore (from video clip)
I pledge to serve my country and fellow citizens by standing for truth, for virtue, for the republic, and for the principles proclaimed by our Founding Fathers. I pledge to be a citizen and not a serf. I pledge to govern myself and not to be governed by bureaucrats and petty dictators. I pledge to fight against tyranny and statist control. I pledge to stand for liberty and not licentiousness. And I pledge to raise my children to do the same.
In short, I pledge to stand against Mr. Obama, his administration, and his leftist policies!
If the Book of Mormon had an applicable thought to the subject being talked about, why not? You wouldn't think twice if some one inserted an inspirational Buddhist or Hindu thought into a speech. It's simply a way to magnify the message. Lighten up!
yeah that is what i was hinting at, but didn't want to cause too much damage by bringing it up. I am a campassionate Christian afterall.
true that, Truth, be it capital T or small t is like a diamond, it shines no matter how it is turned.
stay strong Victoria, truth will win out in the end
All of the replies to your post are correct in some respect. There are plenty of reasons communists/socialists/progressives are atheists.
After reading Marx's writings, I got the impression, his beef was all what he saw as wasted human potential and capital. Building Churches and Temples. Human efforts to organize and maintain religious orders. I think he saw that as efforts that should be harnessed to force civilization to live under his grand scheme.
With Lenin, I got the feeling it was ideological. He wanted to remove religion and replace the emptiness in people's lives with worship of the state.
Stalin, pure unadulterated control over every aspect of every one's life, in order to keep and iron fist clenched on society.
But, that's just my opinion.
All of the replies to your post are correct. There are plenty of reasons communists/socialists/progressives are atheists.
After reading Marx's writings, I got the impression, his beef was all what he saw as wasted human potential and capital. Building Churches and Temples. Human efforts to organize and maintain religious orders. I think he saw that as efforts that should be harnessed to force civilization to live under his grand scheme.
With Lenin, I got the feeling it was ideological. He wanted to remove religion and replace the emptiness in people's lives with worship of the state.
Stalin, pure unadulterated control over every aspect of every one's life, in order to keep and iron fist clenched on society.
But, that's just my opinion.
You are definitely in the minority of the minority on that issue. I lve in CA and athiests here scorn, ridicule and deride the Bible and it's teachings. I know quite a few and all of them without exception do the same act when faced with religion or beliefs based on teachings from the Bible. There is no respect for other's beliefs in their belief system since it is morally corrupt.
You are definitely in the minority of the minority on that issue. I live in L.A., CA and athiests here scorn, ridicule and deride the Bible and it's teachings. I know quite a few and all of them without exception do the same act when faced with religion or beliefs based on teachings from the Bible. There is no respect for other's beliefs in their belief system since it is morally corrupt.
You want a book full of fiction, try a college level calculus text book. Using calculus, a mathematician can prove 2 = 1.
Guess that means we should just forgo all engineering, science, physics and such.
No need, I'll be happy to, I have met exactly one atheist in my life who is tolerant of other people's religious beliefs. That's right out of the tens of thousands of atheists I've met over my life time exactly one.
Spend enough time talking with them and sooner or later it will slip out, they think I'm an idiot, they think I'm a moron. The funny part that I always end up laughing about is they pretty much no absolutely nothing about religion or the Bible.
On the other hand, I've known many, many religious people over the years, and have yet to meet one who look down on atheists.
No need, I'll be happy to, I have met exactly one atheist in my life who is tolerant of other people's religious beliefs. That's right out of the tens of thousands of atheists I've met over my life time exactly one.
Spend enough time talking with them and sooner or later it will slip out, they think I'm an idiot, they think I'm a moron. The funny part that I always end up laughing about is they pretty much knosw absolutely nothing about religion or the Bible.
On the other hand, I've known many, many religious people over the years, and have yet to meet one who look down on atheists.
When watching that video, subsitute the word Money for Obama and Fame for Government and you got their true allegiance. What a**holes! I should know as I live in the SFV portion of L.A. and it is the homeland of the liberal Hollywood a**hole comunity. I get to see the a**holes' T-Shirts, bumper stickers and elitist liberal attitude every freakin' day. It makes my day when I piss off one of the a**holes with conservative counterpoints so I have made it my life's ambition.
This is the issue: Liberals do not want to ask "why." They don't care whether a person or family is really unable to work or do the other things necessary to support themselves, or if they're just dysfunctional and lazy. In the same vein, it does not matter to a liberal whether someone is a citizen of the United States. What liberals want is a British-style welfare state. Cradle-to-grave everything, provided by the government, no strings attached. All you have to do is get born and you're set for life. That is their version of a just society. They will not stop until they achieve it. Then everyone will be equal.
I'm sure there are plenty of Christians who believe the world is only 6,500 years old, but funny thing, I've yet to meet a single one.
On the other hand, just a few things you can thank organized Christian religion on is the public school system, the university system, the public health system, modern charity, the Gregorian calendar, astronomy, seismology, modern crop rotation procedures, and the vast majority of mathematical discoveries of the mid to late Renaissance period.
Following the last French revolution there was a large liberal push in Europe to side line the Church from society, so all kinds of lies were perpetrated in order to show the Church as anti-science, anti-progressive, and I'm sad to say, it worked wonders. However the real truth is much more interesting.
Fascinating view points!… I was a little sad after all that reading no one actually said what "Psalms 12" is. So I got off my butt to look it up and it's too long to type… Verse 2 says "They speak falsehood to one another; With flattering lips and with a double heart they speak." Verse 8 (the last) says "The wicked strut about on every side, When vileness is exalted among the sons of men."…. things that make you think "hmmm…."
I agree in principle Ed, however this is not the place to go so deep into such a subject, I would love to meet with all the people on this board and discuss this subject. It would be interesting.
I have more or less taken the plunge and become an atheist. But I'm not a militant atheist. I don't claim that religious people have caused more problems in the world than any other group – although I admit they have caused their share. I don't have a problem with other people being religious as long as they don't disparage me because I'm not. I also don't have a problem with someone reading the bible out loud or in speeches. The bible is filled with wisdom – stories and sayings that can help us through life – as well as (in the King James version) magnificent poetry and prose.
I only object when someone cherry-picks bible verses and uses them as rhetorical bludgeons with which to damage their political opponents. Pearls before swine and all that. Taking a hint from another religion, the Buddha is reported to have warned a questioner against using his teachings to debate with philosophers from other schools. For one thing, winning or losing a debate doesn't affect the truth of either sides' position. Second, arguing about one's religion is a distraction from practicing one's religion. Some people end up pursuing the debate with more passion than they pursue the practice.
Personally I think a lot of the hubris against the Bible comes from people not really knowing much about it or understanding it. I've spent the last several years studying its origins and its history, and its really fascinating.
For one thing, the Old Testament wasn't even officially committed to writing till after the end of the second exile around 450 BC. Before the second exile, the Priestly political party was one of many different political and religious factions vying for power. The Old Testament is their view of Israel history, not the official history. Once they became the supreme religious faction under Josiah, then they started working on making their history the official history.
Here are two books I can't recommend enough for those interested.
Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why
http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behi...
No matter of your opinion of Ehrman, its a fascinating look at the academic field of textual criticism, as well as a nice history on the evolution of the written Bible.
Asimov's Guide to the Bible: A Historical Look at the Old and New Testaments
http://www.amazon.com/Asimovs-Guide-Bible-Histori...
Asimov surgically reviews the Bible comparing and contrasting its passages to know ancient history. I'm in the middle of reading this for the second time, while I read the Bible.
Show me one quote from any of the Gospels where Jesus compels his followers to use the imp[lied threat of government force to coerce non-believers to follow his laws.
Find me just one reference, because I've been looking for it for years. And I certainly can't find it.
Show me one quote from any of the Gospels where Jesus compels his followers to use the implied threat of government force to coerce non-believers to follow his laws.
Find me just one reference, because I've been looking for it for years. And I certainly can't find it.
Gee, I'm an atheist and I'm not "against" the bible. I don't think it's a good thing to make assumptions about other people, do you? It's sort of a height-of-hubris kind of thing to do that, I think. And, since I've read the bible quite a few times myself, I think it says quite a few things about not judging others and walking humbly with your god, right? How does making assumptions about all atheists fall into that category?
I'm an atheist; I'm also pro-life, a libertarian politically, and have no problems whatsoever with prayer in schools, bibles in schools (why would an educational institution ignore the most well-known book in the western world, and the source of most of our literature?), and have been a huge opponent of big government everywhere it raises its ugly head. I don't like it when my elected officials demonize me for disagreeing with their policies, and I also don't like being demonized by people I agree with. I usually enjoy Victoria Jackson's columns, and look forward to them. But if the right is known simply by the people they hate, then I don't see them as a true alternative to the left, who are also known simply by the people they hate. I mean, is that what the bible teaches you?
I thought that freedom mean just that, freedom. Please don't demonize others for exercising their freedom of thought, thanks. I certainly don't do that to believers I know. If you want to criticize certain people for being jerks, then feel free. But criticizing people for their beliefs strikes me as antithetical to traditional American values. I certainly don't do that.
Having said that, I thought the biblical quotes were dead on, as they often are. And what's wrong with that? Nothing that this atheist can see.
God Bless you and your work, Victoria!
I will lighten up the day that those who boast about the Bible (that Mormons also believe in as scripture) not getting respect are often the ones who become unhinged when Buddhist, HIndu, and yes Mormon scripture are quoted. This is the same group that screams Mormons are not Christian and in fact are a cult. There have been some conservatives who say they will refuse to listen to Glen Beck because he is a Mormon. Inflated paranoia on my part? Possibly. A part of reality? For sure.
Since I have a dog in this fight I won't comment too much, but I do find it interesting that So many people thought Romney was a retroactive good idea once the financial fit hit the shan.
and believe it or not Harry Reid is a Mormon as are the Udalls
I will not support any of the scum bag celeberties that I saw on that video. It's too bad because i kind of liked one or two of them.
Then you share something in common with bwjunior.
Intolerant presumption.
Maybe that Psalm was meant for you and the people in the car with you that day–to give you a flow of words and it surely did that! =)
My pledge is to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. My pledge is to the Flag of the United States of America… My ULTIMATE LOYALTY though is to the God that granted me salvation, healing, peace, and the Comforter. But then I believe He ordained this nation in a similar way to the way He ordained Israel. May He Bless Israel. May He Bless the USA. May He Bless you, Ms. Jackson. You are awesome!
Maybe that Psalm was meant for you and the people in the car with you that day–to give you a flow of words and it surely did that! =)
My pledge is to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. My pledge is to the Flag of the United States of America… My ULTIMATE LOYALTY though is to the God that granted me salvation, healing, peace, and the Comforter. I believe He ordained this nation in a similar way to the way He ordained Israel. May He Bless Israel. May He Bless the USA. May He Bless you, Ms. Jackson. You are awesome!
I would never presume to know what Jesus would want to do. All I know is how he asks me to live my life. You see my "made up" Jesus will also be my judge. it is kind of like he is the judge in my probation case. You will live a certain way or face some penalty. Then depending on my actions, he will either take me off of probation or will impose some sort of punishment. I'd look pertty foolish trying to dictate to the judge what his decision should be.
Victoria,
You've just touched a heart that wasn't at that rally.
It gives us strength and courage.
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