Leno vs. Conan vs. NBC: Who Cares? Save ‘The Tonight Show’
by Tim SlagleConan supporters gathered outside NBC stations across the country to protest the move of the Tonight Show from 11:35 to 12:05.
If there is any real blame it should go to Conan’s attorneys who didn’t think of writing a specific time slot for the show into his contract. Yet Conan’s supporters insist that Jay Leno is at fault.

Jay is being caricatured as a cry-baby by Conan supporters. In my opinion, Conan is the one being immature, acting like a sixteen year old, who can’t believe his parents are taking the car away … after he wrecked it.
Few remember that Conan isn’t a pacifist. When his contract was up for re-negotiation back in 2003, he told NBC that he wouldn’t sign the contract until the Tonight Show seat was added to the contract. Jay never really raised a stink about being forced out, because he remembered how he got the Tonight Show in the first place.
Jay’s backstabbing grab of the Tonight Show back in 1992 is legendary, and there was little sympathy for Jay when Conan turned the tables on him.
Back in 2003, Jay was quite remorseful about what he had done to Johnny, and Letterman, and he didn’t want to repeat his mistakes. So he agreed to concede the chair. But 2009 came up faster than he imagined, and when the time came to exit, he didn’t want to go. The 10 PM time slot was a compromise to keep Jay’s revenue stream within NBC, and despite its low ratings, Jay continues to make money for the network.
I don’t really get the protests. It’s only a half hour. Are Conan viewers now getting so old that they can no longer stay up until one o’clock? And why don’t they have DVRs like the rest of us? This is the same generation that made fun of their parents for not being able to figure out how to program a VCR.
It’s almost as if they see it as a personal slight, as a rejection of their generation. Perhaps, Conan taking over the Tonight Show was seen as their move into the mainstream. Unfortunately, things like The Masturbating Bear were left behind in the old slot, and without them, Conan never seemed entirely comfortable in The Seat.
It probably would have worked better if the change had been gradual. Jay could have let Conan guest host a few times, to transition the audience slowly. He never once used a guest host though, probably because Jay used his guest hosting to undermine Johnny Carson. He wasn’t about to let anybody sit in his desk even for a minute. It was almost as if he was afraid to leave, fearing his key card would be deactivated when he returned.
There also seems to be a political undercurrent to the Conan protests. Most of Conan’s supporters seem to be liberal, and there is a mistaken impression that Jay is a conservative. (I would describe him as an old school Kennedy Democrat.) Perhaps the anger over Jay is leftover anger once directed at George W. Bush, anger that has been circulating around the hate-o-sphere for the past year looking for a cause to inhabit
There is some likelihood to that scenario. Because when I mention to some Conan supporters that Conan hasn’t been performing terribly well in the ratings, I get the same response I get from Obama supporters for the President’s dismal performance: “He hasn’t had enough time yet.”
In fairness, I should mention that I never found Conan very funny. I liked some of the surrounding comedy on the show, but Conan himself reminded me of the dorky rich kid, whose father bought his way into the cool fraternity. Making silly faces, begging the audience to laugh, and jumping up and down until they did, never quite appealed to me.
Not that I find Jay any funnier. He never seemed comfortable in the seat either. For the past seventeen years he seemed like he was still filling in for Johnny. But that was fine with me. The Tonight Show still felt like The Tonight Show.
Which is why Jay’s Tonight Show was such a powerhouse; It isn’t always about ratings. Jerry Springer consistently beat out Oprah Winfrey in sheer numbers but never made as much money because he couldn’t get advertisers. Pilsbury wasn’t about to associate their muffins with the likes of Springer’s freak show, so their dollars went to Oprah’s less-viewed show. Despite it’s weaknesses, Jay Leno’s Tonight Show had a warm fuzzy feeling to it.
The Tonight Show at one time was responsible for 17% of NBCs operating revenue, and last year was clearing close to a half a million dollars a week. This compared to the projected losses of 3-5 million dollars for 2010 from Conan makes the decision to move Jay back an obvious one. Giving Conan more time to prove himself is a $30 million gamble the network wasn’t willing to take. Like they say, it’s nothing personal, just business.
Jay Leno’s prime time show will obviously be remembered as the worst business decision since New Coke. When it all shakes out, it will probably be no different than it would have been if NBC let Conan go to another network back in 2004. The difference is, when Old Coke returned, it was more popular than ever. I’m not convinced that the same nostalgia will benefit Jay when he returns.






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It might be unfair to label Leno's prime time show as a terrible decision. The network was at least trying something new that had a possibility of working, as opposed to a lot of decisions that have been proven in the past to be failures.
For my money I can only wish that Steve Allen was still around to show them all how it's done.
"Making silly faces, begging the audience to laugh, and jumping up and down until they did, never quite appealed to me." Me either.
The tonight Show is an NBC property, not Jay's or Conan's. There have been five regular, full-time Tonight Show hosts: Steve Allen, Jack Parr, Johnny Carson, Jay and Conan. Allen had a three year run, Parr was host for five and Carson for 30. As much as I liked Johnny Carson, maybe an entire career for just one talk show is too much. Jay's been on for 17. Perhaps NBC should just have a policy of five years maximum for any talk show host then they move on and get someone else.
It is just business, Lets see if Conan can afford any tissues to wipe away his tears.
NEW YORK (AP) – NBC said Thursday it has reached a $45 million deal with Conan O'Brien for his exit from the "Tonight" show, allowing Jay Leno to return to the late-night program he hosted for 17 years.
Under the deal, which came seven months after O'Brien took the reins from Leno, O'Brien will get more than $33 million, NBC said. The rest will go to his staff in severance, the network said in an announcement on the "Today" show.
Conan – Leno – NBC – I'm done with ALL of them. Blocking the channel so it can't come on in my house even by accident!
There are millions of people angry at Leno for pulling what many believe is an under-handed move to keep his job or get Conan's job. For him to go on TV the other night and act like it wasn't his fault was an insulting joke. He blew it with his new show and doesn't deserve to be rewarded by taking Conan's.
Does NBC seriously think he's going to get the ratings back under these circumstances? I know I won't be watching.
We DVR Leno at 9 (Mountain TIme) and run it at 10:30 – so for us Leno never stopped being our 10:30 Bedtime Story.
My wife liked Conan in the late slot…I don't find anything endearing about him as a show host.
"the one being immature, acting like a sixteen year old, who can’t believe his parents are taking the car away … after he wrecked it." sounds like the republican party! or tea party. yes they are the same.
Do you know that Jay Leno's first guest on the Tonight Show will be……
Conan O'Brien
Jay’s backstabbing grab of the Tonight Show back in 1992
——————————————–
Glad others remember. He even threw his long time manager Helen Kushnic. http://www.nytimes.com/1996/08/30/arts/helen-kush...
forgot toadd: under the bus
It's not a liberal/conservative thing. I'm a conservative, as are most of my friends, and we love Conan. It's about who we think is funny. Conan is funny, Leno is not.
NBC seems to forget it took Leno 18 months to catch up and overtake Letterman in the ratings. But now to make everyone forget about the disaster that was The Jay Leno Show, they're trying to spin it that Conan was the failure and they're bringing Jay back to save the Tonight Show from doom.
Now they look stupid. They should have kept Leno on The Tonight Show and told Conan to take a hike when he demanded NBC kick leno to the curb in 2003. But they were greedy and didn't want Conan to go to another network. Now it looks like he's going to do that anyway.
Bottom line: NBC is done.
"Jay Leno's prime time show will obviously be remembered as the worst business decision since New Coke."
Don't forget that execrable experiment with Chevy Chase in the fall of 1993. It only lasted five weeks.
ten minutes of lame standup. then an actor i don't care about. then some actress i don't care about with a clip from a movie i'm not going to go see. then some dumb ass band.
i fail to come up with a analogy pathetic enough to describe a bunch of people standing in burbank, in the freezing rain, to protest insignificant cast changes to this dying format.
Doesn't it matter to you in the least that Jay Leno told his trusting audience in 2004 that he would retire, and then went back on his word? Does sticking to one's commitments mean anything, or is it okay to break a commitment if you can make more money doing it? Jay Leno could have decided in 2004 that he wanted to remain on TV and gone to another network; he could have decided to accept that his low-rated experiment was a failure and moved on. Instead, he went against what he told his audience he would do. There is a relationship of trust between the host and the audience, and Jay Leno has violated it. If the people come back to watch him, it's their loss.
"Unfortunately, things like The Masturbating Bear were left behind in the old slot…"
Because of that bit, whenever I have some "alone time", I get Khachaturian's Sabre Dance running through my brain. Too much info? Ok. Sorry.
I think it just comes down to who's funnier. Take a national poll and see who wins. That's who gets it.
For my money, Conan is by FAR the funnier comedian. As in Jay's not even the least bit funny.
The problem here is more the greed by NBC's suits, led by the stunningly incompetent Jeff Zucker, not to allow their talent to leave for another network. Zucker was afraid Leno would be fading by 2009, so they locked Conan in as Tonight Show host, and then come 2009 when Leno's still No. 1 in its time slot, they're afraid of losing him to Fox or ABC and set up the ridiculous situation where they both kill their 10 p.m. Eastern ratings and kill those for their affiliates local news and for O'Brien's Tonight Show (which doesn't take all the blame away from Conan not being able to hold the audience — Leno was still No. 1 in the slot for the past several seasons, even after Zucker took NBC to fourth place in the ratings).
My guess is Conan ends up on Fox, probably with an 11 p.m. Eastern show, since the network only does two hours of prime time and most of the affiliates do local news at 10 p.m. That will give him a half hour start on the other late-night shows, and we'll finally be able to judge if the problem was Jay's awful lead-in ratings, or if O'Brien's comedy is better suited for after midnight.
I have a rather unique bias towards Conan. I was a fan of his when he was on Late Night, but I was also the first seated audience member of his new Tonight Show this past June. I waited 17 hours in line (and for most of that time I was 8th in line, but it turns out that the 7 people in front of me were all waiting for standby tickets, and I already had regular tickets). So, to see Conan leave the show so soon after the premiere (when compared to Carson and Leno) is extremely saddening because I was able to witness television history from a very special vantage point. And I also thought that NBC would grant the same amount of time to Conan as they gave to Leno when he took over for Carson- for Leno was performing poorly in the immediate aftermath of his takeover of the show. Leno was able to retain his #1 spot after two years- facing competition from both Arsenio and Letterman. While that does indeed sound like "Give Obama some time", at the same time, Conan isn't making policies that could affect generations of Americans or potentially put the country in danger. I think a comedy show can allow a little more breathing room than the leader of the free world.
Be that as it may, it is true that Conan, despite saying that he wasn't going to change his sense of humor on his final ep of Late Night, did smooth the rougher edges of his sense of humor in his transition to 10:30. But I think that slowly but surely, he would have brought them to the Tonight Show after he had a bit of time for the audience to adjust. Unfortunately, though, that time was never given, which is why he rolled out the Bear in yesterday's episode.
Of course, like Mr. Slagle's opinion of Conan, I never really liked Leno. Maybe it was because he couldn't hold a candle to Carson (who retired at an age when I was able to remember his last few seasons), or maybe it was because I was a fan of Letterman and felt that Dave was short-changed by Leno. Or maybe because I just didn't find Leno's style of comedy on the show funny. I do find his stand-up comedy to be top notch (especially during his appearances on Letterman in the 80s), but as a comedy show host, I just found it lacking- especially with Kevin Eubanks laughing and the band playing those annoying chords after every joke. When given a choice between the Dancing Itos and Triumph the Insult Comic Dog, I'd always choose Triumph.
All in all, though, I respect Conan's decision to leave for one major reason. He helped the retain the Tonight Show as NBC's fulcrum of its late night lineup. Moving it a half hour later would basically be making it Late Night a half hour earlier (which would in turn make Late Night the same as Last Call an hour earlier, and Last Call would just be replaced with infomercials). The Tonight Show is a venerable television franchise, and if NBC wasn't willing to stick with the show being at its traditional time slot, then Conan had to save the franchise at the expense of the sheer uncertainty of starting yet another television show from scratch on another network and potentially destroying his career.
So in a sense, Conan did "Save the Tonight Show". I just hope Jay doesn't destroy it in March.
I haven't really watched The Tonight Show since Johhny left, and the same can be said for Conan when he was on. So it appears to me that the Conan experiment is another example of network TV ADD. Once upon a time a new show was given 13 weeks to find and audience, and if it didn't bring in meaningful ratings numbers it was then canceled. Now a show an be canceled after one or two airings.
Seems that NBC had an itchy trigger finger in letting Conan go, after being bullied by him to give him The Tonight Show gig in the first place. In hindsight NBC should have followed the old adage, "if it ain't broke don't fix it."
How nice that they "look stupid," since that is what they are.
I disagree that everyone I talk to saying the Conan "didn't have enough time" before they kick him off. It's not a question of enough time it's a question of splitting audiences. The people that watched the Tonight Show because of Leno, left the Tonight Show w/Conan because they are now watching Leno. People that just like the style of show probably split 50/50 between watching Leno and Conan, and heavily depended upon other shows in Primetime that they wanted to watch (meaning people that just watch comedy shows often watch Leno ~3 days a week because on the other days that time slot was spent watching something else). You can't expect either Leno or Conan to have the same audience when you give the viewer more options. Think of it this way, when Coke introduced Diet Coke, they could never expect that with 3mil Coke drinkers that Coke will still have 3mil drinker as well as Diet Coke getting 3mil drinks. You could have a few Pepsi drinkers move to Diet Coke due to the Diet feature, but Coke is still got a limited set of drinkers. So, The Tonight Show's audience was split by NBC airing The Leno Show. NBC should have never expected Conan's Tonight Show to have the rating that Leno had. Leno would not have had the rating he had if NBC put a similar show at 10pm in front of him.
Agreed, Leno's standup is quite funny. But on the Tonight Show it felt like the entire show revolved around how much smarter he was or it highlighted the stupidity of other people. Jaywalking (stupid people out on the street), Headlines (either stupid press reports or stupid editors or copywriters missed something), and guests interviews (I felt he'd always have them talk about something stupid they did, instead of just a funny story and if it was just a funny story, Leno would always in some fashion make it sound as if a character in the story was as smart as he was), all felt like Jay-bolster-my-ego sessions. That's why when I started watching late night television, I watched Dave…until he got really weird.
I definitely tend to be more of a Conan fan, but that isn't to say I have a dog in the fight as I don't watch any late night comedy talk shows. I did, however, catch a few episodes of Conan's show when they used to re-run it on Comedy Central and I appreciated most of what I caught.
That said, I feel a special connection to Conan fans who think it is unfair to use poor ratings to bash his show about after such a small amount of time on air. Some shows just take time to build an audience. Much like Enterprise (shedding a tear for it, right this moment – I pour a little out for you Archer) was never given enough time to find its groove and stop being so mediocre, Conan deserved more time to get the show back on track.
I guess I don't have much to add to this discussion after all. I just felt like bringing up Enterprise. To be fair, Enterprise isn't any less loosely related to the topic than trying to find a political connection to Conan fans and whiny libs. Just sayin'.
I hate NBC, so I support the existence of as much chaos as possible.
I also think that Conan's "crazy expensive" skits are REALLY funny! A Bugatti dressed like a mouse! The Rolling Stones soundttrack that NBC must pay for not only for the show, but for all the youtube and hulu video!! Why? Because it's expensive! Hahahahahah!
Less money for PSMBC! Less for GE!
Die, NBC, die!
I specifically remember Chevy saying on tv that he was going to blow Rush's tv show out of the water…then lasted for just over a month. I still laugh when I think of that.
Hey, what do you know? His show actually did make me laugh
This is entirely NBC's fault. Do not blame either Conan or Leno who were just looking out for thier own interests. Just because someone asks for something in a contract does not mean you have to give i to them. NBC could have comprimised with Conan and set a longer time period unless Leno's ratings dropped which would allow them to move Conan to the Tonight Show sooner. This is a total failure of NBC management. The current meltdown could still have been avoided if NBC had let Leno move on. So no more Leno or Conan bashing, the fault is with NBC alone.
Wow, you found the article before I did!
Great point about Conan saving the Tonight Show,
Thanks for your invaluable insight.
Apparently, the people at NBC forced the Bugatti sketch off Hulu and NBC.com. Sickeningly hilarious.
Agreed. This is about individual actions, not political beliefs. While I believe Conan was funnier at 12:35 than he is now–his humor was more suited to that edgier time slot and its audience–and Jay is probably naturally a better Tonight Show host, that in no way excuses what either he or NBC has done to Conan. Conan is the only one who has been principled in all this, standing up for his staff as well as the legacy of a venerable program.
Incidentally, a friend of mine who worked the McCain campaign believed Conan was conservative and Leno liberal. Lots of confusion here, and that's probably the way it should be.
Conan was better a the late night hour than at 11:30 spot. The low budget, quirky humor of the Conan's skits became bland on the tonight show. I hope Conan gets back to his old self when he moves to FOX. As for Leno…He's not the villain in this. He's just the guy who could beat Letterman at 11:30. NBC should have never made this move. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb!
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All good points. I don't get the feeling that it's all about Conan, but you're right in that he isn't as good of an interviewer as, say, Johnny was. (Who is?) But Jay's interviewing abilities are also dismal. He's not selfish with the spotlight like perhaps Conan is, but his constant deprecation is a turn off.
Thanks for the great comment. I'm used to receiving hate filled replies to my comments from liberals (when I comment on liberal blogs), so it's always refreshing when a comment is just a comment and not an old fashioned spewing.
Absolutely, dude. Considering it took Leno 18 months to beat Letterman in ratings, I believe this objection is more than valid. Furthermore, there's the matter of how badly Leno's 10 p.m. show was tanking. True, the ratings were about what NBC expected, and it wasn't too much of a loss in and of itself. But the ratings were still so low that the local newscasts afterwards have been hemorraging viewers ever since. Those declining ratings in turn are responsible for much of the decline in the Tonight Show's ratings. I love the analogy one Internet blogger used: It's like when a hurricane makes landfall. Sure, the beach is going to be devastated, but that neighborhood five miles inland is going to get slammed just as badly. Does that mean Conan would have had higher ratings if not for the Jay Leno show? No. But he deserves a lot better than he got as a result of Zucker's bad decisions.
Incidentally, Glenn Beck just announced Air America's shutting down tonight. At least there's some good news in the world of broadcasting.
Indeed- Jay did say that "only one person could host this show into his 60s, and that's Johnny Carson." Leno will be turning 60 in several months….
I found it ironic that Jay interviewed Michael Jordan for a 10 @ 9 (Central) segment this past week. Both men did not handle the prospect of retirement very well. You have Michael Jordan in June 1998- winning his 6th NBA champeenship with a 3-point shot in Game 7 of the Finals with seconds to go. It was the shot seen around the world. That was a perfect moment to round out his career (especially since the Bulls management decided foolishly to fire Coach Phil Jackson… you're welcome, Los Angeles) and retire right then and there. So he did. But then MJ's love of the game overtook him again in 2001, and was about to announce his return to basketball on a Tuesday in September, but on the same day a really terrible event occurred in New York, Washington, and Pennsylvania. The announcement was delayed for weeks, but he did end up playing again eventually. And how did he do? Nobody wants to talk about it. If he just stayed retired, he'd be remembered for being a great basketball player who finished with a bang. Now, he just finished lackadaisically with a team with no chance at all, and retired with little fanfare.
Same may go for Leno. He was on the Tonight Show for 17 years- second only to Carson. If he just stayed retired in 2009 or went on to produce a show or something, he'd be known as the host who attempted to fill Carson's shoes and did so rather well (in terms of ratings). Now, he'll be seen as the Grover Cleveland of Tonight Show hosts and the host of a failed experiment when NBC was desperate. This is the reason Johnny Carson, despite loving the job so much, didn't go back to TV when he retired. He may have done a cameo on the Simpsons or sent in monologue jokes to David Letterman, but he never did another TV show because Johnny knew that he couldn't top himself, so he wouldn't even try.
Hate to break it to you, Fard, but I'm afraid he will. For the sake of the Tonight Show, I hate to say that, but Jay's reputation has been badly tarnished by this episode, deservedly or not. Hollywood has come out massively in favor of Conan–not that that necessarily counts for anything–and a significant segment of the general public has also been turned off.
As for Conan, I believe this may be his finest hour. I've heard some say that his announcement last week was self-serving and histrionic, but I don't see it that way. For one thing, if he has a shred of humanity in him, of course he'd feel torn up with the livelihoods of all his staff on the line, many of whom have been with him since '93. Also, he's right: to move the Tonight Show to 12:05 would destroy much of what makes it the Tonight Show, something no one else at NBC seems to understand. Sad that he had to pay the price for Zucker's blunders.
This… this times a thousand.
NBC definitely jumped the gun in terms of the viability of broadcast television. They think that people in Conan's demographic watch their TV legally on Hulu or illegally on torrents. They do not believe that a time slot for a show like "Tonight" is important. However, there is still a core foundation of people who will watch a show at its scheduled time (albeit possibly a little later so they can zip past the commercials.
I know that Leno will not gain the reputation he managed to build for the previous 17 years, and for his and his staff's sakes, that's a real shame. I may not find his show appealing, but I did respect his tenure on the show (in much the same way I respect the longevity of shows like Married with Children, but I never saw a single episode), and I was glad that by the time "Tonight" was handed to Conan, it was still a viable brand. But with this recent fracas and the resurgence of Anti-Leno sentiment that's been dormant since 1993, it's possible that NBC has severely damaged the Tonight Show brand to a point where it will take years to repair.
And here's one question I haven't heard an answer to- when Leno retires in about 5 years or so, who will take over for him? Jimmy Fallon? Carson Daly?! Would NBC be willing to buy Conan out of his deal with whatever network he would be on to resign him?
I don't care for either show much, but Conan definetly annoyed me.
How is Conan being a cry-baby? It's not his show that was suffering poor ratings. It was Leno's. It was Leno's risk to move to prime time. Why should the hosts of the other late night shows on NBC suffer for Leno? They shouldn't. Jay Leno is the one how should be looking for a new job.
Comedy like many other aspects in life is subjective so when someone says Conan is Funnier or Jay is Funnier it is usually subjective but not always. I never try to attack anyone personally who disagrees with me because one of my favorite things in life is a good debate or argument and that is not possible when the attacks get personal. Sometimes I will take a position I do not agree with just to debate it with someone else. It is a sad state of affairs that this mess ever occurred. Conan should have been given a chance to grow into the job and NBC should have let Leno out of his contract. I blame NBC alone for this mess and they will get what they deserve but they will also hurt too many people in the process.
Again, I think Conan was right: time slots don't matter as much as they used to, but for something like the Tonight Show, they're still important.
Your last question is one I've been asking myself, and one I really don't think NBC has thought through (as with so much else right now). After all, Conan's got a good 15 years ahead of him, assuming he signs with another network. If NBC were to ask him back, he should try to make Zucker's ouster a condition of his return, which would be a perfect example of poetic justice. If I were a betting man, though, I'd pick Fallon. I personally don't watch or like his show, but he seems to have done reasonably well at 12:35 and to have handled this whole episode with class, and could probably move up in time. On the other hand, Conan himself got Late Night by a fluke, so there's no telling. One thing's for sure: Carson Daly will never, EVER get the Tonight Show, or else he will be its final host.
Up until this mess the Tonight Shows ratings were about half of what they had been. Letterman was surging in the ratings mainly because of the scandal and the curiosity. Letterman kept a lot of viewers becuase Conan had not built a loyal following at his time slot that could compete. Leno wanted to look for a new job but NBC would not let him out of his contract when he left the Tonight Show. So now Conan has a golden Parachute, Leno will go back and both are damaged goods because of NBC.
"Don't forget that execrable experiment with Chevy Chase in the fall of 1993"
What network was that on? Fox? Not comparable. Back then, all Fox had, really, was The Simpsons and maybe Married: With Children.
"I don’t really get the protests. It’s only a half hour."
As others have said, if The Tonight Show airs at midnight, it is no longer The Tonight Show; it's The Tomorrow Show. But nevermind what time it is. If Leno comes on before Conan, his show is The De-facto Tonight Show. The Tonbight Show is the one that comes on first after the local news. the Tonight Show is the flagship of the late-night line-up. If Leno comes on first, I don't care what they call Conan's show, Leno's show will be the flagship.
Yet NBC would continue to refer to Conan's show as The Tonight Show, which would in effect ruin the ancient franchise, at least for a while.
"I feel a special connection to Conan fans who think it is unfair to use poor ratings to bash his show about after such a small amount of time on air"
Especially since being on NBC gave him rock-bottom prime-time lead-in ratings. Also, Leno still comes on before him, no doubt making the general public say to themselves, "The Tonight Show? Didn't I just watch this?"
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What I can't understand is why NBC couldn't have been more creative (e.g., give each man 26 weeks of The Tonight Show so there never have to be reruns, offer Conan the 10PM slot for a trial period to see if he can do something with it, etc.). Maybe the tried some of these offers but I think the 26 week split would have been ideal for both men.
You are 100% right, Conan was to take over when Leno retired. What a back staber. I'm done with Leno. I thought Conan was the best late night host since Steve Allen. I hope all Conan fans will stop watching this old man and his same old routine. We must boycott his sponsors. NBC WHAT HAVE YOU DONE! I will never forgive you.
Fred
Evening all. I saw that a poster mentioned that NBC gave Leno 18 months to overtake letterman but dropped Conan after only 7. I;m not sure that's a valid point. When Leno took over the Tonight Show he had to establish himself as a talk show host and gain a following. While succeding Carson may have given him a leg up he still had to do the heavy lifting to establish himself. Conan had already gained a following on his show so when he switched he should have at least carried is 1:00 base but the ratings seem to show otherwise.
The point the author makes on the advertising is maybe the most telling. Low ratings can still make money providing the audience is appropriate to your product. If Conan's demographics at 11:30 don't fit with the advertisers willing buy at that time then it really doesn't matter how good he is he won't be on long.
It's not like Leno didn't have the experience or a following, though. He guest hosted for Carson for years every week on Mondays, so he knew how to host a talk show… somewhat. Plus, he was a headlining comedian before that- making repeated appearances on Letterman, so people knew who he was and followed him eventually.
Conan's 12:30 following for the most part did go to the Tonight Show. However, most of that following was in the coveted 18-34 demo, and most of the people (I believe) that tuned in to Leno were a bit older than that. Plus, if I'm not mistaken, Conan's audience was always smaller than Leno's given the later hour, so there was a smaller base to work from than Jay's regular audience. Unfortunately, much like Jay in 1992, there was a dramatic drop off after the newness of the show went away. Fans of Jay who didn't like Conan swore off the Tonight Show entirely, as fans of Johnny did with Jay.
But you're right- Letterman did manage to rope in a good amount of viewers (a lot of Jay fans who decided to give Dave a second look, and a lot of others who were intrigued by the Sarah Palin debacle, and the subsequent sex scandal.) I still set Conan and Dave on my DVR so I could watch both when I have the time.
On top of all that, there's the very anemic prime time schedule Conan had as a lead-in during his first few months. When Jay took over in May of 1992, NBC had shows like "Fresh Prince", "Quantum Leap", "Seinfeld", "Law & Order" (just the one), "Cheers", "Wings" and "L.A. Law"; solid programs that would afford NBC to take the temporary hit in late night numbers. When Conan took over in June of 2009, he had to contend with "I'm a Celebrity…", "America's Got Talent", "The Philanthropist", "Southland", and reruns of the Thursday night lineup. Then in the fall, it all got discombobulated with the arrival of Jay's show- a show no one saw.
But you're right. In the end, it's about ratings and demos. Nothing wrong with that. A network wouldn't be on the air if it didn't care about ratings. NBC simply chose the worst possible time to take in a new Tonight Show host (during the summer schedule and at a point when they were in last place overall)- knowing from past history that the ratings would dip whenever any new host takes over for the show. And when they couldn't afford the loss in numbers from the only part of their schedule that was actually making money, they got desperate and tried to rearrange their tried and tested schedule that remained constant for over 25 years (Tonight, Late Night, Later/Last Call).
Yeah right. But you have plenty of time to comment on it here. Your lack of sincerity is obvious.
You will watch.
Bedtime story. Are you 8 years old. How cute you know how to type and fall in love with Leno.
"the one being immature, acting like a sixteen year old, who can't believe his parents are taking the car away…after he wrecked it." Sounds like the Democratic party – or Obama. Yes, they are the same.
Just ask everyone who voted for Brown.
Why is Big Hollywood in the tank for Jay Leno? It's seriously fucking annoying to have my favorite conservative news site making these shitty op-eds consisting of "It's Conan's fault for not writing every niggling detail into the contract".
I have to be honest here and state I haven't watched late night talk shows in, what, 25 years? That said, I so dislike NBC and The CEO of it's parent corporation, anything that hurts them makes me smile just a little. Perhaps the only exception would be if it helped the utterly dreadful David Letterman.
Not a fan of late-night tv, except for an occasional bit of Craig Ferguson, but I always thought Conan was a dreadful replacement for Leno, who at least manages to interview interesting guests without acting like a hyperactive five-year-old. Of course, nothing would make me watch Letterman, who's the most condescending, annoying, ego-inflated host on tv – well, except for some of those "ladies" on The View.
I'd say that NBC (aka Nothing But Crap) was done, except that there's still one bright spot on Monday night, which has sparked a new nickname – Nothing But Chuck! Hehehehehe…..
so much for NBC. My friends and I have been referring to it all year as Nothing But Crap,
Conan kicks puppies for fun. true story.
It was and never is who is funnier. It is about who is the better host of the show. Conan is not funny he is absurd, a branch of funny. Conan might be a student of comedy and a decent comedy writer but he is a one trick pony comedy wise and that is absurdity. Absurity is a legitimate branch of comedy but a small branch. As a host Conan's bit was to be all about Conan and that has not changed. The Tonight Show Host is not the Center but the spotlight director. He should shine the spotlight on the guests and step out of the way when needed. Conan never learned that lesson.
http://thompsonstshirts.wordpress.com
I don't understand why we're expected to like one or the other? I like both, however I don't think either man has good interviewing skills. As others stated they both made the shows about THEM . When Carson did the show it was an interview show with comedy. Conan and Leno do comedy shows with something that resembles interviews.
Comparing the two men's styles is like apples and oranges, Leno's style came from being a standup comic, Conan, lest people forget wasn't a performer when he got the show. If I'm not mistaken Late Night was his first time ever performing in front of an audience which would explain his ADD style.
I just watched it twice on youtube. It cracks me up everytime.
NBC s*cks so hard.
I'm with you. I like both for thier own individual talents and styles which are different as night and day. No one will match Carson and they should not try to. Carson had his style and America got comfortable with it. NBC has ruined a great show for some time to come.
Lets all take a breath here. Conan was far better than jay. The biggest issue here is age. If you want the younger peopleto watch then will to cater to them with someone who is closer to their age and closer to the issues that matter to them. You can only hold on to the aging crowd so long. Look how good jimmy kimmel is doing. Thats the best late night talk show. Keep workin on your cars jay, that should be enough. Out!
I don't care where either of them end up. If they put on a good show, I'll watch them when i can.
I think they should all be put in prison. Zucker, Conan, Leno, and Letterman. Man, I'm sick of all of them.
Just put 'em away. Seriously.:)
What NBC has failed to do in this situation is capitalize on it. It's been extremely obvious since it all went public who the public wants to see. Conan low ratings have suddenly soared as more and more of his old and new viewers tuned in each night. Where have Leno's numbers been as his show counts down to cancellation? Pretty much unchanged. Does that simply fact alone not alarm NBC execs?
They have spent the last 2 weeks turning Conan into a major star and much watch TV. Their response to all this? Kick him to the curb. Why? They are fooling themselves to believe Leno will return and bring the ratings back to the Tonight Show. Conan will probably get a show on another Network and go head-to-head with Letterman and Leno. Letterman will probably keep most of his audience although some of his will go back to Leno. Leno however will lose a lot of his as people tune into Conan. I know I was one that use to watch Leno and then Conan every night. I'll be one of the many no longer watching Leno and the Tonight Show after Jan. 22nd.
My take-
"The Tonight Show" was created in a time and in a social environment now long past. 11:30 pm was very late for much of America and the show back then was 90 minutes. It was adult entertainment not geared to the '20-something' audience. People of substance came on the show, not jusy show biz people of the media's latest love child.
Those days are long gone. The magic that was part of those days is long gone. "The Tonight Show" is a relic of an earlier age.
Jay Leno has become a bit of a relic himself. Not only that he is closing in on 60 y/o, but he is from another age. It is embarrassing to watch him trying to 'connect' with people 30 – 40 years younger than he is. He's amusing enough, but he isn't all that funny to me. There is a show that is in desperate need of revamping. Get rid of all that clutter. What a nightmare that set is.
Conan O'Brien – semi-funny guy that I do not find entertaining. His asides and comments and silly movements don't add up to much for me. Why does he think that acting wildly stupid is amusing?
I rarely watch any of these shows. They are just not worth my time. And my time isn't that valuable.
If ONLY the Republican party was the same as the Tea Party 90% of the road blocks facing conservatives would be gone.
and above all, the man was all class.
None of these "comedians" have been funny for 20 years.
How 'bout some fresh blood? Give someone, anyone, a chance to be funny!
Come on Conan was good. Now we go back to the same ol thing once again. Whenever Conan goes to a new network which I hope is FOX Im following him. I like Jay Leno better than Letterman but Conan always had me laughing on his late night show. He deserved to move up to the tonight show. But because of politics and ratings and other garbage there letting him go and keeping Leno a man who couldn't draw before 10 o'clock in America? Screw this, screw NBC. This is gonna come back for them as a mistake when they really have to find a new host when Jay is older, but then again NBC has been making mistakes after they lost Sunday NFL day games and the NBA? NBC you suck!
There is always something better on then the Tonight Show.
I can't stand either Leno of O'Brien.
So this is Conan's swan song tonight. I'll tape it to see what he does, but I don't have high hopes for a great show.
Will Leno go all sanctimonious tonight at ten?
The days when television was fresh and new are gone. The days of the magic of television are gone. The days of 'late night' are gone, made tedious by repetition, useless guests, crappy bands playing noise and hosts working to hard to be everyone's friend.
So how did the "backstabbing" Leno get the show? All I remember is that Carson wanted Letterman while NBC wanted Leno.
Not to mention the talk shows of Magic Johnson (canceled after 8 wks.) and John McEnroe (5 mos.).
"So how did the 'backstabbing' Leno get the show?"
All I know is what I learned from a tv movie I watched, which portrayed Jay's manager/agent/whatever as a real ballbuster. Also, I think Jay hid in a closet and listened to an executive meeting at one point.
When people say Jay backstabbed, all they mean, really, is that he swooped in and took it from Dave, who had up until the last minute been the heir apparent.
The Tonight Show is beyond saving at this point… Jay Leno's already tarnished it beyond repair with his brand of 'comedy' — his audience must be the same ones who make the atrocious Two and A Half Men the ratings success that it is and Paul Blart: Mall Cop a box office smash.
Johnny didn't want to go.
Jay not only squeezed Letterman out, he forced Johnny into an early retirement. At the time Leno's ratings as guest host were higher than Johnny's ratings, so it was easy to convince NBC that it was time to part ways with Johnny.
Tublecane? It's that a NewsRadio reference?
Well, NBC was mainly trying to prevent the mistakes they made in 1992 with Carson/Leno/Letterman by giving Conan a guaranteed spot on the Tonight Show. Jay's contract was up in 2009, and so the network wanted to do a smooth transition. Unfortunately, it backfired.
Tim, with all due respect, I never heard that story. I think (remembering the time) that Carson made noises of retiring for at least 2 years prior to doing so. Why would NBC willingly ease out a man who was universally known as "The King of Late Night"?
Carson owned that time slot. In fact when he had Ted Koppel as a guest towards the end, Ted said that he was ambivalent towards hois retiring but as a competitor, he was glad he was retiring since Night Line was being cleaned by the Tonight Show.
It took awhile for Leno to bring the Tonight Show back to #1. But I don't think it ever regained the total dominance that it had under Johnny Carson.
You may have had access to some NBC inside information but from everything I heard NBC would have still had Johnny today if they could; but once Johnny decided to retire at 30 years (starting I think in Oct 1962) that was that. I did hear that he wanted Letterman as his replacement and NBC wanted Leno – hewnce the bitterness betqween the 2 even today – but that is all I heard.
The information wasn't that inside:
"Rumors have been circulating that NBC would like Johnny Carson to take his golf swing out to the links after his contract expires next September and let Jay Leno permanently replace him on The Tonight Show"
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,313442,00.html
I believe you're wrong on Leno's contract expiring in 2009. I believe that one wasn't signed until AFTER NBC offered Conan the Tonight Show.
It would seem, if that is true, that the same impetus was driving Conan to the Tonight Show – attracting a younger audience. In both cases it would seem the experts were "too clever by half".
Audience is audience, I would think but the same problem affected Cadillac in the 1990s – their demographic was people in their 60s and up. Which they couldn't keep indefinitely, of course. Now they are getting younger buyers with new and (radical for them) offerings.
Perhaps that was the thinking that drove the NBC "programming gurus".
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