‘Invention of Lying’: Anti-Christian
by S.T. KarnickAfter a couple of weeks of unsubstantiated rumors, it has been confirmed that the forthcoming film The Invention of Lying is indeed intended to satirize religion and religious believers.
New York Post critic Kyle Smith has seen the film and describes it as “a full-on attack on religion in general and Christianity in particular. It might be the most blatantly, one-sidedly atheist movie ever released by a major studio, in this case Warner Bros.”
Although the commercials and theatrical trailers have presented the film as a cute comedy and made no allusion at all to any religious angle, much less a concerted case for atheism, Smith reports that the basis of the film is its attack on religion:
Gervais delights in what a faith-based society would call blasphemy, setting up an imaginary world in which no one ever lies. Except his character, who spreads what Gervais obviously sees as the biggest lie of all: Belief in God.
Smith’s description of the film makes it clear that the protagonist’s behavior represents a simpleminded atheist’s idea of the meaning of religion:
There is a “Man in the Sky,” he says, who is looking down at all of us and is responsible for everything that happens. Yes, he explains to one woman, he gave your mom cancer — but he’s also responsible for curing her. The people aren’t happy that “The Man in the Sky” is behind all human suffering. “F— The Man in the Sky!” cries one citizen, and the crowd begins to get angry. A magazine cover exclaims, “Man in the Sky Kills 40,000 in Tsunami!” But Gervais’s character insists that whatever damage the Man in the Sky causes, he eventually makes up for it all in the end by providing a beautiful mansion for everyone after they die, at least for those who don’t commit three or more immoral acts, and by making it so that everyone can reunite with their loved ones in the next life.
Smith concludes by stating that the film is mean-spirited overall and that audiences are unlikely to be pleased by Gervais’s attack on their basic beliefs while critics will enjoy this latest attempt to epater la bourgeousie:
Gervais is an atheist, which is fine, but his mean-spiritedness (even before the atheism theme enters the movie, it’s sour and misanthropic) and the film’s reduction of all religion to an episode of crowd hysteria are not going to be warmly received. Except maybe by critics.
In a comment on Smith’s article, a reader quotes from Gervais’s long, poorly written, and unapologetic but highly defensive and spectacularly clichéd response to the building controversy on the film, published on the actor’s blog. Here’s Gervais’s post, with some responses of my own (in brackets):
A couple more web sites have picked up on a few Christians (not all – most Christians have a sense of humour) saying that The Invention of Lying is blasphemous.
Here are my seven deadly sins of jumping to conclusions:
1. No one has seen the film. [False--SK]
2. Even if the film suggests there is no God, it is a fictional world. [a truly pathetic evasion.] One of my favourite films is ‘It’s a wonderful life’ and at no time am I offended by the suggestion in this wonderful work of fiction that there is a God. [Nice but irrelevant.]
3. If the film was not set in a fictional world and suggested there is no God then that’s fine too, as it is anyone’s right not to believe in God. [and it's other people's right to criticize a filmmaker for what he chooses to put in his movies.]
4. By suggesting there is no God you are not singling out Christianity. [but you certainly are including Christianity, so Christians have a right to answer back.]
5. Not believing in God cannot be blasphemous. Blasphemy is acknowledging a God to insult or offend etc. [Gervais's atheism is not the complaint: characterizing God as Gervais allegedly does in the film is what people are concerned about, and it is definitely a case of blasphemy if the film is at all as described.]
6. Even if it was blasphemous, which it isn’t [false], then that’s OK too due to a little god I like called “freedom of speech.” [freedom of speech is not at issue. Blasphemy and contempt for other people's beliefs are the topic of discussion.] That said, I am not trying to offend anyone [but offending them all the same, while hiding behind a fig leaf of good intentions.]. That would be a waste of such a privilege.
7. I am an atheist, but this is not atheist propaganda [Well, if it looks like atheist propaganda, and it walks like atheist propaganda, and it quacks like atheist propaganda...]. When creating an imaginary world you have to make certain decisions. We decided also that there would be no surrealist art, no racism, no flattery, no fiction, no metaphor, and no supernatural. However, we decided that apart from that one “lying gene”, humans evolved with everything else as we have it today. Joy, hope, ambition, ruthlessness, greed, lust, anger, jealousy, sadness, and grief. It’s just a film [another pathetic evasion]. If any of the themes in it offend you or bore you, or just don’t make sense to you, you should put everything right when you make a film [How revoltingly arrogant and elitist. As if the only way to answer a person were to go back in time, pursue the same career they have taken up, and answer them in the same form. This is a truly astonishing insult to his potential audience.].
I really hope everyone enjoys the film [Even though he lives in the relatively unchurched UK, it's quite amazing that he can be so grotesquely ignorant as to have imagined that the great majority of his potential American audience would not find this movie idea offensive.].’ and keeps an open mind [regarding whether they like blasphemy? That is even more arrogant than the last sentence of his deadly sin number seven.]. I believe in peace on Earth, and good will to all men. [Not all harmful things are done with ill will. Gross negligence can be just as destructive, and merits an equal response.] I do as I would be done by, and believe that forgiveness is one of the greatest virtues [but of course he claims to have nothing in his film that requires forgiving.]. I just don’t believe I will be rewarded for it in heaven [It seems likely he's right about that much.]. That’s all.
It will be interesting to see whether audiences take to the film as more people find out what The Invention of Lying is all about. Telling your audience that their most profound beliefs are stupid and wrong seems a fine plan for eliciting positive reviews from elitist movie critics but a very bad way to lure people into movie theaters.
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925 Comments
Hmm… and I was going to see that movie… however, I might just wait and see how the critics and the masses rate it… if the critics give it "two thumbs up" then I will refrain from watching… that really should be my measure anyway… I am a Christian and it bugs me when people are meanspirited about ANY satire of anything… It bugged me when Colbert became mean spirited (I thought he was funny before) during the election… and I do have a sense of humor and I know there are flaws in the "organized" parts of the faith and I can laugh right along with… but again, it depends on if it is mean-spirited.
A film that does this with the progressive religion would offend him to the point of apoplexy, I suspect. Anybody want to volunteer? I'd pay $10.50 to see that.
looked good, had no idea about the agenda, and now i will definitely NOT go see it….glad i read this article
And by the way I'm agnostic but I am sick to death of people banging on Christianity. They seem to universally do it because they know they need to knock Christ out to get Marx in. That's bad for everybody and it makes me a defender of Christianity out of pure self-interest.
thanks for the information, i saw clips from it but really couldn't figure out what it was about.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Melissa L. Sutton and Big Hollywood. Big Hollywood said: ‘Invention of Lying’: Anti-Christian http://bit.ly/KBNlp [...]
I wasn't really sure what the plot of this was until reading the article, but now I'm interested in seeing the movie. Thanks for giving me some more info about it, and hopefully you'll grow a sense of humor someday.
take off Gervais
I'm a little confused – you're saying that Gervais has grossly misunderstood God, and you find that offensive? If his representation is that far off, then you have nothing to be offended about, and it will be apparent to everyone that Gervais is a moron. And if he's not so far off the mark, shouldn't you be worrying more about what's wrong with your understanding of God that Gervais appears so close to the truth?
Disclosure: I'm an atheist, but not a fan of Gervais.
James Okeefe needs to make a movie!!! A movie about a progressive society where a Christian is thrown in. If he did, I'd put in a few duckets for that! I mean investment duckets. Did you all go see American Carol!? That was our goofy all film, it was great… I wished it was more successful at the box office. At least buy it on DVD.
Who cares if it makes fun of religion? I am guessing it is making fun of blind faith which should be ridiculed. Take a deep breath, a true Conservative wouldn't give a shit.
A true social conservative should give a shit.
Anti-Christian bias is coming at us non-stop.
I'd like to invite Mr. Gervais to my church. I hope he enjoys it and keeps an open mind.
Well he's discussed religion with the Archbishop of Canterbury, and considered him a very intelligent and decent person (who happens to be wrong on an important issue, in his opinion). I imagine that takes a reasonable amount of open-mindedness. I'd also guess that Rowan Williams knows more about religion than anyone at your church, for what that's worth.
As a right-wing, very Conservative Atheist, all I can say and support is that the 1st Amendment protects both sides of this debate. Our Founding Fathers were Genius in there design of the Constitution.
We loved "American Carol." The whole family saw it and we still quote from the movie.
"That was my car…" Robert Davi was hilarious! Actually the whole film was really funny.
Ditto on everything you said.
Religious folks (unless of course, they are on jihad or something) do not creep me out at all, but there are a lot religious folks who think people like us are the anti-christ.
You sound like I used to. You've got a great attitude.
By the way, I'm now a Christian.
You and me both. I'm going out to the pond and squash some tadpoles barefoot. Now THAT'S a good time.
Meh- if his depiction of religion is as simple-minded as appears from the synopsis and quotes above then he's preaching to the ignorant. At the same time, the map is not the territory- if your sense of spirituality is offended, move along and let this guy make a fool out of himself because he's going after a rather childishly caricatured strawman. If you are offended because you feel your religion is under attack… well then I'd say you might be the one who has some soul-searching to do.
"it will be apparent to everyone that Gervais is a moron"
What a great world that would be and one in which everyone would know better than to believe things that are absurd ("You're the only girl in the world I've ever loved.") But that's not the world we live in. There's an old saying (misattributed to G K Chesterton): "The first effect of not believing in God is to believe in anything." And it's true.
I've never met a Christian who thinks atheists are anti-christs. And I know a LOT of Christians.
If you are a Christian why would you be surprised that there are atheists in the world? The New Testament explains that people will reject God and they occassionally become "mean-spirited " about it.
"I'd like to invite Mr. Gervais to my church. I hope he enjoys it and keeps an open mind. " Why? Do you think that he's a seeking the truth or justification for his rejection of God? I heard him on the Archbishop of Canterberry's Christmas program. He certainly did have questions but they really weren't very clever or original. Whether he accepts answers is not our problem.
If you mean turn the other cheek, you're right. If you mean "shut-up and stop talking about God or correct those who ignorantly mock God (freedom of speech)," then no, you're wrong. IMHO.
Just imagine – if he did the same type of film regarding Islamist religion – he'd be marked for death!
Dittos
Strangely I find the opposite – it's people who believe in God (though not necessarily the doctrinally pure God of the Christianity of your choice) who tend to believe in all manner of things, from ghosts to homeopathy to the law of averages. There are plenty of credulous agnostics as well (people who are 'in touch with their spirituality' but not members of an organized religion). Not too many atheists, in my experience, fall for such things. I'm being a little unfair, of course, as part of the 'qualification' for being an atheist is not being credulous.
I'm thankful for this post. It's ridiculous that freedom of speech is even mentioned. Of course he has the right to make whatever movie he wants. Atheists have been trotting out their God-of-the-Gaps argument for years, I'm not going to spend 10 bucks so I can be slapped in the face with it.
Never mind Islam, how about SOMEONE making a film trashing Scientology already (or even indirectly, ala Bowfinger, which was a decade ago)? You can't tell me they don't have it coming…
As a long time atheist I am as offended as any Christian at yet another assault on religion. Mr. Gervais will not be receiving any tribute from me.
Never learn religion from an atheist.
And hopefully you'll grow a brain someday.
For what its worth (having not seen the movie and basing my comments solely on the post) "the man in the sky" would seem to be singular, and therefore any construed attack against Christians is equally an attack on Jews and Muslims. Maybe the Islamists WILL go after him (although I hope not; at least for the time being we still believe in the first amendment in this country).
The key point is, barring criminal activity, the man is free to "publish" whatever kind of movie he wants to, and I am free to refrain from giving him money for it.
Oh who cares? It's a film that imagines a world where lying doesn't exist. It's not like it has any bearing on the real world whatsoever. If Mel Gibson and C.S. Lewis can make their Christian propaganda artworks (neither of which I have a problem with by the way), I don't see why Ricky Gervais or anyone else can't make their "atheist propaganda" artworks. In fact, I heard an interview on the BBC yesterday with Gervais and he was far from the mean-spirited Bill Maher-type he has been portrayed as in this thread, even when he was addressing this very subject.
Do you have a case of "fatwah envy"? So far as I can see – and even Mr. Karnick agrees above – the movie applies to all religions.
Who said that they couldn't?
So disappointed!! This movie was being filmed all around us in Lowell, MA, where I was working at the time, and I couldn't wait for it to be released. I like to see movies for inspiration and entertainment though, not to be made angry or depressed.
You're completely misinterpreting the statement. While I can't speak for homeopathy and things of that sort, it should come as no surprise that many believing Christians or other religious people would believe in ghosts or other things of that sort as well. Why? Because believing in God is inherently of a spiritual nature, which usually implies belief in the existence of other spiritual beings (the devil, for instance). The "anything" nolo is referring to is these secularized religions which try to transfer people's faith from spiritual to earthly matters, like the usual "ologies" and "isms." And you'd better believe that atheists are just as gullible as the rest of us. For example, Robert Owen, the 19th-century utopian socialist (coincidence?) was a lifelong opponent of organized religion, particularly Christianity, once declaring that he would regard the crowning achievement of his life to be the eradication of religion. Yet by the end of his life, he was a follower of that vague quasi-religion called spirituality. He defended it on the grounds that it was a rational system, but in the end, he turned out to be as credulous, to use your term, as anyone else.
I don't mind if a filmmaker questions Christianity as long as it's not done in a malicious way. It's human nature to question. What we don't have to do is insult people with differing beliefs and from the reviews I've read of this film, I'd guess Gervais is saying that those who do believe in God are buying into the "big lie." Saying that people who believe in God are misguided, credulous– whatever, doesn't seem to be showing much respect for different points of view and that's why I have no interest in seeing his film.
I'm agnostic too, but the all out war against Christianity is so obvious and so hateful, that I too am a defender of Christianity.
Ha, ha. Pretty funny. An atheist discussing religion with an apostate. Intelligent and decent he may be, but not exactly a strong defense of your rhetoric.
It's interesting to note, too, that some of the staunchest Christians were raised in communist East Germany and Russia. For people living that life, the State is most definitely not enough.
Also, you are right about getting Christ out and Marx in. The Declaration of Independance states our rights are given to us by our Creator. I am not really sure if there is a Creator, but I would much rather have my rights given to me by a Creator then by our government, an entity that can then decide to take our rights away.
By definition, isn't all faith blind (and therefore "should be ridiculed"), or are you suggesting that some beliefs are worthy of ridicule, while others are not? If the latter, can I assume that those things that are above ridicule are things that you believe?
What does any of this have to do with that "true conservatives" would, or would not, give a shit about? It isn't a poltical issue.
Why would belief in God predispose someone to believe in random spirits? God, Satan, angels (which I almost mentioned, but deliberately avoided) etc. are documented 'facts'. The 'fact' that a cherub exists makes it precisely no more likely that a spirit not mentioned in the Bible does.
Congratulations, though, on finding a credulous atheist. Putting aside that an atheist who believes in spirituality isn't an atheist, yes there are many credulous atheists. They'll fall for frauds as will anyone else – I'd guess there has never been a human who hasn't fallen for something they would have been wiser to avoid. But, as I said before, in my experience atheists are less likely to fall for such things because they tend to be critical of things that seem unlikely.
On what grounds do you call him an apostate? The fact that you don't agree with his interpretation of the Bible? Or did he renounce Christianity and I just missed the news?
Anti-christs are people who try to persuade believers of a religion against those beliefs, usually for personal gain or just out of a desire to see people flounder. Atheists are just people who choose not to believe in God for reasons of their own, and, for the most part, don't care at all if others want to believe in God. There's a huge difference between the two, and most "religious folk" know it, honest. =)
While I'm mildly offended at what most "athiests" say about Christianity (since a lot of athiests I meet are more anti-God than simply not believing in a religion at all), I'm not surprised. I guess I'm just not at a point of caring anymore.
This is probably bad since I am a Christian, however this is how I feel. Honestly, I don't care one way or another if you accept Christ. I don't care about your soul, or where you're going when you die. I know where I'm going and honestly, that's good enough for me. If you're nice to me, then I'm nice to you. But if you go out of your way to rip into God or Christ, then I don't care what happens to you. Just do yourself a favor and make 110% sure that there's no God to answer to when you die, because eternity's an awfully long time to be wrong for.
I am offended, but not for myself. I'm offended for my Father in Heaven, who (whom? whatever) I believe is probably made very sad by this movie and others like it. It doesn't mean I'm going to rail against Gervais or anything like that, but it does mean I won't be seeing this movie, and I'll continue to tell people what I believe when the subject comes up.
Given the number of Christians who think that other Christians (e.g. the Pope, the President) are the anti-christ, I'm surprised at your experience. I'm happy you live among such well-adjusted Christians though.
Why is it atheisim is worn like a badge of honori don't find much that is happy about other then you don't think anything exists outside of what you think exists. Plus to me athiests are just depressing because they have no idea what happen's after we die so it's kinda depressing to me. Plus i don't know i guess refusing to think something doesn't exist cause you can't see it is rather closed minded
I don't see what good that would do. For the most part, Scientologists are just people who believe in a religion. While I think the tenets of the religion are a little strange, coming from my Christian beliefs, I wouldn't wish persecution or ridicule on anybody because of their spiritual beliefs. They're just people searching for the truth, just like the rest of us. Those who break the law, as it seems some of the leaders may be doing, should absolutely be prosecuted for it, just like those in any religion who break the law, but that's as far as it should go. Films trashing Scientology are just as bad as films trashing Christianity and Islam.
Regarding your scatological comments: considering the review of this film, it looks like Gervais, is obviously not a "true Conservative".
I'm not sure I want to "take a deep breath" anywhere near it.
Regarding your scatological comments: considering the review of this film, it looks like Gervais is obviously not a "true Conservative".
I'm not sure I want to "take a deep breath" anywhere near it.
Actually the original assertion is that atheists are more likely to, so if you'll agree that they're just as likely, I'm happy to settle for that.
What a brave little man the extra is… Be really brave and do a movie criticizing Allah, chump.
in my experience atheists are less likely to fall for such things because they tend to be critical of things that seem unlikely.
In my experience, atheists are more likely to to follow their own pre-disposed beliefs than listen to facts. Most of the atheists I've met are that way become of some hurt in their past or chip on their shoulder. The idea that atheists are more "critical of things" is a joke.
Smell?
I don't think atheists are the anti-christ…
It does seem a bit disingenuous for Gervais to write a screenplay that assumes religion is based entirely on lies, and then say it's an imaginary world so don't take it seriously. It's an imaginary world which is defined by the absence of lies, and if the absence of religion is a result of the absence of lies, then the implication is inescapable.
Personally, I'm convinced that the claims of christianity are untrue – BUT I still see a massive hole in Gervais' logic. By and large, religion is NOT created out of whole cloth by liars (some later cults may be, but they're the exception that proves the rule). Rather, religions start out as honest attempts to understand the world. Their claims may be superceded as we learn more, but the point is, they stem more from honest misunderstanding than from dishonesty. The absence of lies would not prevent religion – Gervais' fictional world ought to include religion within it, at least as an historical thing that people used to believe.
700 billion faith based (christian movies) and you can't even stand to see a SINGLE atheist movie released?
What are you gonna do Christians? you have many options from your religion's storied history you could:
a) Incinerate Ricky Gervais alive
b) Burn all of his family/friends as to root out ALL of the nonbelievers
c) Murder in cold blood the first born son of everyone in his town.
Don't give that crap about having the wrong "interpretation" or "Translation". Just go by the actual text i read in school. Yes we studied the bible at my Private school (same one George W. Bush went to)
As another Conservative Atheist I'm all for every religion around the world getting GRILLED. Those with rock-solid faith should welcome it to because if you truly have FAITH then no amount of needling can touch you while those with questionable faith will be weeded out of your church. Why is BLIND Faith such a noble quality anyway? have you ever actually THOUGHT about the precepts you hold so dear, Mr. AVG american CHRISTIAN. How anyone would want to associate with such a revoltingly repugnant group who've perpetrated such hideous acts on humanity is beyond me…
Bottomline: Either you believe in a world where magical shit happens all of the time or the world runs accordingly to the laws of physics and Science in general. Do you believe in God because Someone told you to? or somebody from authority SCARED you into believing? or is just a tradition you follow? Better explanation: Religion is a VIRUS of the human computer (brain) and very difficult to extricate. For those of you more enlightened, american, conservative-atheists: UNITE. I think we should call our party the "Know-Somethings"
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a "true conservative". What you're describing seems more like the classical liberal; that is, the ability to recognize the validity of ideas other than your own. That's never really been a hallmark of conservatism.
Wow, any way to play the victim, apparently.
Your 7 "sins" are off base.
Question one – what do you mean by "characterizing God" and how can that act be offensive? If you mean that his saying that God is imaginary is offensive, then you need a thicker skin.
Question 2 – how is this really singling out Christians? Your 4th 'sin' says Christians have a right to object because of the God angle, but not once is it put out exactly how Christians in particular are demonized? Oh, that's right – they're not. Kyle Smith is looking to be a victim with his statement that the film is "a full-on attack on … Christianity in particular" – that is a lie.
Question 3 – how is this propaganda? Its entertainment, pure and simple. Was The Golden Compass propaganda? Was the Passion of the Christ propaganda? How about Kundun or Seven Years in Tibet? Sometimes a spade is a spade, and this film is just entertainment.
Seriously, if you don't like it don't watch it. It sounds like you haven't seen the film, so you really aren't in any position of authority to comment on its contents. Secondly – NO ONE IS CONSTANTLY BASHING CHRISTIANITY PEOPLE!! Cite me the list of ANYTHING out there with a solid anti-Christian theme and I will concede, but honestly, there isn't any campaign to oppress Christian ideology, and there likely never will be. Just because people who aren't Christian have found their voice doesn't mean that there's an attack on the religion – some of us are just fed up with having a constant presence of Christianity-based crap around us all the time. We ALL deserve a voice, which is the cornerstone of Democracy. Perhaps the Christian community should practice tolerance on this one, and turn the other cheek (especially the one with a tongue in it). Its just a movie – go get bent on something more worth your time, like fighting for the rights of others and feeding the world. THOSE are causes to get behind!
For those of us ancient ones who remember Oh God! With George Burns, John Denver and Terri Garr– that was truly a delightful film Back in the days when Hollywood did not need to dis the Judeo Christian tradtion. What we need is more Oh God's and less of this type of nihilistic insults. I still love the scene where John Denver and Terri Garr are talking and She asks him something like, so you think you talked to God? And Denver responds, somewhat frenetically, Well he says he's God. I suggest that the best revenge is for everyone to rent Oh God! And the sequel and stay home with microwave popcorn (which is the best.)
By being a Christian didn't you give up your right to a brain?
A liberal (politically) atheist sat down and had a nice chat with a liberal druid, oops I mean Christian.. and this proves what exactly? On what grounds do you conclude he knows more than anyone else at PerfectTommy's church about Christianity? because he agrees with YOUR interpretation of the Bible?
A liberal (politically) atheist sat down and had a nice chat with a liberal druid, oops I mean Christian.. and this proves what exactly? On what grounds do you conclude that Rowan Williams knows more than anyone else at PerfectTommy's church about Christianity? because he agrees with YOUR interpretation of the Bible?
Yeah maybe O'Keefe can put on some blackface (because he's so good at imagining how minorities dress), educate us on how nobody really needs especially the poor, need healthcare.
Wow, you Christians aren't even tolerant of each other, and you wonder why your faith is dying?
Wow, DJ. Did some Christian bully used to beat you up and take your lunch money? Quite a lot of pent up anger there, it seems.
There were so many rhetorical questions in your post it's really hard to choose, but if I could pick just one, I believe in God because there's no way to work backwards in time to the point of the appearance of matter from non-matter. The best "science" can do is postulate the Big Bang, which STARTS WITH a little ball of cosmic crap floating around. Until they can explain where the crap came from, I'll continue to believe in God.
Faith is really a pretty simple construct: the existence of design and order in every aspect of creation demands that the scientific method objectively applied would start out with the God hypothesis. Atheism is the opposite of science.
Evangelical Christians in this country are totally having a case of fatwah envy, you know if they could they'd round up all the non-believers.
"Cite me the list of ANYTHING out there with a solid anti-Christian theme and I will concede…"
Well, the Federal Ninth Circuit Court comes to mind, but that's just off the top of my head.
Incinerate Ricky Gervais alive, burn all of his family/friends as to root out ALL of the nonbelievers, murder in cold blood the first born son of everyone in his town.
Yeesh. People get upset over this and start complaining about it on the internet. Slow down and take a deeep breath
How anyone would want to associate with such a revoltingly repugnant group who've perpetrated such hideous acts on humanity is beyond me…
Well if you want to play that card, considering the wanton slaughter of believers by atheists in the last century (USSR, Romania & Cambodia to name a few) How anyone would want to associate with such a revoltingly repugnant group who've perpetrated such hideous acts on humanity is beyond me…
Bottomline: Either you believe in a world where magical shit happens all of the time or the world runs accordingly to the laws of physics and Science in general.
Depends on what world you believe in. I believe in the God who according to the scriptures made the world according to weight & measure (sorry, the verse for that escapes me at the moment), who also said "Speak to the Earth, and it shall teach thee." (Job). The same God that the founder of modern chemistry, Robert Boyle once described as "Not making the world the way He did unless He wanted us to understand it."
Dude, Atlas Shrugged was a marginally entertaining novel that had some good points in it but your lavish, fanatical devotion to Ayn Rand is too dogmatic for me.
Tempist in a teapot or Obama in a Rio. Relax people, blasphemy is in the eye of the beholder, I am more offended by Vegietales, or All Good Dogs Go To Heaven.
My only objection to the movie is the "(dis)honesty in advertising" element.
C'mon, Mr. Gervais. If you're a real man… if you're truly convicted about your atheist convictions (?), then grow some cajones and broadcast it to the world!
Tell us what your movie is about. Shout it from your own secular mountaintop.
Instead, you take the cowardly way out. You lie, and pretend, and deceive… and, because of all this dishonesty… you defraud your audience out of their money.
Once they've paid for the ticket, there's no un-doing it. Once they've plunked down the $10, it's too late; they have irreversibly supported their enemy.
Of course, you don't care. You just want their money. And, you'll laugh about how you duped 'em.
You're a gutless gelding.
Eagerly awaiting the New Hollywood!
As a missionary kid and former christian I can tell you for sure the infighting among these people is legendary. I'll always remember my parents telling me my devout catholic cousins weren't "real" christians…like them. I left the religion mostly due to this kind of stuff and also because no one actually empoyed their frontal lobes when thinking about their deity. He's kind of masochistic, which I think some people sorta' dig, so they believe in that construct. Gervais is probably making fun of this and the fact that deities in general are any construct we want to invent. Religious people do NOT have a sense of humor if they feel their beliefs are being attacked and I doubt they will go see the movie. But who really cares? I doubt the movie was actually made for them. There are a monstrous growing number of ex-name-your-religion types like myself out there who WIll go see it.
I concur.
I concur.
I agree with jic. He is able to make whatever film on whatever subject he wishes. The problem begins when he tries to pass it off as one thing (a piece-of-fluff comedy) when it is another thing entirely (an attack on religion disguised as a comedic piece-of-fluff). Nowhere in the trailer does it ever hint at it being the "anti-theist propaganda" it is.
I highly recommend all of Gervais' projects: The Office (UK and US), Extras, the podcasts, etc. He is quite brilliant. He is an unabashed atheist and can be quite arrogant in expressing his view. However, almost everything he does – while it may seem mean-spirited – is light-hearted and tongue in cheek (see Emmy award shoes from the past couple of years).
In short, let's not over react here.
Please tell me more St. Nico. I'm an Evangelical Christian who owns guns and studies Krav Maga and I'd love to be in one of them round-em-up posses you're talking about. I guess I'm just hanging around with the wrong crowd. Wait. I hang around with Evangelical Christians (and agnostics, and atheists, and Jews, and Hindus, etc.), and I've yet to hear a peep about this fatwah envy you've uncovered. I'm sure you're right. Just post their phone number or e-mail here. I want to join. I want to join.
Potential Member of Fatwah Enviers Annon.
[...] to convince me that I am too dumb for words. So I thought I'd pass along this little heads up : ) Article here. __________________ Shalom, jessi PCA Steelers fan exiled to Virginia *my bliggity, bloggity blog* [...]
"I don't see why Ricky Gervais or anyone else can't make their "atheist propaganda" artworks"
You might as well post that this thread is about Ricky Gervais not being able to go gluten free. No one's brought it up, bro. Oh, except you.
Seriously? If you believe in God, and believe he is good, but also acknowledge there's a lot of crap in the world today, doesn't that kind of run towards acknowledgement of evil spirits?
I don't want to get hung up on the precise definition of atheism, though I will argue that if you had asked Owen (or others of his ilk) about spirituality, they would have denied any anything like an actual belief in God. He himself rejected any talk of it on his deathbed. And while I used that as an example, because it was the first thing to come to mind, my main point was that atheists, contrary to your argument, are just as likely to put their faith in something as non-atheists, the difference being that their faith is in the world, while that of Christians is in God. Whether the individual case is something naturalistic like evolution or something political like numerology or socialism, it's the same old story in the end: people still contemplate perfection and redemption of mankind, only now they trust in the progressive evolution of the human race rather than its salvation through Christ (or another religious figure).
I know it's hard to do, but Christ was quite clear: love your enemies. That has to mean you care about their eternity, no?
But you're allowed to have sex with whomever and whatever you want! According to the Left, that's all the freedom you need.
(/sarcasm)
i felt the same way about the Passion of Christ…was i up in arms? no. Did i whine and moan? no?
Sorry Christian..everyone has a right to think and feel as they do. We ALL do not need the help of your invisible lord to make it through our daily lives. I dont push my beliefs on you so i would like some reciprocation.
But you're allowed to have sex with whomever (18 and up) you want! According to the Left, that's all the freedom you need.
(/sarcasm)
"Religious people do NOT have a sense of humor if they feel their beliefs are being attacked and I doubt they will go see the movie."
This surprises you…how? If you had something you strongly believed in, and centered your life around to some degree, and then someone came out and ridiculed it, something tells me you might not join in the laughter, either. Your inability to understand even this one point, let alone your other comments, leads me to suspect your entire life story is made up just so you can do a mock "expose" on what kind of people we Christians truly are.
"where magical sh*t happens"
This is one of the best strawman attacks I've ever seen. Good show.
By the way, the Bible is against magic, especially magical sh*t.
Rowan Williams…that's the guy who said some form of Sharia law should be introduced in Britain, right?
ACLU
Well, to give a possibility, I'm not sure we can blame the marketing on Gervias. He might have been willing to man up on his atheism, but the film makers almost never have a say in how a film is packaged and sold.
So any negative reaction is an over-reaction? Good to know.
The only over reactions I've seen are by folks like DJ White.
I was referring to those christians who said they had a sense of humor when it came to their faith. Don't feel special..no one has a sense of humor when it comes to what they believe in. And that's why I said I doubt the movie was made for them. And they can lose all the outrage.
Oh, but wait, christians LOVE to be outraged. It a badge of HONOR to be picked on by the unrepentant! As far as "exposing you for what you really are"…well, I think on this board you've all a done a pretty darn good job. You are really your best "advertising".
I think the "Stars" are working on getting that age limit reduced.
Its problematical at the moment but its early yet.
lighten up
"The first effect of not believing in God is to believe in anything." And it's true. Yes it is. Within in every living human being is something that drives him/her toward "faith" it's the X factor in the human…….That may play out in a BELIEF in God, Nothing, Monkeys, Cattle, Stones, Clouds, or the Sun, but it's there….. so if one says they are an atheist, then they are putting their faith in nothing, but they are still seeking a belief system.
That is the essence of mankind. Could it be it is because he is a spiritual creature after all??
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