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	<title>Comments on: In Defense of Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber</title>
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	<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sright/2009/01/16/music-of-the-knight-in-defense-of-sir-andrew-lloyd-weber/</link>
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		<title>By: Hollywood Gossip &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Hollywood Hot Gossip</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sright/2009/01/16/music-of-the-knight-in-defense-of-sir-andrew-lloyd-weber/comment-page-1/#comment-511890</link>
		<dc:creator>Hollywood Gossip &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Hollywood Hot Gossip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 15:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=21089#comment-511890</guid>
		<description>[...] already risked losing any credibility I might have in the theatre community by defending Andrew Lloyd Webber and his conservative politics, but I have to go back to that well once again because Webber has written an op-ed piece for [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] already risked losing any credibility I might have in the theatre community by defending Andrew Lloyd Webber and his conservative politics, but I have to go back to that well once again because Webber has written an op-ed piece for [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stage Right</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sright/2009/01/16/music-of-the-knight-in-defense-of-sir-andrew-lloyd-weber/comment-page-1/#comment-111686</link>
		<dc:creator>Stage Right</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=21089#comment-111686</guid>
		<description>James, really great points in your comments and I really appreciate quoting Joe Josephson!  I understand they HAVE re-written the George Bush line in Ave. Q, but they are still going for the Jon Stewart applause... I heard it&#039;s going to be  &quot;Prop 8 is for now.&quot;  I agree that R &amp; H has been the most influential on the art form...  but, as I said in my post:  &quot;I think it’s instructive to look at a person’s contribution not only in artistic achievement, but also in some pretty important aspects like:  Number of tickets sold, number of actors and crew employed, number of children exposed to live theatre for the first time…  You know, the tangible, objective criteria we in the business of SELLING theatre as a product look to. By those measures, ALW is the greatest success our business has ever seen.&quot;  If you look beyond the art form you might concede ALW has influenced more aspects of the business than even R &amp; H.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, really great points in your comments and I really appreciate quoting Joe Josephson!  I understand they HAVE re-written the George Bush line in Ave. Q, but they are still going for the Jon Stewart applause&#8230; I heard it&#8217;s going to be  &#8220;Prop 8 is for now.&#8221;  I agree that R &amp; H has been the most influential on the art form&#8230;  but, as I said in my post:  &#8220;I think it’s instructive to look at a person’s contribution not only in artistic achievement, but also in some pretty important aspects like:  Number of tickets sold, number of actors and crew employed, number of children exposed to live theatre for the first time…  You know, the tangible, objective criteria we in the business of SELLING theatre as a product look to. By those measures, ALW is the greatest success our business has ever seen.&#8221;  If you look beyond the art form you might concede ALW has influenced more aspects of the business than even R &amp; H.</p>
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		<title>By: James Cloninger</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sright/2009/01/16/music-of-the-knight-in-defense-of-sir-andrew-lloyd-weber/comment-page-1/#comment-97866</link>
		<dc:creator>James Cloninger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=21089#comment-97866</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I have often wondered - who has been the more influential in plays - Andrew Lloyd Webber or Rogers &amp; Hammerstein? Probably like comparing Babe Ruth to Hank Aaron - 2 different eras.&lt;/i&gt;

R&amp;H hands down, for it was through &quot;Oklahoma&quot; that transformed the musical from a series of disparate songs strung together with a paper-thin plot, to a full integration of story, music, and dance.

ALW and Sondheim both owe what they are to them (Literally so with Sondheim, for it was Oscar Hammerstein who was his first instructor on the art of writing for the theatre).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I have often wondered &#8211; who has been the more influential in plays &#8211; Andrew Lloyd Webber or Rogers &amp; Hammerstein? Probably like comparing Babe Ruth to Hank Aaron &#8211; 2 different eras.</i></p>
<p>R&amp;H hands down, for it was through &#8220;Oklahoma&#8221; that transformed the musical from a series of disparate songs strung together with a paper-thin plot, to a full integration of story, music, and dance.</p>
<p>ALW and Sondheim both owe what they are to them (Literally so with Sondheim, for it was Oscar Hammerstein who was his first instructor on the art of writing for the theatre).</p>
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		<title>By: James Cloninger</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sright/2009/01/16/music-of-the-knight-in-defense-of-sir-andrew-lloyd-weber/comment-page-1/#comment-97826</link>
		<dc:creator>James Cloninger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=21089#comment-97826</guid>
		<description>Ryan:
&lt;i&gt;But I must say that I’m very familiar with the Sondheim/ALW divide, I see it in much the same terms and I’m a Sondheim person for strictly artistic reasons. There’s just more meat to Sondheim while Llyod Weber can be a little, well, bubblegum, though not all the time. &lt;/i&gt;

&quot;There&#039;s not a tune you can hum,
There&#039;s not a tune to go bum-bum-bum-da-bum.
You need a tune to go bum-bum-bum-da-bum,
Give me a melody!

Why can&#039;t you throw them a crumb?
What&#039;s wrong with letting them tap their toes a bit?
I&#039;ll let you know when Stravinsky has a hit.
Give me some melody!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan:<br />
<i>But I must say that I’m very familiar with the Sondheim/ALW divide, I see it in much the same terms and I’m a Sondheim person for strictly artistic reasons. There’s just more meat to Sondheim while Llyod Weber can be a little, well, bubblegum, though not all the time. </i></p>
<p>&#8220;There&#8217;s not a tune you can hum,<br />
There&#8217;s not a tune to go bum-bum-bum-da-bum.<br />
You need a tune to go bum-bum-bum-da-bum,<br />
Give me a melody!</p>
<p>Why can&#8217;t you throw them a crumb?<br />
What&#8217;s wrong with letting them tap their toes a bit?<br />
I&#8217;ll let you know when Stravinsky has a hit.<br />
Give me some melody!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: James Cloninger</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sright/2009/01/16/music-of-the-knight-in-defense-of-sir-andrew-lloyd-weber/comment-page-1/#comment-97794</link>
		<dc:creator>James Cloninger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=21089#comment-97794</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I did enjoy Avenue Q until the “George Bush, is for now” line at the end. Hehe. Don’t even care for Bush the last couple years, but it sure seemed infantile.&lt;/i&gt;

The whole show was infantile.  They had a good concept (Seasame Street parody).  But, once again, the same tired tropes(Gay Republican in this instance) sort of ruin it.  As far as the &quot;George Bush&quot; line goes (Only for Now), well, that was put in obviously to get the &quot;Daily Show applause&quot; response, but now has made it entirely dated and stale.  My guess is that line will eventually be rewritten in order to get a chance to play better regionally.

You don&#039;t see &quot;Angels in America&quot; being revived much, do you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I did enjoy Avenue Q until the “George Bush, is for now” line at the end. Hehe. Don’t even care for Bush the last couple years, but it sure seemed infantile.</i></p>
<p>The whole show was infantile.  They had a good concept (Seasame Street parody).  But, once again, the same tired tropes(Gay Republican in this instance) sort of ruin it.  As far as the &#8220;George Bush&#8221; line goes (Only for Now), well, that was put in obviously to get the &#8220;Daily Show applause&#8221; response, but now has made it entirely dated and stale.  My guess is that line will eventually be rewritten in order to get a chance to play better regionally.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t see &#8220;Angels in America&#8221; being revived much, do you?</p>
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		<title>By: James Cloninger</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sright/2009/01/16/music-of-the-knight-in-defense-of-sir-andrew-lloyd-weber/comment-page-1/#comment-97790</link>
		<dc:creator>James Cloninger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=21089#comment-97790</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; I think Broadway could learn a thing or two about drawing audiences from modern spectacle shows like Cirque’s KA, which I got to see in Vegas over the Christmas break and which was absolutely breathtaking. The rotating stage and digital effects were mindblowing and has helped it do well financially. I can’t help but wonder if Disney’s Little Mermaid and Tarzan musicals would have done better if they had included more elements like that.&lt;/i&gt;

I think the problem is Broadway HAS learned a thing or two about it, see my previous post.  Because they are relying more on the spectacle or &quot;brand name&quot; recognision (Disney), or regurgitating old pop tunes and repackaging them as a &quot;musical&quot;, they have caused the theatre audiences to become accustomed to expecting this ALL the time. And since these technical shows are very expensive, have priced themselves into a corner.  

New composers and writers in the heyday used to have a much better chance of seeing their show make it on the great White Way.  It didn&#039;t have to take YEARS for a show to make back it&#039;s investment.  And, sadly, even off-broadway is now starting to become overpriced.  This is not good for anyone, not even ALW or Sondheim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> I think Broadway could learn a thing or two about drawing audiences from modern spectacle shows like Cirque’s KA, which I got to see in Vegas over the Christmas break and which was absolutely breathtaking. The rotating stage and digital effects were mindblowing and has helped it do well financially. I can’t help but wonder if Disney’s Little Mermaid and Tarzan musicals would have done better if they had included more elements like that.</i></p>
<p>I think the problem is Broadway HAS learned a thing or two about it, see my previous post.  Because they are relying more on the spectacle or &#8220;brand name&#8221; recognision (Disney), or regurgitating old pop tunes and repackaging them as a &#8220;musical&#8221;, they have caused the theatre audiences to become accustomed to expecting this ALL the time. And since these technical shows are very expensive, have priced themselves into a corner.  </p>
<p>New composers and writers in the heyday used to have a much better chance of seeing their show make it on the great White Way.  It didn&#8217;t have to take YEARS for a show to make back it&#8217;s investment.  And, sadly, even off-broadway is now starting to become overpriced.  This is not good for anyone, not even ALW or Sondheim.</p>
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		<title>By: James Cloninger</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sright/2009/01/16/music-of-the-knight-in-defense-of-sir-andrew-lloyd-weber/comment-page-1/#comment-97770</link>
		<dc:creator>James Cloninger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=21089#comment-97770</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;This article had me actually look up “Into the Woods” on Wikipedia. The plot synopsis made me realize something: “Into the Woods” reflects the time and politics it was written in, 1987, the end of the cold war. Unfortunately, by doing this, it dates its self. &lt;/i&gt;

But only if you see it in that prism.  It&#039;s also been compared to the AIDS epidemic, but again, that prism is one applied by critics.  Sondheim himself said that the overall message was working together to overcome a common menace.  Though, the second acts of Sondheim-Lapine shows are generally weaker than the first act.  

Do also take into account that it&#039;s the LIBRETTIST that sets the tone for the musical, for without it, the music means nothing.

Now, for my take.  I like both of them for different reasons.  I do think that ALW in later years (post Rice) has relied a little too much on specacle than advancing a plot, and Sondheim, when he gets TOO clever, is when he is his weakest (he&#039;s admitted this himself.)  The person who wrote that Sondheim writes &quot;atonal&quot; music obviously does not understand what &quot;atonality&quot; is...but then, some of the best composers (Debussy, Prokoffiev, Stravinsky) have been accused of the same thing.  The main complaint about Sondheim is usually that he writes no &quot;hummable&quot; tunes.  This is due to his infrequent use of reprises (No slur to ALW, but of course you can hum &quot;Music of the Night&quot; or &quot;Think of Me&quot;...the melodies of both are repeated at least 20 times in the piece.)

I think a great deal of the jealousy against ALW is not so much politics, but because he rose to prominance during the time when Broadway was saturated with &quot;spectacle&quot; British shows that ran forever.  This, unfortunately, has affected how new shows come to Broadway...gone are the days of Angels and individual investors, but now muli-million dollar companies have to finance the new shows, hence the shows are &quot;safe&quot; (i.e. guaranteed to run a long time to pay back on the investment), the cycle perpetuates.  

Broadway is no longer an reasonably priced entertainment...it costs big money to go see a show, and I think there is where the real resentment is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This article had me actually look up “Into the Woods” on Wikipedia. The plot synopsis made me realize something: “Into the Woods” reflects the time and politics it was written in, 1987, the end of the cold war. Unfortunately, by doing this, it dates its self. </i></p>
<p>But only if you see it in that prism.  It&#8217;s also been compared to the AIDS epidemic, but again, that prism is one applied by critics.  Sondheim himself said that the overall message was working together to overcome a common menace.  Though, the second acts of Sondheim-Lapine shows are generally weaker than the first act.  </p>
<p>Do also take into account that it&#8217;s the LIBRETTIST that sets the tone for the musical, for without it, the music means nothing.</p>
<p>Now, for my take.  I like both of them for different reasons.  I do think that ALW in later years (post Rice) has relied a little too much on specacle than advancing a plot, and Sondheim, when he gets TOO clever, is when he is his weakest (he&#8217;s admitted this himself.)  The person who wrote that Sondheim writes &#8220;atonal&#8221; music obviously does not understand what &#8220;atonality&#8221; is&#8230;but then, some of the best composers (Debussy, Prokoffiev, Stravinsky) have been accused of the same thing.  The main complaint about Sondheim is usually that he writes no &#8220;hummable&#8221; tunes.  This is due to his infrequent use of reprises (No slur to ALW, but of course you can hum &#8220;Music of the Night&#8221; or &#8220;Think of Me&#8221;&#8230;the melodies of both are repeated at least 20 times in the piece.)</p>
<p>I think a great deal of the jealousy against ALW is not so much politics, but because he rose to prominance during the time when Broadway was saturated with &#8220;spectacle&#8221; British shows that ran forever.  This, unfortunately, has affected how new shows come to Broadway&#8230;gone are the days of Angels and individual investors, but now muli-million dollar companies have to finance the new shows, hence the shows are &#8220;safe&#8221; (i.e. guaranteed to run a long time to pay back on the investment), the cycle perpetuates.  </p>
<p>Broadway is no longer an reasonably priced entertainment&#8230;it costs big money to go see a show, and I think there is where the real resentment is.</p>
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		<title>By: Big Hollywood &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Life Upon the &#8220;Wicked&#8221; Stage</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sright/2009/01/16/music-of-the-knight-in-defense-of-sir-andrew-lloyd-weber/comment-page-1/#comment-64201</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Hollywood &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Life Upon the &#8220;Wicked&#8221; Stage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=21089#comment-64201</guid>
		<description>[...] previous posts on Rent and Andrew Lloyd Webber have elicited debates about the artistic worth of the plays in question and although I never [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] previous posts on Rent and Andrew Lloyd Webber have elicited debates about the artistic worth of the plays in question and although I never [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bobc</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sright/2009/01/16/music-of-the-knight-in-defense-of-sir-andrew-lloyd-weber/comment-page-1/#comment-56705</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=21089#comment-56705</guid>
		<description>I much prefer ALW.  I like music that I can hum, whistle or sing to.  His music sticks with you.  And those that provide the lyrics to his music, say more within one song, than others could put in a whole book.

I never liked Sondheim&#039;s music, sorry Ms.&quot;Funny Girl&quot;, Barbra!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I much prefer ALW.  I like music that I can hum, whistle or sing to.  His music sticks with you.  And those that provide the lyrics to his music, say more within one song, than others could put in a whole book.</p>
<p>I never liked Sondheim&#8217;s music, sorry Ms.&#8221;Funny Girl&#8221;, Barbra!</p>
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		<title>By: maatkare</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sright/2009/01/16/music-of-the-knight-in-defense-of-sir-andrew-lloyd-weber/comment-page-1/#comment-55413</link>
		<dc:creator>maatkare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=21089#comment-55413</guid>
		<description>Great post, LIZL. Question, and don&#039;t mean to get all chat-roomy: what&#039;s everyone&#039;s first Broadway experience? I&#039;ll date myself with mine: my mom got us standby seats to &quot;Gypsy&quot;--the Angela Lansbury revival in the 70&#039;s, and I clearly remember running up the aisle to our seats as the overture played. My first &quot;solo&quot; B&#039;way with girlfriends in the 80s? ALW&#039;s &quot;Joseph&quot; with the late Laurie Beechman as the narrator. How sophisticated we were! ;-) So long life and good health to both Steven and Andrew!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, LIZL. Question, and don&#8217;t mean to get all chat-roomy: what&#8217;s everyone&#8217;s first Broadway experience? I&#8217;ll date myself with mine: my mom got us standby seats to &#8220;Gypsy&#8221;&#8211;the Angela Lansbury revival in the 70&#8217;s, and I clearly remember running up the aisle to our seats as the overture played. My first &#8220;solo&#8221; B&#8217;way with girlfriends in the 80s? ALW&#8217;s &#8220;Joseph&#8221; with the late Laurie Beechman as the narrator. How sophisticated we were! <img src='http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  So long life and good health to both Steven and Andrew!</p>
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