Leftist Nihilism Strikes the Hollywood Comedy
by Seth MitchellWe all know that for decades Hollywood has been creating preachy, leftist films all with the sole intention of annoying conservatives. Conservatives have responded with numerous complaints, and then with complacency. We now tend to ignore the liberal themes and watch the movies anyway, cheering on the hero, regardless of whether or not we actually believe in his ultimate goal. Recently, however, Hollywood has pulled another weapon out of its arsenal to annoy conservatives, but it is destroying comedy in the process.
As the readers of Big Hollywood know too well, Hollywood began its attacks by ridiculing those of us who hold our values dear—claiming a pluralistic high ground that all beliefs are equal and we shouldn’t judge others (unless you happen to be one of those white, bigoted, hillbilly Jesus freaks). Now that pluralism no longer seems to ignite conservatives with the same fervent anger, Hollywood has turned to nihilism; because, after all, when everything is true, nothing is true. With no truth, Hollywood can no longer give its heroes any reason to mature or chase after dreams because lives and journeys have no meaning, draining the enjoyment out of their films.
Admittedly, nihilism is not a new tool in Hollywood’s toolbox. Numerous dramatic films and even comedies (see Woody Allen) have examined the dreary nothingness of life, but now this mindset has permeated into the realm of feel-good comedies. I believe this is one step too far. From “Knocked Up” to “Forgetting Sarah Marshall,” Hollywood’s last few comedy hits have provided plenty of laughs, but, in the end, nihilism sucks the meaning from these films, and, as a result, the humor gives way to gloom.
This phenomenon cropped up most recently in “I Love You, Man.” The film follows Peter, played by Paul Rudd, on his quest to find a best man. Peter is a nice enough guy who does his best to do the right thing in any given situation. However, if the going gets tough, Peter takes off. When faced with difficult decisions, Peter is too insecure to make a choice and retreats into the safety of his personal bubble. As a result, Peter finds himself with no best man for his upcoming wedding.
During his search, Peter meets Sydney, portrayed by Jason Segal. Unlike Peter, Sydney doesn’t care about right and wrong and is therefore never intimidated by any situation. He’s only concerned with what he wants in the moment, and thus lives the life of an overgrown adolescent, doing as he pleases without regard for the consequences.
The dichotomy between these two men could be a perfect setup for a humorous tale in which both men are confronted with their flaws and overcome them as their relationship deepens—a modern day “The Odd Couple,” if you will. However, since the film avoids advocating any value system whatsoever, neither character has any incentive to grow. Therefore, neither man does.
The friction between Peter and Sydney’s opposing lifestyles finally takes its toll and the two men break off all contact with one another. When faced with the unfortunate end of their new friendship, neither man finds a reason to mature and attempt reconciliation, but instead both retreat into their old patterns.
**SPOILERS**
Peter, as usual, avoids confrontation and uses a random collection of guys as his groomsmen, despite having no intimate connection with most of them. At his wedding, his fiancé, Zoe, sees how lonely Peter is and calls Sydney to tell him to come to the ceremony. Sydney is already on his way to the wedding when she calls. Having been rejected by other friends when trying to make plans for the weekend, Sydney decides his best plan of action is to crash the wedding. Rather than think of how this could impact the ceremony, Sydney is only selfishly concerned about how much better he will feel when he sees Peter again.
In the end, the two men make up, and Sydney stands by Peter as his best man. But does this reconciliation really mean anything? Since neither man has changed, what exactly are we cheering for? Would Peter have ever reconciled with Sydney if Zoe hadn’t intervened? There’s no reason to think so. Will Sydney continue his adolescent lifestyle as Peter moves into a new stage of life, causing their friendship to fall apart again at some point down the road? Most likely. If each man can look at his flaws and find no reason to change, what was the point of their struggle throughout the film; and why should we care whether or not their friendship endures?
**END SPOILERS**
In the good old days, Hollywood knew how to use a story to create endearing characters. Felix Unger and Oscar Madison, another pair of unlikely friends, became Hollywood legend in the film adaption of Neil Simon’s “The Odd Couple.” These two men battle it out as uptight Felix deals with his pending divorce, and slovenly Oscar still reels from his own divorce, months earlier. Both men lead miserable lives in the wake of the demise of their marriages, and yet, through their friendship; even with its own rocky moments, each man reinvents himself. Oscar finally moves on from his wife; leaving the past in the past, while Felix lives up to his responsibilities, paying his alimony and taking an interest keeping his former pigsty of an apartment clean.
Yet, in the end, its not that both of these men have grown up, but, rather that we have seen a friendship come to the brink of disaster and back, strengthening the bond between the two friends that draws the us in. From the beginning, when Felix worries that Oscar is trying to kill himself, to when Oscar prefaces his rant against Felix’s laziness with his profound gratitude to Felix taking him in, it is apparent that these two men truly care for each other. It is this fact that allows us to care as well.
This is nihilism’s greatest failing in “I Love You, Man.” When there is no meaning in life, one is left with nothing but oneself, and so nihilism gives way to narcissism. Peter never takes an interest in helping Sydney get off his couch, so that Sydney may do something with his life. Rather, Peter goes along with all of Sydney’s whims, no matter how uncomfortable he is with them. Peter just wants any guy to be his friend so that he can perfect the facade that is his life. Sydney, while perhaps taking a modicum of interest in getting Peter to break out of his uptight shell, only does so for the sole purpose of having another guy legitimize his juvenile way of life. If Peter is willing to waste an afternoon away in the man cave, then Sydney doesn’t have the to face the fact that fact that his life is completely empty. Neither man is invested in the friendship beyond his own selfish desires.
When a feel-good ending is finally pushed on the audience, the shallowness of Peter and Sydney’s bond become glaringly apparent. The audience has been betrayed into thinking that they are laughing along with their protagonists as they improve themselves and save their friendship, when, in reality, the audience has just been laughing at these two men…period. Where is the feel good in that?
So, congratulations Hollywood; you have found yet another way to annoy conservatives at the box office – turning comedy into tragedy. Where you once used humor in films to give Americans an escape from everyday life, you now only pile on the discontent and misery. This time, however, you’re not lulling this conservative into a sense of complacency. In fact, I may not even notice the next time you release one of your so-called comedies – I’ll be too busy working on my own!







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78 Comments
Seems bashing Knocked Up has become a repeated theme at BH, and I still don't get it. Aside from being a popular film enjoyed by men and women, there is nothing nihilistic about it. The two protagaonists get pregnant from a one-night stand, and then grow together through ultimately ups and downs to stay together, have the baby, and get married. Recall the final "what happened later" home videos, and we see the two growing up as their child grows along with them. How is this nihilistic? Nihilism – or something like it – would have been a film about the woman struggling after her abortion, surely to take place at the end of the first reel.
I haven't seen ILYM, but if Knocked Up and Sarah Marshall are the idea of nihilism, then I'm guessing ILYM is probably good and meaningful.
The Dude and Walter made a stand against nihilism — and Donny gave his life.
I gotta agree with CBK, I simply don't see it in the movies you are using as examples. 'Knocked Up' was the furthest thing from leftist nihilism, 'I Love You, Man' was fun but shallow, not nihilistic.
If any movie fits your theory, it would probably be this past weekend's 'The Hangover'.
What about Seinfeld? They never grew, even until the last episode (which I did NOT like but not for that reason). And how much of this is intentional? Did the filmmakers actively decide to write and/or direct "a nihilist comedy"?
I also have to agree with CBK re: Knocked Up.
I'm also thinking of two other classic comedies mentioned on this site: Caddyshack and Animal House. I might be totally misreading them but those characters don't really grow either, at least not in the traditional screenwriting 101 sense.
You've gotten the characters of Felix and Oscar exactly backwards. Oscar was concerned about Felix attempting suicide, and it is Felix who rants about Oscar's slovenly ways and expresses gratitude to Oscar for taking him in. You really should watch the movie before you use it as a reference.
OSCAR; "Those little notes Felix, I hate those little notes on my pillow!" (reads note) "Gone shopping, be back in 30 minutes, F.U." It took me twenty minutes to figure out 'F.U." meant Felix Unger!"
http://shermansmarch.blogspot.com
The Dude…. well, the Dude… abides
I haven't seen the movie, as it looked to me like a chick-flick for guys…blechhh. 'Bride Wars' is another example in my in my mind of nihilistic comedy (I'm still berating myself for watching it).
On the bright side, your post recalls Lemmon and Matthau in 'Grumpy Old Men', and don't forget Laurel and Hardy, another couple of non-conservative-annoying guys.
Good luck on your screenwriting, Seth…sounds like you know how to deliver something worth watching.
Oscar (walter matthau) is the slovenly one, Felix (jack lemmon) is the neatnik – you get them backward near the end yer piece.
Hey conservatives (speaking as one myself); how about LIGHTNEING UP already? Man, you can't go one day without complaining about something (real or imagined) you see as a slight to your precious movement…yeah, everything was so much greater back then in "the good old days"; we GET it already!
I agree Wah Wahhhhh. We're not a bunch of paranoid leftists. Sometimes a movie is just a movie.
and sometimes movies just flat out stink no matter what their politics…
Amen to that!
On a slightly unrelated note, I was thinking about this the other day. As funny as some of today's comedies are, where are the funny catchphrases? Where are the lines we'll be quoting 20 years from now? I'm talking about "He slimed me" and "Don't call me Shirley" and all of Dangerfield's dialogue in Caddyshack. Sure, Anchorman had some funny lines (mostly Carrell's) but as far as Apatow's other work, the only one I can think of is the line from Virgin about "putting p—- on a pedestal" because it's true.
That's like, for me, the only memorable line in that flick.
Okay, rant over.
These movies don't strike me as nihilistic– though I get where Seth was going with this. When I think of nihilistic movies I think of films like "Se7en." Now that was a bleak one. But it made you think…
I agree CBK. Can't understand the hate for Knocked Up. The pot-smoking loser gets a real job, faces up to his responsibility, reads the darned baby books and MANS UP!
How is that nihilistic?
They may not be nihilistic so much as examples of lazy screenwriting or unfleshed characters or symptomatic of rewrites and improv (every one of these movies seems to have improv which is only bad when I can tell they're improvising on film). I thought of Se7en as well but it was still a great, well-crafted film. Fight Club also came to mind but that's a topic for another thread.
Post 200! Woo-hoo!
…and I prefer it when comedy characters DON'T grow.
My three favorite comedy characters of all time:
Rufus T. Firefly — starts the movie oversleeping and nearly missing his inauguration; ends it throwing apples at Margeret Dumont
Egbert Souse — appears to have changed, becoming fabulously wealthy (completely by accident) as well as a beloved and respected husband, father, and son-in-law — but we last see him following Shemp Howard back to the Black P***y [avoiding the site's hyper-sensitive filter here] Cat Cafe.
Max Bialystock — last seen in prison reprising the same scam that put him there.
This could apply to most of Groucho's characters. When I read the article, the first one I thought of was Captain Spaulding.
It's funny, I thought of "Fight Club" too, but I didn't want to just list Brad Pitt films.
"American Psycho" comes to mind too..
At least until MGM softened their characters a bit and added plots that had them trying to do some or other good deed for someone — the studio wanted to expand their appeal to female audiences — the Marx Brothers' comedy was quite "nihilistic" — and funny as hell.
Love the post. Always enjoy a different idea that I had not considered. I like to ponder about the things that are
not being said, and this article calls that to your attention. Thanks.
I've seen all three, and have no idea what Mr. Mitchell is talking about. All of these movies involved growth of the various characters, if minimally. They're not perfect, by any means, but there's a moral there.
I respectfully disagree with this essay. The movies the author uses as his examples of nihilistic comedies are far from. I categorize these as "Apatow films," even though they are not all directed by him, they all involve a lot of the same people. SOME MINOR SPOILERS AHEAD.
In "Knocked Up" two polar opposites (one a ladder-climbing tv show host and a salaried pot smoker) hook up, she gets pregnant and despite the difficulties they face, the two work out their glaring problems for the greater purpose of raising a child. In the end we see this "odd couple" overjoyed as they grow with their little girl. A very strong pro-life message emanates from the film. If anything, these two start out selfish and we watch as their priorities change. The film has been berated for forcing a relationship between two unlikely people (mostly because of the spectrum-end looks of the leads), calling it unrealistic. To me, this is commentary is the nihilistic influence.
In "Forgetting Sarah Marshall" the leading man, an average guy, is dumped by his long-term girlfriend (who we later learned cheated on him). He vacations to Hawaii, sulks, cries and laments his past love. Once he realizes this gets him nowhere, he decides to move on. He quickly hits it off with a local girl to find that she's the girl of his dreams. Throughout the film, he makes mistakes and is forced to own up to them. This new relationship allows him to grow, whereas the previous one stifled him. His ex also realizes what she gave up (in exchange for a seemingly charming, but ultimately piggish rockstar), but he has the grounding to turn her away, something he would not have been able to do at the beginning of the film.
"I Love You, Man," Peter has trekked through his life not looking at the big picture. Very inwardly focused, never making time for friends. However, once he realizes this downfall he makes efforts to change it. He finds a friend in Sydney, someone else who, although a bit more daring than Peter, also doesn't have a large group of friends. Another odd couple, they challenge each other. Sydney is a bit of a child and does mature with Peter's influence. Peter learns to loosen up enough to enjoy his life, and appreciate his forthcoming marriage.
One film not included in the essay worth mentioning is "The 40-Year-Old Virgin." The film admonishes casual, meaningless, for-the-moment sex, while celebrating the beauty of sex within true love. Andy, the titular character, has given up ever finding love. When his coworkers learn of his virgin status, they offer their help. However, each of them are completely misguided in how they handle their relationships. One pines for a girl who dumped him long ago, one is married but has continual affairs, another is single but will sleep with anything that moves. Looseness (for both men and women) is portrayed as a very shallow quality. It isn't until Andy meets a single mother with issues of her own that he is able to come out of his shell. He goes through great lengths to hide from her his virgin status, and when she finds out, she laughs it off, wondering why he was so worried about it. Although they try at various points, the couple does not have their first sexual encounter until their honeymoon night. In the end, awkward Andy wins and his coworkers realize what they are missing out on.
Sure, the above films are R rated comedies, and are filled with adult content. But, not every movie has to be made for kids. Kids shouldn't be grappling with most of the themes presented in these films anyway. I do not believe any of these films are nihilistic as each of them has very positive lessons worth taking a look at. They are also very entertaining at the same time.
Yeah, but you can't call a movie nihilistic simply because of a lack of moral. Cause then you have to call the Marx Bros. nihilists. Sometimes comedy is just comedy.
Thanks for saying everything there is to be said about nothing.
I agree with the essay. Sadly, so many Hollywood comedies have no heart or moral core, and thus are exercises in pointless nihilism — mental masturbation, if you will. I don't enjoy them, I don't laugh at them, and seeing the previews makes me feel disgusted about what immature young men think is funny.
I recall a columnist writing about how teenage girls are devouring the abstinence-oriented, chaste relationship in the Twilight books, and boys are watching Judd Apatow movies and cruising porn. Yeah, there's going to be an epic clash here, and unless the Muslims win and enslave all women, I know who's going to win this one. You can have Apatow or you can have the woman of your dreams, but you're not going to have both.
so Mr Marco knows comedy like history… very nice… agree to all of the above, particularly Egbert Souse ("not souse, soo-zay…") and Shemp's silent cameo as the bartender who causes pavlovian behavior in Field's character whenever he is walking to open his bar is priceless. Not as big of a Marx Bros fan as some but Rufus was his best character, as Max Bialystock was by far the best character to come out of Mel Brook's
febrile mind…
no rant- just fact. When you substitute crass behavior and blatant sex for humor it is not surprising that the dialogue would be give short shrift…
Se7en wasn't nihilistic. It's a dark, disturbing movie, but it's not nihilistic. Morgan Freeman's character spends the whole movie trying to retire and escape his duties, but at the end, he realizes he can't give up his responsibility as a police detective, no matter how rotten the world becomes. There is meaning to his actions, and there is good and evil.
Maybe. But I still think there was a heavy nihilistic thread running through the film. For all of his intelligence and good police work, Freeman never catches the guy. He turns himself in. Spacy's character finishes his mission and gets what he wants– which is to have his name live in infamy. To me the film represents the fame all the schoolyard shooters get when their names get splashed all over the news. There's no greater message, no positive aspect to it. It's just death and ratings. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the film. I do. I just don't think there's anything hopeful about it.
we agree. Not a fan of any of them, Rogen has little appeal and Apatow is a one trick pony. However, there is plenty of nihilistic crud out there and these just aren't it… so it's really just a matter of taste here, not some left wing conspiracy to degrade our society and ruin our youth…
or, is it?…
Hey dcase!
I still think that Zero Mostel wuz robbed — should have won for Best Actor in 1968!
"The Bank Dick" is also great because it's the only movie that I know besides "Zulu" that uses the word "assagai."
"It wasn't a knife, it was an assagai. The sword Lee surrendered to Grant was a potato peeler by comparison."
I also love when Souse asks about the horse racing results at the bar: "How'd Gumlegs make out at Delmonico today?" ("Gumlegs" was Fields' rather cruel "pet" name for a certain POTUS that he despised.)
I'm not sure we saw the same movies.
The "Knocked Up" I saw presented the tired, common trope of the know-all, infinitely wise, toned, tan, and beautiful woman having to corral the immature, scruffy, overweight, man-boyish loser. And how did she do this? By listening to her bitchy hausfrau friend who treats her husband like property.
spot on… we actually have an assagai laying around somewhere, Gonville Bromhead would be proud no doubt. Yes, 'The Bank Dick' is one of the two or three best comedies we've ever seen; it's a shame that Fields isn't held in the same regard as the Marx brothers- my very favorite scene is when he's telling his story to the studio head and he's sitting in the 'open air' compartment of the airplane with his flask balanced on the lip… a jolt of turbulence and the flask falls off the side.
Fields instantly jumps out of the plane to retrieve his flask,,,
Glad to see you bring the same estimable intellectual heft to film as you do in history… stick around…
I agree with Mr. Blank. Se7en deals with nihilism, certainly — having witnessed evil after evil after evil, Freeman's character has become filled with despair and taken a nihilistic viewpoint of the world. But by the end of the movie he has rejected this viewpoint and accepted that, while the world may be full of evil and a policeman's job is never done, goodness is still worth fighting for. The quote from Hemingway and Freeman's character's response to it illustrates this.
"'The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."
Okay, I admit, this is a totally silly thing to mention. But I got a -1 for having the gall to suggest "Se7en" was nihilistic? I had no idea this was such a hot button topic…
"(speaking as one myself)"
If you were one, you wouldn't have to say that.
There's no logic to how people employ the minus button around here. Although if you want lots of plusses, just bash David Letterman….
You're exactly right, Dom. The author transposed Oscar & Felix. Oscar was the sarcastic slob & Felix was the suicidal neat freak. Oh, and you liked the movie, the tv series with Jack Klugman & Tony Randall was hysterically funny and one of the best tv comedies ever.
Note to self….when feeling inadequate, bash Letterman…
Thanks!
I disagree about Se7en, although I do agree there was a bit of lazy screenwriting in it. The character of David (Brad Pitt) becomes wrath. But he's arrested. That means that John Doe DIDN'T complete his "masterpiece" because wrath was never killed. So a real screenwriter would have had David kill John Doe, THEN himself, because that's the only way Doe wins. Instead, the plan isn't completed but the movie pretends Doe won anyway…
If Freeman's character wasn't in there, then that WOULD be nihilistic. But Freeman does rescue it from that fate.
You're right Scott. Apatow uses sight & sex gags instead of creativity in dialog. No memorable lines appear in the three Apatow flicks I've seen. "This club is restricted Wang, so don't tell them you're Jewish" is one of Rodney's classics from Caddyshack…
Is it any coincidence that these movies are all made by jews?
Brooks had several great characters such as Hedley Lamarr from Blazing Saddles. When he shoots the rustler for chewing gum on line I still laugh out loud.
As good as Matthau and Lemon are in the movie (and they are great) for me Klugman and Randall are the definitive Oscar and Felix. Did you know that Art Carney was the original Felix on Broadway?
Aren't you hand-cuffed to a bed at GW hospital?
dcase:
Back at ya. Glad to see we share another interest.
How about in "My Little Chickadee" when Fields is bragging about the time he knocked down "Chicago Molly." The bartender disagrees: "YOU knocked her down? I was the one that knocked her down."
"Yes, but I was the one that started kicking her. I almost injured my great toe."
…and Frau Blucher (not to mention Lilli von Schtupp).
No worries, sqt. I got my first -1 yesterday for saying that I was still gonna see Transformers 2 despite what Ms. Fox said. Who knows?
"We all know that for decades Hollywood has been creating preachy, leftist films all with the sole intention of annoying conservatives."
Actually the sole intention of the overwhelming majority of movies is to make money. Bad news, Seth: IT"S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU.
spot on about '40-yr-Old-Virgin'. Though originally mocked, Andy turns out to be the most mature and most spot-on about the point of sex and ultimately love. The film (and 'Knocked-Up) are practically the opposite of nihilistic.
Seth, your heart is in the right place, but your analysis is wrong. Knocked Up and Forgetting Sarah Marshall, while crude and profane, teach overgrown adolescents that it's cool to grow up and be responsible. A blunter message in a prissy flick would be a turnoff, and no one would watch. These movies are exactly how Hollywood can have a positive impact on the culture, because they are delivering a positive message to the audience that really needs to hear it.
Well actually, rtl, based on evidence provided by Big Hollywood posters themselves (and Seth Mitchell, of course), you ARE as paranoid as the paranoid leftists.
The trick is to recognize paranoia on both sides, not just the one you happen to agree with.
How dare you! The nerve!
Hey, I'll probably take my kids. They loved the first one and if I let myself be so offended by everything some Hollywood idiot says, I'd never get to see anything. Besides, John Voight was in the first one– so that balances things out..right?
The Apatow-era movies are NOT nihilistic. "Team America" is nihilistic (also funny as hell, yes.) "Crank" is nihilistic.
Caddyshack and Animal House are ALSO not nihilistic – they're "guy" wish-fulfillment fantasies. Both films manufacture scenarios by which the grossly-irresponsible / "fun" option is the correct and even heroic one. In AH, the Delts respond to their (lets face it, wholly justified) expulsion by launching a militarized slapstick-assault on all vestiges of tradition and decency. In CS, the nominal protagonist opts for the influence/support of Dangerfield's niveaux-riche perpetual-adolescent over Knight's obnoxious but "safe" life-advancing blueblood. In both cases this turns out to be the right decision, in defiance of all logic and reason, as though the universe itself realigns in order to favor the continued enjoyment of goofy young men.
I like these movies.
and Shemp's name was – remembering here- Joe Guelpe… no one had a more subversive humor than WC Fields, and that includes Groucho Marx. You are right about his insidious comments that flew past the Hays Code… his double entedre's with Mae West (and hers as well) still hold up well today. It's a shame he hasn't 'made the cut'- neither did Buster Keaton, sadly- as the Marx bros, and the Stooges have…
and the horses would whinny every time Frau Blucher's name was mentioned… Blucher is 'glue' in German; the horses, being of course conversant in their native tongue- were verklempt!
To Seth M.: If you want to dismiss the stereotype of conservatives "not having a sense of humor/the ability to be funny", you failed miseably in your mission, seeing that the films you trashed are NOT LIBERAL (as has been noted in many of the posts that followed)! Maybe you're just better off perusing the oeuvres of Martin Lawrence and Dane Cook instead…
I'm glad someone clarified that the characters are presented backwards here. One of the greatest comedies of all time, and I agree that Klugman and Randall perfected the roles. I didn't know that about Carney–I see him more in the Oscar role.
dcase:
There's a great book (probably long out-of-print–I picked it up at a used-book store, years ago), "W.C. Fields by Himself." It's a collection of his "papers" — letters, scripts, scenarios, essays, etc. — edited by his grandson. One of my favorite pieces is a letter to his good friend and drinking buddy, John Barrymore. He starts out writing about how he's sitting by his fireside with a pitcher of martinis and thinking of old friends — as the letter goes on, it's increasingly marred by typos and just plain gibberish, and gets nastier and nastier. It's hilarious.
The man was a true genius.
we have to look that up- how about Errol Flynn and his buddies stealing Barrymore's corpse from the funeral home, propping him up in a chair, and playing their nightly poker game as if nothing ever happened?
Now THOSE were the days…
I totally get what Mr. Mitchell as driving at here, and I applaud him for it. I have the sneaking suspicion most people looked nihilism up in Webster's dictionary and that blew the whole article for them. There are some penetrating insights in this article if people would take the time to really get what he is driving at. Mitchell's descriptions of most of the movies made a lot of sense from the angle he was coming from. The author maybe could have stricken "Knocked Up" from the list, and added "Juno." That movie is loaded with nihilistic contradictions.
Great opinion; now go back and sit on your rocking chair while you mainline Boniva, you withered old hag!
Nihilism
Philosophy.
An extreme form of skepticism that denies all existence.
A doctrine holding that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated.
Rejection of all distinctions in moral or religious value and a willingness to repudiate all previous theories of morality or religious belief.
The belief that destruction of existing political or social institutions is necessary for future improvement.
also Nihilism A diffuse, revolutionary movement of mid 19th-century Russia that scorned authority and tradition and believed in reason, materialism, and radical change in society and government through terrorism and assassination.
Hmmm, seems like Mr. Mitchell hit the nail on the head. Knocked Up could have been as great as Nine Months but it is just too negative and the positive things about the movie is just bogged down by it's "nihilistic" message:) There I said it…………..
Wow, that was amazing, B Tamland. Erudite, witty, incisive, intelligent… well, words fail me. Actually, they fail you.
Let me take a guess at your problem, shall I? You are lonely, single, and pudgy. You spend a lot of time cruising porn online and watching it at home. Your job is unsatisfying, you have no love life, you don't work out or take care of your body and all the girls who won't have anything to do with you are stupid bitches. Am I getting close, Mr. Tamland? Shall I go on? You like Apatow movies and think they're hilarious, and you're furious because a woman (a stupid bitch) dares to think that you're not too bright for thinking they're the best thing ever.
I'm not a withered old hag. But I bet everything I predict about you is true. Ha.
"The 'Knocked Up' I saw presented the tired, common trope of the know-all, infinitely wise, toned, tan, and beautiful woman having to corral the immature, scruffy, overweight, man-boyish loser. And how did she do this? By listening to her bitchy hausfrau friend who treats her husband like property."
First, the scruffy, overweight, man-boyish loser needed to grow up. Second, the toned, tan beautiful woman was certainly not infitely wise. In fact, she was a typical shrew, and like all shrews she was shown up eventually. Her friend was actually her sister, who was a bithc, but her husband was a bit of an ass, and the man-boy showed her up too, so there.
"What about Seinfeld? They never grew, even until the last episode (which I did NOT like but not for that reason). And how much of this is intentional? Did the filmmakers actively decide to write and/or direct 'a nihilist comedy'?"
Since when are TV characters supposed to change? I mean, family shows do, of course, because the kids inevitably grow up. Even then, when the kids go off to college, the shows usually fall apart. In the meantime, they try as hard as they can to keep things the same.
Unlike movies, TV shows aren't over in two hours. They go on for years and years. It would take more ingenuity than the writers have to keep viewers hooked through the change. If people like yelling George, crazy Kramer, snarky Jerry, etc., that's what they stick with. Jerry in a long-term relationship or Elaine with a baby might be interesting, but it wouldn't be what they started out to do. It would be like a different show. And if the show went that way, most likely it would turn to crap.
I know. It was just a hypothetical question. I suppose it doesn't apply since it's a TV show. The motto of Seinfeld was "no hugging, no learning" and most people seemed to enjoy it. I know I did.
"At his wedding, his fiancé, Zoe, sees how lonely Peter is and calls Sydney to tell him to come to the ceremony. Sydney is already on his way to the wedding when she calls…Rather than think of how this could impact the ceremony, Sydney is only selfishly concerned about how much better he will feel when he sees Peter again."
This doesn't at all happen because of nihilism. It happens because movies need big showpiece endings. They can't have their climax in the dressing room before the ceremony. it has to happen out in front of everyone with seconds to spare.
Anyway, you could ask the question "but did they really change?"about every happy ending. Sometimes it's not about people changing forever. Sometimes it's about people changing a little. And both Sydney and Peter changed somwhat. Peter got confidence, Sydney got a real adult friend.
I think it's way overboard to refer to ridiculing things people hold dear–which, by the way, is a big part of the whole purpose of comedy–as "nihilism". Nevermind the more literal definition of believing in nothing. I can accept calling people who believe there is no basis for any value nihilists. Perhaps moral relativists would be better, but fine.
However, isn't it a bit of a stretch to jump from not having any values to ridiculing some values? I don't care how little the soulless man-boy hedonists in "Knocked Up" or "I Love You, Man" changed. They certainly weren't confirmed in all of their beliefs. In other words, there were other voices, voices upholding traditional values, implied or explicit, in the films. You'd have to be covering your ears not to hear it.
"I recall a columnist writing about how teenage girls are devouring the abstinence-oriented, chaste relationship in the Twilight books"
Though the books appear to promote abstinence, they also transvaluate vampires, traditionally monsters, into heroes. Talk about nihilism: you can't even call monsters monsters anymore. (/sarcasm)
Agree completely with your assessment of the movies, and enjoy Apatow's work in general very much. Larry Sanders was pretty nihilistic (but hilarious), Freaks and Geeks had as much heart as any show I've ever seen.
Well, of course if you present a character who needs to grow up … they need to grow up.
My problem with the presentation is that it's tiresome and cliched. The man is all out-of-sorts, and needs the joys of being latched to a babymaker and to surrender all his individuality and free will to 'grow up'. It's just how things always are now: the man is the goof, the buffoon, the moron, and the woman the eye-rolling picture of calm, poise, serenity, and wisdom.
Heigl's character had minimal flaws – she freaked out a little about being a mom, but spent most of the movie complaining that manchild hadn't grown up yet. Having one scene where you get yelled at, and then the yeller apologizes and toes the line, is not getting 'shown up'.
And the Leslie Mann character was completely baffling to me. How was Paul Rudd's character an ass? I'd scheme to get away from that horror too. But, of course, at the end he admits he's in the wrong too. Hooray.
"On a slightly unrelated note, I was thinking about this the other day. As funny as some of today's comedies are, where are the funny catchphrases? Where are the lines we'll be quoting 20 years from now? I'm talking about 'He slimed me' and 'Don't call me Shirley' and all of Dangerfield's dialogue in Caddyshack."
I'm guessing you grew up in the 80s, given the vintage of you quotes. What you have to realize is quotes are for teenagers and immature 20-somethings. And since you didn't see Apatow movies in your teen years, of course you wouldn't quote them.
I can remember a whole lot of Simpsons (and Big Lebowski, for that matter, which has popped up a lot on this thread) thrown around when I was in high school, which makes perfect sense given that we had all been watching the show since we were 7. If you go to a high school or college campus today, I bet you'd find at least as much Apatow as Caddyshack or Simpson. Well, maybe not The Simpsons, since it's still on, but you get the point.
"When I think of nihilistic movies I think of films like 'Se7en.'"
It seems that way when Paltrow says she wants to abort her kid so that it won't grow up in this world, and especially after the climax. But Freeman saves it right at the end when he says the world is worth saving. He's our hero.
Although, he is childless and a bit cold and empty, so I don't know.
"That means that John Doe DIDN'T complete his 'masterpiece' because wrath was never killed."
Can't we imagine Pitt will get the death penalty? I know some cop says, "We'll take care of him," or something, but still.
tublecane –
I suppose you're right. I was born in 1983 so I guess you can say I grew up in the late 80s. Thanks to my dad, I became well acquainted (albeit via edited for TV broadcasts) with Caddyshack, The Blues Brothers, Animal House, Ghostbusters, etc.
I also went to film school so usually the conversations I have with friends from school are peppered with gratuitous Aliens/Terminator/Star Trek/Star Wars quotes, too.
They were sort of a proto-Rat Pack — except with no singers, and one guy (Flynn) getting all the girls.
Dude, you almost make a point but in the rpocess you demonstrate a lack of knowledge on backround. You have the relationship between Felix and Oscar backwards. Do you have an editor?
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