‘In Harm’s Way’: Imperfect Greatness on the High Seas
by Schizoid MannThe United States Navy is in the news and on my mind lately. The events off the coast of Somalia are surely one very good reason for this. Heroism and service. Ordinary people under extraordinary circumstances. Another not nearly so dramatic, but nonetheless exciting reason, for me at least, involves the very recent honor I’ve had of contributing my prose to a citation to confer on Mr. George Herbert Walker Bush the degree of Doctor of Social Science, honoris causa. His own history, his willingness to serve, to sacrifice and risk everything for a cause, for others, is something we should never underestimate. It’s something we, as Americans have always been good at.
It’s also something our movies used to portray well. We don’t get to see too many of these kinds of movies anymore. Nope, they don’t make them like they used to. That can be said of both the men and women of Bush 41’s generation, as well as the films of that era. But sometimes, in more recent times, we’re graced with shining examples of tarnished excellence, of battered beauty in our citizens and in our favorite art, the movies.
“In Harms Way” is such a movie. It’s a great film. Imperfect, but great. When I ask learned friends of mine about Preminger’s films, they usually omit this one in their list of Otto’s greats. I’ve seen it a few times now, and I’m not sure why they leave it out. I’ve speculated it’s because they haven’t gotten around to seeing it yet. Nope, they’ve seen it, they assure me. So, when I delved deeper as to why it gets left out, I was a bit surprised to see a full spectrum of opinions expressed in describing the film and its flaws, real and imagined. It’s a good sign, though. If a work of art – and this film is art – can evoke such divergent opinions and emotions in an audience, then it’s working. Boy is it ever!
A couple of things seemed to surface far more than others in the criticisms of this flick. Even Kirk Douglas, one of the stars of “In Harms Way” was somewhat vocal at the time in his opinion on some of these same perceived shortcomings.
Basically, he didn’t like the boats.
With all due respect to Kirk, I think he’s wrong on this one. Recent comments I’ve heard about this film miss the mark, too. So, don’t listen to the technologically-dependent reviewers who say that the “special effects are lame.” I’ve seen plenty of worse special effects in newer, bigger budget films. But that’s not important. Because if you look for flaws, you’ll find them. To those who so easily do, I ask the following question: Have you ever had the pleasure of watching Shakespeare performed by a talented acting company on stage? Would you walk out because the stage lighting was lame or a backdrop wasn’t a perfect rendering of a landscape or village street? It has long been my opinion that the folks who complain about special effects being “lame,” “bad” or “cheap” are missing the point.
The entire phenomenon of drama, of film is an “effect,” a cheat, an illusion, pulling the wool over our eyes twenty four times a second. The sum total of cheats and tricks are intended to transport the mind to another place, the setting of the film. The acting, scenery, effects are there to help us imagine, to aid our mind on its journey. So, when I hear one complain that the acting in a film is great, but that the effects stink, it simply tells me that the viewer’s mind is too weak to make the jump, to connect the dots, because, perhaps, some of the dots are not as boldly written as others. Either that or they just came out of a Roger Corman flick.
As an alternative, would those critics of cheaper effects prefer to have Otto Preminger go out sink actual cruisers, torpedo boats and the real battleship Yamato for his film? I almost expect the answer to be ‘yes’, judging from some of the commentary I’ve read on this subject and others like it. Let’s get serious, folks. Without a doubt, there seems to be a trend, more prevalent as the tooth gets long and the days go by, to confuse narrative drama with documentary. Even the Italian Neo Realists knew where to draw the line. Maybe it’s because documentaries of late have been produced like narratives, manipulative and with a clear and present intent on affecting the heart and mind of the viewer, politically and ideologically. Or maybe it’s because audiences are more sophisticated now and demand more technical prowess for their buck. Forget it. Give me a break. If the folks coming out of American Pie II are to be described as more sophisticated as compared with those exiting a screening of Bicycle Thief, then I’m in the wrong business and I need a new dictionary.
When an old war film like this is shown on television or released on DVD, the usual suspects come out and take their hackneyed pot shots over the bow, criticizing the film for being too tame in the graphic violence department, or for using “cheap models” and other “not realistic” effects. These misguided critiques are often accompanied by the ubiquitous phraseology that goes hand in hand with such complaints, such as, “if you can get past the bad effects….”. This kind of unimaginative discourse is about as useful as Facebook in a knife fight. Often these criticisms rally together an alliance to hit the easy and much targeted Hays Code and Hollywood’s era of so called ‘censorship’, which just so happened to result in the best darn moviemaking ever seen in human history. Nope, that’s coincidence, they say. Mere chance that the obstacles, such as not having a fleet to sink, nor being allowed to show the fact that sailors when hit by the explosive force of artillery are turned into nothing more than steaming stains, actually produced better cinema.
Obstacles help.
They force the filmmaker to go around them, to be resourceful and creative with what they are able to show. Obstacles force the the creators of film art to use the power of their imaginations, and thus spark the viewer’s imagination of what they thought they just saw on the screen, but actually didn’t. By using the effects of association, montage and the art of lighting in creating a desired sensation, whether for suspense, doom or elation, great filmmaker can make us believe what we were seeing, and not seeing. And during that golden age of Hollywood, by not showing, they showed us far more than we can see now in the unbridled Hollywood of CG and anything goes. Take a modern pre CG visual masterpiece such as Blade Runner, for example. If made for the first time, in the near tomorrow of Los Angeles, 2010, Roy Batty’s “I’ve seen things” speech would be omitted in favor of simply showing computer generated attack ships burning off the shoulder of Orion. Cool, though it may be. Roy’s description sparked a fuse that still burns so very, very brightly to this day. Unwavering. The same cannot and would not be said if, the production began tomorrow, and we did see what he saw with Chew’s eyes. It would not be timeless, masterpiece of moviemaking history, but a dated and forgotten one faster than you can say, “you’re talking about memories.” Because, over time, all effects become lame, outdated and clunky. Bar none. No exceptions. The only thing that never becomes outdated is our imagination. What we think we see.
Others, not in favor of the CG answer, and though still not keen on how the battle action was portrayed in “In Harm’s Way” might prefer that grainy newsreel footage be used, as seen in the Pearl Harbor sequence at the outset of the film. No one can argue that such material is not real enough. The process of using stock footage can be convincing if done sparingly, for only seconds on screen, such as in the cold war classic, “Fail Safe”. Personally, I love to see war footage. But not in a feature film. I’d rather see imperfect models than mismatched newsreel footage, which, for obvious reasons, all too often substitutes different vessels and aircraft type for those depicted in the story, usually in mid-scene! Some experts out there familiar with the cold war classic might fire back at me here and state that a movie like “Fail Safe” fails in this regard, as well, and by this very same sin. True, but the insert of stock footage happens so quickly that its somewhat inaccurate characteristics (I won’t say more) goes unnoticed by most viewers not versed in war machinery, leaving us safely undistracted and in the story.
Also, it must be noted that though there is battle action, “In Harms Way” is not a war film, as such. It is a film that uses the war as its setting. Other critics who are able to “get past” the so-called lame effects, charge that there isn’t enough action in the film. This is a valid point. It’s based on a novel. Characterization is of prime importance. But, like From Here to Eternity and Farewell to Arms (both film versions from novels), the setting of the war is only a setting, a backdrop, a time and place to situate the activity of our characters and what kinds of messes they get themselves into. Sure, cinema by definition is about visuality and what happens next, what we see happening next, not about the written word. But there can be a very nice blend of literary greatness, storytelling and visuality that all movie classics from Hollywood’s golden era share. You show me a timeless classic film from the 30s, 40s, 50s and I’ll show you a dense script.
Preminger deserves more credit for doing a fine job in transforming the story from the written word to the big screen. He doesn’t do it alone, of course. To help him are John Wayne, Kirk Douglas, and Patricia Neal with many fine smaller roles filled by Burgess Meredith, Dana Andrews, Franchot Tone and Henry Fonda as well as some other familiar faces I’ll let you enjoy noticing on your own.
I won’t comment on each of the actor’s performances here either; you can see for yourself how fine or poor their acting is by your own standards after watching this admirable film. It’s my opinion, though, that you won’t be disappointed. You’ll find in at least one of them, something you can relate to, in another something you can empathize with, one you can love and maybe one you can honestly hate.
I will add one point about the actors, though, and that is that John Wayne did a tremendous job in this film. Some say his understated performance was due to his having been diagnosed with cancer at the time. I’m in no position to say if that’s true or not. There are probably only a handful of people who still alive who are. But I can say this: if that’s the case, if his suffering from cancer was a reason why his performance was the way it was, then, rather than discredit, it says even more about the man’s strength and character and his ability to perform under such conditions than anything I can even begin to think of.
Another thing about Duke. It’s been my experience that the critics of John Wayne, of his acting, are similarly cynical concerning the topic of U.S. foreign policy and America’s role in the world. Such people, it’s been my experience to note, who resent his “John Wayneness” are often unreceptive to him as a figure of tough, no nonsense America, much more than his skills in acting. They despise what he represents, and therefore, anything he does or stars-in regardless of quality. This is a behavior we’ve all seen in the last several years with regards to George W. Bush. Those eager to mock the decisions he’s made ignore the fact that those same or similar decisions were made by other politicians which the critics themselves celebrated with nothing less than high regard and glee.
Here’s an experiment: next time you hear someone making jokes about John Wayne’s acting, particularly if they aren’t good-natured jokes, or impressions – who doesn’t do a John Wayne impression? – discreetly inquire about their stance on U.S. foreign policy. Don’t be obvious, just see if you can wrangle it out of them delicately. I don’t think you’ll be surprised to find an overly negative and similarly cynical attitude in this area as well.
Watch the film. Ignore the shortcomings. A strong mind can do this easily. A weak mind will dwell on them. It’s your choice. Like Bush ‘41 and his generation depicted in the film, ”In Harm’s Way” is an example of imperfect greatness that perhaps only history can appreciate completely.







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154 Comments
"Brevity is the soul of wit" William Shakespeare. Get to the point!
You are definately right about this film.It's an underrated gem.Now I have to go dig up my DVD of it…….
I'm with you 100% on this. CGI and special effects should support a gripping story, they should not be relied on to make the story gripping.
I also think your point about CGI eliminating the obstacles that pushed creativity is very insightful. Many of the greatest moments in film happened because a clever director found an interesting way to solve some problem. Sadly, subtlety, love of craft, and appreciation of intellect over technical prowess are at a low right now in Hollywood. It is the age of the machine, and we are the worse off for it.
Also, on the issue of bad special effects, most modern CGI is so poorly done, in my opinion, that it is as bad if not worse than the toy boats you saw in the 1950's films. Moreover, they abuse CGI so badly now that any sense of realism is squandered.
Agreed, too many times CGI becomes a crutch for bad storytelling. Some filmmakers use it like a dangling shiny object with a baby, to distract you away from how weak the rest of the movie is. I could name a dozen examples of this, but I'll spare you.
i can not begin to express in words how much i adore the loving expressions and hard ons i see around here for the military. why do i love it so? because it's always from guys who spent as many days in the military as i did (zero).
somewhere my BS detector is going ballistic.
"Creativity thrives on restrictions." – director Nicholas Meyer, Star Trek II DVD audio commentary
I Netflixed this movie recently and I liked it very much. Nerd trivia: the character of Michael Eddington on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine was named after Kirk Douglas' character in this film. Nerd trivia #2: the piano player at the opening party is composer Jerry Goldsmith.
As for special effects, anyone who would complain about such a thing for a movie of this vintage should know better. One of the reasons I stopped my subscription to Cinefex was because it wasn't fun to read anymore. Almost everything is CGI; I would rather read about guys blowing up miniatures and shooting cloud tank footage and lasers in smoky rooms.
Speaking as USN (ret), this has been on my top 10 Navy film list since I first saw it. I'm active on a Navy related social networking website and find this mentioned by a large percentage of the folks in my peer group. The special effects never entered into it before. I judge it by the portrayal of the routine things of sea duty that are often missed in lesser films.
Another of my favorites in The Caine Mutiny. Having just recently seen it again, I did notice some pretty badly shot special effects, but not to the point where they detracted from the movie. One thing that I pointed out to my wife at the end of this one was the dedication. It was simply a thanks to the U.S. Navy. What was unique is that you do NOT see that on any newer movies about the military. If there is a dedication, it's not filling up the screen like it did in the older movies.
My #1 favorite? The Sand Pebbles, although I usually turn it off just before the peacenik ending. Nothing like the the Asiatic Fleet which gave us the expression "Gunboat Diplomacy."
I LOVE Sand Pebbles.I recommend the book(the ending is slightly different too but there is some peacnik stuff in it.The author was a Navy man and it shows.I also recommend the Cinema Classics additio DVD which has a longer version of the movie plus tons of cool extras.
and we have a common disdain for civilians like yourself. It's allright, you can't help it.
and we have a common disdain for civilians like yourself. It's allright, you can't help it.
Three great films. If Dear Leader was going to souvenier me 25 movies on DVD, In Harm's Way, The Caine Mutiny and The Sand Pebbles, had best be included. And this time slick, get them for the right region.
yep, just like these all those libs who lecture America about how great the nanny-state Swedens, Frances and Canadas of the world are, yet the only border they ever crossed was at Border's front door. And I didn't know 43 had a fondness for cola. Wow, live and learn.
Kirk Douglas' character was named Paul Eddington Jr. Just sayin'.
well until i do that, you don't have an argument.
and i still do. thanks for making a dodge on my point though it's noted.
well until i do that, you don't have an argument.
and i still do. thanks for making a dodge on my point though it's noted.
Oh, I know. That's where the last name came from, per DS9 writer/military film buff Ron Moore.
Oh, I know. That's where the last name came from, per DS9 writer/military film buff Ron Moore.
so does that disdain include the writer of this article too then?
I wish someone would CGI aircraft accurately. Some of the sequences they come up with defy physics. Case in point, Pearl Harbor, yuck. Not to mention the Ticonderoga Class cruisers…jeez
oh and btw, reread my post–my disdain isn't for members for the military. my disdain is for the cheerleaders and war hawks on the sidelines trying to make cheap points about accomplishments/sacrifices of others.
US Army 1976-1982. 6 years. Under Jimmy "I should have stuck to farming peanuts" Carter.
Your detector is up your rectum; that tingling isn't the BS, its from your boyfriend Barry. I know, I know, your loving expression, etc. Just keep it private from now on, like you do your intellect.
Thank you so much for using your tax money to finance my VA loan on my gorgeous house! My numerous children will love it far into the future. Keep paying your share for me.
I love this movie and for the very reasons Schizoid puts forth. It is all about a story set against the backdrop of war. Action sequences for thier own sake are what Hollyweird is all about these days and the craft suffers. Forgettable characters, ridiculous plots and little to hold the movies interest except for special effects. The Premingers and Hitchcocks crafted films.
I have watched this movie over a dozen times. It is an outstanding film with fine acting all around. One of Wayne's best.
Its gotten too cheap, too. The late lamented, (but not by me) "Battlestar Galactica" had commentary by Moore that for certain scenes, it was far easier and cheaper to CGI parts than "be creative".
It shows in some movies, too. And yes, "Blade Runner" has scenes in my mind that are so much better right inside there than on any screen, especially the "…shoulder of Orion/Tannhauser Gate"soliloquy.
Agreed. When they first started using CGI in a big way, they talked about being able to get things right (i.e. accurately) in a way that wasn't possible before. But instead they seem to just use these new powers as a way to do "cool" things — like they're a bunch of 10 year old boys playing with their hot rods. Gee, I never knew airplanes could occupy the same space at the same time, or pivot 180 degrees in 1 milisecond.
I've been watching Pirates of the Caribbean III on one of the movie channels. They do a great job early in the film, when they use real sets. And then at the end, they suddenly enter this CGI world that makes NO SENSE at all! Not only does it suddenly become a cartoon, but it becomes a poorly drawn cartoon. Are we all drooling idiots who need this sort of thing to be entertained? That movie would have been 80% better if they'd cut out the last 20 minutes.
Now that Warner Brothers has let the world order certain films on the one-off basis, I am so looking forward to picking up "The D.I." with Jack Webb.
I'll also bet you'll be seeing a lot more movies that are good, but break from the current mind-set of Hollyweird.
my disdain is for morons and cowards . . . that's you idiot
great, did you write this article?
kudos on your loser kids that will never move out on there own as well.
So only veterans are allowed to express admiration for the military and well-made war films? Boy, that's a new twist. We're used to the tired wheeze that supporting the war and not serving means you're a "chickenhawk." (Although we never heard "chickenhawk" from, you know, the men and women who are actually serving.) But now, Coke-Runner informs us that even liking war movies is suspect.
In the meantime, old hippies and young Obamabots get tingles in their shorts as they watch "Che" and dream of being Castro's prize hit man.
Ah yes, the liberal instinct to insult children. You do your side proud idiot. . . .
I always wait for the line, Douglas to Wayne, after the attack on Pearl Harbor, "Rock, we got us a war, a mother lovin' Navy war!"
That was an awesome speech. No effects could live up to what you visualized as he spoke. That's the great thing about knowing what not to show — something many modern directors no longer understand.
Ya know, I've been that wild about "From Here to Eternity". I can't pin point why, it's famous, I like Lancaster almost always…just can't define why.
coward? haha. thanks for the username homage as well, clever. i assume you are schizoid mann? c'mon buddy why the alias?
'21st century schizoid man' is a great song, shame i can't say the same about you.
again as i said above, nice strawman. did i say i liked 'che'? i guess you can only make good arguments against me when you make the initial assertion as well.
but to be clearer since the point seems to have gone WAY over your head, i'll say it again: "what i find lame is cheerleaders for the military they were to weak to enlist themselves. they'll cheer and want others to fight for them. you are a US citizen right? why didn't you enlist? right– you want to be an internet jockey. i understand it's way easier then putting yourself in harms way."
i of course do none of the BS posturing so you can not hurl the same arguments at me.
"Thank you so much for using your tax money to finance my VA loan on my gorgeous house! My numerous children will love it far into the future. Keep paying your share for me."
Socialist b**tard
well this guy bragging about living off taxes i paid, isn't he living in a personal nanny state? andrewprice, to bad you are a partisan ideologue otherwise you could call him a 'socialist'.
well this guy bragging about living off taxes i paid, isn't he living in a personal nanny state? andrewprice, to bad you are a partisan ideologue otherwise you could call him a 'socialist'.
What do you care about people living in a nanny state? Isn't that what you people want? That's like saying, "there is nothing wrong with being bald" but then trying to insult someone for being bald. It makes no sense.
Nor does that excuse your nasty little attack on his children.
But then, that's what we've come to expect from liberals. . .
What do you care about people living in a nanny state? Isn't that what you people want? That's like saying, "there is nothing wrong with being bald" but then trying to insult someone for being bald. It makes no sense.
Nor does that excuse your nasty little attack on his children.
But then, that's what we've come to expect from liberals. . .
Dude. The liberal troll infiltration day was YESTERDAY. I told you that new bong was gonna kick your ass, ya stoner! What are we gonna do with you? Your mother and I are thinking MILITARY SCHOOL! (By the way, she told me to tell this; she wants me to apologize to you, she said I was a little hard on the Beaver last night. wink, wink!) Say goodnight junior, oh and get a job and a haircut.
LOL!!
So thanks and gratitude for those who volunteer to run toward danger on behalf of me and my country are just "cheap points"? What's the matter kid? Mom forget the Desitin with the last diaper change? That rash gettin' to ya'?
So thanks and gratitude for those who volunteer to run toward danger on behalf of me and my country are just "cheap points"? What's the matter kid? Mom forget the Desitin with the last diaper change? That rash gettin' to ya'?
Are you getting a passing grade in your English class? The word "I" is a proper noun. It requires capitalization.
No the key part of the sentence was "like yourself" meaning "of your ilk." Most civilians are decent people, your ilk, not so much.
Well then, since you have zero time in the military, what was your weakness issue? Why didn't you enlist? Not that that has any bearing on anyone's worthiness to comment, because it doesn't, but since you want to use it as an attack point against people, what's your reasoning then?
And here I'd almost repressed the memories of that. The accuracy on the 3D models was spotty at best, but when I saw how that P-40 was maneuvering I nearly walked out of the theater. Nearly, since I wanted to see how they handled the Doolittle Raid.
Gee, I wasn't good enough to play pro football. I guess that means I can't root for the Giants anymore. And I didn't want to be a cop, so I can't applaud them either. Go read a book on how to make basic logical arguments. And get the hell out of the bathroom. What do you do in there four and five times a day? And where is your mother's National Geographic?
Yeah the entire Jack Sparrow in…wherever he was deal, was very annoying to me too. It looked like a bad rippoff of Time Bandits in places. A very, very bad ripoff.
Especially with the line,"If you could have seen the things I have seen with your eyes."
If Bladerunner were made today, we'd get an extended cheesy CGI view of everything he was speaking of, and the movie would be much poorer for it.
Just when did your Mom & Dad get the internet connection installed in their basement?
Thank You, I think so, too. Its so rare to take a twirp like you and your advocated positions and flip you on your ass with it. Nice little bounce you did at the end, too. Bet your Barry likes how it bounces.
The fun thing is the high school has my boy's career all the way to the EMRL at New Mexico Tech mapped out for him. They love how he moves the bell curves right, (positive), over their usual "destroyed lives" kids they normally enroll from "helpful Government Programs." The irony is, he gets them more money by bringing up the scores, you see. You'll get to pay for him, too, all those scholarships and internships. and grants. He wants to build "brilliant" bombs for Uncle Sugar, that can sniff out a particular terrorist by body odor, and then send him off to Paradise and his seventy-two virgins of Michael Moore. You'll get to pay for that as well. Isn't he great?
Love it when Douglas slaps O'neal's face in the washroom.
Opinions vary.
Now that was downright hilarious! Good job James.
Yeah, my better than average interest rates, my veteran's property tax exemption, my savings on almost all kinds of things.
Two things: While you were passing around the roach clip, I was learning to pull a wounded GI out of whatever situation he was in, stabilize him, keep him alive, and get him back home. I would be doing this while the same situation that caused the wounds would be raging around me, and doing it with a holstered .45 at best, because I can't hold an artery closed with one hand and run off a popgun with the other.
Two: Your friends did all this for me thinking I would keep their soft, sorry backsides in power.
Lo siento, pendejo. You picked the wrong friends.
I had it near the top of my list in a blog we did here a few weeks back. One of the things I liked best about the movie had nothing to do with the acting. Some of those scenes with the dark and the fog and wondering where the enemy was were nail-biters. But my favorite scene was Douglas slapping around the sneaky p.r. officer who was reporting back to "play it safe" Dana Andrews.
Think about what else they would change if they remade it today. Hold on, I think I'm channeling a Hollywood producer. . .
1. Can't do a movie like this without wire fights and huge CGI explosions.
2. Deckard needs to be a martial arts expert — none of this average guy crap. Same with Sean Young, and she needs leather. In fact, they all need more leather, tight leather.
3. Rutger Hauer's version of Roy is too subdued. He should be more like Al Pacino in Devil's Advocate.
4. The replicants need to step up their game, maybe they can threaten to blow up the world. Right now the plot just doesn't excite me.
5. Why doesn't Deckard have a wisecracking young black partner?
6. Where are my flying car chases. . . I was promised flying car chases.
7. Too many words, international audiences might not like it.
8. Needs more nudity and swearing to make it real. . . gritty.
9. The audience should get to see the replicants brutally kill dozens of people.
Ouch, my soul hurts now.
"Ouch, my soul hurts now."
As well it should! You just wracked up some seriously bad karma there. Unfortunately you're 100% right, so I hope they never, ever consider doing a remake of Bladerunner.
(although Sean Young in more leather isn't a bad idea either really)
The troll has a brilliant understanding of economics, doesn't he? You serve your country so pipsqueaks like him can insult you. Then you get a VA loan (which the little bastard doesn't seem to understand is a guaranteed bank loan, not a gift), you pay your mortgage and your taxes and raise your children. Ergo, you are a hypocritical tax-sucking socialist welfare recipient. Well, at least he does a good job of explaining Obamanomics.
I am a US Navy VET. and besides the few already mentioned some of my faves are: "The Enemy Below" with Mitchum and Curt Jurgens, great movie. "The Gallant Hours" with Cagney as Bull Halsey. I own and love "In Harms Way" and don't mind the "old school" effects, although I think the movie could have been tightened up by 10 or 15 minutes. It is a bit slow in a few parts. I actually talked with Paula Prentiss once about acting with the Duke in the radar station scene.
Ok. I like film.
Godspeed.
The End.
PS: sorry, if you don't like my style, (thankfully the president does, well former president anyway) I suggest you don't read any more of my work. They'll all be similarly lacking the wit you require to remain entertained. Life is short; don't read what you don't like.
Btw, at the risk of further infuriating you with more wordiness, Polonius doesn't get to that line until the second act! And he was considered a fool. I generally try to avoid taking advice from fools whether fictional or otherwise.
I'm not sure I understand what your point/argument is. Please expand on it. Let's speculate about the point you might be making. Bear with me, I get long-winded.
Here we go:
Are you saying that those who did not serve, cannot honor those who did?
If so, then how can you honor a president if you have not been one yourself?
How can you honor MLK if you're not a black civil rights leader yourself?
How can you honor Karl Marx if you've never had a talking scene in Duck Soup?
No? You didn't mean that. Ok. How about this?
Are you saying that those who did not serve, have no right to enjoy films about those who did?
If so, then can you explain why you might like Star Wars, never having been an intergalactic pirate or farm boy on a desert planet or princess with two buns on her head?
Wrong again? Ok, don't give up on me. Let's try one more:
Are you saying that those who did not serve have no right to voice an opinion about the subject at all?
If so, then your right to voice one, by your own logic, is null and void.
And I can stop now. Thanks for that. It was fun.
Btw, not that it matters, since obviously you are baiting folks here by your clear out-of-the-gate antagonism, which we don't mind, but it does get a bit boring, but if you read my other pieces and those of other contributors, you'd come to realize that we vets are very numerous on this site, indeed. Though, it must be noted we're not usually blowing our own horns about it, so it might not be blatantly obvious.
For every one person who mentions it, there are about twenty others who don't. Just a trivial bit of information. But one which might explain some things for you here.
Now, you can get back to dealing with your hard-on.
Good luck. We're all counting on you.
I appreciate your service.
Indeed. Same here, obviously. I have to say, I've seen some footage on YouTube – city stuff and Holden's hospital iron lung scene – from the new DVD release and it really made me think. Because by itself, it's good footage. But, now that I know that film like the back of my hand, I don't want that footage. It's not Blade Runner, in my mind. I don't agree with going back and tinkering, either. (Don't get me started on Director's cuts;)
But with the film I am working on, I have so many shots that I absolutely adore, that if included run the time up and maybe even slow the pace like those beauty shots that were eventually cut from Blade Runner's original theatrical release.
Kill your darlings, as they say.
Ridley and his editors did that. At the time knew enough to cut what they didn't need even if it was beautiful. The studio also imposed things that I think were beneficial to the story (the dreaded V.O.). Ridley hated it, so did many. I love it. It's a bit rough, and Harrison intentionally did it poorly, but it's needed. Not for info, but for the noir esque quality of the story and setting. It's a redo of all the great noirs, only in the future. Future Noir. So, the clunky V.O. is fitting IMHO.
But I understand that it's a taste thing, as is the Deckard is replicant story line, which is dumb, I think. It was better when it was ambiguous, when we weren't sure if the tin foil unicorn meant Gaf knew Deck was a replicant, or that the unicorn was meant to symbolize Rachel and her uniqueness. Either way, it meant, he'd not chase them. They were free.
Also, with Deckard being human it's a story about a soulless man being taught about compassion and humanity by machines. Far, far better and more interesting, than Robots in Love, which is what it has become w/ the declaration by Ridley that Deck is a Rep. Oh, well. The film is a masterpiece. I just wish they'd leave it the F alone.
Sometimes even the creators need to be kept away from their work. Even Picasso was known to trash his own stuff
Excellent. Thanks for your service (I'm starting to sound like George Noory – also former Navy.)
How did you like They Were Expendable?
-smann
Great flick. On a related note, I saw Tribes many years ago on TV. Wow. Earl Holliman, Jan M. Vincent and the wonderful Darren McGavin, rest his soul. Check it out if you haven't seen it already.
You mean, 'not' wild about, right? If that's what you mean, I agree with you. I prefer many others to that. But I'm still glad it was made.
You mean, 'not' wild about, right? If that's what you mean, I agree with you. I prefer many others to that. But I'm still glad it was made.
Oh my gosh! It's Hunter S or was it D, I forgot now. My long-lost first heckler to my first piece here at BH!! You're back!! How the heck are ya, buddy? So nice to see you. But, please, try some other phrases. You've used one of those waaaay too much. And get an account, for goodness sakes!! It's painless and a lot of fun. You'll thank me in the end. I just know it.
I wrote it, but, like I said, I'm not sure what your argument is.
I'm wiling to entertain a debate on the subject, if you like, or discuss the film itself. Or recommend another if this was a disappointment.
But I'm a NO GO for a name calling exchange. It's pointless and besides, it's just so…90s! And we can do better than that in entertaining the folks here, can't we? I'm willing to try. Go for it. Fire away!
PS: Though I do request an absence of put downs, I have no such restriction on poor spelling, bad grammar (which is actually ungrammatical) or lack of punctuation. This is a comment/forum thread and creative spelling and Kerouac punctuation are just fine by me.
I love this. Great stuff. Yeah, #9 reminds me, that descrip in act I where Bryant relates the fill in, 'slaughtered the crew and passengers' and 'one got fried running through an electrical field' are both phrases I didn't need to look up. I'll bet they're pretty darn close to the actual line, if not perfect. (insert CU of self patting on back)
Yet, if they filmed those, particularly in CG, I'd bet, I would have forgotten them, having blended in with the rest of the forest of nonsilent and fallen from different angles computer effects.
Since it was just related to use by Bryant, in a very matter of fact way, very cop-like. (if I may say so, not having been a cop, but having watched all episodes of Barney Miller many times before the acronym DVD was thrust into being) His dry description has stayed with me for these many years since I first saw it.
I recall Terry Guilliam once stating that his childhood spent listening to Radio Drama such as X minus 1, Dimension X, Suspense, Lights Out, etc, forged in him, a very strong imagination which has inspired his many outrageous and outlandish creations on film. I can relate to that.
Agreed.
That is a fun scene. I love how they flip the coin and you don't know what it was for yet. Afterwards, you can't help but wonder, was ol' Burgy gonna throw a slap? I don't think so. Maybe they each had their own 'technique' for leaning on the guy. We only got to see Kirk's.
Enemy Below. Wonderful drama. Star Trek's early episode Balance of Terror lovingly borrowed much of the spirit of the drama from that fine film. Mitch and Curt were both fantastic. That 'mistake' with the depth charge catapult, oy vey! Rough one.
Right. Paula does a fine job in that radio shak spotter scene. Can you recall anything she said about it? I'm sure some folks here, me for one, would love to hear some small bit of trivia on it. I love stuff like that (but only after I've seen the movie three or four hundred times.
Thanks.
I know it's not the same thing, but what is your opinion of the CG use in the History Channel series Dog Fight? I kind of like it, since it's not trying to 'be' real footage, but simulate it.
It's such a good series that I'm a bit biased as well.
I'm having trouble with the reply gremlins, so I'll just put this moment here.
This is to Dubya's-Coke-Runner:
I'll try to answer your questions.
Why the pen name Schizoid Mann? King Crimson? Nope. But nice call, though a little too obvious for me to use. You're not the first to suggest it. No, the reason I chose this pen name, well, to borrow from Edmond Rostand, is my secret. But it goes back before King Crimson's song. It has meaning for me, as yours, I assume has meaning for you.
Why a pen name at all? Well, I'm a working professional. In several professions, as luck would have it. One of them is showbiz. You may actually have heard of me, and maybe, possibly even have seen me, maybe not, who knows? I can't say for sure, since I don't know who you are. Anyway, that kind of bragging is irrelevant. What is relevant is the blacklist that exists in Hollywood of late. Unfortunately, I've experienced it first hand, slightly, and have thankfully gone undamaged so far, but only just, and by the skin of my teeth.
I've learned my lesson. I've also seen others not so lucky, more involved, more outspoken, and yes, much more famous, become tarnished, attacked and basically out of work due to this nameless dread that has infested Hollywood of late. I don't wish to repeat their tale.
So rather than allow others to destroy my exciting and very budding career that I can destroy perfectly well on my own, I've decided to use a pen name here at BH and thus be able to write what I wish to write without fear or favor, until Hollywood comes to its senses, if ever. I personally think it will. And I'd like to make a difference, a contribution to the greater good, if you will to that effect. Hence my presence here.
Ok, next, get an account.
If you continue to post comments without so much as an account with Intense Debate or Open ID or anything where some responsibility, some accountability is required, then no one is going to take you seriously. You'll remain as a amusing object, the subject of ridicule or the purveyor of it. Either way, it's a big waste of time. So, get an account. That way, we'll know that the person we're replying to is the same person who commented on (insert thread/post/article). Also, you'll be in for some goodies, such as being able to see all the comments you've made, let others see them and subscribe to your comments, see the replies to your comments and get email notifications and even have your comments rated (though I'm not crazy about this, since my score is way too low!).
For future reference, I always reply to all comments to me on my articles here at BH. Always. And I always reply as Schizoid Mann. Never anything else. (heck, I want those points!) My little balaclava pic will be there (unless I change it) and linked to my IntenseDebate account and my Big Hollywood page. If they don't link, it ain't me. Period.
I won't reply if that individual is unregistered. Aha! Another incentive! We ignore those generally. This rather lengthy comment here is the last one you'll receive from me, unless you register.
I welcome all debates and discussions about the subject matter and not, no matter what tangent it goes on, as long as it stays somewhat civil. I care not for spelling or punctuation perfection. Be as Kerouac as you like. ignore keys that don't have letters on them, whatever. It doesn't matter to me. Content matters to me. Easy on the vulgarity, not just for my innocent eyes, but for moderation. That bot is pretty finicky. So, again, why waste your time with vulgarity if no one is going to see it? (I'll bet every flasher has said this to himself at one time or another)
BH is read by many people, trust me. MANY people! And not just by people who use caps lock a lot, either! So, let your voice be an important one, a worthy one. Worthy of their time and mine, and yours. You have a pretty good audience here, make that, pretty darn great audience. So, make it good. Let the verse you choose ring true at least to another soul out there. Otherwise, what is it, really? What are you doing with your precious time? Are these minutes you wish to throw away forever in such a frivolous manner? You don't. Life's too short. It really is. So think about that.
And while we're at it, why the hostility in your comments? If it's in defense, I can kind of understand it, and maybe excuse it. But toward me, the writer of this piece, you direct anger when it's unwarranted and unprovoked unless you consider an article on the beauty of a particular film a provocation, a direct attack on you. If so, I suggest Deepak Chopra or Krishnamurti. Both very soothing reads. Deepak is even on audio book. I recommend it. He's got a great voice for the subject matter.
I don't care what political views you have, if any. I really don't. But if you have something to say, that is interesting, and maybe even profound, I'm all ears.
Hope this was helpful.
AW, Schiz, thanks, but I really don't deserve, bro.
I was a punk 18 yo. that had way too much arrogance and self love, and desperately needed a job I couldn't be easily fired from. This was the beginning of the experiment of the "all volunteer" Army, and though not ethnically qualified, I was definitely the guy some Congresscritters say has to join up to survive. Fortunately for both of us, I learn really quickly, and both the Army and I prospered.
I can't even conceive of anything but all volunteer now; who wants a troll in the Army? The one who was in the room next door to me was a total fail as a soldier, loud music at all hours, failing training grades, and a bad pot habit, (remember, this was before testing). Carl couldn't wrap his mind around honoring his word. I hope he figured it out.
I accept everyone's appreciation as heartfelt, but to me and mine, those folks that stand up and hook up nowadays are the real strac hardcore heroes. I got out after my six because I couldn't get any more advance training as a Reservist; they wouldn't let me go to active duty to get around it, (even after begging up and down the Chain of Command), even though I had the skill and grades to do the advanced jobs, because I couldn't get released from my home unit, being too "mission critical" for that slovenly bunch, (a Catch-22 if ever I saw one); and I had married and begun my wonderful family.
These outstanding men and women have all that and more, and the strain of keeping it all going straight and narrow, and STILL sign up over and over to protect me and my family. I can never, never be able to thank them or repay them for what they do for me and mine, and I am struck dumb and humbled by such steel as what they are made of.
All I can do is strip trolls naked and dump them out on Arctic ice, and I get some small satisfaction for doing that for a troop that can't be here.
PS: "Dammit, Janet" Neapolitano, you are unfit for licking animal bowel leavings from the boots of these heroes and heroines. They don' have to cause havoc in the heartland with weapons, (though they certainly can do that; they are marvelously skilled in the application of controlled violence). They will simply throw you, your patronizing sycophants, and the kommissar out on their ears when the time comes. Their memories are long, and their records in voting clear. I hope you never find work ever again.
Jeff Goldblum in "The Big Chill" had advise on the length of an article that may be of use to you. As you say, life is short. I shall save my precious time by reading more pithy writings in the future. BTW, John Wayne underplayed his role in "In Harms Way", allowing other actors, especially Patricia Neal, to shine.
You really are a stupid little pissant aren't you? I suppose that with the education you had/have/are getting and those you hang with have/had/are your inanity and ignorance passes for intelligent conversation.
You liked the voice over too? Thanks, I thought I was the only one, man! And almost for the same reasons, although I find with certain Sci-Fi, a VO gives some viewers a level to ground to before they have to take off to "parts unknown."
Seriously, leaving the "Decard is/ Deckard is not" subtexture ambiguous, let's viewers draw conclusions based on their own experience, especially if its subtle. Would Gaf? (Would Gaf what? Even that was up in the air in my mind.) "Blade Runner" was a window into the human experience, and if they were ever allowed to tinker with it, the only thing that should be done is to take the hard "dating" information out and maybe add in the beauty shots. The thing would then become timeless forever, even when we actually had a Spinner in the driveway, and spoke pigdin English, Spanish, and Chinese blended together.
Please, don't get me started on Lucas' "Star Wars" revisions… we'd NEVER LEAVE!
I remember the TV movie very well, actually; the sand buckets made a real impact with me. I had a sensei who was seriously into visualization and meditation as part of the school, and sitting zazen sounds so easy, until you actually try to do it.
There are days when I go back to those moments, pull them forward into my consciousness, and seek out the quiet as I try to deal with things. It helps.
One of my favorite movies, and one which I have a connection to, in fact. Glad you liked it.
But, I'll have to pass on the length that is suggested by the character Michael, man of the "People" in that wonderful scene, seeing as 1. That's fairly difficult with a laptop, though I've never tried it. And 2. Not sure we're aiming for the same market that he was instructed to, though I have a feeling you'll have something to say about that.
I loved his character, but still, for me Kevin Kline was the most fun.
Definitely one of Larry Kasdan's great works.
Peace. Btw, I love your moniker. Another great character.
- Schizoid Mann (Not to be confused with Pithy Mann)
Yeah, I spoke w/ Doug Trumbull on the anachronisms and such of Blade Runner. Funny, he worked on 2001, you probably recall. (He actually pioneered the split screen technique which allowed for that groovy star gate sequence of David Bowman's and the later ABC 4:30 Movie). Anyway, 2001 had Ma Bell, Pan Am and Howard Johnsons. Blade Runner had Atari and Pan Am. He joked that you take a chance when you decide on what current icon to include hoping it will last. Pan Am was a no brainer, which turned out to be, whoops, we did need brains, after all!
Because they (Pan Am) had originally foreseen a Metropolis type trans system in NYC. The Pan Am building itself has/had an air terminal on the roof for helicopters, not a heliport, a terminal. It was envisioned that air transport would mirror ground transport in big cities, with the skies being used by average people going from building to building in helicopter 'busses'.
Alas, never happened. But both Kubrick and Scott along with Doug thought it was on the way for sure.
Oh, man. Have trouble myself. 1 hour max before serious regrets start forming in the tea leaves.
Yeah, I humbly tried to play on that in the article above if you look for "Chew's eyes" you'll see it. Hope folks caught that attempt.
You know, it took me about 10 readings to realize what a pissant was. I'm reading it like a french bread pastry for goodness sakes! Lol!
Personally I love the stuff on Dogfights, the models are pretty good and they put the time and effort into making the planes move as they should. They do a pretty good job with ships too, the Taffy destroyer runs against the Imperial Japanese Fleet near the Philippines was a good, and offbeat, episode as well in my opinion.
It is a very good series in my opinion, more importantly my soon to be father-in-law loves it. He's retired now, but he's flown combat in F-4s and F-15s, and he's said that computer graphics aside it looks just how he remembered it. So that's good enough in my book.
I really hate it when Nick copies me then uses his time machine to go back and say it first.
I have and my comment stands. You seem to demand that an admiration for the military can only be accomplished by membership in the military. I have no problem whatsoever with someone choosing not to serve in the military. There is no longer a draft. It is FREE CHOICE. That is one of the fundamental preceps of this nation that we who choose to, enlist for. Someone has to do it. What I cannot understand is barely concealed ridicule for those who choose not to yet admire those who do. Standing by principles do not require military membership. I can also understand someone's possible doubt in themselves whether or not they could hack it. A valid point of introspection. I would however have a huge case of the ass over someone who was drafted and chose to avoid on disingenuous terms.
I have and my comment stands. You seem to demand that an admiration for the military can only be accomplished by membership in the military. I have no problem whatsoever with someone choosing not to serve in the military. There is no longer a draft. It is FREE CHOICE. That is one of the fundamental preceps of this nation that we who choose to, enlist for. Someone has to do it. What I cannot understand is barely concealed ridicule for those who choose not to yet admire those who do. Standing by principles do not require military membership. I can also understand someone's possible doubt in themselves whether or not they could hack it. A valid point of introspection. I would however have a huge case of the ass over someone who was drafted and chose to avoid on disingenuous terms.
a GUT BUSTIN, MOTHER LOVIN NAVY WAR!!! Yeah James, I love that line.
Exactly, I need to add one of those anti-gravity units to my Jeep. Hell, I'd never get stuck.
Hey Sman, I am replying to your response to me RE: CGI. It's funny. I was thinking about "Dogfights" when I posted that. Dogfights, to me (having flown in T-28, T-34, P-51 ((orgasm)), F-4N, UH-1, CH-46/53, C-130/141/5 and a few more) is very accurate. The graphics engine looks like the same one used in Flight Sim/Combat Flight Sim only with a much higher frame rate. If they could improve the final appearance of the aircraft, that is what they should use. I wonder how much CGI was used in Saving Pvt. Ryan. The -51 sequence at the end looks very accurate. The Tuskeegee Airman film was great. also. God, I cannot remember the name of that just now.
From what I remember she was a bit intimidated by Preminger (as was everyone except Wayne) and was in awe of the Duke. If memory serves, he was great towards her, that scene would have been tough for any actress and she was wonderful.
Now, on to this comment. I hope you are right about Hollywood. The law of averages and the human survival instinct would suggest that a great many more of the supposed liberals don't really espouse the views they pretend to. They do it to work, pure and simple. You have no idea how great it is to interact here with like minded (no libs, I am not being myopic) individuals in the industry. It gives one hope amidst a sea of lunacy. Thanks, for what all you guys do.
Burgess Merideth: "Enjoy it, Commander!"
Beat me to it, SMan. Enemy Below. Excellent, excellent movie. Little known fact, I think. There is a 1-2 second cameo of Clint Eastwood, or looks like him, when he is responding to GQ from the "Magazines". Can any of you guys confirm that? We were partying, with that on VHS one night, and watched it over and over. Ok, libs party with "Driving Miss Daisy", I party with The Enemy Below", heh, sue me! That and the first half of "Full Metal Jacket"……yeeesh….flashbacks…..
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