Comments on: Do The Warhol—Part 4: The Manhattan Project of the Culture War http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sgraves/2009/07/26/do-the-warhol-conclusions-the-manhattan-project-of-the-culture-war/ Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:58:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Hucbald http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sgraves/2009/07/26/do-the-warhol-conclusions-the-manhattan-project-of-the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-613762 Hucbald Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:18:59 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=184822#comment-613762 It's the negative, stinkin' thinkin' hyper-critical mindset that I object to. After all, it's only natural for artists to self-segregate to one degree or another based upon their likes and dislikes. That's just human nature in action. But when that understandable human filtering morphs into a condescending and dismissive attitude toward anything and everything that is different from what is in your little bailiwick, then you're dealing with unhealthy conceit that is usually, I think, based on fear of what you don't understand and, perhaps more importantly, can't do yourself. As per usual when human beings are involved, jealousy is what's usually at the root of it. It's the negative, stinkin' thinkin' hyper-critical mindset that I object to. After all, it's only natural for artists to self-segregate to one degree or another based upon their likes and dislikes. That's just human nature in action. But when that understandable human filtering morphs into a condescending and dismissive attitude toward anything and everything that is different from what is in your little bailiwick, then you're dealing with unhealthy conceit that is usually, I think, based on fear of what you don't understand and, perhaps more importantly, can't do yourself. As per usual when human beings are involved, jealousy is what's usually at the root of it.

]]> By: Frances http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sgraves/2009/07/26/do-the-warhol-conclusions-the-manhattan-project-of-the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-611994 Frances Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:16:17 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=184822#comment-611994 In many ways , Colin, you are right. I consider myself somewhere between the designations of big and little L Libertarian. I disagree on the points of closed borders and military intervention, making some Libertarians as angry at me as the Liberals and Republicans. I think one of the biggest challenges we face, regardless of our core philosophy is the larger perception people have of us. Those of us who are truly Conservative prefer to leave others to their own designs. Consequently, the louser fringe portions of the Conservative movement have made themselves the mascot for our views, making us susceptible to stereotypes and derision. I would say that most Conservatives tend toward Libertarianism, but shy away for a few reasons we must address. 1. We have allowed ourselves to be painted as pot heads and anarchists. 2. Republicans, who are often big government counterparts to the Liberal competition, are more mainstream. They have convinced people that because they call themselves Conservative, we should accept their pork spending, corruption, nepotism, et al because the alternative is a Liberal controlled nanny state. 3. It is a weakness of human character that most of us feel a need to fit in. Stepping out of the clique to vote for a third party is inconceivable to most people. Until we address these issues and submit some viable solutions, we will continue to loose the battle for America. That is why I think it is vital for us to address these issues through the arts and entertainment industries. We need to approach young people on their level and get a message out there they can understand and relate to. The Liberals make their agenda look trendy and hip, and the kids eat it up without looking beneath the surface. In many ways , Colin, you are right. I consider myself somewhere between the designations of big and little L Libertarian. I disagree on the points of closed borders and military intervention, making some Libertarians as angry at me as the Liberals and Republicans. I think one of the biggest challenges we face, regardless of our core philosophy is the larger perception people have of us. Those of us who are truly Conservative prefer to leave others to their own designs. Consequently, the louser fringe portions of the Conservative movement have made themselves the mascot for our views, making us susceptible to stereotypes and derision. I would say that most Conservatives tend toward Libertarianism, but shy away for a few reasons we must address.
1. We have allowed ourselves to be painted as pot heads and anarchists. 2. Republicans, who are often big government counterparts to the Liberal competition, are more mainstream. They have convinced people that because they call themselves Conservative, we should accept their pork spending, corruption, nepotism, et al because the alternative is a Liberal controlled nanny state. 3. It is a weakness of human character that most of us feel a need to fit in. Stepping out of the clique to vote for a third party is inconceivable to most people.
Until we address these issues and submit some viable solutions, we will continue to loose the battle for America. That is why I think it is vital for us to address these issues through the arts and entertainment industries. We need to approach young people on their level and get a message out there they can understand and relate to. The Liberals make their agenda look trendy and hip, and the kids eat it up without looking beneath the surface.

]]> By: Colin K http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sgraves/2009/07/26/do-the-warhol-conclusions-the-manhattan-project-of-the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-611562 Colin K Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:41:16 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=184822#comment-611562 The fatal flaw I see in this plan is that in the culture today, the biggest threat to individual freedom is perceived to come from the Christian Right rather than the Progressive Left. Personally, I'd love to see the GOP pick up the Liberty banner with real feeling--let's talk about tax cuts and guns for sure, but also about drug legalization, incarceration rates of young black men, and why government helps drive up the cost of college. The Republican Party was a radical party once, long long ago, and perhaps it can rediscover that side. I'm skeptical. The fatal flaw I see in this plan is that in the culture today, the biggest threat to individual freedom is perceived to come from the Christian Right rather than the Progressive Left.

Personally, I'd love to see the GOP pick up the Liberty banner with real feeling–let's talk about tax cuts and guns for sure, but also about drug legalization, incarceration rates of young black men, and why government helps drive up the cost of college. The Republican Party was a radical party once, long long ago, and perhaps it can rediscover that side. I'm skeptical.

]]> By: Colin W http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sgraves/2009/07/26/do-the-warhol-conclusions-the-manhattan-project-of-the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-611474 Colin W Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:01:34 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=184822#comment-611474 Talk Radio was a new and devastating asymmetrical technology in 1994, but it maxed out its influence a decade ago. Now we're in the H-bomb era of the Internet, and the best we can say there is that we're not getting crushed. Talk Radio was a new and devastating asymmetrical technology in 1994, but it maxed out its influence a decade ago. Now we're in the H-bomb era of the Internet, and the best we can say there is that we're not getting crushed.

]]> By: Tennessee_Jed http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sgraves/2009/07/26/do-the-warhol-conclusions-the-manhattan-project-of-the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-609286 Tennessee_Jed Mon, 27 Jul 2009 10:55:06 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=184822#comment-609286 One of the things I take away from this series is to lend my economic support to those I believe in particularly when they are struggling to gain broader distribution. In recessionary times, we are all likely watching our discretionary spending. While I have always disliked not engaging art simply because I disagree with the artist, I am already starting to do things like support folks such as Chris Burgard, Jack Ellstrom, and John Ziegler that deserve a wider audience. If that somehow means in tougher economic times not supporting the likes of Meryl Streep and Sean Penn with whom I disagree even though they are talented, it is a compromise I can easily live with. BTW - nice video of John Cale and Lou Reid. One of my favorite singer/songwriters J.J. Cale is also John Cale. Early in his career, he was playing in L.A. and Velvet Underground had just been there, so he was told he could not use "John Cale" as a stage name so he became known as J.J. Cale. Seeing the above video reminded me of J.J., so I've linked to a nice video of this artist, 10 years to the day my senior. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8uk7vlk0sE&feature=r...</a>" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8uk7vlk0sE&feature=r...</a>" target="_blank">www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8uk7vlk0sE&feature=r...</a></a> One of the things I take away from this series is to lend my economic support to those I believe in particularly when they are struggling to gain broader distribution. In recessionary times, we are all likely watching our discretionary spending. While I have always disliked not engaging art simply because I disagree with the artist, I am already starting to do things like support folks such as Chris Burgard, Jack Ellstrom, and John Ziegler that deserve a wider audience. If that somehow means in tougher economic times not supporting the likes of Meryl Streep and Sean Penn with whom I disagree even though they are talented, it is a compromise I can easily live with.

BTW – nice video of John Cale and Lou Reid. One of my favorite singer/songwriters J.J. Cale is also John Cale. Early in his career, he was playing in L.A. and Velvet Underground had just been there, so he was told he could not use "John Cale" as a stage name so he became known as J.J. Cale. Seeing the above video reminded me of J.J., so I've linked to a nice video of this artist, 10 years to the day my senior.

<a href=”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8uk7vlk0sE&feature=r…” target=”_blank”>www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8uk7vlk0sE&feature=r…

]]> By: Tennessee_Jed http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sgraves/2009/07/26/do-the-warhol-conclusions-the-manhattan-project-of-the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-610686 Tennessee_Jed Mon, 27 Jul 2009 03:44:25 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=184822#comment-610686 That is a very interesting comment, Huc. Thanks for sharing. While I don't completely disregard the notionthat certain relatively objective academic guidelines can be used as a guide in critiquing music, arbitrary rules about what is or not acceptable is ultimately a losing proposition. There really is something to the notion that listeners are the ultimate judge. You may compose and play a piece and I may enjoy it. If so we connect on a level that actually transcends any arbitrary restrictions placed on your music by others. While reading your comments, I couldn't help of thinking about the outcry from the "folk" community when Dylan first picked up an electric guitar. Now, I am the first to admit at times I think many of Dylan's songs are better when performed by others, but by no means does that apply to all or even most. Either way, economically and popularly wise, he certainly had the laugh last didn't he? That is a very interesting comment, Huc. Thanks for sharing. While I don't completely disregard the notionthat certain relatively objective academic guidelines can be used as a guide in critiquing music, arbitrary rules about what is or not acceptable is ultimately a losing proposition. There really is something to the notion that listeners are the ultimate judge. You may compose and play a piece and I may enjoy it. If so we connect on a level that actually transcends any arbitrary restrictions placed on your music by others.

While reading your comments, I couldn't help of thinking about the outcry from the "folk" community when Dylan first picked up an electric guitar. Now, I am the first to admit at times I think many of Dylan's songs are better when performed by others, but by no means does that apply to all or even most. Either way, economically and popularly wise, he certainly had the laugh last didn't he?

]]> By: StanH http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sgraves/2009/07/26/do-the-warhol-conclusions-the-manhattan-project-of-the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-610350 StanH Mon, 27 Jul 2009 01:18:05 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=184822#comment-610350 You may or may not take it as a complement Jimmy, but …on BH I always like what you have to say and we are of like minds, but. No we won’t operate like the Jackson’s or Sharpton’s of this country, …we’ll do it better because there’s some real a$$ in what we say, and our love of country, freedom, liberty will be an easy sell, and not to be overly dramatic, …but if not now when. As Scott stated in his “tight-- in-the-pocket,” …expose’ we must regain control of not only Pop Culture, but we also IMO gotta grab the country by the ball$, in a Free Market Society that means the money. That is the ultimate arbiter of who wins in the USA. This country is at a very dark precipice, and we must join the fight, or watch the America that we grew up in, …perish. You may or may not take it as a complement Jimmy, but …on BH I always like what you have to say and we are of like minds, but. No we won’t operate like the Jackson’s or Sharpton’s of this country, …we’ll do it better because there’s some real a$$ in what we say, and our love of country, freedom, liberty will be an easy sell, and not to be overly dramatic, …but if not now when. As Scott stated in his “tight– in-the-pocket,” …expose’ we must regain control of not only Pop Culture, but we also IMO gotta grab the country by the ball$, in a Free Market Society that means the money. That is the ultimate arbiter of who wins in the USA. This country is at a very dark precipice, and we must join the fight, or watch the America that we grew up in, …perish.

]]> By: Hucbald http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sgraves/2009/07/26/do-the-warhol-conclusions-the-manhattan-project-of-the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-610274 Hucbald Mon, 27 Jul 2009 01:00:17 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=184822#comment-610274 I have a toe in the world of classical guitar because I play solo nylon string (And a few standard repertoire classical pieces), but I'm considered by the purists to be... well, impure - iconoclastic really - because I play electric nylon string guitars with digital effects and even MIDI and synthesizers. I was invited to join one of these groups - I don't know why - and I posted there that I thought many mainstream classical guitarists were so up-tight that their butts squeaked when they walked. It really is a very restricted world where there are arbiters of what is and is not artistically acceptable, and those who deviate from the accepted path are derided and expelled. In that sense, I pointed out, traditional classical guitarists are ultra-conservative and akin to religious fundamentalists. I concluded by pointing out that any musician who is not a radical libertarian individualist isn't a fully developed moral, spiritual, ethical, political, or artistic agent and that Jesus, if you bother to actually try to understand the mission of His ministry, was a small-l libertarian by the current modern definition. I actually got a friend request out of that, but just one. LOL! The classical guitar world isn't unique, of course, in fact it is emblematic of the art world at large, which is fractured into many cliques with their own rules for what is and is not acceptable to be considered a member of the group. Not astonishingly, these groups don't produce great artists, despite their numbers. I have a toe in the world of classical guitar because I play solo nylon string (And a few standard repertoire classical pieces), but I'm considered by the purists to be… well, impure – iconoclastic really – because I play electric nylon string guitars with digital effects and even MIDI and synthesizers. I was invited to join one of these groups – I don't know why – and I posted there that I thought many mainstream classical guitarists were so up-tight that their butts squeaked when they walked.

It really is a very restricted world where there are arbiters of what is and is not artistically acceptable, and those who deviate from the accepted path are derided and expelled. In that sense, I pointed out, traditional classical guitarists are ultra-conservative and akin to religious fundamentalists. I concluded by pointing out that any musician who is not a radical libertarian individualist isn't a fully developed moral, spiritual, ethical, political, or artistic agent and that Jesus, if you bother to actually try to understand the mission of His ministry, was a small-l libertarian by the current modern definition. I actually got a friend request out of that, but just one. LOL!

The classical guitar world isn't unique, of course, in fact it is emblematic of the art world at large, which is fractured into many cliques with their own rules for what is and is not acceptable to be considered a member of the group. Not astonishingly, these groups don't produce great artists, despite their numbers.

]]> By: Frances http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sgraves/2009/07/26/do-the-warhol-conclusions-the-manhattan-project-of-the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-610254 Frances Mon, 27 Jul 2009 00:44:45 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=184822#comment-610254 I look forward to it. I always find inspiration in dealing with other artists. I know my opinions are not always welcome in forums about art and social issues, but I find I always walk away with ideas. I know I often offend people, but we can't understand each other if we don't share our opinions. Besides, if I can handle being called a fascist, other artists should be able to handle my assertion that the government shouldn't fund art. I'm sure the discussion at MOCA GA will be fun on many levels. If any of the readers live in Atlanta, I encourage them to join us. I look forward to it. I always find inspiration in dealing with other artists. I know my opinions are not always welcome in forums about art and social issues, but I find I always walk away with ideas. I know I often offend people, but we can't understand each other if we don't share our opinions. Besides, if I can handle being called a fascist, other artists should be able to handle my assertion that the government shouldn't fund art.
I'm sure the discussion at MOCA GA will be fun on many levels. If any of the readers live in Atlanta, I encourage them to join us.

]]> By: Marilena http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/sgraves/2009/07/26/do-the-warhol-conclusions-the-manhattan-project-of-the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-610174 Marilena Mon, 27 Jul 2009 00:10:29 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=184822#comment-610174 This has been a very thought-provoking series, Mr. Graves. I've gotten a lot from it ......and also from the comments. This has been a very thought-provoking series, Mr. Graves. I've gotten a lot from it ……and also from the comments.

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