When Rap Lyrics Become Reality
by Michael van der Galien
Not only do hip-hop artists promote sexually perverse behavior, disrespect towards women and violence, they seem to believe that living in accordance to these ‘values’ is quite all right:
Just a day after an interview with Chris Brown’s father appeared on People.com, the magazine has published an interview with Rihanna’s father, Ronald Fenty.
Fenty reportedly told the magazine that when he first heard about her alleged altercation with Chris Brown, “I didn’t believe it. I know my daughter,” he said, adding about Brown, “You think you know somebody, but you really don’t.”
The alleged incident took place before the Grammy Awards last Sunday. Brown was arrested and released on bail; Rihanna is reportedly cooperating with police…
On Friday, the magazine published an interview with Brown’s biological father, Clinton Brown.
“He’s reflecting on this situation,” Brown said of his son. “He’s very remorseful. He’s very concerned about the situation and he wants to make sure that [Rihanna's] OK. This is unfortunate, this stumble, this situation,” Brown added. “Hopefully, he will get past it. We all have our shortcomings. We all trip.”
Notice how MTV doesn’t bother quoting anyone outraged at Brown for beating up his girlfriend. The strongest condemnation they could find is, “You think you know somebody, but you really don’t.” And let’s not even talk about Brown’s father who considers beating up a woman ”a shortcoming,” and explains it all away with, “We all trip.”
Brown’s attack on Rihanna and the public reaction to it (of some, at least) is a typical sign of the times. Hip-hop and other popular music artists often promote an anti-women worldview in which violence is seen as legitimate behavior. Where Western men were once taught that beating a woman is at all times unacceptable, teenagers today are told that women can deserve it and that a real man slaps his woman when she disobeys him.
Meanwhile, this is a grand opportunity for Rihanna to use her popularity and fame for a good purpose, rather than to give young girls the impression they have to be thinner than a carrot and dress like a prostitute. Lets hope she’ll use this controversy as a means to educate youngsters who, for better or worse, look to her for guidance.
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78 Comments
I just don't see why these worthless people have to encourage this kind of thing in the popular culture. It just gets out into the mainstream and then you start seeing behavior like that in the kids who went to the better schools in the (let's face it, mostly white) suburbs. And really, what is hip hop but a bunch of native drum noise and terrible advice? I'd much rather hear Katy Perry.
She should've kicked him to the curb long ago. There are reports that this is not the first time it's happened. It's just escalating and he's only sorry because he got caught. Look at the lyrics to their songs. They believe this crap. Why? Where did this come from? Don't even tell me it's because that's the way it is in the 'hood. I was a victim of child abuse. There is no excuse. I made a choice to never abuse my children. People like Brown need to be held accountable for their actions. And jeers to MTV for not reporting on it seriously and for not condemning his actions, tho this is not surprising. They've glamorized the thug life so much that it's all in a day for them. My kids were never allowed to watch MTV. Not that there was any music on to watch or listen to. I don't even know why they exist. All they show are soap operas and reality shows. Get real.
The feminists haven't exactly been raising a ruckus about this particular incident of domestic violence. I don't know what it is in their ideology that prevents them from saying something. Does the ethnicity of the participants — or some other factor, God alone knows what — somehow negate the wrongness of what happened?
I liked them back when they showed music videos for 18+ hours a day, but apparently there wasn't enough advertising money in that. I never saw how they could have FAILED, financially, in such a successful niche market — it was just them for the longest time, and then it was just them and VH1. You'd think the advertisers would have settled for that, but no, they had to have some REASSURANCE that people were watchign and that their money was being well spent.
The decline of MTV, and of music and music video as an art form, can be tied quite conclusively to MTV's embrace of the great god Ratings.
I liked them back when they showed music videos for 18+ hours a day, but apparently there wasn't enough advertising money in that. I never saw how they could have failed, financially, in such a successful niche market — it was just them for the longest time, and then it was just them and VH1. You'd think the advertisers would have settled for that, but no, they had to have some reassurance that people were watching and that their money was being well spent.
The decline of MTV, and of music and music video as an art form, can be tied quite conclusively to MTV's embrace of the great god Ratings.
What's weird to me is the disjointed nature of the way men are portrayed by the media. Today's comedies show the middle-of-the-road white guy as the lovable doofus who always needs the wife to set him straight. But the hip hop culture shows black men as being domineering and dismissive of women. Neither is a good reflection of men in the popular culture but it seems obvious that the idea is to minimize the white guy and try to give the black guy more power– even if it's not a *good* kind of power. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but that's how it appears to me.
And the silence from feminist groups is deafening.
In some ways, hip-hop culture reminds me of radical Islam: in both cultures, it's okay to treat women like dirt. Feminists, who claim to care deeply about women's rights, refuse to speak out against this because political correctness trumps protecting women, every time.
Feminists were complaining about it. One blog I read had the front page of the NOW website (IIRC) and front and center was just this incident. Missing was any mention of that man who sawed off his wife's head.
And while men used to be taught to never resort to violence, ever, the practice was also, often enough, that abuse was tolerated.
"He's a wife beater? Burn him! Hang him! CASTRATE THE FILTHY BA– oh, wait, he's black… never mind."
God forgive me for saying this, but the minorities in this country are starting to be treated the way they think white people have been treated.
Maybe I'm just old and crotchety and out of touch with modern culture (to quote Clint Eastwood, "Get off my lawn"), but I've never understood why these self-promoted "badass" song and dance men aren't laughed off the stage. The root of the problem, however, isn't in Chris Brown's character or lack thereof. It's that "Rihanna" put up with escalating abuse and disrespect until the relationship culminated in this act. Why? So she could enjoy the fake benefits of a celebrity relationship in the spotlight? I recognize that sometimes a woman may not know what she's getting into until it's too late. But she has nobody to blame but herself if a man hits her twice.
Don't hold your breath waiting on the feminists. They still haven't condemned Bill Clinton for using his position of power to obtain sexual favors (I love bringing this up to young "feminists"). It goes to show you that feminism — like environmentalism — is more loyal to a political faction than its self-assigned special interest.
Old Tom,
You're quite right about your first line. John Wayne would have slapped this little punk silly, which is a redundancy, and then tossed him into a horse trough. I want the culture of chivalry back, the one where women respect men, and men respect women, each for their different roles, and for their common humanness as wonderful creations of God. And you're quite right about the rest of your comment as well.
I'd like to see one of those old-time movie moments redone for the modern age where a real man punches the snot out of some loudmouth rapper. I do remember a scene in a L'amour novel about a guy with rattlesnake quick reflexes who was a punk….the hero, a blacksmith just reaches out, and breaks both of triggerhappy gunslinger's wrists. Very satisfying scene that was.
Michael's right: carrots should not dress like prostitutes. It's just wrong.
Have you guys ever actually listened to folk music lyrics like Pretty Polly or Brutton Town? Or country murder ballads like Banks of the Ohio? Old timey music is filled with incredibly violent songs. Hell, Gene Freaking Autry once recorded a song called "Atlanta Bound", where he talked about killing a guy who stole his woman. Yet, you pretend that somehow only now some dastaradly negroes took lyrics into the gutter?
I think that corporately-marketed hip hop is utter garbage, because artists like Jurassic Five, Cut Chemist, De La Soul, Del the Funky Homospian and others don't go anywhere the stereotypical "gangsta" stuff that you guys are railing about. Not everything is as cut and dried as you think it is.
Rihanna's silence to this point about that bastard beating the crap out of her is the only 'education' she's going to give her fans. Last year when she put makeup on her bruises and that patch on her eye, and even now when she still refuses to speak out against the bastard who beat the crap out of her in that Lamborghini – well, that's the only 'education' Rihanna is going to give her fans. And that education is – put up and shut up.
This woman is sick. And her family and friends are just as sick as she is.
Isn't this the "Bush doesn't like black people" guy? The "intellectual rapper", the "smartest man in music"???
Excuse me while a smirk a bit. Karma's a
bi*chpain, isn't it?I guess I have to disagree just a little bit with Michael, though I agree with most of what's been said. I completely agree the bent of rap music, for many years, has been anti-woman. Woman are property or objects, not people. Its unacceptable but its prevelant. I definately think rap music perpetuates that disrespect though I'm not for censoring it in any way. Kids need to make their own decisions. As an aside, I have no idea who Brown is, other than a rapper so I'm neither a fan nor a critic.
That being said, Chris Brown, for all the trappings of fame is a young, dumb kid. I had anger management issues at age 18 (I think he's 19 ?) and I had no idea how to control those feelings. It was more along the lines of shouting rather than physical violence but I certainly think one is a gateway to another. You can be taught respect for woman by your folks, which I was, but if you don't understand yourself and your failings, all the respect in the world may not matter (though it should). As I grew up, matured and realized I had a problem, I worked on it and for the most part, fixed it. The measure of a young man is if he learns from his mistakes- Chris Brown knows his issue and in many ways, learning about it early and possibly getting help for it is the best thing that could have happened to him. Don't get me wrong- I'm not giving him a pass- if he beat up Rhianna, he's committed a crime- but I wouldn't place him in the Michael Vick category, where's he's participated in a pattern and practice of bad behavior, at an age when he should know better.
Also, and I know its taboo to bring up, but many of us have been in that situation, where the girl with you is mad at you for something and she just won't let up. I think just as men need to realize there are right and wrong ways to treat woman, woman need to also realize that sometimes you have to stop pushing. Society has done such a good job of putting woman on a pedastle, to point where they believe respect is all about them. Its not, its about both the man and the woman respecting themselves.
I'm glad for both of them it wasn't any worse than it was. I hope Brown gets help, now, while he's young.
[...] Big Hollywood wrote an interesting post today on When Rap Lyrics Become RealityHere’s a quick excerptNot only do hip-hop artists promote sexually perverse behavior, disrespect towards women and violence, they seem to believe that living in accordance to these ‘values’ is quite all right : Just a day after an interview with Chris Brown’s father appeared on People.com, the magazine has published an interview with Rihanna’s father, Ronald Fenty . Fenty reportedly told the magazine that when he first heard about her alleged altercation with Chris Brown , “I didn’t believe it. I know my [...]
ah….that should have read 'quiet'
I have compassion for Rihanna, although I do wish she would have gotten out earlier. My mother was abused by her bastard 2nd husband (she should have stayed with the first), and it took a lot for her to finally end it. I blame the race hustlers and welfare enablers who have allowed this way of thinking to fester for decades, producing man-children without fathers (or knowledge of them) to produce discipline and respect for others. Chris Brown can f*** off for all I care, and so can his father.
You're thinking Kanye West.
Matt, you are FULL of it! A man beats the crap out of a woman – and all you can do is babble that it isn't because he did something WRONG (don't want to make a moral judgment because then you'd actually have to stand up for morality!) but instead a psychobabble twisting of words to say it's all because Brown 'doesn't understand' himself? He beat the crap out of a woman, okay? What's there to understand?
Oh, and nice swift kick to Rihanna – the bitch asked for it. Nice going. I can understand THAT real well.
If the feminists were interested in this kind of issue, they'd have been raising holy hell over honor killings and wife trophy beheadings.
Chris Brown is in no way a "rapper". Pop/R&B at best.
Yeah, it's not like 30 seconds with Google doesn't turn up decades of examples.
Whoopdeedoo, here's a gem from DMX:
"I'm gunnin' for your spouse,
tryin' to send that bitch back to her maker,
and if you've got a daughter older then 15,
I'm a rape her, take her on the living room floor,
right there in front of you, then ask you seriously,
what you wanna do?"
They would, but they just haven't figured out how to blame Bush yet. Give them time though. they'll think of something.
Uh, you sound like you still have some issues to work on….
sometimes a woman hsould be not messing with her man though so do we know all of what happened? maybe rhianna was cheating on him or she did something we doint know about. i think she was probably in the worng because i have experience with how women work. i just think they should have seen a counselor too and worked out there probems that way.
Isn't this the "Bush doesn't like black people" guy? The "intellectual rapper", the "smartest man in music"???
Never mind.
Dang! Gotta take more care reading Goggle results from now on.
Most of those old ballads don't condone what the murderer did. And in Atlanta Bound, the singer ends up on the end of a ball and chain.
Brown’s attack on Rihanna and the public reaction to it (of some, at least) is a typical sign of the times. Hip-hop and other popular music artists often promote an anti-women worldview in which violence is seen as legitimate behavior.
Maybe we're finally figuring out why the Left doesn't have as much of a problem with Islam (especially radical Islam) as they do with Christianity. The Left seems to believe that a woman's purpose involves killing her unborn offspring, being forced to work (if they don't, they're somehow "less of a woman"), allowing herself to be used sexually, and enduring violence. Thank goodness they are the party of tolerance (what would women do without them).
Because of the media saturation of this domestic dispute it does seem like all the world is watching to see what Rihanna's next public move will be. It will definitely make an impression on a generation of girls. I know this is a "private" matter, but when you date in public and use your relationship for publicity you can expect scrutiny when things turn ugly. I just hope that Rihanna stands up for herself publicly, no matter how she chooses to resolve the relationship.
Well, another problem here is that some people, women included, are trying to reserve judgment until we hear the story from the original sources. What really happened? Sorry, but I don't want to rely on TMZ and the other tabloids for my "facts" on the situation.
Hi Caroline, I think you misunderstood my comment or possibly interupted what I was saying incorrectly. . First, Brown's actions were clearly wrong. I thought I made that clear. There are laws which cover assault and a felony assault charge is nothing to sneeze at. Second, I certainly didn't say she "asked for it". I said, in essence, men and woman fight and its not always solely the fault of the man. Again, you are reading into what I said. Third, I don't think he "beat the crap out of her". He may have but I think its safe to say we don't know exactly what happened nor do we know the extent of her injuries. I hope her injuries were exagerated in the press (which the press tends to do, to sell newspapers) because quite frankly, no woman deserves to be beat up.
I am saying they are both young and humans are utterly fallible. We do stupid things, mean things, cruel things, especially when we're young. You can try to hold a 19 year old to the standard of a man but he's barely a man and humans learn through experience. What I am saying is if he learns from it, gets help, recognizes his behavior is unacceptable and becomes a better person because of it. Sometimes it takes an encounter like this to shake somebody up, to make them look at themselves honestly and admit they have a problem. Unjustified violence towards anyone is problematic.
Should she forgive him ? I'm not saying she should or shouldn't. If she refuses to do so or kicks him to the curb, i cannot possibly fault him for that. But we honestly need to look at it from both sides.
And sgt, quite frankly you don't know me. I needed help when I was younger, I sought it and got it. There's none of the old me in me now, as far as I know. I hope Brown is just stupid and lost his temper and he's not a serial abuser (which I know are out there). He does have a choice to be better and change his life or ignore his actions and learn nothing. If he learns nothing from this, then that's his own fault.
Also as an aside, I completely agree with Des about Islam. One of the most baffling things to me about Islamofacism is the extent to which liberal woman's groups in this country, ignore the way radical islam treats its woman- unlike Brown, those men, like the guy who beheaded his wife, will never repent, will never ask for forgiveness and instead believe their god somehow requires their actions. Its very very sad.
Yes, Des. apparently it's okay to beat the crap of a woman if she deserves it. Thank goodness It is okay to wear as little clothing as possible. Phew!
*i cannot possibly fault him for that.*
Woops mistyped. I meant "her" not "him".
Oh and as an aside, just from reading, it looks like it was a fight over a woman Brown was talking to/flirting with. If so, Brown should know better and Rhianna probably would have been better simply walking away from him. She's a beautful talented woman, who can do better whenever she wants. Jealousy is an ugly monster and can effect both sexes equally and cause people to do things they never thought they would do.
Or to flip up her shirt in front of a camera so she can feel good about herself. I guess that's what feminism is supposed to be about.
The reason it seemed as if you went to the "she asked for it' defence was because of your comments about women who "push and push."
There is never a time, no matter how much a woman pushes, that it's okay to react with violence. Just as a woman can walk away, so can a man.
Maturity is a two way street.
The reason it seemed as if you went to the "she asked for it' defence was because of your comments about women who "push.. won't let up ….and being put on a pedestal," is if women have culpability when a man hits them.
There is never a time, no matter how much a woman pushes, that it's okay to react with violence. Just as a woman can walk away, so can a man.
Maturity is a two way street.
sgt, I completely agree with you. Again, I am not saying it was justified but I'm assuming you've had a woman who knew how to "push your buttons" so to speak.. How a man reacts to that is a measure of a man but at the same time, I've known many woman who push those buttons because they want an "emotional response" from the guy they are with.
And you hit it on the head- maturity is a two way street- exactly- and both man and woman will learn to handle conflict as they grow and mature.
The current black "culture" based on living an uneducated gangbanging/hip-hop life is the new slavery. Wonder when the black community is going to figure it out and break these chains that they've put on themselves voluntarily?
Third, I don't think he "beat the crap out of her". He may have but I think its safe to say we don't know exactly what happened nor do we know the extent of her injuries.
Based on what? Reports are that she had bruising on her neck and had been punched repeatedly with fists. You are guessing that the report is exaggerated, but not only did she not sing the next night, but she's avoided being photographed ever since. That certainly sounds like someone who's injuries are pretty apparent. It's interesting that you say you don't think he beat the crap out of her, then admonish another poster because "none of us know."
The problem with your argument is that it reeks of justification. Women do assault men, but in this case he's much bigger and stronger, so if he hit and choked her, he's not someone who "made a mistake," any more than a rapist is someone who made a bad choice. I'll be willing to accept it if he's exonerated, but I'm not going to apologize for assuming he's a scumbag because he beat up his girlfriend.
If 18 year old men can be sent to war, and expected to respond with precision and discernment when threatened by 7th century-living barbarians hell-bent on killing them, then a 19-year-old MAN can refrain from hitting a woman.
By the age of 13, my father had taught me that you NEVER hit a woman, ever. He did so with stern words about how I treated my older sisters, and by treating my mother with respect.
Gentleness with women is a ManLaw. If you hit a woman, or a child, or wear socks with sandals, you are no longer a man. And you must do the penance to re-earn your testicles.
Hitting women, under any circumstance, is the utmost in cowardice in a man.
Of course no one in entertainment will denounce this cow but ya know what I don't care. These women who hang out with these rapper thugs know what they're all about so as the saying goes "play with fire and you'll get burbed". My bet is the rap community will "ASK" Rihanna not to cooporate with the police and she'll agree.
Another thing that burns me with hollywood is that most of them claim they are so anti gun but they all fawn of rappers such as TI who have been busted with illegal guns. In TI's case a machine gun. Hypocrites. To bad Brown did't beat the crap out of someone like Tina Fey or Jenane Garbarfalo, at least it would shut them up while their jaws are wired shut.
Matt – it still looks like you're refusing to make a person responsible for their actions by using the excuse 'they're still a kid'. To me, this isn't an issue of age but of humanity. Brown running like a coward to Vegas to hide in his hotel room and or sulk on his web site as he tries to throw the blame on Rihanna is a sign he doesn't have any.
One thing I do agree on – and I say this very carefully because I do not wish to excuse Brown – but Rihanna DID 'push buttons'. She pushed buttons when she let him slap her around before and she didn't walk away. She pushed buttons when she put that eye patch on and lied about why. And she's pushing the wrong buttons now with her silence and refusal to slap Brown with a warrant, a public announcement, anything. In this respect, Rihanna gets no sympathy from me. Girl, if you're going to make yourself into a doormat, don't bitch when somebody walks on you.
Here's another one "A beating has left rap producer Marion 'Suge' Knight hospitalized in Arizona" Him and AKONS people got into it. You can't go 1 week without seeing some rapper involved in violenece the problem is now they bring it out of their ghettos and into the civilized world. A few weeks ago two of the got into a fight inside of a swanky 5th Ave NY NY store. I think I heard something about them saying it was George Bush's fault because he made them so angry after Katrina.
Exactly. We also need to be careful with our terminology. He's not accused of "hitting" her (which could be anything from an open hand slap, to a push, to a punch), he's accused of choking her and punching her in the face with his fists. There is an enormous difference between them, and it's easy to confuse the discussion by saying "hit," which sounds far less severe. I don't care if she "pushed his buttons," if he physically assaulted her, then he should end up with a felony conviction (even if they can't put him in jail because of the massive overcrowding of California's prisons).
Chris Rock said it best…."If I'm a man, and I'm arguing with a larger man, there's a line I don't cross!" When you're dealing with a woman half your size, anything more than a single slap done before you have time to think (and in response to being physically assaulted yourself) makes you a criminal. Period.
Yikes! I'm no big fan of Fey or Garofolo but I wouldn't wish violence on either one of them.
The odd part is Chris Brown's music isn't usually in the "bitches and hos" category. Like someone said, he's R&B, not gangsta. "Forever" happens to be one of my favorite songs. So I was surprised to hear he did this. It was wrong, and I hope he gets a proper punishment. If Rhianna (who by the way is also not in that category, as her music is more of the "dance" variety") was smart she'd break up with him, at least until he got his act together if at all.
I don't know anything about Brown or his music but he was featured on a show my kids watch– "The Suite Life of Zack and Cody," so it was awful to have this young man that my kids are familiar with display this kind of behavior. Obviously I can use it as an a way to open up a dialogue with my kids and explain why what he did was wrong. What's harder to explain is why the mainstream media hasn't really gotten up in arms over this. Why haven't the "feminist" groups that couldn't excoriate Sarah Palin enough for having a disabled child said anything about this? Maybe there are some feminist blogs condemning this (as another poster mentioned) but I haven't exactly seen Oprah front and center saying anything about it.
The first sentence needs a comma after the word 'women'.
A basic rule of grammar is that a sentence listing three separate things needs two commas
(as in 'I like red, blue, and green.').
In this case, the author creates the impression that he is saying 'Hip hop promotes disrespect of violence'.
Actually, you're incorrect. When using multiple items, you don't use a comma before the word 'and'. It's something I had to be taught by my first editor.
Therefore, it is actually grammar that is to blame for domestic violence. Who knew? I would have never guessed that Mr. Brown is such a stickler for correct English. I assume he learned this in Public School.
Am I missing something here? By the time I was in kindergarten my parents had already hammered into my head that "boys don't hit girls." It was ingrained, even though boys and girls are about the same size and physical strength at that age. The concept of getting it into a boy's head that early is that by the time we're adults, the difference in size and strength is generally considerable. Like most things we are taught as children, we grow up to live by them.
I don't know who really did what here, but on first inspection, it seems pretty obvious. A strong man hit a smaller, weaker woman. I wouldn't care if he were only twelve years old, physical violence against a woman is unacceptable (with the possible exception of true self-defense where no other option is available), and a criminal act. My son, and now my grandsons, have been taught the same lessons. Of course the rule is somewhat different now. We have to add "even if she's a radical feminist, you still can't hit her." Sorry, Gloria, someone has to protect you.
Shit yeah John! You tell em! She deserved it! Probably askin for it too!
And Fey and Garofolo! Yeah, lets punch those bitches as well! Nothing says MAN like implied violence against women you don't agree with. AWESOME!
??? I'm sure there are many educated and well of black people that would disagree with you – after punching you in the face of course.
Grammar lessons…on THIS article?
I am at a loss for words.
Hmmm, are you sure about that? It's a small point and irrelevant to the subject, but now I'm curious. The sentence reads, "…promote sexually perverse behavior, disrespect towards women and violence." That's not two words (phrases), it's three. I have been told by several editors that in that situation you NEVER use the comma. I'll take your word for it if you're sure, but I'm going to need a grammar tutor soon if they keep changing the rules on me.
I knew there was a reason I always ditched my high school English class.
Hi Des,
I appreciate your courteous tone.
I see the above comments from "sqt", and I see that Wikipedia (English grammar, punctuation, commas) supports my point as well.
As I see it, the main point (or value) of correct grammar in writing is for the author to achieve maximum clarity of intended meaning.
Allowing unintended ambiguity (to creep into your endeavor to communicate the meaning you intended) weakens the force of your communication,
by requiring the reader to interrupt the flow of your thoughts in order to be sure that he/she has understood you as intended.
I am simply advocating for maximum clarity as a means to achieve maximum effectiveness in the presentation of one's ideas.
@Rather Read
Well, having grown up with hip hop music, I can understand Erasmus' frustration.
Early on, like most music genres, hip hop had a balance between the negative, violent stuff (gangsta rap) and the socially responsible and often fun material (e.g., Will Smith). Unfortunately, due to greed or evil intent, a lot of the major record companies started focusing on gangsta rap to the exclusion of all else. Any rapper (Black , White, etc.) who refused to go negative had time getting a job with the majors. (That said, some positive rappers like Nas are determined to prove that you can be successful without selling out your principles). To make matters worse, the mass media and self-appointed Black (mis)leaders were willing to go along with this bad cultural shift. On this level, hip hop is like rock 'n' roll, another genre that has a sinister reputation due to the actions of some artists.
Yes, rappers who glamorize violence against women should be condemned for the evil actions. But we should also recognize those rappers who refuse to go along with the sorry status quo.
You're absolutely correct. The extra comma is superfluous. Most writers tend to overuse commas. I'm one of them. That's why God invented editors.
I agree with you. That's how it should be. You were lucky to have had solid parenting. But that's not the reality in some families. I watched my mother go through hell. It was a family matter – a family secret. And it was generational. That's how we were raised. Mine was a white, lower-middle class, blue-collar family. I thinks it's more like alcoholism (and that often went hand-in-hand in my family). And I know mine wasn't the only family to go through it. He was a outwardly strong, authoritative man. He would never have listened to anyone. She stood by her man. There was no one to help.
Peel off the layer of hip hop/rap culture (built out of this same environment), and I don't think this case is much different. They both need education and open dialogue with people that can end the cycle.
He should drop the walls and listen.
She should move on. Where's Tina Turner? They should have a heart to heart.
You must go back and read the sentence. It really is grammatically incorrect. It just is. It doesn't read right because it isn't constructed correctly. It's silly to get hung up on this though and usually commas are totally superfluous. But in this case it really is needed for clarification.
Man, I'm usually not this ardent when it comes to grammar. But I *know* that a comma is grammatically correct here. Check out the rule
Sorry for going on and on here. Totally off topic and not relevant to the post.
You must go back and read the sentence. It really is grammatically incorrect. It just is. It doesn't read right because it isn't constructed correctly. It's silly to get hung up on this though and usually commas are totally superfluous. But in this case it really is needed for clarification.
Man, I'm usually not this ardent when it comes to grammar. But I *know* that a comma is grammatically correct here. Check out the rule
Sorry for going on and on here. Totally off topic and not relevant to the post.
Hey, who are we to judge another culture? You need to be more open minded.
I hate to jump on the grammar police bandwagon, but technically CAW is right. If you google comma usage in lists the most common rule is to use a comma before the 'and' if the two words, in this case women and violence, are not a matched pair– like macaroni and cheese. CAW is correct in that the sentence reads as if it says hip hop music promotes disrespect of violence due to the comma usage–or lack of. I've also had editors and been on the receiving end of grammar corrections. I'm guessing in your case the comma may not have been necessary because the two listed items went together. But if they don't, a comma should be used. I do book reviews and talk to various authors frequently and they always tell me that they're encouraged to use more commas. I'm not sure why, but overuse is rarely frowned on– or so I've been told.
But I don't know that I feel any particular need to chastise the author of the post. The point was obvious.
I feel sorry for the kids who look at rappers as role models.
http://the100mostannoyingthings.blogspot.com/
I am astounded at this turn of events. Imagine violence coming from the rap and hip-hop community? Next thing you will tell us is that Islam is NOT a reilgion of peace?
Lol. Grammar is a pain and I'm guilty of mistakes– often. The only reason I commented on this one is because I saw the point CAW was trying to make. If you look at the original sentence… Not only do hip-hop artists promote sexually perverse behavior, disrespect towards women and violence,… and break down the last part disrespect toward women and violence you can see how violence and women are grouped together as if they are both things that are being disrespected. If you put a comma between women and and, women is separated from violence and the sentence makes more sense.
In a list like this, which does have three items, the last two can glom on to each other and appear to be linked together. Here's a link to the Oxford comma, aka the serial comma. If anything, this shows the ambiguity of the rule and really, it could be argued that we're both right. But generally speaking, if there is a lack of clarity in the meaning of the sentence, the rule indicates you should use the comma.
Okay. I'm done now.
I have to admit that Erasmus does have a point here. Yes, some of the old ballads condemn this kind of behavior, but not all of them. The title character of Tam Lin, for example, is a serial rapist. But rather than root for him to get his just due, the ballad encourages us to root for him to be saved so he can marry one of his victims.
That said, though, it feels like gangsta rap crosses a line that those ballads didn't. I can't say why, exactly, but between the graphic nature of the lyrics and the fact that many of the "musicians" seem to be living the life as well as singing the songs, I think it's something destructive that civilized people should shun.
I don't know those old songs so I can't say what the difference really is. But if I had to guess I'd say it's because those old songs were telling a story while most rap isn't about a narrative but rather just spewing hate at whatever their target is.
Oh we the feminists are all over this.
Just go to Jezebel or Feministing.
[...] serves as a perfect example of what the hip-hop mentality can do to women. Chris Brown may not be a hip-hop artist, but he’s certainly part of its culture and attitude. This culture is anti-women, and [...]
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