Studio Knuckle-Heads Endanger ‘Spider-Man’
by Matt PattersonJust before Christmas rumors began to leak out of Hollywood that Sam Raini’s Spider-Man 4 had run into trouble. Nonsense, came word from Sony; the production is only on “holiday break,” all is well in Spidey-Land, and your favorite web-slinger will be swinging into your local multiplex on May 6, 2011 as planned.
What a difference a new year makes. Apparently, those rumors were true after all: Variety is reporting that sources from Sony confirm that the production is on hold, perhaps indefinitely, and that a May 2011 release is now unlikely.
The reason? It seems there are deep and perhaps intractable differences between Raimi and the studio regarding the quality of the latest script, the structure of the proposed plot, and even the choice of villain for this fourth outing. Raimi is said to be keen on the Vulture, with John Malkovich to fill the bald baddie’s bird suit. The studio, however, reportedly fears that the Vulture – an elderly character in the comics – is a poor choice of villain for a tent-pole, summer franchise film. It’s unclear whom the studio would prefer, but clearly they are angling for more ‘hip’ than ‘hip replacement’ to bedevil Peter Parker’s alter ego.
It is true that Vulture is not exactly fresh – in fact, he dates back to Spidey’s early “golden-age” rogue’s gallery. But that was also true of the Green Goblin, the villain in the first Spider-Man film, and Doc Ock, of the second. Both of those villains seem just as ridiculous on paper as the Vulture. Yet both were played by terrific character actors (Willem Dafie and Alfred Molina respectively) who infused them with genuine passion and pathos, and were fashioned into remarkably compelling film villains in Sam Raimi’s capable hands. And is it any wonder? After all, the mastermind behind the Evil Dead triliogy should know a thing or two about villains.
The first two Spider-Man films were, of course, box office and artistic triumphs. But during the making of the third installment, something went wrong – the studio reportedly pressured Raimi to include a surplus of villains, one of which, the alien symbiont Venom, he was unfamiliar with and had little interest in. The result? Spider-Man 3 was an overstuffed mess, and widely reviled by critics and fans (I know it still made gobs of money, but it would have made a lot more had it been any good).
Sony had forgotten the winning formula for comic book movies: Choose a talented director who excels in character and plot, chops usually developed toiling away for years on lower budget fare, and then let them do their job. It is a formula that gave us Chris Nolan’s Batman, Brian Singer’s X-Men, and John Favreau’s Iron Man, critical and box office darlings all.
Sony ignored this formula at their detriment, and they are apparently hell-bent on repeating this mistake. It reminds me of Congressional logic, which seems to go something like this: Government messing things up? Let’s have more government! I suppose if there is one group likely to be even more dunder-headed than Congress, it would be Hollywood studio executives.
If Sony is wise, they would bring Sam Raimi into their plush offices, sit him down, offer him the beverage of his choice, and say, “Sam, you make awesome movies, and you’ve made us a shit load of money. Tell us what you need to make another Spider-man, and you’ve got it.” Of course, they won’t do that, anymore than Congress will get their snout out of our affairs.
The result in both instances will be suitably, predictably, disastrous.
(Authors Note: Happy Birthday to Big Hollywood, and congratulations to Andrew Breitbart, our esteemed editor John Nolte, Alex Marlow, and all my fellow Big Hollywood contributors. It is an honor and a blast to be in your company.)
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75 Comments
Story is key to any movie. Actors build on that foundation.
In the words of Mike Holmes; Make It Right.
The only people happy about this are Disney/Marvel – if Sony can't put the franchise back together before the license runs out, they get it back.
'Hey, that Cameron guy proved the story doesn't matter as long as you have expensive effects and pretty leads!'
By the time you get to the fourth sequel of just about anything it's pathetically lame. But, then, I'm all for Hollywood bankrupting itself so it will disappear faster.
I boycott anything that bears the name Tobey Maguire.
Easy Dan. Let's not lower the standards.
As a member of the hip-replacement demographic, I'm with Raimi. There's a reason it's hard to teach old dogs new tricks. It's because we already know most of the best ones. Malkovich would be a perfect Vulture, and he could teach that young whipper-snapper Spidey a few tricks.
Agreed! Also, they've had Dr. Connors in the background for 3 whole movies. When do we get to him?
The fantastic John Malkovich as a Spiderman villian sounds like a winner to me.
I have a really bad feeling about Spiderman 4.
Part 3 was a disaster. You're right Matt. Too many villains, too much going on, not a very good story.
Doesn't anyone remember what happened when Batman Forever and the even worse Batman And Robin ran that franchise into the ground?
Sam Raimi should have taken a pass on Spidey 4. If Sony still doesn't have faith in him after the fantastic job he did with 1&2 that they're pushing him to make an inferior product just so they can meet a summer release date, they never will.
Screw them Sam! Grab your 16mm, go out into the woods with your pal Bruce Campbell and make another Evil Dead!
I'll go see that.
; )
What an embarrassing brain hiccup for me. I missed your post somehow.
The pathy Sony is following has and will turn out poorly.
Remember the movie Batman and Robin? Too many heroes, too many villains, and absolutely do characters that you could care much about.
Same thing happened to Spiderman 3.
A good super hero movie should have no more than 1 supervillain and 1 superhero, which is why I fear for the upcoming Avengers movie. The odds that it will be horrible are quite high.
So true!! Bring on the Lizard and his purple pants!! He has a great backstory, and if they MUST make him a CG creature, it would satisfy the "hip" quotient.
I'm more concerned that they are going waaay to esoteric with the characters…the world has not been waiting 60 years to see Ant Man on the big screen.
A good villain must look good in a fight and not be sympathetic. Vulture is bad; he's old and since all he really does is fly, won't look good in a fight scene. Lizard is bad; he may look good in a fight, but Spidey will be more concerned in curing his college professor rather than beating hm up, like he did with Harry Osborn.
I think the best villain would be Kraven the Hunter. He's evil through and through so there's no sympathy, he's good in a fight, and you can have some drama with Spidey coping with the "Hunting the Most Dangerous Game" scenario.
I'm not sure Raimi hasn't lost the plot as much as Sony has. There was talk about him wanting Vulture *and* Vulturette! The Vulture's daughter, flying around with him. WTH? Worst of all, the Vulturette would be Felicia Hardy! Come again? I disagree with Spitz and think Vulture could be cool, but not like this.
But Kraven's costume! One of the absolute worst! And "Big Game Hunter" doesn't really resonate with the modern demo, does it? Vulture could be very cool, precisely because there's something so creepy about an old bald dude flying around.
Just introduce Kraven in 4 so you can do the Kraven's last hunt storyline in 5…i could care less who the main villain was if they did that.
Let's see…
Vulture with a John Woo bent, fast, flying, and Wu Shu? Add a bit of tech and some unusual DNA thing that makes him scary fast and "flying" (long-distance gliding, maybe), but ages him faster than normal…?
Give him a "deadline" (for real) to do something to prevent his dying from the changes…?
Geez, how hard is this to figure out…?
That should have been Spider-Man 3. Would have been so cool, too…
Malkovitch makes an terrific villian. I wouldnt mind seeing the excellent John Lithgow as a villian. He can do creepy evil well, as well. Spidey 3 was a major disappointment.
TBDI: Good thought. Lithgow also proved he could go way over the top (a Spiderman necessity) in Buckaroo Banzai.
The more villians they have in the movie, the more action figures they can sell.
Spiderman needs a total reboot. Get a new cast and crew to bring some new energy to the franchise. Dunst was miscast as Mary Jane Watson, and lets not forget the silly power ranger Green Goblin. The second movie was the best one out of the three.
To heck with Spiderman – bring on Wee Free Men! That needs to be made before we lose Pterry!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spider-Man_e...
Here is an interesting list of Spidey Villians.
Personally I think a good story would be that Spidey has a run in with the Kingpin who hires the Lobo broters to kill him. (can't beat mutant werewolves for action). That could be cool and it would allow the movies to bring the Fisk into the life of Spiderman.
However the vulture wouold be cool if they give him increased strength as a side effect of the harness to make him a formidable villian for Spidey. Okay enough fanboyism for now.
The fact that Raimi is fighting with Sony shows that he cares about what he's doing. He want's a quality story with character! Remember that? The graph paper committee over at Sony had better get their collective heads out of their a$$es! Spiderman 1 & 2 =The basics of good Movie fundamentals 3 =Dog $h!t.
Nuff Said!
I've always been a fan of the Vulture, and could come off as a wonderfully creepy menace if Raimi chose to go that path. I vote for either him or Mysterio. I've never understood why some fans have such adoration for the Lizard – Batman fans certainly don't have such surplus enthusiasm for oh, say, Man-Bat.
Oh, I don't know about that. Dr. Octopus was quite the sympathetic character and, in my opinion, the most compelling villain yet in the Spider-Man series.
Kingpin was already used in "Daredevil" and except for the upcoming Avengers-related movies Marvel is trying to keep them separate from each other. That's why in "Daredevil" Ben Urich wasn't working for the Daily Bugle.
Replace "Big Game Hunter" with "Killer of Endangered Animals" and he'll resonate very well.
I still think Spidey 2 is one of the best superhero flicks of all time. It had a lot of heart and the inner struggle was done well. But 3 was awful. I was furious I spent the money. Is Sony so stupid it can't learn the lesson of Batman? The more villains they added to those, the worse they got. It pissed me off that they wasted such a cool villain as Venom.
Now they're set to ruin 4. I hope the project implodes and it gets a reboot like Batman Begins. Another fantastic movie. Not sure they're doing a third one those but you know if they do there's a good chance the studio destroys that franchise too.
If Sony wants to add a character to the Spiderman movies, they should properly reintroduce the Punisher character into the franchise. The three previous Punisher films were nothing but revenge fantasies that completely ignored the complexity of the Punisher character. A maturing Peter Parker, beginning to become disillusioned by his crimefighting, interacting with Frank Castle and his righteous but barely controlled rage at society's pathology would be a perfect subplot around a standard supervillian character.
This would not only satisfy Sony's impulse to add characters to the franchise, but more importantly, it would finally give one of the greatest comic book characters a proper and overdue reintroduction to audiences. Sony should also be thrilled by the potential for Punisher spin-offs.
My choice to play the Punisher would be Randy Couture.
I have to side with the studios on this one. Raimi destroyed the Spidey franchise. Spidey 3 was especially awful.
I boycott anything Marvel after their Captain America mess. They get NONE of my money. Haven't even seen Spider-Man 3, and don't plan to.
You know what? Even the best of the Spider-Man films is wildly overrated, and Spider-Man 3 was so bad that I doubt I'd even bother seeing Spider-Man 4.
So…whatever!
Then conservatives will boycott it because it maligns hunters! ;-D
Your opinion is shared by a lot of people, I know, but I don't get why Doc Ock was sympathetic to you guys. Yeah, he lost his wife, but my sympathy goes out the window when a guy becomes a mass murderer.
Sure he seemed decent in the opening scenes of Spider-Man 2, but as soon as things went south, he's out chucking pieces of buildings at pedestrians and trying to murder trainloads of innocent passengers.
What makes him sympathetic?
Yeah, Sony's right on- old people are LAME. No one likes OLD characters. Who would watch a space drama with an OLD, bald French captain? Or a movie with some OLD Okinawan teaching a young kid karate? And why would a young orphaned wizard need guidance from an OLD wizard with a beard down to his waist? Mentor/parental figure? Scratch that, it's stupid. Get to the action! And old people are totally not scary. Dragons and big floating eyes, yes. Some OLD magic-wielding dude on a tower more vertigo-inducing than Burj Khalifa? He'd pass out from the lack of oxygen! Same with the OLD politician who's secretly a Sith Lord. And the OLD cyborg with the dark mask who's all conflicted about turning his Jedi kid over to the politician because he's having a mid-life crisis or something. Not to mention the little, OLD, wrinkly green one. So he makes droids float. Borrring. They'd be flops, all of them! These types are better left to books and Masterpiece Theater and other super-not-cool things.
They should be pissing all over themselves with excitement at having Malkovich for the villain, though I can't speak to the quality of the story. I'm a fan of this franchise, BTW, and have two of the three on DVD.
Try to think of another actor who does evil better than John.
Hey, don't forget Michael Bay.
Too bad. Iron Man was tops.
Based on Civil War Tony Stark is at worst a fascist, at best, a fascist enabler. As far as I'm concerned, I didn't miss anything.
I could care less either way. Spiderman has always been my favorite super hero and I think the Spiderman movies are mediocre at best. I don't get why everyone likes them so much.
John Malkovich would make the Vulture scary, probably for the first time. It's a great choice.
Kravan The Hunter was, IMO, the most ridiculous villian ever conceived and I doubt that anyone could make the character work.
I really didn't see the 3rd Spiderman movie as being such a big wash-out. I agree that there was at least one too many villains but I think they pulled it off. The scene where Peter begs for Harry's help in defeating Venom validates the whole thing. The only part about the movie that I didn't appreciate was them shoehorning Gwen Stacy into the story. They basically conflated Gwen and MJ into the Kirsten Dunst MJ, so trying to inject Gwen into the 3rd movie seemed rather forced and unnecessary. They'll not be able to recreate the famous Goblin-kills-Gwen story, mainly since two Gobbys have been offed as of the third movie.
Reboot the franchise? Naw. I don't care what anybody says, they're never going to get a better Peter Parker than Toby Macguire. He's a complete and utter geek, and so was Spiderman, as originally conceived.
Loved Spiderman 1 & 2, but #3 made me hope that Sony and Rami do not make anymore.
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I've got an idea. They can bring in Will Ferrell and make the next Spider Man a raunchy R-rated comedy. Just look at the great job he did with Land of the Lost.
Sony has lost alot of marketing genius IMO. Look at all the mis-steps with the PS3.
I still don't think they've learned from these mis-steps, and are bound to repeat them in the future.
Considering Marvel's politics, he'd be dying because there's no universal healthcare. In the final scene, Spidey looks at the viewers and says "But maybe one day…" Fade to Aunt May.
and don't forget his creepy turn in Cliffhanger – superb.
And it fits! Dr. Emilio Lizardo! Which John was he again? No Bigboute. Whorfin?
The more villains they added to those, the worse they got. It pissed me off that they wasted such a cool villain as Venom.
Too right. Venom was my favorite Spider-villain, ruining his story also ruined the possibility of Carnage being the villain in #4.
Don't forget the imbroglio caused by the lawsuits that the Jack Kirby heirs are bringing, trying to reclaim the rights to the characters he co-created. That's got to have as big a part in the mess as script issues.
I was a fan of the spiderman movies until #3, when they turned the Character, Eddie Brock(Venom) from an insanely buff weightlifting meathead into a sniveling man-boy (thankyou very much Topher Grace). I can now see why the story was so poorly done, they forced the symbiote storyline into it when Raini didn't want to go that way.
I for one will look forward to seeing the Vulture on the silver screen if he is as well played as Doc Oc was.
I just want my Superman back. He might have been born on Krypton, but he was raised ALL AMERICAN tough guy hero. Even leftist Christopher Reeves (or his script writers) knew that.
The Vulture is one of my favorite Spiderman villains. He has the power to drain youth from his victims so they could have a old and young version of the character if they really needed something "hip."
Are you so jealous?
Old age and treachery?
He was sympathetic from the standpoint that he was not evil from the start. His aggressiveness as a scientist put him in a position where he became evil.
In terms of great villains, Dr. Doom has to rank up there as one of the all time bests—and look how badly the FF movies have done with him. Doom has enough to him to be the protagonist in a movie, and the FF movies turned him into a rich lazy brat.
Geez, not another crappy cry fest with a hacked up plot and acors that don't resemble the characters they portray. Ramey lost me after the first movie was 90% talking and 10% action, and I liked him during his evil dead days, hell even Darkman was better than Spiderman 1.
And he can fight George W. Bush played by wait…wait….Will Ferrell!!! Genius! Finally get an Oscar!
that's BigbooTAY!
EVIL DEAD 4, Fistfull of BOOMSTICK!
Satire award of the day…
[...] ALSO by Matt Patterson: Studio Knuckle-Heads Endanger Spider-Man 4. [...]
I'd like to thank Sony for making this possible!
oh, and it comes with a free set of Ginsu Knives.
Awesome! I can work on my target practice… with a big poster that says "SONY". Seriously, this is not awesome. Why – WHY- didn't they learn from Spidey 3???
Cause they are a bunch of automatons.
Well that's too bad because the Spiderman run ins with Fisk were pretty good.
Should it not come instead with a free set of the "clapper" automatic light turner oners. Just to keep with the Old theme.
But you cant cut a tin can with one of those, though you wouldn't want to.
Spider-Man 3 had many problems with the script; the director clearly did not like or fully appreciate Venom or the Sandman, both are great super villains — with complicated back stories and motivations — that just did not see the light of day in the film. Then you had the return of the Green Goblin, which needed to be reworked and — frankly — it almost felt like watching a poorly written film and then the early draft of a follow-up film. 'How It Should Have Ended' pretty much hit the nail on the head with Spider-Man 3. It would be kinda cool if they could set things up for the Sinister Six, but I would not be surprised if the franchises gets rebooted from scratch.
Yeah, the Green Goblin looked like a cheap Power Ranger knock-off, but the writing was much better then what happened with the third film. The idea of the technology being developed for the military was actually a cool idea and made some sense and his weapons looked cool, but the actual suit of armor just looked really silly.
I actually liked Tobey and Dunst in the films, but they clearly did not like each other in the third film and were less then thrilled about working together in the future. They have set things up for the Lizard, Mr. Jamerson's son, and even the Hobgoblin, but these are probably just little nods for fans that are not really suppose to go anywhere.
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