‘The Dark Knight’: Year One
by Matt PattersonWhat is the difference between art and entertainment?
There is, obviously, some overlap: Not all art entertains (though some does); not all entertainment is art (though some is). At bottom, it seems, the difference is one of intent – the artist seeks to connect us with larger meanings, larger truths about the world, about ourselves. The primary focus of art is therefore to illuminate, with any entertainment had in the process merely a bonus.
The goal of the entertainer, on the other hand, is perhaps less sublime, though no less worthy – to distract, to tickle, to stimulate the fancy. Entertainment is at bottom diversion, and I say this without a trace of disdain – often it is the quality and quantity of our diversions which makes the difference between a joyful life and a merely bearable one.
One year ago this weekend, a beating black heart pulsed in summer’s midst: The Dark Knight. It was big-budget, comic book based franchise movie, made for popcorn eaters seeking suitable summer diversion. And It delivered beyond the filmmakers wildest expectations – the masses were so entertained that they lifted it up into the box office stratosphere in grateful recompense.
And yet…
There was something different about The Dark Knight, something which separated it from its innumerable costume-wearing, crime-fighting brethren. Something weighty, a gravity which distorted its appearance in interesting ways. For instance, more of the story of The Dark Knight takes place during the day than in any previous Batman film. And yet no comic book movie was ever so black and bleak; it seems to take place in an unending polar night, not some sunny Chicago day.
Even common film tropes are distorted by this gravity, and bend backwards in on themselves: Lieutenant James Gordon is shot and killed…only to later reappear, his ‘death’ having been an elaborate head-fake for the benefit the film’s villains…and us. Lots of movies have this type of false death. The difference? We believe Gordon’s death; the film unfolds in such a manner as to make clear that no one is safe, a suspicion confirmed when, only a short while later, Bruce Wayne’s childhood friend, and love interest to both Wayne and Harvey Dent, is blown to bits in front of our eyes. This combination of reassurance and disaster, of sigh-of-relief then sucker punch, makes clear – there are no rules in this film.
Which, of course, is exactly how the Joker would want it. The only sensible way to live in this world, the Joker tells a demoralized and disfigured Harvey Dent, is without rules. Why would this movie, his movie, be any different?
In that same scene, the Joker puts a loaded gun into Harvey’s hand, then puts his own head to the barrel as he confesses to Dent “I’m an agent of chaos.” It was in that moment that I realized what Chris Nolan was up to: This isn’t the Joker – it’s the Devil.
Heath Ledger’s villain is not the macabre clown who battled Batman on the pages of the D.C. comics for most of the 20th century. He is the serpent from the Old Testament who has battled God for most of eternity. The genius of The Dark Knight is to give this eternal adversary a form well suited for our post 9-11 world – the man who blows up buildings and wages war on civilization itself.
Satan as Osama – that is Heath Ledger’s Joker, and the heart of The Dark Knight. By entangling our most ancient and mythic tormentor with our most recent real life villain, The Dark Knight simultaneously plays on our most primal and frightening suspicions: 1) That anyone can become a villain (wasn’t Lucifer the light-bearing angel most favored by God? Wasn’t Dent the most virtuous of public servants?), and 2) that the veneer of civilization is paper thin, and no match for even one man with bullets and gasoline and the will to use them.
By daring to step into those pooling shadows, The Dark Knight attains something higher than mere diversion. Dare I say it?
Art.
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108 Comments
Excellent analysis. And yes, TDK is the best kind of art: beautiful, moving, thought-provoking, and yes, disturbing.
Okay, I thought it was a little overrated. I finally watched it about a month ago. Very very very good. The greatest movie ever? Eh.
Maybe it was the hype. I remember being thoroughly unimpressed with Forest Gump when I saw it because it had been hyped as the greatest movie since Casablanca.
Also, Heath Ledger was outstanding as The Joker. But if Heath hadn't died sadly and untimely before the release of this film I don't think his performance gets near the accolades that it does now.
The Dark Knight is one of the best superhero movies that has ever been made, but we need to temper our enthusiasm for it a little bit.
Temper our enthusiasm? Never! HA ha ha ha
I too found the movie highly overpraised and overrated. The only good performance was by Heath Ledger and even his performance got a bit repetitive. I also think his performance was brought up a notch or two by everyone else around him acting horrible. As for Christian Bale, I just don't see it. I think the guy is a capable actor, but I just don't see what's so "great" about him. He's actually one of the worst Batmans I've ever seen. That terrible "Dirty Harry" voice he did was awful and horribly annoying. The movie could've used some more editing. They could have gotten rid of that first hour and it wouldn't have hurt the movie at all. I liked "The Incredible Hulk" and "Iron Man" a hell of a lot better.
Like Japanese avant-garde artist Tarō Okamoto once said, "Art is an explosion."
I really liked it but thought it made more sense the second time around. Comic book movies should be a little more straightforward right off the bat. (whoops ha-ha)
Bale is worse than Clooney?
I must say, I was underwhelmed too. It seemed disjointed. And the ending didn't make sense. My wife, my daughter and myself all commented that we weren't sure it was even over. Just confusing.
I don't think it's overrated at all. (Although I thought the truck-chase was overlong and overblown). But, still, I think it's in a class with A Clockwork Orange as a dystopian vision of feral man. No, really.
I loved this movie. Generally, I am annoyed that Hollywood is more concerned with getting across their message, rather than just presenting a compelling story. I suppose that's because the message is usually some leftist cause that I find repugnant, and it is usually clumsily slapped onto its host, providing no purpose other than to disrupt the narrative. The Dark Knight was an exception, and the message was so integrated into the plot that it didn't interfere. Or perhaps it didn't bother me because it was a message from the right.
I was surprised it didn't get more press for what appeared to me to be a clear metaphor for Bush's war on terror (I think I only found one story about that). There are too many parallels for it to be an accident. I know there are a lot of my lefty friends who loved this movie. I haven't pointed out these parallels, because I don't want to ruin it for them.
The ending made perfect sense.
The people of Gotham were on the verge of losing all sense of hope after the Joker's brutal, insane campaign of terror. So, learning that a public hero like Harvey Dent had become a murderous villain (Two-Face) would have pushed Gotham completely over the cliff. Which is what Joker wants.
Hence, Batman was willing to sacrifice his rep by being the fall guy for Dent's death to keep Gotham's hope alive. Thus, he is the hero even though the public currently views him as the villain.
The sad truth is that heroes dont' always get the ticker tape parades they deserve, but they do the right thing anyway. Hence, Batman is worthy of the label, hero.
It's definitely been my favorite comic book movie so far. I really got into comics because of Batman Begins and from everything that I've read Batman wise (classics like the Long Halloween, Batman Year One, and The Dark Knight Returns) The Dark Knight is the most faithful to the character. At the same time as Matt says, the whole story strikes a tone with the post 9/11 world. I've seen the movie a dozen times and you could call me a fan, but I'm a fan because the strength of the story and its message.
I understand that part of the movie, the over all theme. It just didn't seem like the movie ended where it should have. I remember my wife asking why I changed the channel, I said because it was over. She didn't believe it, so we backed it up, and that was it.
It very well may have been some cinematographic artistic thing was going for, and it just didn't click with me. If I don't "get" something, I don't automatically assume it's some one else, I make enough mistakes in life to question my own opinion.
But the timing, the tempo, I don't know the industry term for it, but it just didn't work for me.
a good, not great film…
More interesting as a cultural and political template of the last years of the Bush era than a true 'superhero' film, 'Dark Knight' suffers from a convoluted third reel and incomprehensible action sequences- how many SWAT team members can be easily dispatched in short order; an overused action cliche'. Still the bravura opening sequence and the nuanced take on 'W''s stand alone vigilantism make this a must see…
Now, if Chris Bale would just 'give it a rest' for a while…
GRRRRRR! Sorry, but I'm totally biased when it comes to Christian. He had me at Newsies! Silly I know, but true nonetheless.
The Dark Knight is great, but Batman Begins is better. Nolan actually makes you believe that a person could evolve into a cape wearing vigilante, and you want to believe it.
-"This is a world you'll never understand, and you always fear what you don't understand."
This movie worked on every level. Great script, great acting, great story and execution.
But Ledger made this movie. Ledger's Joker was the deepest and most depraved villain I have ever seen on film. It really sucks Heath Ledger is gone now, I say that for purely selfish reasons. When he told Batman that they were "…going to do this forever" I was hoping they would.
Best Scene? Too many to count. My favorite, though, is the PRISONER'S DILEMMA on the ferrys!
Tiny Lister was as scary as Ledger's Joker – we KNEW what he was going to do, but he doesn't do it.
Thematically, TDK and Gran Torino were the two most socially relevant films of 2008– better than any of the schlock that got nominated for best picture. I can't believe that Nolan and Warner Bros. could possibly allow such a– dare I say it?– conservative film to be released.
I saw something the other day about how The Dark Knight was about the escalation of terroristic violence because of Batman's extreme methods. It's the complete opposite of that. The Joker would have existed with or without Batman. I found his first monologue to the collected crime heads of Gotham poorly acted and written at first because I didn't realize that he was lying. The whole film he lies, playing off of Gotham's salient concerns and turning their ire falsely on Batman, even though Batman has nothing to do with his existence.
The final act, and the final monologue of the film sums it all up so well: we don't deserve an easy, clean-cut solution to terrorism. While Dent passionately calls for people to rally behind the only person who can stop the Joker, the whining children of Gotham can't see beyond their own immediate fears: "No more dead cops," they cry, as if Batman's resignation would suddenly end the Joker's career as well. In Gordon's final speech, he perfectly describes the past seven years of the war on terror. The only way we will survive is if we let the man the public hates do what needs to be done; during the day, we will conduct a witch hunt for him and scrutinize everything he does, but when we sleep at night, we rest upon the safety garnered by his accomplishments, we are at peace because of his brutality.
Anyone who can't see that the film is an applicable metaphor for George W. Bush is a blind fool.
Well put.
The film fleshed out true good and evil. The evil being the complete mayhem and murder just for the sake of mayhem and murder. As Alfred said, "Some men just want to watch the world burn". Ledger's Joker did just that. He was frightening and deeply layered and he stole every scene he was in. The good wasn't as free to be the all-American, apple pie good like Superman. The Joker on the other hand had no restrictions, nothing to stop him from doing whatever he wanted.
Batman was good because he was ready to sacrifice himself to save Gotham. That meant he'd be hunted as a villain instead of hailed as a hero, and he made that sacrifice without hesitation. How many would choose to do that? Especially when you're the hero?
Big fan of this movie…
really? I thought DK was better than BB… it pretty much put the message out that we need "Good" to fight "evil".. even if we have to make sacrifices to show the good in people? (Final scene with batman, the two ferries, the Lamborghini crash, Gordon jumping in front of the bullet, Dent telling Batman to go rescue Rachel, etc.)…
Throughout the entire movie people, and it wasn't just Batman, were making sacrifices for the good to survive.
Great post, couldn't agree more.
In honor of the Dark Knight's first year, I popped in the Blu-Ray last night.
If any of you have the means, I highly recommend it — the picture is immaculate.
I think Dark Knight makes Begins a better movie. Begins was a great introduction on how Batman came to be Batman. But Dark Knight gives you a deeper look into what Batman truly is. Again, I don't think they could've done that without Ledger's Joker. Joker actually forces Batman to be Batman. No such opposing force existed in Begins, and while it was a great movie, it didn't help you understand who Batman really is.
The Joker not only makes us see Batman, the real Batman, he makes Batman see himself as he needs to be. Without an arch villain to make him be the hero that Gotham needs, Batman is just a vigilante in a cape with a lot of toys (man I want a Tumbler….). Joker reveals Batman's real self.
The vertical 180-degree flip the 18-wheeler did was probably the coolest, most unexpected thing I;ve ever seen on a screen!
Spiderman II
I think that is one of the best movies ever.
Agreed
I didn;t like BB as much as TDK because of how Ra’s al Ghul was portrayed (regardless of Liam Neeson's fine performance). He was changed to the head of an assassins guild instead of who he really is, “the Demon’s Head,” a villain who has lived for centuries thanks to his continual rebirth in “Lazarus Pits.”
And what’s really fascinating about TDK is that the focus of the movie is not quite the Joker — at least I thought so the first time I saw it — though you think it would be, and the deserved praise of Heath Leger seems to demand it. Nor is it Batman himself. Rather, The Dark Knight is really Harvey Dent’s story (superbly performed by Aaron Eckhart). He’s the type of hero you wish we’d have in real life: a crusading DA who’s not afraid to do what needs to be done—and is not afraid of the consequences. He’s a hero who looks evil in the eye and wants to obliterate it.
Harvey Dent, James Gordon and Batman formed an uneasy crime-fighting triumvirate, where each member has different methods: Batman’s is vigilante justice, Gordon’s is his badge and Dent’s is the weight of the law. It works—and it needs to continue working, which is why the tragic ending is so poignant.
You should…I love twisting their tails over this.
And the look when they can't argue themselves out of it….Priceless!
Spiderman 2 was pretty good, but it's not nearly as layered and fierce as TDK. The spiderman franchise is way softer and if you're looking for a predictable story than Spiderman is it. Not saying that's a bad thing, Spiderman has always been my favorite superhero. But TDK is on a totally different level.
Take away the costumes, makeup and toys and you still have a great story about true good vs. real evil.
My superhero rankings:
1) Spiderman
2) Batman
3) Green Lantern
4) Ironman
5) Captain America
Wow, are you sure you saw the right movie???
Have to agree about Bale's voice. I understand he has to disguise it so he stays unknown and all but growling??
Anyhoo, sorry you didn't enjoy the movie as much…..
Those scenes were frightening, because of our knowledge of human nature, or rather, what we are TAUGHT about human nature. When Lister comes menancingly and silently demands the control, and the man mutely GIVES it over, we are reminded of how fear and cowardice can make us weak. When Lister throws it through the window, we are reminded that hope lies in the simplest of actions.Lister's character KNOWS what is right, and doesn't need to analyze it, maybe because he sees everything in terms of black and white, with no shades of gray.
My favorite is when the Joker is telling Rachel Dawes how he got the scars. The camera spinning around them, the music building in a twisted crescendo. It was such a sad story and totally compelling and believable……and you knew he was lying……
Interesting take.
I feel that each character made everyone else's better. It wasn't the whole, but a combination of all the little pieces that makes this movie work so well. If one were missing I think the movie would have been less.
Except for Maggie Gyllenhal….I could do without her droopy-faced snark…….kudos to the Joker……
Good Article-Big Mo nice add
Personally I liked BB better-correction I enjoyed BB more because it was so refreshingly but, TDK was wonderful. I did get invested in Katie Holmes as the love interest and it did throw me off having the replacement MG. The death might have been more compelling if I had felt that sense of loss completely. Ya so I am shallow and I think Holmes is a babe so I did focus on the step down.
Now that the hype is basically over and done with, it's interesting to watch TDK and see how it stands on its own. I have enormous respect for any Hollywood cash cow that is driven by ideas like Nolan's Batman films, and there are sequences in TDK that are extremely compelling.
But I don't think it's nearly as good as everyone else. The third act is a complete mess. It's unnecessary and heavy-handed. I recognize the intent behind, for instance, the set-piece involving the ferries, but it was too much. And don't tell me that it was required for the arc of the story. Ever hear of rewrites? Plus, it ends the wrong way. That's not what would happen in that situation, and while the proper outcome may have been too devastating for some, it was the only way to do it.
Also, the dialogue in places is pretty bad. As William Goldman once said, subtext is key to good writing and yet all the themes are right on the surface thanks to conversations in which the characters explain the meaning to each other. Often, the best kind of writing is about what you're NOT saying. Still, it's a solid piece of filmmaking and I'm glad it exists.
One final note: There is no difference between art and entertainment. If I watch a heavy-going "art film" and find the experience moving and thought-provoking, I'm still being entertained. It's just not the same kind of entertainment that Star Trek provides.
So, because you waited 11 months to see it, we have to temper our enthusiasm?!
Just kidding. I've had the same experience with other movies.
I also didn't see TDK until DVD, and I thought it was amazing.
Spiderman 2 is second place for me , BTW, as far as superhero movies. Very close, though. I feel like they're two sides of the same coin, and represent two nearly perfect ways to make a superhero movie.
Spidey's less brooding, more fun, but dark in spots.
Oh, totally. I thought it was so obvious, I can't believe someone wouldn't pick that up.
I loved it. Saw it at full price 3 times (never happens!) Y'all have deconstructed it beautifully, so I'll leave that alone and just say that I loved Batman, I loved the Joker (you know what I mean), I loved Alfred. I could have done without Katie.
Did I mention that I loved TDK?
Thanks for the article & the conversation!
I agree. Excellent production value to be sure, but it went on forever, and the ending really made no sense,
So treat them like children and lie to them because the truth would be too hard?? They already live in the most crime-riddled, freakish city on earth! They've got Catwomen! Penguins! Evil clowns! Finding out the D.A. was an insane criminal ain't gonna break 'em!
"The could have gotten rid of that first hour and it wouldn't have hurt the movie at all."
I hope you don't really believe this…
The night is always darkest before dawn.
One of the best movies never to get a Best Picture nom.
The first time I saw it, when I heard that awful, atonal howl at the start, I thought the soundtrack was broken. What a great way of unsettling the audience from the first second of the film onwards.
Ledger was in a sense a terrorist because he just wanted to watch the world burn. But the question is, why? We know conventional terrorists use religion or money or the freeing of their bretheren from jail. They all have a reason for their actions.
The Joker doesn't really tell you why he wants to watch the world burn. You think he does when he tells the gang boss about his scars, maybe he was abused by his father and went nuts. Then he tells rachel Dawes a completely different but equally hard story. So you never really understand why he "……just does things…."
And THAT is what makes him so terrifying, more than any terrorist. He doesn't even know what he's going to do. When he tries to get Batman to break the one code he's got and Batman doesn't take the bait you can almost hear the Joker's admiration, he really does believe that Batman completes him.
Just a great movie that I can talk about all day…..oops, it seems I have!!
An amazing film, to be sure.
The thing that sets this apart and still makes me excited to watch it again (about 15 times now) is that Nolan seems to be the only person to have actually "gotten" what makes the Batman mythos so appealing and relevant.
It may not seem so on the surface, but these films are horror movies where you root for the monster. When Batman systematically sucks the bad guys into the darkness in "Batman Begins", I was actually afraid for the Scarecrow's henchmen. And the Joker was a remorseless killer wrapped up in a put upon civility that disarmed his prey. The harbor scene was a less elaborate, but more emotionally fueled "Saw" trap. Gotham City is a dangerous, scary place – one that no other director has been able to properly portray.
My favorite choice of Nolan's was to have so much daylight in Gotham. It made the rise of The Joker that much scarier – like you're not going to wake up from THIS nightmare.
C'mon. Batman Begins is on Mount Rushmore. Though i have never attended Comicon so whaddo I know?
The Dark Knight reminded me why I loved movies in the first place. A great story with great acting and special effects that don't make it look like a glorified cartoon. Might have to watch it again this weekend.
Clockwork Orange! Intriguing…..I had not thought to lump those two together, but I can see it. Do you think the Joker had Beethoven's Ninth Symphony playing in his head….hehe
It was most definitely art. any creation that sheds light on the eternal is just that.
There is a road from the eye to the heart that does not go through the intellect. (G. K. Chesterton)
Okay I'll give you that. He was not declaring a Jihad or anything like that… exactly. Just watching the world burn. I have to disagree about him not knowing what he was doing. He wasn't without twisted plots and plans. The boats and bombs, the costume for the hospital and even the grenades under his coat so he could exit the crime boss meeting. He knew what he was doing and was well prepared but I think the point is WE had no clue what motivates him – exactly – so we had no basis for seeing what was coming next.
I'm motivated to get the Blu-Ray now myself… wait a minute… is this blog a trick by Big Hollywood to sell Blu-Ray disks!?!?
Yes! I could not agree more. This current series is the best at capturing the true darkness of the Batman mythos. I'm also glad I was not alone in seeing the similarity to the Saw movies.
*grins* Have done that to a few as well. Priceless indeed! gotta love that open mouthed stare…
I would say that "The Dark Knight" is the best Batman movie ever made but not the best superhero movie. Heath Ledger is wonderful as the Joker but Christian Bale's performance leaves something to be desired, particularly his "mangry" voice. I also found Maggie Gyllenhal rather grating. Pacing definitely needed work. There came a point where I thought, "That's it. The movie's over," but it wasn't. It just kept going and going. Good, but not the best.
In my opinion, the best superhero movie would be "The Crow." James O'Barr wrote the original comic in an attempt to deal with the death of his girlfriend after she was killed by a drunk driver and the result is filled with a raw emotional power that few stories have. The director wisely chose not to tamper with the story too badly. The actors all did marvelous jobs. It's just a great film all around.
If you limit the scope to just the recent crop of superhero movies, then I would say the best is "The Incredibles". It's a classic, well written story with great acting.
Perhaps we only saw a portion of Ra's al Ghul. A picture of a single moment in time, so to speak. Such a character may take a bit more than one movie to fully unfold. But then I'm only speculating.
it should have been shot in the big city,,, nyc,,,thats gotham city….not chicago ..what a joke…
Ledger probably wouldn't have gotten *quite* the level of praise, but the buzz was there before he died. I followed the movie casually throughout its production, and fans were getting more and more excited with reports from the set that he was turning in a particularly noteworthy performance. There were high expectations for his portrayal pretty early on.
What a great piece, Mr. Patterson. I had given up all hope for the comic to film concept after Superman Returns. Your observations tempt me to give Dark Knight another watch, and I have seen it three times. Even I thought Jim Gordon was dead even though it could never be, because that character is so essential to the Batman legend. But wasn't it cool to see the great Senator Patrick Leahy stand up to Joker? er, I mean, he tried to.
Actually, the Satan comparison also struck a chord with me after watching the film. Remember that Satan lies! When the Joker went on and on about "schemers" and "planners" and how he was for chaos, he was obviously lying given the fact that we saw him do nothing but scheme and plan from the very start of the movie – the elaborate bank heist. Next he’s targeting public officials, planning elaborate vehicle mayhem, kidnapping Harvey Dent and whats-her-name and – after claiming that he wasn’t a schemer – setting off explosions at the hospital after creating a diversion around the Wayne Enterprises weasel. The whole “agent of chaos” speech was just to break Harvey Dent’s will and convince him that nothing mattered anymore. That’s ultimately the Devil’s greatest trick – convincing people that he doesn’t exist.
"Finding out the D.A. was an insane criminal ain't gonna break 'em!"
I'm not sure that was the point, exactly. That's what the Joker wanted to do, break the people's will. But the movie demonstrated, through the prisoner's dilemma on the ferries, that people are decent at heart.
What happened in the end was Batman didn't want his work to be undone. He didn't want to go back to the way things were, with him able to scare criminals but unable to work during the day, in the light. And he didn't want Dent to have died in vain, his memory could be used to further the cause.
What's truly ironic is that lib critics, like the one I read in Entertainment Weekly, thought it was "subversive" for going after illegal wiretaps and domestic spying. How blind they can be sometimes.
Along with the first few seasons of Battlestar Galactica, The Dark Night is the best the entertainment industry has done portraying the Age of Terror. Imagine that, movies actually being relevant to what's going on in the world and thrilling at the same time (or simply good, unlike Lions for Lambs et. al.)
Gary Oldman's portrayal of Gordon does not get enough credit for this movie. His overwhelming guilt over Harvey's fall (he stubbornly refused to see that the leaks and double crossers were not coming from the D.A.'s office, but his own special task unit, despite Harvey telling him as much for the first 2 acts) is overlooked by most viewers.
"We have to save Dent. I have to save Dent", "I'm sorry Harvey… For everything!" and his speech at the end are some of the most emotionally powerful lines/scenes to me in the entire film.
I have the DVD. A better endorsement I cannot give… Okay, I also have AVP: Requiem, so I'm not perfect.
In all seriousness, I liked Ironman better.
The Dark Knight is one of the best superhero movies that has ever been made
One of?? One of??? Thems' fighting words
(Okay, I'll admit, Batman has always been my #2 favorite superhero (right behind "pre-soft" Captain America)
Okay, archer.. which ones do you rank better?
No love for 1978's Superman?
Damn…
You are absolutely right. For some reason, that movie pops back into my head every now and then and I think about what the movie means. I've never compared it to Lucifer and Jesus, but I think you nailed it. Batman is incorruptible as was Jesus and the Joker is Lucifer, an agent of chaos tricking people and cornering them to do his bidding playing off of greed or self envy. That scene on the boats was incredible and I wonder what I'd do in that same situation. The Joker/Lucifer almost won when Batman almost turned himself in to stop the terror, which was certain to increase if he did so. It sends a strong message: No matter how badly you get beaten or how badly you feel, you can never surrender to evil because it will only get worse. And also, sometimes you have to bend the rules and pass a patriot act to catch the bad guy as Batman did with the phones.
What a great film!
really? I thought DK was better than BB… it pretty much put the message out that we need "Good" to fight "evil".. even if we have to make sacrifices to show the good in people? (Final scene with batman, the two ferries, the Lamborghini crash, Gordon jumping in front of the bullet, Dent telling Batman to go rescue Rachel, Fox not liking the surveillance but going through with it anyway, etc.)…
Throughout the entire movie people, and it wasn't just Batman, were making sacrifices for the good to survive, even when the "masses" where whining for the "easy" solutions..
"I hope you don't really believe this…"
Absolutely. Like maatkare said, excellent production value, but it went on forever. This could have been avoided had they cut out a huge chunk of the first half of the movie. And I stand by what I said, that everyone was terrible in this overhyped flick except for Ledger. Bale is horrible, maybe not as bad as Clooney, but he's a terrible casting choice for this. He seems to be trying too hard. I'll gladly take "Iron Man," "The Incredible Hulk" or the first two "X-Men" films over this.
"Bale is worse than Clooney?"
AS bad for sure.
Good stuff.
I liked Mark Twain's depiction of Satan in Letter's From The Earth. Satan is routinely banished from Heaven into the dark and cold for a short period [thousands of years to us], before God populated it with stars, planets, energy and matter, for his "loose" tongue.
Twain's big bang description in the book seems as valid as anything out there:
"The Creator sat upon the throne, thinking. Behind Him stretched the illimitable continent of Heaven, steeped in a glory of light and color; before Him rose the black of night of Space, like a wall. His mighty bulk towered rugged and mountain-like into the zenith, and His divine head blazed there like a distant sun.
When the Creator had finished thinking, He said, "I have thought. Behold!" He lifted his hand, and from it burst a fountain-spray of fire, a million stupendous suns, which clove the blackness and soared, away and away and away, diminishing in magnitude and intensity as they pierced the far frontiers of Space, until at last they were but as diamond nailheads sparkling under the domed vast roof of the universe."
I find the sudden changes in aspect ratio a little jarring. Otherwise you're right, well worth owning.
ooooh The Incredibles is should absolutely be on the list. Just a great, great movie.
The Crow was ok, the bad guys ruined it for me. Swallowing a .45 round just made them seem cartoonish. Brandon Lee knocked the character out of the park though. I own the DVD, and I like it but it's not on the same level as TDK for me.
But yeah man, The Incredibles was awesome I always felt they could make that a franchise and it wouldn't lose any steam.
ooooh The Incredibles should absolutely be on the list. Just a great, great movie.
The Crow was ok, the bad guys ruined it for me. Swallowing a .45 round just made them seem cartoonish. Brandon Lee knocked the character out of the park though. I own the DVD, and I like it but it's not on the same level as TDK for me.
But yeah man, The Incredibles was awesome I always felt they could make that a franchise and it wouldn't lose any steam.
I'll give you Superman 2….
"KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!!"
"Okay, I also have AVP: Requiem, so I'm not perfect."
Don't worry. I paid full price for "Starship Troopers 2".
"Okay, I also have AVP: Requiem, so I'm not perfect."
Don't worry. I paid full price for the DVD of "Starship Troopers 2".
You're right, the guy was prepared.
must…….buy…….blue…….ray………
I saw this movie for the first time recently when it finally made it to HBO. I had heard all of the enormous hype and was, frankly, expecting to be let down. Much to my surprise, the film actually exceeded my expectations.
I believe the film was so popular because it worked at three different levels.
1. If you just wanted to see an excellent, summer action movie with cool action sequences and lots of explosions, you were satisfied.
2. If you just wanted to see an excellent screen adaptation of a comic book character/story, you were satisfied.
3. If you wanted to see a movie that probes deep philosophical questions and moral dilemmas about right and wrong and good and evil, you were satisfied.
I am so glad to see this. I thought maybe I was reading things into TDK that were not there but Leger's Joker was a terrorist. He is truly scary from the moment he performs his "magic trick" because you realize (like the others in the room in the movie) that he has no limits. In that way he even reminded me of the Jigsaw character in the Saw movies. Then he lies about what made him the way he was and people seemed to be tempted to be sympathetic. It's almost to a point where I was wondering who was going to pop up and start going on about reaching out to his troubled mind and understanding why he was the way he was.
Then you have Batman who is the only warrior (soldier) standing in the way of this terrorist and the rest of civilized society. He is made out to be the villain just like some try and make our troops out to be. His hands are tied by the people he is fighting to protect and even the people saying that his actions are causing The Joker's is such a parallel. In the end Batman isn't given the hero's welcome home that he actually deserves but metaphorically spit on.
For me this is one of the best movies period because I don't take preconceived notions of what a movie "should" be with me into the theater. I recognize what I expect it might be and that categories exist and some fit into them but this one was a cut above being crammed into a box as "just another superhero movie" in my opinion.
Yeah, the voice was beyond terrible. At times, he sounded like Scooby-Doo!
I don't get how anyone who watched TDK could seriously be saying these things. After thinking it all over, I think everyone in that movie had an impressive performance, including Bale, who is definitely a heck of a lot better than Clooney (or Kilmer, if you ask me). While I don't care for him as a person, I do believe he is a talented actor, including as Batman. The only legitimate criticism I can think of is that Harvey Dent/Two-Face wasn't teased out enough (as might be expected, given time constraints) and should have had his villain side left for the future. That's about it. And as for cutting out the first hour–then we would miss the Joker impaling a guy's head with a pencil!
Frankly, I find people with a motive to be much more dangerous than those without. We talk about fearing ythose who have peered into the abyss, and come out with a smile on their face believing nothing they do matters. But give me a nihilist over an ideologue any day.
I have to disagree with your opinion of the ferry scene. It's like what the post above said; you KNOW what the people on the ferry are going to do, but they don't do it. The best part is where you see the middle-aged civilian with the detonator in his hands, trying to make himself push it, but he realizes the enormity of the death sentence he'd be issuing and can't go through with it. Nolan's entire point there, I think, was to show that, while people's souls are flawed and far from spotless, they are not nearly as brutish and black as the Joker wants them to be. Even in such a situation as that, where there is no reward to be gained from being virtuous, where certain death is staring them in the face, people will still do the right thing sometimes. Not always, but sometimes. That's the whole reason for Batman's existence: to provide an example to people, to encourage them to follow the "better angels of our nature," as Lincoln put it. Your evaluation implies that there's no hope, no virtue in the human soul, at least not under those circumstances; if so, what's the point of Batman trying at all?
"One of the best movies never to get a Best Picture nom."
And that is what I hate about Hollywood. They all are determined to see themselves as avant-garde artists, by definition unpopular in the public at large, and ignore the fact that they are involved in a business. They can't stand to nominate a popular movie, even if it was genuinely good, because that would ruin their elitist image of themselves, so they deliberately ignore it and instead nominate movies like "Milk" and "Slumdog Millionaire," which might be good in quality themselves but which no one had heard of prior to their nomination. I can't stand it…
The Dark Knight is 2 3rds of a Great Movie. Everyone doesn't seem to notice how weak the final act is.
Also, regarding the whole Satan comparison, I don't think Satan see's himself as an "Agent" of Chaos. I believe that he and all of the greatest evildoers in history believed what they were doing was fully right, and just. After all, that Evil is Deadliest which contains the most share of good.
I agree with the analysis of the Joker and his chaotic nature being Satanic. But what gave the film the odd "gravity" that couldn't be readily grasped was the fact that there was no obvious antidote to this chaos, like in the old days of good vs. evil. I saw a world of despair, valueless, without beauty, embodied in the hopeless, dour, emotionally flat personality of Batman.. A world with no purpose standing against chaos, but only halfheartedly, with nothing really to offer in its place. Batman seemed to be fighting for nothing more than his next paycheck. Like Father Karras in the Exorcist. He didn't really have anything against the Joker. It just seemed uncool to be leaving bloodstains all over the subway platform. The message I get from this movie is that there is no hope. Just equilibrium.
And by the way, this movie is overrated on account of Keith Ledger being in it, and Brokeback Mountain, you know, the greatest movie ever made that nobody talks about anymore, that was given the big award by the elitists for its political message, not its real value.
And since we were caught up in the hoopla of Ledger worship at the time, it seems only right that we revere TDK as the other greatest movie ever made, because Heath was in it.
I disliked the movie intensely…and all I saw while watching Heath Ledger's Joker was Al Franken, who is now my senator. Aaargh.
[...] HOLLYWOOD’s Matt Patterson has an absolutely terrific look back at last year’s cinematic juggernaut, THE DARK KNIGHT. “There was something [...]
Love reading your stuff Mr. Patterson, you are right on. Now I have to watch TDK again.
There isnt a Harvey Dent without Billy Dee. "This Joker is getting worse all the time".
I'm from New York. I'll see your Franken and raise you a Chuck Schummer.
Same here! The 12-year-old girl in me just makes it impossible to watch him objectively.
Completely agreed. I loved this movie, and I thought it was one of the best films I'd seen in a really long time, especially considering it was a comic book movie.
I saw this film on opening night (well, the midnight release the night before), and you should have heard the reaction in the theater to the pencil. It was perfectly synchronized: a loud, audible gasp, a beat or two of silence, then hysterical laughter and cheering. Definitely an unforgettable on-screen moment.
I personally don't like the Spiderman movies. They're okay, fine to the see the one time, then never again. Batman has always been my favorite superhero. Like my brother says, "he has the greatest super power EVER: money!"
I just watched this on DVD for the first time the other night. EB510 (and others) comments are spot on. In general, the movie had some interesting sequences but despite (or because of) the length, the technology, and the numerous subplots, something was missing at its core. It's just doesn't come together coherently. Also, a movie can be "dark" without being tedious. And Ledger's performance was nothing special. Gary Oldman was good as always. Too bad Eric Roberts, the uber B-movie villain, didn't get more screen time–he might have saved it!
I could not agree with you more. When the lights came on I wondered about visting Rotten Tomatoes to read the reviews and find out how the press would write about such an obvious link to the War on Terror and George Bush…well…they didnt. Really amazing. I love having a conversation with my lib frinds about the film..listen to them praise the filem and then watch thee jaws clench when I bring up the GWB link. . Makes them squirm.
One of the most awesome things about Christopher Nolan's Batman films is the progression of the theme of how society deals with criminals.
In Batman Begins, Ra' al Ghul explains how criminals thrive on society's need to understand them. Then — to advance that theme — the Joker in The Dark Knight spews different sob stories to his victims.
The films go so far to mock root causes. I love that.
Whew, i'm glad I read the whole thread before replying. I just needed to hear you say that Clooney was worse.
I'd say it was unexpected if it hadn't been in every single trailer I saw.
I'd say Schubert.
That would be cool.
She really is the poor man's Katie Holmes.
Good point. I hadn't made the connection that while he professed to be an "agent of chaos", everything he did was planned out to the last detail. A depraved sort of order, but order nonetheless.
In that case Iron Man must be a close 2nd. Money, how boring is that?
[...] to today, and which fellow BH contributor Matt Patterson so eloquently examined in his post The Dark Knight: Year One, what would you NOT do to stop Heath Ledger’s Satanic megalomaniac [...]
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