Michael Moore Kills Capitalism with Kool-Aid
by Michael CovelA friend recently invited me to a private screening of Michael Moore’s new film, Capitalism: A Love Story. The September 16 invite, not surprisingly, leaned in a certain direction:
“Moore takes us into the homes of ordinary people whose lives have been turned upside down; and he goes looking for explanations in Washington, DC and elsewhere. What he finds are the all-too-familiar symptoms of a love affair gone astray: lies, abuse, betrayal and 14,000 jobs being lost every day. Capitalism: A Love Story is Michael Moore’s ultimate quest to answer the question he’s posed throughout his illustrious filmmaking career: Who are we and why do we behave the way that we do?”

Considering Moore was going to be there for a Q&A after (moderated by Arianna Huffington), I quickly signed on. Now before painting a picture of Moore’s new film, let me be honest: my belief set is essentially libertarian (”Government out of my bedroom and my pocketbook”). Not only do government solutions not excite me, they scare the living blank out of me. Remember when George Bush declared, “I’ve abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system to make sure the economy doesn’t collapse”? He might as well of said, “Hide your money, kids — ’cause I’m coming to take it!”
Oh sure, in theory I would like to see everyone with their own homestead, money in their pocket for regular shopping frenzies, and no health worries despite eating at Burger King 24/7, but arriving at those goals is not exactly doable unless government robs Peter to pay Paul and/or starts up the printing press.
And that view of course puts me in opposition to Moore since he has no problem with government as his and our father figure. That is his utopia. He truly believes that warehouses of federal workers, in Washington, D.C., remotely running our lives is the optimal plan. He is an unapologetic socialist who really doesn’t care why the poor are poor or the rich are rich, he just wants it fixed. So not surprisingly — and with some generalization as I proffer this — Democrats like Moore and Republicans don’t.
However, I was excited to see a “mainstream” film that was backed by big Hollywood bucks conclude capitalism is “evil.” Arguably the most successful documentarian ever — a man who has made untold millions of dollars — was going to legitimately make the case that there was an alternative to capitalism. I sat down in a packed Mann’s Bruin Theatre in Westwood, California, eager to see how his vision could possibly flesh out.
Moore is a rather simple guy. He is likable. He sees the world as good guys (people with no money) and bad guys (people with money). His Flint, Michigan, union-worker upbringing is his worldview. If you did not have that upbringing or if your life started less severe than his, you are an evil capitalist. If, on the other hand, you are a laid-off factory worker with a sixth-grade education, you are a true hero.
I don’t care one way or the other that he has that view and I am not knocking union workers, but Moore sees the world through a class warfare lens resulting in a certain agenda: force wealth to be spread amongst everyone regardless of effort.
Within minutes it was clear where Capitalism: A Love Story was headed.

We listen to heartbreaking stories of foreclosed families across America — but we don’t learn why the foreclosures happened. Did these people treat their homes as piggy banks? Was there refinancing on top of refinancing just to keep buying mall trinkets and other goodies with no respect to risk or logic? We don’t find out.
We meet one family that is so desperate for money that they were willing to accept $1,000 for cleaning out the house that they were just evicted from. Was it sad? Yes. But should we end capitalism due to this one family in Peoria, IL?
We are introduced to a guy whose company, called Condo Vultures, is buying and selling foreclosed properties. Since he acted like a used car salesman, the implication was that he was an evil capitalist. However, Moore doesn’t tell us if his buyers were “working-class” people making smart buying decisions after prices had dropped.
We listen to Catholic priests who denounce capitalism as an evil to be eradicated. What would they put in its place and how would the new system work? The priests don’t tell us.
We learn that Wal-Mart bought life insurance policies on many workers. We are then told to feel outrage when Wal-Mart receives a large payout from an employee death while the family still struggles with bills. I saw where Moore was heading here, but is this a reason to end capitalism?
We hear a story from a commercial pilot so low on money that he has to use food stamps. Moore points out that many pilots are making less than Taco Bell managers and then attributes a recent plane crash in Buffalo to underpaid pilots. This one crash is extrapolated as yet another reason to end capitalism.
I was pleasantly surprised at Moore’s attempt at balance. For example, he included a carpenter who, while boarding up a foreclosed home, says, “If people pay their bills, they don’t get thrown out.”
There is also a dressing-down of Senator Chris Dodd (D) by name. Moore called out a top Democrat? He sure did. He nailed him.

There is a lengthy dissertation on the evils of Goldman Sachs. He rips Robert Rubin and Hank Paulson big time, and I agree with him. In fact, I said to myself, “Moore, you should have done your whole film on Goldman Sachs!”
Throughout the various stories and interviews he also weaves a conspiracy theory (all Moore films do this). The plot goes something like this: America won World War II and quickly dominated because there was no competition (Germany and Japan were destroyed). We had great postwar success where everyone lived in union-like equality. Jobs were plentiful and families were happy. However, things started to go bad in the 1970s — here Moore uses a snippet of President Carter preaching about greed. This clip was predictably building to Moore’s big reason for all of today’s problems: the Reagan Revolution.
Moore sees Reagan entering the scene as a shill for corporate-banking interests. However, everyone is happy as the good times roll all the way through into Clinton era. Moore does take subtle shots at President Clinton, but nails his right-hand economic man, Larry Summers, directly as a primary reason for the banking collapse. While Moore sees Japan and Germany today as socialistic winners where corporations benefit workers more than shareholders, he sees America sinking fast.
So is that it? That was the proof that capitalism is an evil to eliminate? Essentially, yes, that’s Moore’s proof.
What is his solution? Tugging on your idealistic heartstrings of course! Moore ends his film with recently uncovered video of FDR talking to America on January 11, 1944. Looking into the camera, a weary FDR proposed what he called a second Bill of Rights — an economic Bill of Rights for all — regardless of station, race, or creed — that included:
- the right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
- the right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
- the right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
- the right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
- the right of every family to a decent home;
- the right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
- the right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
- and the right to a good education.
As FDR concluded and the film ended, I was shocked at the reaction. The theater of 400-plus spectators stood and cheered wildly at FDR’s 1944 proposal. The questions running through my head were immediate: how does one legislate words like useful, enough, recreation, adequate, decent, and good? Who decides all of this and to what degree?
Interestingly, during the Q&A, Huffington and Moore discussed bank-failure fears during the fall of 2008. They asked for a show of hands of how many people moved money around or attempted to protect against a bank failure. I had the only hand that went up.
FDR’s plan, hauled out by Moore six decades after it was forgotten, reminded me of another interchange — this one from the 1970s. Then talk-show master — the Oprah of his day — Phil Donahue was interviewing free-market economist Milton Friedman and wanted to know if Friedman had ever had a moment of doubt about “capitalism and whether greed’s a good idea to run on?”
Friedman was quick in response:
Is there some society you know that doesn’t run on greed? You think Russia doesn’t run on greed? You think China doesn’t run on greed? … The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn’t construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn’t revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty you’re talking about, the only cases in recorded history are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worst off, it’s exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear: that there is no alternative way so far discovered of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system.
Donahue (and the video of this on YouTube is classic) then countered saying that capitalism doesn’t reward virtue, but instead rewards the ability to manipulate the system. Friedman was having none of it:
And what does reward virtue? You think the communist commissar rewards virtue? … Do you think American presidents reward virtue? Do they choose their appointees on the basis of the virtue of the people appointed or on the basis of their political clout? Is it really true that political self-interest is nobler somehow than economic self-interest? … Just tell me where in the world you find these angels who are going to organize society for us?
Friedman’s logic was what I was remembering as a theater full of people cheered wildly for a second Bill of Rights. How did this film crowd actually think FDR’s 1944 vision could be executed? Frankly, it was clear to me at that moment that capitalism is on shaky ground. From Bush “abandoning” capitalism to bailouts for everyone, to Obama gifting away the future, we seriously might be past the point of no return toward a socialization of America.

Figuring someone else must see the problems with this film, I started poking around the net for other views. One critic declared that the value of Capitalism: A Love Story was not in the moviemaking, but in its message that hits you in the gut and makes you angry. This film did not make me angry, but it did punch me in the gut. The people in that theater with me, including Moore, were not bad people. They just seem to all have consumed a lethal dose of Kool-Aid.
At the end of his Q&A, Moore pushed the audience to understand that while they don’t have the money, they do have the vote. He implored them to use their vote to take money from one group to give it to another group. Did he really say that openly with no ambiguity? Yes, sadly.




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I truly feel I would hurl if I saw this film. This guy needs to move to China. Mr. Moore, leave our Country!
Michael Moore is a one man freek show! I cannot stand the guy.
Michael Moore is a one man freek show! I can not stand the guy.
Capitalism has done nothing to help Michael Moore. His labor union pays him the "decent" wage of millions. He lives in an open commune and shares all he has. His employees are treated as equals, and he started an orphanage.
His is just a decent man who practices what he preaches.
or so he would have us think.
I’ll believe his crap when he forgoes his own profits. The colossal hypocrisy of this man is an incredible thing to witness, and to believe there are people who view this swill as fact, it’s no wonder this country is upside down.
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I grew up in the same type of atmosphere that Moore grew up in, Son of a ST. Louis UAW autoworker. The abuses I saw by the union and their thugs drove me 180% in the opposite direction of Moore.
I grew up in the same type of atmosphere that Moore grew up in, Son of a ST. Louis UAW autoworker. The abuses I saw by the union and their thugs drove me 180 degrees in the opposite direction of Moore.
Hmmmm, let's see now. Mr. Moore makes a film. Mr. Moore declares that capitalism has done nothing for him and that we should find all the greedy pigs and take their money from them. Mr. Moore calls on the rich, famous and powerful and in his best imitation of croaking frog calls them out. Finally, Mr. Moore takes his film on the road and actually sells tickets, rather than allowing the general public to see his work free. (There are people out there who cannot afford tickets…) By the very act of selling tickets, he has profited. What a freaking hypocrite!
Moore moved his postproduction company to Canada to avoid US taxes. He owned Halliburton stock. NOw he says capitalism hasn't done anything for him except make him worth $50 million?
What a lying sack of excrement.
Why doesn't HE spread HIS wealth around?
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Liberals never, never, ever practice by example what they preach. One easy way to spot them.
Another is their lack of logic in approaching any problem. The words 'unintended consequences' do not exist in their vocabulary.
As for Michael Moore, why would anyone waste their time watching his tripe, much less spend good money to do so? What a colossal waste all around.
(if you wish to be snarky and substitute 'waist' for 'waste' feel free.)
My dad started his retirement from GM yeaterday. He was visited by some guys "from out of town" that extolled the virture and "health benefits" of taking early retirement.
He decided that he was one of those who would be targeted and that eventually they would fire him if he tried to stick it out.
This is merely an opinion but it was deleted from Newsmax and it is a worthy read:
9/29/09 11:37 PM Obama Risks a Domestic Military ‘Intervention’
Page 1 of 2 http://www.newsmax.com/john_perry/obama_military_...
John L. Perry
Obama Risks a Domestic Military ‘Intervention’
Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:35 AM
By: John L. Perry
There is a remote, although gaining, possibility America’s military will intervene as a last resort to resolve the
“Obama problem.” Don’t dismiss it as unrealistic.
America isn’t the Third World. If a military coup does occur here it will be civilized. That it has never happened
doesn’t mean it wont. Describing what may be afoot is not to advocate it. So, view the following through
military eyes:
Officers swear to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” Unlike enlisted
personnel, they do not swear to “obey the orders of the president of the United States.”
Top military officers can see the Constitution they are sworn to defend being trampled as American institutions and enterprises are nationalized.
They can see that Americans are increasingly alarmed that this nation, under President Barack Obama, may not even be recognizable as America
by the 2012 election, in which he will surely seek continuation in office.
They can see that the economy — ravaged by deficits, taxes, unemployment, and impending inflation — is financially reliant on foreign lender
governments.
They can see this president waging undeclared war on the intelligence community, without whose rigorous and independent functions the armed
services are rendered blind in an ever-more hostile world overseas and at home.
They can see the dismantling of defenses against missiles targeted at this nation by avowed enemies, even as America’s troop strength is allowed
to sag.
They can see the horror of major warfare erupting simultaneously in two, and possibly three, far-flung theaters before America can react in time.
They can see the nation’s safety and their own military establishments and honor placed in jeopardy as never before.
So, if you are one of those observant military professionals, what do you do?
Wait until this president bungles into losing the war in Afghanistan, and Pakistan’s arsenal of nuclear bombs
falls into the hands of militant Islam?
Wait until Israel is forced to launch air strikes on Iran’s nuclear-bomb plants, and the Middle East explodes,
destabilizing or subjugating the Free World?
What happens if the generals Obama sent to win the Afghan war are told by this president (who now says, “I’m
not interested in victory”) that they will be denied troops they must have to win? Do they follow orders they
cannot carry out, consistent with their oath of duty? Do they resign en masse?
Or do they soldier on, hoping the 2010 congressional elections will reverse the situation? Do they dare gamble
the national survival on such political whims?
9/29/09 11:37 PM Obama Risks a Domestic Military ‘Intervention’
Page 2 of 2 http://www.newsmax.com/john_perry/obama_military_...
Anyone who imagines that those thoughts are not weighing heavily on the intellect and conscience of America’s
military leadership is lost in a fool’s fog.
Will the day come when patriotic general and flag officers sit down with the president, or with those who control
him, and work out the national equivalent of a “family intervention,” with some form of limited, shared
responsibility?
Imagine a bloodless coup to restore and defend the Constitution through an interim administration that would do
the serious business of governing and defending the nation. Skilled, military-trained, nation-builders would
replace accountability-challenged, radical-left commissars. Having bonded with his twin teleprompters, the
president would be detailed for ceremonial speech-making.
Military intervention is what Obama’s exponentially accelerating agenda for “fundamental change” toward a
Marxist state is inviting upon America. A coup is not an ideal option, but Obama’s radical ideal is not acceptable
or reversible.
Unthinkable? Then think up an alternative, non-violent solution to the Obama problem. Just don’t shrug and say,
“We can always worry about that later.”
In the 2008 election, that was the wistful, self-indulgent, indifferent reliance on abnegation of personal
responsibility that has sunk the nation into this morass.
John L. Perry, a prize-winning newspaper editor and writer who served on White House staffs of two
presidents, is a regular columnist for Newsmax.com. Read John Perry's columns here.
© 2009 Newsmax. All rights reserved.
To echo a few comments here…Moore and Huffington and all of the other rich Hollywood types supporting and preaching socialism should begin by spreading their wealth around. I spread my "wealth" around to organizations that I deem appropriate. They could do the same. Nothing's stopping them except their own greed.
My Inlaws are like this. They're good people, but they see the company owner as evil, and the worker as good and oppressed, They were raised this way, and no amount of logic will sway them from this idea. It all just have/have not jealousy.
There is a part of me that is too exasperated to argue with indoctrinated leftist drones over specific manifestations of their insanity – it is like debating Salvadore Dali on the meaning of the melting clocks in The Persistence of Memory. You can't make rational arguments to irrational people and expect them to change their mind. There is no "mind" there to begin with – only an infantile limbic instinct to blame all the shortcomings of their lives and the world on "greedy" people – people who happen to come up with marketable ideas and products that give others meaningful work.
But to those who see some utopian Hegelian moment in unity for the sake of unity, and who therefore see government as somehow able to give their lives meaning, how can you convince them that such delusions are exceedingly dangerous and misguided? Ninety-nine percent of the time – you can't. But for the one percent of leftists who are able to deprogram on a blog, here goes.
Michael Moore makes the claim (used occasionally by those who are intuitively against any notions of American exceptionalism) that America only ascended to superpower status after World War II due to the decline of Germany and Japan. Now did Germany and Japan decline on their own? No – America defeated them militarily!
America did not defeat Germany alone, to be sure. The Brits and the Russians, among many others, helped defeat it. But what did America do after Germany's defeat? It installed the Marshall Plan – billions of dollars used to rebuild Europe. The U.S also defended Europe from further forcible Russian occupation. This cannot be argued against unless you are a thoroughly indoctrinated drone.
During the Cold War, the United States footed much of the security bill for Europe as it rebuilt. This allowed the Europeans to develop all manner of socialist welfare programs and to temporarily sustain them economically. American not only did not get credit for preserving the peace and defending Europe from Soviet encroachment, America was condemned for some imaginary form of "neo-imperialism." Certainly, the fence put up around East Berlin was meant to keep people in, not to keep "evil" American capitalism, with all their MREs and chocolate bars, out.
[Continued below.]
I lost the article when my old PC crashed…but I believe Michael Moore actually grew up in a comfortable middle-class home, not the "blue-collar" union house he claims.
Like all Marxist leaders–Lenin, Ho, Mao, Castro, Che, etc.– Moore is a product of a "bourgeois" background. Their education and relatively comfortable position combine to make the Michael Moores of history take the arrogant view that they are the only people who can "save" the workers, who are of course deemed too stupid to see for themselves that socialism is their salvation. The narcissistic "vanguard theory" of Marxism is justified by the altruistic goal of bringing about a classless utopia…in which Moore, Stalin, or whoever will continue guiding The Revolution for the good of all.
But hey, Moore is only a film-maker–it's not as if we have a an over-educated utopian socialist occupying the White House…
I do not support talk of a military "solution" to the Obama problem. That cure would be worse than the disease.
I don't know if it's appropriate to post this kind of thing here. I know that a lot of people, including myself, have thought about the ramifications of such action. For the record, as a former military type individual, I don't think the military will act on behalf of the Obama administration against the populace. I believe they would mutiny. The outcome of a coup, here, would be very scary to me. I don't know their full intentions and would they quickly restore constitutional government. I get uncomfortable even talking about it. Still, I really don't think this is the forum to postulate on this.
Is that a pilot with a commercial rating or a working commercial pilot? Big difference. Commercial pilots make fairly good money. Compared to a Taco Bell Manager?…….puh-lease.
When he had his TV show on NBC and Bravo (I think, it might have been on BBC) "the ugly truth". He forbade his writers from joining the Writers Guild Of America.
If he's suck a pro-labor warrior, why the fuss?
Let's not speculate on this here, friends. It is unbecoming and may give people the wrong idea. Conservatives support the Constitution, and most have nothing against Obama personally. It is the fact that the Constitution keeps getting trampled by this administration that is problematic. And it has happened before. Recall the Alien and Sedition Acts circa 1798. They led to the discrediting of the Federalists and John Adams' defeat in the next election.
His mere presence makes me nauseous. He is a menace and the fact that people pay good money to see his propaganda amazes me. How can an individual who says capitalism is evil benefit financially by his bonafide crap and insane rantings.
I do wish people would stop calling Micheal Moore's movies documentaries. In my own view, documentaries are balanced. Micheal Moore's movies are propaganda, nothing more.
I would rather walk on hot coals than see this movie. When does Moore move to Cuba?
Thanks for playing the spoiler and running through every scene so the public does not see the film. I will see it anyway. Moore is one of few that has the guts to speak truth to power while other cowards try to rationalize the evil perpetrated upon them as the "best of the worst systems." The first step to enlightenment is seeing the problem for what it is. It is easy to dismiss the misfortunes of others until the wolf arrives at your door. And don't worry, the wolf will be making the rounds as this "greatest depression" of capitalism unfolds. It is telling how we condemn the average guy for needing help or healthcare while big corporations down on their luck get trillions of taxpayer dollers with hardly a whimper from these so called "libertarians."
Perhaps you are thinking of the China from 50 years ago. China today is possibly more capitalistic than the US.
You can bet hollywood is working on a movie with just this plot as we speak.
Don't ask me how it ends though.
We'll have a revolution before we have socialism. There is no such thing as a point of no return.
There was plenty of opposition to the stimulus that your guy Obama and the democrat Congress rammed through against the wishes of 'these so called "libertarians."'
And the same pack of wannabe dictators is doing their dead-level best to ram down our throats a so-called 'healthcare' that will destroy the best healthcare available in the world.
One of your liberal 'unintended consequences' you people never bother to think through.
Thank you, Writer_X. My thoughts exactly. Moore should give away all his money, crap and clout (how about pay off my near-useless Humanities MFA in creative writing?) and put whatever his soul is where his mouth is. Move to Cuba and see if he can make a living to buy a 1950s sedan or a shed to live in. Try tying inner tubes together and sneaking out of Utopia to sneak into Florida of all places. Hell, try smuggling in a video camera and approaching Cuban leaders with that smug attitude. I'm sick of Michael Moore. I'm with the author here on Libertarian values: Government out of my bedroom and my wallet. To that I'd add, out of my uterus, off my deathbed.
I think everyone should take the money they would spend on a ticket to see this movie and give it to their local homeless shelter, food bank, etc. I think that would make Michael Moore very proud. NOT!
EXACTLY!
What's sad is that most Americans aren't educated enough to discern that this issue is from government,not capitalism.
Government employees are the ones who gave trillions to the bankers against our wishes.
Government is the one who demanded that banks give loans to unworthy borrowers(Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac).
Government is now keeping interest rates artificially low which will eventually destroy our dollar.
capitalism would have let the banks fail and someone would come and pick up rthe pieces.
Unfortunately we collectively "don't get it" and will suffer from the next waves of bureaucrats and their bright ideas.
The key to wealth in any society is productivity, not jobs per se. As long as productivity is rewarded, a society will always prosper. When productivity is not rewarded, the result is rationing of resources. Taking care of individual needs is a never-ending saga of standards. How much to eat and what kind of food? How fancy of a place to live? What kind of car to drive or to drive at all? Health care is no different.
But in the first place we must have a productive society with incentives for that productivity. This movie does not seem to address any of these issues.
So I was watching Bill Mahr last night (I like to study the competition). He had Krugman and Eliot "call girl" Spitzer talking about executive compensation being out of control with CEOs making 550x the average wage. I sat there thinking how much more Bill made than the lowest paid member of his crew. I'm betting at least 100x and maybe even 500x. How many actors get paid $20M for a movie and their makeup artist makes $2k?
While liberalism is certainly noble in idea, application is quite another matter. It's too idealistic and UNREALISTIC to believe that everyone can have a piece of the pie when they don't work for it. His babble only reinforces what others want to hear, not the truth. What incentive is there to work and be better and get ahead of the game when you know someone is handing you a free ticket? I guess I was liberal when younger, believing that I could change the world and my voice was heard. Then I grew up. The older I get, the more disgusted I become with these self righteous boinkholes who shove their ignrance down our throats. I will not choke on Michael Moore or the likes of other Hollywood pseduointellectuals who (some) barely got out of highschool to pursue their dream in a capitalistic industry and then they have the audacity to complain about it! He needs to shut the piehole.
[...] this link: Michael Moore Kills Capitalism with Kool-Aid This entry is filed under America – Blogs, Big Hollywood. You can follow any responses to this [...]
reasonjester: I thoroughly enjoyed your posts above (they are very well written), and I couldn't possibly agree more with you. It is absolutely frightening to me to see the general direction our great nation is currently heading. Like Reagan, I too believe that individual responsibility/accountability is the only way for a nation to truly prosper. I love this country and what it, well…used to stand for – so much so that I joined the Marine Corps upon graduating college. Not to mention the fact I noted that, as an individual, I was in needed additional discipline, work ethic, and leadership instilled in me. Good thing I did, because 9/11 occurred shortly thereafter (and I was afforded the opportunity to defend our nation in Iraq '03 & Afghanistan '04). And I'm a much better man now because of my efforts. (Continued below)…
That was beautiful. Thank you.
Michael Moore claims to speak for a lot of Americans, but where are all his supporters? I don't see too many of them on this discussion board. Anderson Cooper calls Moore out in this video: http://bit.ly/3g6OU
Old fat and and full of doughnuts, crybaby and ex union-worker Michael Moore Will never get me to pay to watch his films.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Dan Brown, ende, aschendel, Liberty Ideals and others. Liberty Ideals said: A Libertarian reviews "Capitalism: A Love Story" #libertarian http://bit.ly/4sgpWL [...]
Towards the end of the film, Moore focuses on Bush's fear mongering to pass the bail out. He failed to mention Obama's fear mongering to pass the trillion dollar stimulus just weeks later. (3 days into his admin.)
Or the second stimulus. Or third.
Towards the end of the film, Moore focuses on Bush's fear mongering to pass the bail out. He failed to mention Obama's fear mongering to pass the trillion dollar stimulus just weeks later (3 days into his admin.) and benefited his supporters.
Or the second stimulus. Or third.
Truth? Now that's laughable. He makes his money off the very system he is trying to dismantel. He out right lied in "Sicko" about the American Health Care system. Neglecting all the problems with Socialist Health Care around the world such as long waiting periods and the fact Canadians come to America for proceedures they can't get or have to wait for years to get in Canada. Capitalism works. It's not capitalism that keeps people poor, it is give away programs designed to keep people ignorant and dependent on government. Welfare, food stamps and other give away programs have bankrupted many cities in America. The problem with socialism is when there are no longer anyone out there with a good enough job to pay the taxes needed to keep up all the so called poor that refuse to work the system collapses and everyone is now poor. You may like to live under a system that wants everyone to be equally miserable but I sure as hell don't!
My friend rented "Sicko" for us to watch a few years ago. She isn't a Moore fan but was courious. I don't think I've ever yelled at a t.v. so hard as I did seeing that piece of propagada garbage. It was full of out right lies and half truths done to support his ideology. These movies are not documentaries, they are fiction designed to influence those people who do not know anything about issues or politics. If Moore was forced to live by the ideas he preaches his fat bloated self would explode. He belongs to the "do as I say, not as I do" crowd.
I will see the film. I always jump outside my comfort zone when seeking opinions because I know that my side is not always right and the "other" sides are not always wrong. However, I abhor in-your-face, sympathy-seeking crap like this. Why should I be lectured by Mr. Moore about wanting to earn a good living when I also use part of that salary to better my own community? Why is it any of his business what I use my hard-earned salary on? Why is it my responsibility to make sure that the entire country is well-fed, well-cared for, and sitting in their own home? Can't we just celebrate the 20-30 people I do help with my donations instead of attempting to make those of us who invest or even draw a non-union salary guilty for not giving more? Will those who need this message the most even hear it? Nope. The looneys who want everything for free, a la FDR's non-defined "adequate" and "ample", will take away that we should have socialism, and that it is everyone else's fault that we don't have it.
The only takeaway from Moore's films is that personality responsibility is dead. Of course, that's not your fault. Blame the man, dude, blame the man.
Let's see the problem for what it is, then. Party of Haliburton, meet party of ACORN. In your world of corrupt corporations, the federal govt. is the largest and most corrupt of them all. There wasn't an Ocean's 11 of corporate CEOs who broke into the U.S. treasury and stole your tax dollars. Both parties of congress voted, with the support of Bush AND Obama, to GIVE them that money.
You're proposing that we guard the proverbial henhouse from corporate foxes, and I can agree to that. Where we disagree is in the idea that the government wolf can be trusted as a reliable watch dog.
When you're watching Moore demonize corporations for the "dead peasant" life insurance, remind yourself that some of those evil companies use the money to fund their pension programs for the surviving retirees. My, how wicked and cruel of them. Let's outlaw that despicable practice, and destroy thousands of pensions to make certain that a few crooked CEOs get what they deserve.
Betcha I can find an honest businessman faster than you can find an honest politician. The only exception would be if I was forced to look for the honest businessman in Hollywood.
The condemnation of capitalism can be summed up as in, "he's rich and you're not. Let's GET him!"
Excellent work. Very reasonable.
So, I wonder if the socialist Moore paid his PA's the same as his DP? Or paid his key grip the same as craft services? I wonder if he paid any of his crew the same amount that he will pay himself? Wouldn't that be fair? Wouldn't that be equal?
I'd like to see Moore try to convince a director of photography with years of experience and a great amount of responsibility to accept the same salary as a production assistant by explaining to the DP that it's "fair."
I don't buy that. I think each and every one of us has the potential for good and evil, and which direction we go in is up to each of us. If human nature were truly so evil, how could there ever be any good in the world? I don't think even God, assuming for the sake of argument that he exists, could manage that.
Don't give Hobbes too much credit. He thought that the government should be a Leviathan given absolute power over us. I don't recall reading *that* in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. I recall the words "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness", as derived from John Locke's inalienable rights of Life, Liberty, and Property.
"Who we are and why we behave the way we do?"
Hmm. A while back a guy wrote a book that pretty much nailed that one.
The book was "Human Action" and the guy was Ludwig von Mises.
It uses some pretty big words, though, so Moore probably wouldn't be able to get through it. Plus, I don't think Moore will like the answers to his questions that von Mises gives.
Just one taste: "The market economy becomes a chaotic muddle if this predominance of private property which the reformers disparage as selfishness is eliminated. In urging people to listen to the voice of their conscience and to substitute considerations of public welfare for those of private profit, one does not create a working and satisfactory social order."
I pretty much opened "Human Action" at random and found that quote.
Any priest, ESPECIALLY a Catholic priest, tries to lecture me on the evils of capitalism had better be Father Mulcahy ( and a LOT bigger) and ready to put up his dukes. "Hey Father, where do you think all those poor box donations come from?" "Where do the weekly donations come from for the collection plate?" "Are you donating church land to the dispossesed?" Nooooooo.
I have never, ever been lectured at sermon about the evils of capitalism or the benefits of socialism.
Full Disclosure: I am R. Catholic
Which brings us to Japan. Anyone who is not a complete fool can see that America dropped the atomic bombs on Japan to prevent even more casualties that would result from an invasion. The specifics can be legitimately debated, but there should be no mistaking two points: The first is that Japan initiated the war against the U.S.; and the second is that Japan would never have surrendered without taking millions of casualties in absence of the use of the atomic bombs.
After the U.S. defeated Japan militarily, again America built the country up economically and footed their its bill. This allowed Japan to grow and become a world economic power – even at the expense of American companies. Surely, this cannot be considered insidious in any form by anyone with their sanity still intact.
The case of Korea is even more stark. The U.S fought off the communist North Koreans and the Chinese to protect South Korea. This military intervention was even underwritten by international law. Today, a satellite picture of North Korea and South Korea taken at night shows the north to be a desolate wasteland, and such South Korean cities as Seoul to be vibrant, industrious, and thriving.
Vietnam is usually the bug-bear of all leftists. In the progressive imagination, big mean America was picking on the poor North Vietnamese national socialists. After decades of defending the South Vietnamese from the designs of Ho Chi Minh, the left was finally able to get the U.S. to depart and embark upon a course of detente with communist countries. The North Vietnamese responded by massacring the Southerners and creating hundreds of thousands of fleeing refugees.
It is ironic that Moore mentions the economics of the 1970s. According to Keynesian theory, the kind that FDR was committed to, the government should intervene in an economy in order to stimulate employment. Inflation (typically created by the central bank by increasing the money supply) is seen as naturally beneficial because it leads the economy along (it encourages spending and discourages saving). Then what explains stagflation, Mr. Moore? This is the combination of massive unemployment and inflation at the same time. According to Keynesian theory, progressive inflation and progressive unemployment, over a reasonable period of time (accounting for lag indicators), is impossible.
Which brings us to the left's bogeyman of Reagan. Obviously, we have to consider who we are arguing with when someone blames Reagan for slashing taxes and cutting unemployment. The typical objection of Reaganomics on the left is, "Sure, Reagan cut unemployment, but the rich got richer and the poor got poorer." But to paraphrase an insight from Margaret Thatcher, the left would rather that everyone be poorer than everyone be richer, if the latter means the rich are more rich.
To argue that building a defense infrastructure that ostensibly led to a devastating arms race for the Soviets was "corporate welfare" is an interesting tell for determining who is possibly a socialist or communist "fellow traveler." What really infuriates the left about Reagan is his anti-government, pro individual responsibility message, which, "heartless" as it is, actually works.
But even more to the point, the Reagan years did not see the type of corporate welfare through injections of easy credit until Greenspan was made chair of the Fed in 1989. (And never mind that the behavior of the Fed, whose very existence is a page right out of the Communist Manifesto, naturally contributes to the effect of making the rich richer and the poor poorer).
The coup de grace to the Michael Moore narrative is exactly how much Obama's candidacy was fueled by "big corporations" like GE, Caterpillar, and Goldman Sachs, and how Obama's administration is thoroughly penetrated with corporate lackies and former lobbyists. Goldman Sachs is deeply embedded in Obama's Treasury and the SEC; and the Wall Street investment firm's management of the $787 billion "stimulus" package is a pyramid scheme so colossal it makes Bernie Madoff's look like a childhood erector set.
If Michael Moore would get off his donkey long enough to take a look around, he will see that his beloved leader is a true fascist, the kind that free market capitalists loathe and despise.
Suffice it to say, if FDR was able to make up such rights as guaranteed employment (which the French tried with miserable results), and the right to a decent home, why stop there? We can make up all sorts of "rights," which completely obliterate others' rights – such as the implied right to determine how one expends one's own labor. Contrived rights cannot violate the individual right to self-determination, or we are no longer speaking of "rights."
We can develop an atmosphere in which people can thrive and prosper, but this is best done by preserving freedom and leaving it up to each individual whether or not to succeed or fail by each person's own standards. You cannot empower human beings by stripping them of their agency. People who want to succeed in America, generally succeed.
j91140, bbtaddpole, sumjedi – BRAVO!! The three of you wrote some real good school book type words there. All great stuff. I'll bring it to a personal level for John re:
The first step to enlightenment is seeing the problem for what it is. It is easy to dismiss the misfortunes of others until the wolf arrives at your door. And don't worry, the wolf will be making the rounds as this "greatest depression" of capitalism unfolds.
In case you haven't noticed, the wolf is in the national hen house already. I have been dealing with a personal economic depression since the internet bubble burst. Before that I spent 20+ years in Hollywood being unsuccessful because I didn't play the prevailing games. I barely scraped by. But in all that time I was struggling with that wolf, I never dismissed anyone elses' misfortunes. I helped several people through their problems even though I had my own. I recognized that the position that I was in (and am again right now) is because of my own decisions and actions in life, based on the choices I had available. But you're right, the "enlightenment" that I received when I was about, ohhh, 20 – that WAS the first step for me taking responsibility for my own life and understanding that no one other than myself should have to take care of my needs. And even though I'm sitting in a mostly empty apartment, typing on a ten year old laptop, and looking at the past due electric bill, I am still a proponent of capitalism because that is the only path for me to get from where I am to where I want to be.
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Now capitalism causes plane crashes…………………………………………………………………….lovely.
Michael Moore is a really big fat waste of perfectly good skin……………………There are alot of burn victims out there who could use it ……………………………………………………………………………sorry.
reasonjester: I thoroughly enjoyed your posts above (they are very well written), and I couldn't possibly agree with you more. It is absolutely frightening to me to see the general direction our great nation is currently heading. Like Reagan, I too believe that individual responsibility/accountability is the only way for a nation to truly prosper. I love this country and what it, well…used to stand for – so much so that I joined the Marine Corps upon graduating college. Not to mention the fact I noted that, as an individual, I needed additional discipline, work ethic, and leadership instilled in me. Good thing I did, because 9/11 occurred shortly thereafter (and I was afforded the opportunity to defend our nation in Iraq '03 & Afghanistan '04). And I'm a much better man now because of my efforts. (Continued below)…
Additionally, as Thomas Hobbes famously wrote, I believe that human nature is brutish and evil at its core (as if the endless current and past examples throughout the history of civilization isn't sufficient evidence of this). So why would anyone, at least those who can think rationally, EVER in their right mind willingly pursue a larger, stronger, more oppressive, controlling, and dictatorial government such as Obama's?!?! The answer is, no one in their right mind would. And such is the disease of liberalism…
You´re a funny guy. Big corporations got trillions from "libertarians"? No, they got it from Big Government.
Moore needs guts to make his agitprop pieces? No, he earns millions, gets an Oscar and a place of honor at the 2004 Democrat convention. He´s not exactly Solzhenitsyn.
What is this problem you´re talking about? This recession is not nearly as bad a the one Reagan inherited (caused by the "progressive" economic policies of LBJ, Nixon and Carter) and without the primitive "progressive" philosophies of the Obama administration it would already be over. It WILL be over anyway, but it´ll be a long time until we see the 4,9 % unemployment of the Bush years. And economic illiterates like you must share the blame for that suffering. What do you say to that?
Since this is 2009, we cannot ignore the countless NGOs that make a living pushing the government this way and that. Same as unions. Sometimes they do good work, frequently not, but the cost is always borne by the private sector. It is in the interest of all people to protect and strengthen the private sector, which means the economic freedom of businesses and consumers. And socialists like "John" would rather destroy it.
Let´s not forget that small/medium businesses employ most people and do most investments, not the corporate behemoths that dominate the news. Corruption is not the problem here; bad regulation is. When they fire people because the cost of compliance with government regulations gets too high, you rarely hear about it. But that´s where our current unemployment comes from.
I must add that I think the original TARP program was necessary to keep the financial sector from collapsing in a panic. But not the subsequent bailouts, government takeovers, stimulus and massive regulation that we are seeing now.
Why a military option is a folly, read Sonic Disruptors by Peter David.
Just a couple of examples of liberal hypocrisy:
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005...
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProf...
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