‘Torchwood’: Pro-American TV — From the BBC
by Leigh ScottI think I’ve found the most pro-American show on television. True to form, its not produced in Hollywood.
Growing up, I was obsessed with “Dr. Who.” In the seventh grade I wore a Tom Baker style scarf to school every day (Baker and Davidson are my favorite “Doctors,” if you understand what that means, feel free to have it at in the comments). I thoroughly enjoy the “reboot” that currently airs on the SyFy channel and recently stumbled across its spin-off “Torchwood.”
“Torchwood” is an odd blend of “CSI,” “The X-Files,” and “Buffy The Vampire Slayer.” It follows the adventures of Torchwood, an above-top-secret agency that monitors alien activity on earth. Their headquarters in Cardiff is above a “rift,” a sort of rip in time and space that lets creatures from other planets and dimensions, as well as other time periods, in and out of our world.
On the surface, the show is very British. The slang, inside jokes, and references are undoubtedly more entertaining to the BBC audience than to the U.S. Syfy Channel audience. There are even references to Welsh characters dreading crossing over into England. That’s how inside it is. Clearly, its not made for us.
The show has numerous interracial, homosexual, and intergalactic romantic relationships (yes, people having sex with E.T.s). The world of “Torchwood” is incredibly diverse, but the series never calls attention to this fact. There are no episodes where the Asian character laments how people don’t understand her culture, or where black characters complain about discrimination and band together to outsmart “The Man.” Race and gender are portrayed in a clearly neutral fashion, true to the American “melting pot” concept and not the divisive “multiculturalism” that sits like a cancer on our society. Everyone is human (unless it’s an alien) and everyone is very, very British.
Everyone is British, save one. The enigmatic Captain Jack Harkness, an extra-terrestrial time traveler with an American accent. He’s the leader of the Torchwood team, and episode after episode he makes the tough decisions, does the ruthless things, and acts in the greater good for the other characters and mankind as a whole. He does all this despite the hemming and hawing coupled with emotional weakness of his European cohorts. Episode after episode the other characters scream and cry and allow their human frailty to jeopardize the planet. Episode after episode Jack Harkness does the dirty work, exposing his wisdom and strength to his associates who ultimately accept and thank him for his decisions. Jack does gain some insight and knowledge from his co-workers’ empathy, but it only serves to make him stronger, never detracting from the mission at hand.
It can’t be a mistake that Harkness is an American, he is the only person on the show who is. In a not so subtle way the shows creators are admitting what a lot of us already suspect; that despite their complaints, objections, and dislike for America and its policies, Europe ultimately needs us. Furthermore, Europe needs the “cowboy” American, and not some mirror image of itself.
John Barrowman plays the omnisexual Harkness with a boyish glee. He displays a love and aptitude for violence. He shoots first and asks questions later. He knows that terrorists, even alien ones, should never be negotiated with or trusted. At times, his brash refusal to display empathy or appease hostile forces leads to personal catastrophes and losses, but at the end of the day, he is right. Evil is defeated.
The show also features one of the strongest, best female characters I have ever seen. Eve Myles plays Gwen Cooper, a former police officer turned Torchwood operative who deftly manages to balance her personal life and relationship while saving the world. She is tough, sensitive, smart, and witty. Despite being the newest addition to the team, she naturally slides into a leadership position when Harkness is out of the picture. Oh, and in season three, she’s an action hero who happens to be pregnant. Sarah Palin would be proud.
The show’s creator Russell T. Davies (the man who is also behind the new “Dr. Who”) may be, along with Joss Whedon, my personal favorite show runners working in the industry today. Both of them chose writers who portray the world not as it always is, but in a romantic way, the way it should be. Their subtle and not so subtle Libertarian political view points are a breath of fresh air when compared to the liberal schlock that dominates most of our industry, especially in hour-long dramas.
“Torchwood” season one and two are available on DVD. Season three’s mini-series “Children of Earth” airs on BBC America starting July 20th.
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180 Comments
Sounds interesting. I shall be looking for it.
The husband and I watched it the other night. Really enjoyed it (well, except for that brief guy-on-guy attraction thing) and now we know why. Thanks for the insight!
Oh, and Tom Baker is my favorite Dr. Who, too. My ex-husband (still a friend) had (has?) a Dr. Who scarf knitted by his now-deceased grandmother. It was, I think, 16 or 18 feet long. I had an all white one, 12 feet long. I wanted the long scarf, but the standard Dr. Who colors didn't "go" with anything I owned at the time, so Grandma went w/ white – because it goes with everything.
I saw season one (series one, as they call it) on BBC America but haven't found the second round yet. And I wouldn't have described the others on the team quite so harshly. They each do their part (mostly). And Barrowman sure plays an American well.
I saw Children of Earth and if it isn't a Hallmark card for anti-police state I don't know what is. I kept thinking that had the citizens had a right to arms there would have been a large bunch of dead jack booted thugs.
I kept saying to myself "How do you like you nanny police state now?" during several key pivotal scenes.
Also the politicians rationalizing a 10% loss and trying to spin it was very much a a biting commentary of the how socialism tries to justify the looses as a means to it's ends.
Nice review, wish you could do a breakdown of all of the themes of Children of Earth..
Also, they were pretty clever with the name of the show, being a spinoff of Doctor Who.
I might netflix it. I hope your right about the strong female leads. Bad female characters always ruin a show for me.
I avidly watched the two short seasons of Torchwood, and am looking forward to its return. Star John Barrowman is a Scotsman who also has American citizenship. He made his bones on Broadway, then went back to the Isles to appear in several well-received London shows. He spends his time about equally between the UK and the US now. He also appeared in a terrible sci-fi quickie sequel called "Shark Attack 3 – Megalodon." He was apparently so bored with the production that he let slip with an obscene line that somehow got left in the PG movie (which I'm dying to repeat, but I won't on a family website). I also like the way they occasionally weave in a Dr. Who appearance on Torchwood, and vice versa.
Ah, yes, "The Line" as we call it in the B-movie world. I won't repeat it either…but it is readily available on youtube. Simply search "shark attack 3 the line". It has nearly a million views. Too funny.
Yes, I love the story of the title. The letters from DOCTOR WHO being rearranged to form the word TORCHWOOD as a decoy name for schedules, equipment, tapes, etc during production of the first season of the "new" Doctor Who. Then it sounded so cool they decided to use the name within the show and then spun it off on it's own. (At least that's the story I got from some behind the scenes show somewhere.)
I remember watching that and catching something and thinking "did I just hear what I think I heard?" Funny now though that I can't even remember what he said.
I love your take on Torchwood, I wonder how the people who make the show would feel about it.
I use to HATE Dr. Who, but the reboot, I fell in love with it and all the spin offs. Torchwood is some of the best writing on TV to date. Compering this show and American TV is like apples and grapes. They introduce a character, in less than 1 hour they make you care about the welfare, and being of the person. I'm a big Heroe's fan, and I still don't like half the characters enough to care if they live or die. I watch it cause..Im a geek…yea yea I also have hope they will hire a writer tha'ts not afraid to kill off the Sylar charater.
Leigh: Thanks for the reference. I think that may be where I first realized it could be located without renting the film, but I couldn't remember how to get to it.
Kelny: See Leigh Scott's note (above). And yes, you did hear exactly what you thought you heard.
Tom. Baker.
And I'm enjoying Torchwood. Anyone else think John Barrowman resembles a young Tom Cruise?
If you close your eyes and listen to him, he sounds like Cruise too.
"Children of Earth" was an amazing event. . . luckily, I have a friend in Britain who recorded and digitized it, and made it available to a few of us over here. . .Torchwood IS refreshing, almost the entire original cast has been killed off. . .and still Torchwood goes on. Season 4 is going to be interesting. . .
I found this interview with Davies here:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/robertcolvile/9...
He expresses the EXACT opposite of what his show conveys week after week; that evil doesn't exist, for if we describe someone as evil we take away the capacity to understand their true motivations.
But then he goes on to say that: "I’m not anti-capitalist – look at me, I’m wearing clothes, I own a house, I’m about to catch a train. That’s what capitalism is – it keeps the whole thing running. I’m against greed, any day. But it’s not a bad society – it’s not that bad. [laughs] There are worse."
I think he may respectfully disagree with some of what I say, but I detect a strong dislike and distrust of government and socialism. I think my libertarian tag is pretty close to the mark.
Technically speaking, Jack Harkness is not an "extra-terrestial". He is human but happens to be from the future. I don't remember which century. He was made immortal when the TARDIS and Rose Tyler became one being known as Bad Wolf, and she resurrected him while restoring planet Earth from Dalek destruction. He chose to settle in 21st century Earth because that's when "everything starts", meaning the secret is finally out to humanity about life on other planets. Back in his own time Jack was/is/will be known as The Face Of Boe, and at some point in his 5 million years of life will become The Face Of Boe literally when he's just a giant head. He finally dies when he tapped out his life energy keeping alive the survivors of New Earth (colonized after the Sun swallows Earth) of a plague.
Oh, I watch Doctor Who from time to time.
Interesting.
Sounds sort of like a British FIREFLY (maybe that's a stretch)–and I'm so needing something to replace my FIREFLY fix. Thanks for the recommendation. I'll definitely check it out.
BBC shows seem to be able to do that… just kill people off or give them some reason to leave and then replace them. Been watching another BBC show called Primeval lately and the leads have all been replaced by I think maybe 15 shows in. It's nice in a way, you can never think things will turn out for the good because the lead can't die.
Heh, I have one of those, knitted by my dearly departed grandmother.. But never been married
Anyhoo, I definitely have enjoyed the recent _Dr. Who_ and _Torchwood_ series, but I saw that my Sci Fi Channel has gone away, replaced by this thing called SyFy.. I don't know what a SyFy is, so I deleted it from my Tivo list.. I do know what BBC America is (and aside from its biased news I'm quite fond of _Top Gear_ and anything Ramsay) so I'll be looking for this stuff there..
I thought he was from the 51st century and from another planet, not Earth. Were the flashbacks with his brother Gray supposed to be Earth in 3000 years? Does that mean that all the Time Agents are human?
In the DVD extras for Season One the show's creator talks a lot about Joss Whedon and how the show is patterned after "Buffy" in a lot of ways. They even cast James Marsters in a recurring role in Season Two (Spike from Buffy).
As a Firefly/Serenity fan myself, I can safely say that you will enjoy "Torchwood".
It WAS a group show. . . .but all the Doctor Who spinoffs, both "Torchwood" and "The Sarah Jane Adventures" involve a team. . .Firefly had Serenity, Torchwood has The Core, and Sarah Jane has her attic and Mr. Smith. . .
They're all worth watching, even if Sarah Jane is aimed at a 'tweener audience . .
And those episodes on Atmos were also pretty genius, global warming doogoodiness leading to Sontaran invasion
BTW, if you ever get a chance to see _Neverwhere_, I highly recommend it, a younger and more vulnerable Eve Myles co-stars.. It was actually a series that Neil Gaiman wrote, then subsequently novelized, and it's available from A&E IIRC…
Ummm….SyFy is what they are calling SciFi now….but I'm sure you knew that already. We LOVE Top Gear!!!
Just watched 2 episodes on our Tivo last night. 
FIREFLY being sort of an American BLAKE'S 7..
(not a snark really, just an observation..)
What was your favorite episode in Firefly?
Yes!!! I said to my husband that he was a cross between a young Mark Harmon and Tom Cruise. Mark Harmon came to mind first, then Cruise.
How the hell do you read that the message of this show is that Europe and in your view the world needs America??
You should definetly watch the later episode and the Doctor Who tie-ins where the UK save the world not US, who are portrayed as bumbelling macho military fools.
Tie between "Our Mrs. Reynolds" and "Heart of Gold". .
All of them. And there weren't enough of them AT ALL!!!
For Doctor Who, I suggest you "start" with the 2005 reboot, Christoper Eccleston as the Ninth Doctor and Billie Piper as Rose Tyler. It's also where we first meet Captain Jack. . .
Good, but of them all, "Objects in Space" and "The Message".
Out of Gas was my favorite. I loved learning the personal histories of the characters. It was a very well made episode.
I'm pretty sure Jack is supposed to be from Earth in the 51st century.
And yes, Time Agents are human. The first mention of Time Agents from the 51st century actually occurred in the Tom Baker story The Talons of Weng Chiang back in the 1970's.
What I want to know is why the 51st century is such a big deal for the Doctor Who universe: a lot of stories, characters, etc. originate there.
Why is the TARDIS still a Blue Police Box ? Why does the Doctor rely on a Sonic Screwdriver and not a Laser Wrench ?? With the "Whoniverse", certain things become tradition. The 51st century is just one of those. . .
Is it just me, or is more and more good television now made somewhere beside Hollywood (or at the very least made in Hollywood, but ripped off from an idea first done outside Hollywood.)
Been watching it since the beginning. I love Torchwood!
I guess I'm the voice of dissent here. Torchwood really disappointed me with its boring characters and storyline. Give me Star Trek and Firefly.
JB was born in Scotland, but was raised in Illinois. The accent is real.
Russel T. Davies is certainly one of the more interesting Liberal television writers working today. He's quite open about his political views in interviews (an avowed gay bush-hating atheist) but has frequently said that he thinks political posturing has no place in good writing. This is clear in his scripts, which more often than not, challenge both Liberal and Conservative viewpoints, but not in a preachy or didactic way.
Leigh, I think you are correct that the Captain Jack character does show RTD's affection for America and the "American character," but I wouldn't take the argument too far. Enough to say that Mr. Davies does not participate in the usual hand-wringing concerning the quality of Western popular culture, a sentiment which usually comes along with a heavy does of anti-Americanism.
Hearing Captain Jack speak really threw me off. A British show in which one of the characters clearly doesn't have anything remotely sounding like a British accent. Wasn't sure if he was actually British or Canadian. When I read about John Barrowman, I was surprised to discover he grew up in Illinois and went to college in San Diego.
Jack is definitely human, definitely from another planet. After 3000 years, there "better" be a lot of colonization.
Barrowman is way hotter, and way less crazy.
"an obscene line that somehow got left in the PG movie"
The IMDb says it's R-rated. That would be consistent with the British 15 and Australian MA ratings they list, so I doubt that it's a mistake.
Barrowman did a documentary exploring what it was that caused him to be gay (genetics, prenatal hormones, nurture) and he used his American accent throughout, except when he called his Scottish parents. Holy cr*p what a difference! Search YouTube for barrowman scottish accent and click on the Wright Stuff clip.
I think Captain Jack is supposed to be Canadian. As for the show… meh.
And ScottDS, since most of the early episodes are lost due the BBC's brilliant idea to erase them, you can't start at the beginning anyway.
You are right. http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Boeshane_Peninsula
All of them. And I loved the movie, Serenity.
You're right. I remembered it being PG, but that was back when it first came out on DVD, and R makes more sense, since even without "the line" it had plenty of violence.
Everyone might also be interested in this short interview clip, where he discusses the film and "the Line."
Everyone might also be interested in this short interview clip, where he discusses the film and "the Line."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMRSwv3QI1k
Actually, Captain Jack is from some human colony world. But as part of his backstory, he took the identity of an American volunteer for the RAF in the early part of World War 2. . .and stuck with it. .
No, the point is that the world needs people who take sure and direct action – regardless of nationality – to defeat evil, not sit down and negotiate with it. I don't recall an episode of the new Doctor Who series, or Torchwood for that matter, where the UK saves the world.
I love Torchwood as well as the new Doctor Who. One word of warning Torchwood is not for kids. I can watch many episodes of the Doctor with my daughter, but Torchwood has themes that are not always for the younger crowd.
What kind of self-professed Dr Who "obsessive" gets Peter Davison's name wrong?
Tsk tsk…
Tom Baker here as well – but the reboot takes first place overall.
Torchwood, btw, is an anagram of Doctor Who – and it first appeared in reboot season #2. Captain Jack made his first appearance in the second half of reboot season #1.
Looking forward to season #5 of DW – I think they resume filming in Spring 2010.
I wouldn't invest too much energy in the "Jack is also The Face of Boe" theory. Sure, there is evidence to support it, but Russell T Davies has been quite pointed in interviews about disclaiming it as definitive.
It's always possible that The Face of Boe was so named by Jack. Remember, in the FoB's time, a 1950s Jukebox was mislabeled an iPod.
In fact, filming of Series 5 is expected to begin any day now if it hasn't already.
Thanks for the positive and even handed review of the show! I've been a longtime fan of Doctor Who and Torchwood, and I was scared that the right wing reaction would be negative. I encourage everyone on Big Hollywood who is not familiar with the series to watch, they will not be disappointed!
The one where the Master comes back and takes over.
I miss Dr. Who … I wish Sci-Fi, er, SyFy (does any else think syphilis when they see that?) would renew it already. Tom Baker IS the Dr. for me, but I love the new series and the new Doctors have been really, really good so far.
I haven't gotten hooked by Torchwood quite the same way, but I'll give it another shot. Maybe I'm just still wishing it would be Dr. Who.
SyFy? Glad I'm not the only one. It was the first thing I thought of. Get the penicillin, Joe's got a bad case of syfy.
The UK doesn't save the world in that episode (Last of the Time Lords), Martha does, by telling everyone on the planet to think about The Doctor at the same time. A metaphor for prayer, which means actually that everyone on the planet saved the planet.
And also The Doctor, naturally, who is definitely not British.
In fact, it's always The Doctor who saves the world, though a few Brits here and there participate.
I Netflixed Torchwood's first season and was kinda grossed out by its insistence on being "adult" (e.g., always going for the naughty stuff) for the sake of being "adult."
But then, RTD also produced "Queer As Folk," so he's no stranger to sexually charged drama.
Does anyone know where I can find the last Xmas special on the Internet? Or do I have to wait for the Series 5 boxed set?
J. Michael Straczynski, creator and writer for Babylon 5, is also pretty openly liberal (though not gay) but he does an excellent job of writing all sides so they are plausible. In fact, Karl Rove told Bruce Boxleitner that he and President Bush were big fans of Babylon 5, which surprised Straczynski. Bad writers trying to push their politics always wind up creating straw men for their side to knock down, which is often pretty awful. Good writers realize that everyone needs a good motivation.
If you want to see an excellent science fiction/fantasy movie that contrasts the European mindset vs. the American mindset (and a European pointed this out to me before I saw it), see the modern-day dragon movie Reign of Fire.
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The TARDIS's chameleon circuit is stuck in that form.
Why a Sonic Screwdriver? Because it's COOL!!!
Well I'd call Farscape more of a Blake's 7 then Firefly.
(ditto on that non-snark) lol
SyFy lost the license to BBC America.
They have already aired the first of the new Doctor Who specials 'The Next Doctor' this month. The next special 'Planet of the Dead' will be airing on the July 26.
Ah. Another reason not to watch scifi channel.
9 to 1 on their own boards hate the "new" name.
Eureka is about all that I make a point to watch now on scifi.
Past; BSG, Dresden Files, Dr. Who
As far as doctors… Eleclson/Tennet. I do miss rose tyler though. jenny, doc's daughter, would be an interesting twist. Capt. Jack is a fun character.
Uhhh. Clearly you have not paid attention to the revived Dr. Who and Torchwood. Russel T. Davies had an agenda with Dr. Who and that was to take all of the good vs bad and subvert it into gray vs gray. Even the Daleks were, early on, played for sympathy! Then there's the fact that Davies drops the gay-agenda into nearly every episode he writes, and even had the Doctor mock Margaret Thatcher, make fun of Americans/Bush, kill off Tony Blair, and direct an ally to drop a missile on Downing Street. And don't get me started on Torchwood. In the first season, there is a same-sex-scene involving all of the main characters, and the two part episode set in WWI where we meet the "real" Jack Harkness an RAF pilot who turns out to be homosexual as well. Then there's the character of Ianto Jones, who goes from breaking the rules to try to save his girlfriend from a cyberman conversion, to flaming queer.
Torchwood could be good, but it's weighed down by the obvious attempts at furthering a gay/leftist/anti-war agenda.
Ditto Joelim.
I'll have to Netflix the series one day. I've heard good things. I am unfamiliar with the actors, except for Burn Gorman who played Guppy in the 2005 BBC adaptation of Bleak House. He was good.
As for Dr. Who, I have no idea where to start! Different doctors, spinoffs, radio versions, oh my.
Yeah. Eureka is the only watchable thing on it right now. However I have yet to see the Caprica pilot yet. That might be good.
Yeah. Eureka is the only watchable thing on it right now. However I have yet to see the Caprica pilot. That might be good.
My bad…typo. I even double checked that one….perhaps a misplaced dilithium crystal in my laptop.
Two points for double geek reference!
I have to agree with everyone who disagrees with the author. Torchwood is hugely disappointing, as often the new Doctor Who series are as well (but thankfully not always). It is thoroughly political, even though it is not overt about it. Mark Steyn has written about the pink mafia that runs the Torchwood/Doctor Who production. I gave it two seasons wanting it to be good but have removed it from my Tivo list. I find the acting wooden and weak, particularly John Barrowman. His smugness just smothers any other attempt to make the character more complex. And as an exemplar of America he could not be more post-American or an image of how the UK cultural elites which we would be. A vain, metroxexual, empty, "man of action" poseur? Well, you could say Torchwood was premature in lauding the America of Obama, but hardly a call to American cowboy greatness.
Oh, and since I am voicing my disappointment about BBC shows, can I just say that BBC America has to be one of the most disappointing cable channels in the history of cable channels? They pick like three shows and run them to death in between home, fashion, and gardening shows. Those shows that are actually good (Royle Family, Peep Show) they show once and then disappear.
Children of Earth was basically an "anti-abortion" mini series from my point of view. Very gripping and at times horrifying. It makes me sick to think of all of the unborn children America aborts each year let alone the world. My best friend edits out the content so thankfully I don't have to see Barrowman naked or swapping smooches with Ianto.
What kind of self-professed, self-respecting Dr Who obsessive gets Peter Davison's name wrong?
Turn in your anorak, old son.
Tsk tsk…
Underwhelmed, I have yet to make through Torchwood's first season, but taking heart that so many of its former detractors have been singing the praises of "Torchwood: Children of Earth," I'm definitely going to tune in when BBC America runs it later this month.
And isn't it amazing that in the future everyone has British accents?? It's a UK-based show! Have you seen Independence Day? Frankly, it's refreshing to see that there's a country out (there that isn't despotic) where its citizens are blindly patriotic. Especially an ally. Good for them!
You want to see Americans portrayed as fools? Watch MI:5. It will make your hair curl. That show has done has much to brainwash the Brits about Americans as any crap out of Hollywood has.
Great, another homophobic response.
Uhm, I take it you missed the part where the American general ordered the soldiers to use lethal force against people trying to protect their kids, and threatened any soldiers who balked with their own children being taken away, rather than making any attempt to fight the actual alien? Not exactly portraying Americans in good light, is it?
I mean, ok it's a British government being protrayed, but I think you can generalise to just about any other government – the moral is that politicians are more concerned with their own skins than with the safely of the people they are elected to represent, and will happily lie to them.
And Jack's not American, he just uses an American accent, most of the time – he actually mispronounces certain words. 'Mum' instead of 'Mom', for example.
Thank you! It's worth pointing out that this is the same writer who gave us the "9/11 was an inside job" screed from Dr. Who (revamp) season 1 … you know, the one where a flying object takes out a landmark and supposedly it's this pig-alien but that's really a setup by these overweight farting aliens in the government who are doing it because there's a recession? It's also the guy who had the arrogant POTUS (the only person who has ever mentioned God directly on Dr. Who) get killed by the alien spheres, and when the Doctor succeeds in rolling back time the President is somehow still dead? And let's not forget, Davies has now established that there is no afterlife in the Torchwood/Doctor Who universe. So, while the whole American hero thing is nice, I can't say I share Leigh's enthusiasm for this show.
@TheaterGeek
Torchwood could be good, but it's weighed down by the obvious attempts at furthering a gay/leftist/anti-war agenda.
Thanks for the warning. I'll pass.
I really like the new Doctor Who, and I've been curious about Torchwood, but almost all of my friends have conveyed the same perspective as TheaterGeek.
I watched one episode, and within ten minutes, two guys started making out. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I guess, but it's not my cup of tea.
But the article here is sort of intriguing. Maybe I'll try the first few episodes on Netflix.
Hey!! I'm thrilled now… I"m not the only one who had a 15+ foot long multi-colored scarf (yes, made by my Grandmother too)… And it was made to match Tom Baker's scarf colors EXACTLY
…. as for "going with" any outfits… Us Whoians didn't care what it matched 
That being said, Jon Pertwee was the bestest (and most under-appreciated Doctor
).
That being said.. I've only ever managed to see one full episode of Torchwood (and I'm not paying the outrageous sum my cable company wants for me to add BBC-America).. but calling the show a "pro-American" show.. I dunno if i can go that far on the clips and stuff I've seen.
Hey!! I'm thrilled now… I"m not the only one who had a 15+ foot long multi-colored scarf (yes, made by my Grandmother too)… And it was made to match Tom Baker's scarf colors EXACTLY
…. as for "going with" any outfits… Us Whoians didn't care what it matched 
That being said, Jon Pertwee was the bestest (and most under-appreciated Doctor
).
That being said.. I've only ever managed to see one full episode of Torchwood (and I'm not paying the outrageous sum my cable company wants for me to add BBC-America).. but calling the show a "pro-American" show.. I dunno if i can go that far on the clips and stuff I've seen.
Hooray!! I"m glad I'm not the only one who remembers/loved Blake's 7… (especially considering they were the first popular series I remember watching that dared killed off main characters at any given time.).
As a kid, my Saturday night watching (on PBS of all things.) was Doctor Who from 5pm to 7:30/8 pm
Brit Coms from 7:30 to about 9:00
hour episodes of Dr. WHo (again) from 9:00 to 10 PM
and then Blake's 7 from 10 to 11…
What little I saw of the last Christmas Special online also had a crack about the Doctor being at the first Easter and implied that the death and resurrection of Jesus was something else. That left a pretty bad taste for me. The one political reference I thought was fine was in the episode Gridlock where Brannigan insists on calling two women the Cassini Sisters even though they say they are married. It was fine because while it suggested there would be gay and lesbian marriages in the future, Brannigan wasn't shown as a bad person for being uncomfortable with it. I'm not all that happy with Jack Harkness and some of the adult themes he introduced into Doctor Who and while I liked the episode Love & Monsters, overall, the hints at sex at the end really felt out of place.
What little I saw of the last Christmas Special online also had a crack about the Doctor being at the first Easter and implied that the death and resurrection of Jesus was something else than what the Bible says. That left a pretty bad taste for me. The one political reference I thought was fine was in the episode Gridlock where Brannigan insists on calling two women the Cassini Sisters even though they say they are married. It was fine because while it suggested there would be gay and lesbian marriages in the future, Brannigan wasn't shown as a bad person for being uncomfortable with it. I'm not all that happy with Jack Harkness and some of the adult themes he introduced into Doctor Who and while I liked the episode Love & Monsters, overall, the hints at sex at the end really felt out of place.
I haven't seen any torchwood yet (its on my list) but the Dr. Who reboot has been FANTASTIC. Regrettably, I've only seen up to the end of season 4 (I think), but 1-4 were great.
As a fan of the old Doctor Who, I watched the first few episodes of Torchwood, and it was a letdown. The new Doctor Who suffers from being "sexed up", and Torchwood even more so. Doctor Who has its parade of tarts for the Doctor, and Torchwood has provided Captain Jack with a mountain of male and female interests. These love interests are crossing all new boundaries to the delight of Davies. Torchwood may need the sex to survive as a sci-fi soap opera rather than quality programming.
I fear that current science fiction programs are not as much fiction as fantasy. I never thought Captain Jack to be much of an American, but you offer valid arguments.
Haven't seen the show but since this is BBC I'd be wary of it. They're hardly known for pro-American stuff.
I agree somewhat with TheaterGeek. Davies' obsession with making sure there was homosexual or lesbian "snogging" in every Torchwood episode wears thin. Burn Gordon's character Owen Harper, the ensemble's only full-time heterosexual, was killed off.
With that (very large) caveat, I agree with Leigh Scott about Eve Myles's otherwise excellent character Gwen Cooper.
Kudos to Leigh Scott also for acknowledging the quality of Davidson's, er, Davisson's, uh, the fifth doctor's work. Most of us Americans underrate him. As David Tennant's tenure winds down, it'll be fun to watch the opinions fly around yet again.
-Tom Williams
Ditto. Most of the actors of that series/movie are in successful series now that I enjoy.
Hard to pick a favorite episode. I saw a preview screening of Serenity before it was done using a different soundtrack and a lot of the "Westernness" was gone. I think the show might have been better off (from a ratings perspective) if it hadn't been so overtly and retro Western.
Hard to pick a favorite episode since I liked them all. I saw a preview screening of Serenity before it was done using a different soundtrack and a lot of the "Westernness" was gone. I think the show might have been better off (from a ratings perspective) if it hadn't been so overtly and retro Western.
Barrowman is also on the Andrew Lloyd Webber reality shows looking for newcomers to star in West End productins – the one they are replaying now is looking for Maria for ''The Sound of Music''. Anyways when we first saw ads on tv for this show my husband was convinced it was Tom Cruise, not John. And he is the Torchwood fanatic in the house. I enjoyed correcting him lol.
You can find it here – http://www.sidereel.com/Doctor_Who_(2005)/_season...
The special is also coming out on DVD September 15.
How did I miss this, and I have scifi playing on my tv in my computer room. What days does it normally air?
Great. Another random cast of the epithet "homophobe" on someone that is probably not in the least AFRAID of gays, but uncomfortable with watching gay men snog.
Grow up, and stop looking for reasons to be offended.
Junie, How lovely for you to conduct a drive-by ad hominem attack. Contrary to your assumption, I am no homophobe. I simply don't find guy-on-guy (or girl-on-girl) action attractive. May I suggest that you actually have your facts straight, or at least ask questions, before presuming to know another's mind? Thanks, sweetie.
As I told my husband while watching an episode a few days ago, he looks like a cross between a young Mark Harmon and Tom Cruise.
The Western flavor was part of the charm for me…and the husband.
You can start at the beginning! Most of the first season is still intact. It's seasons 4-6 that were the most devastated. The Second Doctor in particular is almost non-existent. What short-sightedness on the part of the BBC!
Pretty much everything from Season 7 onwards is intact.
indeed! deep down we all want to be the space cowboy.
>Torchwood could be good, but it's weighed down by the obvious attempts at furthering a gay/leftist/anti-war agenda.
And bless Davies for that….
Captain Jack is not an American, as much as I'd like us to claim him. He's from an Earth colony called the Boeshane Peninsula in the 51st Century and ends up stranded back on Earth because the Doctor abandons him on a satellite orbiting our planet after Jack's been made accidentally immortal by one of the Doctor's other companions.
As someone flippantly pointed out in earlier comments, there's "guy on guy" stuff in this series. There's also girl on girl, and human on alien. Captain Jack is omnisexual. As one of his team puts it, "He'll shag anything as long as it's gorgeous." So do be prepared to come into the show with an open mind. I did, and I loved it for that (and I voted for Bush, both times). They had characters that were beyond sexual labels. And I use the past tense very specifically, because after Season Three, if there's anything left of this show to carry on to a Season 4, it's no longer a show I'm interested in watching.
Still, that doesn't mean you shouldn't watch what has already been aired, on the contrary. The first two seasons are a brilliant balance of light and dark. S3 is just pure nihilism, but it's tightly written, gorgeously shot and beautifully-acted. But also be prepared to watch this show and have your heart torn out if you invest emotionally in characters. They kill off three main characters within a five episode span between seasons 2 and 3, and shatter a fourth character so far you wonder if he/she can ever go back to being the character you first enjoyed.
THIS REPLY CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR SEASON THREE, DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT YET VIEWED
As someone who spent far too much time enjoying Torchwood, I can assure you, there's not same sex snogging in every episode. If you like, I could actually sit down and tell you who kisses who and when – if there's any kissing at all – but I think that's a pointless exercise in nitpicking. Just FYI, there's some heterosexual kissing, two heated heterosexual love scenes (full-on love scenes at that – there's only one gay love scene, and it's interrupted as comedy relief) and a heterosexual wedding, too. My husband, who is "right of Attila the Hun" has watched the show with me, only needing to squirm once or twice in each season (just FYI, I'm also a righty, I just don't believe being homosexual is a problem).
Other minor quibbles:
Owen Harper was not "full time" straight. He shags a man in the very first episode of Season 1. It's part of a three-way with the guy's girlfriend, who he's already sprayed with an alien pheremone to get her in bed with him. When the boyfriend shows up upset that his girlfriend is ditching him at a bar, Owen sprays him, too, kisses him, then gets them all a taxi. I suppose they all could have gone back to his flat to play Scrabble, but I'm thinking otherwise.
The only full-time heterosexual is actually Gwen Cooper. She kissed a female, yes, but the female was possessed by an alien species that killed through sex, and Gwen was under its influence (the old "aliens made them do it!" trope). When the influence was lifted, she pointed out she'd never done it before, and she never did it again, either. She later married her long-time boyfriend.
In fact, after Children of Earth (the full name for Series 3 of Torchwood), many Torchwood fans are disgruntled that the only character who emerges relatively unscathed is the full-time heterosexual, whose marriage and pregnancy are intact. The remaining four primary characters are either dead or have had everything that meant anything to them completely torn asunder. Interesting turn of events when many of the comments that preceded mine point out what a lefty agenda this show has, and how it's helmed by an openly homosexual atheist who forces his politics down the viewers' throats.
The correct ordering of the Doctors by degree of greatness is:
1. Tom Baker
2. Peter Davison
3. Patrick Troughton
4. Colin Baker
5. John Pertwee
6. William Hartnell
7. Sylvester McCoy
No later "Doctors" may be considered, as they are clearly impostors. The real Doctor wouldn't shag his assistant.
If the new "Dr Who" is leftist and anti-American, then I don't see it as more than an afterthought. There is truth that it contains short glimpses that are homosexual agenda related, but it can be easily dismissed. Those who don't like "Dr Who" because it is too liberal or agenda driven must have very thin skins. There is too much to like, compared to the terrible American TV and films that aren't even creative with their politics, ending up essays rather than entertainment. I don't watch "Dr Who" for its politics. I watch it because I genuinely like the wry humor of the Dr. and enjoy the action and adventure.
Torchwood, on the other hand, is hard to watch. Its open political and sexual agenda is so overbearing that it distracts from what could be a fun story about aliens and sci-fi gadgets. As critics have stated, its like watching a cartoon that keeps getting interrupted by adults who want to pretend it isn't a cartoon. I would NOT recommend it, no matter how glowing this review might be.
I agree. It reminds me of Ron Moore, of Battlestar Galactica. While he's a self-proclaimed Leftist, his writing was true to life and many of the episodes written right after 9/11 and the rest during the Bush presidency ended up supporting Bush's policies rather than mock them, which he did on the commentary.
I don't know why everyone is ignoring the pleasure of watching movies about giant CGI Nazi gargoyles. I mean, you can't beat that.
Put Pertwee as number three (just for his car) and I agree. I DEFINITELY agree with the point on shagging. But this is modern Britain we're talking about, so everything has to be soap-opera-ized and dumbed down at least somewhat.
Haven't watched torchword and still need to watch most of the new doctor who episodes but I have to agree with you on favorite doctors. Tom Baker was ridiculous and my first doctor, but Davidson was by far the best character in terms of investment. Favorite companions anyone? Adrik for most ridiculous and Teagan for best overall.
He relies on the Dalek's a little too much in my opinion and the giant farting monsters were unnecessary. That they carried over into The Adventures of Sarah Jane ruined the joy of watching Sarah Jane, still one of the most attractive assistants ever.
I've seen Torchwood: Children of Earth. It aired last week in the UK, and fans kindly posted it to YouTube. (I had to watch it- I'm going to be forced to miss the fifth and final episode next week due to a planned vacation.) It's one of the finest pieces of science fiction drama I've seen in years. It deals with themes of 'disposable people' and undoing past wrongs. And watch carefully the performance of actor Peter Capaldi, he plays a civil servant named John Frobisher. His performance is Emmy-worthy (or, BAFTA-worthy, as they call it in the UK.)
I don't want to give away any spoilers for folks who haven't seen it, but it is an emotionally exhausting story, particularly episodes 4 and 5. You will feel like you've been put through the wringer, but you'll know you've watched a quality drama. And you'll be shocked at what Jack Harkness has to do to 'save the day.' I highly recommend it.
I agree wholeheartedly with bekariss and then by default with Mike. Have you guys ever seen "Curse of the Fatal Death" where Hugh Grant, Richard E. Grant, Joanna Lumley, Jim Broadbent and Rowen Atkinson play the Doctor? I would put all of them above McCoy even based on the couple of minutes of screen time they had in that special.
The Doctor doesn't shag his assistant for romantic reasons, though. The Ninth doctor kissed Rose to extract the time vortex.
Rose shagged #10 only when possessed by Lady Cassandra, he shagged Martha to effect genetic transfer to slow down the Judoon, and Donna smooched him to provide a total surprise to complete his detox.
In other words, they provide tantalizing little snippets for the trailers, but don't amount to "real" snogging.
I don't see much Leftist in the Dr. Who reboot. Especially because in the first Cyberman episodes, the Doctor curses humanity for always falling for the easy save: convert to steel, then you don't have to deal with difficulty. That's more a conservative PoV than leftist.
They might insert an occasional throwaway "leftist" line, but the stories themselves don't push a Leftist agenda. At all.
I think people's reactions to the shows and my reviews speak to a greater issue and a greater discussion. Can something that is atheist and homosexual be, at its core, apolitical or even conservative?
We are so used to seeing these archetypes bundled with ham handed ideology on shows like "Law and Order" that it becomes a bit difficult to process things that mix messages.
And of course, the biggest question of all, how to rectify conservative principals of individual liberty, free market economics and social equality with religion and sexual practices.
you're joking right?
Actually Torchwood is first referenced breifly in series one of the reboot.
I used to tivo this show but stopped when it got too involved with promoting the homosexual agenda. Like most guys I am all for girls kissing and more but I draw the line with guys doing it. Sorry, I just don't want to see that. I can't get past the "yuck" factor.
Strictly speaking the Doctor hasn't SHAGGED any of his companions. He's snogged them sure, but there has never been any indication of sexual activity between any of the companions and the Doctor.
Actually Torchwood is first referenced in the first series of the Reboot. Nothing is explained but Torchwood is mentioned when the Ninth Doctor shows up at Downing Street.
Strickly speaking the Doctor has never shagged anyone on the show. The Doctor has kissed (or been kissed by) all of his female compainions, but there was no sexual activity between any of the companions and the Doctor. RTD has even gone on record saying that there was no shagging in the TARDIS.
No it's not an afterthought. I've watched all the new series that's aired here in America. Think about it did any of these anti-American insults have to be in there? Did they do anything to advance the plot? That means the people who make the show WANTED them in there just to insult America. That's the reason and that's why I'm mad. The new Who series has had some good episodes (surprise the ones that didn't have the gratutious anti-American jabs) but its brought itsself down by several notches for pandering to the left/PC crowd, the samething that nearly destroyed the Star Trek franchise. In my mind the best Dr. Who was the Tom Baker years.
MI:5 started out as a taught, realistic (at least to me) look at the choices and sacrafices people in the intelligence service have to make. However, somewhere around season 3, the show started to go off track and completely lost the plot in season 4(?) where back to back episodes had Mossad agents disgusing themseleves as Muslims and pulling terrorist attacks in London in order to turn opinion against Muslims and a plot where a Christian group decides to start bombing Imams in London. It was that last epsiode equating Christians to Muslim extremists that finally forced me to stop watching.
Got that a little off. The US tries to "save" the world and the macho military Americans are destroyed by the UK who's PM is the alien menace, so technically the UK comes off even worse. Usually the UN comes off looking good, through the auspices of UNET, the UN anti alien agency.
I wasn't a big fan of watching same-sex sex until Captains Jack and John (James Marsters) made out in "Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang" (which was also a great movie!), the first episode of the second season. Anyone know if there's a lost scene of Spike and Angelus having a go? I guess a girl can dream … or fantasize!
Your one of the only people I know who puts both Bakers in the top 5. Most people I know like one or the other but not both. I'd put Davison first, and I'd include Chris Eccleston at 4 or 5 (probably at 4 to replace Colin's perm). He had a more paternal relationship with Rose than the doomed lovers bit from David Tennant. I'd probably slide McCoy up to 5 because his Doctor was a more complex, manipulative character plus he had Ace as a companion and in the early 80's you couldn't go wrong with a cute punk rocker with a penchant for explosives.
You're kidding, right? You wouldn't watch a show (that you presumably like) just because of a minute or two of guy/guy action? is your fast-forward button not working, or are you too stupid to find it?
Coyote, nope. I have been a dancer for 37 years. I've seen my share of gay action, guys and girls. Does nothing for me, and, in fact, it rather turns me off.
Sorry for the double post. I thought the first one hadn't posted. Weird.
John Barrowman is openly gay.
Some of the commentss on here make me sick. What "homosexual agenda"??? I don't hear people screaming hetrosexual agenda everytime a female kisses a male. The very fact that people are put off watching a show because of m/m or f/f kissing, shows that there should be MORE, not less. Thank RTD for creating Torchwood and it's omnisexual heroic Captain, and thank him also for putting as much "homosexual agenda" in DrWho as his can, so that the next generation isn't quite so bigot ridden.
Thanks for the correction. I meant to imply "…and watch the whole thing" but that wasn't clear.
Of course, if you want to get really geeky about it, I think any gaps can be filled in with novelizations. That's the sort of thing I see myself doing when I'm retired and bored out of my mind. Just a few decades to go…
Most of the time. Occasionally he would slip and something slamming the political views he disliked would show up in a scene, and those were the ones that tended to fall flat.
If you believe that some homosexuals are 'born that way', then you should also accept that there are people, perhaps those commenting here about the homosexual agenda, who have an innate repulsion to homosexuality. Nothing to do with upbringing, bigotry, religion etc. We're just born that way.
White goes with everything but non-white furry pets.
(Cue the "Racist!" troll comment.)
Thanks for the correction. I was implying "…and watch the whole thing," but that wasn't clear.
Of course, if you want to get really geeky about it, I think any gaps can be filled in with novelizations. That's the sort of thing I see myself doing when I'm retired and bored out of my mind. Just a few decades to go…
John didn't start out on Broadway. His first stage show was "Anything Goes" with Elaine Paige on London's West End. He's only done two Broadway shows – Sunset Boulevard and Putting It Together. The famous line in Shark Attack 3 is a one-off joke line that he stuck in there to try to get a reaction out of the actress he was working with, who apparently wasn't very good. As he described it, the director wanted him to try to get a reaction, he said "the line" and then "they left it in the frickin' movie!"
One other commenter above kindly provided a link to the interview you're talking about. The guy has a great sense of humor, and was clearly tickled by the host showing the cheesy opening scene from the movie, and then "the line."
You crazy Americans!
Seriously though- 'gay agenda'?
Isn't really about time you stopped worrying about what other consenting adults do to each other in private and, I dunno, get on with your own life?
I love Torchwood- but I am fully aware that it is only a TV show…
It no more promotes a gay agenda than The A Team promoted making DIY weaponry.
Please do a research. Barrowman's portrait of Captain Jack Harkness is not American.
"Despite their complaints, objections, and dislike for America and its policies, Europe ultimately needs us. Furthermore, Europe needs the “cowboy” American, and not some mirror image of itself."
Please, think about the credit crunch and how it started. How can you draw such conclusion from watching a sci-fi drama? I must admit you are very imaginative.
You crazy non-Americans!
Isn't really about time you learned to recognize the difference between what consenting adults do to each other in private and what they do in public on television? I dunno, shouldn't you get on with your own life and keep your private lives private?
I love Dr Who, but I am fully aware that when it began it was basically a children's show that the entire family could enjoy. Now, it's a show that regularly includes gay content, and not just in a matter of fact way but often in a downright salacious manner. That it's primary creative force for the last five years is a gay man is not coincidental.
Were he merely living his own life in private with other consenting adults, I don't anyone would be in the least bit bothered.
Seriously, though – 'no gay agenda'? Homosexuality is just something that happens to people, yet according to Dr Who, in a few centuries from now, bisexuality is the norm. That evolution is pretty potent, huh?
Its more than that. You invest watching a show because of characters. When they do something that sticks in your mind, then much of what they do or say is filtered with that lens. Picture your mother . . . nevermind.
Slapped wristies for inserting the second d into Peter Davison's surname, Leigh.
Glad you like it, although over here we're a bit bemused at some of the reasons!
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"He displays a love and aptitude for violence. He shoots first and asks questions later. He knows that terrorists, even alien ones, should never be negotiated with or trusted. At times, his brash refusal to display empathy or appease hostile forces leads to personal catastrophes and losses, but at the end of the day, he is right. Evil is defeated."
Is that what America stands for? A love and aptitude for violence, to shoot first and ask questions later? To show no empathy, and to write off all losses as OK as long as you're right and the other guy is wrong?
I AM glad to see the BBC place an "American" actor in a role as prominent as Captain Jack (though it's a little undermined by the fact that Barrowman was, in fact, born in Scotland & raised there for the first early years of his life) but to say that Captain Jack is the best representation of the American ideal in heros is ignorant of the fact that a good percentage of the American public is moving away from "cowboy" mentality and towards a friendlier, more open and diplomatic approach to problems. I believe in the case of Captain Jack Harkness, he's not set up just as the epitome of American Hero idealism, but also as a foil against which British idealism is played (to their favor, in my opinion). Someone else said it better when they were summarizing Jacks character: they said he was "dramatic, exciting, and very quietly mad".
Speaking as an American who loves good TV no matter where it's from, I understand that the BBC has a long history of anti-American spin in their media, and that Jack is a welcome change; but I hope he is the first of many that will lead the world into a better understanding of the TRUE American mindset -the hopes and wishes of normal everyday Joes, who are gradually coming around to the idea that Gung Ho! isn't always the way to go.
I find McCoy's era Doctor Who unwatchable—and that's a shame, because I think he's a fine actor and had an interesting take on the character. The story "Ghost Light" gets raves from a lot of fans, and I just can't understand it. (Neither their raves nor the story.)
My local PBS station ran the first season of the new Doctor Who, and while there were similiarities, and I enjoyed the show, it just didn't feel like real Who. The Doctor's romantic interest in Rose seemed not just odd, but wrong, like a cross between incest and bestiality. Companions phoning home from anywhere in time or space seems to detract from the drama and otherworldliness of the show.
And I miss the cliffhanger every 25 minutes.
I'll put him at number four for the car. (Bessie, not the Whomobile.)
I'm biased towards Tom because he's "my" Doctor—the one I grew up watching. I'm biased towards Colin because I had a chance to meet him when I was 15 and he was very kind and actually took the time to talk to me about the show. I think if his tenure hadn't been interrupted, he'd be rated higher by more fans.
I really like McCoy's acting and the way he portrays the Doctor. But part of rating the Doctor's is also rating the entire era of their tenure, and I did not like the direction Who was taking at that time. The vagabond was gone, and we were in the company of some sort of mysterious ancient Time Lord. That was too much for me to swallow.
"Can something that is atheist and homosexual be, at its core, apolitical or even conservative?"
That's a great question, Leigh. It can be apolitical, but I think only conservatives (and libertarians) can really understand that. We tend to see people as individuals rather than as members of groups, and that goes for fictional characters as well. When each person you encounter is a "one-off," he becomes much more interesting. Whereas liberals flatten everything out when they write fiction: the atheist is automatically intelligent, well-educated and logical, while the homosexual is free-spirited, sassy and open-minded, because the liberal's political agenda requires those characters to be that way. Flat characters, flat writing.
As for your bigger question, I don't think conservatives have a problem with atheists or homosexuals until they try to strip our culture of its heritage and traditions through the courts.
I have quite a few episodes of the classic series on DVD, and while the commentaries are great, they're occasionally ruined by someone (usually Barry Letts or Lalla Ward) making an unnecessary comment about Bush, Iraq, or Americans in general. It's just so petty.
Best how?
Looks: Peri, Zoe, Susan, Romana I, Sarah Jane
Sheer fun: Leela, Sarah Jane, Jamie, Brigadier (I'm counting him!), Romana II
Most competent: Romana I, Nyssa, Zoe, Liz, Ian
On the other hand:
Most useless: Kameleon, K-9, Teegan, Jo, Peri, Victoria
Most annoying: Ace, Adric, Teegan, Jo, Peri
It's the romantic feelings that the Doctor seems to have that I object to, rather than whatever activity those feelings resulted in. He's 800 years old, for God's sake!
(Also, I always forget which is shagging and which is snogging.)
If you have to edit something before you watch it then maybe its not the show for you. Soon as people wake up and realise that homosexuality is as natural as sneezing, then this world will be a better more tolerant place to live in.
Both hetrosexual scenes and homosexual scenes are edited out…I really would just rather not watch people having sex.
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I dunno. The show was really weak in it's first season, somewhat better, but still not really solid in it's second, and this miniseries/series finale they just aired was undeniably fantastic, but I felt like the show never quite understood what it wanted to be. On the one hand, it was like a gay Captain Scarlet, on the other it was didactic as hell, really pushing the "It's ok to be gay" thing hard.
I'll tell you what really surprised me about this miniseries, though: the amazingly totally vicious way they tore in to their own government. Granted, it was a fictional administration, but still – our media here in the US prides itself on it's paranoia and cynicism of anything related to government, and yet nothing I've seen in a lifetime of American TV has come close to equalling the openly-evil portrayal of the British Government. It was truely amazing, particularly since the BBC is a wholly-owned government corporation.
Our TV industry claims to be all edgy and stuff, but no American show would ever portray the US Government in such a way, we would never even think to do so simply because, no matter how annoyed we get with the system, or how misguided we think it might be on occasion, at root we still all believe in it. Not even the most gibbering of Michael Moore-styled schizophrenics would think to portray it thusly, and if by some fever dream they did, there's literally several armies of studios and producers and directors – all of whom consider themselves liberals – who would prevent it from ever being filmed. I don't pretend to know what to make of that, but there it is.
So, Mr. Scott, what were your thoughts on the brief American Military Dictatorship that was in charge of the UK in the last two episodes of "Children of Earth?"
@ Mike Kriskey: >>No later "Doctors" may be considered, as they are clearly impostors. The real Doctor wouldn't shag his assistant. <<
What about Rommanna? Clearly Doctor #4 and her were an item.
I don't think he did, to be honest. The Season 4 finale ends with a torturously awkward scene – deliberately so – in which The Doctor can't bring himself to say "I love you" to rose, while his human-bodied clone can do it with no difficulty. The very strong implication I took from that – and I think it was deliberate – is that the doctor is not sexually compatable with humans, even though he looks it. Pheremones are wrong, or maybe the plumbing is wrong, I dunno, but I got the very strong impression that The Doctor never slept with any of his companions (Excepting Rommanna, of course)
Really, you found this libertarian? The portrayal of the government seemed to me to be properly derogatory, but our hero commits precisely the same crime — sacrificing the lives of other people (who haven't consented) "for the greater good." The administrator who ends up assuming the reins of government was no less self-serving when the chips were down than anyone else. The civil servant who had a chance to take out any number of British Hitler wannabes (including the big one) wimps out and falls on his own sword instead.
And in the DVD extra, the director himself whinges on and on about the crushing responsibility that falls on government types to make no-win decisions (aw, poor, poor government — it's so tough to decide who else is going to die, as long as it's never you), and about the "great sacrifice" that Barrowman made (hey, what about the kid?)
I don't know what it is with the British and their mindless acceptance of the Marxist "greatest good for the greatest number" (and of course "some pigs are more equal than others"), but I despair that they will ever actually understand the concept off individual liberty.
"(Also, I always forget which is shagging and which is snogging.)"
Best avoid dating British women.
" the amazingly totally vicious way they tore in to their own government."
I agree wholeheartedly. It was the best thing about this series.
"nothing I've seen in a lifetime of American TV has come close to equalling the openly-evil portrayal of the British Government."
Except, perhaps, the unexpected universal cheering from movie audiences all around the country when the aliens pulverized the White House in "Independence Day."
"I don't know what it is with the British and their mindless acceptance of the Marxist "greatest good for the greatest number" (and of course "some pigs are more equal than others"), but I despair that they will ever actually understand the concept off individual liberty"
That's great- ignorance and arrogance on an unheard of level!
Maybe you could explain to the class just what you mean by British mindless acceptance of Marxism?
And while you're at it, could you let us know how you can at once make derogatory remarks abut a (perceived) belief system and at the same time boast of the concept of 'individual liberty'? Do you know what irony is?
That was weird, wasn't it? I can only assume it was because that movie came out when Clinton was president, and his public opinion perhaps wasn't as great as he thought it was. <G>
Here's the thing I've never quite gotten about the British: They're terrified – or at least their media is – with becoming a fascist dictatorship. This makes no sense to me: Firstly, the British have *never* been fascist, nor even terribly close to being fascist. I'll admit their empire was fairly draconian in some of its territories at some points, but it was never like that at home, and really the British did more for the spread of democracy than anyone excepting the United States. I understand that 'The price of liberty is eternal vigilance,' but this seems overboard. It's like a rock star having sex with a different supermodel every night, then worrying about being gay over breakfast.
So why the continual freaking out about being one heartbeat away from fascism? What am I missing here?
I’ve sworn them off since one suggested I “knock her up.” I still have the scars.
Puh-leeze. Let's look at just today's news:
<snip>
SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES
Thursday July 23,2009
By Alison Little
THOUSANDS of the worst families in England are to be put in “sin bins” in a bid to change their bad behaviour, Ed Balls announced yesterday.
The Children’s Secretary set out £400million plans to put 20,000 problem families under 24-hour CCTV supervision in their own homes.
They will be monitored to ensure that children attend school, go to bed on time and eat proper meals.
Private security guards will also be sent round to carry out home checks, while parents will be given help to combat drug and alcohol addiction.
</snip>
Whatever happened to "The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the crown. It may be frail – its roof may shake – the wind may blow through it – the storm may enter – the rain may enter – but the King of England cannot enter"?
Now the state forces victimized grandmothers to take down their barbed wire fences for fear that future burglars may injure themselves in the process of ripping her off. Meanwhile, actual criminals engaged in actual burglary, vendalism, pedophilia, death threats, bodily harm, and even arson are handled with a "caution," basically a letter of reprimand and a "mark on their permanent record," and zero real consequences. Absolutely loony.
As for the "greatest good for the greatest numbers" claim, have you even watched the special feature on this DVD? It's 100% symptomatic or Britain's philosophical malaise.
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