Sergeants Rock
by Kurt SchlichterI just cannot get behind this Star Trek rebirth. The whole thing is just so unrealistic. Not the warp speed or phasers or beaming about the universe – those are at least remotely plausible. I am talking about the fact that the starship Enterprise is composed entirely of officers and yet it still seems to function. Where are the non-commissioned officers (NCO), the petty officers and sergeants who actually make any military organization run? No, I can suspend disbelief over Klingons and tribbles, and I actively support the notion of green alien hotties. But the idea of a functioning military unit without sergeants is just a wormhole too far.
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Hollywood movies often focus on the commanders, the captains and colonels, but they have also managed to highlight some great sergeants as well. When you are picking out DVDs for next weekend, remember that May 16th is Armed Forces Day and consider a few selections that show the sergeant in all his gruff and grumbling glory.
If you have never experienced the joy of going through basic training and do not plan to, your first stop should be Full Metal Jacket, with R. Lee Ermey’s legendary portrayal of a Marine drill instructor who must have missed out on the block of instruction on sensitivity. I saw this in the theater about a week before I reported to Basic. That was a poor idea.
The Marines I know seem to prefer Jack Webb in the more realistic The DI, but I am partial to Warren Oates as the “Big Toe” of a platoon of Army foul-ups in Stripes. This is one great performance – as Sergeant First Class Hulka, Oates is both hilarious and moving. You can see how this veteran NCO (his character wears the Combat Infantryman’s Badge, meaning he had seen action) truly cares about teaching his men to survive, and you kind of sympathize with him when Bill Murray’s smart-assery pushes him into slugging our hero in the gut. Hulka’s contemptuous rejoinder to “Psycho” – “Lighten up, Francis” – is classic, as is his inventory of baffled expressions while watching the antics of his recruits. I remember getting some of those looks myself from Drill Sergeant Whittlesey.
And do not forget Louis Gossett, Jr. as another Devil Dog making Naval officer candidates earn the right to receive his salute in An Officer and a Gentleman. My only objection to this movie is that it made Squid School look a lot more fun than Fort Benning’s Army Officer Candidate School, but then I didn’t look like Richard Gere.
The tough sergeant turning a band of screw-ups into a well-oiled fighting machine is classic Hollywood. The archetype is Marine Sergeant Stryker in The Sands of Iwo Jima, in which John Wayne supposedly utters the quintessential NCO aphorism “Life is tough. It’s tougher if you’re stupid.” But even if the Duke actually never says those words in the film, he should have, and generations of NCOs have shared that particular insight with their soldiers.
Right up there is Clint Eastwood as another jarhead in Heartbreak Ridge. It’s a good action flick, but what was particularly interesting is how he developed his nerdy lieutenant into a tough, confident leader who ends up saving the platoon. But not all sergeants get to work with top notch officers. In the miniseries Band of Brothers, Donnie Wahlberg does a great job as Easy Company’s First Sergeant Carwood Lipton, who was faced with protecting his men from a cowardly commander. He does, but suffers a terrible fate – he receives a battlefield commission and becomes a mere lieutenant. As Colonial Marine Gunnery Sergeant Apone in the fantastic Aliens, Al Matthews not only contends with an incompetent platoon leader, but flesh eating space bugs and Bill Paxton’s loudmouth Private Hudson. “Game over, man! Game over!”
The definition of an NCO is someone who makes things happen – whether or not strictly within the bounds of the regulations. Don Rickles embraces this as the entrepreneurial and sharp-tongued supply sergeant Crap Game in Kelly’s Heroes. Steve Martin played another NCO who didn’t let little things like rules get in the way in Sgt. Bilko. James Caan, as real-life WWII Staff Sergeant Eddie Dohun, rescues his critically wounded officer from the battlefield and takes him to an aid station in A Bridge Too Far. When the doctor refuses to look at what seems to be a hopeless case, SSG Dohun did what any good sergeant would do and improvised – by sticking his cocked .45 in the surgeon’s face. The wounded officer lived.
Behind every good officer are literally dozens of great NCOs. Even Lee Marvin could not have handled The Dirty Dozen without Richard Jaeckel’s Sergeant Bowren. In Crimson Tide, the feuding officers vie for the support of the Master Chief Petty Officer, the “Chief of the Boat.” Tom Hanks may have been the commander, but the heart of his company was Sergeant Horvath (Tom Sizemore) in Saving Private Ryan.
That is not just a Hollywood cliché – that is real life. In fact, some of the best portrayals of NCOs in the movies have simply been the telling of the true stories of what they really did. Black Hawk Down accurately shows modern urban combat as a confusing and deadly amalgamation of separate firefights involving small units led by young sergeants. Josh Hartnett does a good job as a Ranger squad leader trying to keep his men alive, while Eric Bana and William Fichtner are Delta sergeants who take the fight right to the enemy.
But the portrayals that best show the reality of the American NCO are that of Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Johnny Strong as Delta Force Master Sergeants Gary Gordon and Randall Shugart. As the movie shows, when one of the Blackhawk choppers went down, they repeatedly requested permission to fast rope in to protect the injured crew knowing it would mean near certain death. Finally getting permission, they set up a perimeter and fought until overrun, littering the streets with the bodies of Somali militiamen and saving one member of the crew. They earned the Medal of Honor, but I suspect that if we could ask them both would say that they were simply doing what NCOs do and nothing more.
Sam Elliot played another real-life hero, Command Sergeant Major Basil Plumley, in We Were Soldiers. As the movie shows, most enlisted troopers in the Second Battalion, Seventh Cavalry, and the wise officers as well, treated CSM Plumley with an awe verging on terror. But when the battalion was surrounded by a division of North Vietnamese at Ia Drang, CSM Plumley stayed cool, keeping morale strong in the face of what should have been a massacre. In the film, and in reality, these cavalrymen fought a massively superior force to a standstill.
Though I am a former cavalry commander, my favorite NCO portrayal is of an infantry sergeant in the British Army. Zulu depicts the true story of the legendary near-last stand of a company of Welsh soldiers at Rourke’s Drift in South Africa. The tiny band held their ground against a brave and deadly enemy force forty times their size. As Colour-Sergeant Bourne, Nigel Greene is the ultimate NCO. From keeping up standards in battle – “Button your tunic!” – to advocating for his exhausted men to facing down an iklwa-wielding Zulu warrior with his bayonet, Colour-Sergeant Bourne was the backbone of the company.
Sergeants truly are the backbone of the Army and of the other services. Right now, a young buck sergeant is leading his Marine fire team through the mountains of Afghanistan, a platoon sergeant is prepping a cavalry patrol through the streets of Kosovo, and a command sergeant major in Iraq is double checking his troops before another convoy mission. These men and women are the heart of our military. Take a moment to think about them as you pop in a movie and sit back and relax next weekend, safe and secure. And raise a beer to them. I will.






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Yes, let's spend 90 minutes following around the bed-makers, the folks on KP duty and the toilet scrubbers. Cause that makes for a great SCI-FI movie. Scratch the first paragraph and this post could have been taken somewhat seriously.
Scotty's kind of a noncom. He's Chief Engineer.
As a former Marine, I highly recommend HBO's series "Generation Kill" and, of course, "Jarhead." Both feature memorable NCO's.
Thanks Kurt for the reminder. Every person now serving, officer and enlisted, is a volunteer. The vast majority truly believe they are helping to make the world a better place and the United States safer. In the Marines, 60% are under 25 and 16% are teenagers. That's who protects us. I recently had three teenagers (all high school grads, I asked) ask me for money as I was exiting the store. I asked if they needed work. They said yes and I directed them to the Marine Corps recruiter…I know they never went.
In Star Trek, you did see a lot of noncoms and enlisted. The problem though was that they were the Red Shirts.
You left out Victor McLaglen's Sgt. Quincannon!
Col. Thursday: "Destroy that whisky"
Sgt. Quincannon: "We've got a man's work ahead of us."
Also, James Coburn's Sgt. Steiner, in the seldom seen "Cross of Iron," Peckinpah's only war flick.
The NCOs really run the military, the officers just walk out in front, thinking that they do.
(Spoken as a career NCO and a pretty accomplished scrounger, too.)
My favorite NCO line from a comic strip was from a Vietnam-era cartoon strip called "With Sgt. Mike"
"I don't suppose as a non-commissioned officer, I can resign my non-commission!?"
Star Trek has NCO's, just usually not in the movies. Unless I'm mistaken, Chief O'Brian in DS9 was a CPO. In Trek, you just don't get to see non-com's all that much. In Star Trek VI, there was a brief scene of what appeared to be a typical cramped enlisted quarters, with racks (those are bunks, to you non-naval types) stacked three high, just as it is in modern naval vessels. Those quarters, in fact, had less privacy than I actually had on the real Enterprise (CVN-65, Big E baby!). At least I had a curtain for my rack. But my quarters weren't co-ed as they were in VI.
This article reminds me of a speech by a tank commander [Assassin Company] that I read a few years back. It was phenomenal and I hope our military is filled with guys like this…….
“Once the fighting starts, if there are people in the streets, in civilian or military clothing, they are the enemy and they will die,…..
There are some towers and high ground. We will shoot all towers," Wolford said. "They have used car bombs and suicide bombers … If they don’t stop, fire a burst of .762. If they turn around, then they were probably going to the store to get some Saddam beer. If they don’t stop, kill them.
cont……..
The filter will not let me post the second part. Read it here…….
http://julescrittenden.blogspot.com/2007/01/corre...
Tom Berringer in "Platoon". Good Noncom.
There are two non-coms in FORGOTTEN HEROES, one Sgt Sully an American Marine and Sgt Amalrik a Soviet commando in the only Vietnam era film from the Green Berets to We were soldiers to show the American Vietnam vet as a hero. That is 32 years of our vets being dumped on by Hollywood. http://www.forgottenheroesthemovie.com even President Bush saw the film and sent me his response http://www.forgottenheroesthemovie.com/letter
I love "We were soldiers". Sargent Major Plumley reminds me of the Sgt. Major my dad had in the army called "the Monk". Tough as nails and no nonsense.
Great list.
Plainly, Robert, you've never served so we vets won't hold it against you. No, senior enlisted are *not* "bed-makers, the folks on KP duty and the toilet scrubbers." They are the guys who actually run things while the officers stand around and look important.. On any real Navy vessel no CHENG would be doing what Scotty does- unless, as often is the case, he's a crusty old ex-CPO, a warrant or mustang who came up through the ranks.
The idea that brand spankin' new brownbars fresh from the Academy could run an ice-cream truck, much less a warship, is pretty ridiculous. An Ensign or 2LT's job is to look squared away and do what his chief or gunny tells him, and maybe he'll eventually learn something.
Well, Robert? I see you have no knowledge of military occupational skills. Sergeants, nor Petty Officers preform any of the duties you described in your ignorant dribble. They are considered "middle management" Please, feel free to join up and educate yourself. Then you can start with the duties you described and the Military will help you advance. If you dare. (Former Sergeant, United States Army)
Don't forget Vic Morrow as Sgt. Saunders in the old Combat! TV show. Or Jackie Gleason as MSgt. Maxwell Slaughter and Steve McQueen as Sgt. Eutis Clay in "Soldier in the Rain". Or Forrest Tucker as Sgt. O'Rourke on F Troop (for laughs)
http://shermansmarch.blogspot.com
Um, HELLO. SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE. Of course I know that IN REAL LIFE they are not "bed-makers, the folks on KP duty and the toilet scrubbers." My point was that this is FICTION, and Science Fiction at that.
Until he started executing civilians and his men ><
Lee Marvin play a great NCO in the Big Red One, one of my favorite movies.
You're absolutely correct. I have no tangible knowledge of military occupation skills.
Star Trek has a very casual take on the military and hierarchy anyway.
SPOILER:
The new movie shows Kirk, a third-year cadet under academic suspension and facing honors discipline at Starfleet Academy, halfway stowing away on board a ship headed into a combat mission, getting a brevet promotion to second-in-command, and then after performing heroically (which involved not only his leaving his ship during combat but taking the other ranking officer with him) graduating from Starfleet Academy with a Captain's commission. Yes, it's only a movie, and yes, it needed to end with Kirk in command of the Enterprise, and yes, I'm not in the military, but I'm pretty durn sure that it doesn't work like that in any real military at all.
I mean, even at the end of Stripes, Bill Murray and Ivan Reitman only made PFC despite foiling a Soviet espionage plot and seducing the hottest MPs who were ever deployed in the European theater (including the then-still-luscious Sean Young). That, I could believe.
Thanks, Great Satan, for the nod. You like sergeants and good officers, there's more of Wolford and Lustig and the action they engaged in here:
http://www.julescrittenden.com/2007/03/30/march-3...
Speaking of Sgt Rock, you may also want to stop by a quaint little boutique warmongery:
http://www.julescrittenden.com/crittendens-boutiq...
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Dittos on Morrow, Hartnett, and Elliott.
Donnie Wahlberg was perfect in Band of Brothers (the book is a must-read).
Full Metal Jacket was more like my Parris Island experience. I would have loved to have had Jack Webb or even Darren McGavin (Tribes).
The History Channel had a great doc about Sergeants, about 10 years ago. Sgt. Saunders was discussed, and how he was a great portrayal of a Sgt.
The most interesting parts were R. Lee Ermey talking about being a Drill Instructor during Vietnam. He explained that the reason they were so brutal was that they felt so much responsiblity for their recruits who would most likely be going into combat. They would see the casualty reports and felt that they had somehow failed whenever one of their recruits would appear on a list. He said that in light of this and the fact that Recruit Training had been shortened to eight weeks, the felt that the recruits Were more likely to remember what they were being taught if the Drill Instructor occasionally laid hands on them rather than having to repeat the instructions.
If you take away the officers in combat, it's annoying.
If you took away the non-coms, it'd be devastating.
Which was proven everywhere from the D-Day parachute jumps to beleaguered infantry units in Vietnam firefights, and before and since, where officer casualties are astronomical, and yet the victory is nonetheless won without them, because corporals and sergeants step up to do the work of lieutenants, captains, and beyond.
The best officers know this because they were once enlisted men.
The next best learn it and live it despite the handicap of never having been such.
Most of the rest are why the military invented "cashiering", and why troops invented "fragging", and it's only the stalwart service of NCOs that's kept the number of both so thankfully low.
That's why Star Trek's officer-heavy escapades are science *fantasy*, whereas Robert Heinlein's (USNA '29) works conform more to being science *fiction*.
And why the hero of the book "Starship Troopers" was SERGEANT Zim.
Lea,
Scotty was not a noncom. In TOS he held the rank of Lt. Commander. In the movies, and later, TNG, he made it to the rank of Captain.
Jules, the article on Capt. Wolford is excellent stuff; it’s comforting that there are such commanders. Keep up the good work.
In response to danebramage's comment that he considers himself to be "a former marine", then, he was never a Marine in the first place. Why? There is no such thing as a former Marine. I was a Marine on active duty from 6/68 to 4/70, and was released on honorable (received my honorable discharge in 3/74) conditions due to getting an early release.
The movies "Generation Kill" & "Jarhead" were not good movies at all.
IMO, the movie "Heartbreak Ridge" is the best pure-fiction portrayal of an NCO, and it's a shame that the subplots of the movie diminish that.
You're right that the Gunny does a good job of squaring away his LT, and any of us who've seen butterbars come and decent officers go, and know that had a piece of that process, appreciates Hollywood for once showing that it's an NCO at the start of a Looey career and turns him into the officer Hollywood and too many novels focus on. (One Tom Clancy's series has a SOF group run by a general and a bunch of PFC's, WTF???).
Gunny goes on to busting his guy's @$$e$ to train them for war, but also lets himself, and only him, be the one to discipline his men, and takes responsibility for their welfare. IT's Gunny who gives the PFC some cash for his family, not the Officer, not the Cup and Flower fund.
One day Hollywood is going to get the military right, maybe when more vets are writing screenplays, producing and directing films, and acting in them.
I call BS on all of this military officer bashing – "the NCO's run everything" and associated garbage – because I'm an Air Force brat, and I grew up on Air Force bases. My dad was a pilot – WW II, Korea, Vietnam – and then the Station Traffic Officer of Yakota AFB, Japan, which was at that time – the height of Vietnam – the busiest Air Force base in the world. I grew up around officers and airmen – dad took me to breakfast with him at the Officer's Club, where we dined with every rank from 2nd Lt. to four star Generals. Those guys are freaking awesome! Best men in the world.
I also dated the daughters of Airmen of all enlisted ranks from buck sergeant to chief master sergeant. If there is ANY near-perfectly organized government enterprise, it's the military.
I'm sick and fraking tired of this BS – mostly promulgated by Hollywood – that the officers are boobs and the enlisted ranks are the brain trust, because it's a lie. My dad – and just thousands from his generation – were the best and brightest, and they had to prove it. He enlisted in the Army like every other buck private, busted his @$$, went to Officer Candidate School, and was a 2nd Lt. in flight school before his 20th birthday… as a high school graduate. He got to command enlisted men because he was smart, and the guys who worked for him loved him because of that. I ought to know, because I met a bunch of them, and as soon as they found out I was "Col. Pepper's kid" they told me how cool he was and how much they liked working for him. Plus, they didn't mind my dating their little girls. LOL!
So knock it off, as the expression goes.
Oh, and dad knew a good enlisted man when he met one too, and he surrounded himself with the best of them. Sometimes by hook and crook having them transfered to his sections… as well as weeding out the dead wood.
God bless our men and women in the military! THANK YOU!
I , too, love SGT Hulka.
"Lighten up, Frances" is a phrase my wife and I still use when our son gets moody.
STAR TREK has 'no time for sergeants',
as it isn't a realistic look at military life, but it is a great yarn.
The movie sets out on a mission to
entertain, and make a pile of cash.
Mission accomplished.
According to Wikipedia,Gene Roddenberry was a decorated Army Air Corps B-17 pilot in the Pacific theatre in WWII, and later an LAPD police Sergeant.
So, The Great Bird of The Galaxy himself wore Officer's bars, and later Sergeant's stripes.
I guess he liked the TV stories he could write with the officers better than the ones he could write about NCO's.
Well the Back Bone of the Army is its career Sergeants, the officers job is to lead, its the Sergeants job to do the heavy lifting that is often required of Soldiers. R. Lee Ermey in Fire Base Gloria was about as good as it gets for a Movie. We tend to forget movies are just that movies. Officers are not by any means dumb, or Sergeants mindless Clowns, far to many Sergeants became officers due to battle field promotions, a couple come to mind, Maj. Audie Murphy, and Maj Richard Meadows.
Repeat three times: This is just a science fiction movie, and not a real military movie
Science fiction has a long, honorable tradition (dating back to the pulp magazines of the 1930's) of a group of daring space cadets saving the day, when the senior officers are killed or disabled. I'm looking at my sci-fi bookcase, and see at least five novels based on that plot line.
Sci-fi fans don't pick apart your military movies…
Either enjoy of our escapist literature, with us, or get a sense of perspective
This is escapist literature, fo God's sake…
Good point Thomas, that would kinda rule you out as a good Sergeant.
I think he meant Willem Dafoe's character who was a great sergeant, who tried to teach the new guys how to stay alive and who was killed by Tom Berenger's character.
However, you do seem to have a firm grasp on how to make yourself look like an ass.
You sure about that? I always thought the Red Shirts were Ensigns and Lieutenants. I don't know if I ever heard the word sergeant on Star Trek.
Personally, I would have enjoyed seeing more enlisted personnel in Star Trek. It just got ridiculous that every time they needed a scout team, they would send down 3/5 of the senior command staff.
I keep hoping that one day they will make a series about the grunts on a starship. If nothing else, it would offer a new perspective on an aging franchise.
Need a tissue?
Please view a story of an Air Force NCO who was with those Ranger and Delta troops in Somalia:
http://www.af.mil/history/person.asp?dec=&pid...
Their creed: That others may live.
MSgt Scott Fales and SSgt Jeffery Bray were also there and displayed exceptional bravery during a Somali firefight; Fales and Bray received the Silver Star.
Zim? I
Hit the wrong button…
Wasn't the hero Rico? Who served in Raszchaks(sp) Roughnecks(later 'Ricos Roughnecks) where Raszchak was the Captain?
Zim was the Sergeant behind the desk who was there to discourage those who weren't serious about joining.
He got a bigger role in that godawful movie, but in the book he's not so major(important, just not major).
FWIW, Roddenberry spent years trying to promote a T.V. cop show. Its working title was "The Lieutenant"
While we're on the subject of sergeants, let's not forget Burt Lancaster as Sergeant Warden in From Here to Eternity (with a hat-tip to Ernest Borgnine as Sergeant Judson )
That's because Star Trek is based on navel ranks. Navies don't have Sergeants either.
That said, O'Brien from TNG and DS9 held the rank of Chief aka Chief Petty Officer. In other word: Sergeant. And he was head engineer of DS9.
TOS was notorious for it's lack of noncoms. I'm sure they existed, but it wasn't until TNG that we actually saw one regularly.
Honesty from a troll? I think I feel a heart attack coming on!
Something Hollywood and most novels does not portray is that officers come and go, very few LT's or CPT's get more than a year with their platoon or company, and LTC"s And COL's rarely get more than two years in command but the Squad Leaders, Platoon Sergeants, First Sergeant, and Sergeant Major rarely stay with their unit less than two years, and three or more is common for an NCO, at least until the last few years.
In short, the NCO has seen officers come and go, but they've stayed, getting better and more expert, really knowing their troops, their equipment, and their mission. Platoon Sergeants with 10 years or more in service train the Platoon Leader who often has with less than two years in the Army, not the other way around.
Officers serve a very importsant role, and theri name is on the blame line for the success or failure of the mission, but NCO's are the unsung and necessary people who support that officer and make him a success. Every officer worth his rank acknowledges that.
You should check out the 1978 flick "The Boys in Company C." R. Lee Ermey's first role (as a drill instructor.) It is well worth it.
Ken, concur on your observation regarding landing teams. I doubt that any Navy anywhere will ever allow the vessel's commander to go ashore/on planet with a small group fo lightly armed staff officers? Where are tthe heavily armed, sleepy eyed grunts who react to either kill or take control of a situation peacefully, while protecting their officers?
Thank You for that list of men who do not get called Sir becuase they work for a living.
An old Story my father told me about.
Omar Bradly had just taken over as a instructor at the Command College and in his first class told the men in exercise they were to build a set of flagpoles outside the divisionheadquarters.
How would they do it? The officers then started with all sorts of plans and what not. Finally Bradly told them the answer. You tell your Sergeant "Sergeant I want a set of flagpoles outside the headquarters." then step back and let the man do his work.
The Chief Engineer on a ship is an officer. Well, on most of them. The Patrol Coastal class ships have a Chief Petty Officer as the CHENG.
I remember talking to a young ensign on the ship once as he complained that the CMC (Command Master Chief) didn't much notice him. He looked rather shocked when I told him that, despite the fact that the CMC saluted him, the CMC outranked him and he would do well never to forget it. In fact, I told him his Departmental Leading Chief also outranked him. A DH can do without an ensign, but he can't do without his LCPO.
He learned. Made out all right as an officer, too.
Most of the Best officers were former enlisted !!!
I had it proved to me over and over again and as a former Buck Sergeant I agree that NCO's run the military.
The interesting thing about our armed forces has always been that from day one, we are taught leadership.
If all the officers are killed, Sergeants take over, if all the Sergeants are gone, Privates take over !!!!!
Most of all its about leadership, and nobody in the world creates better leaders at any level than our military !!!
God Bless the USA and the men and women who have served her in the past !!!!
A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check
made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of
'up to and including my life.' That is Honor, and there are way too
many people in this Country who no longer understand it.'
The " mustang" officer (Prior USMC enlisted) is the bedrock of the officer corp. The fact that this is so valued demonstrates the closeness that exists from top to bottom in this tightly knit combat arm.
Back with you to your Mom's basement and your Captain Kirk t-shirt. Go away, the adults are talking.
No duh. And stay out of my military. I need motivated troops with capability, not a mouth-breather with a dial-tone between the ears.
My husband would agree with you. The man he worked closest with while he was in command was the Sergeant Major. And we had some good ones.
When Roddenberry conceived "Star Trek", he had this idea that everyone on a starship was some kind of an educated leader of some type, which was why everyone was some kind of naval officer. You figured some of the folks in the jumpsuits and the "environmental" outfits were enlisted, but the implication was everyone was some kind of officer material. It always made me giggle why you would have an officer stand watch over the septic bilges, but there you are.Transporter Chief Kyle was the only one that might have been some kind of enlisted in TOS.
Next Gen brought us Miles O'Brien, who was the noncom for all the Enterprise, apparently; I didn't see anyone else, so I bet he was really busy, all those officers trying to justify that pip they had. When he went to DS9, he was the enlisted guy in the officer billet, which was interesting.
There was a Chief DiFalco in the first movie, Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
In the real world, noncoms have a much more interesting life than any of the officers do…
Don't anyone forget Peterson from "Green Berets", please!
I knew a guy just like him…
The thing that separates our military from most in the world is a strong NCO corp. I read that was the major weakness of Saddam's military – what the US forces are trying to fix now.
Heck everyone knows it is the Sgts and Petty Officers that really run things.
"Don't call me sir", we'd be told, "I work for a living!"
The best line from "We Were Soldiers" – Sam Elliot's character, the Sgt who has seen it all – when answering Mel Gibson's character – about his feeling that he is like Custer, surrounded by hostiles…
"Custer was a pussy – you're not" was what the Sgt said…
Closest they ever came to that was "Lower Decks", I think, in "Voyager", which had a story about all the folks you usually didn't see.
Next Gen had some that were pretty close, like the Bajoran that was sent out as an Intelligence Officer, and got discovered and executed by the Cardassians. She was one of Worf's security staff.
It really shows how Hollywood just doesn't have a clue about Militaries, or even Para-militaries. What Captain in his right mind makes a cadet his XO? Additionally is Star Fleet so hard up that they can't get someone with more time in grade to command the Enterprise? I still liked the movie but I agree it was a huge leap in logic, in a genre known for leaps of logic.
I read the whole thing, and the comments. That man has brains, and the skillset to use them properly.
You are absolutely correct, sir.
No one trusts a brat with quadrillion credit starships and hundreds of lives, no matter how slick he pulled off the trick before.
You gotta show you can do that consistently before you get to do it all the time.
"Sci-fi fans don't pick apart your military movies…"
Good God man, you've never met real SF fans. We know everything, and are qualified to pick *every* nit there is.
(And if you think I'm joking, trust me, I'm not)
Stop crying, your mama is not here, and I don't wet-nurse! You need to knock it off.
Who do you think kept all those pretty airplanes flying for those officers, brain trust?
Your old man may have done this, and that's cool with me, but I had no desire to do it myself. Bonehead officers abound, just like noncoms. I had a pair bail out on me when I was a student Clinical Specialist; the alcoholic former light colonel had a "messy problem', I was a PFC, and they took off for the break area right after I came back from lunch and walked into the room, leaving me the whole job. No concern for the patient, no help for me, just leave it for the student. Shining examples of officers they were, huh?
SgtMom, my favorite line has always been:
Recruit: "Chief, how come I don't salute you?"
CPO: "Because my parents were married."
BMC (ret) USN 22 years
This reminds me of a very old George Carlin bit about Indian Sergeants. In the movies we always see Indian Chiefs and Indian Braves, but no Sergeants. If you can find it, it's worth a listen.
Gordon, I've heard this story before in different versions. What I would do, given that task, would be something like this:
"The Colonel wants these flagpoles set up. You guys can go on liberty as soon as you're finished."
How can you leave out Frank Sutton as Sgt. Vince Carter on Gomer Pyle? For most people my age (guess), he was our first introduction to the armed forces. As kids, we thought he was scary and mean!
"That's because Star Trek is based on navel ranks."
Navel ranks? Like chief belly button officer?
"Navies don't have Sergeants either."
That is correct. But the Marines that they should be carrying around do. You know, the ground troops that Naval officers would send in for any away missions (as opposed to sending the XO).
We all get that O'Brien was an enlisted man. The point is that he was the _only_ one.
Obviously, you either never read the *book*, or forgot it, and are taking your info from the ATROCIUS butchery of the sci-fi classic by that Dutch hack.
Please, read (or re-read) Heinlein, and forget the movie.
Trust me, the hero was Zim.
Rico was the punk coming of age.
"Lower Decks" was actually the TNG episode you were referring to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Decks_(TNG_epi...
The main characters in that story are all junior officers (including the Bajoran member of Worf's staff that you mentioned.)
Uh, no.
There are hordes of former Marines.
What there aren't, with rare exceptions, are EX-Marines.
(Such exceptions being people like Charles Whitman and Lee Harvey Oswald.)
As Casey Stengel used to say, you could look it up.
Semper Fi, Mac.
The AF is the only service where most of the enlisted men have college, many even degrees, and also the only one where it's primarily the OFFICERS who do the fighting and dying.
Brilliant, that.
BTW, when Major or Colonel Snookie Wookums gets shot down, who is it they send in to save his bacon?
Some enlisted E5 PJ, if memory serves.
The AF is the only service where most of the enlisted men have college, many even degrees, and also the only one where it's primarily the OFFICERS who do the fighting and dying.
Brilliant, that.
BTW, when Major or Colonel Snookie Wookums gets shot down, who is it they send in to save his bacon?
Some enlisted E5 PJ, if memory serves.
Ya gotta love Victor MacLaglen's drunken Irish Sergeant in those old John Ford westerns!
heh heh heh…..you're probably right.
Hey Kurt,
I get it! My Dad was a Master Sargent in the Army during WW2 and fought in Alaska. He was in the first wave and led a squad in the battle of Attu. My dad was wounded and was the only survivor of his entire platoon. Other than Iwo Jima, it was the bloodiest battle for an island in WW2. Over 7,000 American soldiers died there. 12,000 wounded. You don't hear much about the Polar Bear Regiment but they were among the bravest men in the war against the Japanese. This would make a really good movie!
The thing that ruined Berringer's portrayal was Stone's insistance in throwing in a My Lai metaphor.
What?……..Dude, thank for your service and you, as a former Marine, will always be a brother of mine but, there is no such thing as an ex-Marine. Only former Marines. I was once and always will be but, I am no longer on active duty.
and yes, both those movies sucked pond water through a cocktail straw.
You're right. As long as you can filter out the fictional over-the-top stuff, I liked Eastwood's portrayal.
Ya that's true. I haven't seen 'Platoon" in years. I remember a gritty Sarge that was respected by his troops. Stone is shameless.
I might have the two confused, as I said below it's been a while since I saw "Platoon". Thanks for the correction and editing.
like TrueBlueMormon said……Mustang's -prior Enlisted- are the best! NCO's train the troops. Officers allocate the time and resources. A good Mustang stays out of the way and covers his NCO's asses.
HUC –
Grunts – Aiviation
Two separate universes. Parallel, yes but, VERY different.
I had to re-watch that to confirm that was Ermey some time ago. Decent flick. I liked the part:
"Wanna spend a million bucks?"
Former 0311/7311/7312/7324
Kurt, I gotta beg to differ on the DI and Full Metal Jacket drill instructor comparsion. Even the squad bays looked identical to MCRD San Diego. First half of FMJ was dead on. I need to re-watch The DI, last time I saw it was the week before I went to Boot.
How about RSM Sandy Young (Jack Watson) in "The Wild Geese"?
Don't forget those SNCOs mentoring those CGOs…..
Hi Kurt,
Great article. I've always wondered where the NCO's where in Star Trek. I also saw Full Metal Jacket a week before I shipped to Ft. Leonardwood, MO for Basic and AIT (A-35th July – Oct 87). Good times, well maybe not. Shout out to SSG Walker! Even though PVT, later SGT Joker was a Marine, I've been using the Joker handle for emails and online gaming ever since I got my first computer back in the 90's.
Great list's of movie NCO's.
SFC Joker
Robert, it's painfully apparent that you have no tangible knowledge, including that of the military. If you'd like I could enlighten you and reply to your initial post in the same vein that I would have respond to a young airman assigned to me who just embarrassed himself, the USAF, and every single one of his former grade school teachers by uttering the most stupid, empty headed, addleminded crapola that even God himself would have turned his back on. I'd be more than happy to enlighten you, broaden your horizons so to speak. Your choice. (Retired Sergeant – United States Air Force)
Kurt has nailed another one. The best line in Zulu – Just before what seemed like the millionth attack, the young enlisted man asks the major "Why us?" The Answer: "Becasue we we're here."
Also, everyone should watch Firebase Gloria. The movie is Lee Ermey's best work. The character and firebase are loosely based no my late Father-in-law and his unit. Ermey is a Sergeant major who assumes command of a firebase behind enemy lines. My father in law was the 1SG of a firebase behind lines in Vietnam for one year as an Air Force Combat Controller from 1966-67. (He also served in Korea and was a former Marine Infantryman, and was on MacArthur's staff as very junior NCO teaching the Japs how to run an airport.
Hucbald: I don't think I'm saying what you say I'm saying. My dad like yours was a Vietnam pilot (Navy) and that's a fine, fine buch of men; and I did my own time in the Canoe Club.
What I'm saying is that a newly-minted O-1 doesn't know how to run anything. I sure as hell didn't. Most of them learn- and mostly they learn it from their senior enlisted. The ones who fail are (usually) the ones who think they know what they're doing, before they actually do.
It's reported that Caesar didn't turn a hair if he lost legates or tribunes, but tore it out if he lost centurions.
My platoon sargeant once who told me, "your job is to make a decision. My job is to make that decision the right one." Doesn't take anything away from the officer corps to give credit where it is due. Making some decisions can follow you for life. It's the price of the salute.
I'd like to see a more reallistic treatment of the officer corps — hell, of the entire military.
I loved the relationship between Plumly and Moore in "We Were Soldiers Once." Great Officer. Great NCO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAZrTgYdsrw&fe...
Go to 2:05
One of the beefs I've always had with Star Trek was the dearth of enlisted personnel. Starfleet's officer-heavy cast was unrealistic…even for a sci-fi. I mean, did the helm have to be manned by a officer? And Chief O'Brien was smacked around a lot during DS9…it became a joke among the writers.
In the book, Sgt. Zim is the Hero.
Rico is a wet-nosed punk brought up by his platoon sergeant. Who, in the final pages of the novel turns out to be…guess who.
Ignore the wretched adaptation by that godawful Dutch hack who butchered the novel for film.
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