The Truth About My Arrest at USC
by John ZieglerI have had a rather bizarre career in media, but what happened last week on the campus of USC here in Los Angeles may end up marking one of the strangest and most disturbing episodes yet. I went to USC intending to simply let as many people as possible know that the award for “journalism excellence” they were giving Katie Couric for her Sarah Palin interview was a complete farce. To prove my point, I wanted to give away copies of my film “Media Malpractice,” which has my own Sarah Palin interview as a special feature. Instead, I ended up getting handcuffed, “arrested,” roughed up, detained, threatened, and forced off the premises.
For those that may have missed the incredible video of the incident, here is how the episode was played on Fox News Channel:
While that report provided a good overview of what happened, there is a lot more to say about this situation, largely because there has been so much misinformation, so many irresponsible accusations, and so much blatant hypocrisy in the general reaction to the remarkable videotape.
Now, one would think that there wouldn’t be much confusion about a situation that was videotaped in its entirety by not one but two cameras who were acting largely independently of the primary actors (we have posted a nearly real-time version of the entire affair at www.HowObamaGotElected.com), but unfortunately that is clearly the case. I would like to try to address some of these issues here.
First, one of the ways that those on the left have used to try to avoid having to hold their nose and support the free speech rights of a rabble-rousing “conservative,” is that USC is a “private” school and therefore they had the right to kick me out for no purpose. I even saw one prominent blog with the headline “Ziegler Arrested for Trespassing on Private Property,” which is just laughably false.
While USC is indeed a “private” school, this does not in any way legally make their property like that of a private residence. First, they take federal tax money, and second it has a very “open” campus and the area I was in has direct access from a public street without even a gate blocking the way. At any given moment there are many people walking on the sidewalks where I was arrested who are neither students, faculty nor invited guests of the University. I had every right to be there (outside the building where the award ceremony took place) and I did nothing to provoke or warrant being handcuffed, arrested or removed from the property. It is very clear the only reason that happened was because of my previously expressed political opinion on what was going on that day. In short, I was targeted for different treatment because of my beliefs.
The next tactic many have tried, in order to avoid facing their own politically induced hypocrisy on free speech, is to minimize the incident by saying that I was not “arrested” and that what happened was not a big deal.
While in the end I was not charged (I was told that I would indeed be booked at LAPD headquarters), that was only because higher authorities saw that the campus police “arrest” was clearly problematic if not completely bogus. After I was already “arrested,” they shifted gears and told me that I basically had two choices: leave the premises or be charged along with the two photographers who did not work for me and who in no way bargained for such a situation. Not wanting to put them in jeopardy and seeing that I could not possibly do anything further to achieve my original goal of educating those attending the awards, I decided, under threat of prosecution, to leave the grounds.
But make no mistake, I was arrested. I was handcuffed and detained against my will for an extended period of time with my microphone and blackberry taken from me. The photographers were also told to stop shooting under threat of arrest themselves. And, as the video clearly shows, my wrists were significantly bruised by the handcuffs that I had rightly complained were put on way too tight.
All of this happened obviously not because of my actions but because of my political view on the proceedings. In effect, I was being punished, repressed, and physically harmed as a form of prior restraint because they anticipated that I might do something to disrupt the proceedings based on my prior writings and commentary on the event (in which I never claimed I would do anything more than exactly what I tried to; give away copies of my film as an educational exercise). No matter how hard liberals try to rationalize it, this makes this a very obvious case of a blatant free speech violation.
Another way that commentators (including some on the right) have attempted to ignore the very serious First Amendment implications of this case, is to say that I set this up as some sort of publicity stunt to promote my film.
First of all, this could not be more irrelevant to the constitutional issues involved here. Second of all, I ask you to consider how the media would have reacted if the exact same events had happened to Michael Moore (which of course it wouldn’t because as a liberal he would never have anything to get upset about at a major academic institution and, even if he did, he would automatically get far more leeway from the authorities). I don’t think anyone could possibly argue that vast portions of the new media would ignore the episode despite the amazing video and the fact that it was up on Drudge for well over 24 hours.
Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, while obviously I welcome anything that raises awareness of my film and its truth, THIS WAS NOT A PUBLICITY STUNT and I had absolutely zero intention or expectation of anything like this happening. I honestly thought that I would go, ask a few embarrassing questions of the authorities, give away my film, and hopefully be able to speak to some of those who were going to the event so that I could share with them the real truth of the matter.
For those cynics out there (I am one, by the way) who still don’t believe me, I ask you to answer the following questions.
If this was a publicity stunt, why didn’t I force the authorities to book me so that I would get a mug shot and face formal charges which would exponentially increase the media coverage of the event?
If I anticipated anything like what occurred, why did I park my car in a metered parking space where if I was gone for more than an hour the chances of my car being towed would be extremely high?
If I wanted this to occur, why did I not have any scripted lines ready to go or any sort of publicity machine mobilized to take advantage of the news potential of the incident? Why did I have to call my lawyer after I got kicked off the property to see if what the law said about what one could do at a “private” university.
While I completely understand the skepticism, any objective look at the facts or at who I am as a person will force you to conclude that my motives were actually rather pure here.
The last bastion of scoundrels looking to distract from the real issues in this case is to focus on me as an individual and transparently distort some of the more colorful stories of my past as a way of destroying me personally. Not only is this a deceitful and clearly politically motivated scheme, but in many ways it is also the most dangerous tactic. For if we do not protect the free speech rights of the most unpopular or misunderstood among us, then we allow the free speech rights of everyone to be precariously weakened.
As you can see in the videotape, I am essentially laughing through most of the ordeal. I think this was out of shock more than anything else. Since this happened, my emotions have turned much more towards anger and sadness for what this means for the state of our freedoms in this rapidly changing country.
One of the things that has infuriated me most since the arrest has been USC’s e-mail response to the many people who have complained on my behalf over what they saw on the videotape.
Here is the e-mail that the Dean of the USC journalism school is sending out. In bold is where I have commented on the parts that are lies, distortions, or nonsensical statements.
Thank you for your communication about the recent incident that took place at the Cronkite Awards ceremony involving an individual named John Ziegler. I want you to know the background of the situation.
In the days before his appearance on our campus, Mr. Ziegler publicly stated an intention to “demonstrate” (not true. I used the word ”protest” and later sent out a private e-mail to my website’s mailing list telling my “followers” NOT to come or protest, my op-ed and press release on the matter said only that I would be giving out copies of my film) against the presentation of a journalism award to Katie Couric. USC was happy to accommodate Ziegler and provided him with a designated area where he could register his protest (not true. that was not offered until after I was handcuffed and was irrelevant because I was not “protesting” but rather asking questions), be seen by attendees at the event, as well as students, and pass out whatever materials he wished.
On the day of the award ceremony, Mr. Ziegler arrived on campus with two cameramen (not true. we arrived separately and they did not work for me), not as a demonstrator, but as a journalist (really?? that’s very interesting and certainly not how they treated me), and demanded (false, I asked and never even pursued entering, only asking for a rationale for why I was not allowed to) that he and his cameramen be allowed to enter the Davidson Center to cover the event. There was in fact, pool coverage set up because the room was not large enough to accommodate multiple camera crews. He was told he could have that feed, which he refused (not true, I would have been happy to have the feed and inquired as to how to get it). After being told repeatedly that the event was by invitation only, he contended he had a right to roam up and down the entryway with his cameramen (I didn’t have the right to be on an “open” campus that takes federal money??!), and he persisted in refusing to comply with the University’s request that he stay within a designated area (not true, that was after I was handcuffed) . After repeated requests for compliance, Mr. Ziegler was given the choice of either being arrested or leaving campus. He chose to leave campus (false, after being handcuffed. I was told I was under arrest and would be booked, then the LAPD and some higher ups arrived and I was told to leave or I would be booked and the camera people would be as well).
The University both respects and facilitates freedom of speech and expression on campus (just not for conservative filmmakers asking about bogus awards given to liberal media members), but also reserves the right to set reasonable ground-rules to avoid disruption to its operations and protect the rights of others (which was in no way endangered in this situation). We at the Annenberg School have a powerful and evident commitment to protecting and promoting freedom of expression and the rights of the press (really??). I respect your feelings about how this incident was handled (gee, I wonder why!).Sincerely,
Ernest J. Wilson III
Dean and Walter H. Annenberg Chair in Communication
Wow. If that that e-mail is any indication of the type of journalism Dean Wilson is teaching future journalists at USC, things are far worse than even I thought! What is most amazing to me is that the whole thing is on videotape and they are still blatantly lying about how things transpired!
The bottom line here is that what happened to me was a grave injustice that should concern every freedom-loving American regardless of their political persuasion.
Just like I will not be intimidated in my crusade to correct the historical record about what really happened with regard to the media coverage of Barack Obama and Sarah Palin in the 2008 Presidential election, I will not allow media hypocrisy, apathy and hatred of conservatives to stop me from making sure the free speech rights of all Americans are as fully protected as possible.
I plan to aggressively pursue my legal rights in this matter (already, USC has stupidly rejected an incredibly generous settlement offer that included no money, but rather only an apology and a full page in the school newspaper) and intend to formally announce those plans soon.
John Ziegler is the author of the “The Death of Free Speech” and the producer of “Media Malpractice…How Obama Got Elected and Palin Was Targeted.”







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524 Comments
Mr. Ziegler
You are clearly in the wrong. Wrong about having the freedom of speech. Wrong about thinking that journalism is about the truth. And wrong that a University is a place of Higher Education and Higher learning.
Hypocrisy Alert:
Cuba wants to 'put everything on the table' including human rights- Raul Castro. Of course, they can free their political prisoners if they want to show good faith. However, why should they? What happened to Mr Ziegler routinely happens to journalists in Cuba… he is a political prisoner, plain and simple. You all know very well that if he was a left wing advocate his treatment would have been FAR different…
The new model of 'free speech', it's only free for the approved people. Ask DHS sec. Napalitano about who is approved.
And one more thing, has your old buddy, Congressman John Yarmuth – D, spoke up about your treatment. I wouldn't hold my breath.
The new model of 'free speech', it's only free for the approved people. Ask DHS sec. Napalitano about who is approved.
And one more thing, has your old buddy, Congressman John Yarmuth – D, spoke up about your treatment. I wouldn't hold my breath.
If this were a Fox News event, and you were throwing photos of Jesus carved out of horse dung at them and holding mock sacrifices in the streets, Wilson would nominate you for the Pulitzer.
No incident has better illustrated the hypocritical left and its subjective belief in free speech. They are more than happy to bring out the storm troopers and frog march anyone if they don't fit the right political profile. That these people are the "gatekeepers" is both extremely frightening and pathetic. Truth is, they don't know what democracy is, neither do they care.
This was NOT a publicity stunt? Heh. Sez the wingtard Michael Moore.
While USC is indeed a “private” school, this does not in any way legally make their property like that of a private residence. First, they take federal tax money, and second it has a very “open” campus and the area I was in has direct access from a public street without even a gate blocking the way
What difference does this make? Taking federal funds does not take away your status as private property. And being open grounds does not take away their ability to kick you off if they feel like it (even if their motivations for doing so are unjust).
Look, thanks for making this documentary about Palin. I hope it is good. But you don't help the conservative cause when you throw a fit about free speech rights and about people taking away your constitutionally granted freedoms when it just isn't true. Legally (and constitutionally), they were completely within their rights to kick you off their lawn. Doesn't mean it was not closed minded of them to do so, but stop crying about your rights being violated. They weren't.
You handled this much better than I would. I appreciate all your efforts, Mr. Ziegler, to expose the radical bias in journalism. As a journalist myself, I'm sick of the silence and of being silenced.
So thank you for always presenting the facts, the evidence, and your argument, with professionalism and competence. I purchased your Media Malpractice. Great piece of work.
Hey Ziegler…. now you know how I was "constantly" treated by the Bu$$Hitler Facist Administration for 8 horrid years….. they had NEO-Con THUGS constantly beating me up and taking my "Big Mac" hamburgers away from me…. good thing I had my own secret supplies of "Whopper" burgers & pizza's or I'd of surely wasted away during those stressful times…. Thank God (even though I don't believe in God or any other religeous non-sense) THE ONE was elected and UTOPIA on earth is in coming into view and we'll soon be living in the USSofAmerika…. All Hail the STATE!!
Whether or not the college had the "right" to kick you off is really a moot point to me. I seriously doubt they would have chosen to exercise that right if you had had the "correct" politics and I think that's what I take away from this. The fact that they were giving Katie Couric and award already lets us know what their standards for journalism are and anything that doesn't fall in line will be suppressed. Same old same old.
Whether or not the college had the "right" to kick you off is really a moot point to me. I seriously doubt they would have chosen to exercise that right if you had had the "correct" politics and I think that's what I take away from this. The fact that they were giving Katie Couric and award already lets us know what their standards for journalism are and anything that doesn't fall in line will be suppressed. Same old same old.
Things ARE far worse than you thought.
John needs to file suit against USC and take them all to court. What happened was unbelievable and USC needs to be held to account. Go John! Get 'em bigtime!!!
First, let me say that Ms. Couric is a vile, opportunistic twit. However, Mr. Ziegler, so are you. You’ve long ago lost what little credibility you had left after your public discussion of a female news anchor’s pubic hair at one of your old jobs.
This incident at USC is embarrassing for you and for the movement you apparently espouse. We don’t need people like you, Mr. Ziegler. You’re not helping the cause. The only thing worse than a Michael Moore is a 3rd- rate, wannabe Michael Moore.
You ridicule Couric’s laughable attempts at journalism. Take a look in the mirror.
All the more reason to hate 'SC.
good point- we don't like it when the left makes specious claims as well. However, we all know this happened because of WHY he was there, not what he was doing. As we said- hypocrisy alert.
I bet Homeland Security has a thick file on John Ziegler!
Hey Ziegler,
When you were arrested were you informed of your rights? If not, allow me.
You have the right to be jailed
You have the right to be shook down.
You have the right to be presumed guilty.
You have the right to hire a lawyer.
If you want any more rights you have to hire a lawyer, because the law is whatever they want it to be and they want it to make them money.
Yes, I agree that if he was from the left they would not have kicked him off; instead he would have been a hero and a man for our times, etc…
But the simple fact is that he is complaining about his violated rights and so forth. This is just not true. We on the right need to be very sober and honest about things so that people see us and recognize that we embrace the truth, not partisan crap.
We complain all the time that the Left uses lines from the Constitution out of context and for their own political benefit. And they do that all the time. I hate it. Well this is what Ziegler is doing here. To tell you the truth, it bugs me just as much. I love Palin, and despise what Couric did to her. But I love the Constitution even more.
John,
So much for fair and Balanced.
How is it that Katie Curic could receive an award for an interview that mostly was taken out of context and spewed as hate by mainstream media? “Journalism Excellence” awards should be given to those reporting the truth…….Right John?
My hats off to you and your hired Cameramen who attempted to cover this story. After reviewing the recording and reviewing Ernest J. Wilsons' response to an e-Mail, is this not Slanderous and a violation to your Rights as an american citizen?________
Little things like this that happen to conservatives around the country are infuriating, when viewed on their own. Taken as a group, though? They paint a disturbing picture of an emerging fascist environment. I wonder if I'm wrong, and just having a 'conspiracy theorist moment'. But I also wonder, if I'm right – will people smarter than me see it before it's too late?
Zig, keep fighting!
We know the REAL reason you were arrested. You spoke the truth about the cabal.
dan__O, you would have a point if Mr. Ziegler was bieng purposefully disruptive on the USC campus, but watch the video, if you haven't already. Considering John Ziegler's actions, in no way did he deserve the treatment he got.
"I went to USC intending to simply let as many people as possible know that the award for “journalism excellence” they were giving Katie Couric for her Sarah Palin interview was a complete farce. To prove my point, I wanted to give away copies of my film “Media Malpractice,” which has my own Sarah Palin interview as a special feature."
So you were there to protest, not report. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just want to be clear.
How many Che t-shirts can we put you down for, John?
Part of your legal defense must be to track down footage of leftist protesters/media coverage of other events at USC or other "private" universities, preferably instances in which conservatives were being protested (David Horowitz, Ann Coulter and others never fail to ignite the wingnuts). Once you locate the footage, a five minute captioned YouTube "reel" of select portions would make your case quite effectively to the public.
Your legal action in this case, by the way, will bring needed attention to the proto-fascist tactics of today's Democrats/leftists.
You are Michael Moore with a red ballcap instead of a blue ballcap. You and he disgust me equally.
it does seem that Mr Ziegler is at least as interested in the outrage of his incarceration as he was in provoking it. Doesn't make him a bad guy; he is resorting to time tested political theater to make his point. What we love about conservative minds is the ideological honesty Mr Dan O brings to the debate.
Yes, we are better than they are. Because we are clear minded and honest. No need for leftist kabuki theater…
Point made.
Really Dan O just keep that in mind when they do to u, pumpkin!!! xoxoxo
YOU GO BOY!!!!
You should post an online petition or something on your website. While it's true our voices aren't being heard, perhaps a large petition to demand USC not only publicly and loudly apologize for your treatment, but this "dean" be publicly reprimanded for blatantly LYING about what happened could help.
You are the man Mr. Zeigler….keep up the excellent work.
When is someone going to do a documentary about the disparate treatment of conservatives and liberals? I think it would be excellent viewing to compare how tolerant liberal and conservative communities are.
All one has to do is look at that slag Garafalo to see your statement is right on the mark. As long as you protest against conservatives it's cool. But heaven forbid you challenge liberals on anything and all of a sudden you're labeled a redneck racist.
Personally I want that miserable excuse for a human being to keep talking. The more she spews her hate and bigotry the more she marginalizes idiots like Olberdork.
She should really shave her pits though….that's just nasty…..
I am now, officially, a USC fan. Who are you to interrupt any private ceremony? Are you familiar with the concept of "freedom of assembly?" That means that anyone can get together to do something they want, as long as it is not illegal, without fear of being interrupted by a fool peddling his own sad movie. Handcuffs–excellent. Hope you spent some real time in jail. Protest all you like, but stay away from my right to assemble.
Okay, the media is biased, horribly, awfully, disgustingly so. What they don't achieve by brainwashing people in the present, they do by spinning history in books about the past.
That being said, where does the conservative movement go from here? They will never be treated fairly in the media, and I'd hate to say it, but "Obama's a Socialist/Communist" is not a winning strategy because a.) most people don't know the definition of socialism and communism, and b.) most of the people who voted for him –the ones that voted for him just because he's (kinda) black — don't care, and also, see a.)
It's not going to win an election, as true as it is. Actually, I'm more disgusted with Congress. They love it when we little people foam at the mouth for or against Obama on sites like this, because no matter who's in the White House, and what's said on Capitol Hill, most of those Ds and Rs are friends after hours — and their amazing lifestyle NEVER EVER changes, regardless of the economy or who's in the White House.
I agree with you. We need to be careful not to damage our claim to speak for the our rights by making the same kind of specious claims the left makes.
If USC is private property, then they had the right to kick him off the property — even if they take federal funds.
Accepting federal funds does not make you a public creatute. That's the kind of argument the left is making with the banks.
I would agree with you except the dean had to write that email full of lies. They clearly are trying to twist what happened to make themselves look like innocent victims. They are lying, but why? If they feel they did nothing wrong, then why lie about what happened?
I really liked your documentary "media malpractice." I am not sure of the legal ramifications of the actions taken by campus security, but it does go to show there is just as much or more of a "chill wind" blowing under the Obama administration than there ever was under Bush. (I actually do agree it was just as wrong to ban Nuke Lalouche from Cooperstown for his crazy politics.) Liberals liken album burning (Dixie Chicks) to physically injuring and threatening to arrest a person who was not disrupting anything. That kind of moral equivalency doesn't make any sense.
[...] Here is Ziegler’s inline sentence by sentence answer (in bold): Thank you for your communication about the recent incident that took place at the Cronkite Awards ceremony involving an individual named John Ziegler. I want you to know the background of the situation. [...]
I don't know the answer to this question, so I'm asking in earnest: who maintains the roads, sidewalks and rights-of-way? If it is funded or even subsidized by the public, then, wouldn't any member of the public have an equal right to be on the sidewalk, road or right-of-way?
Again, it might not be "fair" that he got kicked off, but USC was perfectly within their rights to do so. It is private property. At any point they can ask you to leave–for any reason.
To complain that they kick off people from the right and welcome people from the left would be a great line to take. I remember reading somewhere recently about how speakers from the right have to hire bodyguards when they go on campuses now. This is insane.
But it does not help the issue to make false claims about constitutional rights being taken away.
Distruptive, purposefully or otherwise, doesn't matter once your standing on private property; which he was. Doesn't matter if it's "open" or not, doesn't matter if there's a fence or a line etc. Private land is private land, you get told to leave once and if you don't then they get to toss you or call the cops. This is why ACTUAL demonstrations are so often held in the public space nearest the "target" as opposed to in the lobby or whatnot.
If Ziegler really was just in this to get out an opposing point of view, he could've done so WITHOUT legal harassment across the street or in any other nearby public space. Maybe even could've set up a booth or brought some sidekicks to help hand out more copies of the movie. But, of course, if you do THAT you're not going to get on the news.
Hello, Great Scruffy One: Thank you for helping us to keep these upstarts in their place. I intend to highlight it tonight on my show, My legal expert will be Jeanine Garafolo who will discuss the reality that freedom of speech does not include right wing racists. We will also feature fetching shots of Katie Couric. My reports will be perfect since I have an Ivy League degree in agriculture. Mr. Ziegler will be my "worst person in the world" on tonight's broadcast. PS: Have you ever considered using superglue to hold your hair in place?
John has been on my fave list ever since he smacked old David Shuster right in the coco. He's the only person I've seen in a long while who will actually stand up on national TV (if you could call MSDNC that) and tell these psuedo journalists they are a joke.
Loved Media Malpractice, John, and I will buy your next documentary. Keep it up!
I see the trolls are out and about today.
Depends on where they are located. On city/state roads, the city usually owns them, though they often make the adjacent property owner maintain them. On something like a university, the roads and sidewalks are usually part of the property and are maintained by the property owner — kind of like your driveway.
So generally, yes, you have a right to be on a sidewalk (though there are loitering laws), unless the sidewalk is part of private property. If USC is private, then it owns and maintains its own roads and it has the right to eject Ziegler. If it sits on city streets, then the sidewalks would belong to the city and Ziegler would have a right to be on those sidewalks.
what appears to frustrate some of the posts here is the duplicity of the media; the knowlege aforehand that a conservative activist will not get fair treatment. It is frustrating, but illuminating as well. Most of us do not like confrontational tactics; we prefer the cool logic of intellectual debate.
When O''Reilly sends the irrepressible Jesse Watters out to ambush some miscreant we know how it hacks off the left but still cringe…
such is life for conservatives…
Just like Tancredo was able to freely give a speech at the University of North Carolina, and like the Minutemen were at Columbia?
There's nothing wrong with protesting, that's your right, but there is something wrong with attempting to shut down free speech. What Mr. Ziegler was doing wasn't shutting down their ceremony, what leftists do on a regular basis is. Feel free to chant your chants and assemble, but your right to assemble doesn't trump someone with "unpopular" views' right to free speech either.
P.S. Protesting on public sidewalks usually requires you to get a permit. With rare exceptions, they can't deny you that permit. If they do, you can sue the city/state and win fairly easily.
If you ever want to protest in D.C. you also need to get a permit to protest on Federal property. Last I knew, you had to get those from the Park Police.
Thanks, Andrew. However, not to be churlish, but it sounds like you're saying in a lawyerly fashion that you don't know either. I'm not trying to provoke a fight or anything, but doesn't it appear that "USC is private property and therefore has the right to eject him" begs the question entirely?
Then you would be ok with the fools at Columbia being roughed up and thrown in jail for what they did to the Minute Men?
I'm kind of a mixed mind on this one… if USC asked him to leave and he didn't do so, John's got no argument to stand on. (although, the only reason I think he was asked to leave was his right-leaning stance here.).
Even John's own comments in the email is throwing me for a loop on this one… "I used the word ”protest”…" ….
yet later: "…and was irrelevant because I was not “protesting” but rather asking questions),"
so you protested, but you weren't protesting?
The general gist of the Dean's letter doesn't clear up matters at all, as I don't believe he's being completely honest in his letter either.
I'm willing to go a step farther. You were an agitator. So what? At least the USC officials knew they didn't have to provide bodyguards for the speakers. The next time David Horowitz and Ann Coulter are invited to speak and need six security guards to protect them from the crowds inside and outside the auditorium I'll remember how dangerous your activities were. Too bad you were carrying your book instead of a cream pie. A bit of advice: The next time this happens, remember to drop to the ground, shriek like a little girl while pleading "Don't tase me, bro!"
I'm willing to go a step farther. You were an agitator. So what? At least the USC officials knew they didn't have to provide bodyguards for the speakers. The next time David Horowitz and Ann Coulter are invited to speak and need six security guards to protect them from the crowds inside and outside the auditorium I'll remember how dangerous your activities were. Too bad you were carrying your book instead of a cream pie. A bit of advice: The next time this happens, remember to drop to the ground, shriek like a little girl while pleading "Don't tase me, bro!"
Yo, Gilman: We loved your starring role in "Creature from the Black Lagoon." Good to see you back.
Based on that. Michael Moore is first or second rate? You're kidding right? By the way do you have such a weak backbone about a joke done on air? Or are you just a little mommas boy… Wusssy change the W to a P that is you! Turn in your gender ID card. You are not a man..
Actually, I was just trying to give you a thorough (if lawyerish) answer. I am fairly certain Ziegler was on private property. I can't be 100% sure because it's not absolutely clear to me exactly where he was standing. But he appears to be well beyond anything that would constitute a public sidewalk.
Moreover, in the article, Ziegler himself seems to indicate that he moved onto the campus under the belief that the lack of a gate and the connection to a public road somehow made the entire sidewalk private — that's not correct.
John is right to protest this and I hope he does so as vigorously as he has the capacity. This is a travesty of justice and a clear violation of free speech. IF it were Code Pink 'protesting' they would have all kinds of access and the 'film crews' would be busy recording it all. If Ann Coulter were speaking, the pie throwers would somehow find their way to the stage. But a hypocritcal award ceremony ? PLEASE. These academics have what they consider a priviledged position in society and what they say goes. It is THEIR definition of Free Speech one should adopt, don't you see?!- Of course John was not only lied about, lied to but treated in a way that is objectionable in the extreme. We watched the equilivent of Jews being boarded on cattle cars to death camps. Because if one is not careful, standing by and doing nothing will result in one being NEXT!- Free Speech has come to us at a huge price in blood of our fathers on foreign soil. We cannot prize it higher. Go for broke, John!
Concern troll alert.
We can't change their minds, so let's do nothing. Congress is bad, but we're all friends, aren't we?
I also wanted to say that I went looking for you last night as a google search for your name, to see what 'they'were saying all around and about, John. If you clicked on John Ziegler you got muptiple replications of webpages endlessly. Somebody out there is up to no good regarding John's name on the Internet. They are out to sabotage and do damage, John. Be careful.
Fair enough.
I absolutely agree. I think it's amazingly sh..tty that USC would allow left wing protests, but will not afford the same privileges to a conservative. This hypocrisy should be pointed out and USC should be shamed for its one-sided tolerance.
That said, it really does not help us to overstate or mistate the injury. First, not only does that weaken the rights that we seek to protect, i.e. property rights. But secondly, it turns this into a "who is in the right" kind of deal, whereas it could have been clear that USC was in the wrong.
It would have been better for Ziegler and the rest of us, if he had sought permission to protest and been denied. Or if he had left when he was told to. He could still make the claim of censorship without having to debate whether or not he was the bad guy in this.
Correction: Legally protesting on public sidewalk usually requires you to get a permit.
Let's not throw the civil disobedience baby out with the bathwater. You can always force them to arrest you.
I dunno, I think laughing maniacally like a drunken idiot while being forcibly dragged around like deadweight seems like a pretty entertaining way to go about things, as well
As I've said before, and I will continue to say–we're too civilized. Stir up a stink. Bring cartloads of books and a whole lot of your friends. Bring six camera crews. Don't forget picket signs. Make them arrest you. All of you. And if they don't arrest you, make enough noise and cause a sufficient disruption that they will arrest you. I'm not ready to advise violence yet, but we may even have to use that too. We cannot be sheep quietly being led to the slaughter. It's their turn to get a taste of their own medicine. They're not afraid of free speech–they're afraid of free citizens!
Forget about suing. Check out what happened to Dr. Savage. Judges only let politically correct people sue for damages.
You're right, up to a point. We don't have the lengthy experience at disruption and mayhem that the left has honed carefully since my student radical days. It's a work in progress, but we're learning. Thanks for the tips.
True. Although, you'd be surprised how many of these "civil disobedience" protests actually are carefully orchestrated.
Did you know that the idiots who protest at the IMF in DC usually get permits to protest? When I was still in D.C., they even met with the cops to discuss arranging for symbolic arrests. What they did was to set up an area where they could protest and where they couldn't. At the appointed time, a group moved from the allowed area to the forbidden area. They sat down, smiled for the camera. The cops cuffed them. The cameras left. The cops uncuffed them. Everyone went home happy.
John, I used to have a lot of respect for you during your days at KFI, but unfortunately this type of obnoxious behavior as you've been engaging in self-promotion isn't an isolated event. You have bitten the hand that feeds you on several occasions and you have been are a terror to work with. You really need a lesson in humility and if you spend any time in jail maybe Bubba can drill some into you.
And don't forget, I'm a lawyer. I hedge for a living. My favorite ice cream is strawberry icecream, but there's nothing wrong with chocolate either.
Moore is a first-rate hack. Mr. Ziegler is a third-rate hack the likes of which the conservative movement does not need. You, Fletch, should have finished getting your GED.
If the hard lefty campus radicals were treated exactly the same, I would have no qualms about the universitiy's actions. If Campus Security clamped down when bathing adverse juvenilles shouted down conservative speech, again, this would not concern me. OK, I am glad you are doing what you're doing John, but, if you attempt to agitate, no matter how "intensely, this is going to happen. That being said, "Keep it UP!"
Up here in the Great White North we have an ice cream called "Neopolitan" which is stripes of chocolate, vanilla and strawberry. I'm sure you have something similar down there! Now, isn't that the perfect lawyerly ice cream?
Does the conservative movement really benefit from having this guy as a loud and visible representative? If we see hacks like Michael Moore, David Shuster and now Susan Roesgen for what they are, let's just call a spade a spade here. The libs dont have a monopoly on opportunistic, pseudo-journalist hacks.
We've got that too, and it probably should be considered THE ice cream of the legal profession. LOL!
I am definitely a conservative, and regret to say that you are absolutely, positively wrong. Despite your lay opinion of what constitutes "private" and what constitutes a violation of your first amendment rights, the security people at USC acted appropriately. The law does not depend on your interpretation of what is private, and what you have a right to do. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Please check with a knowledgeable attorney next time before getting all huffy and offended. The video is an embarrassment.
When I saw the video, I think I had the same feelings of shock and irony that I saw on John's face. The whole incident was creepy and made me think in Orwellian terms.
LOL!
Andrew: The case law in California on what comprises private property is all over the place. It's usually argued around whether the property is private commercial or "private-public." USC is hiding behind a gray area of the law that leans heavily toward it being a public forum by virtue of its status as a large, urban place of public discourse. The nature of the event also affects the nature of the site's status as public versus private. If Ziegler had been protesting alleged leftist indoctrination by professors, during regular school hours, he would clearly have been acting improperly on private property. But this was a public event, and public events draw people to private property simply by virtue of the nature of the event. It also helps that Ziegler's protest directly addressed the subject of the public event. That said, I don't care. It's time to shove their own tactics back up their wazoos, and if it results in arrests, that's a price we need to be willing to pay.
If Mr. Moore was doing this, it would be the front story on every MSNBC show for a week. With Mr. Moore doing the interviews.
Ok, that's funny. I've got to give you points for that one. LOL!
yeah but just sitting idly on the sidelines while the libs are livin la vida loca isn't getting the job done.
You make an excellent, high-road argument, and I can't disagree, but enough is enough. It's about time we had our own people with the stones to do what John ZEigler is doing. As far as I can tell, he is the only one to take it to this level and I'm sorry, more power to him.
If this had happened to a liberal person, it would be all over the news. We have to push this and keep asking those in charge why it's not being given the same coverage. Mr. Zeigler, is done sitting on the sidelines and I applaud him for it.
I'm not defending Mr. Ziegler's credentials. I'm defending his right to protest. Moore, Shuster and Roesgen have had an immense effect on public opinion simply because they got attention, and have a near-monopoly on public activism. We have to develop that high-profile, anti-establishment ability. I don't know enough about Mr. Ziegler's bona fides to make a judgment about his journalistic standards. But I'll take what I can get until something better comes along. The conservative movement already has a good number of reasonable, intelligent public figures. We need a few street-fighters as well. Occasionally, you just have to come out swinging.
I suspect Couric's people have Ziegler high on the "whatever you do, don't let this guy in" list since his full time job seems to be chasing her around. Good luck with your suit, but private property is private property, whether they take Federal money or not. And c'mon–of COURSE it was publicity stunt, and a successful one–he got on the news, and got video of your mistreatment he can put on his next dvd! Not saying USC's security wasn't heavy handed, but I just don't feel for the guy.
I've got no problems using their tactics against them, though I think small scale protests rarely have any real value — and those that do are usually spontaneous, they are not generally the result of an activist trying to get attention.
When you say "hiding behind" you're saying that the issue is unsettled? Or are you saying that USC is technically correct. Also, wouldn't Ziegler still need a permit in California, even on public property?
I just did a quick bit of research and it seems USC falls into the category of "private research university". Still and all, it ranked within the top-10 receivers of federal dollars to support the operations of its various schools. Does this blur the lines? To my mind it does. But I'm not a lawyer.
Of course, this in no way changes the fact that the University, the so-called "marketplace of ideas", is engaged in an arguable act of censorship. At least it looks that way to me.
Lawhawk, just google Ziegler and Darcie Divita and you'll learn all you need to know about this guy. I enjoyed him on KFI (LA conservative talk radio) until I found out about his history in Kentucky and the circumstances of his firing from KFI. Trust me, we don't want a person like this front and center.
Welcome to Obamerica, Mr. Ziegler.
The First Amendment has been suspended for those who don't believe like we tell 'em.
And that Second Amendment sheist ain't for long either.
Tenth Amendment? States' Rights? Schmates' Rights. The Constitution is what we say it is.
Get over it. We won! We have the Bureaucracy, the Media (Propaganda), Education (Brainwashing), the House, Senate, Judiciary and Presidency. We can do pretty much what we please, including arresting private citizens on the sidewalk if they hold political beliefs we don't like. Just be glad you're not afraid of rats, buddy-boy (only those familiar will "1984" will get that one). And don't you think about dragging your silly white ass to a tea party because we're taking names. Ask Clueless Joe — paying taxes is patriotic. Once we get this Oconomy going again, you're gonna pay even more.
No Taxation without Representation? So long as we got Representation without Taxation, you're gonna get hosed. Get used to it.
I'm not aware of the incident of which you speak. Is there a link anywhere? The reason I ask is that if Ziegler did behave inappropriately on-air, it does have an impact on his credibility to go after other journalists. I'd like to see the whole thing, in context, so I have the whole picture.
Here is a man to be admired. Cynics everywhere will attack him as a self promoter and were that true, so what? But I can't imagine that the crap he is taking would be worth any amount of money. We need more of him, someone that is putting himself on the line in the cause of Free Speech and the protection of our shredded Constitution. He isn't just whining on boards like most do and praying for something to happen.
I'm finding it disgusting how USC is covering up for physically abusing John Ziegler and how Dean of "Communication" Ernest Wilson is a coward who won't answer phone calls after spreading lies. He's at 213-740-9891 and his assistant's name is Karen. She'll just try to transfer you to James Grant, the Exec. Dir. of Media Relations for a PR spin – 213-740-6156. I hope people keep letting them know that John simply trying to get out the word about "liberal" hack jobber Katie Couric's attack on Sarah Palin is a valid exercise in free speech, while USC's actions are garbage. Personally, I'm tearing up my USC T-shirt and the Trojan football team can go to hell this year as far as I'm concerned.
which dovetails nicely to Mr Dan O's observations. If you hold both the moral and the ideological high ground, then hold it… no reason to act like nitwits because it's acceptable to for 'the other side'. The fact is, as the Tea Parties suggest- that grounded adults are raising their voices in unison without 'community organization' speaks to the greater truth- that we are defined by that which makes us better…
You know…it's sad but shame on us for behaving like adults. My parents always said you can throw all the tantrums you want but you're not going to get your way. I guess they were wrong…judging how libs get what they want whenever they want by acting like children it does work to throw hissy fits and Conservatives should escalate the fight by using their tactics.
You probably won't find a single university in the country that doesn't take federal funds in one form or another. Merely taking funds does not make them a public institution — although, federal funds usually do come with all kinds of strings attached. Having done work for clients who receive federal research grants, I can tell you that these requirements are extensive. That said, I am not aware of any requirement that these schools allow free speech of any sort.
Lawhawk brings up an interesting point below about USC possibly being considered a public-private entity because of the character of the organization. I'm not sure, however, if that actually applies to USC or if that's just an argument Ziegler could try. It's also not clear if that would excuse his lack of a permit. We need to hear from Hawk, he knows California law — I don't.
By the way, don't get me wrong. I think it's disgraceful and hypocritical that USC would allow left wing protests but not conservative protests. That should be held against them by all their "customers" (i.e. parents and alumni donors).
Ah, Che Guevara….murdering B@st@rd who died like a coward. "Wait I'm Che…I'm more important to you alive."
There is a line in Ghostbusters that I think is apropos. It's when Bill Murray is in the restaurant and the other three come running in covered in goo. Murray tells them, "guys, you're scaring the straights." I have nothing against protesting, but you never want to "scare the straights."
The Tea Parties were a perfect example of how to do this right. You make the point but you don't turn off the people who aren't innately ideological.
We know it's never that simple. The issue may never be entirely settled. California has a tendency to handle these matters on a case by case basis, resulting in often conflicting results. And as we both were taught, hard cases make bad law. What USC is hiding behind is its contention that it is correct rather than that it could be correct.
I'm also a legal fan of the argument that your private property rights decrease in inverse proportion to the amount of federal and state taxpayer funds you take. USC takes a lot of taxpayers funds. Those are public funds. It's a sad legal argument that it isn't their sole or major source of funding. That's like being a little pregnant.
As for the permit, that's not even entirely clear, although he probably should have had one. As an individual, it's a toss-up. He probably loses on the issue because his book is a commercial enterprise. With a group, the purpose of the permit is to maintain the public peace, not to regulate the content. And again, I don't much care, since a trespassing conviction is a small price to pay as against allowing the left free reign to propagandize on our university campuses.
The lack of clarity in California law is made abundantly clear when my alma mater at Berkeley, and my son's alma mater at UCLA, both public institutions, have attempted to squelch dissenting opinion without even the pretense of it being private property. Properly permitted pro-Israel rallies at UC Santa Cruz have been violently squelched with the complicity of the university itself.
And that is in keeping with the contention that the hard-core left sees civilized discourse as a weakness to be exploited.
ooooohhhh you must be Cindy Sheehans life coach, then….
Just thought I would throw this in:
GM now takes federal funds. I don't think that means that I am now allowed to go anywhere I want within GM property.
On my way home, I used to listen to Ziegler when he was on KFI. I have no idea what SalmonKing is talking about.
Bzzzzzzzzzt. False premise.
The concept of "freedom of assembly" does not include "without fear of being interrupted by a fool peddling his own sad movie."
Thanks for playing.
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