Today, We Are All Hondurans
by John T. SimpsonYou all know the story to date. Former Honduran president Manuel Zelaya was given the bum’s rush out of Tegucigalpa to Costa Rica by Honduras’ military on June 25th. In the days since, this apparent brutal seizure of power has received worldwide condemnation, most particularly by the Organization of American States, Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez, Nicaragua president Daniel Ortega, the Castro brothers of Cuba and President Obama. Ya, I know. Bear with me. That’s just the setup.
July Fourth, the OAS ejected Honduras from its membership for refusing to reinstate Zelaya, but too late. The defiant interim Honduran government, now led by Roberto Micheletti, had already said in so many words, “you can’t fire me! I quit!” In short, the mouse gave the eagle the finger. I can appreciate that. At present, the possibility of sanctions is very real, a fact that could hurt the already hardscrabble nation very deeply, especially if the coffee trade is affected.
From the blustering we’re hearing from Chavez, Ortega and even President Obama himself, you’d think it would only be a matter of time before armies are lined up at the Honduran border, ready to reinstate democracy at the point of a gun. Yet who are the real democrats here? For that, you need to know the backstory. Let’s face it, you can’t properly review a movie unless you know all the plot intricacies. There are enough here for a Hitchcock film.
Let’s take a trip in the Wayback Machine to June 25th. Supposedly, the supremely democractic elected leader of Honduras, President Manuel Zelaya, was rousted in his pajamas and tossed into the cargo hold of a Costa Rica-bound fruit plane by a power-grabbing military junta, going by major news media reporting. Wrong. He was allowed to dress. I guess there’s a different kind of Pajamas Media out there now. You know. The good one’s evil twin. What else is new?
But much more important, it appears that President Zelaya was actively engaged in violating the Honduran Constitution by pushing an illegal ballot referendum to extend his term in office that had been vehemently opposed by the Honduran Supreme Court, the attorney general, the Congress and even Zelaya’s own party. On June 25th, in violation of Supreme Court order, President Zelaya ordered the commander of Honduras’ armed forces, Gen. Romeo Vasquez, to distribute the illegal ballots which, curiously, had just arrived from Venezuela courtesy of Hugo Chavez.
Gen. Vasquez refused. Zelaya fired him. The senior Honduran military command resigned in protest, and also refused to carry out Zelaya’s illegal order. The Supreme Court ruled Zelaya’s firing of Gen. Vasquez illegal on a 5-0 vote and ordered Zelaya to reinstate him. Zelaya refused, and continued with his attempt to impose the illegal ballot referendum on the Honduran people.
It was at this point the Honduran government had had enough of Manuel Zelaya and booted him out of the country. Some news reports indicate Zelaya was given the choice of resignation or imprisonment on charges of treason. If so, Zelaya had a lot more to gain flying out of the country ‘in his pajamas’ and whining to all his Leftist Socialist friends around the world, of which there is no shortage these days. The State Run Media, of course (ours, not Honduras), played out the Zelaya sob story to perfection, with all those messy Honduran Constitutional details somehow unreported.
All except for the Wall Street Journal, which titled their opinion piece on the subject, “Honduras Defends Its Democracy.” It’s a must-read, especially given all the blatantly pro-Zelaya coverage in the Vein Stream Media. The Honduran-based Fausta’s Blog has been covering these events for months. Gateway Pundit also has some incredible coverage of events in Honduras that you just won’t see anywhere else.
Was it a military coup? Look at how events proceeded and you tell me. The president of the Honduran Congress, Roberto Micheletti, also a member of Zelaya’s Liberal Party, was appointed Zelaya’s interim successor as called for in the Honduras Constitution. The Army went back to their barracks. The senior military officers were reinstated along with Gen. Vasquez.
Now, we all know what military coups look like. We’ve seen them in Thailand, Myanmar, all over the world. Yet never in any previous hardline coup by a ruthless military junta did I see tens of thousands of ordinary citizens swarming to the streets in support of it, even celebrating. You’d have thought it was the Fourth of July in Tegucigalpa! Oh yeah, it was.
There are certainly plenty of Zelaya supporters protesting, but compare the crowd sizes at the Gateway Pundit site linked above. It’s an eye-opening demonstration of how the news media can totally distort public perception by focusing on the dozens and ignoring the tens of thousands.
I have also not heard one condemnation by either the press, President Obama or any other government about Hugo Chavez’ threats to invade Honduras, a sovereign nation, in order to get his illegal ballot investment back. By the way, the same OAS that belatedly ejected Honduras for anti-democratic activities has just now welcomed Cuba, the 7th-happiest nation on earth, as a full member in good standing.
The ironies here could not be blacker. All branches of the Honduran government, legislative, executive and judicial, which appear to have exercised Constitutional jurisprudence in this matter, while Maneul Zelaya has done anything but, are the objects of righteous wrath and perhaps even sanctions by the Obama Administration in the form of aid cutoff and other punitive economic measures. Military cooperation has already been suspended.
Yet the real coup and bloodshed of innocents in Iran is met by Obama with reluctantly withdrawn Fourth of July BBQ invites to Iranian diplomats, and not much else. President Obama is even opposing financial sanctions on Iran at the upcoming G8 meeting, and is working overtime to undermine their implementation. All the other G8 members but Russia favor them. Might as well say “Happy Fourth of July, Honduras and Iran! Viva Zelaya! Signed, President Obama. PS Sorry about the BBQ disinvites, Iran. Too much bad press.” And I thought Jimmy Carter was pathetic.
I for one stand with Honduran people. The evidence seems quite clear to me that the Honduran government acted in Constitutional fashion, and President Zelaya did not. I say BUY HONDURAN! Contact the Honduran embassy at embassy@hondurasemb.org and let them know that REAL Americans stand for freedom and democracy, and against tinpot wannabe dictators-for-life like Zelaya and Chavez in full measure. Feel free to let the White House and State hear it, too.
Our President does not speak for us. He certainly doesn’t for me. But as one blog commenter summed it up beautifully, “NOTE TO PRESIDENT: If you find yourself on the same side of any issue as Chavez, Ortega and the Castro brothers, it’s time rethink your position.” What he said.
Lastly, I would much rather be screenwriting, and will again after this oped. At least until the next outrage. But who else is even covering this issue the way it demands to be? You know, people, it’s bad enough when the Obama press corps kneels at the altar in humiliating fashion. Quite another when that same media plays up an apparent democratic overthrow into a ruthless military coup for political purposes. It gets into scary Eastasia-Eurasia territory, and I really don’t like it.
And when I REALLY don’t like it, that’s when you’ll see me here. Some things are just way more important than film. Like standing with the Honduran people, in the face of a Leftist propaganda and political onslaught that threatens their democracy a hell of a lot more than Manuel Zelaya ever could.






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178 Comments
NO offense but who the h** cares? There is plenty of upset and misery here in the US. Lets hold the stupid POTUS feet to the fire for the nonsense he is generating here.
I don't know where Honduras is nor do I care.
Ditto, Iran.
I care because it will happen here too:
Representative Jose Serrano (D) has introduced a bill in the House to abolish the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution, which limits presidents to two consecutive terms or ten years in office. The bill that was introduced (February 2009) is HJ Res 5.
This resolution is in the first step in the legislative process. Introduced bills and resolutions first go to committees that deliberate, investigate, and revise them before they go to general debate. The majority of bills and resolutions never make it out of committee. If this joint resolution proposes an amendment to the Constitution, three-fourths of the states must ratify the proposal. A joint resolution, if not amending the constitution, may also be signed into law by the president.
You have a point, but this occaision demonstrates to any one with a brain cell that Obama sides with Dictators and other lowlifes( MSM).
The other thing, do you really want another dictatorship in your back yard?
Yellow journalism is alive and well. W.R. Hearst would be proud…
[...] You all know the story to date. Former Honduran president Manuel Zelaya was given the bum’s rush out of Tegucigalpa to Costa Rica by Honduras’ military on June 25th. In the days since, this apparent brutal seizure of power has received worldwide condemnation, most particularly by the Organization of American States, Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez, Nicaragua president Daniel Ortega, the Castro brothers of Cuba and President Obama. Ya, I know. Bear with me. That’s just the sRead more at http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jtsimpson/2009/07/07/today-we-are-all-hondurans/ [...]
Cogent foreign policy in this hemisphere seems so difficult for this administration. Dear Leader, let me make it very easy for you. Whatever Castro and Chavez do or say, you do or say the opposite. There, that wasn't so hard, was it?
Great piece. I wrote about this today in my own blog. Obama's stance on this is so completely backwards, unless of course he is wanting to become a dictator himself………………
Excellent piece. We used to help budding democracies, now we work to destroy them.
How can we change this? A simple three step method:
1. Contact your representative: http://senate.gov/general/contact_information/sen...
2. Clearly and concisely articulate why you are against the posturing and the actions of the administration.
3. Repeat
Wow. While I agree there is plenty to bash this president over domestically, his handling of these foreign affairs is very telling. I for one think he is a power-grabbing, socialist, Muslim, dictator-wannabe. And these stances on Honduras and Iran prove it.
No offense, Bruce, but you're clearly missing the point. The Honduran people are fighting to hold on to their democratic government not just in the face of the usual villains (Chavez, Castro, and Noriega), but at the opposition of the Organization of American States and our own president and news media. This should be a huge wake-up call to our citizenry, but they're all too consumed with the funeral of Michael Jackson.
Obama comes down on the wrong side of yet another vital international issue. Quelle surprise!
Thanks for your article, John. It helped fill in some information gaps that the MSM dropped on the floor of their limos.
The portrayal of this story in the press in America is just abhorrent. They will sink any and all stories that paint the messiah in a negative light. How does Obama just naturally get things so wrong? It worries me that his first instinct or knee-jerk reaction is to take the side of the fascist dictators or to even believe their side of the story. The worst part of all of this is this time (unlike Iran) even Secretary of State Clinton is siding with Zelaya and Obama.
I hope at some point Hillary has enough integrity to resign from this administration. I just can't believe she is this ignorant on foreign affairs or this meek in character to just follow through with Obama's foreign policy orders. But fear not America, Obama's strong faith in the United Nations is about to result in another round of "positive affirmation scoldings" for North Korea. That'll Stop 'Em!
I wonder which American Icon the Obama Administration will snuff next to provide them with enough media cover till this Honduras story blows over?
To pharaphrase Martin Luther King Jr.: A threat to justice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. If we stand by and allow our government to help a socialist dictator seize power in Honduras and turn our backs on the Honduran people, then we bear some of the responsilibity.
And this is one more thing to hold his feet to the fire on. Good grief! our president is openly supporting the subversion of a Constitutional Democracy in favor of a socialist dictator, and you want to ignore that? Hello! If he is openly doing it elsewhere, what won't he do here if we don't start rigning the alarm bells about him doing it there. Indeed, he's already having his lawyers at the White House trying to draw up legal justifications for him to wrest the process of treaty ratification away from the Senate so he can just ratfiy treaties all by himself. And where is this is the press? That's a clear violation of our own Constitution and the system of checks and balances. Aiding and abetting it in Honduras and doing it on the down-low here. It's all connected.
Representative Jose Serrano (D) has introduced a bill in the House to abolish the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution, which limits presidents to two consecutive terms or ten years in office.
Interesting! I see that the last action on this was on Feb 9. Gee, why didn't the Dems recommend this while W was in office?
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-hj5/show
This definately needs to be watched.
It's still in committee. Believe me, I've been watching that one very closely. The only thing I can say about it is that this same guy has been introducing this same measure for a long, long time now.
*sigh* I thought we were all Iraqis, with out purple thumbs. And then we were all Afghanis. And then last month we were all Iranians. I can't be Honduran, too! Being American is taking every shred of my energy and resources.
All I can say after Obama's stance on Iran, North Korea, and now Honduras is this. At least he is CONSISTENT !!!! Oh yeah, should we be afraid he is meeting with Vladimir Putin today?
are you surprised that leftist are supporting each other no matter what… and since they overrun our media there is no more objective and based on reality reporting except hard to find blogs…
thank you
At one time the U.S. supported Saddam Hussein and his brave fight against the Iranians. Lets see who else.. Pol Pot, Franco, Marcos, Papa Doc, Idi Amin, Batista, SIR Hassanal Bolkiah, PW Botha… the list goes on and on. What of it? My point is the U.S. govt has a long track record of not necessarily supporting democracy but the person(s) who suit us best in the postion we put them. Our govt, largely through the use of the CIA, has poked their fingers into a lot of foriegn pies, so there is nothing NEW here.
I'll be buying Honduran cigars to show my support. Rocky Patel or Punch…decisions, decisions…
It's funny how almost all Hondurans that have posted comments on the internet universally oppose Zelaya and hate his guts. Kinda like how almost every Venezuelan I know hates Chavez. Yet despite those peoples' extreme dislike for their corrupt leaders, our own Dictator in Chief has the audacity to stand by these tyrants and watch as true democracy gets smashed to pieces. Ever heard of checks and balances Barry? You must have missed that part of government class.
Obama's position should have everyone concerned, not just for the sake of democracy in Latin America, but for the sake of democracy here in our own country.
MikeO, this happens every time Congress gets together. It's the same thing with the draft. There is always someone who tries this or tries to impose the draft. They never get more than symbolic support.
But even if they did get it through Congress, it's not that simple to amend the Constitution. So while I agree that it must be watched, don't worry that this is actually going to happen.
Tha landscape continues to change, without fear of reprisal. With the Chavez Doctine, Iexpect to see more adverturesome actions throughout central and south america. Plus, it was nice of him to print up the ballots… el presidente for life? Honduras responded with a resounding screw you.
Let me say, that it makes me happy to hear that people do indeed watch what is going on in Congress. Thanks aharris! You do America proud!
Tha landscape continues to change, without fear of reprisal. With the Chavez Doctine, expect to see more adverturesome actions throughout central and south america. Plus, it was nice of him to print up the ballots… el presidente for life? Honduras responded with a resounding screw you.
With Comrade Obama's different reactions to the two situations, Iran and Honduras, how can anyone not know in some small way that he is just a stateist dictator-wannabe (liberal + socialist + communist = stateist).
Check out the parrot cartoon from June 30 –> http://www.ibdeditorials.com/Cartoons.aspx
I don't want to be Honduran!! That would mean living in a country where the military brutes control everything, the president is waken up at gun point and taken to a foreign country and his family has to take refuge in the american embassy, and where corruption and elitism present in all branches of government has created the greatest inequality in the Americas (except for Haiti). Upps! I forgot, I am actualy a Hondureño. I say bring back Zelaya, lets bring the country back to the XXI century, he would be replaced in January anyway.
Which state is Jose Serrano representing?
Actually the words and actions of our dear President himself in the matter is very disturbing…. the Hondurian Government did what they needed to do to uphold Rule of Law and a constitution their President was obviously violating… Yet, Obama is siding with the man that was trying to put himself into a Chavez like dictatorship instead of the side that is abiding by the law.
Well, I gather siding with a bunch or DICTATORS is not deemed to be meddling is it?
But, but, but… that makes TOO much sense….
I have an acquantance from college who was my dormmate who was/is here from Honduras on a student visa… He is definitely astonished that Obama is siding with Zelaya and the other Socialist Dictators…
I would not surprise me in the least if something like this ends up happening here…
It's all very good except for this my friend; "Yet never in any previous hardline coup by a ruthless military junta did I see tens of thousands of ordinary citizens swarming to the streets in support of it, even celebrating"…
That's a bit of a stretch and in fact many people cheered originally in Iran, Cuba, N Korea and now they're all eating eachother to survive, simple mob mentality.. Look at Pyongyang on Google Earth, not a single car on the street downtown because they probably ate them too.
Thanks for this summary. I have been trying to explain to people that I know what the situation in Honduras was and is. All they've gotten from the press is 'military coup' and condemnations from our president. Let's hope that democracy in Honduras continues to shine a light in Central and South America.
Peace.
http://www.revealworship.com
This whole situation makes me so angry I can hardly stand it.
I spent time in Honduras in the early 1980's ensuring the Honduran people would have a stable democratic government.
I was spit on, shot at and finally had to flee in the middle of the night when drug runners, supported by the local military – my “liaison partners” – put a hit on me.
Now, when a socialist dictator-wanna-be tries to overthrow the very government I helped establish and then MY OWN GOVERNMENT doesn’t bother to read the actual intel reports about the situation but instead sides with the vocal socialist Presidents (for Life) of other corrupt Latin American states, I don’t know whether to scream, cry or do something else.
I didn’t vote for the US Clown in Chief, but everyone I know who did is now very sorry – they recognize a socialist dictator-wanna-be no matter the capital he brays from.
Tomas-
My wife just returned on Saturday from a trip to Honduras.
The fact that you have access to the internet means one of two things: either you're a member in good standing of the "corrupt elitist" ruling caste, or you no longer live there.
I am deeply confused by your words.
Namely what does 'h**' mean?
Is there a new three letter profane word beginning with the letter h I'm missing out on using rather spuriously?
So now a democratically elected president is a "dictator" because you don't like his politics? Here in a nutshell is the right's devotion to "democracy" — democracy is when people vote the way I like.
Mr. Simpson-
My wife has just returned from a medical missions trip to Honduras. She lived amongst the poorest of the poor and just flew out this past Saturday. She can verify from first hand observation and from talking with the Honduran people that the facts of this case are exactly as you have outlined them.
Ovrethrow? By putting what would be a non-binding referendum on the ballot and letting the Honduran people vote? But when the army rises up and exiles the democratically elected president, that's somehow a great blow for democracy?
If I were a Honduran citizen, I'd spit on anyone who felt this way about my country, too.
I ask when it was gonna happen here yesterday and it got deleted very quick.
It was just a question,I did not insist it happen.
I hope Barack sleeps in pajamas, with a suit nearby.
Messiah's sleep ?
Actually I think we have one in DC.
I agree that BO is a disaster internationally. I simply am tired ofthe "we are all …."crap.
excuse me, but Hillary has never even had enough integrity to resign from her embarrassment of a marriage, let alone from the most visible, most powerful political position she's ever held. don't waste too much time hoping for some sort of latent occurrence of that virtue on her part…
He will do it here. He just got done kissing Putin the dictator ass. Why is anyone surprised about Honduras?
Typo. sorry.
Stick it.
I am with you and I am tired of it. We are supposed to help democracy flourish all over the world while ours goes down in flames.
I still don't know or care where Honduras is.
Maybe I should have said, "I hope he floats in a meditative state in pajamas"?
NY. Surprise! Surprise!
Ever get the feeling that with Bush gone, the children have taken over the runnning of gov't (not that Bush was so great – the man couldn't articulate). It took getting Obama to discover how good Bush was in comparison to this creep. How is it possible to justify the US position on Honduras?
Darn. Cause it's always fun to learn new snarky words.
You know, if China or Russia sent some folks over here to "help" us have a stable democratic government, I just might spit on those people, too.
I'm just saying.
Where does this arrogant mindset come from that we, as Americans, are entitled to dictate what form of government other nations are to have? It's certainly nothing our Founders ever advocated. In fact, they suggested the exact OPPOSITE.
As far as I can tell, what happened in Honduras is exactly what should have happened. But at the end of the day, it's still none of our business.
I have a fairly lengthy comment string over on another thread expressing my concerns about the apparent editorial/censorship policy of this website.
Honestly, I can't tell whether this is bad human decisionmaking or just a bad automatic filter.
I have a joke about human cannibalism that's still up (last I checked), but you can't call Obama's dad a "player".
It would be helpful to all of us to know what the boudaries are.
I have a fairly lengthy comment string over on another thread expressing my concerns about the apparent editorial/censorship policy of this website.
Honestly, I can't tell whether this is bad human decisionmaking or just a bad automatic filter.
I have a joke about human cannibalism that's still up (last I checked), but you can't call Obama's dad a "player".
It would be helpful to all of us to know what the boundaries are.
My perception is that this is a pain in the neck issue for America. Why?
1) Chavez is our enemy. We'd like to see peaceful and democratic regime change in Venezuela.
2) Zelaya is Chavez's new buddy. oh great. how is this happening?
3) However, there is an anti-Chavez ruling elite in Honduras. They've become extremely concerned about (2). And thus the coup.
4) As American's we support the democratic process. But as Bush saw in the Middle East, democracy doesn't always go the way we want. Even Chavez was elected and retains popularity with the bottom rung multitude in Venezuela. The question is: HOW do the PEOPLE of Honduras really feel?! I understand from this article how the author wants to see it. but I've heard otherwise too. The general claiming this is a "constitutional coup" and will relinquish reigns after a November election… well that sounds good. But then, what if Zelaya wins?!
Obama's next book: :"The Audacity of Appeasement".
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. What is wrong with that, have we lost our balls? That sums up our past support for Hussein against Iran. What better that to have two idiots who hate America destroy each other? Regarding Batista, Franco, by the way you forgot to mention Somoza and the military governments in Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras in the 70's. Those guys were bad but what was the alternative? Communism? Oh yeah that is much better! Hey dumbass, I had friends and their parrents killed by the communist, I take this crap very personally. I hope the CIA keep poking their fingers in all kinds of pies, rather that this idiot BHO (Jimmy Carter the 2nd) welcoming commies to our hemisphere with open arms. I hope the US soon gets a president with balls like GWB to kick Islamic Terrorist and Communist ass and we will be there to help.
I get the feeling we've simply traded one set of idiots for another.
I'm pretty sure it would be just the bottoms.
In Chris Matthews' dreams…
brucelee: "We are supposed to help democracy flourish all over the world while ours goes down in flames. "
The one problem with that is Obama holds the flame thrower.
I did hear that she was pressuring Obama to take a harder stance on Iran. It takes a really special sort of individual to make Hillary Clinton look like she has integrity by comparison.
Spoken (actually written) like someone who's clearly never read a word of what our Founders advocated with regard to foreign policy.
Q: "should we be afraid he is meeting with Vladimir Putin today? "
A: Yes. Oh, yes. Oh, lord, yes.
Are you saying that he may not be at the ready at 3 o' clock in the morning??? I know the secretary of state would be (Hillary) lol….
He's pretty much already groveled and apologized because Reagan demanded that Russia "tear down this wall," and ready to kiss Putin’s ring.
Hey Catracho, no seas huevon! Are you aware that it was Zelaya's moves and manouvers that were unconstitutional? He doesn't deserve to finish his term, he was committing illegal acts. Unless you are a communist/populist or just plain stupid you would want this jerk back. It's ignorance like yours that puts guys like Castro, Morales, Ortega, Chavez and Obama in power.
Law Enforcement enables this.
[...] Big Hollywood readers. Please note I am not Honduran and am based in Princeton NJ, but you can read all my posts [...]
Well Bruce, find out where it is and soon enough, the fire in your neighbors house ignored can set your own house on fire……..
It will happen here as soon as they FIND THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE! When they do, they will throw this Foreign-born America-hating communist sleeper agent back to Kenya.
Ron Reale
realetybytes@yahoo.com
realetybytes.townhall.com
Yeah, but to be fair, that is what the Right was saying of Clinton when he was in office too… However, times are much different now than the 90's and we have a different kind of President than we have had before…
Thanks for posting this. Only you and the WSJ seem to be on to this story. I have flown into Tegucigalpa airport — and that whole routine of Zelaya "trying" to land felt like a staged event for CNN, staged to make Zelaya look like a man of the people, a kind of Chavez-lite. (I don't think that Zelaya is as bad as Chavez, by the way, but he could turn out to be eventually.) You don't fly round and round TGU while communicating with CNN instead of the airport controllers — if you're serious about landing there safely (I'm not a pilot, I just happen to know that airport.) This situation is being very badly reported — people read "military coup" and that's all they need to jump to conclusions and side with Chavez/Obama.
I'd be curious to know what is happening in San Pedro Sula, Honduras' second largest, middle-class, city — I can't imagine the people living there supporting Zelaya and his referendum, unless they are by now completely brainwashed.
don't worry
Thank you! However, worry is not part of my make up. Nor is hate. Neither is worth the time.
Our founders did in believe staying out of matters that weren't in the national interest. But when Barbary pirates were attacking our ships and enslaving our people, Jefferson sent the Marines across an ocean that was bigger, logistically, than the entire world today to defeat them.
The rapidity of communication and transportation means that Tehran is closer to Washington D.C. in travel time today, than Philadelphia was from Boston in colonial times. Logistically, this means that every potentially violent anti-American regime is tactically sitting on our doorstep for purposes of terrorism and propaganda and even all-out war in the case of ICBMs, which are in danger of falling into increasingly dangerous regimes.
As for what entitles us, it's the same thing that entitled Alexander the Great, the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Ottomans, the Chinese, the Spanish, the Russians, the British, and so on and so on: you either impose your will on the world, or the world will impose its will on you.
Do you actually believe that most people in Iran want the Mullahs? That Iraqis wanted Hussein, that Afghanistan wanted the Taliban? Oh, yes, I hear people reply, these people should change their own governments. You know, we wouldn't even have been able to fight off the British during the revolution if it weren't for French help. Of course, they were helping us out of their own self-interested. So what?
Most of the client states of the British Empire — the U.S., Canada, Austria, New Zealand, India, Bermuda, etc., are far better places for having been nurtured by that empire.
Germany, Japan, Italy and South Korea are far, far better places thanks to the U.S. "nation-building" exercises there. We conquered them, and we made them free and prosperous nations. The lands subjugated by Nazi Germany are far better off because we stepped in and fought side-by-side with them behalf rather than taking a defensive stance, seeing "how things turned out" in Europe and making a separate peace with the victor.
The misery of North Korea survives because we didn't have the will to resume the fight at the time.
Meanwhile, because we cut and ran in Vietnam, millions died there and in Cambodia. The hordes of desperate refugee "boat people" fleeing in anything that would half-way float, begging some nation to take them in, they were the result of our weakness of will.
We're entitled because we can, because we can order the world in our image, or eventually allow the world to order us in its image. And the images I see in the world: Putin, Castro, Chavez, the Mullahs, the Taliban, the Chinese — those are not images I like. If you think they will just leave us alone and let us continue to be free and prosperous while they expand their influence, you are at best misguided. They will bring us to our knees if they can. They will put us in their power, if they can. They will order us in their image, if we let them.
"Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils." — General John Stark, 1809
Don't hold your breath waiting
Cause the rules don't apply to dems
Have you been living in a cave or what?
Go back to watching reality TV and building a grief memorial for Jacko. This "politics" stuff is too complicated for you.
wr1 & other grumps –
So, if there is a "democratically elected" fella that starts trying to subvert the written and ratified Constitution, is he still an appropriate leader? and if that ratified Constitution has a process by which that fella may be removed from his "democratically elected" position, how is that suddenly un-democratic? And when scrutinized, this fella is discovered to be bedding down with other fellas who had been "democratically elected" and then made themselves un-unelectable, this goes to intent and furthers strengthens the case of those who used the ratified Constitution's process to remove him – doesn't it? I’m trying to see the logic of the other side – and (surprise) it’s not there!
(continued)
don't the properly "elected" folks generally start making moves to make them un-unelectable when the prevailing winds start shifting against them? I'm sure that's in the rulebook, right? So maybe this fella was looking forward to a losing election (vox populi) and decided he “knew better” than that ignorant rabble that so benignly “democratically elected” him? Think about it – I promise, you’re head will not actually explode.
And – we’re not asking for men or munitions – like with Iran – just a statement that the USA still tries to support those countries trying to live by the rule of law. trying to keep the people’s voice heard within their governments… Don’t we want try to find actual friends to support instead of having to settle for enemies of our enemies??
Ok – done for now…
And another thing – instead of BH encouraging multiple posts on the same rant, wouldn't just allowing longer ones at a time make more sense?????????
(deep breath – sigh)
possibly Obama's most defining- and scary moment- so far…
You can forgive one for thinking that the Current Administration seems quite content with dictators of all stripes.
The nascent freedom movement in Iran ignored but a under the radar leftist attempt to steal Honduran democracy is met with indignation and demands. It is our belief that the Left is trying to steamroll democratic freedoms everywhere to establish their one world governance.
And nary a black helicopter in sight…
For myself, and anyone else who bothered to pay attention to the actual words spoken by this man during the campaign, "suprise" isn't really the right word. It's further confirmation of what we knew to be his true political bent. You could say we're surprised by how much he's revealed of himself so quickly, but it's not surprise at the direction he's chosen to lean.
Hillary, that bastion of diplomacy has called on el presidente de Costa Rica to begin talks. No thanks… maybe she can negotiate an end to the papaya rebellion. The carnage is ugly
[...] from: Today, We Are All Hondurans This entry is filed under America – Blogs, Big Hollywood. You can follow any responses to this [...]
Actually I don't watch reality TV and I am not watching MJ's service. Not interested. Now, back to the cognitive science stuff.
Thanks for playing though. I am sure that you are willing to run right off and fight for the liberation of Honduras, wherever that is. In the end, talk IS cheap.
Aw shucks… Obama has to condemn legal opposition to a tyrant. He's afraid Americans might get ideas and do it to him!
Nice article.
There is a petition by Hondurans to President Obama in support of the interim regime:
http://Petitiononline.com/honduras/petition.html
http://www.ferdsblog.wordpress.com
Who the H*ll Cares? This is both a tragic Ironic World Event and a political Goldmine for Conservatives everywhere!
Shut your trap!
worry? no. But such things do give us opportunities to put on record the fools who wish to push them.
I dont think it's the ring he will be kissing…
I would rather my government do something and possibly have it go wrong, than to do nothing in hopes that things may go right. It is the "Good Samaritan Law", you can pull a crash victim out of a burning car aggrevating a severe neck/back injury leaving them paralyzed for life. Or you can just stand there and watch them burn to death.
I think it was Edmund Burke who once said " The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". I'll bet if we polled the Iranians right now we would find that they wished we had medelled.
your wife is truly a brave soul!
"I for one stand with Honduran people."
DITTO!!!!!!
you obviously have no idea what the entire situation is then do you WR? Or do you just blindly trust the alphabet soup pundits?
And iin case you hadn't noticed…. the pictures that have come out have shown that the citizens have definitely not been support of Zelaya's actions… so the people have spoken, but you don't care apparently?
Cloud, you were doing fine until you got to the line
We're entitled because we can, because we can order the world in our image, or eventually allow the world to order us in its image
Just because you can do something doesn't necessarily mean you should… You were on the right track up until that point, although I see where you were going, but that line kind of went a little too far.
Lib.. you're leaving off a couple of facts.. .look at the regimes that were in question before most of those you listed… (although my history on Idi Amin is a little more lax than some others.)…
the Papa Doc (just picking one off the top of my head I probably can remember most about from memory) for example was one where the regime before PD.. was HORRENDOUS to the Haitian people.. unfortunately, the powers-that-be were completely bamboozled by what they thought Papa Doc was going to do for the two countries.
We're not ALL Hondurans! http://goldenstate2009.blogspot.com/2009/07/hilla...
Maybe they should call it the Organization of Soviet Socialist American States? 'What's next? I'm waiting to hear about the big plan, to replace the faces on Mt. Rushmore with Obama, Castro, Chavez, Ortega and Zelaya.
It's in Central America. Major exports are coffee, cigars, and Hondurans.
If Chavez is our enemy, why is there a picture of Obama giving him the "dap"?
Easy, eric! It's a symbolic figure of speech, like 'Live Free or Die.' It is a calling to all freedom-loving souls everywhere to stand up and be heard. It goes without saying during the Revolution that many preferred the yoke of the British, as many in today's press and government prefer the yokes of Zelaya, Castro, Ortega and Chavez, for political expediency or just plain Communist sympathies.
I did say our president didn't speak for us, right
What he said. Although yellow does seem to be the color staining Obama's trousers whenever he's around Chavez
Cal, That's my first link way up top where I said, "ya, I know." Great minds think alike
You mean like, bring it back to XXI Century Iran or Venezuela? I don't see that as an improvement, Tomas.
I used such stark language on purpose, because I don't want us to be kidding ourselves.
There are no rules in international relations except that he who has the power makes the rules. Do you think our opponents are agonizing over the delicate moral questions we are? Do the Mullahs stay up and night and wonder "Should we really be saying 'Death to Israel' and funding international terrorism? Isn't it wrong for us to meddle in the affairs of those descendants of pigs and monkeys?" Does Putin think "Gosh, a repressive totalitarian regime is just what we like here in Russia, but it would be wrong for us to export that model to the world!" Does Chavez think "It's none of my business how other Central and South American nations order their affairs. Maybe my aggressive peddling of my politics in other nations in the regions and my attempts to subvert the Colombian government are wrong!"
I think the U.S. concept of 'empire' is vindicated by its fruits. What do we have to show for our imperialism? Every state west of the original 13. Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico. The free and independent nations of Germany, Italy, Japan, South Korea and hopefully soon-to be Iraq. The free and independent allies that have benefited from our aid.
We have no more to be embarrassed about the fruits of our imperial actions than do the British, less maybe. To counter another commenter, the British empire didn't fall because it overreached. It fell because it lost the will to empire. The British turned in upon themselves. But the nations that have spawned even from the ruins of that empire are generally something to be proud of. They are the beacons of hope in this world. The other poster is right, all empires fall. That doesn't mean that they're not worthy of building in the first place. What is left afterward is not necessarily bad. And since the U.S. has not in the 20th or 21st centuries evinced an interest in national expansionism, if all we keep doing is taking in dysfunctional states like postwar Germany, Japan, Italy and South Korea and plopping out admirably free nations, I don't see any reason to avoid it.
What sort of justification besides "because we can" would make you feel good about the effort? There's not some moral law book handed down by God or nature that orders the rules of international relations. Most of the world's relations have very little to say about international affairs and the one that does (Islam) is aggressively expansionist. The advocates of the related political philosophies of socialism, communism and fascism that are still being pushed aggressively in much of the developing world have no compunctions about "meddling" to export their beliefs. The Chinese, the Iranians, the Russians, Chavez and his bloc of like-minded fascists in South America — none of these people are interested in playing by our rules. They are only interested in our rules when they can use them against us. In fact, we are the only ones of the international players with the capability to act who seem to be able to divine a moral problem with meddling with other nations.
By all means, if it's not in our interest, don't act, but as long as what we are doing on a human level — freeing people from tyrants, fighting terrorists, defending our interests — is defensible, it is misguided to worry about the sovereign "rights" of nations that wish our destruction.
Why should we oppose Iran? Because we can … and because it's in our interest. Why should we, on the other hand, respect British sovereignty and their rule of law? Because it is in our interest to do so — they are not our enemy. See? Blanket respect for the sovereignty of a nation simply because of the fact that it is a nation is ridiculous. If the nation is our enemy, we're justified in doing what we need to eliminate the threat. Fascist regimes in Russia, Iran and South America are a long-term danger to U.S. interests. We certainly don't have to go to war with them, but we don't have to show them false respect. I'd rather an evil regime feared us than liked us.
Yes, in the highest sense "can" is not enough, it also should be something you "should" do — but the "should" is something that we can only determine unilaterally in terms of American beliefs and American self-interest. We can't be restrained by a false belief in an international order and international laws that exist only to cripple ourselves and provide cover for our enemies.
"Dap"? sorry not familiar with your lingo.
in any case, yes, Obama was caught being friendly with the guy. Remember, tho, we elected Obama so we could reach out to those with whom we disagree. This should draw a sharp contrast to the 8 years of "cowboy diplomacy" that we had prior.
CD, I'm going to plate this entry in gold and post it above my computer, The most well thought-out entry you've ever posted here. What happened? You run out of drugs, LOL!
Just kidding. Would like to see a lot more of this kind of well-reasoned woolgathering from you. Bravo!
I always like to muse that what Bush was to English and Speech, Obama is to Math and Economics. Maybe we'll see this one on future S.A.T. tests.
Here's my solution –
BUY HONDURAN!
Thanks for the great examination of this.
It would not surprise me in the least if he tried this. All Obamugabe needs is some kind of real or contrived national emergency, and he would suspend the elections; declare martial law perhaps. If this does not happen, but the election results are close, you can believe this man will not go away quietly into the night. We need to be prepared for a very troubling time in 2012 in any case- count on it.
oy vey. You people are trying to ruin my rep here. I swear I'm not really all that reformed. At least, all I will admit to is that I'm trying to get a certain balance in order to:
* not get censored
* I like to fool people into thinking they like me before I smack them upside the head with how things really are.
"Chavez is hugely unpopular in Venezuela and can only win with rigged elections."
that depends on who you talk to. I asked a Venezuelan co-work about this and while he hated Chavez he also pretty much said that "the rich elite of Venezuela got what they deserved" by seeing him elected, meaning that while he's passionately hated by people with money… in terms of #s of votes, he's still legit. Weren't there UN validators on their last election??! Look, I don't like the guy, I'm just saying people THERE do.
By contrast, if as you say, Zelaya is really so unpopular, then Honduras will be safely back in strong arms of capitalist powers by the next election… problems solved.
"Chavez is hugely unpopular in Venezuela and can only win with rigged elections."
that depends on who you talk to. I asked a Venezuelan co-worker about this and while he hated Chavez he also pretty much said that "the rich elite of Venezuela got what they deserved" by seeing him elected, meaning that while he's passionately hated by people with money… in terms of #s of votes, he's still legit. Weren't there UN validators on their last election??! Look, I don't like the guy, I'm just saying people THERE do.
By contrast, if as you say, Zelaya is really so unpopular, then Honduras will be safely back in strong arms of capitalist powers by the next election… problems solved.
"And nary a black helicopter in sight…" phhht. Like when has there EVER been a black helicopter in sight? People please.
Couerl, I think there's a differentiation here between a popular revolution and a military coup by a power-seizing junta overthrowing a democratic government. Hell, even the Russian Revolution was very popular at the time! But what I'm referring to is more like the situations in Thailand and Myanmar. Nobody cheered those.
the UN is not necessarily a good indicator of election fraud; Chavez' bullies intimidated voters all over, and his once strong popularity amongst the rural folk has waned because of poor delivery of services… yes he does have support but one guesses (best we can do) to be in the 40's, a plurality to be sure but not a majority.
Zelaya wants to change the constitution without the legal standing to do so, and would have much help from Chavez next year. The Hondurans know this, and will stand firm. It is not as much a 'capitalist' reform as just wanting to avoid the Batchelets and DaSilva's- and the Chavez'- from kidnapping their democracy.
Oh come on! If you're gonna bring uncomfortable facts into this, people are gonna get mad at you.
CD, You know if you smack me, I'll smack back. But you really amazed me today. Regardless of what more you say in this post, the gold star on the forehead stays. Show it off to your liberal friends, LOL!
I realize you probably aren't a fan of the UN, but who else can purport to monitor elections?
I use the term capitalist since that comes to mind as the term to mean "anti-communist", since Chavez is a communist, isn't he?
anyway, thanks for the informative post.
I agree — I just wanted to keep it clean.
Didn't you ever see Blue Thunder, CD? Based on a true story
a) I was 8 so whatever you are refering to was over my young head. So is that like, were all of the black helicopter stuff comes from?
b) Back then I was more of an AirWolf fan anyway.
You'd think the Simpsons would have taught us never to elect a man wearing a sash.
Sure, I grant you and recognize the distinction and I'm not trying to be a nit-picky old cuss, but the nutters love to capitalize on nit-picky and a seemingly harmless sentence like that can be taken to task in an otherwise near perfect article. I'm sick and tired of the nut jobs capitalizing on fragments and turning them around and today it's more important than ever to keep the skills razor sharp.
Okay, off my soapbox and thanks for the responce and keep up the great writing.
StevenW and it's a pleasure.
it's a tough gig, no doubt. The UN just isn't very good at anything, as our experiences show.
The Peanut lends a hand but they humor him. No, a strong free media is the key- and you'll notice Chavez has gotten rid of most of them. We just mentioned the 'capitalist' comment because Honduras is far more concerned with preserving their democratic freedoms- they see themselves much like Costa Rica- then any economic ramifications.
And you're quite welcome…
Aw man, I love the Wayback Machine!
Simply an inconvenient fact. Glorious leader does not dwell in such prattle. For the One must smite truth and factual observation to become the true ruler of all that he can usurp, The Kenyan will lead us forever! All hail!!
Hard to argue geopolitics with retards.
Okay, maatkare, how about this? We Are The World, We Are The Children, LOL! I think that about covers it. But I don't see why we can't speak out against ALL of it. Multi-trashing? I can defend Honduras and slam the US government at the same time. Actually, I thought I just did here
It's getting more possible every day. Sad but, there will come a point when it may be the only action available. Imagine that. Constitutional action to overthrow a "constitutional law professor". Oh, but wait……I'm a racist……
I'm throwing this in with the gold star, CD. Enjoy! And be afraid. Be VERY afraid, LOL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd3lDhyM21M
Do you people understand what it is that you are supporting? There is no evidence that Zelaya was intending to use this process to achieve another presidential term. None. The non-binding poll was meant to sound out support for a referendum on possible constitutional changes. That was it. If the notion of such a poll was so unpopular then it would have been either soundly defeated or had such a low turn-out to render it meaningless. So why remove the president at gunpoint? What kind of democracy equates non-binding polls with treason? You are lending support to the following actions which seem at face value inconsistent with democratic principles: removal at gunpoint and forced exile of a democratically elected leader; dusk to dawn curfew enforced by the army; closure of media outlets; curtailment of civil rights of the population.
Are you sure he would be replaced in January? Chavez (Yes I do know that he is the President of Venezuela) seemed to be pretty damn successful in changing the laws so he can stay President… so whose to say that Zelaya won't do it too? A President that can change the rules to suit his needs and wants is called a dictator…
wr1-
You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
My wife was down there during this mess. As to "democratically elected", the Honduran citizens laugh about that.
As does Hugo Chavez.
You know, if China or Russia sent some folks over here to "help" us have a stable democratic government, I just might spit on those people, too.
I'm just saying.
Where does this arrogant mindset come from that we, by virtue of being American, are entitled to dictate what form of government other nations are to have? It's certainly nothing our Founders ever advocated. In fact, they suggested the precise OPPOSITE.
As far as I can tell, what happened in Honduras is exactly what should have happened. But at the end of the day, it's still none of our business.
I have a friend that is a Honduran citizen here on a Student Visa (so he still has family there) that also says what is in this article is what has happened/is happening… I tend to trust people that I know over the media…
Wasn't one of the leftist’s accusations that President Bush would declare some sort of emergency and suspend the 2008 election so he could have four more years in office?
I suspect that The Messiah, who studied constitutional law, did so just to find the loop holes. LOOK OUT!
CHANGE — be careful of what you wish for, you might just get it.
I want my country back.
So, Jeffca, if President Bush tried to do an end-around with the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution against the orders of the Supreme Court, Congress, the Attorney General and even the Republican Party, and ordered the military to carry out his distribution of illegal ballots for a referendum on a third term, that would all be okay with you? No problemo?
Harumph, I say!! Harumph! Harumph!!
Ees wun thin to be elected presidente, ees 'nuther to steal the country in broad daylight, no? Eet work for me, amigo!
Doo not leesen to any of this peoples. I weesh I had a way of getteeng some of the peoples on thees blog into my oil deestribution list, jus like the rest of the OAS (who now doo my beeding, ja ja ja)! Eet ees not good for spreading la revolucion!
Its corny to even say this, but damn, I am proud to be an American!
"We're entitled because we can."
That pretty much sums up the belief of every empire throughout history. Every tyrant throughout history. Hitler believed that very sentiment. The thing about empires, though, is this: they never last. The Romans, the Brits, the Ottomans, the Persians–they all fell for a very good reason. They overreached. They wanted to control the world, something which is impossible and always serves to bankrupt a nation while creating enemies everywhere.
You want an empire, but at least you're up front about it. You want an empire because, according to your post, you see something to be afraid of everywhere you turn. I prefer a republic myself, and so did the Founders.
When the "democratically elected" president deliberately subverts his nation's constitution to get his way, the term "dictator" does seem to apply rather nicely.
Nice projection with your definition of democracy, though.
I didn't hear a "Harumph" from that guy…
agreed-
Couldn't believe it was Mr CogDis… he is basically incorrect but thoughtfully so- Chavez is hugely unpopular in Venezuela and can only win with rigged elections. Zelaya is a Chavez wannabe and would not win; his approval is in the low 20's and only Chavez' interference (the leftist rabble protesting are mostly Chavez' imported thugs) is making any noise. The Hondurans know what is happening and what is at stake.
The big myth is that Obama doesn't want Zelaya as a lifetime socialist leader…
I don't know which is scariest: your apathy toward citizens of a fellow democracy, Obama and Hillary joining hands with the communists to effect a socialist/communist change, or the way in which Reuters, the Washington Post, and every other main paper (except for the Wall St. Journal op piece) deliberately lied for the first 3 days of coverage. After that the "balanced" reporting stuck in a few alleged facts about the unconstitutional behavior of Zelaya near the end of the article – you know the part most short attention span liberals never reach.
yeah, you're right, k8blujay. I thought I heard that somewhere. But then I'm only half senile — I've still got a long way to go before I turn liberal — a really long, long way to go.
Oy, as well…
No one here likes the 'site administrator' smackdown any more than you- it is their site- and don't worry too much about being liked. One suspects you'd lose your street cred and we can't have that, now- can we?
Hey! Retard…..yeah you. Here's the deal that even a brain dead, lefty, short bus rider like you can understand. The Supreme Court of Honduras, the CONGRESS of Honduras….that would be the ELECTED Congress of Honduras…..are you following?…….determined that this was a completely unconstitutional act and, BTW, supported by what appears a great majority of the Honduran populace said, no. The Honduran Military was directed, by legal authority, to boot your buddy out of the country. Is that clear to you or does a country's Constitution mean anything?
Full Disclosure: I have spent time in Honduras….the jungles, not the towns. Good people. They operate by the principle of "leave me alone and I will leave you alone". nuff said.
I tried using humor once at this site. If it's not directed towards a liberal screwball, you get negative thumbs. I thought your bit here was pretty funny stuff. Thanks.
Do you consider the PaleoCon and Libertarian arguement retarded? I don't. Neither do I think it works in the day of air travel and internet. The world's gotten too small to hide in "fortress America". Our economy has a great deal at stake in how smooth the world's seas and how safe the world's nations are. As much as we want to not get involved, we have too many irons in the global fire to stand around with our thumbs up our butts.
Isn't IBD's editorial page the best thing going in print media? It's even better than WSJ…..
You forget, we have guns! Wait, all we have are handguns and hunting weapons, for they've made it illegal to purchase something that would actually be usefull to a modern army……
I agree entirely with you. I know it's in our best interests(not to mention others) to have a world full of free peoples with classical liberal economies. How to bring that to pass is the sticky wicket. When we can support free people we should! Problems occur when our own peeps elect a clown who doesn't agree with my second sentence.
You're old!
I'll go back to humming the AirWolf theme song now….
Apparently, the paint scheme on many U.S. military helicopters, though actually green, LOOKS black under some circumstances.
Another aside: I've seen the term "black helicopters" used as either sarcasm or as a slam against an opponent by saying said opponent believed in them far more often than I've seen anyone actually expressing a belief in them… and that's only because I used to read Usenet a long time ago.
"Citizens of a fellow democracy"
C'mon, give me a break. Is the USA the democracy watchdog of the world. What do you want to do, send in troops. If you want the POTUS to strut and comdemn, fine with me. Spend a dollar or a life in Honduras. No thanks.
The resources and attention of US citizens should be on the loss of democracy right here in the US. It is happening quite quickly under this Marxist. I don't want any diversions of our attention. We need to get rid of Obama in 3 yrs and prattling on about Honduras is a waste of time IMHO.
understandable, but when dealing with the likes of him, one comes away feeling dirty, no matter what.
You're right. Unless we are actively involved in fighting, we should not show our support.
That explains your stance on the troops.
Indeed. IMHO, the US should only commit resources and troops when we are convinced that we MUST act and we are commited to finishing the job.
IMO, this should be very infrequently. I don't think we are the moral compass or the police force for the world.
I thought that is why we had the F'n UN around.
What is going on. I agree with you.
Whoa baby.
Remember JTS, "It's not fascism when (they) do it!"
No, Bruce, we have standing armies BECAUSE of the UN. Their moral compass is broken. In fact, they don't even have a compass! Bangup job the UN did stopping all those genocides, huh?
BTW thanks for telling one of my detractors to stick it. You're all right. Loved you in ENTER THE DRAGON, too
Thanks I am most proud of that movie.
BTW-I was just kidding on the UN thing. Worthless pieces of crap.
"The UN just isn't very good at anything, as our experiences show."
Maybe so. But here's a wild concept for all of you UN-loathers out there.
1) The US was instrumental – if not the prime contributor – to the creation of the UN.
2) The US is the #1 super power. Of any nation on the planet, we have the most influence, power and control to enable or disable the effectiveness of the UN.
if the UN is not all that we'd like it to be, then it behoves us to embrace the responsibility to lead the rest of the world nations in making the UN something we like and best suits our needs for what we need out of a UN.
What I'm advocating is multi-lateralism 101. Why? Well because ONLY a family-of-nations can ever reasonably purport to claim the authority that it takes to monitor elections.
The UN isn't doing a good enough job for us? Well then, what can WE do to get the UN shaped up? That's the only way to look at this problem that ISN'T walking backward toward some kind of new barbaric age.
"The UN just isn't very good at anything, as our experiences show."
Maybe so. But here's a wild concept for all of you UN-loathers out there.
1) The US was instrumental – if not the prime contributor – to the creation of the UN.
2) The US is the #1 super power. Of any nation on the planet, we have the most influence, power and control to enable or disable the effectiveness of the UN.
if the UN is not all that we'd like it to be, then it behooves us to embrace the responsibility to lead the rest of the world nations in making the UN something we like and best suits our needs for what we need out of a UN.
What I'm advocating is multi-lateralism 101. Why? Well because ONLY a family-of-nations can ever reasonably purport to claim the authority that it takes to monitor elections.
The UN isn't doing a good enough job for us? Well then, what can WE do to get the UN shaped up? That's the only way to look at this problem that ISN'T walking backward toward some kind of new barbaric age.
so I've been updated from my information source (NPR!! AM is for suckas.)
What do people here think about this formulation:
* If Obama took a hard-line in support of the coup, and against Zelaya / Chavez, then because Zelaya was democratically elected, Obama would give Chavez rhetorical fuel for Chavez to claim to be the REAL upholder of democratic values in Central/South America.
* Because Obama is not doing that… because Obama is getting the US involve, but not stridently on one side or another… he's not handling Chavez that device.
(Nevermind all you conspiracy nuts that by default assume that Chavez and Obama are but buddies.)
… I think and hope that Obama can help the Hondurans military leaders achieve a soft-landing from all this that leads to: NOT a reclaiming of the throne by Zelaya / but instead an election.
CONTINUED:
At the end of tho: If there is an election, and the election (fair or not) goes to Zelaya… WHAT THEN?!
America uber alles?! Sorry but we can't be perceived as a thuggish super power in our backyard. Not after our high and mighty rhetoric against Russia regarding Georgia. If there's an election in Honduras that re-seats Zelaya… then Honduras situation will echo Iran's and our policy should do likewise.
oddly enough, we are in total agreement with you…
Although we have disdain for the UN it is not without useful function. Yes, it came from the ashes of Wilson's League of Nations. Yes, too, it is a overstuffed debate society peopled by corrupt bureaucrats. Still, if it didn't exist we would have to invent it anyway… we don't 'loathe' it- but it does need to become more responsible and useful and not merely a place where tinpot dictators worldwide rail at the US and Israel. That is getting tiresome. However, your points are well taken and it would be nice if reasonable people could fashion a better overall system.
We'll just have to see…
great great great. You are actually establishing some respect from me.
but I'm wary because I still perceive a very foul sentiment coming from the right that is hostile to the UN and rooted in paranoia and religion.
But never mind that- to your points in your last post… what did Negroponte, or especially the hostile Bolton do to help solve these admitted problems with the UN?
actually Bolton did a good job of the 'good cop bad cop' thing, with Condi the good guy; he got real progress on Darfur with the unlikely teaming of him and George Clooney (!) and basically gave everyone there a shot across the bow…
Negroponte is a career di[plomat who is actually quite well respected- and has friends on both sides of the ideological divide. But the problems there are deep seated- institutional if you will- and Annan was a disaster, crooked to boot.
It's in real need of reform. How to bring that about? Good question. Need to think on that for awhile…
Calm down sizzle chest. I wasn't making a point that we should support communism. My point was just what I said. That our govt (not the people there is a difference) will support whomever they see fit at the time. It is not like we don't know that we are dealing with the lesser of two evils. Often times they back the guy that turns out to be, at least seemingly, a bad guy that is at odds with our American ideals. But the alternative may be worse. So again this is not new policy invented by the Obama admin.
Thats fine. All I'm saying is stop acting surprised when our govt backs a guy that people don't like. We cannot control what every administration does or whom they support so with that in mind don't be surprised when the good Samaritan pulls a pedophile out of a burning car. There is nothing new about this was my simple point. BTW the good Samaritan law is compulsary in Italy. You can get in trouble for NOT doing anything. Should we adopt that philosophy with reguard to foriegn policy?
You forgot the include Obama's name on that list.
ER
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