What is Pornographic? What is Hip?
by Joseph C. PhillipsWhat exactly does “affordable” mean?
A very good friend of mine has lately taken me to task for my opposition to a single payer, universal medical coverage. She argues that she is one of those the president speaks of when describing Americans that do not have “affordable” health insurance. She has a pre-existing condition and coverage is expensive. When I point out that while the cost of her coverage may be high it is certainly affordable (in that she is managing to pay for it) she rejects the argument on the basis that the high cost eats into other equally important expenses. When pressed to define exactly how much an affordable health insurance plan would cost her answer sounds an awful lot like what some folks refer to as free. Like many Americans her ideal is that she should receive the most comprehensive coverage – care for illnesses minor and major — for little or nothing; health coverage is, after all, a right.

Former Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart wrote of hard-core pornography: “I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it.” The position that policy and law should not be based on reason, fact and/or moral certainty, but on the infallible conclusions of judges or political leaders was later rejected by Stewart as untenable; no surprise, then, that it has been adopted as a cornerstone of progressive politics.
It is the ambition of the left to establish a whole new set of rights – rights not found in nature or revealed by natures God. Rather they are the product of the anointed and all too ambiguous progressive vision.
In addition to affordable health coverage they passionately claim that all have the right to a decent home, a good education, and a useful job. It all sounds quite noble until one begins to inquire as to the specifics. What is the definition of a decent home? Affordable medical care? A good education? Like Stewart, progressives could never succeed in intelligibly defining the material embraced within such shorthand descriptions, but they no doubt know them when they see them.
Residents of California have an intimate knowledge of the progressive definition of “good schools.” According to the National Center for Education Statistics, California, once the home of the best public elementary and secondary schools in the country, now ranks near the bottom nationally in reading and math proficiency. The good news is that the state ranks first in average teachers salaries. The definition of “good” schools in California apparently means paying teachers to prepare 8th graders not to read and write but to put condoms on a banana with one hand. And as if to prove the maxim that new liberals have no shame the leftists in the state assembly continue to ask for ever increasing amounts of taxpayer dollars so that they might further improve the schools. Gay pride day anyone?
I am reminded of conversations I used to have with friends in college. We would sit around dreaming of our future lives and describe the lifestyles we aspired to. Lest we appear too materialistic we all agreed that we didn’t want to be rich; we just wanted to be comfortable. Yes we were naïve but we were earnest. Of course upon fleshing out exactly what each of us meant by “comfortable” we realized our comfortable lifestyles virtually demanded that we either become rich or come within an arms length.
And just like eager, post-adolescents progressive notions of what is affordable, of sufficient quality or decent are completely divorced from the reality of the cost- either in dollars, actual freedoms or both.
In California the cost of “good” schools is a full 30% of the states’ budget and according to the New York Times school children must make do with old textbooks. Open space laws, exotic mortgage instruments and rent control have made housing considerably less affordable and offended private property rights. And the cost of “affordable” (free) health care for all will be two trillion dollars in national debt, higher taxes, rationing of services, restrictions and/or taxes on personal freedoms (smoking, cheeseburgers etc.), and a host of other costs never considered by those seeking the comfort of righteousness.
Certainly there is nothing obscene about the desire to educate children, aid the poor or ensure that the sick receive care. But to devise laws and policy based on ambitious, ambiguous and often arbitrary descriptives is, well, downright pornographic.






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94 Comments
Well said!!!
Sheesh. rights are what cannot be taken from you, not what you want to take from everyone else.
Let's face it – in their opinion, the "best" health insurance is the one that's paid for entirely by someone else. Preferably conservatives.
I ditto what John said above: "Well Said!" I hope, one day, you will consider running for political office. You will have my vote!!!
Rights can not be taken from you? Tell that to the Iranian protesters on trial.
It has been said before and it bears repeating
If you want to know what the liberal state looks like look at California.
finances broken
common sense non existant
taxes sky high
rules and regulations overwhelming
no way out except to stop voting for fools in liberal cloths
As I see the issue, the problem is two fold, first very few people understand economics beyond the amount of money they have in their account and wallet. And second, progressive politicians and activists know this and count on it.
I read Dr. Thomas Sowell's book "Basic Economics: A Citizen's Guide to the Economy" and I can't recommend it enough.
So much of economics is counter intuitive. Raising minimum wage increases unemployment, rent control creates homelessness. The trade deficit is a meaningless statistic, it doesn't measure services traded over seas, which is a huge business in America.
The question, what to do about it? Far to many humans would rather hold tightly on to their misconceptions and miss perceptions than do boring work of educating themselves. That's a trademark of current leftists.
She has a pre-existing condition and coverage is expensive.
Do our liberal friends demand that, when the transmission of their automobile fails, they pay less than the cost of repair "because it's really expensive"? If socialized healthcare is so wonderful, why not apply it to all facets of life? Restaurants, automobiles, housing? Liberals want something for nothing…or, at least nothing from them. They are the ultimate lazy spendthrifts…they make Eddie in "Christmas Vacation" look like a welcome houseguest.
I already have single-payer health insurance. Me.
Fools despise wisdom and discipline.
The problem, Mr. Phillips, is that we don't like to argue with our liberal friends. We must tell them we, as conservatives, agree with their ideals, but propose a different way to that end.
If I may add a third prong, too many people have a distorted view of the role of government. Too many expect "government" to do something "for" them. And most of these view government as Washington. Giveaway programs are hailed as wonderfully "progressive". The recipients then have a vested interest in maintaining those programs. Other groups get to want to their piece of the action too. And they all engage in the fantasy that someone else is paying for it.
Yet again, Joseph, you cut to the heart of the crisis: there is no "right" to healthcare paid for by someone else.
The government or the courts cannot invent non-existent rights. The basis of American exceptionalism is the recognition by our founding fathers that rights come to us from "the Creator," and are not merely human constructs which can be shaped to convenience.
The "living, breathing Constitution" interpretation turns the court and the government into brokers who dispense "rights" to favored groups. If we allow this to occur, the lights will go out for freedom not just here in America, but around the world.
Agreed. But I think this comes under lack of education of economics. They don't understand where the money comes from, the damage that's done to individuals and the economy on whole, when its confiscated from productive individuals, and the long term damage from deficit spending and printing money.
All they see is a politician promising to make life a walk in the park for them.
Agreed. But I think this comes under lack of education of economics. They don't understand where the money comes from, the damage that's done to individuals and the economy on whole when its confiscated from productive individuals, and the long term damage from deficit spending and printing money.
All they see is a politician promising to make life a walk in the park for them.
Why not apply it to all facets of life? Obama is working on it.
You call debating with liberals arguing?
I call it trying to teach a pig to dance. Wastes your time and annoys the pig.
when you see the term "living wage" watch out – liberal socialists at *work*
LOL! you da man Ski!
There are no "rights" except those you are willing to fight and die for. All this talk of "human rights" and "affordable" this and that always means that somebody else is expected to carry the load.
There's a big difference between being educated in economics and swallowing a bunch of disproved lies by a rightwing hack. Study after study has proven that raising minimum wage does not increase unemployment at all, and yet every time a raise is proposed, the same old bought-and-paid-for hacks make the same disproven claims. If you choose to believe this liar, that's certainly your prerogative, but it's clear that you have to force yourself to do so. What Sowell says isn't "counter intuitive" — it simply runs counter to your inuition because it's false.
So did God approve of slavery? Because it was in the constitution until a lot of Americans fought and died to outlaw it. What did God think about that?
I too would love you cite the "study after study."
Here's the truth: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203...
Go get 'em EdSki
Wow, wr1,
Your razor-sharp intellect is really in overdrive. "A lot of Americans fought and died to outlaw it (slavery)," BECAUSE the institution of slavery was an internal contradiction to the inalienable rights of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" recognized in the Declaration of Independence. (BTW, the Consitution does NOT mention slavery).
That fact that the issue was still so volatile "four score and seven years" after the adoption of the Constitution that we waged the bloodiest war in our history to settle it seems to me to be overwhelming proof that there is a harsh penalty for failure to recognize the inalienable nature of liberty.
I repeat: rights are not a social construct to be played around with for reasons of political expedience, but realities which we ignore at our peril.
No, it wasn't in the Constitution. Try again.
It's like auto insurance. You can't take out a policy on a wreaked car. Or is that a right now too?
The Constitution was Amended. The Framers did not want Slavery Included and the 3/5ths rule was instituted so that Slaves could not be used to stack the deck in the Slaves States Favor. It is easy to critcize what you do not understand. Sure, Slavery could have been outlawed from the beginning and if it had been there would not be a United States. Slavery is a stain on this Nations Soul but we cleansed it ourselves with Blood and Treasure. The English, despite the latest revision, never did. They outlawed it on the Home Island of England but thier Colonial Empire Existed until After WWII.
The Constitution was Amended. The Framers did not want Slavery Included and the 3/5ths rule was instituted so that Slaves could not be used to stack the deck in the Slaves States Favor. It is easy to critcize what you do not understand. Sure, Slavery could have been outlawed from the beginning and if it had been there would not be a United States. Slavery is a stain on this Nations Soul but we cleansed it ourselves with Blood and Treasure. The English, despite the latest revision, never did. They outlawed it on the Home Island of England but thier Colonial Empire Existed until After WWII. Slavery existed either in direct form or virtual Slavery enforced by British Arms.
I'm a medical student we had this discussion in medical law and ethics.
Last semester there was a person stating she 'deserved' free healthcare. She said it was her moral right. SHE DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE DEFINITION OF MORALITY – AND YOU PEOPLE ARE USING IT INCORRECTLY AS WELL.
MORALITY – a code of conduct or belief concerning matters of what is moral or immoral (these words are commonly misplaced with right or wrong which are words of logic not morality)
1. healthcare is a goods or service – you want it – you buy it.
2. the government was never meant to provide these things because they have nothing to do with governing.
3. if you want it as a right – have a constitutional amendment
5 45 billion in medicade fraud waste and abuse – clean that up first (it's congress's legal and moral obligation)
6 If you could buy insurance across state lines, if they went after tort reform, if there wasn't so many people SUIING (under false or morally questionable situtations) costs would not soar for the rest of us.
AND 7 – ALL YOU 'MORAL RIGHTS PEOPLE ARE USING THE WORD INCORRECTLY –
YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT MORALITY MEANS AND YOUR USING IT INCORRECTLY
kudos!
bwahahahah touche
Ladies and Gents, the Nobel Prize in Liberalism goes to wr1.
First, attack your opponent ( a PHD in Economics as a right-wing hack). Then claim that studies prove him wrong, but offer no evidence. Then attack your oppenent some more!
Ok..you freakin sh*t-for-brains:
It this is true: Study after study has proven that raising minimum wage does not increase unemployment at all
Then explain to us all why : we don't make the minimum wage 100,000/yr.
freakin' idiot.
Ladies and Gents, the Nobel Prize in Liberalism goes to wr1.
First, attack your opponent ( a PHD in Economics as a right-wing hack). Then claim that studies prove him wrong, but offer no evidence. Then attack your oppenent some more!
Ok..you freakin sh*t-for-brains:
It this is true: Study after study has proven that raising minimum wage does not increase unemployment at all
Then explain to us all why : we don't make the minimum wage $100,000/yr.
freakin' idiot. Intuitive enuff for you yet?
I wish I could give you a +10.
There is a way out, still, in America. Vote with your feet. Give up the tremendous beauty for a decent place to live and low costs. Like Texas. But leave your 'nancy poo' liberalism behind.
They say that the resort to 'Patriotism' is the last refuge of a scoundrel. I say that the resort to ad hominem attacks (citing no data whatsoever) is the FIRST refuge of a liberal.
Yes, California elected a Republican Governor, and that leads to trouble because Republicans run up big bills and then refuse to pay them with tax money with the inevitable result: The state is bankrupt. Virginia has had Democrat Governors that pay the bills and so Virginia with governors that are Democrats is doing much better than Californians with a Republican.
He thinks you're an idiot for trying to misdirect the conversation that the adults are having here. So put down your moms keyboard, leave the basement fro the daylight and take a shower. You mu=ight find it repugnant but therest of us will appreciate it.
I think healthcare supporters believe they get a free medical care just being Obama supporters. Well, they don't know how to live beyond their means and do their budget so they just believe in hope and change.
Yeah, Kalifornia has a republican legislature that votes for ridiculous social welfare spending that we all know the Liberals there will fight to the death against (Sarcasm off)
all of you guy's could be right. maybe just possible that you're all exactly right, but we won't know until president obama's first four years are up. but what we do know without a doubt is that we had 6 years, 6 years of total conversative, republican rule and it was so great that the people of the United States elected a black man to clean up the mess. that we do know without a doubt.
just saying you know.
And that's exactly how you do this political dance with liberals. Do not let them define the premise of the debate. If they do that they win, and if you prevent them from doing it, they lose.
As I understand it there are two types of questions, objective and subjective. An objective question is like 2+2=? We can prove with out any doubt, the answer is 4. An objective question is why 2+2 and not 3+1 or 4+0? There is no definitive answer to 'why.'
I posted an objective statement, he replied with a subjective statement, attempting to turn it from an objective debate to a subjective debate. A subjective debate is devoid of logic and reason, and based on emotions.
That's their trick. And that's all it is.
Right: "Roman Polanski plead guilty to child rape, he should go to jail."
Left: "But he's an artist, he's suffered, it's been so long….."
They've changed the debate from objective law, to subjective art.
Hmmm, well I can see how that would exempt President Obama from all criticism.
Thank you for pointing that out. Please accept my sincerest apologies. I'll try not to criticize that elegant, yet socialistic, gentleman ever again.
GWB may have been a Republican, but right-wing conservative he was not. He was a pretty close to center Republican. Now, some may consider him conservative compared to our current president, but that's just the nature of D vs. R.
You folks on the right will never take responsibility for anything , will you?
"some may consider him conservative compared to our current president" , oh you think?
In what universe are Bush Cheney and Rove not conservative? You can't just write off all your failures by saying they were not "true conservatives". You know , that's what crazy lefties do, always saying so-and-so wasn't a "true socialist" , or that "true marxism hasn't been tried". Oh it's been tried and failed , just like Bush/cheney/rove.
It is both pathetic and hilarious that the Obama-ists qualify almost every comment about his mounting failures with something along the line of "well he inherited the mess from Bush." Here are some messes that Bush inherited from Clinton yet he never whined about having to clean them up. A minor recession, a declining stock market, a huge Wall St. corporate scandal, nuclear proliferation in N.Korea and Iran, a recalcitrant Saddam Hussein, an Al Qaeda terrorist organization that had grown from a minor threat in 1993 to one capable of murdering thousands of Americans and last but not least, a disloyal oppostion party that in conjuction with its media comrades was intent on destroying Bush no matter the cost to the nation. Add in the legacy of the failed Great Society policies, those from the New Deal as well as more recent failed leftist policies as the Community Reinvestment Act,, all of which have had a cumulative negative impact upon the economy. So leftists, look in the mirror before you huff and puff indignantly about legitimate criticism of Dear Leader, it is you who have brought this country so low.
fantastic article sir!
Since when was Iran a part of the USA?
great article, hits the nail on the head
I forgot empircal facts are like kryptonite to a liberal…
Great read Joseph! 80/20 principle is always the case. Free is what the 20% are willing to provide. If the 20% decide to quit the 80% will fail faster than Zimbabwe. Galt’s Gulch ladies and gentlemen let’em collect the taxes from the poor.
I ditto SQT!! Well stated Ed!!
Hey Clark…want a beer?? LOL good analogy, and I had an Uncle that was similar to Eddie.
You make some very good points, however you skipped over #4, so I was temporarily confused. But to reiterate you make a few very good points. I don't know why you had a thumbs down.
A "pre-existing condition"? – If you wait until your house is on fire before you buy fire insurance it will probably cost you more too.
That's funny because Sowell documents study after study after study pointing out that raising minimum wage increases unemployment, for those most in need of a job, those at the bottom rung of the economic ladder.
Please note the unemployment rate for teens is 25.9%. Where are their jobs? They do not exist because the labor component of the cost of hiring them is to high to cover their productivity.
Simple fact, choose to ignore it if you like, but in order for an employer to pay and employee, the employee must generate at least as much wealth as it costs to pay him, and the over head associated with that position.
If an employer pays an employee more than the employee generates in wealth, the employer goes bankrupt, and all the employees are out of a job.
There are many costs incurred by an employer hiring a worker, employee pay is only one, there is also social security, facilities, insurance, etc. Labor is one aspect of those costs. Raising the minimum wage artificially inflates the cost of labor while adding nothing to productivity,
You will probably point to studies that say few if any workers are laid off specifically because of a raise in minimum wage, the true cost comes in the manner of new jobs not being created, employers applying technology that replaces workers out right, and every one's favorite, shipping jobs off shore to cheaper wages.
If you want to have an honest debate on the economics of the economics of minimum wage, living wages, and wages in general, I'm game, bring it on.
But if all your going to do is hurl insults, cite non-existing documentation, and in general, act like a modern liberal, screw you. I can play the liberal game better than any liberal I've ever met. Because I used to be one.
Bring it on.
Maybe the lousy writing ("YOUR USING" when he apparently meant to say "YOU'RE USING" (although good netiquette would have demanded he stop shouting and say "you're using"). I'm a faculty member at a U.S. medical school (and practicing physician) so I suggest you (mistermacc) learn to spell "Medicaid" if you expect to get taken seriously when discussing this and related topics.
you seem to be implying that he is inferior because he is a black man. curious how libs seem to project their own hidden beliefs onto their opponents – thanks for shining a light on it again.
The few Republicans that ever tried to do anything concerning medical costs and coverage were knocked down and called obstructionists. The problem we're in goes back to the beginning of Billary. During the GHWB, Billary and Perot debate, GHWB was warning about HMO (Teddy Kennedy's baby) woes. Billary won and HMO's became horrid, gigantic bureaucracies while Hillary screwed things leading to our current Big Pharma. Their 'reforms' interfering in private markets and neglect and abuse of Medicare/Medicaid, among other things, led to this mess of high costs. Bush II and Reps. became "me too" progressives so no real reform there, right?
Let's not mince words here; "healthscare reform" that they want is not a right, it is ALL about government control. Government CONTROLLING our lives. Our bodies will belong to the state, sooner or later, if we don't restructure now to ensure all free market options remain available and that businesses can continue to innovate.
How about low cost coverage for all instead of high cost "free"?
Agreed!Every tech sector job I do MUST produce between $400-800 in billable services PER DAY or I don't work.That started for me in the 80's,with my first job at GE.
I think what he was trying to say was in reference to the philosophical nature of our rights as the founding fathers saw them. The idea that the right to free speech or right to bear arms cannot be taken away comes with the understanding that to take them away is to take away life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Yes the Iranian protesters on trial are having their rights taken away. But in order to accomplish this, Iran is in fact taking their lives. As the founders saw it, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are so intertwined that they are one thing. So to take away a portion of someone's rights is to take a portion of their life.
The left might say they are redistributing for the sake of the collective. Some pragmatists like Robert B. Reich might admit they are taking from the lives of some for the sake of the lives of others. (quote, "we're gonna let you die.") But in reality government cannot give to others in any meaningful way, they can only confiscate. This is why socialism is always about poverty on a massive scale and death to many, sometimes on a scale of tens of millions.
The sad thing is, those who leave the state and move to nearby states, bring their wacky ideals with them. If they are escaping the unsustainable policies, then they need to leave their progressive ideals at the door when they exit.
If you reread the original reply from RPD, you will notice they does not specify a nation. They simply state that rights can not be taken from you.
They are taken from billions of people around the world every day.
Yep.
For you to exercise your "rights" requires nothing more from me than tolerance.
Demanding some one else forfeit their property for you is not a right. It's confiscation.
It seems to me that we American selfish cows have over the years laid down for insurance companies in the hope that they would manage health care,help fight disease and spread care effeciently among all of us. But we did not notice that insurance companies and health care providers were creating their own rights and policies that so affected each one of us adversly in some way. Now our health care system is broken and it has to change whether it is government run, privatley managed or a combination of both. Now we are all complaining and taking sides. Here is an idea. Totally abolish Insurance companies. Pay as you go. Allow competitive pricing and negotiation of care. Create laws that are sensible. Yes we should all have to pay, for our own care. And even immigrants should be able to go to the doctor for their childs ear infection. And probably would go to a local clinic rather than the emergency room, if somehow that was made possible.
It IS totally possible for "immigrants" to go to a local clinic for routine sniffles rather than an emergency room, and most of them do. It's even possible for illegal aliens to do so–they just choose not to, because the local clinic will send them a bill. Paying for their own care cuts into the money they send home.
huge increases in entitlement spending, massive budget deficits, increased non-military foreign aid, these are all much more commonly associated with liberal policies and "true conservatives" tore Bush up for all of these. And funnily enough, these are all the things people are angry at him for. If he had stuck to conservative fiscal policy we would be in much better shape right now.
LOL! Blackout 2001, Gray out 2002, remember? Or maybe you don't live in California. The governator GOT his job because the people of California forced a recall and fired the democrat (Gray Davis). California's years of feel-good legislation left them unable to provide electricity to their own state.
That said, California has yet to elect a conservative. Conan the Governor is married to a Kennedy. How right wing is that?
WORTHLESS OBAMA VOTERS WAITING FOR A HANDOUT!
Most of the liberal saps expecting FREE HEALTH SERVICES are government drones, illegals, welfare recipients, those still mooching off mom and dad and other worthless freeloaders. If they actually do work and get a paychack, they don't want to spend THEIR OWN MONEY for health care, that is reserved for personal items like computer games, big screen TVs and dope.
PRICELESS… Git Obama Money…
http://usataxpayer.org/Pages/gitobamamoney.asp?Vi...
Liberal Bill of Rights…
http://usataxpayer.org/page1.asp?Get=librights
Other nations don't believe that mankind has been granted certain unalienable "rights", as we do. That's what has always made the USA so special ! You can't look at what's happening in Iran, nor any other nation, through the prism of what used to be the norm in this nation; it's just not valid. .
Our Bill Of Rights are being shredded and the Constitution trampled. We won't be "special" any more, because Obama and the rest of his stinking Commie pals are doing their damnedest to destroy this nation.
You can't use what our FF's said and instituted here, for others in foreign nations. Their countries haven't and don't accept our notion of "RIGHTS".
In case any of you are still unsure of why we fought various wars, it was because of our belief that all men are created equal and have RIGHTS! That's one reason we were in the Viet Nam War. It's also part of the reason we went to Iraq. Though this has always been a motivationg force, that now appears to be over.
The battle for rights is not nation vs. nation, its humanity's struggle against our own worse nature – the desire to do what ever it takes to control the actions of others.
The US has been the most successful up to this point, the battle for rights will never be over.
The price for liberty is eternal vigilance, and a $15 donation to Cato.
Nobody on YOUR side ever waited even 24 hours after President Bush was inaugurated, to slam, trash, and shred him.
Forget the double standard………………………….we will condemn Obama's positions, policies, and choices as he makes them, if we disagree with them/they have proven to be wrong for this nation. At least we are doing so because of what he does or doesn't do, instead of just because he is a Dem.
Oh good grief………………………………this has nothing to do with Iran, or are you suggesting that we go in and take over and then remake that nation?
Don't like what's happening over there? BLAME JIMMY CARTER ! Then, blame Obama for his asinine bowing and scraping and dithering .
Who said anything about invading any one. I just look at rights differently than you I guess.
Your right to free speech requires nothing more from me than tolerance to your message. That can be taken away very easily. As a matter of fact, McCain-Fiengold did just that with political speech from We The People before an election.
I mentioned Iran purely as an example of just how easy it is for a government to take away citizen's rights.
Who said anything about invading any one? I just look at rights differently than you I guess.
Your right to free speech requires nothing more from me than tolerance to your message. That can be taken away very easily. As a matter of fact, McCain-Fiengold did just that with political speech from We The People before an election.
I mentioned Iran purely as an example of just how easy it is for a government to take away citizen's rights.
There are any number of better examples, such as the one you just gave ( re the hideous McCain-Fiengold ) , which would have served you better, than using Iran and that was my original point.
We really shouldn't use other nation's actions, re "rights", when so many other nations don't view "rights" the same way that America does. It would be nice, if others did follow in our FF's footsteps, re rights, but they don't .
See, i don't view rights as things granted by states to people, we already have our rights, all the state can do is take them away.
I was explaining to the original poster that started this sub thread, who stated that can't be taken away.
And in my own opinion, I think you be hard pressed to find some one, in some other nation, who's not in a position of power who takes a dim view of human rights.
For example, we can point to probably any protest in a Muslim country, where there are signs stating democracy is unIslamic. But those Imams hold a lot of power over the culture and religion. They know under their current dictators and monarchs, their privileged positions of power are safe. So they are all for keeping the status quo.
I'm a firm believer that human nature yearns to be free, to find one's own destiny. To paraphrase Frederick Douglas, there is not a man under God's sky who knows slavery is wrong for them.
Iran has NEVER been a democracy, or a republic; ergo, its people have always had their "rights" subject to an emperor, king/shah, or a group of religious crazies. They hadx it much better under the Shah, but that's a whole other discussion.
Yes, I agree, mankind is hardwired to be free. It's just that in the scheme of things, that's just never happened, to the extent it was/sort of still is in America.
Slavery is dead wrong, but has been an accepted state ( though no longer here or in other Western nations ), from time immemorial. Serfdom is also a state of being which should be, but is.
You can espouse freedom for everyone, everywhere, but that's not going to happen; well, not in the foreseeable future.
I get the feeling we've been agreeing with each pretty much all along. Funny how that happens in threads.
Yes, I have no illusions that freedom will suddenly break out world wide. But we are making progress. And by "we" I mean we people, inhabitants of this civilization, against oppression by the state.
My opinion is that biggest cause of violence, death, oppression, etc., is the ugly human nature to exert control over other humans. I think that's where liberals love for dictators comes from. Obama being just one example, refuses to meet with the PM of Britain, but has no problem remaining quiet on Iran's demonstrations.
Statists so fear society with out the guiding hand of the state, they are happy to settle for a state that ruthlessly oppresses their citizens.
And, benign as health care reform sounds, its the same thing, only in different robes. The state controlling as much of our lives as possible.
Finally ! LOL
Yes, we do agree; except that your use of Iran was NOT a good one, for where you wanted to be. That's all I was pointing out.
"HEALTH CARE REFORM" never sounded "benign" to me; not when Hillary was trying to force it down our collective throats and most assuredly not now !
Hillary is a Fabian Socialist; Obama is an outright MARXIST overlaid with
post colonialism white hatred…….which is far worse.
FYI…………………some people think that Barry keeps on snubbing Brown, because he HATES the English; as his father did and his cousin, Odinga ( or however he spells his name ) does. .
To be fair, his Father has a pretty good reason to. As I understand it he spent years in an English colonial prison during the Kenyan rebellions. Which I'm sure was less than pleasant.
President Obama has to of the worse issues any liberal can have – I know, I deal with it all the time – he thinks he's so smart, he doesn't even know how little he really knows.
Ignorance and arrogance.
To be fair, his Father has a pretty good reason to. As I understand it he spent years in an English colonial prison during the Kenyan rebellions. Which I'm sure was less than pleasant.
President Obama has two of the worse issues any liberal can have – I know, I deal with it all the time – he thinks he's so smart, he doesn't even know how little he really knows.
Ignorance and arrogance.
I think that that may have been his grandfather, something about being part of the Mau Mauing murders of whites; but I could be mistaken. So if I am remembering correctly, he deserved agt least what he got, if not more……..to be "fair".
The thing is, he spent a couple of days with his father, at the age of 10 and that's it. His mother and father never even lived together, when Barry was a baby. In truth, he doesn't have any idea who or what his father was.
His crazy mother filled his head full of stories about his father ( whom she knew little about ), Malcolm X ( but just the hateful stuff, not about Malcolm after his transformative Mecca ), and a lot of lefty hogwash. His grandfather ( also a far lefty ) and Barry's early mentor, the card carrying Commie pedophile, Frank Marshall Davis, filled his head with even more black racist and stinking Commie garbage. And on and on and on…………….so who knows where he really got his anti-Brit feelings?
Obama has been coddled and protected and handed everything, all of his life. He is actually a rather stupid, shallow, arrogant, little man.
This is really a great message for the conservatives to put out: if you can't afford your health insurance, or your health care costs if you get sick , then tough. It's not a right and if you aren't wealthy enough to cover it then too bad. I hope you pursue this line of thinking , it should go over great with the american public. Oh right , sorry , tort reform will solve everything, I forgot.
I also like the way you work "gay pride day" into an article on health care costs.
More like you're just saying you don't know and can only parrot the usual narratives. Six years of "total conservative" rule? You use the words, but I don't think you really know what it means. But hey, it's teh Narrative! so you'll squawk it with utter faith.
Rights can, and are frequently violated. But no, rights cannot be taken from you. The Iranians you mention still have their rights, but are restrained from exercising them by a monstrous regime.
Different way of stating it, but essentially we're on the same page.
Insightful comments on this thread EdSki! I'm just a beginner on how to argue with these people. I wish I was so logical and succinct. Being an engineer I've got the logic part down. It's the not-being-drawn-in part and the articulate part I'm not so good at. Thanks for the pep talk!
If you're an engineer, then you have to understand logic or else your head would have exploded in Physics II. And that means you are more than half way there.
I was a software engineer and comp sci major, now doing I/T network architect stuff. Mostly firewalls and vpns.
Check this out: http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/ I just found it with google.
And this: http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/fallacy_topics...
That's what got me started on this road. I learned the Socrates (or was that Aristotle?) rules for logical debate. Once I learned those, I learned how to absolutely gut any argument any liberal could make.
Then I realized, I could do the same to any argument I made. So I had to go back, and rethink my positions on a whole range of issues, and either find a logical reason for holding them, or else find a new logical position.
And I have to tell you, its not always easy living with comes out of the other end of that introspection,
Thanks, teach! I'll check these links out. I became a bit interested in philosophy after reading "Sofie's World" a while back, but never went anywhere with it. Anyway, I think you're using the Socratic method from what I can remember.
My head did explode in Physics 104, which was magnetics or intro to quantum physics or something. I flunked and had to take it over the summer. That was one long summer. Luckily, I never use that stuff in designing roadways.
Thanks again for the feedback!
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