U.S.A. vs. Canada: The Healthcare Debate
by Joseph C. PhillipsIn May of 2004 the New York Times published an article entitled “Health Care Leads Other Issues in Canadian Vote.” The substance of the article was that in the elections that were upcoming, the future of the Canadian health care system was the predominate issue. On the one side were liberals seeking to reverse the trend of privatizing diagnostic services and increase federal aid to provincial governments. On the other conservatives were trying to increase private sector involvement as a way to lower costs and increase service. In spite of the Canadians patriotic zeal for their system, the article makes it clear that there was a growing recognition among citizens and politicians that the system was in the words of the Times, “ailing.” The waiting times for care were growing longer not shorter, the availability of doctors and nurses was becoming sparse especially in rural areas, opinion polls during the previous decade indicated a rising dissatisfaction with medical services and most significantly the cost of delivering medical care had grown so expensive that many provinces were being forced to “trim their budgets for education and other vital services.” Mind you this information came not from the Heritage Foundation but the New Liberal paper of record: The New York Times.
I must remember to share this article with my friend Bryan. Bryan is a cancer survivor. I have had friends that have lost their battles with cancer so his continued presence on this earth is a great joy to me and a fact of which I am sure he is also no doubt ecstatic. Bryan is particularly interested in the current state of health care costs because his insurance paid for what he terms a “measly portion” of his treatment- he is currently burdened with the cost of what his insurance did not cover. He simply can’t afford the astronomical cost. His complaint is echoed by many clamoring for nationalized healthcare. What remains unclear is under what moral principle one man can demand that others pay for his healthcare and whether any policy not firmly grounded in a moral truth can be just.
Bryan’s story perfectly illustrates the truth that the rising cost of healthcare has coincided with the rising quality of healthcare. It is true that not too long ago he would have paid considerably less for his cancer treatment. The bad news is that he would not have been around long enough to spend his savings. New drugs and new technologies lengthened his life as it they have for hundreds of thousands of others. Progress comes with a price tag.
Bryan was not denied care. In fact no one in America is denied healthcare. He had insurance and he has an income with which to pay what the insurance didn’t cover. The fact is– he would much rather spend his money on something else other than hospital bills reaching into the thousands of dollars. What better solution than a system where cancer treatment is paid for by someone else? He may be interested to learn that the U.S. ranks first in the world in cancer survivor rates and that breast cancer survivors in Canada have filed a class action suit against several hospitals that forced them to wait 12 weeks for radiation therapy. Obviously neither Bryan nor other national healthcare advocates want to wait in lines or have others decide if they are to live or die. What they want is someone else to foot the bill even if children receiving a public education must suffer.
This brings me to a conversation I had about healthcare a few years ago on the corner of 8th avenue and 47th street in Manhattan. I was standing on the corner debating politics with my friend Nancy, or I should say my ex-friend Nancy. This conversation was one of the last I had with her and remains positive proof that good friends ought to avoid discussing politics. But I digress.
At one point Nancy decried the fact that poor people did not have access to the same care as those of better means. I responded rather incredulously that the wealthy would always have access to better care because they would always be able to pay for it. Nancy’s eyes grew narrow and she asked me, “Do you think that is fair?”
It was at that moment that I truly understood that for all the handwringing about rising costs and access for the 47 million uninsured what is really at issue is equality. Will America be a place where some have more and others have less? Because we can’t all be equal in our benefits will we struggle to “level the playing field” in order to ensure that we are all equal in our misery?
But even in Canada some folks are more equal than others. What we learn in the Times account is that the use of influence in order to jump waiting times is common and that those preaching the virtue of a nationalized system are frequently at pains to explain why they and their loved ones attend private clinics.
The Times article ends with the conservative Member of Parliament giving an emotional speech wherein he promises to expand federal drug benefits. Of course he neglects to explain where he will get the money to “pay for a program that will cost hundreds of millions of dollars a year.”
Politics in any language.






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102 Comments
MR. PHILLIPS, EXCELLENT AS ALWAYS!!! IT'S ABOUT MAKING THINGS FAIR AT ITS CORE ISN'T IT???
GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE, THE SUB-PRIME HOUSING DISASTER; ABOUT MAKING THINGS FAIR
AND THE PART THEY DON'T TELL YOU NOT ONLY WILL IT NOT MAKE THINGS FAIR, BECUASE LIFE NEVER IS AND NEVER HAS BEEN, AND NEVER WILL BE…. BUT IT WILL MAKE THINGS CRAPPY, IT WILL RESULT IN RATIONING, GOVT. AUTOCRATS DECIDING MY HEALTH CHOICES, IT WILL RESULT IN MORE PREVENTABLE DEATHS AND IT WILL RESULT IN LOSS OF FREEDOM NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!!!!
AS FOR YOUR GOOD FRIEND YOU LOST, YOU'RE MOST LIKELY BETTER OFF WITH OUT HER; AS FOR YOUR FRIEND THAT'S STILL ALIVE, TELL HIM TO THANK GOD HE WAS BORN IN AMERICA…
KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK….
Canadian universal health care is rooted in socialism, and like everything that socialism touches or produces. it sucks. Where I live, in Quebec, it is the worst by far. Steve Crowder was right on with his assessment of healthcare here.
Idiots like Michael Moore, Obamabots, Sean Penn and all other Castro wet dreams…are so ignorant it staggers the imagination. Why don't they go live where they claim it is so much better?
I pity you guys and what obama is doing to your country! I honestly hope that America wakes up soon!
Instead of tort reform, the basis for soaring medical costs, we are faced with nationalizing health care instead and that is just a pretense for MANDATORY health insurance… I remember when they said mandatory car insurance would drive the price down and I also remember when they said cable T.V. wouldn't have commercials.
Canada has No healthcare system, period. They do a lottery now, where you are in for a draw to see a doctor..waiting time up to two years…there is no sugar coating healthcare in any other country..those of us who have lived oversea's know the worst of it. Americans are not leaving this country to recieve Good healthcare. But all the Illegals come here to get it. We just got back from a personal tour of Mexico..stopped in to see one of their hospitals…humm They actually pee in the hall ways…its much worse than that, point is…we will get Worse healthcare if we let Obama at our healthcare.
The Obama nation wants to level the ball field with RICH AND POOR people INCOME redistribution in one form or another,… the next thing he will do is AMNESTY for ILLEGALS… then he has a additional couple of million democrates that will vote for him.
I will say this, I am actually almost sick to my stomach over the amount of stuff I have to gripe about with this man and his cabinet
I can't help but wonder why the media is not showing the polls on healthcare reform…78% of America is darn happy with our healthcare?
What I find to be the tell tail is the two recent amendments to the Health Care that were voted out. One amendment stated that recipients of the health care were required to prove citizenship. The amendment other would have required the Government to use this plan.
So the politicians get the first class plan and the rest of us get what is left over.
In addition I find interesting the provision that would reduce Medicare services. Just as the boomers are approaching retirement, the plans that were paid into over the years will be canceled.
There is fair for you!
>The fact is he would much rather spend his money on something else other than hospital bills reaching into the thousands of dollars.
Please tell Bryan that I would spend my money on something else than his hospital bills too.
Tell that to Ms Pelosi.
Screw Nancy!
I posted this on another article but is is just as appropriate since it is the same subject of Obama's Healthcare. I wonder would Obama and his family be willing to give up their current medical care for whatever Congress comes up with for the American people? I wonder if the members of Congress would give up their free tax payer funded health care as well? I think if they feel so strongly that the American people must have this system then they should be the first to sign up for it. Can't you just picture Ted Kennedy or Robert Byrd waiting in line for treatment? I wonder would Obama have the balls to tell them they should think of Hospice care from now on and just die? He feels it is ok for you and I but I wonder if he would make an acception to his rule for his buddy Teddy?
Liberals think what they are offering us is good for us but I don't see any of them signing themselves up for it. And Obama should be at the front of the line taking the first spoonfull.
I'm not sick I'm scared as hell as to where were going. And I'm mad as hell with the Democrats.
I'm not sick. I'm scared as hell as to where were going. And I'm mad as hell with the Democrats.
This author has identified the conundrum of delivering medical care. How do do it effectively and cheaply.
The countries with a national health service do it cheaply — compared to America — and if you' don't get really sick, it's great. Free vaccinations, free stitches if you cut your foot. But if you get something really bad, then you just might die while waiting for your turn in the queue.
From what I know about Britain, those with means buy additional insurance to cover them if they get sick. They justify this by saying they're decreasing the wait for those who can't afford extra fees (this is the argument one proponent of NHS gave me when I called him a hypocrite for advocating for others that which is not good enough for him). Thus, contrary to what we are told, Britain has a two-tier health system; one for those who can't afford private insurance and/or pay out of pocket and one for those who can't.
So how DO we deliver health care safely, effectively and cheaply to all Americans?
1. We can start by Tort Reform. Millions are spent practicing defensive medicine. We need the loser pays system, If the doctor did commit malpractice and loses the case, s/he pays. If not, then the loser pays not only his attorney but the cost of the physician's attorney and all court costs.
2. Combine the VA System with the Public Health system and open it to all American citizens for every aspect of medical care/treatment from well checks for infants to abdominal aortic surgery for Grandpa.
3. Offer any physician forgiveness of one year of his/her medical school debt for each year s/he spends in the federal system practicing his/her specialty. Thus, if a surgeon wants four years of his/her med. school debt forgiven, s/he can practice in the VA/NH system for four years. They currently do this all the time with teachers in the Title I schools.
4. All citizens deduct medical care/expenses/insurance from their income tax beginning at first dollar. Currently, you have to be very poor or very sick to get a deduction, and that is only in any amount OVER 7.5% of your income. That's ludicrous in a country that's howling about National Health Care!
5. Private Insurance of two kinds: a) Since Obama et al work for us, Americans should have the option of buying into the government's health care system at the same cost to the government employees. This fixes portability.
6. For those who do not want to opt into the government's plan and would rather have employer based insurance, once that person is enrolled in an employer based system, s/he can never be let go even if s/he loses his/her job. S/he can move to another job and still stay on the original plan so long as s/he pays the premiums (at the same cost as to company employees). This is PORTABILITY!
But this isn't the point of the Government's plan. The point of the government's plan is a) to address social security which is breaking the bank — old folks don't live as long under a national health care plan. The sick ones die in the queue
b) control. People dependent on the government for their health (and life) don't usually mouth off to those in charge.
This author has identified the conundrum of delivering medical care. How do do it effectively and cheaply.
The countries with a national health service do it cheaply — compared to America — and if you' don't get really sick, it's great. Free vaccinations, free stitches if you cut your foot. But if you get something really bad, then you just might die while waiting for your turn in the queue.
From what I know about Britain, those with means buy additional insurance to cover them if they get sick. They justify this by saying they're decreasing the wait for those who can't afford extra fees (this is the argument one proponent of NHS gave me when I called him a hypocrite for advocating for others that which is not good enough for him). Thus, contrary to what we are told, Britain has a two-tier health system; one for those who can't afford private insurance and/or pay out of pocket and one for those who can.
So how DO we deliver health care safely, effectively and cheaply to all Americans?
1. We can start by Tort Reform. Millions are spent practicing defensive medicine. We need the loser pays system, If the doctor did commit malpractice and loses the case, s/he pays. If not, then the loser pays not only his attorney but the cost of the physician's attorney and all court costs.
2. Combine the VA System with the Public Health system and open it to all American citizens for every aspect of medical care/treatment from well checks for infants to abdominal aortic surgery for Grandpa.
3. Offer any physician forgiveness of one year of his/her medical school debt for each year s/he spends in the federal system practicing his/her specialty. Thus, if a surgeon wants four years of his/her med. school debt forgiven, s/he can practice in the VA/NH system for four years. They currently do this all the time with teachers in the Title I schools.
4. All citizens deduct medical care/expenses/insurance from their income tax beginning at first dollar. Currently, you have to be very poor or very sick to get a deduction, and that is only in any amount OVER 7.5% of your income. That's ludicrous in a country that's howling about National Health Care!
5. Private Insurance of two kinds: a) Since Obama et al work for us, Americans should have the option of buying into the government's health care system at the same cost to the government employees. This fixes portability.
6. For those who do not want to opt into the government's plan and would rather have employer based insurance, once that person is enrolled in an employer based system, s/he can never be let go even if s/he loses his/her job. S/he can move to another job and still stay on the original plan so long as s/he pays the premiums (at the same cost as to company employees). This is PORTABILITY!
But this isn't the point of the Government's plan. The point of the government's plan is a) to address social security which is breaking the bank — old folks don't live as long under a national health care plan. The sick ones die in the queue
b) control. People dependent on the government for their health (and life) don't usually mouth off to those in charge.
You first Donn
Even if our dear Congressional masters were required to join the public plan, it wouldn't hurt them so much. In reality, they would move to the head of the line and get super-care with plenty of individual attention. The Politboro in the USSR had the "same" health care as the peasants………….on paper.
Wonderful essay, Mr. Phillips, as usual!
Mad as hell… is not the word. I am floored by the blatant disregard for the American people at how they are throwing our money around, the left leaning medai has no care as well which makes me scared!!!!
Please spread the word of Community Transformation Plans!
http://templeofmut.wordpress.com/2009/07/20/commu...
One of the things she reported is that the Senate version of the proposed healthcare reforms had bureaucratic organizations to implement “Community Transformation Plans”. Teams that would assess the individuals that make up each community and begin drafting plans for healthier living. The bill, with the Orwellian name of the Affordable Health Choices Act, would direct money to “community organizations” so they could promote government health care and tailor citizens’ diet and exercise programs healthy lifestyles — based on their opinion of what constitutes such lifestyles. In a nutshell, American lifestyles would be dictated by “Community Transformers”.
I have been saying for a while now that this is what every taxpayer should be insisting on. We should insist that Congress agree to whatever health care plan they pass or no dice!
In my many arguments with liberal friends who have health insurance, they just think that it will be more fair if the uninsured have what they have. When I ask them what they are willing to give up to achieve this, they look at me like I'm crazy. "We won't have to give up anything," they say. Their naivete truly frightens me.
No Thanks!
My favorite was the claim that (and I'm paraphrasing).. the average voter is "too stupid to understand the bill". I had seen the link this morning, but forgot to bookmark it for later reference.
I live in Canada. Our family has used the medical plan here for many decades. I think it is a Godsend. There is "no fuss, no muss". I have some tips for the USA, go slow and try to weed out junkies and prostitutes into special treatments as they put a drain on the system, also mental people. Running a huge system is a bit of a nightmare no matter what I suppose, just ask the Securities Exchange Commission and the congressmen and senators that
were unable to stop the financial meltdown and near fatal collapse of the world banking system all because of sub-prime mortgages. Ask your self why have not the people responsible for adjusting laws to allow houses being sold to people unable to afford them been exposed like a pimple on the nose? Lawmakers must watch the system, and my idea is that if your going to have a medical system then maybe do as Canada, and have a law and the states administer their own program according to that law. Basic health care for all is a good start. Maybe have a yearly limit for annual care, and above that people are expectdd to pay some. Also politicians play politics with health care and promise free this and that, only later someone comes along and "takes back". So don't expect perfection. "don't get sick!"
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Total population of Canada = 33 million people. Population of the United States = 310 million. So automatically if we did what Canada does ours would be 10 times bigger thus an automatic ten time greater nightmare of government run "care". I love how politians and government controlled healthcare advocates always site countries with a 1/10th population or less than the US as examples we should follow.
Now either figure a way to wipe out 90% of the US population or in crease Canada's population to accurately test the theory. I know some of you are thinking "but China has 2 billion people and they have universal health care" To that I answer "Do you see anyone holding China up as an example on good health care?"
The elites will NEVER consent to being constrained by the same system they impose on US. Back when Newt Gingrich was Speaker, part of the Contract with America stipulated that Congress could NEVER be exempted from the laws it imposed on the people. Now, with Pelosi as Speaker, the elites are free to make us suffer any legislation at all and they will not need to be touched by it. (But they may be made rich at every opportunity!) I am certain their ultra-platinum insurance plans are theirs for life; they will never have to wait in lines or be turned down for treatment. THIS IS TYRANNY, plain and simple.
They should all be tried for their crimes.
These are all EXCELLENT solutions. Too bad they A) involve common sense and B) don't advance the government's agenda for controlling our lives. Both of those things mean the Obama gov't won't allow it.
We have the best health care, the latest techniques, the best doctors and cutting-edge technology. People from all over the world, including the world's leaders, come here to the United States when they want top-notch health care. Why?
THE COMPETITION INHERENT IN A CAPITALISTIC SYSTEM HAS CAUSED THE CREAM TO RISE TO THE TOP. COMPETITION CAUSES US TO HAVE THE BEST CARE TO OFFER.
Socializing medicine will cause us to be as mediocre as everyone else. That is nothing to be proud of.
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CONSERVATIVES AND LIBERALS:
When there is inequality, the conservative will try to bring or otherwise encourage the weaker, the smaller or the poorer UP TO the level of the stronger, the bigger or the more wealthy.
The liberal, when seeing inequality, tries to bring the stronger, the bigger and the wealthy DOWN to the level of the weaker, the smaller or the poorer.
Under whose system would you rather live???
Yes, but if the US followed Canada, where would we go when the crappy system set up and run by bureaucrats fails us? Unlike Canada, we won't have a United States to go to for treatment.
Eh?
"Will America be a place where some have more and others have less? Because we can’t all be equal in our benefits will we struggle to “level the playing field” in order to ensure that we are all equal in our misery?"
This is truly what the current political and cultural divide is about. How sad! A few generations ago, the answer was to struggle and work hard so one EARNED whatever "more" meant to an individual.
J. Phillips' writing reminds me of Kurt Vonnegut's short story "Harrison Bergeron" complete with the Handicapper General (he did not use Czars, too Russia-like in 1961, perhaps?). I may have to re-introduce that story into my curriculum. A web search provides links to on-line copies; definitely worth a read, especially for people who think like ex-friend Nancy!
Thank you for trying to clue in the many moronic Americans who think Obamacare is the answer. You mentioned several millionaires that will NEVER SUFFER FROM OBAMA'S DAMAGE. They will simply BUY WHAT THEY NEED. I was in London a few weeks ago and I had picked up a bit of a chest cold in France. I knew that I was not eligible to use the NHS doctors, but low and behold, there were PAY for service doctors visits at a local pharmacy. I decided to just wait it out, colds are colds, I returned to the U.S. and paid MY DOCTOR for a shot, and POOF, the cold was gone.
Well, I'm not so sure it's really about tort reform. yes, we live in a very lawsuit happy country, but I believe the primary reasons why healthcare is "so expensive" is because of 1.) hospitals are forced to treat and NOT GET PAID for treating illegals, 2.) many insurance companies are moving to a DRM model which is based on guess what? Gov't covered healthcare! Yes, Medicare and Medicaid. DRM specifies what a "normal cost to care" is for different billable service codes – such as transplants, medicines, and so forth. And by insurance companies, I do include medicare and medicaid.
An example? A hospital performs a double bipass on a patient. The patient happens to be on Medicare. The patient suddenly has complications and has to stay beyond the 5 "average" period and has to stay for an additional 5 days to recover. The hospital bills for the full 10 days. But, Medicare rejects the additional 5 days, and only pays what the DRM states "should" be the cost for that bipass. So, the hospital eats the cost of the additional 5 days. Costs go up.
Horrible – but this does NOT mean we need Obomacraponomic Socialized Healthcare. WE DON'T. What we need is sensible, but efficient, oversight for Insurance companies, REFUSE TO SERVE ILLEGALS (except for emergency situations), and FORCE foreign countries to pay for the costs of servicing those illegals. Sanction the countries that refuse to pay.
For tort reform – what really needs to happen, IMHO, is malpractice needs to be criminalized. If a doctor is truely negligent, impose the possibility of criminal prosecution and set predetermined fines (not arbitrary lawsuit $) so darn high that doctors will be sure to care for their patients/clients. Stop the free-willing of lawsuits to courts, which are already overburdened, and deem that if people and attorneys file frivilous lawsuits, or file lawsuits that in the end find in favor of the doctor, that the plantiffs risk hefty penalties.
Not perfect and yes, extreme, but holy cow, if we were to at least grow a pair or two, sans my rediculous tort reform idea LOL, you would see healthcare costs plumet very quickly while not diminishing the quality.
Yesterdays ILLEGALS are tomorrows DEMOCRAT VOTERS! It's not rocket science…this vote buying Kenyan is totally out-of-control….
I saw a number of 85% satisfied..I'll see if I can find it.
I saw a number of 85% satisfied with their healthcare…I'll see if I can find it.
One thing with ACORN… none legitamizing the ILLEGAL's… he is a smart cookie…
Dude, calm down.
Tchristemac, please restate your point. I'm not sure I follow. I probably agree just clarify what you mean, please. Thank you.
It's bad in Quebec because of the province's overall fiscal mismanagement but the quality of health care from province to province is quite varied. Much like in the US, the poorer provinces/states have lower quality heath facilities compared to the richer provinces/states. In my own experience and my families, the health care here in my province of Alberta has been quite reliable. Please ignore the naysayers out there who make outlandish claims about how we are unable to choose our own family doctors and specialists, not to mention those who say good emergency care in this country is non-existent, this is all nonsense.
What utter tripe. Yes, we have some of the best medical technologies available — but only to those who have the pockets to pay the premium for it. We spend more, per capita, than any other Western nation on healthcare, we get less for it, and our long term health outcomes are the worst of our peers. It's just utterly ridiculous to go about chanting "USA! USA!" when, in this case, for healthcare, it just means "Bad."
He started with ACORN… helping him win the election.. the next election will be him legitimatizing the illegals to help him win the election…… I just read the last post and I honestly do not understand it as well………..LOL!!!!!!!!!!
I know you know what you meant!
and I AGREE! I live in El Paso, right on the border and a surprising number of Mexican Americans (I'm half, my grandfather was from Mexico) DON'T WANT AMNESTY! It's the activists like La Raza and MALDEF that are pushing that crap.
La Raza, just ask Sotomayor…. I agree 100% so……
I have to admit that I am a bit put off by the statement "try to weed out junkies and prostitutes… also mental people" since I think that the worst possible thing that could happen under universal care is that categories be established. I am a physician and my oath is to treat people, not just certain kinds of people, and I doubt that too many other health care providers would feel comfortable if the population were split into various groups. If that happens can eugenics be too far away?
Do you think government run health care would have ever green lit an open heart transplant or any heart based surgery? There is no government care that would ever allow that procedure. Too risky, unproven and experimental. But years ago one Doctor convinced other doctors and a little girls parents to take the risk. As a result a little girl continued to live and thousand upon thousands have had that surgery performed.
If government control of healthcare comes then the progress in medicine will stagnate here in the US. If Obama's plan is so good why won't he let his family use it?
Don't worry, I speak l33t:
Dood, omgwtfbbq. Chillax and hav sum nom.
lol.
I either told him to relax and keep the faith, or that his toaster was on fire.
Actually, Canada does have an excellent health care system. It's right here in Buffalo.
Ironically, it's much more economically unequal. You have to be well-off to afford to take the time and money to come down here.
"Much like in the US, the poorer provinces/states have lower quality heath facilities compared to the richer provinces/states."
Yeah, but the problem is that we're being promised that socialized health care means things will finally be "fair" and "equal". Yet here you are confirming that the gap between rich and poor is still just as strong, except now the poor have no way to get rich themselves because they are being taxed to death and can't afford the private care the rich get, with terrible medical care to boot.
Just found this on the slime that is HuffPo:
In a reflection of a legislative strategy that has left no stone unturned, President Barack Obama on Monday called on like-minded bloggers to help his administration keep the heat on lawmakers to pass health care reform.
You can thank a trial lawyer for much of the ratcheting health-care costs and "getting less for it". How about some tort reform first, socialized health-care second? Ask yourself, why do we have the best medical technology available and not the socialized countries? Where do you get your statistics for the "long term health outcomes"? From Whitehouse press releases?
This is a partial list of vulnerable lawmakers that HuffPo is urging it's people to lobby, let's fight back!
Senator Mark Pryor (D-AR)
255 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510
Phone: (202) 224-2353
Senator Joe Lieberman (I-CT)
Fax: 202-224-9750
706 Hart Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
(202) 224-4041 Voice
Senator Mark Warner (D-VA)
Fax: 202-224-6295
459A Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: 202-224-2023
See this related parody entitled "Canadians Protest Plans to Ration Health Care in U.S." http://optoons.blogspot.com/2009/07/canadians-pro...
I wonder how all the tort loving liberals would feel when their ability to sue ad naseum comes to a screeching halt under Obamacare- whom are you going to sue when the care you get isn't what you expected- the government, Obama, Congress, your elected officials? (Doctors would be basically on the government payroll.) Good luck with that one- tell me how suing the governments has worked in other socialistic systems.
Forget too far away, it's already here. This spring in Holland (not exactly, of course, a fountain of libertarian thought), the government has already begun discussing whether or not they should begin sterilizing poor and/or criminal mothers after they have shown themselves to be "unfit" as raisers of children. If anyone should ask what's so bad about that, two immediate criticisms come to mind: first, the Dutch government itself admitted it's considering this less out of compassion for the children at stake than a desire to cut the costs of their enormous welfare state (more children to "unfit" mothers means more intervention by the State, which means further expenses in time and money); second, do we really want the government to define what is and what is not "unfit," particularly one as politically correct and "socially active," shall we say, as Holland's? Couldn't "unfit" come to mean those hostile to the agenda of the State, and sterilization an excuse for political punishment? The more I learn about 21st century Earth, the more I think of "Brave New World."
…who represents San Francisco–where a good deal of the other 22% live. She wouldn't understand.
And do you know what? I had this exact same argument with my college professor, who is a Marxist poli sci (sorry–redundancy checker broken) over liberal politicians' hypocrisy, except it was over their opposition to school choice while putting their kids in private schools, and he told me straight-faced that it was perfectly reasonable for them to do so until they could finally ensure that everyone would be in the same system. Isn't that annoying?
I don't want universal healthcare, not because of the cost, but because of Washington's control over the states and individuals via this legislation. On the other hand, I wish that there was a more robust private purchase market out there, so that I can someday move on from my job-lock job where I get my health insurance. Maybe if the insurance companies had made such a product more available over the years and less dependent on preexisting conditions, we wouldn't be in such a mess today.
How could we ever afford universal healthcare all while we ignore tort reform. NO country with universal healthcare has such a ridiculous civil law system as the US. Come to think of it, NO country without universal healthcare has a civil law system like our own. WE CANNOT do this without tort reform. But the truth is we're stupid to do it anyway. Our system will be a more expensive version of Canada or Britain but we'll get far less and will ultimately ration care far more.
An academic from Vanderbilt University just stated on Hannity's Great American Panel that academics are thrilled with Obama, because he is moving toward socialism—-and either Hannity or another panelist pinted out that she doesn't not have to worry about her job, and she agreed—"after all, I have tenure."
Those who can, do, those who can't teach—-I have friends who teach and live in the real world, but some of these types, the world from which Bammy came, are truly scary.
As well as the wonderful health care system they have, Canada has not been seriously affected by the recent virus strains that have spread around the world in recent years.
They thought they discovered a case of mad cow disease a few years back, but it turns out it was just Rosie O'Donnell visiting.
AMERICA’S NATIONAL HEALTHCARE EMERGENCY!
It’s official. America and the World are now in a GLOBAL PANDEMIC. A World EPIDEMIC with potential catastrophic consequences for ALL of the American people. The first PANDEMIC in 41 years. And WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES will have to face this PANDEMIC with the 37th worst quality of healthcare in the developed World.
STAND READY AMERICA TO SEIZE CONTROL OF YOUR NATIONAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.
We spend over twice as much of our GDP on healthcare as any other country in the World. And Individual American spend about ten times as much out of pocket on healthcare as any other people in the World. All because of GREED! And the PRIVATE FOR PROFIT healthcare system in America.
And while all this is going on, some members of congress seem mostly concern about how to protect the corporate PROFITS! of our GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT NATIONAL DISGRACE. A PRIVATE FOR PROFIT DISGRACE that is in fact, totally valueless to the public health. And a detriment to national security, public safety, and the public health.
Progressive democrats the Tri-Caucus and others should stand firm in their demand for a robust government-run public option for all Americans, with all of the minimum requirements progressive democrats demanded. If congress can not pass a robust public option with at least 51 votes and all robust minimum requirements, congress should immediately move to scrap healthcare reform and request that President Obama declare a state of NATIONAL HEALTHCARE EMERGENCY! Seizing and replacing all PRIVATE FOR PROFIT health insurance plans with the immediate implementation of National Healthcare for all Americans under the provisions of HR676 (A Single-payer National Healthcare Plan For All).
Coverage can begin immediately through our current medicare system. With immediate expansion through recruitment of displaced workers from the canceled private sector insurance industry. Funding can also begin immediately by substitution of payroll deductions for private insurance plans with payroll deductions for the national healthcare plan. This is what the vast majority of the American people want. And this is what all objective experts unanimously agree would be the best, and most cost effective for the American people and our economy.
In Mexico on average people who received medical care for A-H1N1 (Swine Flu) with in 3 days survived. People who did not receive medical care until 7 days or more died. This has been the same results in the US. But 50 million Americans don’t even have any healthcare coverage. And at least 200 million of you with insurance could not get in to see your private insurance plans doctors in 2 or 3 days, even if your life depended on it. WHICH IT DOES!
If President Obama has to declare a NATIONAL STATE OF EMERGENCY to rescue the American people from our healthcare crisis, he will need all the sustained support you can give him. STICK WITH HIM! He’s doing a brilliant job.
THIS IS THE BIG ONE!
THE BATTLE OF GOOD Vs EVIL!
Join the fight.
Contact congress and your representatives NOW! AND SPREAD THE WORD!
(http://action.firedoglake.com/page/s/publicoption... (http://www.actblue.com/page/healthcareheroes)
God Bless You
Jacksmith – WORKING CLASS
Regardless of whether the health care system is private or public, the wealthy will still have better access to better medical treatment. Public health care levels the playing field for low and middle income people.
I get tired of those stating the Canadian health care system is draconian and substandard with people dying in waiting rooms everyday due to lack of emergency care. It seems like all of the talk show hosts on radio & TV are suddenly experts in Canadian health care and the only Canadian 'experts' which they can find agree with them are members of the handful of private health clinics here.
I'd like to make the following horsetrade with Congress – instead of passing Obamacare, let's just offer to give each and every one of the currently uninsured Americans a one-way plain ticket to the socialized health care country of their choice. That way, they can take up residence there and no longer be uninsured, and the 250M of us remaining can continue to live our lives in peace in with a working health care system. I guarantee you that even if it does add to the deficit initially, the program's costs will not continue to cause deficit spending in the years to come.
Tort reform could be as simply as mandating a loser pays all system. When the suit is settled out of court, both lawyers get paid, and both parties lose. When a doctor eats cost under DRM as you mention and has to carry a malpractice insurance of 200K or more per year, that's a lot of cost that gets passed on to the rest of us in order for the doctor and the hopsitals to stay afloat.
Just as one 65-year-old, average-health Canadian I would like to wish all of you in the United States the best in choosing a health-care system that works for you and is the finest for you and that reflects your concerns as individuals and as a nation. I do wish you the best, I'm sure we all do. But please, many of us wish you wouldn't build your hopes and desires for a fine health-care system for your country largely by denigrating what we have in other countries. We, it might surprise you, are largely happy with our health care system. I know I am. Could it be better? Yep! Might you find complaints with it? Yep! But I and many I know personally have lived with it since its inception and are very, very happy with it.. The hardware? Maybe it could be better, I don't know. Same with some of the political policies. But folks I'll tell you one thing, I am very, very proud of every person I've met who has been connected with our health care system, as a patient and as a taxpayer. If you have good people (and you do), then you will have a good system. But please, let us enjoy the one we have and have had for many decades.
If they made that mandatory and someone showed up on my doorstep to try it, I'd dictate their new plan … with my gun.
The speech writer is finding more eloquent ways of saying "I Won."
The new plantation of Obama.
Rather than moving dysfunctional America off the welfare state, as we did with welfare reform in 1996, we are now moving the free, functioning, and once prosperous part of our nation onto the welfare state.
http://www.urbancure.org/default.asp
Excellent article! The Government can not and will not provide fair health care. Only the elite who can afford better or with influence will receive better care. This is not freedom. People should be free.
It defies logic and experience that we will save money and deliver better health care by expanding government control and spending.
Pharmaceutical firms and insurance firms like the idea of new expanded taxpayer subsidized markets.
The AMA has come out in support of the House bill with a government plan. What happened? The House agreed to get rid of planned cuts in doctor's Medicare reimbursements.
Halfway into 2009, Americans have turned more control of their lives over to government and politicians than ever before in history.
This proposed health care reform, through subsidies and expansion of Medicaid, would put tens of millions of new Americans on welfare. The result is predictable. Many more citizens with incentives to stay poor and dependent.
The rest of us will transfer a major part of our freedom to manage our own private lives over to bureaucrats.
I'm praying for a miracle that will wake up a slumbering nation
Health Care and Health Insurance are terms used to muddy the waters. No one in America is denied health care no matter financial circumstances. Those who don't have have health insurance–1/3 make $50k+, 1/3 are eligible for Medicare/Medicaid but can't figure out the forms, 1/3 are illegal immigrants. And for this we have to collapse the system?!
Where's the GOP plan? I know they have at least one but msm is not letting it out. Tons of "other ways to go" in this health insurance debate.
"We can't afford the politics of delay and defeat when it comes to health care," Obama said
Translation: Its my way or the highway.
Right or wrong, just get it done before Congress goes on vacation.
Now that is change that we can believe in.
Change for the worse.
If the American health system is so great, why is the United States ranked 50th in life expectancy among all nations? Canada's healthcare system may not be perfect, but the stories I hear on here are greatly exaggerated. If you compare lawsuits in each country, I'm sure the United States would have a lot more suits against medical professionals than Canada.
As a Canadian, it offends me to see our country continuously put down by political commentators. The fact is that Canadians are known for trying to help each other out, and we don't mind that some of our tax dollars go to helping our fellow citizens.
I haven't time tonight to read what others are saying, so sorry if this is a repeat thought.
I rarely hear such honesty about health care. This piece is brutal, but true. Virtue can only come from freely choosing to do good, not from force. Further, the remarks about wealthy getting better care is right on. Freedom isn't free, and neither is healthcare. Thank you Mr. Phillips for being so honest!
…and even more Dems having "second thoughts"
Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL)
Fax: 202-228-2183
716 Senate Hart Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: 202-224-5274
Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE)
Fax: 202-228-0012
720 Hart Senate Office Building
United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510
Tel: (202) 224-6551
Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA)
Fax: 202-224-9735
328 Hart Senate Building
United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510
(202)224-5824
Senator Kent Conrad (D-ND)
530 Hart Senate Office Building
United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510-3403
Phone: (202) 224-2043
Here are more wavering Dems being targeted by the socialist HuffPo asses
Senator Blanche Lincoln (D-AR)
Fax: 202-228-1371
355 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
(202) 224-4843
Senator Tom Carper (D-DE)
Fax: 202-228-2190
United States Senate
513 Hart Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: (202) 224-2441
Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA)
Fax: 202-228-0514
511 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
202-224-3441
Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR)
Fax: 202-228-2717
223 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510-3703
Phone: (202) 224-5244
Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL)
Fax: 202-228-2183
716 Senate Hart Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: 202-224-5274
ft…
Read up the Obama's healthcare plan. It covers all things you mentioned except for tort reform. In fact, buying into proposed govt health plan will be an option in case you do not want to get private insurance.
BTW, Fed govt employees get insurance from private insurers. Get your facts straight.
Sorry, you need to get your facts straight. Yes, the government employees get their insurance from private insurance, and a sweet package it is, too, at a very low cost to the employee. They'll not be included in Obama's Snake Oil Rationing Plan. My point is to put all of us on THEIR plan so we can be included.
Read the plan, yourself. What's in there (page 16, I believe) is that pvt ins. companies WILL NOT BE ALLOWED to enroll NEW MEMBERS. Duh! What do you think will happen to a company that cannot take in new business as older customers/clients go to other plans or expire? The company can no longer afford to pay out because the premiums coming in are too small. Bankrupt. No more company, no more plan.
Most people believe they're going to get American health care at English and Canadian prices, i.e. free.
They are convinced (as they're convinced Communism won't be done RIGHT until WE do it) they'll have the same chemo if they get cancer, the same MRI to dx their brain tumor and they'll have all his extra money — that which they spend on health care — to buy new toys and take vacations. Maybe they're right, the new toys being over the country nostrums because their name hasn't come up on the chemotherapy list (try some saw palmetto for your prostate cancer) and perhaps trips (vacations) to India or Mexico to get their gall bladder out. This plan is a disaster for all those not in government.
This is the argument I love the most. What the United States has is the best health care capability. It is very far from having the best health care. Sorry…as someone who was born and raised in Canada, and still has family and friends in Canada, I would tell you most of what you are hearing about Canada's health care system is wrong. I do not know a single person who has every waited for urgent care. If you listen to the media in this country you get a picture of a bunch of sick Canadians standing in a soup line. Take a look at world rankings on heath and health care….the US is far down that list it is shameful.
I don't know that Obama's plan is right….I am anything but an Obama fan…but I can tell you the system as it is in the United States is a joke around the world…except of course if you are in the United States.
[...] In May of 2004 the New York Times published an article entitled “Health Care Leads Other Issues in Canadian Vote.” The substance of the article was that in the elections that were upcoming, the future of the Canadian health care system was the predominate issue. On the one side were liberals seeking to reverse the trend of privatizing diagnostic services and increase federal aid to provincial governments. On the otheRead more at http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jphillips/2009/07/20/usa-vs-canada-the-healthcare-debate/ [...]
Only 6 feet?
Why stop there?
[...] C Phillips writes an excellent post at Big Hollywood addressing the health care issue (it’s a comparison between Canada’s system and ours [...]
I am a Canadian, proud of it, and very happy with the health care in Canada. You are being snowed by all the bullshit you are fed daily by lying assholes with agendas that do not benefit anyone but the ones that support the agenda. I as a single male with income of 60k per year pay $53 per month for my health care. I have a doctor that I can get an appointment for any reason within 48 hours. He has sent me for an MRI within 4 days. No procedure has been denied, lotterized or any of the crazy stories you hear. Most of the canadians you see with tales of horror, are paid for their story, and is fiction, which most Americans, I am sad to say, believes on a regular basis. Your medical associations have an agenda, they will not be able to rape your bank accounts any more and they will lie cheat and steal to retain that privelege.
What utter rot. It's not perfect here north of the border, but it is not nearly so dreadful as the ill-informed make it out to be. I know of no-one who has had to wait 2 years to obtain a family doctor. To use a personal example, my husband was diagnosed with lung cancer, he met with a specialist within the week, was operated on a few days later. Because the cancer was caught at such an early stage, there was no need for chemo, etc. He is cancer free, and this was all dealt with from start to finish (finish being leaving the hospital) within a month. He sees his specialist every six months and all is fine. It cost nothing out of pocket. AND we could certainly have afforded to go to Sloan or some other fine hospital in the States, but no need, as Princess Margaret Hospital in Toronto is a world class hospital specializing in cancer. Certainly, there is a form of triage in our health care system, so, cancer will take precedence over non-life threatening illness, but no-one goes bankrupt because of hospital/doctor costs.
I agree, the health care debate now taking place in America has almost nothing to do with real health care. It's simply a proxy for the eternal quest of the left: supremacy of the state at the expense of the individual.
No one on God's green earth has a "right" to some one else's property.
No disrespect intended, but try telling that to Liam Neeson and his sons.
It's too expensive, debate is not allowed on the subject, it's being bum-rushed through, and there are less-expensive and better alternatives to cover the uninsured. Tort-reform SHOULD BE part of the discussion. Mitigating the illegal alien-effect on costs should be part of the discussion. But they are not. These are even more reasons the Obamacare plan is to be mistrusted, avoided and killed in Congress.
Mr. Phillips, and all of you reply-ers…
I don't know what I enjoy more: Joseph's article, or the brilliant and bold and resistant replies that his article evoked. It is very encouraging to see so many people, expressing views that are so aligned with mine. Man! That is heartening.
So much so, that I almost hope President O actually keeps on pressing the issue. Let him bring on this Health Care Reform Bill. Let's fight it out, mano a mano.
Keep up the good work, everyone. And, keep the energy level up.
Cj
[...] Phillips makes the case against Obamacare from a different perspective: I must remember to share this article with my friend Bryan. Bryan is a cancer survivor. I have had [...]
The issue with any positive perception of Canadian health care is that when you scratch a little off the surface you realize that regardless of how efficient it may or may not be. . . it is unsustainable. Effectively collapsing under it's own budget weight.
[...] diagnostic services and increase federal aid to provincial governments. On the otheRead more at http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jphillips/2009/07/20/usa-vs-canada-the-healthcare-debate/ Tags: (VIDEO), Andrews, Erin, Peep, the « erin andrews video peep pictures >> [...]
[...] Townhall.com: Americans Are Against the Health Care Proposal Joseph C. Phillips, Big Hollywood: U.S.A. vs. Canada: The Healthcare Debate Jim Treacher’s Blog That Is on the Internet: Under Obamacare, old people will have to stop [...]
[...] Townhall.com: Americans Are Against the Health Care Proposal Joseph C. Phillips, Big Hollywood: U.S.A. vs. Canada: The Healthcare Debate Jim Treacher’s Blog That Is on the Internet: Under Obamacare, old people will have to stop [...]
[...] Townhall.com: Americans Are Against the Health Care Proposal Joseph C. Phillips, Big Hollywood: U.S.A. vs. Canada: The Healthcare Debate Jim Treacher’s Blog That Is on the Internet: Under Obamacare, old people will have to stop [...]
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