George Tiller, Abortion, and Moral Clarity
by Joseph C. Phillips
The fact that those of us opposed to abortion find the work of late term abortionist George Tiller perverse and immoral does not mean that we give sanction to his assassination – either overtly or privately.
Scott Roeder, Tillers alleged killer, is misguided — and according to the New York Daily News, mentally ill. He is a man that has gone to great lengths to set back a cause he held so dear. Pro-abortion activists on the left have long accused the membership ranks of the pro-life movement as being filled with religiously rabid hypocrites and domestic terrorists, and of being part of a growing cadre of right wing extremists. Roeder’s lack of moral clarity has now provided them with a poster child. Just as the pro-life movement was winning converts and making legal headway with passionate, but reasoned and civil arguments against the practice of abortion, Roeder steps forward to tear down what had taken decades to build. He deserves our scorn (and pity) as much as Tiller. Murder is wrong. Roeder must be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and if found guilty he must be punished.
In fact, it is our collective inability to bring such moral clarity to the entire issue of abortion that has led to the deep cultural divisions and produced the kind of violence that killed Tiller.
It is also further indication of just how out of sync our moral clocks have become that those of us that abhor the practice of abortion must work overtime to distance ourselves from Roeder, while those on the other side of the debate are under no similar pressure to distance themselves from the depravity of Tiller. Indeed they have used the occasion of Tillers death to point an accusing finger at Anti-abortion activists and wrap themselves in the cloak of righteousness.
It is only moral ambiguity that allows the death of one doctor to indict an entire cause while the death of millions of children remains rather unremarkable.
The one concession we have heard from the new left on abortion is that they wish to discourage the practice (in fact we heard similar rhetoric from President Obama immediately prior to his reversal of U.S. policy on overseas abortions thus ensuring that in spite of his stated desire there will be MORE abortions during his administration; but I digress). What remains unclear is why? If abortion is not murder, if it is not immoral and unhealthy; if what is sucked out of a woman’s womb is in fact only a blob of tissue, why would we wish to discourage it? Do we also wish to “discourage” tonsillectomies? Or is the wish to discourage abortion made precisely because deep in the abortionist heart there is the recognition that what is carried in the womb is more than a blob of tissue, but is in fact a human life? If it is wrong why do we not treat it as such? No doubt Scott Roeder and those of similar imprudent tendencies will be happy to hear that we only wish to “discourage” the killing of abortionists.
The sad truth is that in spite of all the talk the same folks that are intent on regulating everything that we put into out bodies from tobacco to Grape Soda are not willing to put the same energy into discouraging abortion. In fact they seem to do everything in their power from fighting parental notification and prohibitions against partial birth abortions to encourage it. Moreover, not only did the political left embrace Tiller as a brother in arms, accepting campaign cash by the truckload and protecting him from prosecution, in his death they have eulogized him as a hero for women’s health. Cecile Richards, President of Planned Parenthood, described Tiller as “a hero to those seeking help in the most desperate of situations.” That is rather like suggesting that Sherriff Jim Clark was a hero for civil rights. During testimony published by the Pro-life Action League’s Luhra Tivis, a former employee of the good doctor’s says, “Out of those two dozen [8 and 9 month pregnant women] a week, only about 2 percent had medical deformities. I thought I was pro-choice back then, but week after week I kept seeing these women coming in with healthy babies.” According to records from Tillers practice some of the “desperate situations” offered as pretext for the murder of these healthy children were: needing to go to a prom, the desire to go to a rock concert and depression. Talk about being out of sync.
Resolving the question of abortion will only come with moral clarity. Consistency must be demanded of those on both sides of the debate.
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117 Comments
"In fact, it is our collective inability to bring such moral clarity to the entire issue of abortion that has led to the deep cultural divisions and produced the kind of violence that killed Tiller."
You hit the nail on the head with that statement. Tiller and the pro abortion lobby have so cheapened life that we see the ramifications of their beliefs throughout our society. No longer are we created in the image of God with a divine purpose for our lives. Now we are expendible and our value depends upon external factors – such as whether a mother wants the child or whether we will be a productive member of society. Unless we return to the traditional view that men and women are created in the image of God with a divine purpose, violence will increase not decrease.
I am so glad that Big HOLLYWOOD is giving up on Hollywood and has decided to become the abortion website. Why don't we raise money for Roeder's defense? He's a great man!
*Eye roll* Next time, read the post before you comment. It helps.
"Why don't we raise money for Roeder's defense? He's a great man!"
What has that poor straw man ever done to you to deserve such a thrashing?
Did you even read the post? I only ask because you appear to be totally ignorant of the fact that no one is supporting Roeder or his actions here. I challenge you to point to any part of the post that justifies and/or supports Roeder or his actions.
"In fact, it is our collective inability to bring such moral clarity to the entire issue of abortion that has led to the deep cultural divisions and produced the kind of violence that killed Tiller."
Sorry, man, but I'm not really with you on this one. It's all of our fault?
Unless you're wanting to charge Kathleen Sibelius as an accessory before the fact, as it was her obstructionist practice as governor-for-hire that allowed Tiller to continue murdering viable infants in violation of existing Kansas law, thereby setting the stage for Roeder's ultimately predictable action. Knew or should have known? They'd probably never get a conviction, but at least they could embarrass her publicly.
Picture that baby at the top of your page with a pair of scissors sticking out of its head. Engage that with some meaningful debate.
"It is also further indication of just how out of sync our moral clocks have become that those of us that abhor the practice of abortion must work overtime to distance ourselves from Roeder, while those on the other side of the debate are under no similar pressure to distance themselves from the depravity of Tiller. Indeed they have used the occasion of Tillers death to point an accusing finger at Anti-abortion activists and wrap themselves in the cloak of righteousness."
Out of sync seems to be an understatement, doesn't it. Excellent article.
Oh….and that baby in the picture is so cute!
Tiller shouldn't have been murdered, just like he shouldn't have murdered those innocent unborn babies.
But what really amazes me is that the left will applaud the tactics of people like those whackos on the show Whale Wars at the same time as being so appalled by Tiller's death. If people kill whales they deserve anything up to and including death. But if they kill unborn humans then they deserve nothing less than being called a hero (and some on the left do call him that).
Now which side of the aisle has it backwards?
It had been over a decade since any abortion murders had occurred in this country, but the MSM acts as if this is an ongoing trend that is supported by anyone who is pro-life. And the marginalization continues.
I can't wrap my head around the mindset that thinks it's okay to kill a baby in-utero when it can clearly live outside the womb. I'm not even talking about first term abortions here. I'm talking about the ones where there should not be any moral ambiguity. But that does not mean I condone the murder of a doctor who performs the atrocity of a late-term abortion. I like to think that I hang on to my moral clarity.
What "legal headway" have we made since 1973? There were laws in every State, laws which were created by the people and their elected officials. Everything we've done politically since Roe has been simply to break even, and I can't even think of one thing we've achieved that the activist judges haven't immediately overturned. (And yes, I would like a list if you come up with one.)
Kipling –
Interesting that we'd cite the same passage to support completely opposite views, even though we (apparently) fall in on the same side in the abortion debate.
Well, I don't justify or support Roeder; I just don't really care all that much that he did it. He should pay the full price for his action under the existing body of law, but then, so should have Tiller.
An excellent post by a good writer who writes with clarity and conviction.
Whichever side of the abortion debate one comes down on, the equating of all pro-lifers with one nut case is disingenuous and straight out of Alinksy's "Rules for Radicals".
I've lamented that fact for years. Just imagine some nut going around sneaking into zoos, aborting animal fetuses. These lefties would be ready to execute him (literally) on the spot. And while I agree that would be reprehensible and sick for someone to do to animals, these same people see no problem whatever murdering unborn humans. Once again, liberals speak with forked tongues.
Before ANYONE condemns Scott Roeder, you absolutely have to picket abortions clinics a few times to feel the gravity of what is taking place INSIDE the clinics. It's heavy. It will change you to do this very little protest. Passerbys in cars try to scare you by swerving to act like they want to run over you and display obscene hand gestures and yell obscenities. Now after you participate in that activity a few times, then try digging out discarded babies from the garbage and piece them together to give them a proper burial. After all that, you might feel a little differently how you would treat someone who performs abortions.
If the unborn are not protected, none of us are protected.
Abortion clinics: women go in as mothers and come out as murderers.
"It is only moral ambiguity that allows the death of one doctor to indict an entire cause while the death of millions of children remains rather unremarkable."
Says it all!!
Roeder steps forward to tear down what had taken decades to build.
Correct. Every day millions of conservative minded people protest abortion through non violent ways. Those actions, for the most part, go unheralded. However, let one person go off of the deep end as this man did, and all anti abortion people are now fear mongerers.
Here is a thought. As Scott Roeder goes through the legal process, will the ACLU fight to get him off? Will the left try to find a lenient judge to reduce his sentence? Will the rest of us push for the needle?
This trial will be very interesting to watch how the two sides weigh in.
I read it differently than you. What I thought he meant was that when you have so many people who aren't seeing anything wrong with abortion, then the message has still not been articulated in a way that gets through to people. The Left has frankly done a better job of getting their message out that abortion is no big deal. Just a bunch of tissue. I know a lot of reasonably intelligent people who put the blinders on to the ethical implications of abortion and hide behind the it isn't really a person defense. Maybe it isn't our fault that people are not being reached but clearly they have been impacted by the debate from the other side.
When I was in college, the attitude toward abortion was shockingly casual and that's an absolute reflection of how successful the Left has been in taking away the horror of the act. So how do we change the apathetic attitude of the pro-choice crowd? Showing them pictures of dead babies hasn't worked so far– it's just gotten us branded as whack-jobs and extremists. Personally, that's what I think Joseph was trying to say.
At least It wasn't Carrie Prejean related. Thats like 48 hours in a row without a feature article.
I think what you said is very well thought out and true. I guess what I take exception to is the "our collective inability" part. I really have no problem viewing this subject with moral clarity.
What's all the shouting about this Bum Tiller . How much Moral Clarity does one need to know that to crush the skull and suck the brains out of viable babies is Wrong. If this Mengele wannabe would have been a Doctor in the SS in 1945 and caught at his vile murderous work .He would have been Hanged with the rest of those obscenities and the World would have Cheered. I have Two Words for the Tillers of this World and those that defend them and it's not Merry Christmas.
I agree Kelly.
I volunteered as a sidewalk counselor and have been beaten, had rocks thrown at me, water hoses, harassed by cops, and had the guns of abusive police and angry men pointed in my face, simply for trying to hand information to the mothers!
It's easy to talk about it when your only experience is from blogs and forums.
Those actions, for the most part, accomplish nothing. Sorry, but Roeder hasn't torn anything down because nothing has been built.
We've lost this debate, and if God is still in the judging business America is going to be found wanting.
They have to crush the skull prior to removal of the unwanted "tissue". If mom got stretched out too much she might as well just go ahead and have the kid and put it up for adoption.
Sorry people. Some of you are trying to be all reasoned and compassionate about this thing. I'm through with it. What Tiller was doing is sick. It should have been stopped. It could have been stopped under existing Kansas law. The system turned a blind eye to it for nothing more than contributions to a liberal governor's re-election campaign. The Kansas Attorney General tried to prosecute and got fired for it.
Now Tiller is dead. Boo freaking hoo.
Go ahead and give me your drive-by thumbs down.
Mr. Phillips, meet Mr. Gutfield, your fellow blogger here at Big Hollywood: http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggutfeld/2009/0...
Don't stop at the article, either. Read the concurring readers comments at the end who offered support for Mr. Gutfield's position.
I will say it again, as I stated in my response to the Gutfield entry – the Tiller murder is a serious setback for those who oppose abortion, and the surprising gains that the anti-abortion movement has made quietly in the last decade. It is bad enough the liberal media is tainting the entire movement with this action, but we have individuals in our conservative camp who openly turn a blind eye to vigilante justice, cold blooded murder at a church where the doctor was a deacon. Is this the moral clarity you are looking for? Good luck, GOP.
OK, I'm not turning a blind eye. Were I to be seated on Roeder's jury I'd convict. He should pay the full price for his action. In fact, he should have been willing to pay the full price for his action at the murder site, and running away not only shows him to have been a coward, it completely invalidates his insanity defense.
That having been said, the anti-abortion movement has made no gain whatsoever when an otherwise conservative state like Kansas can become the late-term abortion capital of the country under the protective watchcare of a liberal governor, and when the duly elected district attorney tries to prosecute Tiller under existing Kansas law he's removed from office by popular vote.
Wake up.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. But you obviously are not heeding that advice.
I still haven't seen how it's a "setback" for those who oppose abortion. We haven't gotten anywhere in terms of legislation. We didn't like the partial-birth abortion, so our legislature banned it, only to be rejected by the courts.
The GOP is nearly as bad as the Democrats. The GOPers run on being pro-life which only means they'll vote for pro-life legislation if it comes across their desk, but they don't really work that hard to further the cause.
The Left is majorly PO'd about Tiller because he was one of a very select few who were degenerate, vile, and wicked enough to perform this most "sacred rite" of the altar of evil on earth. Yes, that's what it amounts to- a form of child sacrifice, upon the 'altar' of convenience. They could care less that the man Tiller was killed; they are upset at the symbology of the loss. An institution was damaged, and they won't stand for that.
"amazes me is that the left will applaud the tactics of people like those whackos on the show Whale Wars at the same time"
once upon a time, we use to call that Piracy
sqt, there is a pervasive misconception I found on the left that late term abortions are rare and only in extreme cases like profound deformities or other issues that would preclude a baby from living outside the womb. This is not just not true and this is the issue that should be at the top of the list.
It isn't a "setback" in the sense that any of our legislative gains are in danger of being compromised. It's a "setback", I guess, in that it reinforces the negative image that predisposed liberals have of us neanderthal pro-lifers anyway.
I can live with that.
Oh, and with the exception of Breyer, all the liberal pro-abortion justices on the Supreme Court were nominated by REPUBLICAN Presidents (Ford, Reagan, and GHW Bush.) The GOP has worked out soooo well for the pro-life movement.
You are so right, It was becomming her personal message board.
I am curious as to how much violence has to be perpetrated on the unborn or born before we draw the line as to what is acceptable.? If it is amped up to the point that after birth it is OK to kill the baby because it is deformed or not the right sex (which is done all too often in the womb), is that too much? I would never advocate vigilante justice. However, violence breeds violence. I very rarely read or hear anyone condemn the violonce that is done against the unborn child. What is the right formula for a people to rise up against a culture that has little regard for the unfborn, the aged, and the infirm? I'm becoming more confused with the arguments on both sides.
I think the majority of pro-choicers don't REALLY understand what it is they're supporting. They won't look at photos of aborted fetuses (and I warn anyone that does: Look with caution. You can't unsee it), the won't listen to the testimonies of women who deeply regret their abortions, they dismiss recorded conversations with planned parenthood workers saying, "sure, you can make a donation that will only go to abort black babies" etc.
Abortionists and their staff are another story. I'm confident deep down they know better than anyone involved on either side of the issue that it's not a blob of tissues or a simple procedure or good for women's health.
Murder is unacceptable. I don't even support the death penalty. And this has set the pro-life movement back at least a decade. But Roeder murdered one person, Tiller murder 60,000.
None of the 60,000 had the blood of innocents on their hands.
I must agree with how vile this Tiller was and all to make a huge amount of money off the death of countless babies. You can call the "murder" of Tiller a set back, you can call it wrong, call it what you will, but at this point the the ole Doc can murder no more. He should have been stopped year after year, but was allowed to continue his murder of innocent babies. Babies with no voice, no one to help them, to stand for them, they have no voice, no way to fight back. The master of late term abortions is no longer; he should have remembered, "YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW!"
Read some stuff about the abolitionist John Brown. The man who shot Tiller and his fanatical bretheren come that same clothe. Hearts are in the right place however they lost their morality when they embraced violence. But do some digging, John Brown and his career is very revealing.
I don't know that Roeder set back the pro-life movement, nor do I know that he lacks moral clarity. I do know that he asked me for fifty dollars, I'd give it to him.
historically speaking, abortionists have always met grim fates; it is considered a black art by almost all medical practitioners, and executed by very few. For a reason-
It's ultimately a violation of the Hippocratic Oath. Only recently, with the advent of secular humanism has it become even remotely respectable. But his was a crime against humanity, and humanity of the most innocent type… he paid the price, and now stripped of his worldly goods, he must do Satan's bidding…
Joseph makes a very good point in discussing how abortion proponents frequently proclaim that we should work to reduce the number of abortions. I'm embarrassed to say that this bizarre proclamation has only recently dawned on me. Joseph compares the statement to reducing the number of tonsillectomies. But to me, there is perhaps a better comparison(s).
Do gay rights activists advocate for gay marriage, while expressing wishes that the practice be minimized? Do advocates of legalized marijuana do so while working to ensure as few people as possible smoke it? What other issue can claim rights advocates, many of whom simultaneously think that right should be exercised as infrequently as possible?
This inconsistency has been tugging on my brain lately…
Isn't there something in Lowbama's healthcare bill that will force doctors to perform abortions, and if they refuse, their license will be pulled?
[...] George Tiller, Abortion, and Moral Clarity by Joseph C. Phillips [...]
Given that the "pro-life" movement and it's various attendant permutations were already grounded firmly in the 19th Century, exactly where has it been "set back" to now? The 18th? Colonial Times?
Grounded how?
I'm a Democrat. That's a cute baby. How the hell did Tiller miss it. Let's kill it.
Obama is my lord and savior!
The preceding was just a joke into the sick minds of Democrats.
I'm a libertarian who believes first-trimester abortions should remain legal. I also think what Tiller was did (third-trimester abortions) was infanticide. That said, I agree that Roeder should be harshly punished for his actions, just as Tiller should have been punished via the legal system for his crimes.
Yes, I already know a lot of the social conservatives on here disagree with my stance on abortion. Make no mistake, though–the left will gleefully use Roeder's actions, and every other means at their disposal, to crush all schools of thought on the right.
I dont think the Tiller killing was right or just…I do not lose sleep over it though. I have no sympathy for him, only his family. I feel for the lives that never were, the joys that never came and the smiles that were never seen. That is something to mourn
I never understood why there was no public debate or info from mainstream media on late-term abortion. I mean no books, documentaries, no info on what the politicians were voting on, no information at all…
Its indefensible, that's why.
You would think that after being shot twice in the arms years ago would have been enough to deter him. But I guess the money was too much to walk away from. Or pride, or both.
This nation was born of broken law and bloodshed and the moral clarity of it can be found in the Declaration of Independence. And if you peruse it, as I'm sure most college graduates and professors, even the professor President of ours, never have, you might find moral clarity in Mr. Roeder's action.
Agreed, that is one adorable baby!
You are correct.
If the public actually understood what "late term" abortion was they would oppose it. That's why there's no real public debate.
Ditto the "health of the mother" argument.
Here's a challenge for someone: list a single real medical condition where the forced passage of 10 pounds of tissue through the birth canal is less traumatic to the host than the removal of the same amount of tissue via C-section.
There is none. I checked with my doctor. The difference is, after a C-section the baby might still live.
The truth about late term abortion is simply this: we promised the mother a dead baby, and by god she's getting a dead baby. Psychologically, she may be scarred otherwise.
Of course, that doesn't address the well-documented psychological scars caused by abortion. Besides, Tiller had a payment due on his Mercedes.
I feel sorry for Tiller's kids (I assume he had some). That would be a tough thing to have to come to grips with in relation to dear old dad.
Tiller made a living off of a great evil. No doubt. But his murder was also a great evil. It is a terrible thing that American law can see only one of these things as being evil. Even tho' most pro-choicers know abortion to be wrong. Kate Michaelman, former head of NARAL even siad once, "Of course abortion is wrong." A large portion of our society has become so mind-numbingly obtuse (femi-Nazis and the sheeple that support them) that they cannot admit their folly for fear of losing all credibility.
The problem with the first trimester debate, which is completely legitimate to have, is the lack of an objective, scientifically defensible definition of 'human life'. We'd pretty much all agree that 'human life', once successfully defined, should receive protection under the law. Well, I'd like to think so anyway.
Here's something to chew on: when we die, the attending medical staff doesn't just make some subjective judgment on the lines of "well, he looks dead to me". They measure two things: heartbeat and brainwave. If you're flatlining, you're dead. Scientifically and legally.
Why not apply the same criteria we use to define the cessation of life, to objectively define the presence of life? That is, if you have a heartbeat and a brainwave pattern, welcome to the human race.
This wouldn't make the Pope happy, but we'd save a lot of lives.
I'll tell you why this is a setback. According to the AP article, there were three late term/partial birth offices including Tiller's before he was murdered. What is your guess as to where this number is headed in the next year? Yes, I know his closed, but the doctors across American who were on the fence, or didn't care one way or the other, do you think they are going to be cowed? This is America. For them, Tiller has now become a martyr for a cause.
And how about regular people deciding whether abort. is right or wrong? Are they going to now side with the crazy murderers, or the group that the media happily calls pro-choice?
I've gotten phone calls from the pro-life movement on this so it may be true. My mother-in-law works in health care, so I'll have to ask her what she's heard about it. Talk about an abuse of power.
Thanks for the info- I knew I'd heard it somewhere…
In between episodes of sexually harrassing people, Clinton appointed Ginsburg.
Here's a challenge for someone: list a single real medical condition where the forced passage of 10 pounds of tissue through the birth canal is less traumatic to the host than the removal of the same amount of tissue via C-section.
That's been my argument for awhile and yet people will still argue the point even though it's completely illogical. I had to have an emergency C-section with my daughter, and I was the one in danger– not the baby. They had baby out in less than a half an hour and we were both fine. No reason whatsoever to harm the baby.
not pride- Money, and lots of it… what's 60,000 time five grand? Some were pro bono, but most weren't.
No, this guy was a bad man. And the Lutheran church that allowed him to usher is as culpable as he, for giving him the imprimatur of God's blessing… may that church see hard times as well.
"Abortionists and their staff are another story." You are so right! I'm someone who, I now shamefully admit, had no opinion on abortion at all until I found out what they involve. Recently I completed a course in medical terminology and procedures for a certification in my own field, and what I found out absolutely changed my mind about abortion, and not just the late-term kind. After doing a bit of web research, I found that there are literally thousands of other medical professionals who feel the same way, particularly nurses, many of whom now refuse to participate.
Heck, my wife won't even let me begin to describe what a nurse does in an abortion, and I'm talking about first trimester abortions. Let's see, how to put it delicately: if you're a nurse assisting an abortion, it's your job to put all the pieces together to make sure there's none left inside. Get it? And that's not a late-term abortion I'm describing, that's a first trimester abortion.
What completely turned me against abortion is when I found out how horrifically gruesome a procedure it is. At a very early time in gestation, much earlier than most people realize, what you have is a recognizably human person, and the only way to get them out at that stage is to literally rip them limb from limb, or chemically poison them, or — well, like I said, my wife won't let me explain the whole procedure, it's just not something you can do in polite company.
I strongly believe that nobody should be murdered, even late-term abortionists, but that also applies to unborn infants. And since we're killing 1.4 million unborn infants every year in some of the most horrific ways, then I can't condone that, and I don't see how anyone in possession of a working conscience could, either.
Hmm. I mean no disrespect to your beliefs, but I have a feeling you may not know as much about first trimester abortions as you think you do. Here's a link to an explanation of how those abortions are done: http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_th...
Frankly, as I said in an earlier comment, I didn't think one way or another about abortion until I took a course in medical terminology and procedures. When I found out how horrendous a procedure first trimester abortions are, and how horrifying they are to the nurses who have to assist in those procedures, basically spending their time either counting tiny body parts (to make sure they're all out) or clearing out the suction hose from obstructions (little hands, feet and limbs), it turned me very strongly against ANY abortions, just like it has many thousands of other medical professionals.
I am also a libertarian myself and, being one, I couldn't condone the absolute rejection of the right to life of anyone, including unborn children. As a libertarian, I believe our first and most basic property right is the right to our own lives. If I don't extend that same right to any other person, then I can't, in all good conscience, expect that right for myself. And, as I used to read to my children (whom I thankfully chose NOT to abort), a person's a person no matter how small.
Sick of it, if your so displeased with the site why not find one more to your liking? Life is too short to get caught up in h8.
Something can be morally wrong and illegal yet somewhat enjoyable. Maybe this Tiller thing fits in that category.
The sad thing is that some base their thinking only on what's legal and not what's moral, ethical, or responsible. Tiller was a beast. What he did was legal and evil. For some of our liberal brothers and sisters that's good enough.
Dr. Tiller is in heaven now.
Or hate groups like the Ku Klux Klan.
Or not.
Here's something to keep in perspective.
The American public is actually more pro-life that pro-choice, a first since Roe v. Wade:
http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000010035.cfm
WORLD magazine explores this trend:
Frank Pavone of Priests for Life notes that we're seeing a "strong and ever-growing involvement of young people in all aspects of the fight to end abortion." He also points out that among older people working either in abortion businesses or pro-life centers, the flow of conversions is in one direction—from pro-abortion to pro-life.
Liberal secularists downplay such stories: It would be front page news if a pro-lifer were to repent of saving babies, but the many instances of abortion industry veterans repenting are like trees falling in the forest. (A broader measure of attitudes last month also received little attention: A Gallup Poll reported that 51 percent of Americans surveyed called themselves "pro-life" and only 42 percent "pro-choice." Gallup began asking that either-or question in 1995, and this is the first time a majority has embraced "pro-life." Ultrasound machines, pro-life pregnancy resource centers, and a generation of regret-filled women are all having an impact.)
http://www.worldmag.com/articles/15477
That's what's being missed. The MSM WANTS to focus on the Roepers of the world to make it appear that the pro-life trend is on the decline. This strategy is intended to discourage pro-lifers and those leaning in our direction.
Frankly, as a pro-lifer, I find this shift encouraging because the abortion crowd would have to cheat so hard if they were winning the PR war with the public. You know things are bad when Hollywood starts cranking out hit movies like "Juno" and "17 Again" that are pro-life.
Goldentrout,
Here is a doctor's take on the damage the healthcare bill could do to those of conscience:
http://www.worldmag.com/articles/15479
And here's Cal Thomas' commentary on the government play God with doctors' ethics:
http://www.worldmag.com/articles/14860
No one including Dr. Tiller, should be murdered. Pro-choice individuals believe that the taking of a human life can be justifiied in some cases. A nut case named Roeder just decided to show agreement with the Pro-choice argument. See where it leads us?
In one act, this hero – Scott Roeder – has actually saved more lives than ALL of the pro-life movement combined since 1973. There's moral clarity for you… It is no vice to rescue the innocent from a perpetrator.
I don't really like to say whether someone is in heaven or hell now. That's GOD's decison. But I will say this. His chances don't look too good.
Thanks!
Finally an honest conservative post. You would kill every liberal if you could get away with it. By the way, did I spit on you last weekend? Sorry if I missed, it was windy.
Actually MovieBob,
We're grounded a little further back than that. Although for the purpose of argument, we need only go back to that short document from 1776 which held that there exist inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness—in that order.
Might want to raise money to send you back to school to take some reading comprehension classes.
Then again, it would probably be a waste of money since you're likely lying.
You are mistaking "honest" with "matches anti-kin, Emo Sith's bigoted caricature" but that's hardly surprising.
It's about time that someone has honestly described what went on in Tiller's clinic and how he, and his much heralded second opinion man, defined what constitutes a threat to the life of a woman. This the the single area of routine medical reporting and tracking, even with patient personal information redacted, that the political left most fears will become public knowledge. It is the elephant in the living room anti-life activists go to great rhetorical length to make sure goes unnoticed. Is it moral choice and within a woman's individual right to decide to subject a fully formed fetus, weeks or hours from full term birth, to butchery and death for the reason's mentioned in this article and for the absurd reason's that are hidden in Tiller's records?. The vast majority of people offer a resounding NO, and for that reason, lack of clarity about what went on in that clinic is the anti-life activists last bastion of defense.
Hey www, would YOU be willing to take that chance and change places with Tiller? First of all, most liberals don't believe in a heaven. To them religion and God and belief in an existence beyond this earthly realm are for stupid people.
In the liberal eye, Tiller just cut to black, like Tony Soprano. Either way, I would not want to be Tiller right now.
"This inconsistency has been tugging on my brain lately…" well done Brian. If all of us allowed our political bias to evaporate a little and address the inconsistencies tugging at our brains and resolved them as individuals we would not be being led around like neutered sheep. It is the fundamental credo of the political left to go to any length to make sure that the population does not spend anytime contemplating moral inconsistencies. It is the single greatest threat they face. They know it and their attempts to stifle it saturates our entire culture.
It never surprises me that the Democratic party has supported slavery, Jim crow, lynching, burning black churches in the south, they broke of from the Union and started the Confederacy to continue their belief in slavery was a State rights issue. . Planned Parenthood's legacy of racism and eugenics is firmly established through its founder Margaret Sanger a Democrat. Her plan was to rid America of all blacks by abortions and sterilization. Today the Dems will lose their minds to defend a bloody killer of innocent babies under the guise of 'rights' , who is killed by a pro lifer.
I'd love these hypocrites to sell their arguments to Jefferson the founder of the Democratic party . I have no sympathy for a murderer like Tiller even with all his medical credentials. Did he ever once believe and work under the hippocratic oath?
How can a man go to work 5 days a week in a bloody room and crush the skull of living souls, day in and day out and suck the baby out in parts as if one is sweeping out a crawl space.
To me, his murder has about as much effect on me as when Paul Castellano was whacked in the streets of NY or when any other mob member is whacked. Every so often it happens, who cares, the liberals don't care about the 60,000 babies this serial abortionist Tiller killed, so who cares about him. Why should we treat him as some innocent hero. We might as well treat Stalin and Mao as innocent heroes. Oh, I forgot, liberals do treat them as heroes and yet, they despise Jefferson, Washington as slavers. I'd love for any leftist malcontent try to sell a women has the right under the constitution, to our founding fathers both slave owners and abolitionist. Don't forget John Adams was a passionate abolitionist. I wonder what Mr Adams would say about our wonderful perfect leftist utopia the liberals have tried to create. Its just those pesky little christian republicans that get in the way.
The blood of 50 million aborted American kids, is on the head of every liberal, leftist malcontent who supports this barbarous procedure. Now, we have a President, who is for the killing of a baby on the table, that survives the abortion. What's the next step? I know, whacking them when they are old and frail and become useless eaters, huh? Maybe the theme song to the Democratic party should be the Horst Wessel Lied, especially when they are sucking out tiny body parts out of a young women's womb, have it playing loud to make all the doctors feel right at home.
I have heard of fatal conditions of the baby that were discovered late in pregnancy. Hydrocephalic (water in the brain– causing an enlarged head–it is a tragic condition.) In the case I heard of, the baby was delivered and died a week later. I think this is rare and, as you said the birth process "does no harm." In fact, the mom and family peacefully parted with her child.
But why are we left with the whisperings of a few anecdotal cases here and there? Why, if this is so important, aren't the facts being trumpeted by abortionists?
The left has an agenda for permitting this under any request by mother. Now that's sick!
I'm really trying to summon some outrage over the killing of George Tiller, but I just can't do it. He was an evil man who deserved what he got. In other words, "he needed killin'". I'm sad that it was done outside the law, but that's all I'm sad about. Before I get any outraged responses, I would also ask my fellow pro-lifers to consider one hypothetical question and one historical example:
1. Would anybody be upset if some mentally unstable, religious fanatic had killed Joseph Mengele?
2. Did John Brown harm the abolitionist movement?
If I was on the jury, Roeder would be released a free man. Nearly everyone accepts the premises of the pro-abortion movement. The game has changed. Tiller was a monster. He got what he richly deserved. End of story.
The only "physician" who performed abortions in our town was a grotesque creature who flat looked evil. He was covered with scaling skin lesions particularly prominent on his face. The local DA nabbed him for sexually abusing his patients (killing them wasn't enough). When the pro-abortion crowd complained he was being persecuted the DA got a search warrant and discovered odious child pornography in his office.
Tiller was the same sort of creature. Today, no children were killed by Tiller the baby killer. The world is a much better place. I just love the effete, panty waisted, limp wristed moral exhibitionists who are offended by the killing of this creature.
Mr. Phillips,
I was happy to read your thoughts and I agree with you, wholeheartedly. You made a statement that is so true and so simple that I felt the need to comment.
You asked;
"If abortion is not murder, if it is not immoral and unhealthy; if what is sucked out of a woman’s womb is in fact only a blob of tissue, why would we wish to discourage it?"
The sad truth, that all HONEST people know and acknowledge (if not out loud, than at least in their own hearts and minds) is the fact that abortion does stop a beating heart and it does kill a baby.
The idea that some can still defend this act simply because to not do so presents too many difficult "moral" issues, shocks and saddens me on a daily basis.
When pro-abortion activists finally have the courage or honesty to admit what they knew to be true all along, I cannot imagine how they will be able to reconcile their outrage for the brutal murder of a doctor (justified) alongside the millions of murders of innocent babies that took place in no small part with their encouragement and endorsement. I pray that day comes soon.
I'm not Catholic, but Mother Teresa and the Catholics have had the moral clarity there. How we treat our unborn children truly affects what we've become as a nation and world.
The Founding Fathers of this country, among others, fought – and in many cases, gave their lives for – the rights of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" for its citizens. It makes me sad that so many of us granted our right to life seek so hard to take it away from others, simply because it's an inconvenience to grant them that life. I knew the number of women seeking late term abortions for medical reasons was low – I've seen several studies about that – but I had no idea that so many of them at Tiller's office were for recorded reasons like going to the prom or attending a concert and not wanting to be pregnant while doing it. Appalling.
The moral relativism in this society gets worse by the day.
funny how moral clarity goes out the window when you start talking about torture
Yes, and why don't you go do a picket for the release of the Unibomber, since he was a true environmenttalist? Your statement makes about much sense as that.
What do you imbibe before posting such intelligent remarks? Do you stick your tongue out at people at restaurants too? I know, it is hard to have a thought sometimes.
Nah, just a fascist like you actually. You two should go out on a date.
I will condemn Scott Roeder, since he took the law into his own hands. In fact, he became what he thought he most despised, Dr. Tiller.
You're right about those photos. But you know what's even worse? They have video out there of fetuses writhing around in horrible amounts of pain during the procedures. It's one of the worst things you'll ever see, and trust me, you won't EVER forget it.
And when they go dancing, who will lead? and will auntie let him pick up the check?
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