WSJ: ‘Draw Mohammed Day’ Equals…Flag Burning?
by John Nolte
Yesterday, the Wall Street Journal’s James Taranto waded into the “South Park” - Muhammad controversy with a column employing this title, subtitle and closing summary:
Everybody Burn the Flag
If we don’t act like inconsiderate jerks, the terrorists will have won ….The problem with the “in-your-face message” of “Everybody Draw Mohammed Day” is not just that it is inconsiderate of the sensibilities of others, but that it defines those others–Muslims–as being outside of our culture, unworthy of the courtesy we readily accord to insiders. It is an unwise message to send, assuming that one does not wish to make an enemy of the entire Muslim world.
Comparing a drawing of Mohammed to flag burning completely misses the point of the energy people have towards the idea driving a Draw Mohammed Day (which looks as though it might have been cancelled anyway on account of…something). Taranto also looks at what kind of behavior will or will not place the Muslim community outside of our culture in a fashion that leans heavily on the politically correct at the expense of logic.
When our culture is working the way it should there are no sacred cows. When our culture is firing on all cylinders we collectively take the same amount of incoming fire from our national satirists. Taranto’s belief that Muslims should receive some sort of special treatment — a unique inoculation when it comes to this sort of satire — that’s the act that puts the Muslim community outside of our culture. To be a part of our culture and community means taking the good and the bad.
If Taranto’s saying we shouldn’t offend people just to make a point, that’s an impossible standard to maintain consistently, and an especially surprising one coming from a journalist. I also reject the idea that such a protest on our part would “make an enemy of the entire Muslim world.” The Muslim world deserves a little more credit than that.
But the bottom line is that no one wants to offend Muslims. That’s not what the outrage over Comedy Central’s gutless censorship and the subsequent attraction to Draw Muhammed Day is about. If we were all about offending Muslims, we didn’t need a cartoonist to remind us to do so. It’s also worth mentioning that Christians are especially sensitive to the idea of treating all faiths equally and with respect. Not just because that’s a requirement of our own faith but because we know the sting better than most when it comes to being singled out for a pop culture thrashing. Granted, some of those shots are deserved and some are even funny. But some are not. Especially the “singled out” part, which is why Taranto’s flag burning analogy is such a bad one.
We are all allowed to burn the flag. Therefore we all share the right to make whatever statement is made through that act and offend others while doing so. Regardless of your position on the law that allows flag burning in this country, it is at least consistent.
Comedy Central, however, is not consistent. They only allow certain statements to be made about certain religions.
Again and again and again, the programming on that channel (and elsewhere in pop culture-dom) savages Christianity and with rare exception, only Christianity, especially of the evangelical sort. In other words, the unwritten rule is that it’s okay to burn the Christian flag but not the Muslim flag.
And this is what makes Trey Parker and Matt Stone special. The “South Park” creators are equal-opportunity offenders. They are to this generation what the George Carlins and Richard Pryors were to theirs: satirists who don’t believe in sacred cows; who employ their unique talents to launch biting, intelligent satire that rarely feels mean-spirited (though it can make you squirm) against any puffed-up balloon they think deserves a pin-prick. Ideology is not what drives them. They don’t even seem to be angry. Their muse is what they see as pretense, dishonesty, the very idea that something should be held up as sacred – and most importantly, making their audience laugh.
(This is a striking contrast to the partisan bully-pen made up of Jon Stewart, Bill Maher, David Letterman and whoever’s on SNL this season. These are not satarists but rather ideological warriors, Obama’s Palace Guards, disguised as entertainers.)
The energy towards Draw Mohammed Day has nothing to do with offending Muslims, it’s not even about creating gratuitously hurtful portraits of Mohammed — certainly nothing as wildly offensive as dipping a crucifix in urine (paid for with taxpayer dollars). What it is about is sticking our finger in Comedy Central’s cowardly eye and fighting for what they won’t on behalf of their own artists: The First Amendment.
On some level, we’re also standing up to the jihadists, the Muslim extremists intimidating through violence and murder anyone (including millions of innocent Muslims) who don’t live their lives according to a twisted ideology. The whole idea behind Draw Mohammed Day was never to offend the everday Muslim but rather to litter the landscape with so many fatwa-worthy targets that a fatwa becomes as impossible as counting the stars.
If you think about it, that’s a pretty good tactic. And we are at war with these fanatics, right?
Is it possible innocent Muslims will see something they rather wouldn’t during a Draw Mohammed Day? Of course it is. Just as it’s possible Christians like myself will see something we rather wouldn’t in an upcoming “South Park” episode.
But that’s the price we all pay to live in a free society. All. All of us. And paying that small price which serves a much greater good is part of being “inside our culture.”
The outsiders are the ones given the free ride.
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515 Comments
I despise the concept that Muslims are peaceful. That would be the same reason we shouldn't have attacked the Nazis, most Germans were peaceful… First, Islam means "submit"… a far cry from Shalom or the concept that if you submit to us, then there will be peace. Thusly, their peace concept.
Also, the truist form of evil, is to have 95% of your followers be enslaved, peaceful and supporting your warmachine of ideology or what have you. Thusly, of course most Muslims are peaceful, but they are enslaved to the minority who call for fatwas, call for intimidation, which thusly leads their death guard, their terrorists, their 40yr old polygamist warlords to commit young virginal men & women to martydom and terror.
The Quran, not the extreme Quran, but just the basic one, gives specific permissions to commit acts of war, terror, deception and so on, to further Islam. Where ever there is Islam, there is terror, there is a regime of control. Where ever there is Islam.
Taranto is usually pretty good but I think he doesn't understand Islam. It is not a religion of peace.It does not pretend to be a peaceful religion. The Koran is a blue print for conquering the infedels. The founder( Mohammed) was a pedofile and cravan raider.
The MSM and Left widdle away our Liberty bit-by-bit and nobody will notice until our Liberty is only a distant memory…
Either they'll join us in the 21st century, or we'll join them in the 12th.
Am I offended whenever someone makes fun of Christians on tv? Yeah, but I've decided to avoid the shows where Christian-bashing tends to make appearances. Do I wish a horrible, public death on the creators of those shows? Of course not. The price I pay for My right to free speech is that others have the same right to Their free speech.
I read Taranto's post when it came out yesterday. And I agreed with him then. Today I read your post, and for the most part I agree with you too.
A conundrum if there ever was one.
But as I think about it, despite Taranto's some what flawed analogy (here's where I agree with you), I think I have to lean with him on this one. Let's face it, the only reason the urine crucifix was done was because the tax payer sucking person claiming to be an artists knew other 'hip, cool, happening' idiots would love it specifically because it would anger Christians. That's not art, that's not making a statement, that's not contributing anythin. If you ask me, its shock jock.
But even though draw Mohamed is targeted at a different group – highlighting comedy central's lack of back bone, as well as bone headed radical religious fundamentalists – how much difference between the two is there really in the outcomes?
How about some where in between? I'm all for well thought out, well done art, as Mr. Chris Muir provided yesterday on BH. How about we limit it to work like that? Not just for the sake of drawing it, which will upset Muslims world wide, many – if not most – who never did a violent thing to anyone, but rather let's keep it classy.
Let's take the high road, and keep classy because, after all, despite what lemmings around the world say, we Americans are a class act. We can do this without sinking to the level of modern liberals sucking at the NEA's teat.
but do you wish they die screaming in pain from colon cancer?
me either
WELL I GUESS JAMES TARANTINO FORGET HOW SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE LET SKINHEAD O'CONNER COME ON THEY'RE SHOW AND DO HER LITTLE 'RIP UP THE POPE PICTURE' ROUTINE AND THEN THEY RE-BROADCAST IT AGAIN AND AGAIN. I REMEMBER 'HANOY' JANE FONDA WAS THE HOSTESS FOR THAT NIGHT'S SHOW AND SHE WAS LAUGHING HER A$$ OF WHEN SKINHEAD O'CONNER RIPPED UP THAT POPE'S PICTURE. WELL SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE HAS BEEN UP AGAINST CHRISTIANITY FOR DECADE'S, IF NOT CENTURY'S.
The 1st Amendment is critical to our Republic. If your in America, and don’t like it…get the hell out!
Please show me in Scripture where Christians are told to treat all faith equally and with respect.
Scripture is clear that we do not forcibly convert someone since a forced conversion is hardly a conversion at all. In his ministry on earth, Jesus always presented Christianity as a choice and told His listeners to count the cost before they made a decision. He did not, nor did any of the apostles, advocate force as a tool for evangelism.
On the other hand, Scripture is also clear that all other religions are false. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6) True Christianity is not that all ways lead to God because Jesus shut that option down. Paul and Daniel both state that false religions are advanced by demons to lead people astray. Not much room for equality or respect for other religions in Scripture.
As a Christian I know what I believe and I am free to challenge other religions in the arena of ideas. They are free to challenge mine as well. That is the true meaning of intellectual freedom.
I usually agree with Taranto but he's wrong here.
"The problem with the “in-your-face message” of “Everybody Draw Mohammed Day” is not just that it is inconsiderate of the sensibilities of others, but that it defines those others–Muslims–as being outside of our culture, unworthy of the courtesy we readily accord to insiders."
What he's missing is that it's the Muslims that want to be outside our culture, not the other way around. In fact, their religion demands that it be so. There is no separation of church and state in Islam. For Muslims, the church is the state and a true Muslim cannot give allegiance to both.
I have no probem with intellectual satire. I do however despise the palace guards you mentioned. To their ranks I would add the Family Guy show. Instead of engaging their subjects with anything approaching intellect they try to demean and humiliate them. They ridicule and degrade which is really the basist form of demagoguery. They misrepresent, distort, and simply lie about those they wish to demean. It contributes nothing to the debate and is often simply an ad homineum attack.
Somebunny sums up your first question but your wrap up sentence…
"They are free to challenge mine as well. That is the true meaning of intellectual freedom."
…is EXACTLY what I'm saying, the point of my whole column. Taranto is the one arguing with that point. All I'm saying is that as we engage in that intellectual freedom we need to do so respectfully — you know, do unto others….
1 of 2
Is it possible that Comedy Central's lawyers just warned the show off because if Muslims while trying to murder Parker & Stone kill bystanders? Can the show's producers be sued?
"The problem with the “in-your-face message” of “Everybody Draw Mohammed Day” is not just that it is inconsiderate of the sensibilities of others, but that it defines those others–Muslims–as being outside of our culture, unworthy of the courtesy we readily accord to insiders.”
This problem with this logic is if you don't believe in the First Amendment, you are, in fact, outside our culture and if you are enforce your "outsiders" rules with violence, you are unworthy of the courtesy we accord to insiders.
2 of 2
As usual, Taranto's leftist words shift the argument from the legal issue, First Amendment, to how we feel.
Back in the 80s I worked for about a month or so on the Ellis Island restoration. The Statue of Liberty was right there, right next to Ellis – and it hit me. Expressions of two of the most prominent, often contradictory, American ideologies were staring me in the face. The Statue represented freedom and the Island stood for multiculturalism. The lesson I walked away with was that multiculturalism. was a subordinate Johnny-come-lately, trumped by the already established, more primal symbol: Lady Liberty.
Exactly. There's a big difference between SP and those others. We're all intelligent people who understand the difference between what they do. And FAMILY GUY is certainly a part of that.
To "love your neighborh" does not mean you have to accept his beliefs and treat them on a level with your own. It may mean that your respect his decision to follow after another god but it does not mean you have to accept that decision as correct.
Scripture must be read in the context of Scripture. Did Jesus love his neighbors when he fashioned a whip and drove those neighbors (merchants and money changers) from the temple? Did Jesus love his neighbors when he refered to those neighbors (religious leaders) as "white washed tombs"? Jesus, meek and mild, spoke and acted boldly against those who exploit people. Jesus never defined love as the acceptance of evil or a compromise with it.
Wouldn't it be interesting to get to a more normal argument of the two pics of Mohammed that Nolte shows (thanks John Nolte)?
IMHO, it appears that in the first the prophet looks to be much too white without features that display his true splendor, namely his black DNA. This is an outrage obviously perpetuated by racist ,whiter than average Muslims.
but this is just the tip of the iceberg… ridiculing, satire, criticizing, questioning, EVERYTHING that is not submitting to… offends them.
I think we agree more than we disagree. My concern is that Christians often adopt a form of moral relativism in that they will not stand up and proclaim their beliefs. Our culture has driven many of them underground and they accept the adage that all ways lead to god which is clearly not taught by Scripture.
You can respect a person and still disagree with the choices they make and the beliefs they adopt. You challenge those beliefs and choices. In a way that is what separates us from the left. We respond with criticism of their beliefs and ideology and they respond with charges of racism, etc.
I wonder what the Muslim view on religious tolerance is:
"And the Jews say: Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!" Sura 9:30
You are acting like love and justice are two different things. You are seemingly giving in to our society's religion of moral relativism. Yes, you can love someone and confront evil in them at the same time. That's what makes the gospel so unique.
The muslims want to use OUR FREEDOMS against us… free speech is one of our basci rights and this story pushed the nevelope a little.. I guess being that Organization of the Islamic Conference wants us to stay away from a line and ultimately take one of our basic rights away from us. This is a right that we have been given to us and thanks to the people that defended our rights…The Muslims have extremists just like any other group out there, we need to have OUR RIGHTS AS WELL IN OUR COUNTRY…these people make the liberals inthis country bend over backwards for them… then our SO-CALLED LEADER apologizes for our transgressions in the past.,..what about what they have done to this world and NOW OUR freedom of speech is being put to the test…. go away, and leave this great country alone… we do not need any more people and there WORLDLY CULTURES….
Previous post was written before reading this one. Yes, agreed. But that means we also have to be bold in our assertion of what true love is (as opposed to moral relativism). Without desired justice over evil there cannot be true love. And just because we disagree or challenge does not mean that we do not love!
Text in all caps is very hard to read. Please consider using proper sentence capitalization instead.
Exactly my point. In fact, to challenge is often to show love. Which is the greater love, to confront error with the truth or to allow error to proceed unchallenged?
“Not just for the sake of drawing it, which will upset Muslims worldwide, many – if not most – who never did a violent thing to anyone, but rather let's keep it classy. "
I don't believe that most Muslims have ever done nothing violent to anyone. First off, there are all sorts of stats like this one: in Pakistan 1 in 4 husbands are never prosecuted for killing his wife.
Next time you see adolescent kids in film, especially in documentaries in which nothing is staged, take a look in their eyes. Those children are suspicious and hateful. Somebody has beat the crap out of them. Pics of Afghanistan kids are the one exception.
Further, the next time you drive past your local mosque, stop a few minutes and ask the Muslims coming out what they think of the Bill of Rights. How candid they are about how much they despise this country will amaze you. The threat of violence obviously underlies their thinking.
NATHAN RELAX, NEXT THING IS THAT YOU WILL COMPLAIN OF HIS SPELLING, PUNCTUATION OR SYNTAX.
Exactly. I can't believe that in this day and age when anything goes religion bashing is commonplace, Islam is given a free pass.
I'm sure the irony is lost on this leftwing blithering idiot that liberal cretins support flag burnings, unless it's a gay rainbow flag of course.
His spelling is actually pretty good, by InterBlag standards. There are a few extraneous apostrophes, but I can live with those. They make my eye twitch, but they don't detract from the legibility of the post.
It is his free speech, and he can exercise it however he wants. But, if he wants people to pay attention to his free speech…I merely offer a suggestion on how to reach a broader audience.
Everything Taranto says about Draw Mohammed Day and its possible effects on some Muslims is true. However, he seems to forget that we live in a period in American history in which the First Amendment literally trumps all other considerations.
Ask any artist, any writer, any performer – especially one whose political views lean to the left. They absolutely insist on criticizing our culture and breaking taboos, and they don't care whom they offend in the process. In fact, offending people is often the purpose of their work. They see themselves as "shocking us out of our complacency," "starting a conversation," and "getting us to look at things in a new way." If we object to their antics, it's because we're stupid Philistines – not because we believe our culture, our traditions, our history, even our taboos might be valuable and worth protecting. Apparently, only non-whites and non-Christians are allows that privilege.
But we know this has nothing to do with democracy, consistency, or the Golden Rule. It has everything to do with who's the "victim" and who's the "oppressor."
Outside the art world, I notice that news people don't seem to care if they ruin someone's life by publishing stories about him – even if those stories turn out to be inaccurate or were cooked up especially to damage him. Apparently, the newsies accept that sort of collateral damage as part of the price "we" pay for a free press. As long as they publish scurrilous lies and hearsay "in good faith," they've done their jobs.
It's interesting that these groups – the ones so serious about protecting their First Amendment rights – are the first ones to cave in when exercising those rights might offend the "wrong" people.
Finally, I agree with some of the commenters above: Muslims who behave this way – who threaten anyone who criticizes their religion or violates its tenets – are placing themselves outside American culture. No one is isolating them. They're doing it to themselves.
And, for better or worse, people who insult the Prophet are just being Americans. Sorry, Mo – love it or leave it.
Our Founding fathers were members in good standing of the Age of Enlightenment. I will hold my toungue in respect of others. I will try to understand the histories and the torments that bring a people to any faith. But I will not be silence under threat, That my friends is not only unamerican it is anti-enlightenment. We would still be burning witches in this country, we would still have slaves if intimidation was alowed to silence the minds of men. We need to leave the fourteenth century behind us and ignore those who would drag us back.
how do you insult someone who died 1300 years ago?
How do you insult a mass murderer who beheaded 700 'unbelievers"?
I don't buy it. I don't believe that Taranto and Comedy Central have suddenly become sensitive and compassionate toward those with religious beliefs. They've never pulled the plug on the mockery of Christianity and Christians, and frankly, I would be less surprised to see Osama Bin Ladin convert to Judaism than I would be to see Taranto and Comedy Central remain consistent with their newfound attitude.
It's nothing less than hypocrisy and cowardice. They know Christians, President Bush, and Sarah Palin won't try to saw off their heads for mocking them. But when faced with the possibility of an *actual* enemy, they drop to their knees and beg for mercy.
Excellent point and in that spirit, I will agree that the second has less western features but i have to say the hands appear a little feminine for a leader of so many men in a male dominated culture.
its the 6th century for mudhammed
Sort of like the Lefties who are so fond of "speaking truth to power." In America, where speaking truth to power is a protected act which has no consequences whatsoever, doing it requires no bravery whatsoever. Speaking truth to people who are willing to kill you over your words – and whom you tolerate in your country because you believe in Diversity above all else – takes a little more guts. Guts that liberals don't seem to possess at the moment.
Funny, Leftists used to face down cossacks, brownshirts, fascists, strike-busters, the Klan, the cops, the National Guard and all sorts of other dangerous people. Now they're hemming and hawing and rationalizing and apologizing to a group of religious fanatics trying to suppress their speech. Rosa Luxemburg must be spinning in her grave.
Taranto is lauding the South Park attempt to expose the absurdity of a culture that avoids criticizing a group because it makes threats. The Lets All Draw Mohammad Day goes beyond that. There are peaceful Muslims. LADMD does little to expose our cultural failings to treat everybody the same and does a lot to insult a group of people that have never made or endorsed threats.
I am Catholic and I am frequently disgusted by the treatment of the Church in the press and in entertainment. My faith is one that preaches the turning of the cheek towards such abuse. There is an argument made by the Extremist Muslims based on the Koran to inspire violence for the self interested goals of the radical leaders. Western culture has seen fit to succumb to fear of this minority. South Park is attacking that aspect of western culture. LADMD is attacking the faith of extremist and normative Muslims alike.
Some of those people do not deserve the abuse.
I agree with the article but I still have misgivings. Even though I think it is a joke that the religion calls for such an uproar over minor comedic jabs I still wouldn't possibly insult someone just to prove a point. I don't care what you do but I think I'll take the high road here. You mention our culture. Although we live in an "anything goes" society, shouldn't we at least sometimes take a step back and practice restraint? Maybe I'm just on a high horse but I believe "restraint" is a virtue and most of the time "audacity" is not.
You know, I used to be that way. I didn't want to offend people who didn't share my beliefs. But somewhere along the way, I realized that by not defending my faith, I may not have offended others, but I was certainly offending my Father in Heaven. I'd rather not offend anybody at all, but if I absolutely had to choose, you can bet I'd choose not to offend my Father over my brothers and sisters.
Han Solo said it best: "A droid doesn't pull your arm out your socket if they lose".
_C3P0: "Here's a better plan Artoo, let the Wookie win". Who knew that was reference to Islam?
It makes me feel good when I see people that actually understand Islam.
More people need to take the red pill and see this death cult for what it is — a systematic, oppressive, violent, political movement.
Great post.
I don't believe in forced censorship, especially under threat of violence. I do, however, believe in self-censorship. I thought the "Draw Mohammed Day" was unkind, and it was something I never would have personally participated in. I don't believe in mocking things that others hold to be sacred, whether or not they show me the same courtesy in return.
Cont'd
It'd be nice if we lived in a world with mutual respect and tolerance, but we don't. So for now, we need to settle for upholding the equal rights of everybody. And sometimes, that means the equal right to be offended without resorting to violence in return.
Wait … the WSJ writer doesn't think Islam exists outside our culture? That should tell you something about this PC jockey.
Let's see:
-Quran:9:5. Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun {unbelievers} wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush.
-Declaration of Independence: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Yeah, sure … Islam doesn't exist "outside of our culture" at all.
Why doesn't this writer just disclose that he's a little dhimmi?
Agreed, the First Amendment does not protect polite speech which needs no protection. The First Amendment protects impolite speech.
LOL Any possibility that Mo was, in fact, a black, gay male? I mean soft, white fingers would come in handy.
The truth can be very offensive to those who like the lie better. John made that quite clear when he said that people hated the light because they loved the darkness.
Welcome to the fight sister! : )
Actually, I think what is missed is that there are regular "Everybody Burn the Flag" days. Just look at some of the anti-American rallies staged around the world. Those people are hardly getting together to calmly express their reasoned dissatisfaction with a current policy decision.
Thus the comparison reveals an inherent hypocrisy in suggesting that there is something inherently "wrong" with an "Everbody Draw Mohammed Day" because no one would ever conceive of an "Everbody Burn the Flag Day".
An even greater hypocrisy is exposed when one remembers that as part of the Danish Cartoon Controversy, Ahmadinejad did in fact call for a "Everybody Draw Mockery of Christians and Jews Day". Not as a private person, but as a head of state!
Does this mean the call is just "going down to his level"?
Not at all.
It means that any outrage expressed over it is exposed even further as the hypocrisy that it is.
"Is it possible that Comedy Central's lawyers warned the show not to portray ole bombhead because if Muslims while trying to murder Parker & Stone kill bystanders the producers could be sued?"
Only by lawyers who are terminally insane.
I've often thought most Muslims are just brainwashed from childhood to believe in such a false and dangerous cult, since no rational adult can possibly find faith and solace in such an angry and dirty religion, but now I believe they truly are aware it's all a sham, and just use it as an excuse to kill, rape and pillage. Why else would they be so angry and insecure about their faith???
May I be painfully honest for a moment?
I have been giving serious thought to creating a drawing of Mohammad. Nothing terribly vulgar, but "thoughtful," and certainly offensive to Muslims. I've thought that I should, in solidarity to "South Park" and Theo and Hirsi and the rest, so that I'd be part of the Big Reaction to this barbarism in our midst.
But I am afraid to do it. I have a little, bitty business I'm trying to keep afloat in this recession. I have a wife, an eight-year-old boy, and a year-old baby girl. What if I were to put my name out there attached to this image– and the Internet lives forever– and we come to the point in the U.S. where these types of existential threats can be inveighed against me, against my family, against my business, against my church… against my baby girl… My love for my family is making a coward out of me.
On the other hand, if I don't do it, and we, collectively, refuse to respond, then those who do can be singled out from the herd and slaughtered, their lives and livelihoods ruined. And ultimately, my son might come to a place where he curses the cowardice of my generation, because we allowed our freedoms– his freedoms– to be eroded to the point where our country is not a place of free religions and speech and thought?
If I do act (and place my name on the drawing), I place my family in the quite literal line of fire– particularly if there isn't a huge outpouring of drawings. If I don't, I've allowed Sharia to creep just that much further, and I have actively participated in the degradation of our culture.
These people are barbarians. They are a threat. They have to be resisted. I only wish I didn't feel on the hook about it, and that someone else would do it with me, so it wouldn't be so lonely and terrifying.
This comment is as clear as it is truthful. A perfect lead off comment for another spot-on post by John Nolte. I love these "BIG" sites!
David
I don't like flag-burning, but I will defend to the death someone's right to do it. I view it as spitting on the people who fought and died to give you the right to disparage that sacrifice, but I will still defend to the death their right to do it.
Freedom means nothing if it gets taken away the first time someone is "offended." If Muslims aren't able to defend to the death something they despise, as true freedom requires one to do, than they don't deserve to live in freedom.
My bad, just irritable today.
What culture do live in? My culture begat Iggy Pop and Barney. My ancestors fought wars and now see history rewritten to negate all the factors of why it occured and see any attempt to celebrate our heroes twisted by activists to promote agendas. So it may seem the low road, but if you throw stones at me, prepare for rocks back. The Sunni sunshine girls have not given us a stink eye, they have drawn blood to say they do not like my culture and threaten more.
Scarface:
There is no manipulation here. The text I chose above is from a commonly accepted translation of the Koran (Shakir).
You are entitled to believe what you want but what you believe is not the point. The point is it's what they believe. And they believe is that the Koran is the literal word of God as spoken to Mohammed.
"Surely We have revealed it– an Arabic Quran– that you may understand." Sura 12:2
And that it cannot be altered.
"Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian." Sura 15:9
Unless God himself does it
"Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?" Sura 2:106
LADMD is attacking the faith of extremist and normative Muslims alike.
Some of those people do not deserve the abuse.
Then why the hell don't they speak up? Are the mainstream Muslims so afraid of the extremist movement that they won't speak out to condemn it? We hear so little from these so-called 'mainstream Muslims' that they might as well not exist at all.
Sh__, maybe they don't exist. I can't say I haven't ever considered that possibility.
It didn't take the Enlightenment to move would-be Americans to reject witch burning; within a brief time that singular aberration only spanned a few years and ended through the efforts of New England's own Christian leadership. It's end was completely unrelated to the Enlightenment. Likewise, slavery ended because of Christianity and Christian abolutionists, not secularists or leaders of the Enlightenment.
I'm sure I'm not alone in appreciating your patriotism and ostensible conservative stance, but arguing from a position of false assumptions about the history of faith vs. reason and the myth that Christianity held Mankind shackled in some dark age is a flawed position.
When Taranto says, "but that it defines those others–Muslims–as being outside of our culture" it is he (and everyone else who is terrified to offend Muslims) that is treating them like they are outsiders. As Nolte mentions, the South Park creators are equal opportunity offenders. They offend everyone without bias. I have even been offended by that show and I am virtually un-offendable. But I still love it precisely because it is funny and because it's only bias is against, well, bias itself or more to the point, fanaticism of any kind.
So, if we cannot offend Muslims but we can offend everyone else in this country, then aren't we treating them like outsiders? Aren't we really saying: "Muslims are so batshit insane that they can't handle being offended by a harmless little cartoon." If we walk on eggshells around them but not any other group of people in this country, then are we really treating them like equals, like rational human beings that I know at least some of them (the moderate ones) are?
In addition to being a pedophile and a thief, he was also a psychotic (or demoniac depending) who tried first to be accepted by Christians as a prophet (having learned about Christianity through a heretical monk who taught that the Trinity was Yahweh, Jesus and Mary, which the Qu'ran argues against as if it were some great revelation to authentic Christians), then the Jews who had already rejected Jesus and weren't out to make room for a nutjob who claimed visitations from Satan and Gabriel and didn't know enough about the Bible to realize the former wasn't as positive a claim for influence as the latter. (Ever hear of the Satanic verses?)
That's why many cult experts consider and categorize Islam as the first cult borne of a perversion of Christianity, right up there with its spiritual descendants the Moonies and Jim Jones. Who knows, if Sung Yeong Moon took up arms and forced his cult on a billion in Asia, maybe Comedy Central would be worrying about Moonie terrorists.
The true Messiah (Jesus) said that service and sacrifice are ways to come closer to God? Certainly not in the Bible, my friend. Per the Bible we are either within the Father's graces by salvation or we are without. Service and sacrifice are described as responses to God's grace, not a means of accessing it.
And Count? It is an accepted tactic of Muslims to dismiss the obvious meaning of the Qu'ran even in accepted translations by asserting the translation isn't in Arabic (obviously) or being understood by an Arabic speaker. That's the default position, even among Muslims who themselves do not speak Arabic and so rely on translations. Don't know if Scarface is Muslim, but it's a conditioned and encouraged response for those who are; they are not allowed to question nor examine the meaning of the Qu'ran, but rather to accept it. Period.
Curious too that the Qu'ran makes a claim that Jews themselves never have: that any Jewish prophet was the son of God, which is why Jesus' claim caused such tumult.
As you obviously know, the Qu'ran is filled with such ignorant statements, proffered by a man who was an orphan of simple means, one looking for significance, and who was rejected at the time by both Christians and Jews because of his ignorance and wild claims. Islam barely spread outside Mohammed's clan until — lo and behold — the angel told him God said the sword was a legit and holy way to spread his esoteric cult.
Why would a man from the Arabian peninsula look black? Have you never seen a Saudi? Besides, anthropomorphism rules the day in religion. Ever seen depictions of Buddha in China? He was from India.
Imagine a 54 year old toothless dirty arab on top of a nine year old girl and you can begin to understand Mohammed and his values.
Next time you want to have faith in someone, try not to pick a criminal murdering egocentric crazy man.
Join Act for America or any other similiar group, join and be loud there, don't do it alone. Start a chapter at your church, join a group, don't do it alone.
You'd almost think it was just an excuse for a perverted, womanizing pedophile that also loved to murder and steal. Almost…..
Great post hollywoodron – I am sick to death of ANYONE telling me I HAVE to be sensitive to their feelings!
I know the truth, you definately know the truth and anyone who WANTS to know the truth such pick up a book and read!!
So true – good job giving the most important basics of this religion of Islam
Not only are you off topic, but you're completely wrong about Hanoi Jane hosting SNL. I don't think she "ever" hosted the show. They also don't repeat the airing of O'Connor ripping the picture of JP2.
What's more important… you're still a bad parody. You know you're wrong.
The merchants and money changers in the Temple were not evil, they were providing a community service. The interpretation of the commandment to not worship false idols was so strict that it encompassed coinage from secular provinces and nations that had faces stamped on them. Those coins were forbidden from being used to pay the Temple tax.
Jewish pilgrims from outside of Judea need to change their money before they could follow the law, and they also needs sacrificial animals to complete their rituals.
Without them, the Temple couldn't function.
I read Taranto regularly and I don't think that was the point of his column.
In my opinion his argument was the left will do outrageous acts not just to prove they can do it, but to purposely insult and outrage those who don't agree with them. They are purposely repugnant.
And I agree with him. There is a way to accomplish the same mission without sinking to that level.
It's easy to do both. If some one is going to purposely offend you because of your beliefs, simply ignore them. They're usually baiting you, trying to provoke an response.
I don't give them the satisfaction of it. I shake off the dust of the town from my sandals and move on to then next.
One of my favorite quotes is by Jane Austen, where she says, "When people are determined on a mode of conduct which they know to be wrong, they feel injured by the expectation of anything better from them." From my experience, that's definitely true. A frequent way for the Spirit to work on us is through chastisement. If we didn't know deep down that something was wrong, we wouldn't get so defensive when we're called on it.
An editorialist from Wall Street Journal is a leftist?
I've been reading him for years, I'd place him center right.
I'd say American's are through with someone trying to intimidate them.Frankly , I think most of us could care less about Islam. A Southpark episode once in a while or a cartoon is not something to fall prey to intimidation about. And considering the scope of the world ,maybe it shouldn't be.
You all know that they took Old Testement,put themselves in the place of Jews,and disclaimed Christianty.The Koran
We call that plagiarism in America.
How offensive is that?
Not so much mocking…just an action to show they aren't afraid. Do you know how it would be interpreted if you don't denounce threats? Not good for us.
I take it you don't read Taranot's blog. I do. He's hardly left wing. From what I read of his writings, his greatest joy in life is to point as many contradictions, errors, and out right lies he can find in the New York Times.
And he does so funny as hell. He's the guy who came up with the term "French Looking" to describe John Kerry. And he keeps a running tab of exactly how long it's been since Kerry promised to fully release his military records. Currently he's lambasting Paul Krugman at every possible chance, especially getting mileage out of the quite 'In Britain, the government runs the hospitals and employs the doctors. We've all heard the scare stories, and they are lies."
Check him out for a few weeks before you you settle on an opinion.
I don't think Taranto is dissing the ultimate goal, I think he's just not supporting this particular method of accomplishing it.
'Submit' means submit to God, not to the Muslims, you moron.
Rubber chicken? Whoopee cushion? How about a joy buzzer?
I disagree. Read Taranto's side at his blog. He's no lefty, he's one of the NY Times' biggest opponents. He rides them mercilessly.
There is no comparison between Taranto and Comedy Central. He's an editor writer at the Wall Street Journal.
And his position is not cowardly, its about not sinking to the depths of flag burners who are more interested in pissing people off than making a point about freedom.
I agree with him, let's stick to the point, and we can do better than this.
The culture I live in also produced Bach, Beethoven, Shakespeare, and Leonardo. Its also invented life saving drugs, artificial hearts, laser surgery, and traveled to the moon and back. And just to prove it wasn't a fluke, did it again and again, and then again.
The culture I live has already proved itself by being the economic engine of the world, and preventing WW III.
My culture took the high road and offered a helping hand to it's defeated enemies of war. And it's trying its damnedest to bring our best ideals to the very world that condemns it, because they don't even grab the basic concepts of personal freedoms.
My culture fought the bloodiest war in its history not to conquer, but to spread freedom ending slavery.
My culture has no problem taking the high road. Its what we try to do every day.
So we find a better way to make the point even clearer.
We're Americans, that's what we do, find better ways.
Of course if you do not submit by becoming a Muslim then you are required to submit to the Muslims or be killed.
Or did you forget that part?
Ed, I'm familiar with Taranto and do realize he's not a leftwing imbecile. Unfortunately I skimmed the article this morning while concentrating on chasing some stocks to the bottom, thus I made my comment without realizing it was Taranto who made the awful analogy. I apologize for calling him a blithering idiot, in this case he's just wrong.
Not to God, but to Allah. And if you or I do not want to submit?
The guy is a pretender… he's "playing the role" of what he thinks a person on the Right is.
It's not just a cult. It's not just a religion. It's not even just culture. It's all of that all wrapped up and more.
In my opinion, far beyond what the Koran says, its a method for controlling vast populations, spread over vast distances. That's why people born in Islamic countries can't even imagine a world with out it. It permeates every aspect of their existence. Its just the way it is.
I'm torn as many other people are. I don't go out of my way to offend anyone else's culture or religion. I believe in freedom of speech and I believe in the freedoms that Nolte talked about in the article – no one has the right to NOT be offended. I may personally feel that some go too far in comedy or art, but I just state my opinion as such and move on. As is MY right.
However, with Muslims, they don't just get offended and express their opinion (verbally or by boycott), which would be fine. Just as Christians do when they are offended by something. They get violent.
That's being a bully. And so for me the Draw Mohammed Day was not about being offensive for the sake of being offensive and in fact, you didn't even have to be particularly offensive outside the fact of drawing Mohammed which just enrages certain Muslims. It was making a point: We have a right to freedom of speech/expression and we are going to exercise it in defiance of your violent threats.
Cont'd
And Nolte is right – by treating them differently than we do other groups – like Christians – WE would be placing them outside of our culture. In America, you need to learn very quickly to adapt to our freedom of speech, our love of satire and poking fun of sacred cows. That is what it means to be AMERICAN.
We coddle the illegal immigrants and don't expect them to learn the language and assimilate.
Now we are going to coddle the Muslims?
I don't think so. I hope there is still a Draw Mohammed Day and I hope those "offended" Muslims go apoplectic over it. I could care less. Again, be offended. Fine. We all get offended over stuff. But YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO THREATEN SOMEONE'S LIFE BECAUSE YOU WERE OFFENDED. AND YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO CARRY THAT THREAT THROUGH TO ITS VIOLENT END.
We must draw a line in the sand. And I say it starts HERE!
"it defines those others–Muslims–as being outside of our culture, unworthy of the courtesy we readily accord to insiders."
What utter nonsense. Muslims have already placed THEMSELVES outside of our culture, by following an ideology that mandates the conversion, subjection or death of unbelievers. That attitude is not compatible with American values.
"It is an unwise message to send, assuming that one does not wish to make an enemy of the entire Muslim world."
Even more ridiculous. The Muslim world is ALREADY AT WAR with us! Have any of these people ever bothered to crack open the Koran and read for themselves what this ideology that they so passionately defend even teaches?!
As to this idea of ridiculing religion in general, I have somewhat of a different take on this issue. I don't see the purpose of making fun of anyone's religion, just because you can. Also, there is a difference between mocking in a way that points out something true, and mocking in a way that misrepresents what the religion teaches. For example, let's imagine a picture of Muhammad holding a bomb. Now imagine Jesus holding a bomb. They are both mocking, but one represents the religion accurately and the other does not.
I'll leave it to you to figure out which is which.
Excellently stated.
I understand. Ain't nothing wrong in the least with recognizing and taking care of your priorities. You're a family man, and they come first.
I've decided not to participate for the simple reason I'm a better person than that. I have no wish to offend the Muslims living in my community, who've proved to be pretty good neighbors. A small community sprung up several blocks away from my home, and they've revitalized the neighborhood, fixed up old buildings, opened a community center and a mosque, and recently joined the rest of the ethnic groups in having their own festival. They hold regular open houses so anyone can come in and meet them, and the Imam gave some lectures at my Catholic church to help educate our parish.
There is a way to address this, but it's not by insulting my neighbors who by all evidence, are doing what every other ethnic group in this town has down for the last 100 years. Work for a better life, celebrate their heritage, and get along with every one else.
WELL ARE'NT YOU FORGETTING SOME-THING? DID'NT YOU USE YOU'RE MIND TO CREATE A CLEVER NON-CLICHE SAYING TO TELL ME EVERY TIME YOU COMMENTED? WERE IS IT? YOU LIB'S ARE ALL WAYS FORGETTING YOU'RE PRINCIPAL'S
WELL I AM SORRY I WENT 'OFF TOPIC' I JUST TRUELY THOUGHT THIS ARTICAL MENTIONED SNL AND WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW THE LIBERAL M.S.M. MEDIA LOVE'S TO TRASH US CHRISTIAN'S EVERY CHANCE THEY CAN GET SUCH AS WHAT HAPPEN WHEN THEY JUST KEPT RE-BRODACASTING SKINHEAD O'CONNER RIPPING THE POPE.
WELL ITS PRETTY MUCH OBLIGITORY FOR MUSLIM'S TO HOST ALL THE NEW'S SHOWS ACCEPT FOR FOX NEW'S THIS DAYS [BUT EVEN THEY BOWED TO THE MUSLIM BROTHER'S WHOM FORCED HIM TO HIRE ALAN COMBS IS A MUSLIM].
I was going to make this point but you beat me to it. We are to respect people, but that does not mean we have to be silent when we disagree with their views.
I would argue that most Muslims are peaceful. The problem is that they are peaceful DESPITE Islam, not because of it.
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