‘New Moon’ Trailer Arrives
by John NolteKnowing nothing about the source material, “Twilight” caught me completely by surprise – which is the only excuse I have for falling pretty hard for a longing, dew-eyed romance aimed at teenage girls. “Twilight’s” has its flaws, but underneath the vampirism-pathos was a surprisingly old-fashioned love story set in a small American town not filled with Hollywood stereotypes. Goodwill goes a long way and helps to forgive much (like weak special effects and listless action scenes), but “Twilight” earned plenty of goodwill with parents everywhere using metaphor as a way to teach teenage girls that true love is not based on sex.
“Twilight” is all about the self-restraint of both appetite and passion. Also playing an important thematic role is the importance of self-sacrifice, loyalty and family. It’s awfully hard not to like a film aimed at teens that’s so unapologetically earnest and well-intended. In this cinematic age of nihilism, moral relativism and hyper-sexualization of young girls, ”Twilight” should be hailed as the work of iconoclasts.
Director Catherine Hardwicke is unfortunately not returning for the sequel, which opens this November. She’s a fascinating and complex filmmaker — hard to pigeonhole. A former production designer, her debut “Thirteen,” was one of the most interesting films of 2003, and I would argue (and have), one of the most conservative of the last ten years. Her sensibility which stamped the first, will hopefully set the tone for the rest.
The “New Moon” above trailer looks like more of the same.
Nothing wrong with that.
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131 Comments
I wanted to like "Twilight." I tried to read it. But the "vampires" shimmered. Really!? I just can't bring myself to go along with that. It's wrong in so many ways….
I didn't like the books but I did think they'd do better on screen. Anybody have thoughts about why it's easier to make a terrific movie from a mediocre book but so many "great book" movies flop?
If you're only qualification for "wholesome" is that the main characters don't have sex, I suppose it applies. Personally, I found the entire book to be both tedious and disturbing on multiple levels.
(Some are slightly spoilerific, from the book, though I tried to be vague and some may not mean exactly what you would expect them to mean.)
1. It's ok to lie about every aspect of your boyfriend to your parent because "he wouldn't understand"
2. Parents are oblivious and mostly non-existent
3. Of course you are going to be suicidal when separated from the SO, after all he is your true love and you can absolutely be certain of that at 17
4. It's perfectly fine to have the boyfriend sneak into your bedroom after Dad goes to sleep and watch you while you sleep, so long as you don't actually have sex with him.
5. Oh, and it's perfectly alright to go around the boyfriend's back to make life-altering decisions that affect him, after all, he'll come around to your thinking at some point.
It's not unfortunately that Hardwicke isn't coming back. She did fine with the first one, but – according to Meyer and the production company – wanted to completely rewrite the second installment. It was my least favorite of the series, but I guess I'm in that minority of folks who go to adaptation films wanting to see a visual representation of the written work, not a director's "improvement" on the original story (cf. OotP).
Sorry, Jennifer, but I love that Saga. Meyer is a very good storyteller, the kind that can drag one from one page to the next with no problem. The hero is a "gentleman", which I have said many times is a great term that has disappeared from our world for some 40 years. It is nice to have it back, and I hope that young girls demand that their boyfriends behave in a 'gentlemanly' manner. There is one moment: our heroine doesn't want to go to a school dance because she is awkward; her loved one notes that there will be no problem because 'it's all in the leading'.
The relationships are of course, magical, ie, vampires, werewolves, but at its heart, the story is unabashedly about True Love and making the Right Moral Choices. Who cannot at least honor such a story, even if you cannot stand fairy tales?
I don't like Twilight at all. Give me Buffy the Vampire Slayer, instead (the tv version, not the awful movie).
*spoiler*
Apparently at some point in the series the two main characters have a baby together. I had a coworker railing about how some friends of hers had forbidden their daughter to read that book in the series. She thought it was because he was a vampire. Without having read the books myself or knowing any more than that, my private guess was more that the parents didn't like the idea of their daughter reading about an unwed teen having a baby, but I could be wrong knowing so little about the books.
Amen!
*actual spoiler*
They get married first. FYI.
I'm sorry Another Carolyn and sqt, but you were both off the day we sent the memo about banning folks who bad mouth the "Buffy" movie which raw-huwks in too many ways to count.
Now if you would both please just initial here ___ here ___ and here ___ that you've been warned….
Thank you.
Shoot. First Lawhawk bans me for mentioning some untalented actress named Buffalo or something and now this. I haven't been shunned like this since college.
If you keep this up, they'll expel you and send you to that special school for troubled kids. . . hufpo.
"definite spoiler": The vampire and the human are MARRIED first. Then they go on a honeymoon and she gets pregnant, and he finds out that such pregnancies lead to the mother's ghastly death, and so he wants her to have an abortion, but she doesn't WANT an abortion because she loves the baby inside her; and she almost dies (the pregnancy is very weird), however, all ends well, and the baby is wonderful and magical and the mother's life is saved by her beloved husband who transforms her into a vampire…. but then… there are the evillll Volturi who take up the rest of the book. A totally great story.
Many people hate that pregnancy thing because (a) the heroine CHOOSES to go through with a very dangerous pregnancy; and (b) the actual birth is quite awful (although women who have themselves given birth are probably not as shocked as those who have not done so…)
Are you sure they didn't "shimmy"?
I am so with you on that — if they're going to turn a book into a movie, turn the book into the movie. If they want to rework the book into something else, then don't tell us how faithful you were to the book.
I'm sure I can count on you to defend me, Andrew.
Would it be wrong to report this comment for the images in conjured in my head?
Sounds like you're the one with the dirty mind!
Agreed. I'm still waiting for a half way decent movie version of Richard Matheson's I Am Legend.
Absolutely. This is the worst outrage I've ever encountered as an attorney! I am horrified that this can happen in this day and age in America.
(You can pay my fee right?)
Pay your fee? Where's your empathy, Andrew?
The Twilight series is a disgrace to the feminist movement where a female's self image and worth is all wrapped up in a male. I'm not a femmi-nazi at all but when a girl attempts suicide because her man left there's something wrong. I appreciate certain aspects of the story but as a whole it goes downhill from the first book…the last book to me was like poorly written fan fiction….and really as a vampire enthusiast I would rather my vampires not sparkle! Give me Dracula any day of the week! (Preferably Langella's 1979 version)
The Volturi are awesome…the best part of the entire series and two of my favorite actors (Christopher Heyerdahl and Michael Sheen) are some of the Volturi so sorry Edward and posse I'm rooting for the other team.
I couldn't agree more. I was appalled to discover that the books essentially teach young girls to devote themselves entirely to a man/husband/boyfriend rather than lead their own lives, pursue higher education/careers, etc. It's quite reprehensible — and I'm no feminist either!
Bella's pregnancy was disturbing…and also resembled the pregnancy storylines of Angel and Roswell. Is it just me or the whole imprinting thing between Jacob and Renesme (? it's been awhile) just kinda pedophile-istic? Why is it creepy when a grown male in real life attaches himself to a young child but in a novel girls swoon?
P.S. To Whom It May Concern Is there a reason I'm stuck at 39 points? I've been at 39 points for a few months and I'm hoping that the system will hiccup and I'll get my other points added but it hasn't happened yet…do I need to join some special club?
Nah, I wouldn't have chucked the book across the room if they shimmied. It would have been more interesting.
Believe it or not, I preferred the Vincent Price version to the Will Smith version. The Will Smith version was just a bland action flick (also they missed far too many opportunities to improve the movie). At least the Vincent Price version kept the intellectual concepts and asked some cool philosophical questions.
Plus, it has a guy named "Price" in it.
My dog ate it.
Duly noted. Though I didn't hate the movie. I was commenting more on the preference of "Buffy" to "Twilight."
Hmmm, the series sounds as if it gets interesting. I may have to rethink my prejudice against it. Soo, thanks. I think.
what is this whole "point" thing anyway? I wanna compete too! Tell me how.
I don't think there's an official "Big Hollywood Handbook" that you can look to as your guide so I'll try to explain it. The points are basically people "agreeing" with you and in agreeing with you they give your post a thumbs up. It's sort of like reputation…those with the big numbers (like AndrewPrice and others in the elite 100+) have a great reputation but others (like random cyborg people that come here to stir up trouble) have like -85 you know that they're basically full of crap whenever they post.
You're able to participate in this is to sign up for an account! It's free and it's fun so you should totally do it.
the story is a FAIRY TALE. It is a ROMANCE. Its subtext of 'making the right, moral choices' in life, and further, emphasizing that choices are important and possible even in the most difficult of situations; and having a hero who is a gentleman (imagine!), and recalling Anne of Green Gables and Wuthering Heights is most admirable.
I wondered when we would see 'feminism' dragged into this. Gosh. Bella the heroine LIKES to cook supper for her father!! She loves her vampire lover. She does not dream of Dartmouth and a government job with a great pension plan. She does not agonize about self actualization. She is kind and helpful to her relatives and her friends.
Although she DOES write an essay on the misogyny of Shakespeare… is that OK??
The points have been in limbo since one of the Intense Debate format changes. I have no idea if our points will start registering again.
I like the Price version. Will Smith needs to stay away from genre classics after the abominations known as I, Robot and I Am Legend. I do like the Charlton Heston version, The Omega Man. It's just not I Am Legend.
There's much more than just Bella enjoying being a wife and housewife…I could care less if a woman's dream is having a house and home. I'm not referring to that aspect at all. I'm speaking more about her attitude and perception of Edward (especially in the last book) becomes her "salvation". Bella was not living until she was "saved" by Edward which in real life translates that they are not "living" unless they have a guy with them. Comparing the Twilight series to AoGG and WH isn't really valid because even though they may have things in common things are completely different. Remember Anne was an independent female who did not NEED Gilbert to survive or have self value. I'm not saying that Bella needed to be a woman who hated men…not in the least! I enjoy men and I hope one day to have a family of my own. I think the problem is that Bella needed to be HERSELF and find out who she was in the series instead of her identity relying on Edward. That's the kind of feminism I am speaking of…
I like Will Smith, but you are right about those movies. They were fine for summer blockbusters, but they stunk if you were hoping for something with a little more merit.
Heston's funny for me. I don't "like" his movie and I don't care for his acting. But I watch them over and over. He's kind of like Stanley Kubrick to me. I don't like anything Kubrick has done, but will watch his movies over and over. Maybe that's his purpose, to disquiet the audience? I don't know. . . only the shadow knows. . .
Well that stinks…
ME—I came to this site from DHP, and have registered numerous times, and still my posts log as zero—I give up!
"She is kind and helpful to her relatives and her friends."
Except she's NOT. She ignores and/or dismisses her friends the moment they have ANYTHING negative to say about the guy she's decided is the be-all-end-all of her life, and she openly decieves her family about every aspect of her dangerously co-dependent relationship with a guy who by any rational perception is a violence-prone stalker.
This series is a "romance" between a guy who tells his girlfriend "I want you so badly it makes me want to physically hurt you" and a girlfriend who responds "Wow, that's SO much more cool than all those boring guys who like me but DON'T want to maybe kill me." And 'conservatives' are lapping it up because it gestures in the direction of the "Purity Ring" crap. I don't have a daughter, but if I did I'd like to think I'd prefer her nudging in the direction of "too far" with a good guy than swapping intensely-chaste dialogue with a obsessed serial-killer in the making. Maybe that's just me…
So, remembering that this is a FAIRY TALE, with vampires and werewolves, note that BOTH Bella and Edward cannot live without each other. Note that Edward has been 'frozen' in a 17 year old state of mind until the moment comes when he is totally transformed by his True Love for Bella. In other words, this is an equal love story. True, she falls apart, into a coma, when he leaves her. But he too falls into huge depression when he is away from her. In fact, he is quite ready to die when he thinks she too is dead. This is ROMANCE. Old fashioned romance. It is indeed, a very Romeo and Juliet story, full of sturm and drang.
As to Anne of Green Gables, another of my faves, Both Anne and Gilbert must wait and work for a time before HE can afford to become her husband (Edward Cullen is RICH). Anne is an old fashioned 19th century girl, and it is anachronistic to describe her as an 'independent person' with 'self value.' Gilbert is a gentleman, quite like my own grandfather was, and Anne settles right into marriage and family life, in the way my own grandmother did. Nobody of that time would understand that concept, 'self value'
Dissing Heston and Kubrick? That's heresy you speak, sir. I'll try to forgive you for saying that Smith's movies are "fine for summer blockbusters". That's an insult to good summer blockbusters which, admittedly, are few and far between these days.
Remembering that we live in REAL LIFE and in teaching girls that their self value and worth depends on a man is extremely dangerous and offensive. We already have problems with girls sleeping around with guys to keep their self worth…now we have girls looking to Bella and seeing that if their special guy leaves them they should go into a major depressive episode! Romance is the love between two people but not the complete and utter reliance on one person for your reason to live.
Did Edward want to die? Yes…did he attempt to kill himself like Bella? No. There's a difference between love and romance and obsession…
It doesn't matter whether people were rich or poor — Anne still found herself before she got married. Her self worth was not wrapped up in Gilbert. Gentlemen are great and I don't think anyone is arguing against them at all. I just know that of the many friends I have who adore the series they have this idea that I keep saying that their identity depends on having a male by their side….and it's obsessive…not love or romance.
The imprinting thing is not (or is less) creepy in the book because it's stated that it's not a sexual thing when the girl is too young. It's something more like the guy's "world revolves around her" – which is still kind of weird (and Jacob agrees, at least until it happens to him).
Edward is even more weirdly dependent on Bella than she is on him. I think their super mushy codependency is kinda freaky, but hey, it's a vampire novel. Maybe the freaky emotions make up for the lack of freaky sex? I dunno.
Thank you, John, it was because of your recommendation that I saw the movie and, thus, I read the books. Even better,I was able to introduce the series to my daughter-in-law. She grew up, not really reading. She can read, but never really did. Once the books were introduced to her, we had great conversations (aka comprehension sessions). I have given her a new set of books to read, so that we can discuss them. Mrs. Myers has given me a great gift with my daughter-in-law and to think, John, all because of your recommendation.
I like grown up trashy vampire tales, like the Sookie Stackhouse ("True Blood") or Anita Blake novels. There, the love interests still have otherworldly beauty, but the heroines are smart and strong (although not above being rescued on occasion by their supernatural lovers) and they can have all the sense-shattering sex they want without worrying about pesky things like birth control or unwanted pregnancies! Now THAT'S fantasy with teeth! While I know and respect several grownups who love the Twilight books, they're just not for me.
Bella never really had human friends, except the one shy girl. Jessica was never a friend.
Also, I don't think Bella gets off on the possibility of Edward maiming her. She's more like, "But I LUV U, therefore I don't care." She's the "We can work it out" girl. Which is still bad. But maybe less bad. I think.
Edward didn't become dependent like that until after the first book. (I happen to like the first book—like I said it went downhill from there.)
You didn't think him biting a pillow to prevent from biting her, feathers everywhere the morning after, and bruises all over her to be freaky?
Eh, I wasn't in love with Twilight and I think it was due to some poor decisions on Hardwicke's part, such as not reshooting the car scene in which Bella says "What is going on?" like a zombie robot. Yeah, the baseball scene kicked @$$, but the meadow scene… oh Lord, the meadow scene… I almost drowned in the cheese.
Indeed. That's why I loved it, despite some elements I wasn't crazy about.
As a forty-something mom of 3 kids (2 daughters) I have to say that I was enchanted with the Twilight movie! The books … not so much. I'm just a very visual person. *SPOILER ALERT* I love that Stephenie Meyer (the author) keeps the Edward and Bella in love and lust … and waiting for marriage, which, in the book, Bella is quite loathsome to do. Bella is very worried about what all the townsfolk will think of an 18 year old girl marrying her boyfriend, even though she knows it is True Love and not a shotgun wedding.
Okay, it's not Shakespeare, but I let my 11-year-old daughter see the movie -with me- and we talked about it. BTW, Stephenie Meyer is LDS, if that matters to anyone.
Ummm……you ARE wrong. They ARE married when that baby comes along and were married when that child was conceived, on their honeymoon to be exact. Case in point, some people like to talk about things that they know nothing about. Maybe you should do your research before talking about such things. I am not trying to be mean but this deserved a gentle rebuke.
Well, that is pretty freaky. However, it's a freakiness that's left up to the imagination. What I meant was there are no freaky sex scenes (just a couple fade-to-blacks that leave ripped pillows and shredded headboards as the only lasting evidence of what took place).
Well, that is pretty freaky. However, it's a freakiness that's left up to the imagination. What I meant was there are no freaky sex scenes (just a couple fade-to-blacks that leave ripped pillows and shredded headboards as the only lasting evidence of what took place).
The Ladyfaire and I enjoyed the books and the movie. I intend to watch the movie when it comes out.
Buffy is definitely cool (although I won't give my opinion of the Movie for fear of Editor. Hmmm, I could say it was not the worst movie ever made.)
And yes, Twilight is a disgrace to Modern Feminism ….which is one of its plusses. And its a story so 1)It needs to make sense in its own terms. In the Meyersverse, different biologies are different in thought. Would some more SF writers realized that. 2) Homo fictus always has a more exciting life than Homo sapiens.
True, there were several things that didn't translate well. As John pointed out over on the DH post, the initial attraction between the two isn't very clear, and comes across a bit forced. Also, the car scenes are, like you say, stiff, but I think that's because Hardwicke made several decisions that changed Bella's character and therefore changed the way that character would react to those situations. Bella is responsible, but not a "have to be in control of my situation" type of girl, and would never have said that horrid "strong, independent woman" line. Ever. Bella's vulnerability in the books is, I believe, what drew so many women to her, and Hardwicke (presumably with Kristen Stewart) tried to stamp it out.
Yes. And the first Twilight film does diverge from the source material in a few places, some forgivable, some not. Since it's written in first-person, obviously you can't have the whole movie be one continuous voice-over. But then you have someone like David Yates, who is on my fantasy hit list after what he did to Harry Potter, and I am still sick over the fact that he is doing the subsequent films. So, if Hardwicke was going to pull a Yates on us, I say, Good Riddance.
Not everyone swooned. A good number of ladies I know who read it, myself included, still reject it. Of course, I'm an Anti-Jacob person anyway. But I found that whole aspect way too…..odd. I don't even read the second half of Breaking Dawn anymore. I think Stephanie Meyer has great talent, but I didn't care for the ending. To neat and organized and easy and safe. The whole Jacob/Renesmee thing was a part of that nice, neat organization that felt like, "See, now we can all be one big happy family."
The Twilight series is a disgrace to the feminist movement
Is there such a thing as being too anti-feminist? I think not. To quote Margaret Thatcher, "I owe Women's Lib nothing." Oh, and when did Bella attempt suicide? Because I've read those books more times than my husband wants me to admit and it's not in there. She starts living a more thrill-seeking lifestyle, but death is not her intention – adrenaline is. She isn't attempting to end her life, she's living it more fully, like with the cliff diving scene.
Actually it has to do with the intentions behind it. The fact that she is injured when they have sex is due to the fact that they were both inexperienced, not just with the physical part of sex but also with the emotional. Edward loses it, and – if you actually read the books you'll remember – tries to keep from having sex with her to avoid hurting her again. As they get more experienced, the flesh-deep injuries disappear. So it's not a sadistic "I want to hurt you" type of thing on his part. And she knows that and responds accordingly.
I am having somewhat contradictory thoughts regarding the abstinence theme of this series. I keep being reminded of that ever first movie poster: http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4707/newmoonltc….
So there's clearly no endorsing of pre-marital sex, yet the promotional ads aimed at fans (which include young girls) are plastered with these young, shirtless, male Hollywood actors?
Does anyone else but me sense a tad bit of hypocrisy here?
I admit I have not seen the movie or read any of the books, so I probably don't know what in the world I'm talking 'bout here.
I think it's because there are so many fundamental differences between what makes a good book and what makes a good film. If the book is as awful asTwilight (and it truly is appalling) then when making the film people feel more able to make the necessary changes. Whereas if the book is good, there is the temptation to remain too faithful to aspects that may work on the page but not on screen.
YES. Only someone obsessed with sex and virginity could find Twilight anything other than disturbing. I for one would rather have the girls of the nation sleeping with entire football teams every night than look to a passive agressive, co dependent manipulative little girl and her equally manipulative, often violent and misogynistic boyfriend for guidance on healthy relationships. Praising the books for the lack of sex just makes many conservatives look foolish – and with a serious one track mind.
have your reply notifications died too?
The books are good, not great, just like the movie. The characters are incredibly one-dimensional but none of this matters. Teenagers love the romantic tension between Bella and Edward and that's pretty much all that matters. I wouldn't read more into it than that.
Jennifer was obviously NOT bemoaning the lack of sex in those stupid books. She was pointing out how creepily hypocritical the premise of the books are in spite of the lack of sex. They're about a relationship between a teenage girl and a VAMPIRE for heavens sake written by a not very bright woman who evidently has no problem exposing her bizarre, sicko fantasies to the world.
The Sookie Stackhouse series are tons of fun. What Alan Bell and HBO did to it should be a capital crime. I guess it's what you can expect from a director who views America as and racist and homophobic and who uses every nasty stereotype of middle and rural America to express his leftwing viewpoint.
[...] praise for Twilight? And of course, [...]
I wouldn't say ALL feminists dislike "Twilight" as this blogger explains
http://blog.newsarama.com/2009/01/03/twilight-eli...
She is correct that elites (radical feminists) are the ones driving the anti-Twilight backlash. These elites want women to be "equal to" (i.e., just like) men. So, the success of the "girly" vampire books is consider a threat to the elites' ludicrous goals.
The irony is that "Twilight" isn't as truly pro-abstinence as the elites believe. From the reviews I've read, Edward doesn't have sex with Bella because of biological reasons (vampire bloodlust), not self-discipline. The latter motivation would make Ed's restraint as truly impressive as that of a mortal virgin.
Exactly.
Despite the mainstream media and radical feminist hype, there are conservatives who share Jennifer's concerns that a "pro-abstinence" message doesn't make "Twilight" a positive influence on teen girls.
Here are two examples of conservative critics willing to ask hard questions about the "Twilight" craze. First is Mark Earley, who weighs in on the books:
http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=9...
Second is Chuck Colson who does a great commentary on the movies:
http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=1...
So, it's a stereotype that ALL conservatives will accept bad behavior from Edward as long as he's abstinent. There are more perils in the world than the negative consequences of premarital sex.
If you're familiar with the series, you would know those guys are the shapeshifters, close to werewolves. They go shirtless because their clothes are destroyed when they shift. I agree, mind you. The poster presents the attractiveness of the figures. But the stories themselves aren't about a lack of attractiveness. Quite the opposite. The story is about resisting temptation, rising above it, doing what's right for the person you love even when you selfishly want something of them.
If you're familiar with the series, you would know those guys are the shapeshifters, close to werewolves. They go shirtless because their clothes are destroyed when they shift. I agree, mind you. The poster presents the attractiveness of the figures. But the stories themselves aren't about a lack of attractiveness. Quite the opposite. The story is about resisting temptation, rising above it, doing what's right for the person you love even when you selfishly want something of them.
I'm not really looking forward to this movie in the series. It's just so depressing, this segment of the story. Still, some thoughts. Someone said Bella was suicidal, but she never is. She's depressed, clinically so, I would suppose. But she never sets out to end her life, not even once. The hallmark of this part of tale, anyway, is that Edward leaves Bella, out of the sense she's better off without a vampire for a boyfriend, because he believes she deserves better than a monster in her life. I thought such a motion was a great example of love, that really loving someone is about putting their needs even before one's own wants and desires. All in all, the story is really good.
You would not believe how many girls and boys love the Twilight series. I could not keep them on the shelves. __I am having a hard time dealing with the "feminism" comments made by some of the posts. Can't we just have a great love story and leave it at that? Weren't you ever 17 and so madly "in love" you thought you were not going to live unless you heard his/her voice? It is both wonderful and awful at the same time and THAT is what is drawing the young people to this book. It is an old fashioned love story with all the angst that goes along with first love. Stop making it into something political. Cripes!
@MovieBob
Don't believe the mainstream media and radical feminist hype. There are conservatives who don't believe that Twilight's "pro-abstinence" message makes it a positive influence on teen girls.
Here are two conservative critics willing to ask hard questions about the "Twilight" craze. First is Mark Earley, who weighs in on the books:
http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=9...
Second is Chuck Colson who does a great commentary on the first movie in the series:
http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=1...
So, it's a stereotype that ALL conservatives accept Edward's bad behavior because he's abstinent. Premarital sex has negative consequences (teen pregnancy, STDs, emotional damage, etc.), but it's not the only threat to teens' health and well-being.
first of all bella NEVER tried to commit suicide in any of the books! SPOILER…she discovered that if she did things that she thought Edward would disapprove of then she could remember him more clearly (apparantly in the movie they are going to change that a little) she was cliff diving, that's all it was…
As for Edward and Bella having a child, they were married…how she got pregnant was a litlle out there, and she had the baby within a few weeks instead of 9 months which is beside the point. Anyway they did wait to have sex until they were married b/c Edward wanted it that way, he was always too afraid he would hurt her
Yes, Bella was shy and timid in the beginning, but throughout the rest of the books she came out of her shell so to speak, she took things into her own hands and became very forceful
I loved these books…the movie was good, but too rushed, i hope they do a better job with new moon even though it was my least favorite of the books.
This is one of the worst book series to ever be published. The "gentleman" stalks the girl, is one of the most abusive pricks I have ever read about, and one of the characters in the last book "imprints" on a baby, and she grows up to reach sexual maturity when she's 7 so he can have her then. There is some absolute horrifically bad mojo going on this series, and it's turned a lot of fans (not all) into real nuts.
Here's a board with a mature discussion with both adults and children about the complete atrocity that is this series.
http://twilightsucks.proboards.com/index.cgi?boar...
My daughter is almost thirteen and while she never hated reading she only read what she had to. I introduced her to Narnia and Potter, nothing grabbed her. She'd never read any book longer than 200 pages and she devoured the Twilight book in a day! She read the other three books in the same manner and has re-read the books several times since. The gift given to her by the Twilight series is that she is now reading other books in the same manner. Somehow these books turned a switch on in her brain and I will be forever grateful to Ms. Meyer for that transformation. She loved the first movie and we talk about the Twilight story all the time. It has great teaching moments were we can discuss choices made by Bella and Edward. My daughter gets that the vampire stuff is nonsense, we laugh about some of the vampire "facts". She doesn't idolize or envy Bella, but we can use her life to examine consequences and choices without sounding like she's getting another lecture. I had my concerns about the material in the book, but based on her comments, my daughter won't be using Bella and Edward's romance as a blueprint for her future relationships. So let her enjoy the angst.
C'mon–will you seriously tell me that Tara and Lafayette aren't massive improvements from the books? I will grant that they've inexplicably made Jason a sub-moron, but on the whole they've done a great job. Two things I'll agree with you: ***1st season SPOILERS*** the girl Bill turns is a ridiculous good girl to bad girl because she was raised repressed and religious cliche, and the thuddingly obvious vamp/gay parallel when Jason has that guy chained in the basement. But I'm sure we can agree that the biggest offense of all would be the absolutely horrendous "southern" accents. I can't wait for the new season.
From a domestic violence perspective, Edward does and says things that should be huge, flashing red signs that say Stalker! Batterer! These books do not represent healthy relationships to teen girls. A story without sex is not defacto wholesome. If Edward were not a vampire in a fantasy book, he would be a very creepy boy that Bella would eventually need a restraining order from. Hopefully he would only have to beat the crap out of her once before she got a TRO, but because of how desperate she is to keep him around, I'd say that's unlikely.
I'm not bemoaning the lack of sex. The – not very bright, as you put it – author has the right to make her characters do or not do whatever she wants. What I am protesting is the fact that a lot of people seem to think the lack of sex makes Bella and Edward a healthy couple, despite the fact that they have the single most unhealthy relationship in teen literature, and some of the least appealing personalities and moralities in literature as a whole. Surely there are books which are well written, which promote abstinence and which see sexual conduct as a significant part of morality, but not the whole part? That's what I meant by a "one track mind".
Oh come on, Edward is forever conscious of Bella's human fragility… and his whole thing is 'mind over matter', or self restraint so that he doesn't kill his human loved one. It is his self discipline that drives most of the story!
wow, sounds like if YOU had written the books they would have been pretty damn boring! This is an example of the "all or nothing" idealism that many conservatives suffer from. This malady is what keeps us losing elections and staying silent while our country is taken away from us. This Leftist Revolution did not happen overnight, it happened in degrees over YEARS. Public education and media indoctrinated our youth for 30 years and here we are. Compare the Twilight series, which I did not read, but my wife did (I like the Anne Rice Vampire novels), with ANYTHING else out there consumed by teens today and it is seriously Nancy Drew. I thought that the messaging is most important and those items you mentioned are trivial to an overpowering message that does much more GOOD than it does HARM.
How you can begrudge that, I just don't know. But keep on not compromising and you will be left out of the debate altogether. Hell, that has already happened to us.
I read both authors too. But I am NOT suggesting Anita Blake to my mother!!!! and we discussed Twilight. (they were nearly too much for her) so the discussion ripples were wider
I read the Twilight series because someone else wanted an opinion. They were what they were. I liked the storyline and there were some twists I was NOT expecting. Haven't seen the movies and don't intend to. But I liked the books for exactly where they fit in the genre/age levels. Although I didn't love her falling apart after Edward left – I've been dumped – hated it. Went through my own being alive without living. What we saw was that she was coming out of it with Jacob & friends – and she was different because of the experience. And the choices over the baby were good. He wanted to choose her; she chose the baby. There was merit there.
don't over-think. Let them be what they are.
Do you also have an issue with romance novels (you know, the cover has a scantly clad woman leaning into the arms of some over-muscled, long haired man)?
I see this series as teenage girl fantasy, a bodice-ripper without the bodice or the ripping. In response to your objections:
1) Has to lie to her father or he will be killed. There is this code of secrecy among vampires where if you know about them, to have to either become one or you die – again this is fantasy
2) Teenager fantasy – don't really need parents, except for inconsequential things like food clothing and shelter.
3) Teenage girl fantasy. If there is a teenage girl that takes these books seriously, get her some help. In addition, this was a very tedious portion of the 2nd book as many teenage girls will agree. I will submit that this is a warning, don't do this, its really tedious.
4) See number 2
5) OK, any womans fantasy. Of course we like to think we know what's best for everyone. Not a good idea to actually do that, but it makes for nice fantasy.
What I liked about the books (no, I am not a teenager, had I been fortunate enough to have children, they would be teenagers or older by now) is that it is the antithesis of the hook-up culture. It is about commitment and loyalty. My niece loves these books. It has helped inspire her to pursue a writing career.
How can you water down an Icon of horror and steal from several television series by throwing in the teen slant……..Twilight.
The strongest reason for 'waiting for marriage' before sex is not only Edward's fear of hurting Bella. It is also his wanting to keep one area of his existence pure: he had murdered, and coveted and broken pretty much every one of God's commandments. He was still, however, 'pure' in the sexual sense. To him, that is of transcendent importance. It has something to do with having or not having a soul… and since he is a monster, he definitely has his doubts about his own soul.
There is a lot to be gained from this Saga.
There is something so creepy about Volterra and the Volturi: the herding of tourists into the killing ground. Eww. It speaks to an underlying fear of any tourist in a strange land. "Anything" can happen even if you are careful….
Kimbergrl – great post, I was about to say the same thing. IN THE CONTEXT OF THE STORY, the behavior is acceptable within that universe. If Edward were human, then NO IT WOULDN'T BE, but there are rational and acceptable explanations for almost everything, although the whole "depression" thing after Edward left I will admit was a little over the top but it's been 20 years since I was 17 so I may have forgotten how ridiculous teens can sometimes be.
Like Harry Potter, it involved wholesome adventure that yes, did include some rule breaking, etc. Otherwise, for heaven's sake what kind of boring book would it be?! Adventure and action is sometimes about going outside "reality" and having fun and that's all this stuff was.
Was her writing a little amateurish? Sure, she could improve. But overall I enjoyed it for what it was FICTION and FANTASY.
Um, you are wrong. Bella NEVER tried to kill herself, per se. She was seeking the adrenaline rushes that brought out Edward's voice in her head. A little weird, yes, but it's a FANTASY NOVEL, for heaven's sake.
Edward actually did try to kill himself. That's the whole point of the final part of New Moon:
SPOILERS:
Bella goes to Italy with Alice to save Edward because he's about to reveal himself to humans int he Volturi's hometown and he knows that they will kill him for it. It's kind of like suicide by cop.
I will grant you that the mooning over each other and I can't live without you bit was a little over the top, but I haven't been 17 in 20 years so sometimes it's hard to remember that perspective. When you are 17, everything is a big deal and when things don't go your way, it all feels horrible and like the end of days.
Edward is a VAMPIRE! HELLO! Are you sure you actually read the books? The greatest part of Edward's torment is that he loves Bella, but he also wants to drink her blood because technically she is food. The lion fell in love with the lamb. A little cheesey but true to the story.
She had bruises all over her because he's strong and his body is like granite and she was still human. He hated himself for it even though it was unintentional and tried to keep from doing it again.
Weird, yes. A little disconcerting. Maybe. But if you ever read Anne Rice, especially Memnoch the Devil, then this stuff is kitten play compared to what Anne Rice wrote back then.
It's a novel about Vampires and Werewolves and so there is inherent violence in the story.
But it is a FANTASY and I saw nothing in it that promoted anything untoward.
Excellent post. SPOT ON!
Although "Romeo and Juliet" had a tragic ending, part of the reason I remember loving the story as a child was the "Romantic" part and let's face it, for the most part, that kind of "romance" is fictional. Real life is NEVER that exciting, not even your LOVE LIFE. Reality always sets in.
So it's a FANTASY for young adults. Big deal.
And yes, I guess we have all forgotten what it was like to be 17 and stupid. Unless of course you (as in the general you) are remembering yourself as an awesome 17 year old that never did or said or thought anything stupid. Well, lucky you, then. The majority of us were young and dumb which is a natural developmental stage and not something to be derided per se.
I actually quit reading the 2nd book in the midst of the depression section for a couple of weeks, it was just too much angst (its been almost 30 years since I have been 17…was it really like that!). I am with you, I liked the Harry Potter series better, I think JK Rowling is a better writer, but so what. They are both good STORIES with good characters. In both stories you had characters with supernatural powers that CHOOSE NOT to use them to dominate others. This is a great lesson!
Ok I'll bite. While the books tend to be anti-feminist, I think Meyer captures the essence of a 17 year old brain. It hasn't been a long time since I was 17 and I can tell you that most girls do feel like the world just ended after a break up. Cannot. Live. Any. Longer. I guess the author could have moralized and idealized and made Bella indifferent to the whole thing, but teenage girls wouldn't buy that character. That's why they all love the book: they connect with Bella's feelings about losing Edward.
While I am not a big fan of the books, I consider it a good alternative to Gossip Girl et al (which are all anti-feminist). If you're like those characters you wouldn't feel upset after a break up, after all, you barely can remember your partner's name.
Yes. "Gentlemen" always stalk and act emotionally abusive toward their girlfriends.
(And don't pin the "feminist" tag on me — I'm as conservative as they come. But sadly, quite a few conservatives have been deceived by "Twilight.")
And then there's the exaltation of all things vampire over all things human, which is quite disturbing.
Actual Meyer quote: "I'm anti-human."
Ok I'll bite. While the books tend to be anti-feminist, I think Meyer captures the essence of a 17 year old brain. It hasn't been a long time since I was 17 and I can tell you that most girls do feel like the world just ended after a break up. Cannot. Live. Any. Longer. I guess the author could have moralized and idealized and made Bella indifferent to the whole thing, but teenage girls wouldn't buy that character. That's why they all love the book: they connect with Bella's feelings about losing Edward.
The whole thing kind of reminds me of the Lisa Lionheart episode of THE SIMPSONS
There is something so creepy about Volterra and the Volturi: the herding of tourists into the killing ground. Eww. It speaks to an underlying fear of any tourist in a strange land. "Anything" can happen even if you are careful….
I too noticed this (I have a really hard time watching the movie all the way through)… the Bella of the book is sardonic and witty. Kristen's Bella is solemn. Very pretty. But remorselessly solemn. Is this because Kristen cannot act, or is it because Catherine Hardwicke wanted this kind of Bella???
Probably a mix. I have seen Kristen in other things and I believe she can act, but she tends toward subtlety. Plus, she was 17 at the time and so it wouldn't be hard for Hardwicke to lead her in whatever direction she wanted.
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