Captain Un-American: Marvel Comics’ Idea of Heroism — Fighting ‘Teabaggers’
by James Hudnall
Marvel recently announced that their heroes would start acting like heroes again. So what were they doing, running crack houses?
After seven years of grim and grimmer story lines, including a superhero “civil war” that pitted Iron Man against Spider-Man and the death of Captain America, Marvel Comics will usher in a more optimistic “Heroic Age” approach in May.
“Heroes will be heroes again,” says Marvel editor in chief Joe Quesada. “They’ve gone through hell and they’re back to being good guys — a throwback to the early days of the Marvel Universe, with more of a swashbuckling feel.”
What does “swashbuckling,” which refers to pirates, have to do with heroism? Quesada went on to explain that Captain America, Iron Man and Thor would be working together again instead of acting like foes. Suddenly, WTF? appears over the scene like the Batsignal. How does working together make them heroes exactly? In the “Dark Reign” series of stories at Marvel last year, a bunch of Super-villains led by Norman (Green Goblin) Osborn had taken over the Avengers and were “working together,” trying to kill off the real heroes. Under the guise of helping people. How progressive. But that’s not very heroic.
The problem is, Marvel, like DC to a large extent, is run by and largely created by Progs these days. People who mostly adhere to the “progressive” worldview. There isn’t much diversity of political thought over at these companies. Progs tend to exclude those who don’t follow the party line. They feel more comfortable in a groupthink environment. And this leads to a kind of “bubble mentality” that comes with living in an echo chamber. In the case of Marvel it sometimes becomes unintentionally rank — with a lot of Obama worship — from Spider-Man teaming up with the Prez to Captain America saluting and praising him in the “Who Will Wield the Shield.” There sure wasn’t too much positive being said about Bush during his administration in comics, when they mentioned him at all. But Obama has been praised and venerated from the get go. Like his Nobel prize for just showing up, the comic world’s been awfully uncritical of a president who’s sinking faster in the polls than any president since Eisenhower.
But coincidentally or not, Obama’s first year in office is also the year of the Dark Reign, where villains took over as “protectors” of America and increased the corruption in all the government agencies. Isn’t that ironic, as Alanis might sing? The heroes were on the run, but now there’s a new battle called Seige where the heroes are fighting back against the ersatz heroes of Dark Reign. Hopefully, that will reset things back to “normalcy” in the Marvel Universe.
But that doesn’t get around the fact that ugly politics occasionally show up in their books.
Disclosure time: I know Brian Michael Bendis, the architect of the current Marvel plot-lines like Dark Reign and Seige, very well. I also know Captain America writer Ed Brubaker fairly well, having known him almost since he was a teenager (and Bendis from back when he had hair). I like them, so I’m not going to bash them or anything. But I do need to point out where their politics can be a problem. Bendis is pretty smart about keeping his on the down low. From what I’ve read of his work, and I’ve read a lot, it generally doesn’t creep in that much. Just a dot here and there like you’d expect from a Hollywood writer. Brubaker lives in the San Francisco Bay area. And occasionally he’s thrown in some lefty views in his work. He generally doesn’t as a rule. But his latest Captain America crosses the line and it needs addressing.
Captain America #602, the latest issue, features a stand in for Cap, who was once his sidekick, Bucky Barnes. Bucky was “dead,” but has been revived from being a long term Soviet sleeper agent. He’s supposedly on our side again. Bucky/Cap and his sidekick, the Falcon, head to Idaho to stop a rogue version of Captain America from the 1950s (uh oh: 1950s = evil!) who’s allied himself with extremists, apparently. (The ’50s Captain America is from a classic 1970s story by Steve Englehart.) So what do they see when they go to Boise to find him? Why, marching “teabaggers,” of course.
As the Falcon (a black character) describes it: “A bunch of angry white folk.” And they’re carrying signs protesting high taxes and socialism. So naturally, they’re a bunch of evil rednecks, right? I mean, there are no “black faces there” not even the minstrel kind. Here is how Brubaker explains the story.
I’m trying not to put politics in the comics necessarily, but it’s hard when you’re doing a comic called Captain America not to reflect the world around you to some degree. I’d been planning this story for six months and suddenly there were all these tea parties everywhere. Since the tide has changed in government and the Democrats are in charge, the people who were in power for eight years are out in the wilderness, and they feel like they don’t have a voice anymore. And we’ve got this ’50s Cap who doesn’t know what he’s going to do. As I was planning this story, Obama won, and people start having tea parties and carrying signs that say “Obama is a Nazi” and it’s like “Oh God!” So I’m dealing a little with the disgruntled part of America in this storyline. It gets to both sides of it because I’m trying to be fair and balanced. [Laughs] I never set out to mock people…well, I do in life, but not in my work. I think whenever you’re writing a character you have to try and see their side of the story sympathetically. So this ’50s Cap as a character is someone who I’ve always seen sympathetically because his viewpoint is not mine, but I can get into his head and see where he’s coming from.
Well, first off he’s using the false premise so many Democrats have about the tea parties. That it’s specifically anti-Obama. That it’s all Republicans. All White people. Not surprising if Brubaker watched the usual MSM channels because that’s the narrative they’re selling. The truth is that many have left the Republican AND Democrats to become Independents because they’re sick of the way both parties have acted in the last decade. They’re tired of the games both parties have been playing. The tea party movement is Independent. And its anti-tax message is all about holding the government accountable for wasting our resources. Some tea partiers consider the wars a waste of money, some consider bureaucracy a waste. Many are sick of the nanny state. Many are sick of being pushed around and told that they’re stupid by media elites. But this comic has it that they’re all White (it’s set in Idaho, hello?). The Falcon goes into some redneck bar as a tax collector to get the attention of the ’50s Captain America and quickly gets pummeled by all the rednecks in Caterpillar hats — because that’s what they do to his kind around there, or something.
Needless to say, the scene is another classic lefty trope. But as #602 is part one, and the set up for part two, we’ll have to reserve judgement to see how he shows the “other side” in the next issue.
The subtext of this story is what’s the problem. Here we have Captain America going after people who are protesting government policies and taxation, which is not only their right, they’re doing it peacefully. But because they are protesting the government of Obama, that demands Captain America try to stop them? What kind of hero is this? OK, yes, he’s really there for the 50s Captain America who wants to be a “revolutionary.” But he’s somehow tied to the “tea baggers.” Again, tea party people aren’t violent. They cleaned up after their Washington DC protest site unlike the Obama inauguration people. But hey, any chance to stick it to the protesters. Because protest is wrong, man. When Democrats are in power, anyway.
So, let’s look at this in overview. The American government has put psychotic criminals in charge of the Avengers (still ongoing at the time of this story apparently), but the Bucky Captain America is trying to stop a peaceful protest of the government because that’s wrong? In other words, he is defending a fascist state and oppressing the little guy. That’s heroism, man! Stick it to those “teabaggers.”
Spider-Man co-creator Steve Ditko, an Objectivist, famously asked a bunch of comic pros if they could define what a hero was, and they couldn’t. You have to wonder if he would get the same response from the comics writers at Marvel and DC today.
It’s a problem if these companies really want readers. They’ve alienated a lot of them since their last heyday, the early 1990s. Considering that this is a center-right country it’s really not a great idea to keep pushing politics that are increasingly unpopular. Better to not get political at all, or at least know what you’re talking about.
And if you want to write about heroes, know what the word really stands for.
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264 Comments
DC stories and superheroes were always better – at least in the 1960's "Second Golden Age" of Comics.
I guess Marvel didn't realize that they will continue to lose audience with this kind of exposure. Why aren't they accused of Left-wing propaganda. If I made a conservative movie, that is what it would be shown as, propaganda.
I don't have any statistics on the comic book demographic, but there have to be some Conservatives that read them. Why would you want to spit in the face of people who buy your material?
Are any comics even fun to read these days? Or are they all a political slog to read?
Well, its like movies nowadays.
Ideologues are so desperate to make their messages known and slander the opposition they will shoot themselves and their business in the foot to do so.
Look, I know these people may be personal friends of yours but that doesn't mean that their worldview doesn't influence their art. All art has a world view.
I have personal friends that are lefties but I don't ignore their worldview or pretend that it doesn't help form their actions.
This latest development that finally moves Captain America to Comrade Amerika has been a long time coming.
Your line
Spider-Man co-creator Steve Ditko, an Objectivist, famously asked a bunch of comic pros if they could define what a hero was, and they couldn’t.
says it all. These writers are above such mundane and bourgeois concepts like Hero or Villain there are important ideas that must be forced upon us mere mortals.
Stan Lee is a major contributor to the Democrats and Marvel has jumped on every "progressive" bandwagon since the early 1980's. I gave up on comics long ago (putting away childish things is extremely liberating) but recognize the pernicious effects they have on the culture. I can't take the Captain America storylines very seriously since Marvel has been doing the "Maybe I should have fought less and questionned more" routine with the character since Watergate. (Remember when Cap became "Nomad"?)
I predicted last year that all the "gloom and doom" storylines would disappear with the coming of "The O" and that a creepy form of what the Left calls "patriotism" would become fashionable. I am not surprised that Marvel's editors will subtly (and not-to-subtly) get in shots against the Tea Party movement and conservatives especially if they keep gaining momentum. Besides who else can be the villains? Even mutants (evil or otherwise) are now protected by some comics code version of a "hate crimes" statute.
In my youth, during the late 1960s and early 1970s, even this avid DC fan read Marvel Comics under the aegis of Stan “The Man” Lee, particularly Captain America. I always got a warm glow when Cap gave his patented red-white-and-blue patriotic speeches. Cap was a man out of his time, having been frozen for 25 years after WW2, and it was refreshing to harken back to that less complicated era of unapologetic patriotism. Then, getting into the anti-war, anti-Vietnam swing, the power-that-be at Marvel went all in regarding leftist politics, and Captain American denounced his government, chunked his uniform and shield, and became Nomad. Well that was then, when it was patriotic to question your government, but this is now. Now Cap is after Tea Partiers with the same fervor as he went after Nazis and Commies. With the new Captain America film in the offing, it is sad to see how this once proud symbolic icon has fallen under such misguided, wrong-head editorial direction.
Did all of you catch that sign in the top left corner of the first graphic? When a comic book depicts us as racist that is nuts. I'm not a racist, I'm an American and if your in this country trying to speak the language making a semi-honest living, not breaking most laws(some are dumb and should be broken on a daily basis) – your an American.
Well, I for one hope this trend continues.Then maybe people will go back to, maybe, reading real literature. And I don't mean "graphic novels."
MArvekl is retracting some elements of this issue: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/09/tea-pa...
Progs have killed comics. Back in the day comics were conservative in nature (good vs. evil). Progs like to blur that line. Thus you get what you get out of them today.
Glad I got out when they were approaching $1/comic. The prices they charge, and the crap that is produced in them these days, make for a bad combination.
I didn't realize the comics industry was doing so well that they could afford to spit on so many prospective customers. If I were still reading comic books, this stunt would make me drop all Marvel titles the same way I dropped all DC titles back when Green Arrow went on a tear against the Second Amendment.
Captain America should be kicking terrorist butt.
When concepts of "No new taxes and "stop socialism" on placards somehow become dangerous and extremist..we got more problems than just a left leaning bias in a comic book. Was I the only one that noticed this? Apparently socialism and higher taxes are now the new America and the new American values?
Marvel's comic book line is living off the trough of its toys, cartoons and movies. Essentially, like a public enterprise leeching off of the private sector, and we know how that turns out.
If Marvel was interested in a profit – or at least a quality product, would Quesada still be in charge after all this time?
You wanted a waterline mark to know when to exacltly when to drain the pool? You got it. It is time. Take back your country..long live the Republic!
This comes as no surprise: http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/02/gall...
I am an avid comics reader and wrote to Ed the night this issue was released, voicing the same concerns. I felt betrayed and mocked by the very medium where "evil" isn't viewed as a passe concept. It is a place where relativism doesn't exist to the degree it has permeated the rest of our culture.
Ed promptly responded, and explained that an artist added the tea-bag references to the signs just before print, and that he would have it removed before the graphic novel edition is published, that he didn't intend for these protests to be representative of the tea-party movement. I think the timing is a little too coincidental to be anything else. I also think his portrayal of middle-America is one-dimensional. This is out-of-character for Ed Brubaker who is hands down one of the best writers in the comics industry.
The problem with writing for comics and Captain America in particular is that the writer has fifty-sixty years of precedent and context to write within. Def disappointing.
The problem with Ed's response is that it's not just the sign that's the problem. It's the whole page, which even without the sign has a very clear political statement in it that's offensive and juvenile. Given his own rather vociferous political comments, it's no big surprise that he went there.
But let's be honest about this: comic books have never been good at this sort of political commentary. Just look at the Marvel Civil War series, which was billed as a kind of serious comment on contemporary politics. It only made the writers look like politically ignorant high school students. The political commentary was laughable. They had no idea what they were talking about, and it was pretty clear that they got their political information from Jon Stewart. I was hoping for something with a bit more heft and nuance, and it had neither. They made fools of themselves. So I'm not surprised by this.
Ed Brubaker trying to be fair and balanced with his comic book works is just about as Keith Olbermann trying to be "fair and balanced" with his unhinged rants on camera. It's a good thing I didn't buy a single comic issue written by Brubaker since. Leftist politics does not belong to Captain America or any other Marvel character. Period.
I did complained to Marvel Corp. about the tea bag movement depiction in Captain America but my email comment got booted off from Marvel unread (no profanity was ever used).
He is back peddling, saying these people aren't "tea party" protesters. Well its obvious they are modeled after them. He's not fooling anyone. People see what he's doing
The problem with progressives and other secularists is that they have no absolute standard with which to judge. They cannot define what a hero is for that reason.
I was planning on seeing the Avengers movie. But since Marvel thinks I'm a racist maybe I'll have to reconsider. The entertainment industry loves to make big statements with their "art". I think I'll make my statement by not buying their "art". There are plenty of books in the library to fill my spare time.
I actually liked the premise of Civil War–if people existed who could shoot lightening out of their fingers, then I wouldn't really mind if the government knew who they were. But the story bogged down and the idea of heroes all being forced by the government to essentially join the army took, well, all the fun out of superhero-ing. I've essentially dropped comics more for fiscal than story reasons, but both major publishers unending trend of multiple issue, months long story lines (and that's YOU TOO, DC, with "Crisis, 52, More 52, Still more 52 and Blackest Night) hasn't lured me back. I'll buy the occasional collection, but a weekly pull is a thing of the past.
I agree. I think the real condescension occurs when Cap and The Falcon happen into "any-bar" Idaho and are able to conjure up enough race-hate to infiltrate the right-wing extremist group.
"The problem is, Marvel, like DC to a large extent, is run by and largely created by Progs these days. "
"They feel more comfortable in a groupthink environment. And this leads to a kind of “bubble mentality” that comes with living in an echo chamber. "
In the ad industry we say clients like this "are talking to themselves". Doesn't matter if the audience likes it, the middle manager (writer) and the CEO (publisher) like it… that's all that counts.
TPM is truth, justice, and the American Way.
Comics lost the kid market with the undeniable supremacy of the video game. There are kiddie books still, but most comic shop visitors are well beyond their teen years, so more grown up storylines would make sense, except that people tend to read comics for _escapism_. Heavy handed metaphors are going to cost them what's left of their shrinking readership. Most readers, regardless of their politics, don't pick up comics for the editorial content.
I'm a woman and and artist. I like graphic novels because of the gorgeous artwork and yes, complex storylines. Have you ever read one? Read Neil Gaiman's 1602 or his Sandman volumes and I dare you not to have some respect for "graphic novels". Oh, and by the way, I also read and enjoy plenty of "real literature". I'm not trying to be mean and I know my geekness is more than apparent, but my taste is diverse. I have as much respect for Jeph Loeb as I do for E.M. Forster. Now back to the topic. I just read Who is Wonder Woman…talk about progressive. I wanted to throw the volume away. The villans in the book seemed more like the heroes. Why is liberating hundreds of women from a sex trade operation and then destroying the men responsible wrong? Wonder Women thought it was??? Why wasn't she the one helping these women instead of the villan?
How many Black artists and writers does Marvel Comics have working for them? I'd wager it's a sea of white faces in that racist Stan Lee's pool of Good Ol' Boys.
Who's editor in chief at Marvel these days? Ellsworth Toohey III?
"Excelsior, true believers in the State!"
I'm really getting tired of the constant onslaught by the cultural elites against normal, everyday, concerned citizens of this country. America used to be far more tolerant and we all got along even if we didn't agree.
Now it's all about degrading middle America. It feels like an agenda.
That's it! We gotta make our own superheroes, comic books, & movies! THAT'S IT!!
That's exactly right and therein lies the problem.
Lest I rag on poor ol' Marvel, DC was qually guilty of politicizing its comic book line during the late 1960s and early 1970s.
How can one forget that post-Silver Age escapades of Green Latern and lefty Gree Arrow hunting for relevance?
I remember one particularly egregious Justice League of America (JLA) story written by Mike Friedrich dealing with the dumping of chemical weapon into the sea which poisoned the inhabitant of Atlantis. Aquaman got his swimming trunk into a major wad, and the JLA apologized for the transgression of the evil United States. Never mind that the U.S. was getting rid of these chemical weapons, or other countries, notably the Soviet Uion, had them. No, in a polemic worthy of our current president, the United States was the problem, not the solution, and Superman et al apologized for our sins.
Finally, The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller and The Watchmen by Allan Moore were both diatribe again Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher.
In the immortal words of Stan Lee: 'nuff said!
I've loved Brubaker's run on CAP, it's THE book I look forward to each month, but this issue really angered me. The Falcon/racist part was just a slap in the face… If I don't agree on how the government is being run, or how my taxes are being used, how does that make me a racist?!? It's also strange to me that ALL characters in Marvel seem to have the same political outlook. I would think that if anyone would have a different outlook on politics/morals/the world, it would be Bucky and Cap… they've both been transported from the 40s to today. I would think it would be more realistic to portray at least some characters with a different viewpoint, but Bucky and Falcon are shown chatting away in exactly the same political mindset. I'll still be buying the book, but it's sure dropped out of the top spot for me with this storyline.
I'd actually respect Brubaker more if he didn't :a) shift blame onto a 'letterer', and/or b) didn't treat his audience like idiots who couldn't get his hateful stance toward Free Speech that clearly permeates the book.
Save Me Falcon! Save Me! I'm getting beaten up by the SEIU!
Sorry, Kenneth Gladney, I can't help you. I'm off to save America from Capitalism and Global Warming.
But…but, Falcon! You were my Hero…Nnnoooooooo!!!!!
No Robert, they're all Korean.
It depends how you define 'terrorist'. For Brubaker it's the Tea Partiers. Probably how a certain English King felt as well.
But Civil War wouldn't have seen the light of day (no relation to DC) had it not been for the Patriot Act. Had Obama instituted the Act, a similar series might have been written, but with a reverse take, with the 'real' heroes defending the Act wholeheartedly (as Cap volunteered to work with Obama in the WWWTS issue.)!
This is a very weak retraction to say the least. And notice the writer commented how he was "shocked" at "obama is hitler" signs. Was he as shocked during the 8 years of protestors carrying "Bush is hitler" signs? Would love to be able to have a one to one conversation with this guy.
http://hollywoodpropaganda.wordpress.com
On the other hand, Ed Brubaker's Cap does carry a gun. Ed said one of his friends carried a gun and wasn't a nut.
I don't think that The Dark Knight Returns is a diatribe against Reagan – it struck me much more as a polemic against the folks who think that all enemies will respond to negotiation: c.f. the mayor.
I liked the premise too, until I realized that they were going with the "conservatives want registration" and "liberals don't want registration" line in some (actually, most) of the issues. Honestly, I could imagine a lot of conservatives being against registration, just like they're against gun registration. It could have been a wonderful way of cutting across partisan lines, but they blew it by being ideological. The implication was that the anti-registration characters were the real heroes, with Cap being the martyr. The whole point was to divide fans, to make them take sides. In the end, though, the story was so biased that everyone took one side. Which is what happens when all the writers are ideologically liberal. They completely lost the nuance that could have made the story great.
I actually really like Bendis' Dark Avengers, and, intentional or not, it really does lead itself to an Objectivist interpretation. The Marvel Universe has blurred the lines between heroes (Spider-Man or Captain America) and villains (Punisher) for so long that they're not only tolerating, but promoting villains in the persons of the Dark Avengers. Part of the series' conceits is that the villains are actually masquerading as famous heroes, which is about as patently chaotic as you can get in Objectivist terms. A=/=A, Venom =/= Spider-Man, and Norman Osborn =/= Tony Stark.
Despite his faults, Bendis is usually very good about being apolitical, leading to fiction that can actually be interpreted multiple ways. Which, you know, used to be a good thing.
I gave up on Marvel when they jumped the shark in the mid 90's. I remember when they some of the greatest artists like Jim Lee (X-Men) Todd McFarlane (Spider Man, Hulk). When they left I scrambled over to Image Comics with Spawn and the like. I do have a soft spot in my heart for DC comics since they always had the best writers and I cling to The Dark Knight Returns (Frank Miller's masterpiece). On a side note that is why I am happy about Batman Begins and The Dark Knight because they were the closest to the Frank Miller's vision of Batman.
Ed's obviously *not* trying to be fair and balanced. None of his work is. The politics are very clear in his work. That's not necessarily a problem. They are, after all, his books. He can write what he wants. However, this single page goes beyond comment to slander. He should be embarrassed by how ignorant it makes him look, but he's completely unaware of it. In his own echo chamber, that page is an eloquent example of speaking the truth. They probably all guffawed and did high fives after seeing it for the first time. They are ignorant of how ignorant they are. It's a scary thing.
It's hilarious that Watchman;'s stand out character is Rorschach, and he comes off the hero to most people.
Frank Miller was not trashing Ronnie exactly, but he was making fun of the politics of the day.
David, look who gave the orders to intervene to Superman and also look who appeared in the TV to talk mindlessly to the public about those Soviet nuclear missiles in Corto Maltese. It was the president — who looked like Ronald Reagan but drawn to look like Pruneface from Dick Tracy.
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Ronald_Reagan...
http://www.darkknight.ca/storylines/tdkr.html
http://www.allyngibson.net/?p=1950
Again, In the immortal words of Stan Lee: 'nuff said!
"It's also strange to me that ALL characters in Marvel seem to have the same political outlook."
I love these books, but this point also bugs me. It's what killed the Civil War storyline. Despite the promise of real conflict, these guys all think the same way, just like all Marvel's writers think the same way. The RIGHT way. The PROGRESSIVE way. It's silly, juvenile, and takes away from what could add quite a bit of depth to the world they inhabit.
Have these writers seen the anarchist protests at the G20 summits, whether those summits are held in other countries or here in ours (Seattle, Pittsburgh)? They destroy shops, smash bricks through bank windows, and battle those who try to keep the peace. Then again, those are Comrade Nancy Pelosi's kind of people. And you also see some of them with scarves wrapped around their face like the real cowards they are.
So much has been made from the Tea Party protests, but nary a word from these for more dangerous people.
I hardly think what was in the Miller graphic novel was exactly flattering toward Reagan:
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Ronald_Reagan...
Once again, in the immortal words of Stan Lee: 'nuff said!
I propose a comic book tax. I think the….um…"artist"…is clearly stating that he is in favor of taxes.
All in favor say "Aye!"
The Falcon can kick the Red Skull's butt and not break a sweat, but he's scared to death of a bunch of White folks waving anti-tax signs. Yeah, that issue would've made it into the round file when I was a kid, too.
I remember once reading an article by Christopher Priest in which he talked about his white editor and co-workers telling him that he wasn't writing Luke Cage black enough. The image of a bunch of white liberals lecturing a black man on how he doesn't know how black people talk is cringe inducing. But hey, it's we conservatives who are the racists. Priest had to settle for sneaking in little bits, like Cage thinking his angry black man routine isn't working while trying to get information out of someone, to try and suggest that it was just an act that Cage put on and that he was really more articulate than Marvel's editorial staff would allow.
Please, Jan, do enlighten us as to what you consider "real literature."
Politics and ruined superheros aside, oh, how I HATE literary snobs.
Maybe Captain America can make Roger Ebert his new side kick.
A Major Perceptual Failure upon the Left…and a good section of the Right about Tea Parties is that they are decentralized.
As an Analogy, I'll use a Technology Base. The GOP are Kinda Like Apple: Relatively well ordered, if narrow in scope, but usually a stable platform.
The Democratic Party is Like Microsoft: Big and encompassing, but the plaform is prone to crashing on occasion and riddled with compatability issues.
The Tea Party is much like Linux of Unix: There are many different flavours of Linux or Unix, but all generally perform the same function, are self-correcting of errors by the programmers, and have no leadership other than what the community wants.
And that's What drives both parties and the MSM up the wall. The Dems and GOP are closed source. the Tea-Parties are Open Source.
Can't wait to tune-up some of those purple-shirted SEIU superheros this summer. SLAM- BOOM!
Not CARTOONS!!!!!!!!!!! Of MEN IN TIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So then I must be a "literary snob" and PROUD OF IT!!!!!
This is just plain bad business. As a retailer I can tell you, Marvel just alienated half of my market. We’re struggling enough as it is. We depend on Marvel to appeal to a wide audience for the good of the industry and this time they have let us down. You may think this was funny or cute but our retail shop is already on the edge. Why would you do this to us?
Considering they're trying to get a Captain America movie franchise off the ground, I think it's a smart move for Marvel to lay off the political stuff. The folks on the left aren't the only ones who watch comic book movies.
Some perspective to show how far we've fallen: The first generation of costumed superheroes (Superman, Batman, Captain Marvel, etc) started at the very end of the 30’s, just as the winds of war were gathering. The first issue of Captain America appeared in early 1941, almost in anticipation of America's entrance into WWII. By 1942, every superhero (or "mystery men", as they said back then), from every publisher, was portrayed as being an unofficial part of the US Armed Services. DC Comics had the Justice Society of America, Timely (later to be known as Marvel) had the All-Winners Squad, etc. There was usually some sort of attempt to explain why it was that America's caped battalion didn't just go over to Germany and Japan and win the war immediately–they had to "guard the homefront" while all of our boys were fighting over there–although they dealt with their fair share of German and Japanese spies on US soil, and villains who were often allied with the Nazis somehow. Clark Kent tried to enlist, but was humorously rejected when he accidentally read the eye chart from the next examination room with his X-ray vision, thereby being classified as 4-F for his poor eyesight. Nevertheless, every superhero always exhorted his young audience to "keep 'em flying", to send their previously read comics to the boys overseas, participate in scrap metal drives, etc.
Compare this with today: Could you even imagine a superhero of today being portrayed as even vaguely hostile towards al-Qaeda, Iran, North Korea, etc? To say nothing of the possibility of showing, say, the Fantastic Four or the Teen Titans bust up a terrorist plot on US soil? Impossible to conceive.
Captain America is an even more special case. All but a very small number of superheroes disappeared by the end of the 40's–other genres became more popular for a time. By the late 50's, new versions of the old characters entered the fray, and in the early 60's Stan Lee and Jack Kirby kicked off a true renaissance with their mostly brand-new characters. For whatever reason, they decided to revive Captain America from "suspended animation" so that he was “a man out of time”. After some initial success for the new Captain America series (Yes, I know he joined the Avengers–I’m talking about his solo comic), there was a quick realization that without an obvious enemy, a character whose main element was that of a sort of embodiment of patriotism did not lend itself to the more science-fiction-y approach of the 60’s comics. For quite awhile, CA’s solo comic featured “Untold Tales from Captain America’s War Diary”.
Eventually, the escalation of US involvement in Vietnam allowed for a contemporary take on CA: “Everything was so black and white during WWII. Now all I see is gray. I’m not sure whether my country is in the right anymore. What does America really stand for in this brave new world? If America is in the wrong, then why am I wearing this costume?” To a greater or lesser extent, this existential quest has been the bread and butter of Cap’s adventures for 35 years.
This latest plotline does not surprise me, just saddens me. Isn’t there room in the modern world for some comics that are unabashedly pro-US in their orientation? Not even propaganda, just not automatically viewing regular Americans as evil ignorant racists.
btw, when this story first caught my eye, I told the guys on Red Eye to cover it. They were supposed to do it last night, but it got bumped. Let’s hope they do it tonight.
I read Buffy and Angel and the Serenity series in comic book form. Graphic art is amazingly beautiful and I'm pleased to have found comic books for the first time in my life. I bought Jim Butcher's "Welcome to the Jungle" and Koontz's "Odd Thomas" graphic novel. It takes as long to read a graphic novel as it does to read a book, because every frame is dense with information and story. Beautiful, absolutely beautiful, this new medium of storytelling.
I don't know of these "Marvel" comics of which you speak. They sound pretty old and tired to me.
All the stories of good vs. evil are all gone and we are left with the political rants of some left-wing comic writers.
I quit comics when the writers lost sight of what a hero was.
It's very simple. Don't buy Marvel comics. These people are coming out of the woodwork, aren't they. Hurt them where it matters.
Yes, because that's all graphic novels are about. If it's not your cup of tea, why must you put down those who do like it?
Or are you just a liberal troll? Because I find that the liberals are always telling me what I should and shouldn't do, and what I should and shouldn't like.
You are not a literary snob, you are an elitist literary snob which is far worse. Show some intelligence and open up your narrow mind. Because if "MEN IN TIGHTS" is all you have well, you really do come across as not very smart.
No, Miller actually left room for some ambiguity in his portrayal of Batman (Commissioner Gordon: I couldn't judge it. I couldn't judge him. He's too…big…").
OTOH, Watchmen very definitely reflects Alan Moore's paranoia about what he viewed as a sort of creeping fascism; he cheerfully admitted that Watchmen was an anti-Reagan, anti-Thatcher diatribe. By using Nixon in his 5th term as a stand-in for Reagan, he was able to tell his story.
But I have to point out: The horrible fate that Moore feared so greatly (a Cold War on steroids, with the US and the USSR literally about to have an all-out nuclear exchange) did not happen. Reagan, Thatcher, Pope John Paul II, Lech Walesa, and Boris Yeltsin won the Cold War. The core thesis of Watchmen has been totally disproved by the flow of history.
So somebody explain to me why I still think Watchmen was a terrific comic book? (And I loved the movie last year also, btw…)
You now, maybe it's because of my strange upbringing in the backwoods of New Hampshire, but I always had a soft spot for Captain America. I remember buying a bunch of his comics back in the early 90's and enjoying his fights with the Red Skull. But, I was always disappointed by his constant working for the government, and constantly being in New York (yes, as a good New Hampshire boy, I was ardently anti-government, and as a good New Englander, I was ardently anti-yankees [yankees suck!]).
I can't say I'm surprised by this development. Comics have been extremely liberal since, well, probably the 70's. I remember one writer in particular would go on these long screeds about Bush being the devil, and horribly damaging America in the world. He said he was an Army Ranger and he personally saw the atrocities, and still knew many people internationally that hated the country. Turned out, he lied about rh whole thing. He was never an Army Ranger, and didn't even have a passport. Wish I could remember that guy's name.
I always liked the staunch anti-communism of the early 1960's Marvel stories. And of course, they kept a fairly black and white DC universe until the dreadful, terrible geoff johns took it over. The last comics I remember really enjoying were Grant Morrison's JLA from the 90's. No politics, no breast-beating, or self-introspection about what;s "really" right "really". Just good guys beating the crap out of bad guys. Good stuff.
Like you, I was a big Marvel fan in the '60s and '70s. The Silver Surfer is still da bomb. Sad to see Cap turning into an SEIU tough guy.
For Many Many Years I said "Make Mine Marvel" That was until about 2 years ago when Marvel decided to let the bad guy prevail and killed Captain American in a most unpatriotic way. On that Day After 20 years of comic collected I said Make Mine any thing but Marvel and Voted with my wallet. I have still collected comics but haven't purchased any comics from Marvel.
I wish Joe Quesada all the luck in the world but feel at the same time if he wants to bring back the 48% of the American population that is a little more independent or conservative he might consider cleaning house at Marvel and fire Ed and several of the writers that took them in the direction that has alienated us from reading the stories.
One of the great things about super heros always has been that they are defined by their strengths and weakness. Captain American has always be defined by his one strength and weakness as strong unwaviering character of honor and justice and his strong hardworking middle American social class. take that away and you have lost the character entirely.
Let Liberty Prevail
I haven't bought a Marvel Comic since I was in junior high. This is absolutely despicable.
DC has all the real heroes. In Green Lantern #49, John Stewart uses a Marine sniper construct to dispatch of a bad guy.
And in another Green Lantern, Hal Jordan made up constructs of veterans from each war to beat down a group of Chinese and Russian super-soldiers.
DC also has Green Arrow…
Here is Priest's full commentary about the "controversial" issue of Power Man and Iron Fist you speak of
[Issue #122 is also ground-breaking in that, here Cage admits his "loud angry Negro" routine is a put-on something many whites do not realize. Many whites are shocked to see Queen Latifa or Usher or the late Tupac Shakur in film or on television shows speaking in complete sentences with a calm, even voice. It seems many whites don't realize the gregarious street voice is something we can turn on and off.]
Try the Fables series by Willingham.
Hey, nobody's perfect.
OKAY, you win. WOMEN IN TIGHTS!!!!
Geoff Johns' Green Lantern comics is not about good vs. evil?
I'm not a rabid Johns fan, but his "Sinestro Corps War" storyline was an unapologetically pro-liberty/anti-terrorist as a superhero comic can get.
It's been over a year since I purchased my last comic book. The politics of the writers was the reason why I dropped it. Everything from Mark Millar (writer of Marvel's "Civil War") equating the U.S. in Iraq as Naziism, Spider-Man essentially making a deal with a demon to save his grandmother or Grant Morrison writing a Superman who had no problem with genetically-engineered lifeforms to work essentially as slaves (All-Star Superman, by the by) finally just got to me.
These guys do not get it. There's no color. There's just a dull gray that obscures any inspiration a hero is to provide. I do not miss visiting my local comic shop.
I meant Aunt May, not "grandmother". My bad.
I gave up on Marvel years ago, in the early 80's the art work was terrible and the stories were cookie cutter, no substance only glitz. The heros they had didn't act like regular people. I normally stuck to DC since they had better art work and some of their titles were more adult oriented. Little by little they became progressively less interesting and more repedative. For the last 10 years I have been buying titles from the independents and only those whose artist were up to snuff.
As someone said elsewhere in the netisphere :
Dear Marvel,
I'd like to see Iron man 2, but I don't have to.
I want to see it less now than I did before.
Explains a lot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JQpKeyN39c
(cont.)
*Wildguard – a clever, action-packed comic on the challenges of standing by principles in realm of reality TV
http://www.wildguard.com/
*Spider-Girl – kid-friendly futuristic comic about Spider-Man's crimefighting daughter
http://www.amazon.com/Spider-Girl-Vol-Legacy-Amaz...
*Astro City – a Silver Age-style comic that explores the world of superheroes from a character-driven perspective. The story below is one of my favorites:
http://www.astrocity.us/cgi-bin/index.cgi?page=fe...
*Captain Gravity – a fun,pulp-style superhero comic that is “Indiana Jones meets the Rocketeer”:
http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/25/captain-...
Yes. It is important to remember these progs are not elites in the sense of having real accomplishments or brains. They are elites only in the sense that they think very highly of themselves and happen to have a bullhorn. By and large, the country wouldn´t miss them if they all went away. Unlike plumbers.
It's possible, I haven't read Johns in probably close to a decade. I've always despised his writing. At first, it was because everything he wrote seemed to be dependent on me reading some obscure Infinity Inc. comic from 1983, and was filled with way too many continuity winks to the audience. After that, he just became way too violent and misogynistic in his writing (and people complained about Ron Marz because he killed off Kyle Rayner's girlfriend). It's possible John is currently writing a anti-terrorist story as you say, but I'm sure he's filled with all kinds of extreme violence (and not the normal comic book violence of people punching each other, I mean stuff like having a woman get a pike run through her gut, as I understand happened recently).
Plus, a multi-colored Lantern Corps is just lame. Even for comics.
Folks like Jules Feiffer have long connected the superhero genre with fascism, and fascism as a philosophy of the left seems right at home in mainstream comics like the Marvel universe. In that light, it seems quite natural that superheros would be fighting activists who were looking to dial back government control as the Tea Party movement is the most authentic anti-fascist movement in the country right now.
I read comics to escape reality which is why Marvel and DC are dead to me now and Manga is my new escape.
Marvel has always been a far lefty label, which is why I always preferred DC when I was a kid
You know, I find this thread fascinating. First, because I had no idea that there were so many comics readers out there. I always kind of figured it was my own personal thing, and most everybody else grew up and forgot about it.
Secondly, everyone seems to agree that the end of the 90's coincided with the end of their comic reading, or at least consistent comic reading. And I'm just wondering what happened there. Duuring the 90's comic readership declined rapidly. When almost every other hobby was gaining hobbyists and experienceing boom times thanks to the economy and the increased social ability of the internet, allowing people to connect in ways never before; comics took a nosedive and were barely able to stay stable (often failing even at that).
I'm wondering, what does everyone think caused the decline? Was it politics? Lack of qality? Inept people running the business, not able to take advantage of the new media? Bad luck? Something else entirely?
The question then becomes how does the ad agency (in this case, the audience) get the CEO (publisher) and his managers (writers) to trust us. I don't know the answer, but because declining comic book sales alone doesn't seem to communicate the idea there needs to be another way, especially when they can rely on licensing their properties to carry the comics.
I think it will take a revelation at the top– who can then hire talented writers to better reflect the American audience as a whole. Archie comics creator, John L. Goldwater, was born in New York but left during the Depression looking for work while hitchhiking his way to the Midwest. Here he met people who influenced his characters and who were also his potential audience.
From the New York Times (March 2 1999) "The guiding idea, Mr. Goldwater always said, was simple. It came down to Archie. ''He's basically a square, but in my opinion the squares are the backbone of America,'' he told The New York Times in 1973. ''If we didn't have squares we wouldn't have strong families.''
The formula clearly hit a responsive nerve. The comic strip once ran in 750 newspapers. Comic book sales sometimes reached 50 million a year, though they have leveled off at about 15 million a year."
Now, of course, I am not saying everything can or should be "Archie", but today's publishers and many of the writers live, work and spend all their time in New York and the North East blue states. Only some of their audience is there. If they get out and meet their audience where their audience lives and works in everyday life they might get that epiphany.
everything was better back in the early 60's…………before obozo was brought to America ……… to further the moooolism terror on America
the comic fools know that they have to defend the indefensible obama as America is rejecting him and his agenda of America hatred
comic fools are fighting for their best customers and their continued ignorance and mooch rights
naaaa …………. their all moooslims working the America bashing into the comic propaganda on the young skulls of mush
Nuff said.
The problem is that Ed Brubaker is inserting leftist politics into my favorite Marvel character, a powerful symbol of the United States of America. Captain America takes no side in politics or ideology, he represents the whole country. That's why I won't buy and read any comic book subtly inserted with leftist politics and progressive ideology. Unfortunately, the majority of comic book readers have been poisoned with them for years.
It seems the Glenn Beck parody in the Marvel title Siege: Embedded has been overlooked as well. A news commentator is blaming all Asgardians for the Soldier Field incident, and calling them illegal aliens to boot. The PoV character derides this commentator as small-thinking and hate inducing.
And the rebuttal by Joe Quesada was disingenuous as well. He claimed that no writer was allowed a soapbox on Marvel titles, yet look at the Stephen Colbert tie-ins that Marvel had during the election of 2008. I never saw a George W. Bush fist-bump with Spider-Man. I could go on about it, but really – why? I have stopped purchasing all Marvel titles after this Captain America #602. Quesada states that we have to read the entire four-issue arc to appreciate the viewpoint of The Falcon. No thanks.
tl;dr Marvel's Damage Control is weak-sauce.
@Jan
Actually, Marvel Comics has begub printing graphic novel versions of Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice" and "Sense and Sensibility." Read the full story by clicking this link and scrolling down to "Spotlight":
http://www.worldmag.com/articles/16347
I hate that they cast Nathalie Portman in the Thor movie. But there shouldn't be anyway for them to politicize Thor. Or could they . . . ?
Chuckie Schumer is kinda scary that way.
Yes, there are a lot better comics out there than in the "mainstream" which really isn't and hasn't been in a long time.
The only comic thats worth reading anymore is the Green Lantern, Geoff Johns does a good job of keeping politics out of his work and artist Ethan Van Sciver is a very hardcore conservative. The Green Lantern has always been viewed for the most part as a conservative
Actually, early 60s Stan Lee stories had the heroes fighting communists. They were very anti-red in the Kennedy era
I can write a piece about that. I will at some point. I was there, working in the industry when it crashed. I eventually left toward the end of the 90s. The short answer is a speculator boom and crash. baseball card speculators drove up that business and crashed it, so they moved on to comics. Its' very similar to the housing bubble. When people go crazy buying something and driving up prices, there will be a crash. The companies cranked out tons of drek to meet the demand and ended up driving away customers.
Marvel demonstrates where their hatred lies by using the vile and disgusting terms for constitution supporting and Law abiding productive Americans. marvel has not the slightest idea what that is and you can verify that by the content of their slime.
i tis sad that these people actually believe in statism and slavery. They havn't got a clue what The Constitution or Freedom is.
Mr. America is not.
Death to Tyrants and Corrupt Comic Book Characters.
Gail Simone seems to be siding with Brubaker, calling the critics "crazy reactionaries". *sigh* It's getting so I can't pick up a comic book anymore without worrying about whether he's putting money in the pocket of someone who hates everything I stand for.
As for this latest controversy… well, Marvel's done enough over the past few years to piss comic fan off.
For the foreseeable future, Make Mine DC!
The top panel of the final story page of issue 602 has the militia talking about their new recruits: the undercover Cap (Bucky) and a "couple of ex-soldiers, just back from the Middle East." That fits with Brubaker's stated timeline for writing this crap cake of a comic. Apparently he swallowed that ridiculous DHS report whole.
I've been distrubed by Marvel since the whole civil war storyline. Hearing that Captain America is now targeting Tea Partiers isn't oo surprising.
Second generation imitation……..a bad business model…..let's say out worn business model……should be enough to put them out of business soon. a small burst of die hard progressive socialists all run out and buy one; lorne greene does his usual boring imitation skit that stopped being funny at least seven years ago…….the obsessive compulsive put away a copy in plastic zip bags and the rest of america continues to ignore the msm, and sub cultures like comic books thereof, while they , like little robby gibbs, get a chuckle at the expense of all those dumb hick tea baggers………and they want to know why they can't things together…..
Comics just got too expensive for me and when I changed jobs in '97 and needed to find a new comic shop because the old shop, located near the old job, was no longer convenient for me to go to I decided it was a good time to give up the habit. Since then I've only picked up a few graphic novel collections of Astro City, Hellboy, and Sin City. But even before I dropped comics completely I was moving away from DC and Marvel to the independent books that were much better in quality.
For me it was the bandwagon of sociopathy as every hero was given the Alan Moore/Frank Miller treatment and that become the new tired status quo.
The books haven't really recovered but the times they depict have gotten more interesting by default so I have been reading again since 9/11.
I am still waiting for the majors to write their premiere titles to honestly reflect ALL of the world's bad guys, but it will likely be a long time coming.
"So naturally, they’re a bunch of evil rednecks, right? I mean, there are no 'black faces there'"
What about that black guy at one of the healthcare town halls? You know, the one carrying an "assault" rifle who we were supposed to believe was representative of the crazy, violent Right?
Oh, I forgot, he didn't have a face, since the MSM deliberately withheld his blackness, for whatever reason.
"He was never an Army Ranger, and didn't even have a passport. Wish I could remember that guy's name. "
Jesse MacBeth
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2...
Brother Hudnall, you are so right on with your comments. The minute I heard about the furor over Captain America, I was looking forward to get your take on it. I can't add much to what you've already said, but I do have to say that although I don't agree at all with Brubaker's politics, but I've have a little more respect for his work and that of his fellow leftie writers if they would at least do some research. I like his line about reflecting on the world around him; what kind of worldview does anyone think he gets from living in San Fran. Maybe he should think about actually going out into the world and taking a good look at what his president is doing to this country .
Because they *obviously* believe the MSM propaganda that the members of the Tea Party Movement are really just disgruntled Republicans. Republicans = Red Necks = illiterate.
Can we point out that this isn't the real Cap, but that wannabe Bucky!
Portman is like minded idiot in hollywood.
JoeQ is feeling the heat. Said that 'teabagging' will be removed in future editions. Too little, too late.
You nailed it. I've loved Brubaker's run as well. Knowing his politics, I'm surprised that he's done such a good job keeping them out of the storyline (for the most part). It is not one sign in a crowd that ruins this story. The problem is Ed's politics weave through the whole thing. It not only offended me personally, but the quality of the book was far below his usual standards.
I was at a Tea Party and most of the folks there had all their teeth. Me too.
Wow up until I read this I was working very hard to pass my love of Marvel Comic along to my 11 year old son. I won't be purchasing their comics, movies or "stuff" anymore. Truly sad that Lefties have to spill their drivel into all of Americana.
Anyone know a good Comic that's either neutral or even Right oriented? Guess I'll stick with Bible Man, lol.
I actually like the "Tea bag the libs before they tea bag you" line. Thats my new motto!
When I was in Medical School in Spain I always got 95 or better in my grades, and if I got a 90 I would sit with the other students and wait to discuss my grade face to face with the professors.
There was this Communist professor of OBGYN who gave me a 90. So I did as usual. After demonstrating that he had not been fair (and after he corrected the grade I got to 100) he said something like 'I am impressed you got the only 100. I thought you people from the right only have suffient intellect to read comicbooks like 'Little Lulu'". So I told him, answering your test was easy, once I understood the questions were coming from your few publications. Your ego gave you away. And -by the way- I do read comicbooks: and my favorite character is Captain America".
That was true…this is why I know Captain America would kick Obamas azz to Kingdom come, along with all the Obama Czars.
Marvel Comics is making a huge mistake…the Tea Party is a reincarnation of our Founders.
The main 'heroes' in Marvel aren't really heroes anymore. THey're also not clearly defined as whomever their supposed to be. Reed Richards became a mad scientist who created a Clone Thor for some reason that got someone killed while he helped Tony Stark lock people in a prison who didn't register their super-powered identies then he's portrayed as the same old Reed Richards after that time like it didn't matter. Cap and Iron Man started a war against each other in an unbelievable fashion then Cap just says 'I quit' after 7 issues of delayed plotless action. Spider-man is the worst of them all, he's a magical Satanic moron. As for the Bucky Captain America, apparently we're the enemy.
Marvel comics are really terrible now, their all stretched out, hyped up, false leading ideas and no substance to them.
I really Miss M
He lives near San Fran, not in it. But it's the same difference.
Yeah, Obama Nation which is free n this site every Sunday.
His comics in the 60s were very anti-communist
You'll still be buying the book??!! Are you so starved for entertainment that you'd actually FEED these idiots?
Read Seige – Embedded and you'll see a direct parody of Glenn Beck. He's a yes man to Norman Osborne. I read issue one and decided I wouldn't be reading the rest of that series.
However, they are leaving in the line where he states because it's a mostly white crowd they must essentially be racist.
Everyone knows progressives live in an imaginary world where they are 100% equitable and correct in all of their thinking. They are simply a cut above, better educated, more enlightened and have open minds. So of course it is only natural to call out the ignorant and flaming rascist tea baggers every chance they get.____My god I can't even imagine being such a smug and self-rightious prick! Must be cause I'm a just dumb, illiterate tax protester… ____I am through with Ed Brubaker. Shame cause he's a terrific writer. I had already decided to drop every Marvel comic after seeing a preview somewhere referencing "tea baggers." Only a new E.I.C. would convince me to even consider any Marvel product again.
Though there are a few top-notch Marvel and DC comics (Iron Man, Black Panther, Great Ten), independent comics are getting a lot more of my money. Some examples:
Licensed comics from indies like Incredibles
http://www.boom-studios.net/the-incredibles-famil...
and Buck Rogers:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=user_revi...
As I said, too little, too late.
And these guys are far left at Marvel. I didn't notice any fistbumps between Spider-man and President Bush?
What's sad is Marvel has the Captain America movie coming out next year (or 2012) and they're sowing the seeds of a suppressed box office, which might kill the two sequels they have planned.
For years a Cap movie has been in development hell. One main gripe has been, " This guy can't play overseas. People don't like America anymore and a guy running around wearing Old Glory won't sell", (Wonder Woman has a similar problem with her patriotic uniform, too) So marvel allows Brubaker, whose work I really enjoy, to piss off the group of people most likely to support a Captain America movie. Since it's set in WW2, i am asuming that Cap will be pro-American. If he's some left wing milquetoast slacker, the movie will bomb. Still, who's gonna see it in the 1st place, the left or the right? You thnk the Garafelos of the world want to see Cap kick Nazi ass? To those people, Cap is a nazi!
The idea of alienating your movie ticket buying fan base is simply foolish.
in the final sequel, i'd like to see Cap and the Avengers kick the hell out of Hollywood.
Jan, you are of course entitled to your opinion, even if you have no Idea what you are talking about. Comic books are not all about super heroes. The comic book is merely a "medium" like any other. And it features works of every genre. Super heroes are simply the most popular, that is a fact. Like any novel, TV show or movie, some comics are brilliant and some are mundane and many suck. But your notion that the marriage of illustration and narrative is somehow a form that is always worthless outside of childhood is simply ignorant. In my opinion you will never have a well rounded veiw of literature if you have never read Watchmen or The Dark Knight Returns. And those are super hero books…
Agree Bob… Captain America was ALWAYS my #2 Superhero (other than Bats.). And Brubaker and others have twisted the character so badly that he's not been "My" Captain America in ages….
(cont.)
In terms of original superheroes from independents:
*Captain Gravity – a fun,pulp-style superhero comic that is “Indiana Jones meets the Rocketeer”:
http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/25/captain-...
* Wildguard – a clever, action-packed comic on the ethical challenges of reality TV
http://www.wildguard.com/
*Invincible, a entertaining, fresh twist on traditional superheroes that avoids politics.
Okay, there was the not-so-subtle dig at global warming alarmists:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&a...
Otherwise Robert Kirkman is most interested in macho superheroes and pretty superheroines engaged in thrilling fights with evil alien invaders.
Well, I can't argue with you about the violence in the Sinestro Corps War.
As for the multi-colored Latern Corps concept, how is that more "lame" that Green Lanterns being vulnerable to the color yellow?
Iron Man was blatantly anti-communist when you look at how many of his early foes hailed from the Soviet Union.
James you have summed up how I left comics. Last year I just gave up,because of these types of stories. Well put thank you.
[What does “swashbuckling,” which refers to pirates,...]
You might want to look up swashbuckling in the dictionary.
Well said, Snackrabbit.
Snackrabbit is actually one of the cooler screen names around.
Hell no, he wouldn't. I am waiting along time to see him go. But he'll likely be followed by another asshat.
Hey, I did a post of how Spidey and Wolverine both celebtrated (like most of the Marvel Universe) about support Obama. Ugh!
http://valley-of-the-shadow.blogspot.com/2009/12/...
Let me fix that….
"about supporting Obama." Ugh!
Lest I rag on poor ol' Marvel, DC was wqually guilty of politocizing its comic book line during the late 1960s and early 1970s.
How can one forget that post-Silver Age escapades of Green Latern and lefty Gree Arrow hunting for relevance?
I remember one particularly egregious Jutice League of America (JLA) story written by Mike Friedrich dealing with the dumping of chemical weapon into the sea which poisoned the inhabitant of Atlantis. Aquaman got his swimming trunk into a major wad, and the JLA apologized for the transgression of the evil United States. Never mind that the U.S. was getting rid of this chemical weapons, or other countries, notably the Soviet Uion, had them. No, in a polemic worthy of our current president, the United States was the problem, not the solution, and Superman et al apologized for our sins.
Finally, The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller and The Watchmen by Allan Moore were both diatribe again Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher.
In the immortal words of Stan Lee: 'nuff said!
@Gunner
Here are some great picks
* The Incredibles – the comic book sequel to the superb Pixar blockbuster:
http://www.boom-studios.net/the-incredibles-famil...
* Wildguard – a clever, action-packed and familycomic on the ethical challenges of reality TV
http://www.wildguard.com/
*Captain Gravity – a fun,pulp-style superhero comic that's Indiana Jones meets the Rocketeer:
http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/25/captain-...
"they feel like they don’t have a voice anymore."
Really?
*sigh*
Okay, guys, let's try this again: "CAN YOU HEAR US NOW?"
Each of us has a voice, moron. Listen up.
I say its time for Andrew to launch Big Comic Book!
Yes, I know it refers to 16th century swordsmen. But the term was popularized in later years to refer to pirate movies. Yeah, I know the Three Musketeers also are swashbucklers, none of that has to do with heroism by the way. Bad guys can be swashbucklers.
(cont.)
[This is a concept I explored briefly in THE FALCON limited series, but it was too subtle. No one seemed to notice The Falcon spoke to whites in a fairly straight-ahead speech pattern, but turned on the "street talk" when he needed to communicate to the gang leaders. During that project, I was accused by Marvel staffers of writing, "bad black dialogue" and of being "too white" to write black people in comics because I didn't write The Falcon hip enough. The Falcon, in his civilian identity, was a social worker, which meant, at minimum, he had a masters in social work, a degree he could hardly attain without having taken at least remedial English.]
http://www.digital-priest.com/home-dpdc.htm
As far as I'm concerned, Marvel went way downhill after the Onslaught storyline. Comics definitely were better in the 90's.
I would definately start with Green Lantern Rebirth and work your way through the Blackest Night. Geoff Johns does a good job of keeping politics for the most part out. And artis Ethan Van Sciver is a very conservative guy.
Bah I'm taking this way too hard but alas I've been tied to the good Captain since my childhood in the 70s when my dad would come home once a month from his thankless 12 hour a day manufacturing job with a stack full of comics for his kids. Being the youngest and smallest I mostly got stuck reading Archie, Casper, his brain damaged cousin Spooky or the lousy DC titles(Back when Batman was fighting lame-o villains like Liberace-foppish Gentleman Ghost, Superman's Arch nemesis Lex Luthor would continually phone it in like a piss poor Wile E. Coyote and Sergeant Rock would mow down a 100 krauts that couldn't shoot straight.. yet again) when the dog pile cleared. But once in awhile I'd come up clutching a cool read like Spiderman, The Avengers or my fave Captain America.
The good Captain and his cool ass bud the Falcon had better things to do than challenge the Legion Of Doom to a baseball game (Yeah DC you really sucked that bad). The Maestros of Marvel had him tracking down and walloping the living hell out of threats to this nation like Serpent Squad, VIPER, Dr. Faustus, Baron Zemo, AIM and of course the foulest incarnation of evil possible: The Red Skull. Back then it didn't matter if your folks were Democrats or Republicans the important thing was the Cap was knocking fascist loogeys out of the Red Skulls mouth with his shield from every angle possible while representing the Stars and Stripes. No matter how the baddies stacked the odds against him, He like America always came out a winner. But I like many kids my age grew up, dated girls got liquored up, got sick, got educated, got a job and left my childhood heroes next exploits for the kids to follow.
So why should this colostomy bag on two legs selfishly stuffing his lefty agenda into one of my former fave comic books surprise me? TV shows have been doing it for years. Hell, Diane English got rich peddling her crapbag of political indoctrination to fat, angry chicks for years. The News has devolved from telling us what happened to dictating to us what we should think lest we be mere rubes. Why not comic books? I remember a couple years ago being excited to watch an Avengers special event on Cartoon Network with my kids, but ended up bleakly laughing at the PC stupidty of it all. Not only had Nick Fury undergone a skin transplant to meet affirmative action standards, but the God of Thunder Thor famous in Norse mythology for his murderous rage and eating Whales was now a unhinged, Save the Whales candyass doling out justice with his hammer to those evil whalers. Totally bush league bs.
So why does this piss me off? It pisses me off because the Hero of my childhood represented America. Now (and no, it doesn’t matter if it’s not Steve Rogers ) he’s just lib pitchman, a mere commercial for a select portion of America, A trademarked in-the -tank propaganda ho-bag like Babs Streisand or Dan Rather. This in turn pisses the history we had as character and young, excited reader down the drain. My personal boycott is on until they fire colostomy bag boy. No comics, no overhyped movies no nothing. Marvel Comics is now F#$%STAIN Publishing in my book.
So by all means F#$%STAIN publishing make your new Captain Libagendica, stomp on evil capitalists that use plastic bags, drive a red, white and Blue Prius, Get hitched and settle down with Doc Strange in a cozy Conneticut village hanging out drinking organic Chardonnay with Keithy Olbermann and for all I care…..Cuz I’ll settle for that lame-o issue of Batman or Kamandi the last Boy on earth now.
Sorry for the long post…I Lost a childhood hero today..
"Atomic Robo" by Brian Clevinger (published by Red 5 Comics) is a lot of fun and has stayed pretty neutral so far.
Also "Invincible" by Robert Kirkman (Image) is very cool. Sometimes violent, but cool.
That bit with Thor and the whaling ship really was God awful.
I have been reading comics for about more than 15 years now and yet I also have a large collection of military technothrillers and science fiction novels in my book shelf. Last I checked we had something called FREEDOM OF CHOICE in this society. What? Should I stop watching going to movie theaters and watch broadway plays instead because they're supposed to be "Real" theater?
Agreed. Both are lame. That's why I always like Kyle Rayner's "gas tank" limitation. Made the ring seem less like a present from magical fairies and more like a piece of incredibly advanced technology with a battery that needed recharging.
Sheesh…I'm sure glad I'm not some ret*rd who
still reads comic books as an adult. Wasn't
Stan Lee a CPUSA member when he was an
impressionable youth?
You know the country is in a sorry state when boycotting against socialism and new taxes is considered unamerican. By Captain America, no less. Sigh…
I'm not sure I buy the speculator bubble explanation. Certainly that had a lot to do with the drop from 1993 sales numbers to 199 sales numbers, but comics continued to hemorrhage readers well into the 2000's. Hell, ignoring the bubble, comics were selling better in 1988 than in 1998 (don't know about 2008, I'm sure the movies have helped a bit, although probably not much). Plus, as has been mentioned elsewhere on thsi thread, Manga has exploded, and was exploding at the exact same time American comics were crashing and burning.
Opps, should be "1993 sales number to 1995 sale numbers"
Have to agree with that. Hated all the introspection and handwringing. Just punch the bad guy and be done with it.
I missed those issues. That's a real shame. Especially them promoting Obama like that. It really shows how out of touch they are to push a candidate on the public.
It might not be your cup of tea, but the new Batgirl series that just started is excellent. Fun, well written, and completely devoid of politics.
Um… protesting new taxes is now bad!? *laughs*
Talk about these wonkies losing touch!
The Schlock Mercenary webcomic tends to just tell a story.
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/
(Beware, it's been running since June 2000 without any delays. So catching up might take awhile.)
And the American comics biz wonders why it's just a faint shadow of the new translated manga comics in terms of sales. Manga are about fun and good stories and making the reader have a good time. Characters and good or bad based on their actions, not if they are a supporter of the Japanese ruling political elite.
Not to mention they stories cover a range that is probably 10 times as wide as the very narrow range of genres covered my American comics. To be fair, Japan produces (literally) more than ten times as many comics in a day than America does in a year, so the pool of quality material is larger to draw on, but still….
There are very good American comics out there. But they are not superhero comics. American superhero comics are moribund. If I want to read a superhero comic I'd much rather read a manga like "A Certain Scientific Railgun" than "Captain America."
I've bought comics all my life and had looked forward to buying them for my grand-kids some day. Now something else I have to reconsider. The left is ruining everything we held onto dearly. That the author would have two good guys (one Captain America) looking out across large groups of patriotic Americans and calling them and their actions racist, it goes too far. Does this mean we have to prescreen the Marvel movies now as well?
Well, at least Marvel isn't calling for the murder of their political "enemies," unlike that infamous Punisher issue from a couple of year back. I suppose you could call that progress.
Johns' sister died on 9/11, so he probably is fairly anti-terrorist.
Not being familiar with the DC universe and only reading Green Lantern (I was reading the Superman books, but they started in with this anti-military crap), Blackest Night bored me and I dropped it. With the price increase, I'm dropping as many comics as I can, and Capt. America and anything else by Brubaker is definitely gone.
Marz is another outspoken liberal. He had Rayner say something in a Sinestro Corp book about crazy people reading Ann Coulter. I checked his twitter feed, and he's always got something liberal to say. Another name I happily avoid.
It's a little on shaky ground right now, though. If they go into an abortion storyline, I may just be done. Talking about Invincible.
Joe Kelly. He's a complete dick and a horrible writer. He always throws in his political idiocy, when he's not writing the most outlandish dialogue that no human beings would ever say. Or having Spider-Man break into a honeymoon suite to have sex with the Black Cat, after which he tells the suite's legitimate occupants, "Uh, you might want to change the sheets." Nice. Keep it classy, Joe and Marvel.
There's a funny "conservative" moment in Mark Millar's Kick-Ass. There's a little girl who is being raised by her father to be an assassin–thus her name, Hit Girl. When she's doing one job, he is quizzing her about things he's taught her over her earpiece. He says, "What is a Democrat?" She answers, "A f—-ed up scumbag who will hold a candlelight vigil for a murderer and march for a woman's right to kill a baby." Millar in no way supports conservatives, but I can't argue with that!
Millar's kind of a weird bird. I think he has described himself as a socialist, but he did a book tour through America and I think it changed him. He said something about, "I hung out with conservatives in the heartland and found out there are good people." He is a practicing Catholic and generally supports the War on Terror.
In my mind, if Captain America wants to remain relevant in this world then he should be fighting for the little guy–like the Tea Partiers. Hollywood thinks that no one likes America anymore and therefore an anti-American slant plays well overseas. This is total bull.
The part of America that would play extremely well overseas is the part where the masses rise up against corrupt government. Where the people take it back. People all over the world are frustrated. They feel oppressed even in those so-called bastions of liberalism. The real people of the world hate what's happening in their countries and they have no outlet.
The Tea Partiers, whether the media moguls want to admit it or not, represent the pent-up frustrations of billions out there. Governments all over the globe are hoping that their constituents don't catch on because we would see a global uprising. And if you don't believe me, just go into any "little guys" house around the world and listen to what they are saying.
They are saying "enough!"
Nice, although I object to your use of the word 'redneck'. You sound a little like Janeane Garofolo here and there.
This is my open letter to the Marvel EIC, Joe Quesada:
http://rebelcomix.com/?p=201
I'm very glad to find another conservative who feels the same way I do about Geoff Johns's writing. I stopped reading his books at least 5 years ago, along with many other DC/Marvel comics, because they were becoming increasingly gratuitous and unpleasant, and if he has any sense of humor, even that falls flat. The Flash was decidedly where he really mishandled things. He implied that the Mirror Master was a sexual harrasser and the Turtle was wiling to stoop to child rape, among other serious problems. Not exactly what I'd call appropriate for a book that was built on an optimistic view like Superman. But you know what the straw was that broke the camel's back? It happened in the miniseries called Rogues' Revenge, if you want to read this page on Inertia at the Titans Tower and what he did to the son of the Weather Wizard. After what Johns depicted happening there, I will never read his future output again, and feel embarrassed that I ever thought he was anything great years before.
Incidentally, Johns also wrote at least one story for Marvel that could be considered leftist in the Avengers in 2002-2003 (I think it was called "Red Zone") where the Red Skull infiltrated the US government as a defense secretary anagramed as Dell Rusk (same initials as Donald Rumsfeld?), and it featured the Skull on a splash page cliffhanger saying "I love America", in a way that could've been meant as an insult to American patriots. It was truly awful. I have no intention of wasting time on the relaunched Flash series where Johns brings back Barry Allen, and I won't be surprised if it turns out to be a distorted reflection of the Barry I once knew in my childhood.
You can see the liberal undertones in most of Marvel's work…it's just particularly jarring to see it in a Captain America comic. Example – I remember being 11 or 12 years old and watching/reading X Men comics (back in the early 90's) and seeing the parallels between being a "mutant" and being gay. And it's not like it takes a genius to see it, either. The message is still the same – "they hate us and fear us because we're different," blah blah blah. For decades conservatives are viewed just the narrative in those pictures above, yet nobody is more narrow-minded than a liberal as they hate – and I mean hate – ANY opposition to their views.
That's one of the main reasons why Ive stopped reading X-Men (although, I always took it as a metaphor for racism). It got boring. I mean, every other story was about unbelievably enlightened the X-Men were compared to everyone else. Plus, it was internally inconsistent. The Fantastic Four and Avengers had powers just like the X-Men yet, they had groupies rather than lynchmobs. I never got what the difference was.
Obviously they didn't attend the 9/12 D.C. march or they would have seen some african-american speakers and protesters, chinese, cubans, russians, and other people from around the world who came to America.
Thanks for all the input everyone, I appreciate it.
Dang, Hud…as always, great post.
So many great comments, too, to comment on.
Like many here, I stopped buying Marvel/DC during the late 90s. Cost was a partial factor, but it was mostly the escalated R-rated violence, the graying of the "hero" line where heroes had stopped acting like heroes, and the abandonment of the young market (ie., 8-15 year olds) that caused me to stop. Mainstream comics started to cater to the 30-something who seemed to want little more than soft-core porn featuring the superheroes. That, coupled with the fact that 10 years working in the industry allowed me the opportunity to have a personal knowledge of (if not a relationship with) many of the people producing comics and more importantly running the show, let me very little reason to be optimistic. (and anyone who knows me knows that I'm generally an optimistic kind of guy).
I also agree with one commenter that I don't really want my kids to have an interest in comics today because I don't feel there is anything worth their time. I've fed them reprints of the old Lee/Ditko Spider-Man as well as other older comics, but I'm afraid to get them addicted as I once was because I don't feel there is anything suitable out there for them.
And that makes me sad.
Keep up the great work, Hud!
Who knew that the MSNBC business model was so popular? Way to go Marvel, alienate hard working adults and parents tired of big government and fearful of paying more taxes out of their already stretched budgets. I’m sure Mom and Dad will now make it a point to give little Jimmy a fistfull of cash to buy even more of your little propaganda rags and obnoxious little toys manufactured in China. Could it be the Marvel braintrust has decided to capitalize on their other target audience of pasty ,college aged, Trotsky goatee wearing slackmasters? Or are these folks pompous enough to believe their political thought is communal wisdom to be pounded into the skulls of kids as Cap’s tips on patriotism? I must say that using the Star Spangled shield slinger to deliver this message is nefarious at best. The children’s book writers of Maoist China will be proud. That is, if they are still alive?
I did, and to quote Glenn Beck, "it stinks on ice." Marvel's editorial staff is completely clueless about the tea parties and conservativeism in general.
In this economy, I'm finding it harder and harder to justify laying down my hard earned $2.99 – $3.99. Crap like this doesn't make it any easier.
James, what took you so long? I and IMAO were reporting this back at the end of January.
http://natewinchester.wordpress.com/2010/01/29/so...
http://www.imao.us/index.php/2010/02/captain-libe...
Welcome to the party, man.
I know.
I avoided Amazing Spider-Man after the Spidey/MJ marriage was retconned out of existence in a truly silly and satanic manner. Still, the cover of ASM 595 at a local Target magazine rack got me curious to peak inside.
That's when I saw the blatant Obama worship/Bush slamming scene between Spidey and Wolverine.
I haven't even peaked into a Spidey comic since.
This is why more conservatives must follow the lead of Chuck Dixon and Bill Willingham by creating comics that don't demean American values. Otherwise, you'll see more of this nonsense, which will kill an already struggling American comic book medium.
I was there and can confirm this. Also, I have the photos to prove that the 912 March had more Black people than a comic book convention.
So, comic writers have some nerve hurling the racist card at anyone.
One unintended consequence of Marvel's Civil War was demonstrating how dull the mutant concept had become. If EVERY superhero in the Marvel Universe is viewed with fear and suspicion by normal humans, then the X-Men whining "We're victims" comes off as silly.
@ManicOtter
At first, the X-Men were intended to comment on the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s. Hence, you had the X-Men's leader Professor X who promoted non-violent racial coexistence (think MLK) versus Magneto, who believed in the racial violence (think Malcolm X, NOI period). And the concept really worked at the time.
Unfortunately, as in politics, too many comic book writers bought into the myth that homosexuality was a genetic trait like skin color. Hence, you saw more pro-homosexual themes start sneaking into the X-Men books during the 1990s. Interestingly, the X-Men's tolerance in homosexuality resulted in a gradual marginalizing of straight Black characters. (I've always said the BEST thing to happen to Storm was becoming a co-star in the Black Panther comic.)
Huh? The X-Men sound a lot like modern Hollywood or the Democrat Party.
So, the devolving of the X-Men into ultraliberal propagandists is a reflection of what the Left has been doing in American culture, politics, and education. That's why we must counter the Left's actions instead of ignore or worse condone them.
True. They are elitists in their own minds. Yet, they still hold the purse strings and therefore the means for getting their ugly messages out.
Let me also heap on the praise. Also, echo some of my fellow former and current comic reading conservatives. Mr. Hudnall, thanks for this post. I find myself in a dire situation because my son is so much like me. He is only 3 and already can name the most popular and even not so popular stable of characters within the Marvel Universe. He is my doppleganger so to speak. I never pushed comics on him, it just seems to be fused within his DNA. Shows like Super Hero Squad are pretty harmless but I do dread the day when he get's older and wants to start reading comics with the same reckless abandon as I did when I was a teenager. After 911 I did feel a sense of pride with the comic community. It seems that the artist and writers of both Marvel and DC rose to the occasion and it felt like the Golden Age come to life. Alex Ross quickly comes to mind and also Marvel being as they are based in New York was on que when expounding patriotism unabashed. Remember when Spiderman hit the box office, that movie rocked. From the Marvel logo opening on the big screen to the final scene where Spiderman plants himself firmly on a flag pole with Old Glory flying furiously in the wind.
It's with great sadness that I have long left Marvel behind. As the culture war became so evident to me, comics became a casualty. Just couldn't handle all the lib bias in the stories. Much like Sci-Fi and all things geek, pop culture is just too inundated with liberal bias. Something I fear my son will be exposed too if he does become an avid reader and collector. I was blessed growing up a Christian, with Patriotic friends and neighbors and just being naive enough to probably not know better. That's not the case these days, the liberal bias is so thick I doubt Cyclops could cut through it with his optic blasts.
Anyhow, thanks for the article. Well written and informative. Also appreciate the comments, feels good not to be alone in my thoughts and opinons. Exclesior!!!!
you do realize there are americans that are actually gay, drive priuses etc right? Just because a character (and it WASNT even captain america who made the comment it was the falcon) no longer represents you does not mean he doesn't represent the nation. Liberals, love them or hate them are part of a commentary that is as much about this country as conservatives are.
You do realize though that it wasnt captain america making that comment right? The actual charecter representing american values did not make the statement. The other guy though, the falcon is under no such artistic burden. I'm kind of glad the comment was put in, because agree or disagree with it, it is absolutely the kind of opinion that exists. Comics are suppose to reflect the world we leave in, not shelter you from everything that happens to disagree with your ideology.
you lose absolutely all credibility when you say progressives are by default secularists.
broad strokes ronald. you are completely overlooking the fact that there are liberal and conservative super heros. Look at Tony Stark a.k.a. iron man. Look at the entire lineup of the watchmen.
Personally im a bit disappointed that marvel took those comments out. Because comics won't get by ignoring both sides, they have to acknowledge both sides. Just like you won't get by keeping your kid away from liberal media, but rather by letting him see it then actually talking to him about it.
The menace of the progs…
James Hudnall at Big Hollywood has written about the Capt. America vs Tea Party monstrosity, and come up with a pretty good slang for “progressives”, pronounced as “progs”. Yep, they’re one of the biggest problems with today’s industry…
I never realized there were so many conservative geeks out there (geek being a term I proudly wear). Truly it warms my heart to know that, I could get together with fellow conservatives discuss the benefits of a free market system, AND which Superman movie was better and why Obama is nothing like Spock. Excelsior!
Marvel is pathetic! I won't spend a single cent on anything Marvel produces from here on out.
It's a shame because I liked Brubaker's Captain America run and it was the only booke I bought from Marvel. I will no longer read it, and Joe Quesada has run Marvel Comics to the ground. Pure garbage with what they've done with those characters. Captain America fans need to put pressure on Joe Johnston to leave out that USO storyline in the movie. Enough with the Liberal BS from Hollywood.
I'm basically a DC guy anyway with Batman being my favorite character. Geoff Johns is now my favorite writer currently. I hope that doesn't change.
Hey James Hudnall, did you see "Absolute Justice" last week? For the budget and network it was on, I thought it was pretty good. I loved Dr. Fate and all those easter eggs they threw in. Icicle was a terrible villain though.
Agreed, but I guess since I am a parent I am more worried about my child than myself. Something I like to call "parental hypocrisy" and yes I am guilty of it. My only saving grace is that things where alot more black and white when I was growing up. Maybe it was just my naivety(sp) at the time but comics didn't seem so bad back in the 80's and 90's. I thought they where alot more nuanced.
As for my child, won't need to expose them to liberal media since they are inundated with it on a daily basis. Granted both my kids are only 3 and 5 but I make sure to monitor everything they watch or listen too. We let them watch shows, movies and the like but we spend more time with them doing things like going to the beach, playing at the park, enrolling them in sports, reading books, working on homework, doing arts and crafts, etc.
My son does love the things I do, so I am just a bit worried about what he will be exposed too seeing as I am not a big fan of pop culture anymore. I grew up laying videogames and collecting comics and watching movies and tv, the proto-typical latch key kid. Want more for my children.
Thanks- and there's a funny origin to that name… old family secret…
[...] February 12, 2010 by thomwade Really? Haven’t you heard? [...]
Is it just me, or is that the Unabomber in the lower left of the first panel?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oxymzdhF6y0/SungpK4YTjI...
Is it just me, or is that the Unabomber in the lower left of the first panel?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oxymzdhF6y0/SungpK4YTjI...
previous issues in comics saw such dandies as the first homosexual superheroes, a sidekick getting addicted to hard core drugs, a female sidekick with AIDs, a character called battle pope, tony stark becoming a serious drunk………do you get where I'm going here? Of all the issues in comics these days, a fuss over a tea bagger reference is kind of nuts.
Your Readers are welcome to join our new Centrists Group at Linked In and might like to look at my new blog for and about Centrists, The Rest of U.S.
Extremists have become so loud, they’re deafening. And because they shout in perfect sound bites, the media birddog their every rant, however irresponsible or outrageous.
But we believe the political tide’s about to turn with a vengeance. No matter their party affiliation or lack thereof, Americans are disgusted with those who harass to harass, obstruct to obstruct, tear down to tear down. Compromise, consensus, bridge-building, and respect for differing viewpoints have been the hallmarks of American life as long as there’s been an America. We’re certain they will be again.
Please read: The Rest of U.S. – Who We Are and What We Stand For
http://newcentristera.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/th...
If you like it, please circulate to your family, friends, and colleagues. Or perhaps to your favorite extremist!
And you lose all credibility by claiming to be the credibility police without offering any argument to refute the point you claim I make in my original post.
If you would like to discuss the issue, I am game but let us not have such shallow drive by commentary.
You look at a comic like Xmen which I have read every issue up until it hit issue 390. I started collecting the comic back at issue #183 (which is one of my favs) and you knew that it was a soapbox for people who were different. Now, what type of different was very nuanced in my opinion. For me it could have meant people who were nerds, geeks or minorities. Still, never felt the comic hit me over the head with it's message and the stories where great, the characters where awesome and the continuity of the comic was not so muddled with timelines and convaluted back stories.
Now maybe I am getting old, I am 36 but the story's was more about the characters, franchise and the company. Nowdays it seems to be more about the artist, writer and their world view. I am not going to lie, sometimes it works but even in those cases the worldview of the writer usually is in the background and doesn't smack you in the face.
Never got the whole "coming out" thing with Northstar. Didn't care then, don't care now. Sorry, if you want to be gay than be gay. Just don't expect me to give you a cookie if you come out of the closet. I don't agree with your lifestyle choice like I think adultury and poligamy are wrong but it's your life and your choice and God gives everyone free will to do what they want. Don't really need to be "preached" to about being tolerant. Just me…..
I feel ya dude. One of the reasons I come to BG Hollywood, you get the best of both worlds. BTW, Superman II is my fav.
What I wish Marvel had done was that, in addition to the Tea Party Protesters, Captain America would also take on those kooky left-wing WTO nuts, Greenpeace activists and G-20 Summit protesters. I don't care if it's liberal or conservative, these kind of protests produce nothing beneficial for either side. Reading a comic book is better use of your time that standing outside with a picket sign screaming "Money is evil" or "They took our 'jerbs'!". If you excuse me, I've got some Heavy Metal comics to catch up on.
not an avid comic reader, but as a multiracial American, The underbelly of the Tea Party movement scares the tan off of me…..litmus test to be able to vote? Condeming people because they have an accent. The same thing happened in the 50's and 60's, which is why many people of color could not vote, Maybe some do not see the implications because it did not happen to them. Depicting O'bama as a head hunter, a monkey? How can anyone in their right mind not see those pictures and not be shaken, We are going down a very slippery slope here. I recall an African American comedian trying to attend one of those rallies….he was politely asked to leave. Yeah I saw 5 black people there, but the a lot were hostile, It is a inkling, a small trickle that is becoming a downpour, and to ignore it is, well…I don't have words. And if by chance some call this "The race card"…well go for it. I think people are scared that the majority will soon be the minority…I think it scares them to death…which is why they want their country back, so to speak.
My grandfather saw this before……….in Germany….He states "Slowly dehumanize the one you hate, make him not human, make him a threat……….depict him as evil, non-human…picture him as an animal, not born of his kind……..Invalidate him………..isolate him…………(for his own good)…………develop a shower that will "clean him to death" …seperate him from his family, friends…..imprison him…destroy him…all for the good of the people…..It happened before…………
There already is a litmus test to being able to vote, it is called CITIZENSHIP. In order to become a naturalized citizen (and therefore vote), you need to:
1) enter the country legally
2) obey the laws
That is all I and the vast majority of the Tea Party movement want.
The people being condemned these days because of their accents are white people from southern states.
Restrictive voting laws (aka Jim Crow) were an exclusively Southern phenomenon. These laws were put in place by Democrat legislatures.
Obama as a headhunter? I didn't see it. I did see a black man selling Gadsen flags get beat up by SEIU thugs at a townhall meeting. I also did see hateful signs at another town hall turn out to have been planted by the staff of the Democrat politician that hosted the event.
What comedian? What's his name? What was his motivation for being there (if he even exists)?
We're not afraid. It is the LEFT that is afraid. Afraid of being exposed for being the frauds they are.
Is your second comment Projection?
When a person has uncomfortable thoughts or feelings, they may project these onto other people, assigning the thoughts or feelings that they need to repress to a convenient alternative target.
http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/c...
The day he will be over cannot come soon enough.
Okay let me try this but with less subtext so you can follow it.
It is more than a tad hypocritical to get upset at people unfairly categorizing your interest group and in the same breath call progressives secularists in nature, as if there is no variety in that interest group at all.
actually, DC has green arrow, who is waaaaaaaaaaaay more of a socialist than obama and the question who is more or less a neocon. If anything I like DC because they have all the political commentaries for the reader to choose from, right out there in the open.
Ditto. I just finished reading "Annihilation" which was a great story about the "cosmic" heroes who weren't fighting each other in Civil War & were instead fighting to save the universe from Annihilus' invasion. I'd highly recommend it.
If Obama is President in the Marvel Universe, why doesn't he put a stop to Osborn's "Dark Reign?" His Avengers are working for the Feds, aren't they?
Van Sciver is conservative? I didn't know that. I love his work in GL (the only superhero comic I buy anymore). I buy everything Star Wars & the new G.I.Joe series (written by outspoken conservative Chuck Dixon).
Thank you! I thought I was the only person who found it inconsistant, to say the least, that other superheroes who got their powers from radioactivity, or technology, or what have you , were accepted by the public, but those born with superpowers were rejected & hated.
Great idea.
OK, Andrew, let's get this one done.
[...] James Hundall at Big Hollywood: The problem is, Marvel, like DC to a large extent, is run by and largely created by Progs these days. People who mostly adhere to the “progressive” worldview. There isn’t much diversity of political thought over at these companies. Progs tend to exclude those who don’t follow the party line. They feel more comfortable in a groupthink environment. And this leads to a kind of “bubble mentality” that comes with living in an echo chamber. In the case of Marvel it sometimes becomes unintentionally rank — with a lot of Obama worship — from Spider-Man teaming up with the Prez to Captain America saluting and praising him in the “Who Will Wield the Shield.” There sure wasn’t too much positive being said about Bush during his administration in comics, when they mentioned him at all. But Obama has been praised and venerated from the get go. Like his Nobel prize for just showing up, the comic world’s been awfully uncritical of a president who’s sinking faster in the polls than any president since Eisenhower. [...]
[...] news of the upcoming issue broke earlier this week, conservative pundits had a little fun, and a few commenters snarked. But [...]
I read it in trade so I'm always a solid story arc behind. Kirkman is going pretty wild in "The Walking Dead" though, that's for sure.
First, you never addressed the issue of my interest group. You simply did a drive-by commentary without any substance. I was not offended by the substance of what you said because there was little substance to your remark.
Second, secularism is not the same as atheism. Secularism simply means that there are some areas of life that are removed from God or the spiritual. For example, many claim that we have a secular government in that our government is removed from God. Progressives are usually secularists because certain areas of their life do not fall under the lordship of God.
To help with our discussion, how are progressives not secularists?
Sorry about that. I don't want to say anything to spoil it.
I never said its the same as atheism, and you say 'usually' now. thats a new word you've entered into the dialogue. Progressives are not secularists because one is not a precondition of the other.
http://progressiveandreligious.org/
thats one such example and it took oh………all of 5 seconds on a google search to find.
Actually, if you remove yourself from this isolated incident you'd see that they give attention to many political platforms. Tony Stark a.k.a. iron man is a neocon. Green Arrow is a socialist. Hal jordan, republican. Vic Sage, a libretarian.
Saying its just "all full of progs" is waaaay to simplistic and just plain false.
You know heres the thing, Tony Stark is a neo con. Green arrow is a socialist. Vic Sage is a libretarian. Hal Jordan is a republican. Just because one charecter seems to be liberal does not mean all comics are suddenly liberal and out of touch with everyone else. Thats the actions of people who like to use broad strokes just to get their readers in to a frenzy.
If Obama is President in the Marvel Universe, why doesn't he put a stop to Osborn's "Dark Reign?" His Avengers are working for the Feds, aren't they?
Disregard the word "usually" as I stand behind my original comment.
secular: worldly rather than spiritual
secularize: to transfer from ecclesiastical to civil use or ownership
Progressives are secularists – even if they claim to be religious – because their "religion" is worldly rather than spiritual and as such their religion is defined by their political and humanist ideology rather than the reverse. The website you provided is excellent proof of my point. Two of the individuals Dr. Jones touts – Jim Wallis and Brian McLaren – bend their religion to suit their own ideologies. Wallis is a known liberal whose interpretation of Scripture is colored by his leftism. McLaren has went so far as to deny the authority of Scirpture at all. Their faith is a secularized faith with a lordship of humanist ideology rather than a Christ / Scripture one.
What is your source for the following claim?
"Spider-Man co-creator Steve Ditko, an Objectivist, famously asked a bunch of comic pros if they could define what a hero was, and they couldn’t. "
I dont see it as colored views of scripture or bending religion as much as I see it as having an interpretation that doesn't neccessarily agree with conservatives. But well played and well argued (as well as alot more civil than I'm used to seeing at these sites in general). We'll have to agree to fundementally different interpretations.
[...] do think James Hundall at "Big Hollywood" has a very good post on the subject, with a lot of insight about the current writer of "Captain America," Ed Brubaker which makes a lot [...]
The question is not whether someone's interpretation of Scripture agrees with my own but whether it agrees with the actual Scripture. The first rule of Biblical interpretation is that Scripture interprets Scripture. One cannot simply pick and choose verses to season their own opinions. Context and substance matter.
Thank you for the discussion. I always enjoy a good back and forth.
Yes, there are gay Americans Aaron & People that drive priuses. Did I need permission from PC central in Pelosigrad to mention them in a posting? Or is Cap a little too butch for Doc Strange? Or do you need some padding for that oversensitive mangina? Yes indeed THE MOMENT that this comic book became a political commmercial, Captain America stopped representing America. Fact is kids shouldn't have to worry about liberal- Conservative when reading a comic book. I never had to as a kid. But if F#$%STAIN publishing (TM) wants to go into the propaganda business by all means buy all the weak material you like, just don't expect me to not openly mock the stupidity of the idiot hack that produces it.
Vic Sage's libertarianism was stripped from him and largely ignored once he "returned" to mainstream comics and was introduced to DC Comics. His Objectivist roots were forgotten and he became a new age "zen" master.
The only reason he is half recongized today as a libertarian is not because of Steve Ditko, but because of DC Animated Universe that is replayed on Cartoon Network from time to time.
Tony Stark is usually made to feel guilty about anything he does over time, Green Arrow is always the "real good guy" and Hal Jordan when given a platform for "his beliefs" is usually made to seem "out of touch" with people. Hell they even turned him into a major baddie for awhile lol.
Really the only Comic I can think of that is in the mainstream today that even comes close to a "conservative" or atleast a "non Progressive" view point is the series Fables by Bill Willingham.
I agree with you, but I think the comment should have been left in anyways. Comics shouldnt be taking left leaning commentary out, they should be adding right leaning commentary in to balance it. Otherwise you open both sides to a whine a thon that lets no one say anything relevant.
examples of right leaning charecters – tony stark, and the question (vic sage not the current one).
[...] as racist super-villains. (One especially sharp criticism was offered by comic-book writer James Hudnall, [...]
I think Micah Ian Wright is the guy you're actually looking for.
Hudnall's stunning superficial comments about the 50's amazes me. Unless history has been rewritten the fact is: If you were a communist – in the government or Hollywood (or even an alleged one) or a minority – especially black in the south – your life wasn't hunky-dory. So 50's=evil – I guess if you were white during that time it wasn't. And yeah, unless you aren't one, a black man from Harlem WOULD stand out in Bose, Idaho. Be REAL.
Stop reading into motives of how and why was comic book was written. You don't have telepathy, you don't really know a person just because of where they live and because you knew them when they had hair.
Do tea baggers protest against taxes and large government? They do. They DIDN'T protest when BUSH started raising the deficit and giving tax payer dollars (with NO strings attached) to the banks and cutting taxes that led us into this mess. Are all protesting tea baggers racists? Not all, but they sure don't disassociate themselves or disavow with equal anger from known tea baggers that say racist statements.
And by the way, Medicare IS a government run program so unless you wave a sign wanted to privatize it because of all the waste and abuse – it's fair game to question your sanity if NOT your intelligence.
End of the day: It's a comic, people. It's fiction with just a tinge of truth – and that's is what should matter. The protesters in the comic weren't misrepresented – they were accurately presented. And if they can't take it – too bad – freedom of speech baby!
Odds favor that you're all bitchin' about a comic book you don't read or buy anyway.
And by the way, Medicare IS a government run program so unless you wave a sign wanting to privatize it because of all the waste and abuse – it's fair game to question your sanity if NOT your intelligence.
End of the day: It's a comic, people. It's fiction with just a tinge of truth – and that's is what should matter. The protesters in the comic weren't misrepresented – they were accurately presented. And if they can't take it – too bad – freedom of speech baby!
Odds favor that you're all complain' about a comic book you don't read or buy anyway.
Wow you conservatives are idiots. If any of you had bothered to actually read the comic instead of mindlessly attacking it, you'd know that Captain America wasn't after any Tea Party members. He was after a supervillain who was hiding among them.
It seems like conservatives are just looking to be offended so they can play the victim card. It's crossed the line from sad into silliness now.
"But this comic has it that they’re all White (it’s set in Idaho, hello?)."
I'm confused by this.
Isn't the black population of Idaho less than 1%? It strikes me as rather unsurprising that a gathering in Idaho would be pretty much entirely white by that standard. Or was the incredulous comment about it being set in Idaho at all?
Is it completely beyond comprehension that, even if you aren't racist, one SPECIFIC liberal black man from Harlem with little exposure to middle America MIGHT worry you could be?
It seems odd to me that folks are looking only to the writer and not at all to the characters; I know the writer is the one putting words in the character's mouth, but unless the characters are meant to be infallible I'm not sure I see the jump. The story was sold to me, in part, as a fish-out-of-water tale for both the main characters and the 1950s Cap who's trying to find a new role (with the two sides having different issues, obviously) so I'm willing to see where it heads.
I just want to point out one thing, Brubaker lives in Seattle, not San Fran. I think that needs to be corrected.
Very well said!
"Well, first off he’s using the false premise so many Democrats have about the tea parties. That it’s specifically anti-Obama. That it’s all Republicans. All White people"
Uhm…. have you ever seen a black teabagger? Honestly? It is all white people.
No kidding. I didn't have much trouble with the liberal slant- that's been present in Marvel comics since before I was born, for better as I might mention as well as for worse. But as a longtime Idahoan and former Boise resident, I was very offended by the way Boise and its people were portrayed.
Of course, the original (Golden Age) Green Lantern's ring *was* magical. When they "sci-fied" GL in the Silver Age, they kept his magic-like powers but with a sci-fi explanation. As a result, GL has been something of a forced fit in the sci-fi genre. I've always viewed him more as space fantasy, like Star Wars.
I don't think superhero comics have to be simplistic fistfights, but I was turned off by comics in the late 90s as they just became too dark and nihilistic, the very antithesis of what had made them popular to begin with. Apparently, most mainstream comics writers think dark and bleak are the same as "deep".
You know Marvel has gone as far as making Donald Rumsfeld the Red Skull and basically devoted an entire crossover to anti-Patriot Act posturing. I do think labeling the party in the comic was a mistake and due to a lack of communication and assumptions, and that's unfortunate, but conservative comic book fans are just getting pissed enough at Marvel now?! This is what got national media coverage? Like three panels worth of clumsy dialogue in what has otherwise been a good comic for years, when "Republicans can go to hell" has been an undercurrent in much of the main-universe line for the better part of a decade? Over a book that 87,000 people read? You're worried about a generation of youngsters being manipulated into anti-Americanism when the exposure is about the population of a metropolitan city block? O'Reilley's children books do that without breaking a sweat.
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