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	<title>Comments on: Watch Out For &#8216;Watchmen&#8217;</title>
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		<title>By: brand bags online </title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jgoldberg/2009/01/07/watch-out-for-watchmen/comment-page-3/#comment-718346</link>
		<dc:creator>brand bags online </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=10037#comment-718346</guid>
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		<title>By: wrlord</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jgoldberg/2009/01/07/watch-out-for-watchmen/comment-page-3/#comment-554066</link>
		<dc:creator>wrlord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=10037#comment-554066</guid>
		<description>The other problem, of course, is the ending. I won&#039;t spoil anything here, but the basic message that the populace are sheep who need to be lied to for the greater good is a quintesentially liberal conceit. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other problem, of course, is the ending. I won&#039;t spoil anything here, but the basic message that the populace are sheep who need to be lied to for the greater good is a quintesentially liberal conceit.</p>
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		<title>By: Theodore Lopez</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jgoldberg/2009/01/07/watch-out-for-watchmen/comment-page-1/#comment-290154</link>
		<dc:creator>Theodore Lopez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 03:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=10037#comment-290154</guid>
		<description>Uh huh...and I o9nce had a pprofessor who taught american foreign polkicy. Once every three classes or so he would make referrence to a secret cabal being orchestrated by the catholic church to resurrect the Holy Roman Empire in the United States and that if we wanted to learn more about this secret conspiracy he had a mysterious secret book which he would quietly lend us. He also claimed he had the power to transform himself into a bird and fly from nation to nation.  Now why do you suppose you remind me of him? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh huh&#8230;and I o9nce had a pprofessor who taught american foreign polkicy. Once every three classes or so he would make referrence to a secret cabal being orchestrated by the catholic church to resurrect the Holy Roman Empire in the United States and that if we wanted to learn more about this secret conspiracy he had a mysterious secret book which he would quietly lend us. He also claimed he had the power to transform himself into a bird and fly from nation to nation.  Now why do you suppose you remind me of him?</p>
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		<title>By: DesScorp</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jgoldberg/2009/01/07/watch-out-for-watchmen/comment-page-1/#comment-273774</link>
		<dc:creator>DesScorp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 16:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=10037#comment-273774</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know about that. In the very first episode, Giles lays things out for Buffy with &quot;Despite what Biblical myth says...&quot;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t know about that. In the very first episode, Giles lays things out for Buffy with &quot;Despite what Biblical myth says&#8230;&quot;.</p>
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		<title>By: DesScorp</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jgoldberg/2009/01/07/watch-out-for-watchmen/comment-page-3/#comment-273754</link>
		<dc:creator>DesScorp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 16:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=10037#comment-273754</guid>
		<description>Yeah, because all of those peoples in Eastern Europe that were under the Soviet&#039;s heels were just willfully playing along. Go tell a Pole or a Czech that the Cold War was &quot;largely contrived&quot;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, because all of those peoples in Eastern Europe that were under the Soviet&#039;s heels were just willfully playing along. Go tell a Pole or a Czech that the Cold War was &quot;largely contrived&quot;.</p>
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		<title>By: Lorenzo</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jgoldberg/2009/01/07/watch-out-for-watchmen/comment-page-3/#comment-34913</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorenzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=10037#comment-34913</guid>
		<description>The thing to remember about Joss Whedon (apart from worshipping at the altar of his talent) is that he is anti-utopian.  I mean seriously anti-utopian.  If you have not already worked it out from Serenity, list to his interview on the DVD.

He is also an emotionally honest writer.   The actions have consequences, that the dark in the human soul is real, are the two guiding principles of his art.  (Hence his anti-utopianism)

An extremely talented, emotionally honest, actions-have-consequences, people-have-a-dark-side, anti-utopian liberal clearly steeped in Western culture is going to produce stuff that seems a bit, well, conservative and/or libertarian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing to remember about Joss Whedon (apart from worshipping at the altar of his talent) is that he is anti-utopian.  I mean seriously anti-utopian.  If you have not already worked it out from Serenity, list to his interview on the DVD.</p>
<p>He is also an emotionally honest writer.   The actions have consequences, that the dark in the human soul is real, are the two guiding principles of his art.  (Hence his anti-utopianism)</p>
<p>An extremely talented, emotionally honest, actions-have-consequences, people-have-a-dark-side, anti-utopian liberal clearly steeped in Western culture is going to produce stuff that seems a bit, well, conservative and/or libertarian.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jgoldberg/2009/01/07/watch-out-for-watchmen/comment-page-3/#comment-28749</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=10037#comment-28749</guid>
		<description>The graphic of the smiley face button needs to be flipped.  The splotch of blood should be in the position of the minute hand of a clock when it&#039;s &quot;five minutes till midnight&quot;, symbolizing the countdown to inevitable mutual nuclear obliteration.  The artwork of the graphic novel is chock full of the same &quot;minute hand position&quot; in lots of pictures and situations.

Mr. Willingham:  You, sir, are a breath of fresh air.  FABLES is the most innovative thing I have read in forever.  My wife bought me the entire set of graphic novels for Christmas, and I am loving them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The graphic of the smiley face button needs to be flipped.  The splotch of blood should be in the position of the minute hand of a clock when it&#8217;s &#8220;five minutes till midnight&#8221;, symbolizing the countdown to inevitable mutual nuclear obliteration.  The artwork of the graphic novel is chock full of the same &#8220;minute hand position&#8221; in lots of pictures and situations.</p>
<p>Mr. Willingham:  You, sir, are a breath of fresh air.  FABLES is the most innovative thing I have read in forever.  My wife bought me the entire set of graphic novels for Christmas, and I am loving them.</p>
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		<title>By: Big Hollywood &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Big Thanks: A Really Big Launch, A Really Big Tent, A Really Big Future</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jgoldberg/2009/01/07/watch-out-for-watchmen/comment-page-3/#comment-26725</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Hollywood &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Big Thanks: A Really Big Launch, A Really Big Tent, A Really Big Future</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 01:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=10037#comment-26725</guid>
		<description>[...] owe National Review&#8217;s Jonah Goldberg and Kathryn Jean Lopez steaks and drinks for bringing their thoughts and following to the site on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] owe National Review&#8217;s Jonah Goldberg and Kathryn Jean Lopez steaks and drinks for bringing their thoughts and following to the site on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cole Moore Odell</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jgoldberg/2009/01/07/watch-out-for-watchmen/comment-page-3/#comment-26001</link>
		<dc:creator>Cole Moore Odell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=10037#comment-26001</guid>
		<description>Kurt, for Jonah et al, proving that Moore got his comic book politics &quot;wrong&quot; reassures them that they, in their clear-eyed wisdom, got the real-world politics right. That&#039;s the point of the whole exercise.

In the massive conservative wreckage of the last eight years, this self-validation through the negative example of decades-old supposed stupid liberal art at least a security blanket the right can cling to, ratty and sad though it may be. But notice that when Jonah or Bill Willingham decry some aspect of liberalism as &quot;nonsense&quot; it&#039;s invariably a phantom they&#039;ve conjured in order to dispel--from Goldberg&#039;s mischaracterization of 80s anti-Reaganism to Willingham&#039;s confusion between Moore&#039;s construction of the Ozymandias character and Moore&#039;s actual politics. The size of the nuts it takes for conservatives to sneer &quot;nonsense&quot; at liberalism right now--you guys must have to walk around with a wheelbarrow in front of you.

And finally, I could read Scott Lobdell criticize Alan Moore *all day*. It&#039;s like Mel Sharples complaining about Julia Child. Whereas Jonah criticizing Alan Moore is like one of the Mole Man&#039;s subterranean Moloids badmouthing Reed Richards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kurt, for Jonah et al, proving that Moore got his comic book politics &#8220;wrong&#8221; reassures them that they, in their clear-eyed wisdom, got the real-world politics right. That&#8217;s the point of the whole exercise.</p>
<p>In the massive conservative wreckage of the last eight years, this self-validation through the negative example of decades-old supposed stupid liberal art at least a security blanket the right can cling to, ratty and sad though it may be. But notice that when Jonah or Bill Willingham decry some aspect of liberalism as &#8220;nonsense&#8221; it&#8217;s invariably a phantom they&#8217;ve conjured in order to dispel&#8211;from Goldberg&#8217;s mischaracterization of 80s anti-Reaganism to Willingham&#8217;s confusion between Moore&#8217;s construction of the Ozymandias character and Moore&#8217;s actual politics. The size of the nuts it takes for conservatives to sneer &#8220;nonsense&#8221; at liberalism right now&#8211;you guys must have to walk around with a wheelbarrow in front of you.</p>
<p>And finally, I could read Scott Lobdell criticize Alan Moore *all day*. It&#8217;s like Mel Sharples complaining about Julia Child. Whereas Jonah criticizing Alan Moore is like one of the Mole Man&#8217;s subterranean Moloids badmouthing Reed Richards.</p>
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		<title>By: Herb</title>
		<link>http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jgoldberg/2009/01/07/watch-out-for-watchmen/comment-page-3/#comment-23265</link>
		<dc:creator>Herb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/?p=10037#comment-23265</guid>
		<description>A slightly different take:  It seemed to me that Moore was really having a bit of a joke underneath it all.  What makes comics work are the villains, not the heroes.  The early Superman (Golden Age) stories were awful.  Superman beats up a wife beater, catches a spy, etc.  It wasn&#039;t until he faced what came to be called super villains, as opposed to ordinary &quot;real&quot; crooks that the stories became interesting.  And they also tended to follow a pattern.  You&#039;d have a hero with superpowers  facing a villain who was super smart.  Superman vs. Lex Luthor.  Captain America vs. The Red Skull,  Hulk vs. The Leader, etc.  The bad guys would also have or work for a large organization where the hero would be mostly alone.  There would be some powerful villains along the way but the main nemesis was usually someone who was  a mad genius and (supposedly) smarter then the hero.  Though it usually worked out that the the hero had to out think the bad guy in the end and not just use his powers. Ditto if he ran into someone who was stronger then he was.  He had to out think them to win.

A common burglar may have shot Spiderman&#039;s Uncle Ben but he was quickly facing The Vulture and the Green Goblin. I don&#039;t think people would still be reading comics if it was Batman vs. Tony Soprano.  Super Heroes need Super Villains and the in the world of the Watchman there weren&#039;t any.  

 The nemesis&#039;s were closer to what could be found in the Pulp Magazines of the 30&#039;s and 40&#039;s.   Rorschach was based on The Question but he was also very much like Popular Publications The Spider.  Except for the fact that they dressed in costumes all of the heros were more like pulp heros then comic heroes.  The only person in he entire comic who had super powers was Dr. Manhattan.   Without super villains the heroes wind up working for the government or retiring.  The Owl may have been like Batman but he was also a bit like Doc Savage or Richard Benson.  

It seemed to me that ultimately  Ozymandias was Lex Luthor (or Dr. Doom if you prefer).  He gave Oz a better or more realistic reasoning  then LL but the ego and logic underpinning  were the same.  

As for comics now killing off Bruce Wayne and Steve Rogers.  I&#039;m sure they&#039;ll be back if for no other reason then copyrights.  DC brought back all of the other earths so I suspect they&#039;ll be back too.  Marvel brought back Bucky and DC Jason Todd.  DC even brought back Thomas Wayne and made him a villain so I doubt that Bruce and Steve are gone forever.  

 Not that I&#039;m a cynic or anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A slightly different take:  It seemed to me that Moore was really having a bit of a joke underneath it all.  What makes comics work are the villains, not the heroes.  The early Superman (Golden Age) stories were awful.  Superman beats up a wife beater, catches a spy, etc.  It wasn&#8217;t until he faced what came to be called super villains, as opposed to ordinary &#8220;real&#8221; crooks that the stories became interesting.  And they also tended to follow a pattern.  You&#8217;d have a hero with superpowers  facing a villain who was super smart.  Superman vs. Lex Luthor.  Captain America vs. The Red Skull,  Hulk vs. The Leader, etc.  The bad guys would also have or work for a large organization where the hero would be mostly alone.  There would be some powerful villains along the way but the main nemesis was usually someone who was  a mad genius and (supposedly) smarter then the hero.  Though it usually worked out that the the hero had to out think the bad guy in the end and not just use his powers. Ditto if he ran into someone who was stronger then he was.  He had to out think them to win.</p>
<p>A common burglar may have shot Spiderman&#8217;s Uncle Ben but he was quickly facing The Vulture and the Green Goblin. I don&#8217;t think people would still be reading comics if it was Batman vs. Tony Soprano.  Super Heroes need Super Villains and the in the world of the Watchman there weren&#8217;t any.  </p>
<p> The nemesis&#8217;s were closer to what could be found in the Pulp Magazines of the 30&#8217;s and 40&#8217;s.   Rorschach was based on The Question but he was also very much like Popular Publications The Spider.  Except for the fact that they dressed in costumes all of the heros were more like pulp heros then comic heroes.  The only person in he entire comic who had super powers was Dr. Manhattan.   Without super villains the heroes wind up working for the government or retiring.  The Owl may have been like Batman but he was also a bit like Doc Savage or Richard Benson.  </p>
<p>It seemed to me that ultimately  Ozymandias was Lex Luthor (or Dr. Doom if you prefer).  He gave Oz a better or more realistic reasoning  then LL but the ego and logic underpinning  were the same.  </p>
<p>As for comics now killing off Bruce Wayne and Steve Rogers.  I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;ll be back if for no other reason then copyrights.  DC brought back all of the other earths so I suspect they&#8217;ll be back too.  Marvel brought back Bucky and DC Jason Todd.  DC even brought back Thomas Wayne and made him a villain so I doubt that Bruce and Steve are gone forever.  </p>
<p> Not that I&#8217;m a cynic or anything.</p>
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