Kanye West Vs. Joe Wilson
by Joe EscalanteSome listeners to my Barely Legal Radio Program are asking me if Taylor Swift has a defamation case against Kanye West for his recent actions against her at the VMA awards, and if Barack Obama has a defamation case against Joe Wilson. Although it would be unimaginable to see her pursue this, Swift actually has a couple decent causes of action against West.
In a suit for defamation you need damages. Provable damages in this case would center on the value of the airtime Swift was deprived of to speak about her recordings. Expert witnesses would testify as to the “bump” typically witnessed after an acceptance speech in such a valuable forum. Arguably, West deprived Swift of this sales bump.
West also defamed Swift when he announced to the world, in the most damaging forum possible, that Beyonce made “one of the best videos of all time,” so obviously Swift was on stage accepting an award that she didn’t deserve– more damages.
And what of Joe Wilson’s arguably barbaric shouting, also in the most damaging forum possible, that the President was lying as he spoke to Congress and the American people? If true, this was pure defamation and created quantifiable damages to a politician whose ability to govern and raise funds for re-election depend on his credibility.
Public figure exceptions (requiring “actual malice”) and governmental immunities aside, the interesting difference between these two cases is the ability to mount a viable defense. Truth is the best defense in any defamation case. If the defaming speech is true, it is protected by the 1st Amendment to the Constitution guaranteeing free speech.
Wilson, and many pundits, have probably already gone far enough to establish that a reasonable person could infer that the President was not telling the truth when he asserted that illegal aliens would not be covered under the government’s proposed health care plan. The fact that Wilson and his supporters tried to add language to the bills specifically prohibiting coverage for illegal aliens and it was removed by their opponents, and the fact that non-citizens have to be covered in some ways by the plan, at least in emergency rooms, is enough to establish a reasonable basis for Wilson’s belief that the President was indeed lying. So the apparent truth to Wilson’s beliefs is a good faith defense to being punished for stating them in public.
On the other hand, Kanye’s attempt to prove truth as a defense to his defamation troubles would be impossible. He would have to spend all his energy trying to argue for minimal damages.
What will actually happen? Wilson’s outburst has already put the spotlight on this issue for his supporters so it was an effective, albeit rude. Kanye will return to next year’s VMAs to a mindless standing ovation as a prodigal son, and security will be stepped up a bit on the side of the stage.
But let us consider the forum of a Presidential address to Congress. Every time the President says anything of significance, true or not, his supporters are allowed to go nuts and violate decorum. For Wilson and his colleagues to just sit there and not point out an opposing sentiment representing at least ½ the country, every time, may be too much to ask.
Is it too much to ask a hip-hop “musician” formed by the juvenile arrogance of a genre with almost zero positive contributions to popular culture to resist the easy prey of a humble and traditionally wholesome artist like Taylor Swift. Actually it is too much to ask, way too much.







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Some people will try to nitpick and argue with the comments you made. I won't and can't.
I will add that the sence of decorum and moment seems to have been lost in both instances. The camerafest that is the after event time would have been sufficient for both men to have made their points.
Some people will try to nitpick and argue with the comments you made. I won't and can't.
I will add that the sense of decorum and moment seems to have been lost in both instances. The camerafest that is the after event time would have been sufficient for both men to have made their points.
Nothing wrong with Kanye West that good ass kicking wouldn't fix….
My respect for Big Hollywood just took a big leap with this from Joe Escalante. You are Awesome. I followed you and the Vandals when you were in Iraq entertaining the troops. This is an informative view into defamation suits. Good job.
decorum in congress was lost over a decade ago… and most of the violaters have been democrats.
Related parody — Illegal Immigrant Advocate Yells “You Don’t Lie Convincingly Enough!” During Obama’s Health Care Address: http://optoons.blogspot.com/2009/09/illegal-immig...
I'm a little sick of the daily media narrative *chosen* for us. All day the news will be about the loss of civility and mentioning West, Serena Williams and……Joe Wilson, because they need to include someone White. Obama had just finished calling his opponents liars regarding the death panels in the Health Care INSURANCE Reform bill when in fact they are not only in the bill…..they ARE the bill. He and others who want to muddy the water also try to bamboozle people into thinking the death panels are referencing the end of life counseling – they aren't. The death panels are where it is decided how much they will spend keeping you alive. There will be a limit – there is no escaping this. And after the LIE told by Obama on that, he went on to say another about illegals. I think what Joe did was nothing short of heroism….until he groveled and apologized. Shame.
But I'm tired of the media trying to equate that with the degenerate behavior of West and Williams.
Kanye West is a gay fish.
Amen.
Ah, but it is even simpler. If they weren't covered, why isn't La Raza protesting?
Hilarious!
I loved how Jay Leno really let him have it by bringing up is mom. Way to shame him, Jay, way to shame….
*For those that don't know, his mom died a couple years back from complications of plastic surgery… she was buried in Oklahoma City at the same time I was so it was big news there and that's how I remember it.
Seconded.
You were buried in Oklahoma City?
speaking from beyond the grave are we?
"…she was buried in Oklahoma City at the same time I was…"
just joking around, glad to hear that Leno let him have it.
All everyone is doing is giving the egomaniacal attentionwhore all the attention he wanted. And yes, Kanye West IS a gay fish.
Kanye West is a neutered weasel.
He's just another wannabe thug. OOOOH big tough guy yanking a microphone away from a 90lb girl….
Has anybody touched upon the clear racism he displayed? Insulting a white girl in favor of a black woman?
Well, Preston Brooks conking Charles Sumner over the head with his cane in 1856 twern't no tea party. I think decorum and Congress are incongruous.
*lol* No… I meant I was living in OKC… I assure everyone I am still alive and kickin'… *lol* I forgot to change my semantics… I orginally said that she LIVED there… but then decided to check that out because I couldn't remember exactly and just changed the "lived" to "was buried" but forgot to change the rest of….
I really need to learn to proof read before I click Submit…
Only those that comment on Rolling Stones and others stories…
At least Wilson had the decency to speak the truth while Kanye was just expressing an opinion. Bush was booed at his State of the Union address a few years back, but that doesn't stop the MSM from making this a "new" "never to happen before" event. I'm proud for Joe for speaking his mind in the heat of the moment when others have failed to question the policies of our new leader. As unpopular as the national health care bill is, the Democrats are willing to trade seats for the sake of passing this garbage.
Does anyone actually think the whole Kanye West/VMA/Leno Show thing wasn't just a well planned publicity stunt? I guess it is possible that it was the perfect storm of publicity for all involved generated by a lapse in judgement by a "bad boy" rapper. But all the pieces just seem to fit together a little too nicely, all the way down to Leno's mention of West's mom and the almost crocodile tears. It's a pr win all around. Somebody should get an award for pulling it off but they never give awards to the man behind the curtain.
LOL…for those that don't "get it" ———zoom—right over their heads!
Kanye West represents ALL THAT IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY
and…
Joe Wilson represents ALL THAT CAN BE FIXED BY BEING TRUTHFUL
ODB after chugging down a bottle of Henessey…what a punk.
Obama was lying, in the lawerly "lying by omission" sense. He was lying about the treatment for illegal aliens, in the same sense Clinton lied when he was asked if he ever smoked pot. His response was he had never broken any U.S. drug laws. By stating a "fact" that didn't address an the issue at hand, he pretended to be answering the question turthfully by omitting the fact that he had indeed smoked pot outside the U.S. borders, hence "lying by omission." In the same sense, Obama lied when he said there were no provisions for health care for illegals, though he omitted the fact that there would be no mechanism for documenting the status of illegals. However Obama was telling the truth when he referred to Kanye "B.I.G. EGO, Lil' Talent" West as a "jackass."
It's time for less decorum…at least when the lies are blatant…
I just read on Drudge that Obama ("off the record," of course) called Kanye a jackass. Finally! Something we can really get behind the President on!
I would actually like to have a less decorous Congress…I really think conservatives could take liberals 2 for 1…
I would like to see Kanye banned from the awards…for life…
If he ever wins one, he could have Taylor do the acceptance…while he watches in a drunken stupor from home…
I for one would would settle for a spell checker on this site.
Bingo!
Yeah that would be great too… When I am at work I don't get the nifty little read squiggles that firefox gives me at home…. so one can always tell if I am at home or work depending on my misspellings (which are usually those tricky vowels).
"Is it too much to ask a hip-hop “musician” formed by the juvenile arrogance of a genre with almost zero positive contributions to popular culture to resist the easy prey of a humble and traditionally wholesome artist like Taylor Swift. Actually it is too much to ask, way too much."
Not a bad article but there is no reason to shit on hip-hop. It is a great form of music.
one who knows her history!
I'm a little sick of the daily media narrative *chosen* for us. All day the news will be about the loss of civility and mentioning West, Serena Williams and……Joe Wilson, because they need to include someone White. Obama had just finished calling his opponents liars regarding the death panels in the Health Care INSURANCE Reform bill when in fact they are not only in the bill…..they ARE the bill. He and others who want to muddy the water also try to bamboozle people into thinking the death panels are referencing the end of life counseling – they aren't. The death panels are where it is decided how much they will spend keeping you alive. There will be a limit – there is no escaping this. And after the LIE told by Obama on that, he went on to say another about illegals. I think what Joe did was nothing short of heroism….until he groveled and apologized. Shame.
EXACTLY! The libs in congress wasted no energy on decorum when railing against conservative individuals and issues. Republicans need to stop playing by Marquis de Queensbury rules when the oppostion has been playing by back alley rules for over half a century and then some.
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the enemy die for his." ~ Patton
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I'm with you. Take the gloves off and duke it out. Sort the strong from the squishy.
We expect boorishness from loudmouths at awards shows; no so much within the hallowed halls of Congress. West would have said the same thing if anyone other than Beyonce had won–I don't think it can be considered defamation against Swift personally. (ie I don't think it's defamation to yell "Go Patriots," but it might be to yell "Bills suck!") I'll bet Swift sales spiked even more because of all the attention she's gotten, not less. She still performed her song on the show, and Beyonce gave up her own time to graciously let Swift make her acceptance speech. Swift comes out far ahead of West over this, and I can't see her having suffered any damage at all, certainly not any requiring compensation. Experts would also probably agree that while the VMA's are hardly the driving market force they once were, Swift actually ended up with more airtime, not less, due to West's cheesiness, and that probably translated to a sales spike.
I think Wilson was ruder, and on a much larger scale, to yell at the president during a speech (that arguably far more were watching than the VMA's). He single-handedly reduced the bar of civility every following president can expect in the future, no matter which party they're from, and that shouldn't be. We're not England or Asia; we don't hoot and holler in our halls of government or dissolve into fistfights. WIlson may have been passionate, but I think he was way out of line. It's a bigger incident to be rude in that forum than a music awards show, where before West took the stage there were countless bleeps of words that can't be said on tv and that was by the HOST. West is an egotistical brat; he's had similar tantrums when he lost to other black/male rappers. I also think people are looking too hard to find a nefarious racial angle, West is just an equal opportunity @$$.
Kanye West is a gay fish!
Thank you, Joe, for your insightful comment on the utter hypocrisy now consuming this nation. Your intelligent commentary is sorely missed while driving my kids to school in the mornings in Los Angeles.
LOL! beat me to the draw.
I find Kanye West's antics to be amusing for the very reason that it agitates you folks. Now THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT.
LOL. Beware the "Gorton Fisherman".
truer words have never been spoken…
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\”one who knows her history!\”
Are we doomed to repeat it?
Maybe Rep. Wilson should have yelled, "You bear false witness!" We know that Obama likes to talk about folks bearing false witness from his conference call with Christian leaders.
my2c – the respect for the president was officially ruined when Billy Boy proudly stood up and said "Presidents can get blowj@bs in the White House". If that weren't enough, Bush Jr. was booed on the floor of the senate back in 2004 by numerous democrats.
Trust me, the democrats have done nothing but drop the bar as the years go on.
"I also think people are looking too hard to find a nefarious racial angle"
Are you talking about Wilson or West? Because you've got all kinds of people screeching racism about Wilson, but not a peep about West. It's either both or neither…..(I think it's neither but victims will be victims….)
If the president doesn't want people calling him a liar, then I suggest he stop lying. As for the West & Swift debacle: Kanye West's mother shouldn't have indulged her son as much as she did. He's a spoiled attention grabbing a$$. I don't even listen to Taylor Swift's music, but I do know what he did was rude and if someone had done the same to him, he'd have been throwing a week long tantrum. He stole a younger girl's thunder. Hope he feels more like a man now. His non-apology was pathetic. Beyonce acted with class and she should be commended.
Just noticed – what's with West's hair? Is it now "in" to have paisley designs shaved into your head?
I'm a lot older, but I'd love to get into a ring with him for a couple 5-min rounds of MMA. Anybody here like to promote that? Maybe we can raise some money for charity? Maybe to benefit some half-way houses for runaway kids that have turned to drugs by being influenced by West and his hip-hop culture?
Pure, simple and true!
We can only guard against that in each generation. Eternal vigilance.
Indeed! the battlefield is no place for the meek.
bullies always go after targets that can't fight back.
You might wish to look at this: http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=16903
During the 2006 State of the Union address, Democrats stood to "hoot and holler" during President Bush's speech. Among those involved, Senator Obama.
So your statement that Wilson "single-handedly reduced the bar of civility every following president can expect in the future, no matter which party they're from" is liberal hot-air.
Wow! I never thought i would ever agree with BO!
Promote it and train you for it (or take your place myself). Those of us from Dogbrothers martial arts are always looking for new (or old) blood to send into the ring of fire! We'll have you deadly in six months tops! Hell, at 43 I still compete and love whippin youngun's rears!
Breaded plus Gay Fish equals Genius?
Liberal reps and senators lowered the bar with their in session attacks on Bush. Wilson is only playing by the rules they had set for all future presidents.
Everyone…We should like Obama one percent better. Theres an audio clip of him calling Kanye a Jackass lol, it made me smile.
So in my humble opinion here are the winners in both situations:
Kanye's outburst: Beyonce because she was a class act that night, Taylor Swift because she was gracious enough not to knee Kanye in the family jewels.
Wilson's outburst: The American people. As brutish as some think is was, FINALLY a Republican found his voice and spoke for the rest of us not in office. There was another Repuclican who "pulled his tent pegs" and beat feet out of the session. Not as much notariety because he didn't give a "shout out" for the People.
Regarding law suits: I seriously doubt Taylor Swift will sue Kanye "please go farther West ". Why would anyone want continued contact with a fool like that? I don't think it would be wise for Obama to sue a man speaking for We the People….and that's all I'm going to say about that.
I was just thinking that the next time he gets some award that someone should just walk up on stage and break his jaw…..
But I guess your way works too…..
Didn't you know??
You can't speak out against Obama because he's black, and to do so is racist…..
It would've been hilarious if Taylor would've asked the audience "So, does he ever shut the f**k up??" after Kanye walked off. People have been asking themselves that for years whenever he talks.
Word
Or Taylor Swift walk up and steal HIS moment… that would be funny too…
Gotta love them South Park guys. They have done more to knock the over indulged self-important types off thier pedestal than anyone else. Fish Sticks will live on longer than Mr West's popularity.
Go out and spend your money buying Taylor Swift merchandise, and mother f Kenye the whole time your doing it. Someone should pound a butt-plug in his pie-hole.azzzclown.
HA!!
He's not even a bully, Taylor Swift towers over that little runt! What is he, like 5'1"??
I really did not think Mr West would show up last night. When he did Jay did not mock but let Mr West show he cannot put a sentence together and then Jay gently chided Mr West about how his mother might feel. Jay Leno is a class act. He gave Mr West a chance and then let him show America who he was.
Taylor has already shown too much class to do that. And for the charity event lets try to help the poor who have been advised by ACORN!
I guess the answer to my question is 'yes'.
I won't comment on West as I have already wasted too much time on him. Rep. Joe Wison did break decorum that is without doubt. He apologized to the President which is proper and the President accepted this. I wonder then why is it OK for the President to break the very same decorum in the very same house minutes before. He called the opposition liars to thier face in that chamber. I guess the technical reason is that he did not name an individual. Now Pelosi proves her stupidity by giving legs to a story that should have died by Friday. The more Joe Wilson is in the news the more popular he becomes. Now the left tries to compare Mr. Wests' behaviour with Rep Wilson in order to BORK Wilson.
I won't comment on West as I have already wasted too much time on him. Rep. Joe Wison did break decorum that is without doubt. He apologized to the President which is proper and the President accepted this. I wonder then why is it OK for the President to break the very same decorum in the very same house minutes before. He called the opposition liars to thier face in that chamber. I guess the technical reason is that he did not name an individual. Now Pelosi proves her stupidity by giving legs to a story that should have died by Friday. The more Joe Wilson is in the news the more popular he becomes. Now the left tries to compare Mr. Wests' behaviour with Rep Wilson in order to BORK Wilson.
I get called lots of things, might as well at that to the list too *lol*
The more they try to destroy somone the more thier petty ways become apparent. It is now tuesday and Rep Wison is still in the news and his campaign coffers are overflowing. How is that brilliant tactic working out for you now Nancy?
LOL a little Napolean indeed!
I'm willing to give him points where it's due.
That would have been funny.
That would really have put him in his place. Public ridicule, the great equalizer.
100% right. This clearly was a pre-planned moment to create controversy and give people a reason to watch Jay Leno's show. I have no doubt that Jay Leno was behind it.
That was probably the second take. The first time he said: "I don't know all the facts…uhm..but obviously that little white girl was wrong."
Well, Kayne West actually assaulted Taylor Swift and took from her property that was rightfully in her possession at the time. He then proceeded to deprive her of the limited time given her on national television. He only returned the property required to utilize her television time after her time had expired. What is the value of a minute of time during the VMA awards. Something determinable from the cost of advertising.
By the way, nice stereotype West typified: muscular black man assaulting fragile white girl.
How tall is Kanye West? From that picture, it looks like Taylor Swift has about three inches on him.
One more reason he should have stayed off the stage.
I think Joe's point was that hip-hop shat itself years ago when as a new genre, it had a clean slate on which to write a positive image. It's now just a crass exercise in self-reference and consumer obedience to branding.
That and the whole "ho's and bitches" thing too.
[...] the original: Kanye West Vs. Joe Wilson This entry is filed under America – Blogs, Big Hollywood. You can follow any responses to this [...]
Should my wife's Endocrinologist be able to sue for slander when Obama told the nation that Dr's like him don't properly oversee her medications, so that he can amputate a limb and make $30, $40, or $50,000 and get "paid" immediately?
I meant only West, actually.
I say they settle it like men. A duel at sundown at the Heights of Weehawken New Jersey ala July 1804 when sitting Vice President Aaron Burr shot and mortally wounded former Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton.
When men were men……………………………………………………………and so were the women.
Now there's a real mind-bender, huh?
And according to the new House rules, it is now unlawful to use the word "liar" during House sessions. Not only is this disturbing, it's also stupid as Wilson did not actually say the word "liar," though I'm sure that won't stop them.
[...] http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jescalante/2009/09/15/kanye-west-vs-joe-wilson/ [...]
In Wilson's case, it's easy enough to prove the truth. If illegal immigrants are not covered by the president's plan, then 1) why include the 12 million illegal immigrants in the "47 million" uninsured that this plan is supposed to help, and 2) why is it forbidden to even ASK about the citizenship of those applying for the plan?
In West's case, I think he'll plead insanity and he was channeling ODB.
word dat, yo…
Here's the clip:
TMZ just released the audio of President Obama’s exact words:
http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/15/obama-calls-kanye-a...
Well, West can't cry racist after that one.
The blog, What About Out Daughters, further explores how STUPID it is for West to play into that stereotype:
http://www.whataboutourdaughters.com/2009/09/its-...
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