Roman Polanski, Child Rape, and the Shifting Sands of Cultural Morality
by Jeremy D. BoreingWhen I first started contributing to Big Hollywood, one of the rules I set for myself was to never discuss non-political figures, specifically folks in Hollywood. There is plenty to write about without insulting members of the industry you are trying to work in. So, in writing today about Roman Polanski, my purpose is not to malign the child-raping son-of-a-bitch himself, but to discuss the broader cultural ramifications of Hollywood’s support for his vile, child-raping son-of-a-bitchery.

The Founders of this nation understood full-well that a nation of liberty could not long survive without a strong moral foundation. If government exists to control people, then limited government naturally would control them very little. The potential upside was tremendous. If allowed to live free, a human being might pursue their own interests to the betterment of all of society. Freedom means a man might strive, risk, and fail, but it also meant that he might strive, risk, and succeed. As this process played out over time, it might well become the single greatest engine for innovation and wealth creation in all of human history.
But it came with great risk. To give man this freedom meant to largely leave him alone. Government could not overly interfere in his decision making, other than to ensure that he did not, in his pursuit of his own freedom, encroach unduly on the freedom of others. In fact, it might be said that our Founders saw government’s exclusive rightful job as providing just that much protection to its citizens — protecting their freedom from those that would rob them of it. Of course, that meant that government’s first job was to restrain government, that great and historic robber of liberty.
The problem with so limiting government, however, was that a government that cannot force people to conform to ideas they do not hold, cannot rob man unduly of his freedom to act on his own will, and only has a limited means by which to prevent a man from robbing the freedom of his fellow man. In order for man to live free from outside law, he must first have a strong and predictable internal code. It is that code which would provide him the majority of his regulation. Government would only have to concern itself with behaviors that violated that personal norm.
Of course, the Founders did not arrive at this conclusion in a vacuum. Free from the constraints of governmental religion, the Founders had actually read the Bible. While many churches attempt to act as mini-governments and control men, the New Testament makes clear that, “It is for Freedom that Christ has made us Free.” The Apostle Paul proclaimed that the “Power of sin is the law.” That, “law came that sin would increase,” but that Christ had, “Set us free from the law of sin and death.” What does this mean? It means that there is a natural, inherent evil in man that causes him to rebel against any authority. Paul says he did not even know what it was to covet, but then the command came saying “thou shalt not covet,” and sin in him, that inherent flaw, seized the opportunity afforded by the commandment and wrought in him every covetous desire.
In other words, rules (laws, external governance) do not make man better. On the contrary, they make him worse. But, taught the New Testament, Christ was the author of a New Covenant in which the written code no longer had power. Instead, God had freed man through the sacrifice of Christ and now offered man a New Life in which Christ lived in the man, writing his laws upon our hearts. It was only in this state, free from external governance which wars with our internal flaw — but given a new, personal internal righteousness that is Christ, that man was truly living the life God desired.
Whatever your religious belief, you can see how revolutionary this line of reasoning is, and how directly it impacted the Framers of our Nation. If God made man free, then he should be free indeed. It is the inner goodness that would make him good, not external law. This was an idea so important to our Founders that they almost all spoke about it. Washington even dedicated a portion of his Farewell Address to the idea:
“Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who that is a sincere friend to it can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?”
Free men must be moral men. Immoral men must be slaves to external regulation.
Which brings us back to the events of the last several weeks, and an examination, not of Roman Polanski’s moral choices, but of our moral health as a society. There is good news and bad news. The overwhelming public sentiment in the wake of Polanski’s apprehension in Switzerland seems to be in favor of his arrest and extradition. The majority of people recognize internally that drugging and raping a child in your care while she cries, says no, and asks to be taken home, and then fleeing justice, still qualify in the hearts of most American’s as abhorrent behaviors.
Of course, one might think that this would go without saying. It is a common belief that in prisons, hardened criminals and even murders won’t tolerate child-rapists. Even people whose own moral codes are tolerant of extreme violence and crime know that raping children is especially evil. Here we find the bad news.
Apparently many prominent people in the arts and politics are blind to such wanton acts of depravity that even convicted murderers acknowledge. The danger here is readily apparent. The Hollywood community that believes Roman Polanski does not deserve to be punished for raping a child, or that having sex with anyone of any age who is crying, saying no, and asking you to stop is “rape-rape,” are the very people who pride themselves in setting the trend for the rest of us. And the politicians around the world who are coming to the aid of this predator are the same men and women who believe they have the authority to define the external laws that they would see regulate us. That means that while we may all commonly agree that raping children is evil, the trendsetters and external morality regulators out on the leading edge of society do not think it is evil, and they are working tirelessly to bend our morality to their own through art and law.
Now, it might seem a bit far-fetched to say that a few actors in Hollywood supporting a brilliant, tortured artist could possibly lead to a culture that is so morally bankrupt that they cannot identify raping children as evil, but consider how rapidly common morality can change when the trendsetters and politicians take a strong stand.
Whatever a person’s personal feelings about homosexuality, it is beyond dispute that, with some few and specific exceptions, for most of human history homosexuality has been considered immoral by most people. And yet, it is equally clear that our culture is moving quickly toward a position that not only sees this behavior as morally acceptable, but that sees the very belief that homosexuality might in fact be immoral as itself being immoral.
This fundamental shift in a common moral-view has happened very rapidly. It has only been eleven years since Ellen DeGeneres came out of the closet on primetime, an act widely associated with the death of her show. In 1997, America just “wasn’t ready.” Contrast that with 2008 when the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation determined that 42% of HBO’s primetime hours were dedicated to depicting the lives of homosexual people (ABC was the highest rated non-cable network at 25%). And of course, Ellen herself is back, and one of the biggest stars on television.
It isn’t just in the media. There is a nationwide movement to legalize same-sex marriage and brand as hate-speech any opposition to homosexuality. Even Bill Clinton has changed his mind on the subject. According to a recent Gallup poll, only 48% of Americans currently see homosexuality as immoral. The exact number who see it as being moral. That number keeps moving, and only in one direction.
Now, again, the point is not to debate the morality of homosexuality itself, but to demonstrate just how rapidly a common moral position can shift, for better or for worse, when the media and politicians lead the way. In the case of homosexuality, thousands of years of moral structure are reversing themselves in a window of only forty or fifty years, but for most of recorded history, the age of sexual consent was much younger than our current law would allow. In fact, the common age of consent across numerous cultures throughout most of the last several thousand years has been the age of puberty, typically thought to occur between the ages of12 and 14 (Shakespeare’s Juliet was only 13 when she decides to marry Romeo).
If the trendsetters have been successful in altering the common moral position on homosexuality in so short a time, even with all of human history working against them, how much more quickly might they succeed in altering the common view of sex with thirteen-year-olds with almost all of human history behind them? And if they succeed here, what lines are left for them to cross?
To be sure, moral absolutes have always shifted with time. When our forebears took slaves, it was certainly not morally good, but the absolute moral disparity was perhaps not clear before the signing of the Declaration of Independence. Before that great document, many forms of slavery and servitude existed in the world, and most everyone lived at some point on that sliding scale. The complete slavery of black men and women was only an extreme level of the general tyranny and oppression that marked all men.
Only after the signing, when the natural rights of man were declared loudly as being from God, and violations of those rights were declared unnatural acts and acts of war, was black slavery in this nation truly singled out as a special breed of crime, and not a degree of crime. In other words, it is only in the presence of good that evil is clearly seen. The question is, who should a society look to for guidance in judging common morality? God and philosophers; or government and movie stars?
As Jefferson pointed out, God has the power and right to force his beliefs on us and yet made us free, the government has not that right, and yet seeks to wield that power over every aspect of our lives. The media seems obliged to help. One thing is certain, if we ignore the former, then as Washington warned, we will be slaves of the latter. If so, we will all be sons-of-bitches for it.




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Liberals are sick perverts. What else is new.
http://noliberalspin.blogtownhall.com/2009/10/20/...
The Anti Liberal Zone.
http://noliberalspin.blogtownhall.com/
"drilling into the empty well of liberalism."
things chage over time. I remember hearing that Elvis was a dirty. Now he is considered wholesome. KISS was satanic, now High School kids play thier stuff during half time.
we've not just beat the dead horse, but jumped up and down on it till the goo burst out over the homosexuality is immoral debate so I wont do it here, but the fact that our ("Nobel and falsely accused") prisoners still hold child rapists as the lowest of the low, ought to settle the debate for even the most jaded.
Jebus – why aren't you running for PoTUS?
The Left has effectively pushed God out of public life, therefore anything goes (yeehaw!). To think that anyone would come to the defense of a child rapist is absolutely obscene, yet here we are. People don't need to be Puritanical, they just need to do the right thing, hence, God's influence in one's life is critical.
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Good article, but God, that picture is disgusting – "portrait of an unrepentant child molester". He looks like a younger Rod Blagoevich.
Living in L.A. and working in the entertainment industry, I fight Hollywood hypocrite Lefties wherever I find them.
HOWEVER, in reading this insightful post I'm reminded of Joseph Schumpeter's predictions from 70 years back on how Capitalism (or more accurately, Consumerism) destroys traditional values and institutions over time. I know this makes me sound like an irrational socialist but not enough conservatives talk about Capitalism's dark side.
Think about it: Why is the most socially liberal segment of our society also the most affluent? Try finding a Republican, let alone a social conservative, in San Francisco, Silicon Valley, Marin County, Beverly Hills, Malibu, Brentwood, or Santa Monica. I've lived in several of these places and besides the bumper sticker liberalism, you'll also find the most New Age/Deep-Ecologist/Starbucks-drinking/Whole Foods-shopping/BMW-driving people in the country.
And despite getting paid Million$ for working only 20 weeks out of the year in front of the camera, a lot of these klieg-light Democrats also have the local cocaine dealers on speed dial. Consumerism's poster kids, all of them.
wow yeah
i particularly like the reminiscent of a bunkbed ladder.
Voof
"Free men must be moral men." Absolutely agree.
Beautiful essay about a terrible subject.
If you take your argument to the logical conclusion, our culture will return to a standard of morality — when the jihadists take over and impose sharia on us all. Then we'll be back to modest women in burkhas, homosexuality punishable by death, and thieves with only one hand. If you don't adhere to some standard, someone will impose it on you. The Romans found this out. Those who don't learn from history, etc. etc.
IN A WORD: Convenience. And Capitalism excels at this in a way Socialism never can (how Ironic for the Hollywood Left, eh?)
LONG EXPLANATION:From Schumpeter's Austrian School of Economics, the logic is thus: Over time, Capitalism teaches people to make even the most personal decisions based on personal cost-benefit value system.
When people become affluent, they not only apply cost-benefit decision making to purchases, but they eventually begin to apply this "what's in it for me" thinking to their values: ie, whether to get married (and divorced- and divorced- and divorced) , how many children to have -or whether to have children, period(kids get in the way of easy trips to Vegas), and ultimately, whether to follow the rules and ethics of an invisible God when these commandments conflict with burning personal desires.
To these questions that define human relationships, the Left definitely applies a cost-benefit morality. They can't help it. Just think about Abortion, for instance. But then again, how many conservatives also take the cost-benefit easy road when deciding to stick Grandma in a nursing home under a stranger's paid supervision, instead of keeping her in the spare bedroom and looking after her personally at great time cost?
There's another example that gets forgotten these days — Years ago Dan Quayle was soundly ridiculed when he condemned "Murphy Brown" for getting pregnant outside of marriage and not getting the father involved. Now, how many hollywood starlets have kids who are growing up and learning that fathers are only useful to provide sperm to create more kids (I feel extremely sorry for Jodie Foster's boys, who will undoubtedly grow up to be even more useless as dads than her own father was)
The left hasn't succeeded in pushing God out of my public life!
Two things are happening here….one is the release of puritan mores and conventional wisdom. This happens usually in cycles and a society can generally recover. Mozart was controversial as well. Plato is quoted as saying that teenagers no longer respect their elders. There many examples of this and it is individuals discovering freedom and applying it. We could even return one day to a more "puritan" existence because we like it better, who knows. It is a relative taste.
The second more important line is natural law and our understanding of it. It is rooted more in the absolute and not in the relative. Elvis' gyrating pelvis is much different than rape. And I don't believe they are correlated. Before Elvis, rape of certain segments of society was thought of as no big deal…think plantation owners and black slaves. And in the 1700's American was very puritan. So I see a huge difference in personal expression and in the transgression of natural law both by individuals and oppressive governments.
I'm not sure capitalism or consumerism can be defined as good or bad, dark or light, righteous or evil.
It's simply a method to allow self determined interaction between consenting humans. It's not the process itself, as much as the goals and desires of those participating.
Some one may choose to try and sell me grossly inappropriate merchandise, but in a free market, I am not compelled to purchase them.
Which is pretty much what I take from this post.
That and the line "broader cultural ramifications of Hollywood’s support for his vile, child-raping son-of-a-bitchery"
I'm going to be laughing at that one for the rest of the day!
It has always been the communists goal to break down the moral fiber of this country, so that they can do what they're doing now. The one thing that they underestimated(I hope)though is timing. I don't believe that the American people have reached the bottom of the immoral dung heap so that may be in our favor.
EXCELLENT article BTW, I really enjoyed reading it.
Oh, in case anyone wants a GOOD look into what these commies/socialists believe, the books they read and recommend then go to this site. I would not be surprised if they were advising this administration. I actually found this site by accident last night. Noam Chomsky heads it BTW.
http://www.zmag.org/znet_help.htm
That`s why movie stars and politicians have such a strong alliance. Both professions earn their keep by fooling the public into believing the unbelievable just to advance their careers. Inane statements they make about matters of importance for the rest of society may bring them success in a world of make believe but fall short in real life, and reaching the top of their game they realize it was all an act, far from the truth.
While homosexuality is specifically and repeatedly identified as sin in the Bible, the book never mentions age of consent. While certainly rape is wrong, the Bible never condemns sexual relations based on age, as long as they happen within marriage. Yes, Hollywood is on a subtle crusade to change society's views about age of consent, but this may not be as bad, Biblically speaking, as their crusade to mainstream homosexuality.
Also, both conservatives and liberals push "freedom", but define it differently. The Founders wanted freedom from government tyranny, but presupposed regulation from God, self and society. The problem with liberals is that they want only certain kinds of freedom from government, namely in those areas in which government should be curbing freedom (e.g., abortion).
Finally the real issue emerges as to what is tearing this country apart. Christianity leads to real positive changes in people from the inside-out, whereas government forces false changes in people from the outside-in. Without our Judeo-Christian heritage as a foundation for our society, we are doomed to eventual slavery by government and the great human freedom & liberty experiment will have ended.
The "Founders" were some of the most immoral men to ever walk this planet. They were thieves, rapists and murderers, either directly or indirectly (doesn't matter).
Interesting how half those testimonials came from outside the U.S. Every time I hear the name Noam Chomsky, I think of that cliche we were taught in elementary school. "A mind is a terrible thing to waste."
Well said! and about time someone pointed these connections out. Thanks JBD.
"That`s why movie stars and politicians have such a strong alliance. Both professions earn their keep by fooling the public into believing the unbelievable just to advance their careers."
I flat out STOLE that! Great take!
my very liberal buddy refers to them as 'Trustafarians" you know the modern hippy dreadlocked protestor class
BP:
BP:
I believe that most of the wealthy folks in this country no longer feel they have earned it. Look at the wealthy today, they are either the grandchildren or great-grandchildren of this country's historic industrialists or they are in the sports, media & entertainment businesses where they have found tremendous wealth over the past 20+ years that is much larger than anyone ever imagined. Combine that with the new technologists from Google, Facebook, MySpace and others. These owners became billionaires over night. My guess is that they felt they won the lottery vs. truly earning the money.
Where are today's Howard Hughes, Henry Ford, Vanderbilt, Carnegie, etc? These guys never cared much for government. Back then, the Federal government was so small as to be insignificant to these guys. I grew up near the town of Bassett, VA, which was entirely built to supply Bassett Furniture with a steady stream of factory workers. Government had little to say about an entire town in those days. Bassett built the houses, the roads, the schools, the courthouse…everything. Same with Hershey, PA and many others.
Today, the closest examples to this mindset is probably Bill Gates and Donald Trump? Are they conservatives? They definitely feel they earned their money, don't feel ashamed of it, nor are they big friends of government intervention.
But now that the wealthy no longer understand the blood, sweat, and tears it takes to build a business or industry– they have no respect for the wealth. The only conservative wealthy today in the US are largely small business owners. Look at the guys who own companies with 10-100 people on a payroll. If they are not in the media/entertainment business, they are largely all conservative.
BP:
I believe that most of the wealthy folks in this country no longer feel they have earned it. Look at the wealthy today, they are either the grandchildren or great-grandchildren of this country's historic industrialists or they are in the sports, media & entertainment businesses where they have found tremendous wealth over the past 20+ years that is much larger than anyone ever imagined. Combine that with the new technologists from Google, Facebook, MySpace and others. These owners became billionaires over night. My guess is that they felt they won the lottery vs. truly earning the money.
Where are today's Howard Hughes, Henry Ford, Vanderbilt, Carnegie, etc? These guys never cared much for government. Back then, the Federal government was so small as to be insignificant to these guys. I grew up near the town of Bassett, VA, which was entirely built to supply Bassett Furniture with a steady stream of factory workers. Government had little to say about an entire town in those days. Bassett built the houses, the roads, the schools, the courthouse…everything. Same with Hershey, PA and many others.
Today, the closest examples to this mindset is probably Bill Gates and Donald Trump? Are they conservatives? They definitely feel they earned their money, don't feel ashamed of it, nor are they big friends of government intervention.
But now that the wealthy no longer understand the blood, sweat, and tears it takes to build a business or industry– they have no respect for the wealth. The only conservative wealthy today in the US are largely small business owners. Look at the guys who own companies with 10-100 people on a payroll. If they are not in the media/entertainment business, they are largely all conservative.
It sure seems to me that communications between populations is what brings 'worldliness' to any society. The earth IS one big melting pot of diverse people have been 'mongralized' by war, immigration, and travel for thousands of years. (a very odd thing about humans, it seems.)
I still remember the absolute culture shock of hearing Northern accents on TV in the '50s. As a child of the deep South it was an amazing awakening to new vocabulary (who knew a 'cock' was anything but a male bird?) and American 'normals'. Who in the world would think somebody would eat 'dinner' at night?? Weird!
Movies spread information, both good and bad. I don't watch them, have never seen a Polansky movie and never will. I don't judge him by his 'art', but by his actions. It would be a pleasure to sit on his jury, but I'll bet he dies awaiting resolution.
I'm not sure I buy into the Hollywood conspiracy theory. That is, I don't think people in Hollywood have some sort of master plan for making us all as hedonistic and perverted as they are. I think that's just the way a lot of them live because…well, that's Hollywood. Hollywood attracts damaged people. It also takes regular people and turns them into damaged people.
However, I think it is WE who empower them. They wouldn't be the rich, pampered, self-important scumbags they are if they weren't a booming market for what they're selling. They couldn't be trend-setters if there weren't a mass of pathetic losers out here in the regular world who desperately want to be cool, hip, edgy, and who need someone to show them how. It's not enough that they provide us with an hour or two of escape from our everyday lives, maybe with a little freshman-level philosophy thrown in to flatter our intellectual pretensions. So many of want to BE LIKE THEM. We want the whole package. But part of us realizes that we'll never have all that, and so we also gloat when they self-destruct in public. Hey, we're not perfect but at least we're not THAT crazy…
It's funny you mention Clinton. I actually wonder how much the Lewinsky affair and his testimony on the definition of "is" has played in the degradation you mentioned earlier. Clearly, we have no data to point to on this and it is just one guy engaging in an act that most guys enjoy. But it seems to me that his actions in 1998 changed the dialogue in this country over the past 10 years. Would Whoopi have said "it's not like this was rape-rape" if Clinton had been sexually moral and not committed perjury? We'll never know, but these attitudes and Clinton's stumble follow similar timelines.
Sounds to me like we have a certified product of the public school system here!
Anyway, Hollywood will always be Hollywood and there's not much we can do about it. If we want to preserve our own values, we have to stop taking our cultural cues from the Beautiful People. The very fact that we are so outraged by Polanski's behavior means we (even his detractors) somehow acknowledge him as a leader. We hold him to a higher standard, we expect him to set an example, we expect to see our moral values reflected in his behavior. And why? Merely because his name and face are in the news sometimes and because he makes movies and is rich and famous. We've basically taken famous people and said "Here we are; lead us and we will follow."
The problem with liberals is they believe in the supremacy of the state over the individual, as opposed to supremacy of the individual over the state.
I suppose an existential, hypothetical argument could be made over that statement in a professional debating society, but on the ground, at the front lines, there's no doubt which statement works and which one doesn't.
Like I used to tell my daughter at the end of ever Disney movie, when the Prince and Princess ride off into the sunset, and the village people are over flowing at joy, prepared to live happily ever after.
"What happens when their great grandson turns out to be a mean king?"
I seriously doubt "the Hollywood community" as a whole is in support of that dirtbag Polanski, just because a few creative types signed a meaningless petition that won't help him a damn bit (good, I say); many in the entertainment industry (including the otherwise vile likes of Bill Maher and Joy Behar) have spoken out AGAINST Poleinski, which kinda puts holes into your theory that ALL of Hollywood is in support of a convicted child rapist; by all means condemn those who are supporting "it", but give credit where it's due also…
We're like monkeys in a vast monkey social hierarchy – always sucking up to and emulating the Alpha monkeys. It makes us feel better, more important, more powerful, a little bit ahead of the curve. We don't want to be one of those *other* monkeys who don't have a clue. For every one of us who feels that this is leading us down the wrong path, there are millions who are running on instinct, kissing the Alpha butt in exchange for some real or imaginary social capital. It's ego. It's security. It's human nature. I don't know how to fight human nature.
The point that really gets me about that site is the fact that they decry capitalism but they're BEGGING for money to keep their website going. Helllo but if you believed in capitalism you wouldn't need to be begging.
Mr. Boreing's essay is troubling for me. I am a homosexual who believes that Roman Polanski's crimes are beyond evil. Drugging and raping a child is a detestable, evil act. But Mr. Boreing's condemnation of Polanski's evil acts is only the tip of the iceberg here. He is equating child rape with homosexuality. He is making the argument that homosexuality is immoral because for thousands of years most of human civilization thought it was immoral and it only took about fifty years in western civilization's recent past to reverse that notion (which he implies is a bad thing). Well, slavery was the norm for thousands of years as well, and in a span of 5 years (which included a bloody civil war) that notion was soundly defeated, for the betterment of society. Same thing can be said for the treatment of women as property (which includes the denial of the suffrage and the corporal punishment of a wife by her husband), child labor, lynchings, and, yes, homosexual progroms.
I am disappointed in Mr. Boreing's thinly veiled homophobic ranting. I do agree that those who would want to see Polanski free are blatantly ignoring the evil in his heart that made him rape a poor child, but in the grand scheme of things, Mr. Boreing is waging war against millions of gay people with his abhorrent argument that the barbaric acts of fledgling civilizations from our past should be the norm because they remained so for thousands of years, up until we became enlightened (which he views as an abomination… I suppose he also denigrates evolution, but that is another topic for another day)…
[...] Phenomenally excellent screed from Jeremy Boreing at Big Hollywood on good and evil, a moral society, freedom and slavery – in view of public reaction to the apprehending of Roman Polanski. In summary: Free men must be moral men. Immoral men must be slaves to external regulation. [...]
"Now, again, the point is not to debate the morality of homosexuality itself, but to demonstrate just how rapidly a common moral position can shift, for better or for worse, when the media and politicians lead the way."
Social comments and analytics for this post…
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I'd like you to check out the following stories
*Teacher Pleads Guilty To Abusing Student, 14:
http://www.wbaltv.com/news/20909063/detail.html
*Duke University Professor Arrested for Molesting
Black son and then pimping him on eBay:
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/06/media...
*Obama appointee lauded NAMBLA figure:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/b...
Here are a couple of trends I noticed:
First, all the pedophiles and their apologists are homosexuals.
Second, homosexuals rights groups like GLAAD and the Human Rights Campaign have NEVER publicly condemned these guys.
So, can you understand why there is suspicion that homosexuals may at least tolerate pedophiles?
Also, don't stories like those linked above vindicate former homosexuals like singer Donnie McClurkin
who argue that their former lifestyle was not natural but imposed by male pedophiles?
http://www.blacknews.com/pr/donnie101.html
Just something to think about.
http://www.crossrhythms.co.uk/articles/music/A_Pa...
He didn't argue that at all. He talked about homosexuality as an example of how we view things as being "moral" or not can change. He also talked about views of slavery changing-do you think he was promoting slavery? Society's view of homosexuality has changed very quickly, possibly because of technology. Changing views on womens' rights, slavery, etc took longer, but they changed too. Obviously these are good changes. Our views of something else-having sex with children could change too, and not for the better. That's all he said.
God has been pushed from the public square in western civilization since the renaissance.
The 'thinly veiled homophobic ranting" I just don't get from this Mr. Rotolo but I see how one might misconstrue.
But on the other hand the Pro-Gay & Lesbian community have a tendency – call it chronic – to overplay the tolerance to their cause. And the slightest hint of tolerance mushroomed into a mandate by the American people. (Gee. Did they borrow that from Rahm or did Rahm borrow it from them?) And perhaps an interjection from our fine 'new allies' in the Middle East could lend a unique insight into the 'tolerance issue.'
Iran. Saudi Arabia. Yemen. Syria. How do you guys – our 'new allies' – feel about homosexuality?
Poland. Czech Republic. Columbia. How do you guys – our 'old allies' – feel about homosexuality?
The Global Compass on homosexuality doesn't seem to point north. You know the Global Compass the hyper-leftists feel is so precious for us to follow. Oh right! But we are America. And We must rise above and follow our own better moral compass. The American Compass? Oh right! "WE" follow the Global Compass when we want multilateralism and the American Compass when "WE" want unilateralism. Sounds like the Harvey Compass to me.
Look Mr. Rotolo. WE and not "WE" are going to follow the American Compass (and don't give a hoot about the UN Compass or the Norway Compass) regardless of who is POTUS and WE seem to be vastly opposed to same-sex marriage. The Pro-Gay & Lesbian lobby should take 'soft-tolerance' by the American public, live their lives accordingly and be damn happy that they aren't living with our 'new allies' where this behavior – or lifestyle choice – would be dealt with by capital punishment. Trying thread their lifestyle into the American fabric for the sake of a tiny minority can only lead to a greater backlash.
Or is this just another front of the New Cold War that the counter-culture must fight?
I must commend a fellow Ariste du Bullplop when I see one. Masterfully executed, sir
I especially enjoyed the nigh-invisible segue betwixt the subjects of child-rape and homosexuality, followed by a barely one-hair-shy-of-believable insistance that you're "not" conflating the two. No easy task, considering you're outline basically breaks down to "child-rape is a bad thing. Now, speaking of those gays…"
In all seriousness, though, I really can't believe that THIS is still bandied about like accepted fact:
" The Hollywood community that believes Roman Polanski does not deserve to be punished for raping a child"
NO ONE "supporting" Polanski has said that they don't want him to be punished. Some have said he's already been punished, others have said he is owed leniency, still others have said that the broader picture of his life ought mitigate whatever punishment he gets/got.
(continued)
(continued)
But, of course, acknowledging THAT makes it harder to use the Polanski as a cudgel to smack around "Hollywood" for the infinitely more serious sin of supporting Democrat political candidates; so one understands the conundrum you're in
Good screed.
You are wrong about homosexuality though. That overweening concern is a fairly modern American concern. Many historical cultures had little concern about it at least so long as people had kids. In many cultures its largely "meh" As an example Homosexuality was decriminalized in France in 1791(cf Wikipedia) The one is obviously exempted is our American pseudo Judeo/Christian one and a few others Victorian England for example
As far as the age of consent issue, thats been shifting up a long time. Wikipedia notes that it was raised back in the benighted 19th century (in England) and I've read even earlier (it went from IIRC 12 to 14 in 18th century England over child exploitation concerns.
As for what Polanski was accused of. Whether she was 13 or 23 is almost irrelevant. If true he drugged and raped someone and he should, tragic brilliant director or not, should have got life.
[...] Polanski” MSNBC: Jamie Foxx has no sympathy for Polanski Jeremy D. Boreing, Big Hollywood: Roman Polanski, Child Rape, and the Shifting Sands of Cultural Morality Patterico’s Pontifications: Associate Producer of Polanski Documentary Spams This Blog With [...]
[...] Big Hollywood: When You’ve Lost ‘SNL’: Whoopi Gets Slammed Jeremy D. Boreing, Big Hollywood: Roman Polanski, Child Rape, and the Shifting Sands of Cultural Morality Patterico’s Pontifications: Associate Producer of Polanski Documentary Spams This Blog With [...]
things chage over time. I remember hearing that Elvis was a dirty. Now he is considered wholesome. KISS was satanic, now High School kids play thier stuff during half time.
we've not just beat the dead horse, but jumped up and down on it over the is homosexuality immoral debate so I wont do it here, but the fact that our ("Nobel and falsely accused") prisoners still hold child rapists as the lowest of the low, ought to settle the debate for even the most jaded.
Not only do the really upper-class folks often tend to be the most liberal, they've also produced a lot of the most "socially revolutionary" people. Look at Bill Ayers; his father was a major utilities executive whom he mooched off of while preaching about the revolution and so on. The same could be said about some of the other Weathermen; the family of one even had their own private deer park. I don't know how to explain this situation; I just know it's a lot more common than most people want to admit.
One would think they would have learned from Air America's example.
The destroyed the Native Americans and their way of life, genius. Or, do they not count?
Actually, what is taught in public school is nowhere near the truth, especially when it comes to the "founding" of this country. Nice retort, by the way.
As I understand, it became front and center in the aftermath of the last French revolution. The socialists were trying to break the bond between the Church and society.
They also did a great job of convincing people the Church is anti-science, when in fact, many of the greatest scientists of western society were either clergy (notably the Jesuits) or educated in Church run universities.
The left's mantra of "change" is traveling to it's natural endgame. Change is a process of demolishing old fashioned American society and the ideals of the constitution. Americans, like dogs reacting on the impulse of the civil rights era, attack any "conservative" standing in the way of the far Left's change mantra. We will arrive at a change that will be extremely deadly and oppressive – the opposite of America. "Moderates" are the most likely to fall for the "change" mantra because they lack the intellect to forcast where the endless demolishing of America ends. They heard change is good and they want to be "cutting edge" and popular! They do not want to think about the consequences or weigh the result of this demolition of America. If it feels good, do it! Ask Brooks and Meghan McCain.
I'm game, bring it on. Let's hear you fact based, reasonable, logical argument the founding fathers were the most immoral men on earth.
I've done my home work too!
And Republicans molest children in vast numbers.
Proof is here: http://www.armchairsubversive.org/
What's the point?
There are corrupt people on both sides of the aisle. There are corrupt people molesting children while preaching about God on Sundays.
And you also feel sorry for Palin's grandchild, who will also grow up without a father.
Founding father Thomas Jefferson also had this to say:
And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter — Thomas Jefferson, in an 1823 letter to John Adams.
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular Superstitions of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men women and children since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth. — Thomas Jefferson
This is going to sound anathemic to many readers if I have any, but… I'm in favor of conservatism making room for homosexuality in its overall schema. It isn't going away and people aren't going to change their minds and try to ban it anymore. It's only going to become more and more accepted. So let's accept it.
Traditional marriage, the kind I have, is ancient and modern. It's not based on equality as gay relationships are on the face of it. I think conservatism ought to make a leap forward, leapfrog the "gay marriage" thing, which to me is wrong because of the physical polarity issue. I think we need to reframe things. We're going to have to respect the legal rights of same-sex couples that want to pair. I think we should call it parriage, so it's very clear what we're talking about right away.
The Bible condones slavery in a number of places. Saying that enlightened Christians or Jews discovered the evil of slavery from their Bible is pure and utter horseshiate. People discovered slavery was wrong by rejecting their bibles and realizing how utterly preposterous it was to support slavery from a moral position.
"Why is the most socially liberal segment of our society also the most affluent?" any theories to explain it?
How many are closet conservatives? Why the disconnect with these wealthy supporting policies that would make them not wealthy?
Jeremy Boreing, ( is your last name supposed to be a joke?) I actually find you to be more of a threat to society than Mr. Polanski. Regardless of his innocence or guilt in the matter, your repeated reference to him as "the child-raping son-of-a-bitch" shows exactly how unobjective you are. You would make a stronger case by not vilifying the guy. But I guess that's a sign of the times. I think Mr Polanski should pay for his crime, but I don't think your wholly sensationalistic, yellow journalistic ranting does nothing to shed light on the actual situation. Also, since when is a thirteen year old a "child"? You use this tem only to serve your own purpose, nothing more, as a way to make the crime more reprehensible. Why not call her what she was, a teenager? I guess it doesn't sound as good. "the teen-raping-son-of-a-bitch. This article says more about you than it does about Polanski. Has our society lost all sense of nuance? That's right, the only thing that gets our attention these days is a Paris Hilton upskirt. I fear for the future.
I'm having a hard time finding the connection between Polanski's rape of a drugged 13 year old girl and the author's segue into a rant on adult homosexuality. It's totally inappropriate. The sexual behavior of consenting adults is no one's business for starters and by definition not criminal if consent by both adult parties is given so I'm absolutely perplexed as to how homosexuality which isn't deviant nor criminal got inserted into a child rape story.
Sorry, Jeremy Boreing, but, here is one conservative that doesn't give a damn as it isn't any of my business what consenting adults of any gender do in their bedroom. Your homosexuality rant wrapped inappropriately around Roman Polanski is just that. It detracts from the issue of Hollywood's moral degeneracy in insisting his crime be exempted.
Being immoral cannot be proven by facts, morality depends on your individual belief system. That was my opionion because I do not believe that this country was "founded", it was stolen from the rightful inhabitants who were here before the Europeans. Those people were willing to share with the new residents but that wasn't good enough so they were destroyed as the Europeans took over the country. Whether you believe this to be reasonable or logical would be your opinion, which you are entitled to – as am I.
The Founders were not wood chopping woodsies, but provincial in sense and sensibility, with faith. Humans have not changed, even when mores were tight, the privledged have always been allowed excesses, the rule of law is to temper human foibles. Remember back to shortly after that liberati drugged and raped an innocent girl, the smear was directed at the girl and her parents by his fellow liberati. Now they do the same, it's always okay when a crime is done on another, to the liberati, for "it was not rape rape".
Not really true. That child has a father, not a sperm donor.
absolutely, it is just interesting to see how things become acceptable over time.
I was never a Clinton fan but time and current situations almost make me nostalgic for his presidency to a certain extent.
There are some things that should never be acceptable to society. Rape ought to be on this list with out further discussion. Many things are up for debate, this should never be. The people who will dismiss this crime ought not feel comfortable putting themselves on record this way.
Move over if grooming is to be done, for the old ones attract the best vermin. Hey get away from my monolith too.
Every liberal I've ever met….maybe a dozen of them, were either broke hippies or trust fund 'kids' that never had to work for the basics.
If your day to day expenses are paid for, there is among the charitable, a desire to lift that burden from others.
The sad fact is that like water, humans are all to willing to take the path of least resistance and float along on welfare and not strive for a nice car, boat, plane or fine home…just make do and gripe about not having enough..
The trust funders call for more money to help the 'down-trodden'….the same people they have ruined by their (ignorant) desire to do 'good'.
I call them the 'Guilty Rich'.
I don't think anyone, left or right, hollywood or not, really supports Polanski. He raped a child. End of story.
I'm sure some people are sympathetic to him because of whatever circumstances or he is seen as a great artist, but still… He raped a child. The only people who REALLY think he should be forgiven are crazy and a very small minority.
Whether or not I agree with you, I won't say, because I'm like two seconds from clocking out, so I'm not sticking around to read this for the third time – but I will!
But I will gladly give you credit for a polite, reasonable, logical post (which is why I have to reread it, because with liberals, it's usually easy to spot).
In my opinion, this is exactly what's been missing from the left, and for way too long. I would love to sit down and reasonably debate a liberal on issues, but the people running the democratic party and modern liberal movement, are forcing those out of the party. I have people who I thought were friends, who no longer speak to me because I listen to Rush Limbaugh. Screw 'em.
Thank you, and I hopefully look forward to a lively, civil debate on the issue, here on BH!
Yes, they were privileged in their time. Let's start with Thom. Jefferson, he should have been prosecuted, for his overt flaunting misstress who was not white, this was against the commonwealth laws of the time. Ben was a womanizing drunk, who got by on his charm. Geo. Washington was a priveleged git, whom murdered a french officer and got off. Yes I can go on, but what they created was greater than the sum of parts, in theory. Must we dwell on indentured servitude or slavery also, but you used the phrase, "most immoral men to walk the planet", wow, did they purge their comrades after the revoution like Chev Rivera, or destroy the Kulaks thus allowing millions to die while eating well in Moscow, how many who died during the cultural revolution. The bifurcation of judgement is plain my little Javert, to paint the portrait ignores the warts, that phrase infers ignoring the leperosy on other works.
They enslaved members of rival tribes, too. Let's give them full credit for their "pre-contact" culture.
Eh, the baby would be better off if Levi had been a sperm donor and not an uneducated, arrogant jerk going around slandering the Palin family.
But I think Trapp will be OK because his maternal grandfather will step in and be a father to him. Like Clarence Thomas' grandfather stepped in when his sperm donor flaked out.
Again, a typical "American" view of justice and perspective on life. Remember, there is a world out there that doesn't think like America and they may not share America's puritanical view on Polanski.
The "native americans" destroyed the previous native inhabitants, fossil records and archeology prove this or would you believe it was one big potlatch. That my ancestors were raped and killed by self rightious Europeans counts, there was a war, we lost. Yes Washington was responsible for the genecide of indians in north western Pa,, but they were responsible for raids on settlers, doing a little killing, burning, rapeing, kidnapping (except the little ones whom would not travel well, those they bashed their heads in on the doorways when babies), Or do they not count?
Oh I think immorality can be proven by facts, most definitely. For example the Polanski fiasco. Confessing to drugging and raping a minor is all the evidence I need.
And while true, every one has their own belief systems, there are some things all humans can agree on, such as theft, murder, rape, etc.. These are generally referred to as property rights. I can break my window, you can't, is a quick, pithy example.
I'm not sure how you define rightful owners of the Americas, because humans originally migrated from Africa (current, best theory, but it's being really put to the test with recent archeological findings in the Balkans). So no one in America were the "original owners."
You originally stated – and I quote – "some of the most immoral men to ever walk this planet." And you have in no way proven that statement. History is replete with horribly reprehensible characters. How's Mao Tse Tung grab you? About Vlad the Impaler? Ghengis Khan certainly deserves review. What about Jim Jones and his massacre?
That's how humans treated each other since the beginning of civilization. And I predict it's the fate for humans for a long time to come. And despite pop culture, the Native Americans did the same thing. The Mayan massacres being an excellent example. 60,000 was it human sacrifices a year to save the planet?
There were also a lot of other issues at the time, that they stopped teaching in school decades, if not centuries ago. For example, the Native Americans signed treaties with Britain, not the colonies, several of which, decided they were not bound to follow. Another is the population of America doubled in the first twenty years of our existence, and they would not fit on the sea board.
George Washington spent his 2 terms trying his damnedest to use the federal government to force the states to follow his opinion that Native American tribes should be a federal issue, and accorded the same status as sovereign nations. Didn't work. And Thomas Jefferson wrote endlessly on how he believed the Native Americans were just as evolved as Europeans, and should be treated as fellow citizens. Too bad he didn't feel the same towards African slaves.
I need a better idea of your definition of immoral.
the sheer numbers of heterosexuals who rape children, molest girls, rape women, and commit unspeakable acts of sexual violence against others overwhelmingly dwarf the incidents of homosexuals committing these crimes. Is this a good argument that heterosexuals are also tolerating pedophiles or that heterosexuality itself is degenerate? As to Donnie McClurkin, I don't know what happened to him, but I was never molested by any male pedophile when I was young, and neither was any of my friends, so the argument that homosexuality is not normal but 'imposed' by male pedophiles is nothing but BS and wishful thinking by homophobes.
yes, I read the caveat, but it comes after a long diatribe against homosexuality… this is a clever "I wash my hands of his blood" kind of cup-out… the writer unleashes its prejudice against a minority and then puts a proviso, but the damage is done…
It's like being in a courtroom: the lawyer may state an opinion, the judge may strike it down as it is not evidence or statement of fact, but the damage is done, the jury heard it already and you can't unknow something that has been made known to you… the writer of this diatribe has spoken out against homosexuals but comes at the end and states that he is not passing judgement. The damage is done.
Remember, Polanski committed his crime in America and has unfinished business with the American legal system. Therefore what the world thinks is irrelevant.
Hollywood would love nothing more than to make all deviant behavior acceptable. That way they can depict it in their decadent movies and feel "progressive." I frankly don't know who attends their movies, I guess that is why our children have become hedonists, but their revenues are declining and movie producers are loosing money and they warn the wonderful stars that they will not be paid as much as they command. Nothing would be better for our moral good than a good earthquake change the coast from California to Colorado. Of course I would loose a good sister.
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