Republican is the New Punk
by Doug TenNapelJohnny Cash was punk rock. The birth of rock came when Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Roy Orbison and Cash toured small towns and set the youth on fire. Parents were outraged. The long dippity-doo hair atop gyrating men “dancing like the negroes” before frothing young girls set mainstream culture against this rebellious little movement. It was our first smell of anarchy and it scared the establishment.
Johnny Ramone
The rebellious spirit of rock is dead. No better evidenced than by its formal endorsement of President Obama. Never before has rock been so central to the inauguration of a president. Bono is an ambassador in sunglasses who still knows how to pull a string and get an audience of thousands to put their fist in the air.
But rock cannot be both establishment and anti-establishment. It can’t be a rebellious underdog while endorsing and distributing the status quo. And yes, President Obama is the status quo of unlimited spending and government expansion he supposedly opposed during the election … then again, he also said he would fight to reduce abortion but couldn’t wait three days in office before throwing the pro-life useful idiots who voted for him under the bus. No change there. If this is what he meant by “reducing abortions” I can’t we to see what he meant by “reducing taxes.”
This is the mainstreaming of the bad boy, complete with rat-pack suit and cigarette in hand. A snappy skin spread over the boring, failed, liberal Democrats of the sixties. Hope and Change was nothing more than a repackaging of policies that have no right to be associated with hope or change.
Lefty politics are no longer the fringe and no matter if the voters knew it or not they carved lefty politics into stone. Bill Ayers became the system he once fought against. Sure, they still wear the earring and say “fuck” a lot to maintain street-cred among the academics, but now rock has taken sides — it is for the establishment. Same with journalism, the university and pop-culture. The left has become a cliché. They’re not “Arrested Development” they’re “Golden Girls” with a soul patch. Snore.
Now that the art nerds and punks just became the football jocks and prom queens, a new rebel is emerging from the wilderness. They are the new anti-establishment. One minority force bands together against every other branch of government swallowed by the Democrat octopus. The last evidence of a check or balance against the popular people are now the Conservative Republicans.
The arts have failed. They no longer keep mass culture in check with thought-provoking art that challenges the establishment. Now they’re in charge of spreading the mainstream mandate of the Liberal Vatican. There isn’t an original thought among them, just a thousand-mile stare, a blue logo and the drone-like vocabulary of emotive, vaguely inspiring chants.
We’re the new rebellion against the majority juggernaut that doesn’t take kindly to dissent. Make a fist and show them what happens when they tell you what to think, feel and believe.
If you want me to unite to your cause, then end abortion, give the people back the money they earned, fight terror, keep your hands off free speech on the radio and enable job creators to make more jobs. Until then, screw your hope and screw your change.
Email this to a friend | Print |
Share on Facebook
| Tweet this
| 
Follow Us on Twitter
Subscribe via RSS
Tips & Feedback
205 Comments
Bravo!
“Make a fist and show them what happens when they tell you what to think, feel and believe.”
You encouraging violence against those you don’t believe in? Can I punch a Christian if he tries to get me to change what I believe in?
Dangerous words Mr T. Liberals never ONCE endorsed violence against the right when they were the punks.
Mainstream punk isn’t punk, it’s merely badly disguised pop. You can always tell: is it truly anti-establishment, or just anti- Republican?
O/T, sorta …
Over at threedonia.com, JS Lawalin just made a nomination for Super Bowl MVP:
Anyone who ‘trips’ over and disconnects the power cord at the Springsteen show.
OK, rock on.
DootnDoosh says “Liberals never ONCE endorsed violence against the right when they were the punks.”
You have honestly never seen Jane Fonda sitting with the North Vietnamese commies on an anti-aircraft gun? Or Michael Moore calling Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi a “freedom fighter”? Cindy Sheehan equating people that behead “infidels” to the minute men of the American Revolution? That list is endless…
Isn’t it interesting that now all of a sudden its ok for Obama to go on al-Arabiya and talk about his Muslim roots and family members but on the campaign trail that was “racism”? We have liberated Kosovo and Bosnian muslims in the balkans, Iraq and Afghanistan, and have tried to get the “palestinians” to take yes for an answer to have a state instead of being terrorist. George W. Bush about a week after 9/11 was at some islamic center saying that “these people have hijacked a great religion”
Its Obama that is going back to the old ways of the past praising of dictators while struggling to support democracy in Iraq, or any sort of bold freedom agenda that is more thought out than Bush’s.
WHAT A FRAUD THE ERA OF OBAMA IS SO FAR!
or if ANY doorman lets you in with your bedwetter Glen Beck hairdo.
I never met a doorman who wouldn’t let any patron into the “club,” underground (illegal, fire trap rave) or otherwise, in exchange for a nice “stipend” (twenty bucks, a rock, a bindle-full, promise of ‘romance’).
Are you kiddin’? A hairdo?
Huh?Duh.The late, great Johnny Ramone, whose guitar style defines punk rock, talks a little about his own conservative politics here:
http://www.scrammagazine.com/johnnyramone
Best Punk Song of 2008- Citizen-Soldier by 3 Doors Down.
Best lyric in the song- “The strongest among you may not wear a crown.”
The original political punk rejected the brutality of nature and raised up humanity’s inherent and equal worth; liberty and equality replaced rule by the strong, rich, or deceitful.
How many people even know what either a citizen or a soldier is anymore?
Anyway, it’s a good song.
There is one gigantic problem with running on a platform of rebellion: once your Establishment enemy is destroyed, something has to replace it. It is not enough to oppose the Establishment; one has to propose a new one in its place.
My comment applies equally to artists of any political persuasion.
Well done, Doug. Very well done, contrary to the opinion of “Huh?” who is such a weasel he chose to be anonymous. Typical of the left-wing loonies – not enough conviction to stand up for anything. He couldn’t even get Glenn Beck’s name spelled correctly, or was that just another way to spit on the right?
No matter.
Thanks Doug.
The late, great Johnny Ramone.
Just seeing that badass picture perks up my day. A true iconoclast in the music world — a true iconoclast politically in the music world.
True original.
Huh? New Thinking. Newthink. Mmmmmm, where have I heard this before, and if I can’t buy it can I at least rent some? It sounds soothing and righteous.
So, wait. Whichever party is out of power is automatically punk? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard.
HUH?- I’m a huge fan bands like Korpiklanni and Eluveitie. I’m also a big fan of this site, and George W Bush. I think you need to go back to Blabbermouth wherever your silly posts fit in.
I mean, your argument goes
punk = anti-establishment
Obama = establishment
GOP = anti-Obama
Therefore GOP = punk
That’s incredibly silly. Did that make Walter Mondale punk?
Hint: Walter Mondale was not punk
Doug,
If I may be so dated…..RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I find it terribly amusing when you guys look to the RIGGED party system to look for someone to fight against the establishment. The Establishment controls both parties to give you the illusion you have a choice.
Read “The Creature from Jekyll Island.” You won’t believe how much you haven’t been told.
I’ve known this for years Doug. Now it’s official hopefully. If you disagree with the Left Establishment types you are the 3 E’s: Evil, the Enemy and(of course)an Extremist. It’s all so predictable that only idiots, the pathological and people with very low esteem take the endless stream of pablum seriously.
The extent that a work of art seeks to further a polital agenda, is the extent that it is dimished as a work of art. Political art is no art at all, but rather politics in rock and roll drag.
JWM
Yikes. Typos! Or maybe evil spirits stole my letters- yeah, that’s it.
Out evl sprits!
JWM
Well, the key point of his argument is that Republicans are “anti-establishment” which, what?
“Golden Girls with a soul patch”
what does that even mean?
Like, the show itself with a soul patch?
Or Betty White with a soul patch?
What?
Where am I?
Count me out of this silliness. Do not fall into the trap of being so enamored by the process of revolution, of destroying the Establishment, that you care nothing for the consequences.
Like I said before, another Establishment must necessarily replace it. Therefore, I reject this whole “anti-establishment” nonsense.
For the silly Liberals here, Doug was not making the point that establishment equals whoever is in power (be it 2 years, 4 years, or longer). However, the unimaginably cultish behavior of the musicians and other artists (including composing praise songs to Obama and making videos swearing allegiance) is far beyond anything I’ve seen in my lifetime. The very people who claim to be free of pop-culture peer pressure have become a caricature of themselves. It’s something most of us have seen for years….how they all have their “uniforms” that supposedly show their independence from the mainstream, but whenever challenged, they show just how thin their allegiance to rebellion really is.
That Bruce Springsteen and Bono are jokes is not anything new to most of us. That others are beginning to see it as well (and will rebel in a new direction), that’s going to be truly interesting and will start a different chapter in rock (although I don’t exactly expect Conservatism to be the direction taken to be cool).
Johnny Ramone was more than a conservative; he was a Republican.
OH MY, You left out the most punked out quasi-conservative rocker of all time – MY MAN FRANK ZAPPA! He ain’t the beard and mustache, zircon-encrusted, wild poster boy most people think. No drugs, small government, screw censorship. Married once, three nice kids.
AND WAY AHEAD OF HIS TIME. Y’all still ain’t caught up to him yet been dead 15 years.
Huh? takes his name from the response he gives when someone asks him what he does for a living. Or is it what he hears when he asks a girl out? or maybe it’s what he hears from the prostitutes when he shows them his goods? As for Blucas! he just appears to be confused. It must be that things with his Obamessiah aren’t going the way he thought they were.
as a single mother of three children who are in their ‘tweens’ this story brings tears to my heart i ofen tell my oldest son dean to throw out the rap! and let in the nuge! only buy american and no liveral arts in my house or he can find another place to live. my 15 year old daughtr waw into the beatles but i asked her to listen to ted nugent a few times because he’s both a christian and a conservative rock n roller and i had to threatend hr with moving the heck out and finding her own way but now she loves nugent and weve writen letters to him and sent him pictures
blucas!,
Yes, conservatives ARE anti-establishment, since the media, academia, and now the government (i.e. the three branches of The Establishment) are dominated by liberal folks. ipso facto – anti-liberal = anti-establishment.
Pretty simple.
And Doug. As someone who spent over a decade working in academia, your article is spot on.
Just PLEASE never use “Golden Girls” and “patch” in the same sentence ever again.
Alice Cooper? Staunch Christian Conservative.
Also a heck of a golfer. That’s what we get these days, people who can’t do better than copying someone’s act from 20 years earlier (except without the talent). That’s what passes for rebellion in today’s rock ‘n roll era.
Reasonsjester,
Scholar of Soviet history and a conservative with a satirical streak.
If I were you, I’d never turn my back to any of the other faculty in the dept.
…in spite of that rumor going around this thread that liberals are never violent.
Wow RJ, I had no idea you had those kinds of musical chops. I’ll agree with pretty much everything you cited. Especially Foo Fighters, who epitomize a band not really caring about trends or pop culture (and succeeding in affecting it because of their attitudes).
Old Metallica is spectacular (before they all got matching haircuts and outfits). Master Of Puppets is the mother of all songs about personal responsibility and consequences. I doubt they’re overly Conservative, but the message is anything but Liberal.
Des,
..and most importantly, Alice Cooper didn’t take himself seriously. He knew he was an entertainer, and never claimed to be a witch, or from another world, or in Satan’s fave 5. M. Manson, on the other hand, takes himself WAY too seriously, and comes across as the attention starved little teenager — moping around, committing very choreographed acts of rebellion, and claiming that “nobody understands me” and “life sucks, everything sucks.”
Liberals are sissies. Conservatives are armed forces, star athletes, heroes – risk takers who will stake their lives and refuse to cry victim. If conservatives ever shed their civility and started acting up like liberals, woe be to them. Conservatives are stronger, braver and have guns. Liberals would hide in a cave and piss themselves.
I like your thoughts. As long as the artist earns $$ on the free market, it’s art. When taxpayers have to support it, it’s not. In Obama’s world, taxpayers have to support more and more. Are you taxed enough yet?
Somebody tell my about Johnny Ramone…I remember he was popular but I don’t know what he stood for…Thanks!
abe lincoln = grand old punk
Um, wasn’t that Johnny playing guitar on rock’s most blantant anti-Reagan song, “Bonzo Goes to Bitburg”? (I know, it was Joey’s song — he was as left as Johnny was right.)
I’m not sure what to make of this essay. Stan makes a good point — rock and the “counter culture” haven’t been “anti-establishment” for decades — they are the establishment — and a pretty reactionary establishment at that. In the late ’70s, at the dawn of punk, the big labels and radio stations that played the Eagles (ugh)reacted to the Ramones and the Pistols the same way the ’50s “establishment” reacted to E and Chuck Berry. (By the way, how could you possibly write that lede about rock’n'roll pioneers and leave out the one man who laid down the blueprint for everything that has followed in the past 50+ years?)
Yeah, it’s pretty amazing to see so many of these supposed cultural “rebels” going all-in for a politician, but this is nothing new — Francis Albert recorded a campaign song for JFK and Jolson did one for Warren Harding.
I don’t mind “political” music, even if I don’t agree with the politics in question (hell, one of my very favorite bands, the Clash, was slightly to the left of the Khmer Rouge), I don’t even mind if an artist or a band plays at a fundraiser or an inaugural event — but this current trend does smack a bit of “let us all sing the praises of the Dear Leader”!
Oh, and one more thing (as a famous dectective lieutenant used to say), and it has nothing to do with politics — on my list of Irish rock’n'roll bands, you will find the name Thin Lizzy several pages ahead of U2.
The #1 rule of Punk Rock: if you have to say your punk your not.
Republicans = Fail
No real punks would align themselves with either party FYI.
from Reason Jester…..
“This was a great article that makes a very good point: Left-wingers are a bunch of sell-outs.”
Speaking of which, I LMAO over the incident with Sprinsteen and Walmart. He said his crew didn’t check it out good enough or some non-sense.
Mistake indeed… he just sold out to WallyWorld for the bucks and got caught by his “will work for food” (translation: don’t want to work)looney leftest base! What a nitwit!!
Did the Right collectively take their delusion pills this morning?
The Future of “Punk” Rock: Douchebags in Suits cutting off funding to the arts and censoring and dividing and talking about “evil” this and promoting “Wars” on that. Boring.
You can’t claim to be anti-establishment just because you currently aren’t at the helm, your still there.
Punk is the struggle to be free from oppression. What does Obama offer us but an ever-expanding swarm of regulators and tax collectors to suck all the joy and freedom out of our lives. Every piece of “change” and “hope” coming our way arrives with force of law and at the point of a gun or a jackboot on the neck because left to our own devices we would never comply with his directives.
[...] stare, a blue logo and the drone-like vocabulary of emotive, vaguely inspiring chants. – Big Hollywood [...]
I love you.
Thanks for the link Joe Lima, Johnny was awesome.
————————————————-
Ya gotta laugh at all of these young folks thinking they are “edgy” and “anti-establishment” when you talk to them and they don’t even realize that they are just parroting what they were told by their teachers or by T.V. executives.
I got a kick out of it a couple of years ago when I heard that MTV, which features so many “artists” and shows that are anti-corporation and big business, has more commercials per hour than any other cable network. The Viacom (or whoever owns MTV now) executives are using anti-capitalism messages to make tons of money off of these brain dead kids. Ya gotta respect that.
Great article, Doug. I’m officially signing on with the Anti-Establishment.
See you in church tomorrow…
Hey Dootndooshbag you must have gone through our historically inadequate public school system or you just have CRS ( Can’t Remember Stuff ). “Liberals didn’t commit violent acts” – give me a hippy break – think 60’s and 70’s radicals for $500 – the Black Panthers, the Symbionese Liberation Army, Bill Ayers – oh! and what was his name in Helter Skelter – oh ya Charles Manson – Dooty you need to check your countrys’ history ……. IF YOU HAVE THE COURAGE
Um, wasn’t that Johnny playing guitar on rock’s most blantant anti-Reagan song, “Bonzo Goes to Bitburg”? (I know, it was Joey’s song — he was as left as Johnny was right.)
I’m not sure what to make of this essay. Stan makes a good point — rock and the “counter culture” haven’t been “anti-establishment” for decades — they are the establishment — and a pretty reactionary establishment at that. In the late ’70s, at the dawn of punk, the big labels and radio stations that played the Eagles (ugh)reacted to the Ramones and the Pistols the same way the ’50s “establishment” reacted to E and Chuck Berry. (By the way, how could you possibly write that lede about rock’n’roll pioneers and leave out the one man who laid down the blueprint for everything that has followed in the past 50+ years?)
Yeah, it’s pretty amazing to see so many of these supposed cultural “rebels” going all-in for a politician, but this is nothing new — Francis Albert recorded a campaign song for JFK and Jolson did one for Warren Harding.
I don’t mind “political” music, even if I don’t agree with the politics in question (hell, one of my very favorite bands, the Clash, was slightly to the left of the Khmer Rouge), I don’t even mind if an artist or a band plays at a fundraiser or an inaugural event — but this current trend does smack a bit of “let us all sing the praises of the Dear Leader”!
Oh, and one more thing (as a famous dectective lieutenant used to say), and it has nothing to do with politics — on my list of Irish rock’n’roll bands, you will find the name Thin Lizzy several pages ahead of U2.
Bilefull you write well but inaccurately – you come off as quite intelligent so you’ll understand very well when I say to your “abstinence-only” statement is just more of the same kool-aid craziness you libs are so known for – you know dam well conservatives support and promote adoption centers and homes, birth control in its’ various forms and sex education that centers on marriage and monogamy – unfortunately your liberal ethos (or is it pathos) doesn’t allow you to recognize anything other than STD producing abhorant behaviour that’s celebrated to the detrimant of our society. No, I’;m not some bible thumper – I’m a 54 year old dad who’s seen it or experienced it all and I’m raising my 3 teenagers.
[...] Original post: Republican is the New Punk [...]
Thanx for that post, Mr Blifil. Now there’s absolutely no doubt that you haven’t got a clue who Johnnny OR The Ramones were. Those of us who knew da bruddas from day one know you’re full of crap.
“End abortion, give the people back the money they earned, fight terror, [keep] free speech on the radio and enable job creators to make more jobs.” Bravo. A very good summary of a just society.
All politicians are scum and the Republicans deserved to lose for allowing banks to leverage 30:1, CDOs, Credit Default Swaps, and other esoteric derivatives to run amok… this does NOT mean the current administration deserves anyone’s support. One gang of thieves and frauds replaced with another. Yes We Can.
This article isn’t as out-there as I originally thought… it brought to mind Paul Morrissey, who I wouldnt call a republican exactly (Warhol’s director and Lou Reed/Velvet Underground promoter), but he is definitely a huge Reactionary. I doubt he has much good to say about Bush, but you can bet he’s laughing at the braindead Kool Aid Drinkers who believe Obama is going to save the world.
Reasons, thanks for the suggestion and backdoor compliment – quite frankly I think Ann Coulter is the most succinct, hottest, erudite, take-no-prisoners, give-no-quarter, take-no-bull**** female commentator out there – I haven’t read any of her books; neither have I read any of the serious conservative authors books; I make it a point to listen, as much as I can, to a wide variety of broadcasts as I can. That and the web keeps me pretty well informed. I read for recreation and fiction is where it’s at for me.
Re: double post — forgiveness please!
From Mark Steyn at “The Corner,” what should be the final word on this article:
“As for ‘Republican being the new punk,’ only in the sense that McCain-Palin wound up like Sid and Nancy in the Hotel Chelsea.”
[...] http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/dtennapel/2009/01/31/republican-is-the-new-punk/ [...]
An L.A. Punk legend (and no not from O.C.) I know recently said the EXACT same thing as Doug. For those of you who think you’re punk, alternative or counterculture, yet are part of the Obama nation, you’re done…you’ve lost all credibility. Do you really think Shepherd Fairey’s iconic portrait of Obama is a spoof of totalitarian art? I wouldn’t be so quick to make that bet. Now I’m not conspiratorial (truly I’m not) but wouldn’t the most obvious ploy be for those in power to consolidate behind an unassailable an benevolent leader…isn’t it the most convenient and oldest trick in the book. Does it ever dawn on you that hate Bush so much that having the government amass this kind of power makes the next Bush that’s elected much more powerful. (And don’t get me wrong, I like me some Bush)
The conservative philosophy (and eff off if you think it’s race baiting and war mongering…check your history those are historically Democrats traits) is that the individual knows what’s best for him or herself and that a government big enough to help us when we’re down is only a bigger weapon when someone with bad intentions holds the keys. The individual cannot flower when the majority holds the sickle of the state apparatus. Democrats and liberals are good American folks too…why have you lost your way?
As King Buzzo of the Melvins said when asked about Bush (paraphrasing) “You think (Bush) is a dictator, you haven’t seen nothing yet.”
Well put , Doug.
I couldn’t agree more.
I just had 2 comments removed after review – completely a mystery to me since i attacked no one in them and they were complimnetary and thankful in nature – what the heck did i do – no explanation offered either
Ya know,what was ” The Boss” thinking? He signs a deal with WalMart and doesn’t think there’ll be blowback from the left?
He’s not a great singer but I didn’t think he was tone deaf.
Yup, I just figured it out – I used asterisks after the word bull – the censors here need to unpucker a little i think and look at the context of what’s posted -my hope is that the intelligence level here is high enough to accomplish that – to interpolate to the level that distinguishes between the words “crap” and the other word that’;s certainly more profain makes one think that there’s another agenda here and that would be TERRIBLY disappointing
Thanks blowhole for trying to educate us about the Ramones.
I didn’t know they weren’t brothers.
Idiot. No wonder you you want to remain anonymous.
You’re a disgrace to your team.
You’re the Andruw Jones of the liberals
Reasons, thanks for the backdoor compliment re: Ann Coulter – I think she’s the most erudite, take-no-prisoners, take-no-crap, tell-it-like-it-is, hottest,accurate commentator there is. Don’t have any of her books or other authors that write in that style – i listen to broadcasts a lot and cruise the net. Typically I read for work or recreation only. The recreation reading is all about fiction intrigue,suspense,action,mystery and usually conservative authors. OK so much for my bio …..
Mr Blifil,
John dated my sister at one point. I worked part time at manny’s back in the mid 70s when they first got together. My cousin played in Shrapnel and my Dad’s best friend’s son played in Manster, so I saw a lot of early shows in NY before moving to PA. I know that there was bad blood between Jeff (Joey) and John until the end, but ask anyone who knows them and they’ll tell you that Jeff and Linda’s relationship had been on the outs for some time (if it was ever that strong to begin with) before she and John got together. My point was that you give DeeDee waaaaay too much credit for being the creative nucleus of the band, and nobody’s making any of them out to be the stalwart conservatives you mentioned, but they weren’t exactly the Leftist heroes you make them out to be, either. In fact, DeeDee was suprisingly ignorant of politics and world events in general (as well as just about everything else of any real import), especially at that time. John was the most informed of all of them. Ask Danny Fields.
By the way, you make the (common) mistake of taking Bob Christgau’s word as gospel. The Bus Boys recorded a song about the KKK in 1980, about a year before the Ramones did, but it was right about the time the Ramones started playing “The KKK took my baby away” during their live set. Come to think of it, why in the hell would you give a commercialized buttboy like Christgau any credibility whatsoever? Over the recent years the guy’s been not much more than a blowhard hack reciting press releases.
You don’t know jack.
Flamen, did you just call blowhole Emo?!!
I love you
Okay, Blifil…as far as myself I said conservative small government philosophy not Republican or Democrat.
Both parties share plenty of what you list…
Malfeasance…there’s only one malfeasance we’re currently dealing with is the financial crisis…Bush deserves blame, but he was following a liberal policy of providing home loans for those who couldn’t afford them. Nobody escapes that mess, and because the GOP was in the White House it lost it. Every Republican or Conservative I know would applaud that bit of justice if it weren’t for the fact that those now taking power share the same philosophy that got us in this mess. It is this kind of nexus of social justice and government that is the trade of every corrupt system.
Profiteering – Clinton made Dick Cheney’s company rich and signed the no-bid contract that Halliburton operated under during the Iraq war so that’s a draw. Not to mention oil for food. Much of the profiteering came to light because of the Bush administration’s audits then was used against them in the press.
Drowned (drownded???) cities – I know a relief coordinator who dealt with all entities during Katrina, it was not Blanco or Bush it was Nagin that held things up. No partisan edge there. Don’t take the fact that Bush didn’t land (and in his own words divert important resources to his visit) and use that to mean anything. Would you have liked Bush to break every law known to man and send the army into New Orleans without permission. Maybe he should have…but really?
Torture – It’s good that you don’t want our military to torture…but waterboarding vs. the torture that EVERY COUNTY ON EARTH except for Canada practices. Plus no liberal can use torture as a serious claim when they hold up Castro, Chavez and Che as pillars of justice.
Illegal wiretapping – This was always being watched and adjudicated by the courts. The only things that Bush did that were troubling to civil libertarians were signed off on by judges and members of both parties. And healthily members of both parties questioned it. How is this evidence that big government is good?
And tens of thousands dead for a lie? Whose Clinton’s, Al Gore’s…the Democrats that begged Bush to intervene in Iraq? No there was no way that Saddam could have chemical weapons that are easily reconstituted from basic chemicals. And in what name did Saddam’s victims die? We can debate this ad nauseum but it’s once again this reflexive modern liberals’ defense of dictators that sickens me.
BTW – Almost everyone in power now signed off on everything you railed against in your post. Yeah, Joe Biden, you couldn’t tell his opinions from Ben and Jerry for the last eight years…yeah right!
Am I afraid of the tire gauge police? Hell yeah. It’s just as odious as being wiretapped for no reason. Just ask folks in England. THERE LITERALLY ARE TIRE GAUGE POLICE!
But my point was non-partisan…it was ideological…you can disagree with Bush’s policies, that’s great, and many of us who appreciated him were p—-d at many things he did. in fact that’s my point. We can love our President but he should never be put forth as a messiah or an agent of change or king or the reason our life is going to suddenly get better. My point was that liberals used to be interesting. Their motto used to be “question authority”, their motto now is “Find out who doesn’t think just like us and stop them.”
Obviously the side that wants a smaller government is the more counterculture.
Keep the faith, baby!
Bilfy said…..I have yet to hear of a Republican initiative to widen access to contraception and/or increase education and awareness among the demographics most vulnerable to the occurrence of unwanted pregnancy. “Abstinence-only” programs have the distinction of leading to the highest rates of unwanted pregnancy in the nation in the areas where they are the only option allowed to be discussed or taught.
See, this is how you can tell someone spends most of his time talking to people who merely nod their head in agreement when you make stupid platitudes. Really Bilfy? The highest rates of unwanted pregnancies occur where there is abstinence only education? I’d laugh if it wasn’t so utterly pathetic. Go back to your insults, you really suck at fact-checking.
Hint: Walter Mondale was not punk
You’re right…he was disco.
Republican is the new punk. Heh. Okay, Doug. Tell you what. Let’s meet at the next RNC meeting. Or better yet? The next Republican convention. And you can point out all the punks.
I love the guy who tells you how un-hip you are and then goes on to educate us all on how ElectroClash and D+B “rule” these days. Does he thinks it’s 2001? Maybe he just awoke from a coma?
I want to say HELL YEAH!!!! i really do, but with the right’s boring ass leadership, i really can’t. we need some new, young blood, badly.
Their motto used to be “question authority”, their motto now is “Find out who doesn’t think just like us and stop them.”
Wow is that nicely said. Bernard Goldberg was on Medved’s radio show Friday, and a Liberal caller said his ideas were so far out that he, “Shouldn’t be allowed on the radio.” When Laura Ingram sat in for Bill O’Reilly, she had one of the goofy kids who protested Alberto Gonzalez at a college speech. The girl (who couldn’t be bothered not to dress like one of the Bratz dolls) flippantly said that Gonzalez didn’t have the “right” to speak at the college because of his behavior in the Bush administration. If you look at colleges all over America, you see Conservative speakers get shouted down, or have their invitations rescinded because some Liberal group doesn’t think they should be heard.
There may not be any “Punks” in the crowd at the Republican Convention, but the gutless way Liberals have behaved over the last couple of decades has far less in common with the essence of real Punk music, no matter who you’re listening to.
Mr. Blifil I thank you for coming here and am glad you’re a fellow American. But I bet you’ll someday become a conservative. I became one when I realized it was LESS racist than liberalism, more free speech than liberalism and provided safeguards from those practicing control in the guise of utopia. Read this site, take what you want. You can be a libertarian or a member of the religious right…that’ll encompass every belief your intellect can take you to. To be liberal you must hate America, hate industry and subscribe to 10 or so core beliefs. I’ve got a secret…you can’t hate America for the way it treats the world. We are the world…we’re people who came here from every corner legally to escape tyranny and make a living for their family. To invent the inventions and build the industries their countries suppressed out of fear that the people would control the means of production. Businesses are a collection of entrepreneurs and stock holders and pension funds. Not the domain of socialists’ caricature of villains. You’ll learn that.
The posters are right that the Republicans aren’t exactly punk rockers. But Doug is right in saying that that spirit now resides with us. And I have met Republican punk rockers, and gay people and homeless activists despite the lefts’ self preserving smears. And amen to poster Carter for saying that we need exciting leadership. Let’s hope Steele is a good start but it’s up to all of us.
Doot……..you are delusional. Liberals never engaged in or condoned violent behavior……Have you been under a rock the past 20 years ?
No one among Progressives seems too concerned with the huge bait & switch. Would we have had hordes of stupid young white “idealists” running around harrassing everyone to vote for Obama last fall, if they knew “change” meant Clinton retreads and assorted Democratic machine hacks? Ha, change we can believe in indeed. Professional job holders.
Republicans definitely deserved to lose. When the economy is booming, the president usually gets all the credit, if it’s tanking he gets all the blame, so it’s sort of an even trade-off, since he probably has little to do with either (see Bill Clinton)
The Human Race seems doomed to advance in the lowest possible gear.
I believe Marilyn Manson publicly supported Bush, in the beginning anyway… something to do with his Tipper Gore experience.
David Mamet and the Twin Peaks guy (avant garde director, cant think of his name…) are both rather conservative.
To the extent Republican meant leaving everyone alone as much as possible, it makes sense. But that’s not what Republican means any more. The best govt on earth is always the least intrusive. I’m not sure that option exists anywhere now.
Can I still get in on a CDS that guarantees a return if TARP fails? I’d like to bet against it.
I’ve been wondering for some time why people who wear Birkenstocks(or the equivalent), clothing that looks like burlap sacks, have unwashed hair, and a religous zeal for forcing conformity to their ideology are considered cool. I guess it may be because they consider it their, and everyone’s, duty to have sex with anyone they have eye contact with and access to any and all mind altering substances.
That isn’t cool. They’ve managed to turn sex–which mostly used to be referred to as making love–into a soulless, mechanical, itch-scratching act and all those lovely drugs cause far more problems than solutions.
Lefties aren’t cool at all and never have been. In reality they are bossy, controlling, humorless freaks of society.
Did you see the cover of Mechanical Animals? lol… there’s just something incredibly funny about a guy in a skin-suit with breasts, supporting Bush. Lunchbox is a nice tune. Nobodies. There are worse bands than Marilyn Manson. Great? No. Entertaining? Definitely.
Anyway, Bush DID make sense at the time. Personally I thought we should kill every muslim male over the age of 12, disperse the women and children across the planet. So ends jihad. However, that would be politically non-feasible for either side, few common sense solutions are. We have an overcrowded planet, we can certainly afford to lose a billion people (and more!). The only downside I can see: all the boo-hoo-ery which would follow becoming unendurable. Generally I like war. I’m glad Obama is sending 30,000 troops to Afghanistan if for no other reason it’s an affront to the peaceniks who supported him. It’s the one thing he’s doing that I really approve of. Marines are bored with Iraq anyway, it’s not the adventure they were promised. At least not now.
Oh dear, another one of these things.
I would ask the author to define conservatism as a political philosophy. After he’s thought it over see if he can still link a romantic movement worshiping Whitman’s barbaric yawp to anything like conservative politics. Conservatism at its heart validates and even celebrates the limitations of us mere humans–mortal and unable to mend cosmic injustices for ourselves, much less an entire nation, much much less the whole world. It’s the movement of letting the people sit down, shut up, and do their jobs without troubling them with any messianic enthusiasm. How inspirational is that? You gonna write songs about that sort of thing?
So Obama is the rock n’ roll Pan figure described so well in “Triumph of Vulgarity”. The fact he was elected to the highest office in the US on a wave of romantic enthusiasm does not suddenly turn Bob Dole, Lynn Cheney, and the ghost of Ronald Reagan into punk rockers.
+10!
Everyone go back and listen to “California Uber Alles”, and tell me that Jello didn’t see this coming a mile away. Whoda thunk that Jello would be a conservative (ok, libertarian) back in 1980?
Remember: “The alternative to the spectacle is the spectacle of the alternative”
http://www.ace.mu
http://www.ace.mu.nu/
Sorry wrong link.
Dootndoosh: Never endorsed violence? How about all those ‘liberals’ who stated with incredible arrogance that Sarah Palin should’ve have aborted her youngest son? How about all those riots whenever the G8 meets? How about the Left’s behavior at the RNC Convention?
As for punching Christians, go right ahead, we will only pray harder for your salvation.
Meghan McCain called likened Republicanism to being a punk. She was widlely criticized and mocked by the very people who voted for the conformity our new marxist president promises. Yeah, baby! Nothing says PUNK like being a ward of the state!
Back in the late 80s/early 90s, when liberal NYC was awash in crime like you can’t even picture these days… I remember my friends being appalled that I was watching Newt’s class on Mind Extension University on cable. They wanted to shut that down fast. Why? This was during a time when I was trying to make sense of people and their so-called beliefs. I no longer expect people to make sense. In any case, it was my first first-hand experience with Progressive Liberals and their hostility to ANY idea that has not been approved from party leadership. They have not changed one iota.
I had to laugh when three electricians came to my house the other day; Two had more metal in their faces than the guy in the Iron Mask. Bleach-tipped hair, ….I asked “So, how’s business these days?” “not good, but it’ll pick up” I said “with OBAMA? Mr. Gloom and Doom, who’d hire anybody or buy anything?” They stood there, stunned, and said “You don’t like Obama?” I said “NOPE!” Turns out THEY didn’t, either…all 3, TOTAL conservatives. ONE said “I’m from Kitchner, Canada…and I moved here to ESCAPE Socialism…and now, with Obama, I’m back in it again!” ya, I know how he feels.
‘Oh Navel,Navel’…GREAT COMMENT.
Thank you Doug! Your statement is perfect. As a longtime lover of rock n roll, (a really lonnnnnng time, I’m old) I have watched it change from something that set trends- presents ideas and the middle finger to the status quo- into red carpet dandies showing off the latest designer clothing like hangers with eyeballs. Although there are a couple bands out there who are the real thing, you can tell they keep there heads down so as not to get them cut off. They are a sad bunch indeed. The beginning of the end came with the appearance of the “art school rocker” replacing the working class guy who picks up a guitar and has something to say. Worse yet the guy impersonating the working class guy! The rest have just followed like the lemmings they are. I do have hope in some of the young ones out there. Time will tell if the machine eats them or they eat the machine.
wow, I knew libertarians had “liberal” in them, but this article with inaccurate generalizations. this article not only doesn’t have the facts to back up it’s arguments (about obama, or rock music), but it also shows a lack of knowledge about art’s intention. *sigh* but it is kind of interesting to think about.
Underling,
Great posts. We’re on the same page.
Doug TenNapel is a graphic novelist, video game designer and writer. His
video game creation EARTHWORM JIM enjoys unmerited respect in the world of gaming.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unmerited
Adj. 1. unmerited – not merited or deserved; “received an unmerited honorary degree
epic fail from the bio to this drivel
[...] So suggests this piece. [...]
The worst thing that ever happened to rock and roll was when it decided it needed to ally itself with “progressive” politics.
Rock and politics is not the issue here — it’s rock and government. We’re about to see a reprise of the “liberal fascism” the country experienced when all those Hollywood stars were appearing in NRA (not the good one — FDR’s National Recovery Administration)propaganda shorts.
On the other hand, I did approve of Nixon making E an honorary DEA agent so he could keep an eye on some those show biz types who were taking drugs (unfortunately, nobody was keeping an eye on E).
The entire premise this article is based on is paper-thin nonsense. “Conservatives want smaller government” is bad comedy. After 8 years of W. in the White House and 6 years during which Repubs held all the levers of power, both the size of government and the deficit were at their highest levels in history. There’s no shifting the blame on Dems either, because this was the state of things in -2006-.
Republicans want less government in our lives. Except when it comes to abortion. Or school censorship. Or the freedom to assemble and protest. Or the freedom to choose who we will call our spouse. Or when a duly-elected state assembly votes to set its own environmental policy. Or when terminally ill cancer patients want access to medical marijuana after every other pain medication has ceased to help. And on, and on, and on. Republicans only want smaller government when it suits them, and where the larger society conflicts with their values they’re just fine with using the state.
A Republican Congress and a Republican president have also given us one of the most threatening pieces of legislation in American history, one which shreds the spirit of civil democracy. It’s the Military Commissions Act of 2006, and it explicitly states that anyone:
“before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense.”
A “competent tribunal” is left for the President to define. From now on, you are an “enemy combatant” if the President says you are, and there’s contradictory language within the bill itself regarding whether this applies to only foreign nationals or citizens as well. At the very least, this oversight demonstrates incompetence and lack of simple consideration for where such a dangerous bill might lead down the years ahead.
End abortion. Sure. Conservatives love the unborn, right up to the moment they’re born. A sea of unwanted, unloved children. Great idea. You’d need more schools, more roads, more prisons, etc. How is that “small government”?
I guess letting the top 4% of rich Americans double their income is pretty punk.
There’s NOTHING cool about being a republican. But why even argue the point? Both parties are instruments of plunder.
Every one in the white house have a foll time job and making a lot of money and have the best oj insurance. Now get off your butts and do your job. This problem have been comming for over forty years. Some of you people need to step down and let people in that want to work with every one to get this mess cleaned up. Evey one with more than three trems in the white need to go and live in low housing with out protection. and yaou will see what the real world is like.
What could be more punk then forcing women to deliver babies at gunpoint? (That’s what banning abortion amounts to.)
Doug, I really can’t tell if you’re being serious. If you are, then I really can’t see why you’re buying into the binary Us/Them, Republican/Democrat equation perpetrated by THE ESTABLISHMENT. Punk created its OWN CATEGORY beyond any existing definitions.
But buying into the conservative GOP crud is just as pathetic as the Teddy Boys in pre-punk England who “rebelled” against the social & artistic establishment of their time by trying to relive the glory of 1950s rockabilly. If you’re sick of the system… make your own thing.
How to know when your belief system clashes with the expected norm:
Getting your car keyed THE VERY DAY you put a political bumper sticker on it.
Having a neighbor suggest the yard sign you have for your candidate could incite people to vandalize the sign, your yard or your house.
You object strongly to the political agenda your childs public school is pushing, but don’t want the child to suffer the stigma of NOT BEING LIKE THE OTHER KIDS.
When your husband mentions how he paid for college, people his age take a step back from him.
Just so you understand, my bumper sticker was for McCain. My yard sign was for McCain. The agenda was the “YES WE CAN” recycled soviet BS that was plastered in the hallways of my childs PUBLIC school. My husband was in ROTC in the 60’s and served three tours in Vietnam after graduation. The people in question are typically white PhD’s who spent the war in graduate school. I like to think they feel guilt. I’m pretty sure they don’t.
So if being punk is being an outsider whose life choices are scorned and rejected by mainstream culture, count us in. I’ll put make a few rips in my “Che is Dead. Get over it” tee to amp up my cred.
There are several things Obama’s doing that I really like. Particularly vis-a-via the military, he’s completely hosing the homos and peaceniks. They’ll be conducting a “study” of DontAsk DontTell (no timetable), haha… a govt study, stamped EXPEDITE I’m sure (translation: get lost) – AND, he’s ALSO dispatching 30,000 troops to Afghanistan! There’s nothing to do in Iraq now anyway, it’s safer than most US cities now. I would say his handling was really rather deft. A new slogan to replace War on Terror, but continuing it all the same. Good. At least for those of us who like war.
Now if he could only get some of the garbage removed from TARP, he might have better luck in the senate. Anyway this Obama guy is turning out to be much better than expected. He’s sticking it to the people who elected him, which is what all politicians do. McCain would have wasted no time, he’s pretty notorious for it actually. The Kool Aid drinkers are too stupid to realize it (another plus)
“Lefty politics are no longer the fringe and no matter if the voters knew it or not they carved lefty politics into stone.”
This lefty will try to contain her horror and pain that lefty policies are no longer on the fringe–that they are now perceived as moderate by the majority of Americans. Oh, no! I’m not cool and edgy and rebellious and powerless anymore. Oh no, please no. And don’t throw me in the briar patch either. Anything but that.
I thought punks were anarchists.
President Obama said, “On this day, we come to proclaim an end to the petty grievances and false promises, the recriminations and worn out dogmas, that for far too long have strangled our politics.What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them — that the stale political arguments that have consumed us for so long no longer apply. …the time has come to set aside childish things”
No one was listening I guess.
Back when Rolling Stone was a revolutionary rock rag printed on newsprint (remember, Jann Venner, you sellout?) the paper had a fellow named Ben Fong-Torres writing for it. This most perceptive fellow said something that has always resonated, and at no time better than with this article, and this time: “todays trappings and symbols of revolution will be co-opted by commercial interests into tomorrow’s items of consumption by the masses.”
First the baby boomers were bought off; the former dropouts became yuppies, and have help OCTUPLE the national debt since the beginning of the Reagan administrations. Then, in 2000, the last attempt was made to raise a standard besides that of the all-powerful “two-party” system. The result was that Ralph Nader was escorted from a debate he was forbidden to take part in by security, even though he had bought a ticket to watch! It is no wonder that youth, despairing of a voice truly represemting themselves, might flock to a candidate that looks like he MIGHT KINDA represent them.
“We can change the world, rearrange the world,” we used to sing. But then most of us forgot about the mission. Maybe President Obama will wake us up. Or maybe he won’t, and he’s really just a stealth candidate for the Republicrat establishment. From Fong-Torres’ perspective, a symbol– a not-completely Caucasian president– co-opted by the money which, as Dylan once sang, “don’t talk– it swears!”
………the visual this conjures is terrifying. I’m seeing Springsteen in a corduroy jacket with leather elbow patches…….Bonnie Raitt in a polyester pant suit…….James Taylor with a combover.
AMEN!
I am not going to go into all of the music I have listened to in my life. I will not be so narrow as to claim that all of one type of music represents a certain political idea. If I went that far, there would be many beautiful notes I might miss because I have stereotyped someone’s art and, in the process, missed some of life’s beauty.
But, historically, art has helped to bring reality to peoples’ lives.
Forgetting such a thing could cause people to forget those who sang their art to open up the bus, stop wars and brought freedom to people who existed a long time before most of you were even a glint in your father’s eye.
I grew up at a time when an abortion was illegal and liberalism was equated with the big political “C.” (OMG! Jane Fonda dared to talk to the Communists! WOW! Now that made a big difference, didn’t it? What the real shame was that many artists were blackballed from exhibiting their art because the fear of the big “C” destroyed so many artists’ lives.)
At that time, there was no place for a 16 year old girl to go when she was stranded by the effect left after her first encounter with “love.” I ended up on a kitchen table in the house of a county hospital employee’s home. I had no one to help me. I tried to talk to my school counselor, but she said my dad was on the school board so she couldn’t help me. My minister had my dad on the Board of Elders at the church where we attended. If my dad had known, I was certain he would have beaten me worse than he ever had before. At this time in my life, all politics were in the hands of men.
“Liberals” fought to even the playing field for women. Just as they marched in the South to open up the lunch counters, marched to end war after war, marched to help refugees from US-supported Central American wars, marched to stop blood for oil.
So, stop finger-pointing and trying to be cool about the music you know. Who was the first? Who was the punkest? Who was the grungiest? Who in the hell cares?
Just ask yourself who works for freedom for both the rich and the poor? Who works for human rights? Who cares about the kids who are unable to read and write?
I rallied against Vietnam and against the invasion of Cambodia. I did guerrilla theater to oppose war. At age 17, I worked with the homeless. I brought in refugees from the US-supported wars into my home to share food and shelter alongside my children. I worked with gangs and taught gang-bangers to read and write. And you know what, it didn’t matter what music I was listening to. And it never mattered to me what music my kids listened to – it was their actions I most cared about.
So, listen to what you want and enjoy it for what it is. But, remember, it isn’t the music you listen to that changes things. It’s YOU that changes things. Listen to what you like but ACT!
Better a bleeding heart – than no heart at all.
The Most Punk Thing in a Long Time:
Inauguration 2009: Bush leaves to board helicopter for the final time. Crowd sings “Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey, goodbye”
Liberals dominate the media….this has been announced by Rush Limbaugh. And Thomas Sowell. And Ann Coulter. And Rich Lowry. Bill O’Reilly. And Robert Novak. And George Will.
And John Gibson. And Michelle Malkin. And David Brooks. And Tony Snow. And Tony Blankely. And Fred Barnes. And Britt Hume. And Larry Kudlow. And Sean Hannity. And David Horowitz. And William Kristol. And Hugh Hewitt. And William Buckley.
And Oliver North. And Joe Scarborough. And Pat Buchanan. And John McLaughlin. And Cal Thomas. And Joe Klein. And James Kilpatrick. And Tucker Carlson. And Deroy Murdock. And Michael Savage. And Charles Krauthammer. And Stephen Moore. And Alan Keyes.
And Gary Bauer. And Mort Kondracke. And Andrew Sullivan. And Nicholas von Hoffman. And Neil Cavuto. And Matt Drudge. And Mike Rosen. And Dave Kopel. And John Caldara. And Deborah Howell. And Richard Morin. And John Harris. And Gordon Liddy. And laura Ingraham.
And Larry Elder. And Tammy Bruce. And Neal Boortz. And FOX DJ ManPal. And Rusty Humphrey. And Laura Schlessinger.
pandax
“Yeah I guess we should say thanks to your generation.
Increased crime, the spread of social diseases, supporting our enemies and spitting on our troops and hugging the criminals that kill us.”
Where do you get off making that kind of statement? I committed no crimes. I did not spread social disease. I never supported an enemy. If troops are split, it is because there are soldiers who can think for themselves. And as for criminals, I believe in rehabilitation – which is seldom a product of our penal institution.
You don’t know me. I don’t sit on my ass and blame everyone else. I ACT for change. You are doing exactly the same thing as the author – hiding behind generalities, pointing fingers and then sitting back and savoring the anger and vitriol such statements produce.
Why are you so angry? Why do you have to blame and put people in stereotyped holes?
If you believe in something, then work for your cause. Pointing fingers and shouting “Blame!” really doesn’t do much when it come to:
“Increased crime, the spread of social diseases, supporting our enemies and spitting on our troops and hugging the criminals that kill us,” does it?
There are troops that can think for themselves, and WE are the ones currently fighting in Iraq, whether WE like it or not. Fighting for all that America stands for. Just as they did 40 years ago.
56, with memories marching and acting —
You’re a Narcissist! A hopeless Narcissist! The USA has paid a HUGE price for not mass-executing the hippie movement. And YES I mean you. And your ilk. You destroyed the best country on earth with your hideous faux-humanitarian blah. I hope you die screaming.
Erik
“I hope you die screaming.”
Now that is a positive and meaningful way to get our country going in a better direction…
Josh T
“WE are the ones currently fighting in Iraq”
If that is what you feel is best for this country, then you are acting. That is the only thing that brings change. And, while I don’t believe on war, I salute you for acting your conscience. It is a lot better than sitting on the sofa blaming others.
Wait–is this a comedy site??
Hey TRL…Just a question, were those punks singing na na na to Bush in the Viacom tent or at the MSNBC Corporate Free Speech area? Your version of punk is picking the Mac guy over the PC guy.
Google: “the list punk” You will see a huge list of Bay Area music.
Frankly, conservatives suck. Listen to the oppurtunist who host the right wing radio and television. They are not doing this to get the word out. They are ranting right wing propagand to make millions off of their minnions.
First, good Christians do Gods work. So you haters that call yourselves conservatives should understand that you are here to serve others. It is all about “Getting Mine” to the conservatives. “Don’t tax me and support those welfare Moms. Let them starve…” “Stop the Mexicans from coming here…” Yet they want a cheap salad, car wash, aand landscaper.
Pandax
“I do act on what I believe in like having served in the military because I believed in my country.”
I do not believe that serving in the military is the only way a person serves his/her country.
I have served my country in many ways – most of the time by helping in causes – whether it was human rights, community organizing, being on a PTA or working at a maximum security juvenile center. Unlike you, I don’t write people off because they have made mistakes. Yes, there are psychopaths who can’t be changed or rehabilitated. But I have seen what working with a 14-year-old who was abandoned by his heroin-addicted parents can do. This particular child went on to get his degree in social work and tries to help kids not to make the same mistakes he made. At present I am working with 3 siblings all of whom were given birth by a crack-addicted mom. They are incredible kids – who work, study and do the best they can with what they were given. It is an honor to work with these 3 kids.
Are you saying that people who take low-paying jobs to help people in their communities don’t serve their country? Obama was criticized because his largest area of expertise (beyond being a lawyer who specialized in Constitutional Law) was community organizing. Is that not service to one’s country?
As for Jane Fonda, she had the right, as an Anerican, to speak her voice. Did I agree with her stance? No, but I felt she had the right to say what she did. That is one of our most basic freedoms – and if that isn’t what we are ALL fighting for – to preserve the very foundations upon which our government was founded, then there is a bigger problem at large.
MG:
We’re just here speaking the truth. The simple fact of the matter is we’re tired of the government growing bigger and taking our money. Creating money that doesnt exist. It’s not the government’s place to be taking our money and distributing it to those that do not deserve it. If I want to help out those less fortunate I will… I work hard for all that I’ve got and sometimes it’s not enough, yet I still do it. I try to teach my children to be responsible and hopefully to understand the value of hard work and things in life are not free.
Don’t let them starve, but instead teach them to be independent and responsible and teach them to be accountable for their actions and give them opportunity, not a hand out. As for stopping the Mexicans from coming here… Illegally, yes. Enough is enough. Draining away more of my money paying for their medical bills. If they’re going to be here then lets make them pay taxes like the rest of us. And what the heck is wrong with wanting to be successful and doing what is necessary to be that way? That is the American dream, not entitlement as the current administration believes. (Side note: those that do it dihonestly by taking advantage of others are no better in my book than thieves themselves however…)
56, with memories marching and acting:
It is what I believe is right for this country. Whether I always agree with her direction one hundred percent or not, I am still an American… I believe in hard work and the rights as a human being to make my own decisions, and oddly enough, I believe its worthwhile to fight for the freedoms given to us by our constitution. The same freedoms that so many people in our own country take for granted daily by bad mouthing the military and bad mouthing this country…
56, with memories marching and acting:
“”Pandax
“I do act on what I believe in like having served in the military because I believed in my country.”
I do not believe that serving in the military is the only way a person serves his/her country…”"
… that is what makes our country, and most of its people great. The fact that there are those out there willing to sacrifice in order for others that have fallen on hard times or drugs and such to realize there is a life outside of their hell. Helping hands are one thing. Hand outs are another.
JREID,
“We had to live with GWB for eight years while he spied on Americans, turned us into a torturer like China, Iran and Saddam’s Iraq,”
There it is…there’s the hyperbole and the dangerous moral relativism that strips liberalism of the punk label and makes it into an aging joke. Thanks for all the libs who are posting posting (really) Doug musta hit a nerve so good job sticking it to the new “man.”
How is the middle class money redistributed to the rich? More of our money goes down rather than up. If we choose to help line the pockets of the rich its our choice. As for the bailouts, that is a sad sad thing frankly. Those are the rich that give the rest bad names, and even have turned many of my “fellow” conservatives into bleeding hearts of sorts. Sorry fact that we cant let businesses shut down and would rather prop them up with the same hand outs that most of us despise. Perhaps thats why we need the new class of modern conservatives to stand up and make an appearance… As for torture and spying on Americans…
the only thing the Patriot Act, and thats the law that “allows” your so called spying to exist, did was allow wire tapping and other means of listening in to happen without a judges consent. Besides, it was overwhelmingly passed by both Dems and Republicans. And to top it off, (the beauty of our government right here…) some of the provisions of that act were struck down by the courts, so either way, Americans were protected. Frankly if it helps to keep my children a little safer at night, I’ll gladly allow a little bit more leeway… We still have the checks in place. Now if youre talking about torture in the terms of the sorry things that happened in Abu Ghraib prison… thats been delbt with. As for Guatanamo Bay, nobody really knows what goes on there, and frankly. The moment they killed innocent people without provocation should have denied them of any rights. Rights of which extend to those in this country and to citizens of this country both here and abroad. Having extremists in my own country doesnt really thrill me though so Cuba is a great place for them. Besides, most of the ones that have been realeased so far have only rejoined their extremist buddies.
[...] There are some interesting theses in a new thought provoking post, Republican is the New Punk. [...]
ED…
Knock it off. Now I agree with your independent streak to some degree. But this nonsense that the Right thought anyone who disagreed with the President was un-American means that you weren’t paying attention or don’t have the interest in understanding the issues your post demands from others. The right never said disagreeing with the President was un-American. If that were the case every conservative from Sean Hannity to Thomas Sowell to every poster on this board would be quote un-American. We used it as a very specific term…when someone repeated a slur against the Army though no evidence presented it, when someone said that our troops were the same as Genghis Kahn…when someone said they wanted us to lose the war to show Bush a lesson. How else do you describe those things. As anti-American that’s how. And guess what, we have the right to say it…it’s part of the discourse you so desire.
Any band with a political message will be mediocre at best. Even Bono knows better than to write songs about the crap he espouses when not singing. We all loved Rock and Roll because it was about rebellion, they say. I say it’s great music, and the attitude is secondary. Rock’ Roll attitude is about being one of the “cool” kids, it’s now cooler to love Obama. But don’t worry- love is never cool for long. They be hatin’ soon, you’ll see.
PANDAX WROTE
“But people of your generation were the ones who spread the “do whatever you want if it feels good to you and no matter who you hurt or how bad you mess we’ll give you another chance.” 40 years down the road like at the culture it has spawned.”
Unfortunately, you’re pretty much spot on. Isn’t it interesting that our president has retreaded the boomer Clinton Administration to a large degree? Meet the new boss.
[...] I’ve been saying it for years now: This is the mainstreaming of the bad boy, complete with rat-pack suit and cigarette [...]
Wow. Some of the responses here to this blog are like parental responses to punk rock music. “Turn that down!”, “What is that junk?”,”Your father and I do not approve”. Some go as far as saying, “How did you get on this website?” Would you rather read the same similar minded, smoothed out Lawrence Welk type stuff that you can find anywhere? What would be the point of that?
MG, I happen to know two of those OG San Fran punks. Their band was right there on the front lines. They’re now quite conservative.
end abortion? Bush had 8 years to do it???
Give the people back the money they earned? Bush had 8 years to do it fight terror? You mean killing more innocent people? God only knows my friend
keep your hands off free speech on the radio? The junk you just wrote is free speech
Enable job creators to make more jobs? Bush had 8 years to do it
By the way Conervative Republicans isn’t music
Other than that you’re great
I particularly like the folks who have popped up on this thread to say that both political parties are the establishment, and that punk rejected both parties. You know, it’s funny, I remember the “Rock Against Reagan” shows. I remember seeing the “Rock Against Bush” CD’s(That would be GWB, tot GHWB). Somehow, there never was a “Rock Against Clinton” campaign launched by the punk community. I find that a little odd, seeing that punks are supposed to be opposed to both establishment parties.
It has been a fascinating exercise in Macchiavellian politics.
The wealthy liberal power brokers all send their kids to private schools and then reintegrate them back into their power structure where they become activists and politicians so as to maintain their hold on power and further exploit the masses who keep them fat.
Look at what just happened as a prime example. The Kennedys gave Obama the nod. They didn’t have a viable candidate in the family and their influence has been waning with the aging Ted and the various family scandals and embarrassements. They needed to stay in the game. endorsing Barack provided him liberal caucasian street cred to challenge the first black president whose political influence was encroaching on theirs. Had they given Hillary the nod, she might be president right now. She also might not. Taking the wrong side would have been a political disaster for them. They wanted to remain the big dog power brokers, never have liked those uppity Clinton Hillbillys too much and saw their opportunity to put them in their place and look like heroes in the process. It was smart. Had Clinton been elected, they would have a lock on being the new dynasty. Even if Obama had lost the primaries with Kennedy support, they were strong enough to retain their influence in a Clinton administration but the real coup for them was winning the gamble. Had they supported Clinton and Obama had won, they would have been seriously damaged politically since it would have then turned into the new black power broker vs the old white liberal establishment brawl within the Democratic party and they would have been washed up. Supporting Obama was a political strategy and power play. By doing this they gambled little and won much. Obama owes them now big time and their continuing, surrepitious/behind-the-scenes influence is assured in the new age of transparency.
……..they are consumate students of the Talleyrand model of political survival. Very impressive……but then again, they weren’t educated in the public school system.
The boomers are still running the show because they are the best educated generation. Their social engineering policies have paid ooff handsomely. The election of Obama could never have been accomplished if we had a truly economically educated, independently thinking and historically aware voting majority. Millions who have never been taught to think for themselves watched TV, then robotically moved to the polling places and did what they were told by the media.
To Unknown –
Your name is a misnomer – you are known. Your mind full of media programmed, knee-jerk responses is known. You insipid views are known. You, and the mind-numbed robots like you are a dime a dozen – and well known.
Contrary to what you idiotically espouse conservative ideals are not personified in George W. Bush. His failures, though not as numerous as you espouse, are not the failures of conservatism, but the lack of it.
The next time you try to respond to an idea, try to respond to it with a counter-argument, not by railing against GWB.
“When I was growing up with punk in the early 80s, it only came in two flavors: anarchist, and left-wing.”
Gee, WWINFREY, that sounds suspiciously like “we’ve got both kinds of music, country and western”…
I also grew up in the early 80’s hardcore scene, and I’d like to point out that it wasn’t just anarchists, lefties, and nazi skinheads. There were plenty of folks, like me, who held all of the politico preaching punks (regardless of their ideology) in complete and utter contempt. We wanted to go to a decent rock show, and we weren’t taken in by the rehashed 60’s folklore espoused by Biafra, MDC and their ilk (nor did we all board the train to skinhead town). Historical revisionism, thy name is wwinfrey….
For a few brief, shining, moments we were all just punks. And we were part of something weird. There was no big message, no point. Music didn’t belong to the big dinosaur bands–it belonged to anyone who picked up an instrument. Disco sucked, hippies sucked, everything sucked–except us(and we were too sure about that–but it didn’t matter). It was great.
And then the left reared it’s ugly head and screwed everything up.
Just like they did in the sixties. I guess we just looked like the latest crop of useful idiots to them–and that’s what a lot of us became. Maybe they wanted some kind of ‘legitimacy’. Maybe they wanted to think we could change the world by sticling pins in our faces and stage diving. Maybe they wanted to be popular.
They brought in their usual garbage, class envy, racism, collectivism. And a very well honed divide-and-conquer strategy.
Pretty soon there was a right way and a wrong way to do things. The ‘right way’ was to support all the same causes that the hippies did(and there were lots of them still doddering around). The wrong way was to do what we’d BEEN doing–rejecting the hippies and everything they believed in because of the fact that they were hippies. Yeah, kinda shallow–but we weren’t trying to start some big social movement. We just wanted something that was ours.
Factions sprouted…it was awful. Skinheads went from being part of the crowd to being insta-nazis. And if you didn’t toe the line, there was always someone all too happy to re-educate you with a pair of steel-toed docs.
I turned 18 and voted for Reagan during this–watching my friends do as they were told–by old hippy-ish morons was scary. I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that peoople who can claim to want such a high degree of individual freedom vote for people who will happily take that freedom away–while telling them it’s for their own good.
Maybe they’re hoping for ‘Brave New World’ instead of ‘1984′.
And hey, why do all these little creeptastic newbies get to call themselves ‘punks’–I mean, you turned the whole thing into a hippy-rehash with the leftism–why are there neo-hippies but no neo-punks? Green Days’ hyperpolitical punkpop isn’t anything like bands that would form, perform and die all on a whim–anyone ever see the Cavity Creeps?.
When Green Day started, they sounded, to me, like a cross between the Dickies and the Buzz…..(I don’t know if the censor will allow that)
TSOL was horrible, lefty garbage from California.
Manson is not a liberal
Alice Cooper is a whiny brat. Does he tell Gene Simmons that he’s a ‘copycat’? Dee Snider? Shut up and understand that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery–quit whining.
Max’s and the Mudd Club…and CBs….what about Gildersleeves? or A7? Or the Rock Hotel? How about the Paramount theatre on Staten Island? Or the rare decent(non-metal) shows at L’Amours? Or seeing the Dolls at the St George?
Gods, I miss all that sometimes.
“I got news for ya: real punks only liked the Ramones for about a minute”
Really? How would you know? were you there? I was. And we STILL like the Ramones.
“If punk was “right-wing”, it didn’t come with mohawks”
Didn’t come with mohawks? What does that mean? That you had to have the right hairstyle to be right wing? That if you had a mohawk you weren’t into Oi–tell that to Wattie–the Exploited were on a buncha Oi compilations.
Don’t think you know what you’re talking about, Wwinfrey.
And no one’ll ever claim Skrewdriver except the nazis now. ‘Boots n’ Braces’ was a good song–but you say something racist and your entire oeuvre is garbage–if you’ve got right wing politics. But I’ll say it–Skrewdriver had some really good songs–and some really racist songs. So? There’s a lot of bands out there that say things I don’t like that still have a good song or two.
It’s funny, the left is real big on ‘nuance’–except where it disgrees with them.
Viking metal=pop music. Because it’s ALL pop music, junior.
I’ve been listening to punk since I was 13, going to shows since 15. Dallas used to have a kickass punk scene…
I loved punk, and used to think I was one, until the Internet explained to me that to be considered a punk outside my scene meant I had to be a communist or commie lite ™. So screw yall. In my area, punk used to be a bunch of folks who loved raw, simple, unapologetic music who can think for themselves. I’m not joining your clone factory, so I guess I’m never growing more liberty spikes.
Look, I just got into this discussion because I grew up as a liberal surrounded by some of the legends of punk. Some who are still currently active. And as I became conservative guess what I found out, that they felt from having lived in the scene that in a way (in a way only) that Republican was the new punk. It was shocking…but it made perfect sense…why? It was the one thing a kid could be that would p— off their parents. Look at Bush he did what was right and it p—-d off the world. How cool is that. Critic Robert Christgau said that punk “was also a subculture that scornfully rejected the political idealism and Californian flower-power silliness of hippie myth.” And though he’s a critic and therefor shouldn’t be given too much credence all the punks I know said the same thing before I ever read that quote. And who is more anti flower power silliness than George Bush! And we are the new punks because at least the rank and file of our party wants to tear down our party establishment while many in yours want to appoint your guy President for Life.
Y’know, I thought I was done, but I’m not. I wrote a long rambling diatribe that got eaten and decided just to write something short.
But that ‘real’ punks thing really sticks in my craw.
Who is anyone to decide they can call someone ‘real’ or not? That ‘real’ punks thing (and the ‘real’ skinhead thing) are what happens when lefties start destroying things.
They make factions–and if you’re ‘real’ you believe all the rehashed hippy stuff that you’re told to believe.
Lefties like pitting people against each other so they can collect the shattered remains–and that’s what they did to the punk scene–and the hippy scene before it. Class warfare, race consciousness—all kinds of tripe that had nothing to do with going to a club and pogoing until you couldn’t move.
We were all punks together once…..look what we became.
Green Day–who STILL think they’re ‘alternative’ even though they get splashed all over TV.
Anarchists that march in formation in their cute black outfits(and support organizations that represent central planning.
People like Wwinfrey who think a haircut denotes a stance.
Pathetic.
Punk is right wing. Punk has ALWAYS been right-wing. Because punk is–or WAS–about the triumph of the individual over the collective–about what I want to do and not about any ‘we’.
We used to make fun of the herd mentality–do you have any idea how sad it is to see people who call themselves punks still doing that–while spouting the party line of the left? It’s like they bleat in unisom, ‘You’re all sheeple’.
Here’s the thing, if you accept a central authority as an ideal way for humans to organise their lives, you’re a leftist(and that includes those whose ‘central authority’ is God). If you accept that individuals can best make decisions for themselves then you’re a rightist.
Where does punk fall?
Just to let you all know – conservativepunk.com. This has been around for a while, actually. (At least 5 years, I think). Punk was nothing more than a musical style, really. There was nothing political about it except mindless rebellion that was systematized into a liberal think by those who followed the Clash, really. Sorta like how “fascism” became “far right wing” because Moscow said so. There are a lot of people who play punk, in all its shades and variations, who are lot more conservative than people (and sometimes even they) know. Most just think punk = liberal.
This is fantastic…I can’t believe I came across this article.
I have been deeply involved in Punk since as long as I can remember. As much as I was brainwashed into thinking that conservatives were the enemy, I couldn’t wrap my mind around the lefts ridiculous agenda. So I meandered in and out of logic until around 9/11. I watched how certain people reacted and realized that being Punk rock is actually the opposite of todays liberalism.
There are a lot of confused people involved with the Punk scene. Just like any other youth movement, theres a mixture that runs the gambit of spoiled, bored rich kids trying to be an “individual” to the actual deep thinking, philosophical gentlemen and ladies that make up the bulk of the scene. Its not monolithic, but if most where honest with themselves, like I had to be, then they would realize that Punk was the anti-leftist movement that had defined the sixties. At its core, it was a reaction to the excesses of that decade and a striving to get back to basics.
To be sure, Punk doesn’t make a great fit with the religious right that hijacked the conservative movement in the 80s or really the republican party. Nor is it especially libertarian. It is, like our Founders, concerned with restraining authoritarian impulses in our government and a strong sense of family and loyalty.
Having said all of that, Im under no delusion that young Punks today understand all that or that they really care. To be sure, the movement can also be defined as strong apathy towards the hopelessness of it all. But unlike most youth movements like gangsta rap or metal, it advocates, generally, nonviolence and common sense instead of violence and emotive, empty platitudes.
Im a Punk AND a proud conservative.
Oh yeah and “The Fop”, I don’t need to have purple hair to prove that.
Oh yeah and D.I.Y. (Do it yourself) is originally a Punk mantra and couldn’t be more American! The Clash ranted against a SOCIALIST government and fascism (socialism) was/is the enemy!
Being anti-establishment for the sake of being anti-establishment rather than because of any kind of personal values or world-view is rather shallow and would actually be a type of conformity.
Skrewdriver was a Skinhead band not Punk…
Punk isn’t a dress code. It’s a state of mind.
A state of mind that’s willing to say what one thinks, even when the “establishment”, the “in-crowd”, or the “beautiful people” don’t like it.
The punks I know will tell you what they think, even if they risk getting their ass kicked for saying it. They don’t give a rat’s ass about conformity, being PC, or public opinion.
In fact the most Hard Core of these people I know, are also ironically the most tolerant. Probably, because they aren’t a bit suprised that you might have an opinion of your own.
schnell–you are absolutely right. Any Punk worth his salt should be horrified with the herd mentality it takes to get behind a bonehead like Obama or the hateful-disguised-as-please-accept-the-victim politics of the left.
daddyx-”In this old punk’s opinion, The Declaration of Independence is the best written Bronx cheer to the power-hungry aristocrats, and the 2nd Amendment is the ultimate “screw you” to the government.”
what a great way to put it. I’ve been to your site and for what ever reason, my email address was “rejected” and the admin won’t return my emails but I would love to access that site!
BTW-I saw an interview on the Daily Show once with a punk who identified himself with republicans. Man they couldn’t make fun of him enough. I just thought I’d share that.
please.
this dude is lazy and ignorant. go to any punk/indie/whatever show in a basement or living room, and you’ll see that “rock” is alive and well, whatever that is/was.
you need to out more. having toured the country every year for the last 10 years, it’s breath-taking the scope and power of the art and music we are blessed to see, and it leaves me optimistic and energized. it’s magic. every night, all across small towns in this country.
so get out of your cube and turn off the laptop, grandpa!
vince -who are you talking to and what point are you trying to refute?
Typical–someone runs their mouth and then runs away.
daddyx ? Are you still there?!!
doug – you rock, man! ’nuff said.
Well, I don’t feel so alone anymore.
[...] 2, 2009 in history and current events | by SEK Ancillary to a point I would’ve made had this been worthy of a [...]
Ooops…JHarp says we’re a joke. Better shut it down. SHUT IT DOWN BREITBART, some guy named JHarp said we’re a joke. Sure there were 250 plus posts well argued from all points of view and a couple of million visitors to the site in a week, but I always say….if we so much as make even one liberal upset…we’re outta here!
P.S. – Well put Tennwriter…but have you heard we’re all leaving.
TB – waitaminit – I recognize those lyrics! Could they have been written by the most unabashed capitalist rock stars who ever pretended to be “revolutionaries” so that they could suck the dollar out of a gullible young punk’s pocket – The Clash? Wotta joke (but they fooled everybody) They sucked corporate wang every day – they were total corporate tools. Have you ever read the transcripts of The Clash arguing with CBS execs over nickels while renegotiating their contracts shortly after London Calling? You’re a sucker if you believed them to have any “street cred” whatsoever…
Also, lets not confuse Republican and Bush with Conservatism.
I agree that maybe the older generation of Republicans had kept their mouths shut way too often and maybe could have used to release their “inner wildman”, but my impression of young grassroots conservatives is a melding of what Punk was and what conservatism is going to become.
Shoved into a corner and fighting for the very idea of independence and individualism( Not to be confused with todays lame interpretation of “Individuality”). Truly the last great hope.
[...] TenNapel wrote a column called “Republican is the New Punk” that I found interesting. He speaks of how, now that Obama Politics is the new status quo [...]
Do you guys actually believe that just because you are the minority that you’re actually hip? This is really kind of a retarded article to begin with. Do you know why Obama won and you lost?
It’s because Bush was unqualified to run to run the country, and his incompitance shown through.
It’s because he was never a good conservative to begin with.
It is ESPECIALLY because the Republicans started shoving mainstream herd mentality down our theroats with the whole “you support us or you’re unamerican” mantra that was gleefully spread by unhip icons like Hannity and Limbaugh. Meanwhile, you let Howard Dean quietly rebuild the Democratic movement from the ground up because you were too arrogant to admit you ever make mistakes
Even now, conservatives are tearing themselves apart within the party and you are all still just trying to find a way to blame Obama for something. You betrayed America with a lot of stupidity and the notion that Sarah Palin was some kind of super champ of conservative values when she couldn’t even tell Couric what newspapers she reads.
If you want to win, you got to understand how the Democrats won, that it takes some modicum of teamwork, not trying to portray yourselves as the new “hip” outsiders. Until you actually understand, you will always be the “New Country” rather than “Punk”, and that is certainly not a coompliment…
[...] leave a comment » Submitted without comment: [...]
While I agree that conservatism may be the new anti-establishment, no way in hell is the republican party at the forefront of it. You seem to ignore the fact that there was and is an ongoing rebellion within the Republican party itself, as it has betrayed it’s own conservative values. Party faithful have jumping ship left and right in the wake of the disastrous expansion of government under Bush, many signing up for the LP, or at least bucking the will of republican leadership by supporting Ron Paul. If anything the Republican party is the first victim of a rebellion against failed, bloated, big government policy. The nation only turned to the Democrats having nowhere else to go in our two party dominated political system. Time will only show that Obama’s policies will be ineffective at best, or at worst, exacerbate the nations economic problems, leading the Democratic party as victim number two.
“You encouraging violence against those you don’t believe in? Can I punch a Christian if he tries to get me to change what I believe in?
Dangerous words Mr T. Liberals never ONCE endorsed violence against the right when they were the punks.”
First off to say that Punks NEVER endorsed violence is a pretty uninformed absolute, but that’s not the point anyway. The “fist” is a sign of defiance tied to punk rock. Not a threat of violence. Here’s a simple experiment for you. Google the words “punk fist” then click “images” and see for yourself how integral to punk rock imagery the fist is.
Somewhere along the line, I’ve always felt that this was true in my heart and mind. Somehow I always figured the ‘anti-establishment’ crowd on the Left was really the ‘Man’ anyway. After all, they expounded the ‘evils’ of government while simultaneously promoting government programs to ‘cure’ all the ‘ills’ of society.
Self sufficiency has always been rebellion. After all, societies always inevitably alienate SOMEBODY out there. Those who can’t hack it on their own fall by the wayside and die; those who can make it on their own survive and become better men.
The world of music always changes, the world always changes; but then, its a fact the world never becomes more tolerant, it just switches targets. It kinda feels good to be on the Rebel side now.
Hey, TB…
What successes have liberals had other than making the insurgents in Iraq think that with your help they “might just win this thing?”
This is the worst piece of crap every published even on the internet. YOu should be taken out behind the Mab Gardens, painted purple krazy, given a fauxhawk, and neutered (if possible at this point) with a rusty butter knife by a cross-eyed baboon. REagan YOuth Sieg Heil!
Dick Hertz: “YOu should be taken out behind the Mab Gardens, painted purple krazy, given a fauxhawk, and neutered (if possible at this point) with a rusty butter knife by a cross-eyed baboon.”
DootnDoosh: “Liberals never ONCE endorsed violence against the right when they were the punks”
The irony is so thick you could cut it with said rusty butter knife.
“Dick Hertz – February 3rd, 2009 at 1:03 pm
This is the worst piece of crap every published even on the internet. YOu should be taken out behind the Mab Gardens, painted purple krazy, given a fauxhawk, and neutered (if possible at this point) with a rusty butter knife by a cross-eyed baboon. REagan YOuth Sieg Heil!”
This is the typical response I knew this article would get. Its too bad that I’ve watched my scene be taken over by a bunch of shallow know it alls. The scene went mainstream and now its attracting about the same caliber of followers (as in sheep, zombies, sloganeering brats) as the Obamanation.
These children know not life and its many idiosyncrasies. Its all black and white to them. Brainwashed by popular thinking like most of America. If they would be honest with themselves, they would realize there is nothing new under the sun. The only true revolutionary movement happened 233 yrs ago and it has yet to be surpassed.
I do think its a mistake to identify with the “Republican” Party but Conservatism represents what these children take for granted. However, with their limited experience and wisdom they think a fist or shouting “Anarchy in the UK” is profound.
Punk—LIVE, LOVE IT, LEARN FROM IT but don’t limit yourself to it…
TB—Those are pretty weak examples. Considering 3 of them don’t involve American Liberalism.
Firstly FDR was a fascist himself who really had no intention of fight the fascists until he had no choice.
Im not sure which abolitionists you are talking about but liberals resisted both the movement to abolish slavery and civil rights laws.
They are also responsible for the temperance movement and the debacle that followed, Wilson’s War Socialism, which arguably was the biggest suspension of civil rights in history, the twin nightmares of The New Deal and The Great Society, Vietnam, the War on Drugs/Poverty/Common Sense and on and on and on.
Make no mistake, todays liberal is yesterdays fascist because their answer is always more government power.
Oh yeah and Obamas election was hardly a “landslide”.
TB-Thats the best you can up with? No facts to support your point? Just name calling and sarcasm? Whoa man you really showed me…
Regardless, Im not defending Republicans. If you want to contend with them Im not your man. But you wouldn’t know that because as a liberal, you ignore facts like my comment that Republicans don’t really represent Conservatism and that Im not a Republican.
Todays Liberalism is a direct descendant of the Progressive movement which in turn was either a product of or an inspiration for European fascism. To defend that, well, makes you seem uninformed to say the least.
As to any of the babble that CCFK responded with, it really prove nothing about Conservatism or Liberalism just that both parties have their heads up their asses. That I won’t argue with. When any conservative opposed civil rights legislation it was on the basis of states rights which is important to uphold if we are to keep our representative republic in its correct, Constitutional role.
TB-
Sorry to make you feel so bad. I remember when I first found out about The Clash being atypical rockstar retards. It crushed me, too! They suckered me as well. That was right around the time that punk music started turning into what it is today. A commodity. A product. Background music for social retards who fancy themselves to be “edgy” airmchair revolutionaries stickin’ it to the mannnnnnnnn. Prepackaged rebellion in 16 different colors (collect them all!) at 20% off this week if you use your Target charge card!
The Sex Pistols were really one of the only true punk bands, when you think about it. At least they were honest about just wanting your money and considering you contemptable and stupid enough to give it to them. Very unlike Joe “Son of an English Diplomat” Strummer and Co. Oh, the irony of their legendary lyrics from “White Man at Hammersmith Palais” – “turning rebellion into money.” Don’t you feel like a sucker? Ha!
I love to be called a poseur by fellas like you, because anyone who calls another a poseur without knowing a thing about them are usually one of two types: Guys who jumped on the commercial punk bandwagon about 10 years ago, whose musical knowledge goes all the way back to that “really old first Green Day record, dude!” OR middle-aged guys who could never give up the “punk” lifestyle because it bought them some sense of identity and belonging that they never had, and whose peer group is still 17 year old skinheads. You still see these guys at shows, and they’re quite sad to observe. They’re the sort who would laugh at a guy who still collected comic books into his 30s, but who really are much more pathetic, having become socially retarded through the identity trappings and narrow tunnel vision politics that are defined as acceptable within the “punk rock” community. There’s nothing quite as pathetic as a 45 year old guy with an eyebrow stud buying the newest CD by tired-assed, 4th generation has-beens like Bad Religion. Self professed “non-conformists” who all look alike, think alike, and have the same music collections. Non-conformity is the new conformity, my friend. Think pre-dirtnap Tim Yohannon and ladle on a few more scoops of irrelevance and ya got it.
No, I’m not much of a punk anymore, but I was there from the beginning, and I do know the spirit of what punk was meant to be. If you have an extensive collection of old punk singles, you most likely have something that I designed. Ditto for fanzines like Flipside, Max RR and Touch and Go. Believe me, I know poseurs. I don’t really identify much with youth subcultures anymore. You could probably call me an old fart and be more accurate than “poseur.”
Oh, crap, Tb, tell you’re really not aware that the abolitionist party was the Republicans? That Dems fought Civil Rights tooth and nail? That Dems call a former kleagle(Klan recruiter the coscience of the Senate?
That MLK was a Republican? That one might be a surprise–it was to me–I found out on the Black Republcan website.
The Civil Rights Act passed with a larger percentage of sitting Republicans voting for it than the percentage of sitting Democrats. CCFK is correct that Rep were the minority so they couldn’t have passed the bill themselves–but had they not voted for the CRA, it would not have passed–as it was Dems filibustered it.
And the bis switch in party CCFK talks about didn’t happen–had it, the Congress would have changed hands–it didn’t. Nor did the anti-CRA Dems leave the party–some are still there–inclubing the ex-kleagle who was one of the leaders of the filibuster against it–Robert Byrd(KKK, W.Va.)
Funny, isn’t it, how the fact that Republicans opposed slavery in 1856 and 1860 means absolutely nothing today–one of the biggest moments in our nations’ history–and it ‘means nothing’. Know why? Because the Dems were on the wrong side of the issue. They WANTED blacks to remain slaves.
But hey, that ‘means nothing’ today….
And hey, TB, I bet you’re really familiar with the term ‘poser’. Know how I can tell? ‘cos no one was saying ‘poseUr’ or writing it back then. But hey, that was like thirty years ago–no one’s gonna be calling you that anymore–they’ve all forgotten you ever wandered out of mommy’s caddy into a show looking like a reject from the ‘my kid’s gone punker’ after-school special.
TB,
I see you’ve stolen my narrative about the adults being too busy running the country to listen to the knee-jerk contumacy of punk kids who don’t contribute anything relevant to the national debate. Referring to yourself and the perpetually juvenile left as the adults is just precious. I guess you didn’t think I’d run into you again. Trolls aren’t the only ones able to surf conservative websites.
I also see that you’re still peddling the left’s tired old canards about conservatism. Some things never change, and some people never grow (or grow up.) BDS is yesterday’s fad–kind of like the mindless contumacy of punk rock.
Great Article!!!!
It will be great to play some offense for a change. In fact I enjoy listening to Rush even more because republican and conservatives don’t have to constantly defend the Bush Administration from the crap media.
Yep it’s all in their (liberals) hands now, no more Bush to blame and no more excuses. Hannity was right, honest journalism is indeed dead. The new conservative’s are going underground. Let’s see if Liberal’s can get as good as they give. My bet is that libs won’t be able to handle the heat.
It’s going to be a blast.
Is it just me or as TB claims to be an adult, he hasn’t actually said anything grownup yet? Im all for debate but having two children myself, I know that you can’t reason with them and common sense is a few years away.
Its also telling that I can predict what he’s going to say about conservatives because it comes from the “Lazy Liberals Field Guide to Defending Emotion over Reason for Idiots.” I lived it and Im familiar with their tactics.
Cool kids?!! Late to the party?!
Thats the problem today, Punk is a fad now, just like Obama. It’s funny you mention Blink because I think you may be a member of that band.
IM not sure what point you are making about electoral patterns, except to
“sound” informed, but the point you proved is that ultimately the American people generally reject liberalism. There are a lot of good Dems but they tend to be Blue Dogs who haven’t fell for the gradual trend of radicalizing their party. And whats the fixation with the south? Are you trying to equate republicans with southern racism? The Klan has been traditionally comprised of Democrats until recently-David Duke, Bull Conner.
The point is the ideological shift that HAS occurred has been the hijacking of the Democratic party by Progressives and leftists who are the ones constantly pointing out the differences between groups of this and that minority. Drilled into our head that Obama is black when it suits them and we shouldn’t really be concerned with that when it doesn’t. Women should be supported except when they are a conservative or a white liberal running against a black MAN. The hypocrisy of the people you are trying to defend should be embarrassing to you.
That being said, yes you are right REPUBLICANS SHOULD ALSO BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES-at least the DC variety. We are trying to contend that there is a new movement afoot that both parties and the Progressives should fear. Its time to throw out old conceptions that have been foisted on us be historic revisionists and liberal “intellectuals” also by self serving Republicans (John Mccain, George Bush, Pat Robertson)!
TB-Again, you are the only one embarrassing yourself here.
And Tom, CBGBs was the biggest selling out of the Punk Scene as Woodstock was for the Hippies. Its the classic forest from the trees. You can never see as clearly when you are right there as you can in retrospect.
It was made for elite media darlings by elite media darlings. Chrissie Hynde was a bandwagoner and still is. Licking coke off of anything is an embarrassment. I wouldn’t be bragging about that.
The only people I see screaming about nothing and everything is the liberal establishment. They cry and whine about anything they perceive as “unfair” just like my 5 and 9 year old. Except they don’t really believe in it. Because you are a washed up burnout doesn’t mean the rest of us should respect that. Same to Chrissie whos music was never really all that good. Its a good thing they learned to play their instruments because now they can get a review in the NY Times. Ugh.
Punk is neither “anti-establishment” or “anti-everything” whatever that means. It was about being enough of an individual to realize most people are wrong. It was about a reverse mass movement. Because it turned into one does not underscore that it only serves to show how many pathetic people need a reason to exist. Obama is that for most people now and that too is not new in history. Conservatism is not Republican controlled. That party is just as responsible through inaction as liberalism is because of nothing but action.
Who’s going to recognized reason? You?
BTW–I like Pat Boone
[...] Andrew Breitbart is a Hollywood conservative and well known presence on the internet. He has recently launched a new site called “Big Hollywood” designed to give a platform to right wingers in LA LA Land. Doug TenNapel (creator of Earthworm Jim) recently posted a piece there entitled “Republican is the New Punk” : http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/dtennapel/2009/01/31/republican-is-the-new-punk/ [...]
Ian, CBs wasn’t a ’sellout’ until Hilly leapt into it’s commercialisation with that stupid record store. And I think there was some kinda cafe before it closed….but it’s been a while.
But the shows at CBs—the matinees–
You guys really went there? Here’s a question. There was a store across the street–a bodega, sort of, they served something that got a nickname around the area–particularly in the matinee crowd, I think someone even stuck it in a song. Know what it was?
[...] such as believing that you turned purple last night but no one else can see it. Oh yes, Doug TenNapel is pulling the classic right wing insecurity thing—knowing that the left has all the cool clothes, good music, and best heroes, they try to come [...]
Gee, I dunno THE UNDERLING, how about kicking your ass in the biggest landslide election in the past 25 years?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
Dude, go look at the numbers again. Obama’s win was by under 10%. REAGAN had the biggest landslide of the past 25 years.
Try again, genius.
Punk? How about lite jazz?
In order to be punk, you cannot clain to be punk. That violates all rules of punk.
I am going to kick a republican’s ass today.
You retard.
TB,
I said success, not winning an election. We get it…we get it…you won. But after these few tax evading pork swilling days I don’t think it’s getting off to much we’d call success. And though I’m open, what Obama proposes certainly won’t be success in even your ideas when he’s done.
As far as your list, keeping in mind that I don’t hate liberals (even current ones) but anything good which was once quote liberal fits in the span of today’s conservatism. What you all preach now is Sociabiggovernment.
THE “LANDSLIDE” ELECTION – Statistically it’s 50-50 with McCain leading until about a month before the election. Reagan had the only landslide in modern times. Very few liberals are even making that claim about O.
AMERICAN REVOLUTION – Religious freedom and taxation issues drove that.
WOMEN’S SUFFRAGE – Anti-Abortion was a key tenet of that movement.
THE ABOLITIONIST MOVEMENT – Religious people again…the ones you want to get rid of TB.
WWII – A war all conservatives would agree with. Good for FDR, at least in that respect. However it does remind me that Democrats historically are the party of war. The closest guy you have to FDR now is Joe Lieberman (I’m not saying in stature don’t go there) and you drummed him out of the party.
GANDHI – Gandhi’s cool, but he also said this…”The science of war leads one to dictatorship, pure and simple. The science of non-violence alone can lead one to pure democracy.” Modern liberals want a strong state which is very violent. Even something like the trans-fat ban is ultimately enforced by the point of a gun. Oh, and where have liberals ever been non-violent (see the Gandhi like Bob’s post)
KING IN THE SOUTH – He came out of Republican background and was RELIGIOUS. I’m not classically religious my self but SEE A THEME HERE????
MANDELA in South Africa – Thanks for the geography lesson TB, I thought he lived in West Covina…but anyway…he wouldn’t have been in jail if Kennedy’s CIA hadn’t tipped off the South African Government to his whereabouts so thanks liberals!!!
This must be why it’s embarrassing for you to read these posts. But anyway, your kind of fervent defense of your so-called liberal points is a sign you’re going to some day be a conservative. I’m not kidding. Happened to me to. You realize that your talking points make a lot less sense than our talking points. And even if they’re a draw, freedom from government is better than dependence on government. Unlike how someone would feel about me on a liberal site, I like you TB…you speak your mind. I love the mix of different points of view on this site. We don’t liberally TOS people because we don’t like their views…we don’t have to, we believe in and understand our ideas. And by the way…what a thread…still going a week later. Hit a nerve like I said before.
What was punk originally? An attempt to get rock and roll away from the hippie indulgent crap it turned into by the late ’60s-early ’70s. By the 1980s, it was the white man’s hip-hop, with a bunch of poseurs sitting around worrying who was the most authentic. Now, God knows what it really means anymore.
Poster “Huh? ” also posted his approach to existence. Outstanding!
Republicans aren’t cool, but they’re almost like DEVO: “We’re through bein’ cool!” The Democrats are blinded by their coolness to the point they probably still wear their sunglasses at night.
Now lemme go dig out “Holiday in Cambodia” to play for Noam Chomsky and all the “progressives” and US liberals out there.
The Missus…
Many conservatives I’ve known are into ending the war on drugs. It’s certainly not the Republican party line…but it is in many peoples’ view a conservative idea to get the government out of such things.
Oh, my, Frank! I can’t believe someone called Zappa a Conservative! Has this person ever in their life listened, actually listened to his lyrics, or listened to any interviews of him? Yikes!
As for the Republican = Punk thing um, well, I think if I quote one of my favorite Propoghandi tunes here the naughty word filter would not approve but the title is something like Stick the Something Something Flag up your Something Something Something. Look it up.
This does beg the question though… how extensive is the punk section in your music collection and what does it consist of?
Republicans can be punk when I see McCain pogo.
[...] Girls with a Soul Patch Doug TenNapel recently wrote an interesting post at Big Hollywood exposing some in the rock industry for selling out. Bottom line: they think they are rebellious, then they go off and heartily endorse one of the most [...]
This is 100% laughable, even for a fluff piece.
No artist that endorses any politician, “liberal”, or “conservative”, is worth paying any attention to, period. If they are endorsing mediocrity, then can you guess what they have to offer you artistically? Exactly.
The real punks recognize that you have 2 faces of the same oppressing class to chose from. And they are pissed about it, as we all should be.
@ATOMICAT – yes, Zappa did consider himself “conservative” – but not in the Neocon sense. He did not identify with any political party. He found both the Democrats and Republicans of the time completely useless, which is just as true today. Check YouTube for his appearance on Crossfire.
“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre.” – Frank Zappa
Brock,
Good post. The Zappa quote is amazing, how I feel about politics myself. The difference today is that the Democrats have the most shiny outrageous scenery and thus need to be attacked the most. But it doesn't hide a brick wall it hides a tank.
As far as "neocon" conservatives. There is no such thing, it's just a word coined by the press/academia and used to hang around Republicans neck. It's one of the illusions of which you so well speak in your post.
After re-reading the comments in this abyss of stunted internet intellectualism, I now realize that you probably all think the concept of underground music that exists outside the mainstream and is still both political and "rebellious" is blasphemy.
The political era did not begin with U2, the world did exist before the 80s.
[...] and it scared the establishment. Johnny RamoneThe rebellious spirit of rock is dead. source: Republican is the New Punk, Big [...]
The problem here is equating "Punk Rock" with 50s Rock'n'Roll, a mistake Johnny Ramone does in a lot of interviews.
[...] Big Hollywood » Blog Archive » Republican is the New Punk bighollywood.breitbart.com/dtennapel/ – view page – cached Johnny Cash was punk rock. The birth of rock came when Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Roy Orbison and Cash toured small towns and set the youth on fire. Parents were outraged. The long dippity-doo hair atop gyrating men “dancing like the negroes” before frothing young girls set mainstream culture against this rebellious little movement. It was our first smell of anarchy and it scared the establishment. — From the page [...]
rock of today(indy,pop, rap) is very corporate (that is not leftist) and obama isn't even the left he is a neo liberal (that is on the right of the political spectrum). there are still underground bands against this kind of politic they are just censored and ignored by the monopolized main stream media. republicans will never be cool, but nice try.
There is no left or right. The ghostenemy behind the smokescreen is you… and it will never change unless we break our ego`s down & modify it to fit another state of mind.
Republicans are punk rock ?!
Terrorists are punk rock =)
Society breeds apathy…
I think Chuck D and Flavor Flav put it nicely when they sang:
Got to give us what we want
Gotta give us what we need
Our freedom of speech is freedom or death
We got to fight the powers that be
Lemme hear you say
Fight the power!
You must be logged in to post a comment.