“Defiance” Director Not So Defiant on Islamic Terrorism
by Debbie SchlusselOn Friday, I asked Big Hollywood readers to provide suggested questions for my interview with “Defiance” writer/director, Edward Zwick. The movie is about the Bielski brothers, Jewish partisans, who fought back against the Nazis. They saved hundreds of Jews and killed several Nazis in the process. It’s a great movie. But, after the interview, I can’t say the same for this director. He simply doesn’t get it on Islamic terrorism.
I’ve written a column on this that I hope you’ll read in its entirety, but here’s an excerpt:
He said he couldn’t see himself doing a movie about the Jews versus the Islamic terrorists in Israel because, “It’s very difficult to parse morality in what’s going on in the Middle East and especially in the last two weeks. It’s full of moral complexity that I’m not sure I could address in a two-hour movie. What I’m loathe to do is to analogize between this [the Nazis vs. the Bielskis] and the contemporary situation. I didn’t want to have a movie with an agenda.”
But when I pointed out that there is clearly an agenda and clearly good guys and bad guys in “Defiance” (not to mention, “The Siege”), he responded with more psychobabble gobbledygookish squirming, that his movie “showed the difference between passivity and powerlessness [and was] a necessary historical redress.”
Well, there’s a “necessary historical redress” about what Islamic terrorists are doing against Jews in Israel and throughout the world.
It’s sad that Edward Zwick can’t make the connection between the old Nazis the Jews fought to survive then, and the new ones the Jews fight to survive now. Dr. Jay Bielski, son of Zus Bielski (one of the Bielski brothers depicted in the film), fought in the 1973 Yom Kippur war as a member of the Israeli Defense Force after serving as a U.S. Marine during Vietnam. His sons now serve in the Israeli Army.
Read the whole column.
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288 Comments
Lola, I disagree. It's not moral relativism. It's having a basic understanding of history. Shouting Nazi every time something bad happens is lazy and inaccurate. This doesn't mean that Hamas is anything but evil. It simply means that history should be respected, not manipulated to give you an ideological tingle. And that goes for both sides of the political divide.
And again, before you respond. This is a disagreement, not a holy war.
well thanks for identifying another movie I won’t see…
Zwick won’t have a piece of my next $9 at the movie… how’s that Eddie?
Glad to see you here Debbie! This site just keeps getting better.
i was going to see this movie, but now? never! this zwick is a leftwing, terrorist-loving imbecile.
this zwick is a leftwing, terrorist-loving imbecile. i won’t see your movie, jackass.
Zwick=coward. End of story. Big chicken.
Shouldn’t you people be jerking off to the new season of 24? Everybody except you is a Nazi. How convenient.
I’m more of the “never forget” philosophy. I can disassociate myself from the idiot director and go view a piece of history. Why do apologist Jews make movies about the Holocaust? It’s spelled m-o-n-e-y. Which makes them the biggest hypocrites of all.
Nazis – guys with funny mustaches chanting “Death to the Jews”
Hamas – guys with funny mustaches chanting “Death to the Jews”
‘But when I pointed out that there is clearly an agenda and clearly good guys and bad guys in “Defiance” (not to mention, “The Siege”), he responded with more psychobabble gobbledygookish”
That is because both sides are bad in the israel/palestine issue. Nobody is free of guilt. And its a terrible situation. The whole world was condemning the Nazis, and in fact fighting them to help the Jewish people. Now its not so clear. There are people who feel both ways because its more complicated and the Israelis are not without fault, having committed atrocities of their own.
Tehstupid,
So, your a Nazi if you exercise your free will to decide what you will and won’t do with your money? Is that what goes for intelligent conversation with you? Every time you people use that droll comment it cheapens the lives of million of people executed by the Nazis. Bravo genius!
“It’s very difficult to parse morality in what’s going on in the Middle East and especially in the last two weeks. It’s full of moral complexity that I’m not sure I could address in a two-hour movie.
It was called Munich.
BTW, don’t people in his line of work revel in complexity and nuance?
This is utter crap. I’ve known Ed for nearly thirty years, and believe me, when Debbie paints herself as the fearless interrogator and Ed as the squirming target? She is straight up lying. There are few more articulate spokesmen for their own movies than Zwick, and that goes for answering barn-door obvious questions like the one’s Debbie posed to him.
And it’s worth noting for those who didn’t bother reading the whole column, Dr. Jay Bielski, who fought in the Yom Kippur war, and who is lionized in the BH piece, completely supports Ed’s point of view when it comes to Defiance. And what does he get for his trouble? Debbie tries to paint him as a quisling willing to sell out his own beliefs in order to pimp the movie.
Again. Utter. Crap. And dishonest, too.
TEHSTUPID
I think your name says more about that comment than I ever could
I refused to see this movie because the “star” Daniel Craig, has been very mouthily anti-gun….as he makes his movies and his fortune wielding them on the screen for fun and profit.
Now I’m glad I didn’t, given this moron’s complete inability to see evil when it confronts him. He claims to be teribly certain about the good and evil of 60 years ago, but had he been there, he would, no doubt, have been as unable to distinguish the good from the bad in that situation as he is in the current one.
Popular consensus has taught this clueless boob that Nazis were bad. Left to his own devices, I’m sure he’d have trouble coming to such a firm conclusion. And should popular consensus change, he will change what he thinks of as his mind as well.
He will shift with the popular wind. There is no certainty in his world, no firm basis on which to judge good and evil. No standards. No foundational principles.
He is caught in the endless, mindless loop. He is ruled by popular opinion, and he is repeater, reporter and reinforcer of it.
Everybody except you is a Nazi.
Welcome to our world, Chuckles. Even hint that a government program doesn’t work and that’s what you get from the Enlightened.
I’ll add him to my list.
The J3ws started the war and there are many quotes going back all the way to 1933 where they were salivating about destroying the German people. I wonder why you don’t hear much about that?
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/quotes.html?q=quotes.html
Then the J3ws committed acts of terrorism and were rewarded with their own country paid for by US tax payers! Look up the Irgun and the King David Hotel Bombing. Israel is a terrorist nation.
Um, Harley, I’m not lying. I didn’t make up what your buddy, Ed Zwick, said. He said what I quoted, with many others–including studio reps–listening on the line. I disagree with Jay Bielski–Jay says that Ed Zwick needs to hide his true beliefs on what’s going on in the Middle East in order to sell a movie. Yet, he has no prob publicizing his pride that his family were bookies for the Capone mob. This is the kind of thing you respect? That tells me exact what is “Utter. Crap. And dishonest, too.”
Um, RICK, did you really just write, “The whole world was condemning the Nazis, and in fact fighting them to help the Jewish people”?
You might want a refresher on history about who condemned the Nazis, why America went to war against them and when. It wasn’t for the Jews. Ever wonder why FDR refused to bomb the railroad tracks to the death camps?
The main consideration for Hollywood/libs in deciding who to root for is, “Who is the bully?” (in their “mind”)
Since America and Israel have huge military/technological advantages, they’re always bullies and therefore cannot be “good.”
Think about it. This formula plays out every time, and at its root is the mental disorder that IS Liberalism: Irrational, emotion-based thinking that banishes logical thought processes.
Look at it this way. Zwick is interested in making movies and protecting his a$$. The last thing he wants to do is tick off people who are prone to burn down embassies or strap on a suicide vest and waltz into his office. But what can a Nazi do to Hollywood? After all, Nazis have been dead or powerless for nigh unto seventy years now. (Neonazis make excellent villains, however, audiences just can’t seem to work up passion against them since they’re powerless and nobody but the ten other living neonazis — usually teenage boys trying to get attention — knows any).
On the other hand, Islamic terrorists are alive and physically–if not mentally–well, and they are likely to commit acts of violence if they don’t like what you write, say, film or do. (Ask the Danish cartoonists, Salman Rushdie, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Theo Van Gogh, Daniel Pearl, the victims of 9-11). So best not to tick them off with movies about their barbarism. But if you really feel you have to make the movie anyway, and the writer had the bad taste not to use Nazis as villains, you can always change the bad guys to neonazis (See “Sum of All Fears”).
So long as Hollywood is making anti-American films, they’re doing a good job of mouthpiecing for the “Death to America” crowd. Fascists might be murderous savages, but they’re not stupid.
Debbie, gee enlighten us, so why DID Roosevelt go to war against the Nazis? Why didn’t Roosevelt bomb the railroad tracks leading to the death camps?
Debbie, let’s be clear here. You picked up a phoner two weeks after the movie opened, on the day it went wide. That means you’re a low level reviewer who got a break. It’s a food chain thing. Zwick knew exactly who he was talking to, was probably happy to do so, but he was also hardly quaking in his boots — and that’s the lie in your piece. I never said you misquoted him, it’s the larger, and fictional, characterization of the exchange I objected to. An fiction that is meant to put you in the best possible light. Which comes as no surprise.
You try to paint yourself as the fearless Warrior for Truth and Zwick as your squirming victim. I can guarantee every reader here that this is a falsehood, if only because Ed wouldn’t take you seriously enough to squirm, and particularly over the phone. Sorry. But that’s Hollywood.
I know some will disagree with me, but the only difference I can see between the Nazis and the Islamic terrorists, is the fact that it was much easier (not always, thanks to traitors and spys) to know who you were fighting. The gray and black uniforms were good targets to shoot at. Where the Nazis of today hide among civilians to carry on their attacks.
How bout we make a movie called Defiance, but instead it will be how people don’t classify themselves as Jews or Muslims, or whatever else.
I defy religion and everything else that divides us instead of uniting us.
And by the way, part of the problem here is an overly simplistic view of what’s going on the Middle East generally, and Gaza specifically — something Zwick nodded to in his answers. Here’s some worthwhile comment from the conservative writer, Daniel Larison (at The American Conservative):
As supporters of the strikes like to point out, Gaza is not Lebanon–unlike the war in Lebanon, which created a massive refugee population, a sustained war in Gaza will likely result in much higher casualties from both military action and disease, because the Gazans have nowhere to go and have limited, irregular means of acquiring humanitarian aid. The goal envisioned by Friedman is that the devastation and suffering will be such that the Gazans turn on Hamas and Hamas has to abandon its confrontational stance, which is a re-statement of the misguided goal of the blockade that has been imposed on Gaza for the last two years: “teach” the Gazans a “lesson” by making them suffer, and Hamas will be the loser. The trouble is that the reverse happens each and every time an outside force tries to “teach” a population such a “lesson.” Instead of saying to their leaders, “What have you done? You must change your ways,” the people in a besieged or bombarded city or country rally to those leaders. Ironically, the less open and less free the society, the more likely this is to happen. Political solidarity is a natural, if not always wise, response to danger, and when it is fortified by nationalism and outrage over being attacked it is even harder to break.
The disagreement then, is not about who the good guys are and who the bad guys are, but rather about tactics — both the morality of the tactics, and their efficiency.
You can read the rest of the piece here: http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/01/14/wrong-and-ineffective/
You know if you substitute the word “Jews” for “Muslims”, today’s screeds against Muslims would be indistinguishable from 1930’s Nazi propoganda.
We get it, you clowns would put Muslims in internment camps if you thought you could get away with it. Tell me, how many times has the US military invaded Islamic countries? Hmm…let’s see…Kuwait, Lebanon, Iraq (twice), Afghanistan. It takes two to Tango. Did you ever notice that the countries that never sent troops into Muslim countries have yet to be attacked by “Islamic terrorists”? Not defending or rationalizing the Al Quedas of the world, but the reason they are able to recruit so easily is because the West constantly invades their countries.
I hope that the neo-cons who have amped up the bellicose rhetoric towards Iran realize that they are actually making the mullah’s MORE entrenched by forcing a populace fearful of the coming US invasion rally around a regime that they ironically hate.
Thanks for the review. Your passionate subjectivity begs the question why you are writing reviews rather than film and directing. Zwick’s response to your misplaced paradigm makes me want to rush and see his film. He is an important director with a soul. I’m sorry that you don’t comprehend the complexities of what is going on in Gaza at this very moment. The German film “Downfall” is probably more analogous with Hamas’s ” leadership” than anything you could possibly hope for. Like Hitler and his loyal generals in their bunker, Hamas despises the innocent lives of the people incinerated by their enemies. Hitler didn’t have any emotional feelings for the hapless Germans extirpated by the Russians when they took Berlin. He despised their weakness and believed that his troops were the superior beings. In Hitler’s mind, with the ’superior’Nazi troops destroyed, the German people deserved to be hunted down and murdered by the Russians. Today, the Gazans are canon fodder to the enemies of Hamas.
That is a very different situation than the amazing story delivered by Edward Zwik in Defiance. That said, don’t you feel even a twinge of self-conscious over your conceited diatribe attacking a courageous director that took on such an important project and brought it to fruition? Maybe you and Ann Coulter should pair up and perform together as two half asses that make a whole…
First off Terry you need to seek help. I cannot believe the vile garbage you are spewing. Please stop it. Anti semtitism is repulsive. And you sir are vile.
Secondly if Harley (poor motorcycles..) wants to take on Debbie in a debate awesome. I get dibs on the best seat and pop corn and diet cokes served. Its BYOB (Bring your own beer).
And as far as the differences between teh Nazis and Hamas? Look at what both taught or teach their children. Its the exact same thing. Period. There isn’t one bit of difference. In fact if I remember right I believe they even show a few old propaganda films made by Goebbels back in the 30’s to these kids now. Way to go Habib!
As far as FDR not bombing the railroads to the camps. He dropped the ball. When my father saw Dachau, and the other camps he felt horrible. When it was discovered that yes our leaders did know what was going on and chose not to do anything well, you would have to talk to a guy who saw his friends killed and saw the remnants of Hitler’s final solution to understand how angry my father was.
Man I love this blog, I only wish I’d been reading it while the election was still on-going. Everyone’s so delusional and lost in their own blogosphere versions of reality that facts are unimportant. Good, good fun. My girlfriend and I cant stop laughing.
Anyway Debbie, the Nazis were highly organized soldiers belonging to the one of the largest countries in Europe, whereas these Palestinians belong to…no country at all. The Nazis had a huge industrial complex that dwarfed almost all of their rivals combined. These Palestinians don’t even have running water or sewer systems. The Nazi’s followed a single leader to idiotic/moronic extremes whereas these Palestinians fight civil wars simply to elect a school principal. If you don’t side with the Palestinians, fine–neither do I. But choose an analogy that makes sense as opposed to one that’s just convenient. That’s what a real writer/thinker does. These Palestinians are just dumb-ass, poor, fundamentalists with nothing to lose. In fact, now that I think about it I assume most people that read this blog could relate to them.
Thanks for the review. Your passionate subjectivity begs the question why you are writing reviews rather than film and directing. Zwick’s response to your misplaced paradigm makes me want to rush and see his film. He is an important director with a soul. I’m sorry that you don’t comprehend the complexities of what is going on in Gaza at this very moment. The German film “Downfall” is probably more analogous with Hamas’s ” leadership” than anything you could possibly hope for. Like Hitler and his loyal generals in their bunker, Hamas despises the innocent lives of the people incinerated by their enemies. Hitler didn’t have any emotional feelings for the hapless Germans extirpated by the Russians when they took Berlin. He despised their weakness and believed that his troops were the superior beings. In Hitler’s mind, with the ’superior’Nazi troops destroyed, the German people deserved to be hunted down and murdered by the Russians. Today, the Gazans are canon fodder to the enemies of Hamas.
That is a very different situation than the amazing story delivered by Edward Zwik in Defiance. That said, don’t you feel even a twinge of self-conscious over your conceited diatribe attacking a courageous director that took on such an important project and brought it to fruition? Maybe you and Ann Coulter should pair up and perform together as two half lasses that make a whole…
Harely has a friend how sweet. How long have you two been together?
It may come as a surprise to some of you but not all Palestinians are arab terrorists. In fact, few of them are. And so in this current war in the Gaza there are a lot of Palestinian civilians being killed.
You can blame Hamas on this because they really are trouble and they did start the war. And Israel most definitely has a right to protect itself. However, when Zwick talks about the moral complexity this is [I think] what he means. Arab terrorists are the bad guys. Yes. But civilians are being killed in the process. This is not nothing.
I would recommend some of you see Waltz with Bashir. An Israeli animated documentary that very much deals with such a moral complexity: When is it okay to kill people on the other side – and when is it a crime to do so. And more importantly, how does it affect the soldiers who fight the wars.
Hi Debbie! I hope you have red my comment under your last post about that phony movie “defiance”.
I dont want to repeted myself but my point is: movie tells completely false story.
Bielski brothers were not a heroic fighters, they DID not fight with Germans ( it is not surprise to me, that no one is saying/showing any PRECISE details about their “fights back” against Germans – ie: dates, places, number of Germans killed, etc, etc)
Yes, thats true, they SAVED hundreds of Jews and that is probably achievement of their lifetime. Dittos for that.
BUT, they were MURDERING local civilians around Naliboki Forest, mainly because they didn’t want to give them food or animals. Bielski’s partisans with soviet’s partisans murdered 128 people in Naliboki Village in 8 of may 1943.
And that murdering bielski’s partisans remember as a “great action” against “german garnizon”) The same village 3 months later were burned to the ground by Germans and all remaining people were taken to labor camps in Germany.
I have a question: If you are honourable and firm fighter with germans, if you are heroic and honest person and you want save lives of other people why would you murder innocent civilians only because they don’t want to give you food they don’t have enough for themselves? or animals?
How far “license poetica” can go to claim “based on extraordinarly true story” ? Events that Zwick took from their real live are not REPRESENTATIVE for them.
Taking standards from Edward Zwick i think he could equailly make movie like this:
“One man. One incredible strong spirit. First he was alone, later milions stood by him. Based on extraordinarly true story. Passion and strenght almost without limits. He bring pride back to his people. He set their souls free. This year you’ll see amazingly true story about extraordinary man. Hitler. Adolf Hitler. In cinemas March 15″
If you ONLY forger that he killed milions…
That would make a interesting film, doesn’t it?
I am really sorry that Bielski brothers story is not that pure as other wants. Many people wrote about them alredy and I think only ignorance stopped filmmakers from being a little closer to the truth about them.
And lets remember, true heroes will live forever in people’s memory but fake one will be abandon very quickly.
More details to read about Bielski’s brothers in english:
1. http://www.minelinks.com/war/bandits_1.html
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koniuchy_massacre
( The problem was that for 50 years after WW2 Poland, Ukraine and other countries were behind Iron Courtain and people in the west had a almost no chance to read or hear war stories of polish, ukrainian, bielarusian and others. But for the last 20 years you can…)
regards
“Ever wonder why FDR refused to bomb the railroad tracks to the death camps?”
‘John J. McCloy, Roosevelt’s assistant secretary of war, laid out the U.S. rationale for inaction.’
“Such an operation could be executed only by the diversion of considerable air support essential to the success of our forces now engaged in decisive operations elsewhere and would in any case be of such doubtful efficacy that it would not be warrant use of our resources,” he wrote in an Aug. 14, 1944″
Shorter version; We were trying to win the war as quickly as possible in order to save as many lives as possible.
Technical version: The B-17 and B-24 bombers if used to bomb the rail tracks to the death camps would have been on a one-way mission and would have to land in Russian occupied territory as Poland was beyond operational range for these bombers. The US Army Air Corps was a bit touchy about landing bombers in Russia since the comrades tended not to want to give them back. Not to mention having to fly BACK over Germany to reach home and re-arm.
Reality version: While the Jewish Holocaust was an immense human tragedy, there were also the Gypsies, homosexuals, Muslims, liberals, 30 million Soviet citizens and countless millions upon millions of others who lost their lives because of German atrocities and open warfare for 8+ years. The US was in it to win it, not to just save Jewish lives.
It’s a pretty weird state of affairs when MORE Israeli pundits are critical of some of the Gaza war tactics by the IDF than American pundits. In fact, Israelis are remarkably critical of their own government, while Americans seem to reflexively support the Israeli government no matter WHAT they do.
I notice you chickenhawks spouting off here about killing Hamas members and Muslims haven’t exactly signed up to go over to Gaza….just sayin’
Zwick’s nuanced morality is a precursor to the next four years. Sad. So sad for Israel. So sad for truth, justice and the Amer–err–nevermind.
1. Artists don’t like to be typecasts into predictable modes. This is for marketing and for creative purposes.
2. A lot of people “Don’t get” terrorism and Islam. This is because they haven’t been exposed to the details. Ask him what he reads and suggest (or give him) some books to read. Make sure they’re good. I suggest stuff by Bernard Lewis for background. Somebody like Craig could benefit from reading the right books.
Quickly, and I apologize if this ends up a double post. BH is a little unstable when it comes to comments. Next time, Drupal!!
Comparing Hamas to Nazi Germany is a little thin. Hamas are bad guys, they target civilians, which is despicable. Nazi Germany invaded and occupied much of Europe, including my family’s home (Czechoslovakia). And then there’s the Holocaust.
It’s weird. It used to be loony lefties who saw fascism in every bad act, and Nazis at the root of each. Weird to see the same rhetorical tic from conservatives.
“Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it…” as the saying goes, but Zwick is ignoring history on purpose to pass his idiocy on to the audience! He knows damn well that the muslims fought on the side of the Nazis and anyone with a Google can find out how much the islamofascists want to “finish what Hitler started…”, as Arafat’s grandfather once said. This entire thread reveals the deep HATE the left has for the Jews and if left unanswered, Christians as well. They should all be marching with the KKK since they hate the Jews so much! Why anyone would defend the nazis or their ideological children, is beyond comprehension to civilized people. It also shows us the horrors that await us here in the US under the new socialist regime of Barak Hussein Obama…
Racist scum like Zwick and the leftist haters on this thread should learn to read. Perhaps an education can help them with this sickening anti semitism.
Pathetic…
As a Christian, I am more than dismayed that my Jewish friends are so anti-Israel. I’ve learned that it’s Liberal versus Conservative political philosophy. How sad that they cannot see the relationship between the insane actions of Nazis and today’s Hamas in Gaza. My friends don’t realize that they are as culpable as those in WWII Germany who ignored the deliberate extermination of Jews because it was politically expedient.
[...] 15, 2009 Posted by Jehuda in Uncategorized. Tags: Film, Politics, News, Entertainment trackback Defiance director Ed Zwick twists his reasoning into a pretzel for the sake of political [...]
How exactly is Zwick being “racist” for saying that the current situation in Gaza had “moral complexity”. Again, it’s comical that Israeli citizens are more willing to criticize their own government than American conservatives. It could be that many Israelis are actually asking if the current policy of herding the Palestinians into restricted areas, preventing them from moving freely, denying them food water and medicine, and employment just might be a counterproductive strategy in the long run. For instance, if Baptists in Georgia had their homes taken from them by Buddhists, and the Baptists were herded into restricted ghettos, don’t you think the Baptists might become radicalized over time.
Unless Israel and the conservatives are going to pursue wholesale genocide or ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians, the current way they are dealing with the situation is ultimately going to fail.
Sorry, I can’t resist.
Moral ‘relativism.’
Moral ‘equivalency.’
If you’re going to call people stupid, it helps if you don’t spell like my four year old.
The Left has one single moral criteria: strong=evil, weak=good. That’s it. And this (we’re told) is “nuance”.
If Israel is strong then it must be evil, and vice versa. End of discussion. It’s so easy being a leftard.
ok, what’s with the comments that don’t show on this blog.
I’m still going to see the movie, inaccuracies and all. It looks interesting, though I doubt as interesting as the book was.
“I notice you chickenhawks spouting off here about killing Hamas members and Muslims haven’t exactly signed up to go over to Gaza….just sayin’”
Been there, darling. How ’bout you go to Israel/Gaza/Jordan/etc and tell me what it’s like? Or is “why don’t you just go to (fill in the country blank)” just for the intellectually challenged who clearly have no other important statements to make?
Harvey,
HAMAS is exactly how the Nazi party started. Am I wrong here? I just read about this. They had their supposedly separate groups that merged into one. The political and the brownshirts that worked the streets beating up the communists exactly like HAMAS and FATAH. They have the same ideology but a different power base. Why is this any different? Do you honestly think they would behave any differently than the Nazis if they obatained complete control of a state? Do you think the Jews or any other religion would be safe? Please respond I’d like to know.
Lola,
‘Argument.’ Not ‘arguement.’
Sorry for the continued corrections. I don’t usually bother, and in fairness, well, it’s not quite fair. But you’re a bully, and I don’t suffer bullies. Full stop.
As for history? You’re a dedicated tourist. Congratulations. This does not, however, make you an expert on anything other than air fare.
As for ‘thats what staff is for’? Heh. Nice. A bully and an elitist. Funny how the two often go hand in hand.
And it’s ‘that’s’. Not ‘thats’.
Drew, you’re free to prove me wrong about anything I said in my last post. You won’t because if you could, you already would have instead of launching into your ignorant namecalling. Perhaps you’d like to tell us why the left hates the Jews. Or, perhaps you’d like to show us how the Muslim Brotherhood had no connection with the Nazis? If you’re going to call someone’s post “idiotic”, you could at least back your claim up. Guess YOU’RE just one of the IGNORANT I was referring to. Thank you SO much for proving my point.
And Titov came up with this little nugget… “For instance, if Baptists in Georgia had their homes taken from them by Buddhists, and the Baptists were herded into restricted ghettos, don’t you think the Baptists might become radicalized over time.”
Well, since you’re playing “what if”, try this… ” For instance, if Southerners in Georgia had their homes taken from them by Reconstructionists, and the Southerners were herded into restricted ghettos and held at bayonette point for the next 75 years, don’t you think the Southerners might become radicalized over time.”… You’re damn right they would! They called themselves the Ku Klux Klan. The DIFFERENCE is that a CIVILIZED nation would do whatever it could to end radical terrorists in their midst, just as we did with the KKK. The muslims have not and WILL not stop the terrorists they tacitly agree with.
Looks like you know as much about history as Drew. Perhaps you two can pool your money to hire Barak Hussein a tutor as well…
It’s so fun to watch donks squirm when their racism is showing!
Truth hurts, eh Drew?
Why do you hate the Jews so much, Drew?
So prove me wrong Drew. No need to get so defensive, but at no point in your incoherent rant were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought, so here’s your chance sport… Perhaps you could enlighten us about the relatinship between the Muslim Brotherhood and the SS… or maybe you could shed some light on how the Handschar troops were given special training under Himmler’s direct orders… or how the influence of Hitler was a major motivator to a young Saddam Hussein?
But you won’t. All you can do is try to defend the hate from Barak Hussein’s party now that they’ve stolen their way back into power. You know as little of history as you do of God or anyone’s soul. Thanks for proving my point, though.
Why can’t the left delineate between good and evil? To them, “moral relativism” is considered intellectually superior.
Liberals love to make movies where the brave and out-gunned underdogs take on the evil Nazi’s. Why? Because it’s “safe.” Hitler has been dead for almost 64 years so it’s unlikely he’s going to encourage a “cell” to form up and even the score. Liberals can “pretend” they’re tough and willing to confront evil since they know there will be no payback. (See: Gay opponents of Prop 8. Confront the Mormons, since it’s pretty certain they’re non-violent, but stay far away from all the Muslims and the black churches who voted YES – they might punch us in the mouth or something).
Islamic terrorists on the other hand, are out there – right now! They’re quite capable of ordering a “hit” on anyone in Hollywood who might dare to be critical of their twisted and sick view of how the world should be (See: Dutch Filmmaker, Theo van Gogh).
Just watch, if we survive the current state of the world (thanks to conservatives and their willingness to acknowledge and confront this evil), in 50 years Hollywood will be telling (false) stories how it was the brave Democrats and liberals who saved the planet from this current fundamentalist menace.
It’s simply the nature of liberals to be cowardly and dishonest!
There is no point in fighting it. Their brains are upside down!
There are people who “get it” and there are people who will never get it. They could shuffle off the mortal coil at the hands of a terrorist and with their last breath still be mumbling “What could I have done different to reach an understanding”. Nothing you brainless surrender monkey, they are soul-less and must be defeated to the last man. Go Israel!
Dredd, so our “civilized” country did “everything it could” to stop the KKK? Really? Such as?
Hardly,
When the fabric of your arguments breaks down to correcting spelling errors, you have already lost.
Methinks I smell a no good troll.
Madelyn,
YEs, there are fanatical Muslims. I oppose them and everything they want and do. Also not fond of lunatics. But I’m not willing to paint with a bush so broad that I am blind to the possibility that there are many peace loving Muslims who simply want to live their lives free from violence and sudden death. And many of them live in Gaza.
Also? It’s extraordinarily stupid to boycott an actor or director’s movies because of his political beliefs. Even if if makes you feel like an honorary member of the 101st Fighting Keyboarders. And let’s face it, if Joseph knew the politics of every actor, actress, and director in the business?
He’d probably tire of Gary Sinese movies after a while. And I love Gary Sinese movies.
We did a hell of a lot more than the muslims are doing, titov.
Everyone knows that the ‘palestinian’ arabs voted overwhelmingly for Hamas. But you and your ilk still want to blame someone else? The lies of the left cannot hide their anti semitism! Shame on anyone who supports islamofascism!
And drew, you need to actually debate facts instead of just spewing personal attacks. Until you do, you will continue to be ignored. Now, go play. The adults are trying to talk about a very well written and provacative article here.
Debbie, when you wrote this,
“While I want Israel to beat HAMAS, there is only one way to do so–total annihilation of the Palestinians, who are all HAMAS. And again, Israel neither has the guts to do this, nor the ability to do so with its unfortunate dependence upon America and the international community.”
did the phrase “Final Solution” ever pop into your mind? When you say “total annihilation do you mean annihilate all the Palestinians or just those in Gaza for now? What method of annihilation do you think would be most effective? Are there any historical models of annihilation of a population that you think work best? So sad when you can’t get your favorite country to commit outright genocide in order to secure the living space they need.
I know it involves incredible tricks of lighting and nuanced precise angles to make you look good, Debbie; But, my God, get another picture of yourself, that blue bowling ball patterned shirt is giving me a migraine.
And no whining about how mean this is, if you can’t take it, Debbie, don’t dish it. I’ve read your petulant and pointless movie reviews, and snarkiness carries a particularly nasty Karma. End of story.
BTW, I was thinking that if there is one thing this blog and this stupid movie glorifying murder and terrorism prove is that there is one prejudice that won’t die: One group that is treated badly again and again throughout history, and it’s the Poles. Think about it, Polish jokes are still OK-Poland has clearly been the soccer field of Europe. Three million non Jewish Poles were killed by the Nazis. Poles had to wear identification for the Nazis too, as did the Gypsies. But if you’re gullible enough to get your history from Hollywood, you’d think that Jews are the only people in the world to ever suffer, of for some reason, as in “Defiance,” their suffering is so much more important it justifies murdering “Goyim” (cattle) including women sitting down to dinner with their families.
Join me in boycotting any future Daniel Craig films, especially since he considered this fascist film project “charitable.”
Go to http://www.jewishpartisans.org/defiance for free educator materials about the Bielskis as well as a guide on Ethics and Defiance. There are also profiles and short films about former Bielski partisans.
My father, Zus Bielski told me the Bielskis never could have saved 1237 Jews without their Polish friends.I grew up after the War with Zus and Tuvia; I’m Zus and Sonia’s son. I am named after my father’s brother and my mother’s brother, both Yaakovs, who were murdered by the Nazis, I am Yaakov; how fitting. Defiance captures the impulsivity of Zus and the wisdom of Tuvia. None of the Bielskis were petty criminals prior to the War that was made up in the movie as an explanation why they had, and still propagate via their children and grandchildren, aggressive skills.
The reality was that they lived in a small village and had a mill which converted wheat and other products into cooking fares (breads). Growing up they had to defend themselves and their business from the locals. They were always a family team, 9 brothers and 2 sisters, and also had many non Jewish friends who helped them during the Holocaust. They developed a reputation before the War that “you shouldn’t mess with the Bielskis because you are sure to lose” a quote by Aron Bell Bielski. As the environment grew more hostile against Jews and the Bielskis in particular, the ante was raised and so was their response to it, ruthlessness and compassion. The Defiance movie did not show Bielskis’ enemies’ heads being axed (Jerusalem in the Woods, The History Channel 11/06). The Bielskis gave the death penalty to captured Nazis by grenades as each Nazi watched his fellows get blown up knowing that he will be next. “
“It was very smelly” said Shula Rubin in The Bielski Partisans a documentary by Kumar 1996. Many unmentionable acts were done without remorse by the Bielski Otriad (excluding the massacre fallacy of Naliboki, which falsely accuses the Bielski of killing civilians unnecessarily). Remember what would you do if they killed your mother and father, your brothers, your wife and daughter? Zus never considered his revenge disproportionate nor did he consider Israel’s responses to the killing of Israelis ever disproportionate. He told me many times, THEY, will only understand the stick. The THEY change over time in the Jewish experience, was our response to Egyptian slavery disproportionate, after all many died of the plagues and sea?
I think that whether by choice or coincidence Mr. Zwick prioritized Tuvia as the Moses figure and Zus as David, of Goliath fame. This inadvertently (?)points to disproportionate responses are necessary to maintain Jewish life. Between me and you if the Bielskis’ Defiance movie has any positive influence on Israeli gov’t a more assertive and permanent solution would already be in place both politically and militarily. Defiance was not intended to directly comment on Israeli policies it intended to show that all Jews are capable and obligated to live and be defiant to anyone who threatens our existence, anytime, anywhere. Ever defiant Jay Yaakov Bielski. Zus personally killed 14 Nazis, 17 Policemen and 33 pro Nazi provocators.
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