Terror Plot: A Bronx Tale
by Dave KonigOn the same day that President Obama gave his Guantanamo speech excoriating the Bush administration (will somebody tell this guy he won the election – as the great political philosopher Dean Martin would say; “What are you hollering for? You got the job!”) the FBI rounded up a gang of knucklehead terrorists bent on a) killing Jews in the Bronx and b) killing our soldiers at Stewart Air Base in Newburgh, NY.
On the same day we were being told the Gitmo must go, that we can just absorb all those unfortunate Al Queda types into our regular prison system, guess where our Bronx Bombers were introduced to, and indoctrinated into, radical Islamic terrorism? Our regular prison system.
Timing is everything, aint it?
As a Jew from the Bronx, I gotta admit I took a little umbrage at these guys. Jews from the Bronx generally frown upon people who want to blow up synagogues in the Bronx.
As for their other plan – to blow some Army aircraft out of the Newburgh skies over Stewart, I kind of take that personally too. As a soldier in the New York Guard I have deployed out of the aforementioned Stewart in the aforementioned Army aircraft. In 2004 my State Guard unit was activated to augment National Guard troops on duty before, during, and after the ‘04 Republican National Convention. During the two week activation we made a couple of trips out of Stewart in Blackhawks and Chinooks. The Chinook is like a large airborne bus, you get a smooth ride. I fell asleep in one. The Blackhawk, on the other hand, is nerve wracking. Here’s a tip: if it’s your first time in a Blackhawk, and your pilot is a NY Air National Guardsman, don’t tell him it’s your first time. My guy took great pleasure in taking me on a joyride – with the hatch open – swooping all over the Hudson valley, laughing hysterically as I screamed like a little girl. These guys are from New York – they know how to break in a rookie.
Today, I still I have many friends in the New York Guard who regularly augment National Guard training at Stewart. So, I get a little irritated when I hear about plots to blow up military aircraft from this particular base.
In my old neighborhood (Parkchester, east Bronx) we’d save the President a lot of trouble deciding where to put these bums. Forget Gitmo, water boarding, rendition: just send them to the bleachers at Yankee Stadium on bat giveaway day. If the beer vendors do their job properly, by the third inning our Bronx Osama-lovers wouldn’t pose much of a problem for anyone!
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51 Comments
So many truly good thoughts here for a holiday weekend, Dean Martin, doubleheaders, souvenir day at the park, national guard, republicans and bronx synagogues, frontier justice that takes care of things. This reads like a treatment for a new John Wayne movie. Now, if we just had a new John Wayne.
I had to grin at your article comparing the "ride" of the Chinook and the Blackhawk, Mr. Koniq.I've been a UH-60 and CH-47 mechanic/crew chief/flight engineer since 1988 and I gotta tell ya, the pilot on the controls makes all the difference in the world.I've fallen asleep in both…and been scared outta my mind in both. You can thank/blame it all on the experience or lack thereof of the pilot.
Your solution was not the least bit nuanced. Good!
Source: THE SUNDAY TIMES
The arrest of petty crooks over a plan to target Jews has put the use of sting operations under fire
…
The operation was acclaimed by New York officials for its success in averting what David Paterson, the state governor, described as “a heinous crime”.
Yet not every New Yorker was impressed by the latest in a long line of purported anti-terrorist triumphs that have supposedly averted tragedy in New York, Chicago, Toronto and several other North American cities since
“This whole operation was a foolish waste of time and money,” claimed Terence Kindlon, a defence lawyer who represented the last terror suspect to be tried in New York state. “It is almost as if the FBI cooked up the plot and found four idiots to install as defendants.”
Kindlon’s complaints were echoed by other legal experts who have repeatedly questioned the FBI’s reliance on undercover informants – known as confidential witnesses (CWs) – who lure gullible radicals into far-fetched plots that are then foiled by the agents monitoring them.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_an...
There's only one place for mass murderers of non-combatants and innocent bystanders, unfortunately the founding fathers and our legal system don't allow it. Given the divisive nature of our current policy towards 'terrorists', I can't help but think we're addressing this issue wrongly. I was impressed by BHO's response to those of a liberal bent who recently criticized him for reversing several of his positions (and campaign promises) regarding photos, guantanamo, interrogation techniques, and military tribunals, "That's not helpful."
reminds me of my ALL TIME FAVORITE baseball promotion. DISCO DEMOLITION!!! We hook up each of these terrorist in the middle of Yankee Stadium with C4 under their seats and you blow them up, one at a time!
Steve Dahl would be proud.
As a Catholic, I generally frown upon people who want to blow up synagogues in the Bronx. It's a respect thing. I know you would generally frown upon people who would want to blow up Churches anywhere.
But these idiots don't care, they want havoc.
Sadly, when ballparks have bat days, they give you the bats on the way out, or give you a voucher you can use to send for your bat. The authorities frown on the combination of beer and cudgels.
Idiots or not–we're talking about people who think that God will reward them for killing innocent civilians and Guardsmen with a Penthouse Forum version of Paradise–the intent of these four was clearly to carry out their plot to bomb the synagogues and the airbase.
Are you, Kindlon, and the London Times suggesting that these creeps deserve a pass because they were too stupid to suspect a sting?
Just what kind of geniuses do you think that most suicide bombers are?
You are talking doing this with the old Yankee Stadium, right? 'Cause we just spent a boat load of money on the new one and it would be such a waste. I hear it's really nice. Otherwise, I'm on board. You also might consider Shea Stadium. That is ready for demolition too. Your options on locations is limitless.
I am suggesting entrapment.
http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/doss...
So far you have cited two sources. The lefty London Times and an article by Louis Proyect aka The Unreprentant Marxist. Are you planning on citing any genuine sources?
The authorities set a trap. That is not "entrapment." Their clear intention and what they needed to accomplish it were manifest, and the authorities merely provided what they required (fakes, of course). That has nothing to do with the legal definition of "entrapment.." Their lawyer called it entrapment. What did you expect him to do, announce their guilt?
"Entrapment" requires that the authorities place both the idea and the plan in the heads of miscreants who had no idea of doing any such thing before the ideas were given to them by those authorities. That is definitely not the case here. If you want to argue that these goofballs were incompetent, so be it, but do not cite anti-American sources to bootstrap your entrapment argument. Here's the Associated Press description of the things that went before and during their attempts to do serious harm to America in general, and a synagogue in particular. It was their own idea, and their own plan, and their own hate:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090521/ap_on_re_us/u...
So the Bush Justice department seemed inept, then.
!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~!
From:http://crooksandliars.com/node/28351
"There sure was an eruption of interest in domestic terrorism in the media yesterday over that case involving the black Muslim men who wanted to bomb synagogues and planes in the Bronx.
However, you'll notice one key detail here:
A federal law enforcement official described the plot as “aspirational” — meaning that the suspects wanted to do something but had no weapons or explosives — and described the operation as a sting with a cooperator within the group.
“It was fully controlled at all times,” a law enforcement official said.
In other words, these guys had neither the means nor the wherewithal to actually pull off any of these attacks. And an FBI informant helped them take action. We'll see if this case withstands the obvious entrapment defense that the men's attorneys are about 99.9% certain to use.
And that word, "aspirational" — where have we heard that before? Oh yeah.
That was the word U.S. Attorney Troy Eid of Colorado used when he announced his decision not to pursue the case of the white-supremacist tweakers who were caught trying to kill Barack Obama in Denver. He called their plot "more aspirational than operational".
So you have to wonder how authorities — not to mention the media, particularly right-wing media like Fox News, and particularly right-wing pundits like Laura Ingraham, who wondered out loud why President Obama didn't mention the Bronx case in his speech yesterday regarding terrorists — would react if the guys who had been caught yesterday had all been white.
Actually, we know already. They'd have completely ignored the case. Just like the Denver case. And just like dozens of others.
Some others of recent vintage, all of which featured elaborate fantasies of destruction akin to our Bronx bombers' plot, and all of which involved white domestic terrorists, all of which were largely ignored by the media:
– The skinheads arrested in Tennessee for plotting to kill Obama too. Remember their plan?
According to the ATF, Cowart and Schlesselman planned to suit up in white tuxedoes and top hats and then massacre 88 black people, 14 by decapitation, including Obama among their targets.
– The Alabama militiamen who plotted to go on an anti-Latino killing rampage:
The heavily armed Alabama Free Militia planned to attack a group of Hispanics in Blount County and had orders to open fire immediately if they saw the feds coming, an ATF agent said Tuesday.
– The far-right "Patriot" who constructed a sodium cyanide bomb capable of killing hundreds.
– The ex-Army Ranger who planned an anti-abortion killing spree.
Notice one thing about these cases? They were similarly "aspirational," but at the time of the arrests, all of the suspects possessed weapons and/or bomb materiel.
And yet, as in the case in Denver, authorities either refuse to pursue such cases or they downplay them and suggest that the lack of apparent competence is reason to not take them seriously.
A terrorist defense lawyer is questioning the FBI's methods?
I am shocked! Shocked I say!
If only Obama would have apologized more, these terrorist wannabes would have lost their motivation.
To assume that dangerous bombs can only be put together by rocket scientists is dangerously naive and only a complete idiot would dismiss this as a threat. If some moron wants to blow something up especially if he does not mind killing himself in the process trust me he can learn enough to do it from a high school chemistry book.
It's unbelievably hysterical that no matter how much black-and-white evidence is in their face, some Libtard ALWAYS comes to the defense of the "poor" criminals/terrorists. EVERY state and EVERY prison should practice the death penalty at least once a week. That would take care of the prison overcrowding problem, instead of letting them loose on American streets so they can commit more violent criminal activities.
I am sure the FBI would be willing to draw up some plans – if it would help.
Typical dance around the issue, then getting it wrong. You gave a complete description of what these clowns wanted to do and what they were hoping to accomplish. The, oh my god, the feds and local authorities stung them by providing the (fake) means. Even your own detailed description proves that this was not even close to legal entrapment. I am sure you got those other horror stories and drew your conclusion from the same far-left nuthouse that you used as your first set of sources. Did you hear the news that the FBI, CIA and Israel are entrapping Ahmanidejad into a plot to obliterate Israel?
Yea? The FBI had a lot of evidence against Randy Weaver. Remember him? Of course some of those FBI agants lied under oath. But then those agents also got away with murder, You are OK with those killers – right?
We might as well con them into destroying Candlestick Park out here. It's just an eyesore now. It's so bad that even the 49ers won't use it. The Giants already have their own ballpark and we can even walk to it if we choose. Candlestick is located about halfway to Los Angeles.
And Randy Weaver was found innocent after his Son and wife were murdered by the Feds – remember? Those murders of the innocent are fine with you right? So it is OK when the Feds do the murdering of innocent people and are never brought to justice, right?
In the immortal words of Richard Nixon, "I am not a terrorist lawyer." But I'm not so sure about Andrew Price.
Well, since I believe that the American Leauge is a blight on the face of the earth. I say New Yankee. Especially when Keith Olbermann is there. Blow him up too.
As everybody knows. Real baseball is played in the National leauge.
As a reds fan, I still have nightmares about west coast trips to 'the stick'. Listening at 1am in the morning (in lousiviille) and hear on the radio that they gave up a three run homer in the ninth.
OK, you've convinced me LawHawk. We'll do it at Candlestick.
Hmmmmm. I was thinking more along the lines of cement shoes/East River.
So, Randy Weaver is your trump card answer for everything?
other dude:
"Hey Want the truth, I the Pittsburgh Steelers are the best NFL franchise of all time"
Want the truth?
"Yea, well what about Randy Weaver? huh, huh, huh? That's why the Bears are better!"
Brilliant, man, just brillia
"You are OK with those killers – right?"
Yes. Yes I am.
Represent terrorists? Yeah, sure. . . if they want to plead guilty and ask for the death penalty.
I'm willing to wager a lot of money that the folks that actually own&operate the US prisons (that is a private enterprise in the US after all) would truly hate that idea.
I remember. What does it have to do with my comments to you? Only trolls and morons write a ridiculous response with an idiotic statement that ends with "and that's fine with you, right?" Go away, little troll. Take your meds. They are the ones with the red label and a hammer and sickle logo. Bye, bye.
In general, when prosecuting terrorists one does not want to show favoritism to one side or the other.
And judging from that Crooksandliars article the US justice system is going easy on domestic terrorists. Sort of like how the justice system of the Weimar republic went easy on nazi terrorists and how the justice system of the Netherlands was soft on leftwing would be terrorists in the 1980's and 1990's.
Not a healthy attitude.
Ah. You passed the test.
If you're entrapping scumbags who wishto kill Jews and American servicemen, what precisely is the problem?
all the naysayers who say these stings are nothing but entrapment. I wonder if they would have said the same thing about the 9/11 plot had it been stopped under Clinton's watch (Which never would or could have happened given their habit of ignoring things.
What does Randy Weaver have to do with this? I recall him being a white superiority extremist not a Muslim wannabe terrorist. What happened to his family was tragic. What happened to Weaver and his family is in no way shape or form like what happened with these four idiots in NY. At any point any or all of these guys could have backed out. They chose not to and a crime was committed. Maybe a good lawyer can get them off. Maybe not. The fact is they did plot to blow up synagogues and military aircraft. The FBI did not provide the plans to do this, only the (fake) means to do so after the plans had been made. Lives were saved, even if it was only the lives of the four wannabe terrorists that got caught.
So we have to let these morons blow something up and kill a bunch of people before we take them seriously? Seriously?
Mr. Price, OUTSTANDING! And by all means, please submit the bill for services rendered to the WH.
I guess the bombing bozos didn't get the message from Headquarters in Tora Bora –" COOL IT until we see if Obama will give us what we want without chancing stirring up the sleeping American people." The sad fact, is he probably will if they just give him time. Didn't Jimmy Carter? Hasn't he apologized all over South America and Europe for our existence? Isn't he comfortable living under Islamic law? Didn't he just saw he grew up in an Islamic country (Indonesia) and had no problem?
What surprised me is that he is also stupid enough to give a speech about closing Gitmo on the day these dodos were apprehended.
By the way, in case anyone knows, why the hell do we care if the Chinese off the Uigars (or however you spell it)?
I know we're the nanny state, the world's cops, the food provider forl the third world hungry, the responder to tsunamis and earthquakes, the health/medicine supplier of most of Africa, but when did we take on protecting other people's citizens from their governments when they, in fact, are anti their government?
Thanks oldsoldier, but I'll do that one for free.
And just in case no one has said it on this Memorial Day, thanks for serving this great country!
Ah yes the truth. Before we let this incident go away, remember this. The master brains that took dow the WTC were suprised that it actually fell. They were expected a good fire apparently but nothing like what happened.
Such are the nuances of unintended consequences.
If we listen to the ACLU, we will wait for more WTC type disasters.
Correct as usual. This apology thing is working so well for BO like in GITMO, N Korea, Iran, Palestine and so forth.
Perhaps he can franchise the method and sell it at night on the shopping channel.
You are right. IF the FBI acted inproperly against RW, then it PROVES that they ALWAYS act inproperly.
That is find logic you have going there.
Thanks – keep 'em flying!
dave
The murderers went to the same Madrassa that he did……
You must understand that this is a sensitive issue for him …..
You know something your response is one of the most ironic that you could have possibly written for reasons I won't share.
It's kinda like the Chewbacca defense on South Park only more retarded……..
AP and LawhawkSF could porobably better explain the legal nuances
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