Everybody Lay Off Tom Shillue!
by Dave Konig
I like him. And yes, he is funny. If you’re irritated with him for his most recent column defending Janeane Garofalo, you’re going to have to take my word for it.
Tom posted a column the other day about Garofalo. It was shocking, controversial, outrageous – and maybe a little misunderstood. Tom’s point was essentially this: why get mad at Janeane Garofalo for saying on TV what every liberal already thinks, that anyone who opposes Barack Obama’s policies is only doing so because they are – wait for it! – racist? Getting outraged at liberals who think Republicans are racist is pretty much the equivalent of (God help me as I reach for the most tired, over-used, movie metaphor in the columnist’s bag o’ tricks…) Captain Renault being – wait for it! – shocked, shocked that there was gambling going on in the back of Rick’s Café.
Of course Janeane Garofalo thinks we are all racists! So does every other liberal politico, pundit, thinker, speaker – and your liberal next door neighbor, sister-in-law, and the liberal guy who works at the grocery store and puts your conservative loaf of bread at the bottom of your bag underneath all your conservative canned goods.
Forget redistribution of wealth. Forget expansion of government. Forget appeasement and capitulation to our enemies. Believe it or not, forget even abortion. All those are optional for the average liberal. Ideally, they want ‘em all, but depending on prevailing political conditions, they can live with getting some, not getting others for the time being.
But the one, constant, over-riding, fact of liberalism always and forever is this: you are a racist. And they’re not.
Trust me. You’re liberal sister-in-law may love you, she may thing you’re the greatest thing to ever happen to her sister (by the way, I’m talking metaphorically about your liberal sister-in-law, not mine – I’m pretty sure my liberal sister-in-law thinks I’m a putz), she may secretly wish she had gotten to you first (again, this is a metaphor, no basis whatsoever in reality in my life) – BUT. She thinks, deep down, you are a racist. And she ain’t.
She might not think you are a racist consciously. But, she knows darn well you are simply just not sensitive to the plight of (fill in the blank, anything but white men) the way she is.
There are no exceptions to this rule. This is, in essence, what it means to be a liberal. James Carville thinks Mary Matalin is a racist. Oh, he loves her. He’s glad he married her. He’s probably a wonderful and supportive husband to her. He does the dishes, he remembers their anniversary, he sends her the occasional playful, romantic text message. But in his heart he knows: my poor wife, she just doesn’t understand the plight of the (fill in the blank) like I do!
Here’s the difference between liberals and everyone else in a nutshell. My wife and I have a good, liberal friend. Let’s call her “Myrtle.” Myrtle is not her real name. (Actually, Myrtle is not anyone’s real name anymore, but I digress.) Myrtle is a good Upper West Side, Sunday Times, Zabar’s coffee, H & H Bagels liberal. (Those of you outside of New York won’t get these references, but you get the idea.)
Myrtle never fails to teach her children, at every conceivable opportunity, that we must be inclusive of our fellow Earthlings, regardless of race, disability, weight. She is constantly reminding them that racism exists, racism is wrong, racism is pervasive, racism is bad. She constantly reminds her children that this country still has a long, long way to go to deliver on Dr. King’s dream. Myrtle is a good liberal. Her children are growing up believing that men with hooded sheets are burning crosses around every corner.
Then, there’s my wife and I. We’ve had a few discussions with the kids over the years about the history of racism in America. Most of these discussions tend to center around Jackie Robinson and Branch Rickey. All of these discussions have addressed the issues of slavery, Jim Crow, voter’s rights, bigotry head on – but always with the acknowledgement that “that was, sadly, the way it was – but that’s not the way it is now.”
Result? Our neighbors down the block, Tom and Bridget are white. They have two adopted sons, Tim and Joe, who are black. Our eldest son has played with their boys for years. Once, when our eldest was ten, he was talking with my wife about Tim. My wife made some reference to Tim being adopted. Our son was stunned. “Tim’s adopted?”
No, our son is not a dumb kid! It’s just that, like most conservatives, he judges people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. He’s not obsessed with race, racism, dividing people up by race, the way liberals are. Like Janeane Garofalo.
So don’t let Janeane Garofalo rock your world. As Tom Shillue pointed out, she’s only saying what every single liberal in America believes. The best response is to pat her on the head, say something soothing like “There, there, that’s nice, you put all those words together into a complete sentence” and go about the rest of your day. Because when it comes to liberals thinking conservatives are all racist, Janeane has plenty of company.
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144 Comments
If you simply admit you are a racist, it kind of takes the power away from these arrogant libs. yes, I am so, now, your point is what?
It is kind of like coming out of the closet. It worked for the gays, lets try it.
I wasn't offended by Tom, I just thought he was naive. But this defense, this is. . . stupid. So because these idiots suffer from bias, we should just ignore it and laugh it off. Yeah, great idea — way to change the world Dave.
Oh look, they're taking another J ew away. Gee, wouldn't want to complain about the Nazis. . . they might be offended that I'm offended, and after all, it's not the Nazis fault — they all think like that.
I love this (alleged) comedian incest fest. The first douche failed at defending Garafolo… so take two.
There appears to be something about these low rent comedians that makes their comic bonds stronger than their political/philosophical ones. Exhibit Dennis Miller. Miller assumes conservative positions on his low-rated radio talk show, yet still defends dimwit, pechulant, caustic gnomes Bill Maher and Jon Stewart at every opportunity. This is the reason Sean Hannity considers Miller an opportunist phony.
Take these hacks (Konig and Shillue) for what they're worth. They're defending their livilihood, not an ideology. Eff them both. Defending Garafolo??? Really??? I would have hoped Big Hollywood is better than this.
Dave, I WILL take your word for it.
I don't have any idea what Garofalo is like in real life other than what I see and hear of her "punditry." I think if I met her, and politics not be mentioned, I'd probably like her too. I adored her in Mystery Men, and I used to enjoy her comedy.
Unfortunately, she has a job that depends on people paying to see her work. Her job when acting depends on being believable to the audience. When people like that (liberals) start talking publicly the way she's talking, well, that kills any chance of at least half her audience forgetting the actress and focusing on the character. It's a huge freaking distraction and it kills the project that they are working on. She's a big reason why I'm not watching 24 this season. It's like her 'punditry' gives off this miasma that infects and pollutes the entire show (for me). Maybe that's my own problem, but that's the way it is.
In the same way, I can't listen to Linda Ronstadt any more. The woman sings like an angel, and I had a bunch of her albums when I was younger. Then she comes out and said she can't enjoy her concerts if she learns there is a conservative in the audience. I don't know why, but that hurt. Then it pissed me off. So I'm doing the favor of never ever listening to her sing again. I'm sure that thought would make her smile.
This is a danger all performers who depend on people paying to see them face when they decide to get politically active. Whatever they think, they're going to wind up potentially pissing off half their audience, and that can't be good for their and their employers' bottom line.
And while we're talking about politically active celebrities, could someone please explain to me exactly why Perez Hilton is a celebrity? What does he DO, exactly?
Part of the problem is that JG voicing the opinion helps to legitimize it. Johnny Lib thinks to himself, "I hate all those redneck racist bastards, but I probably shouldn't let everyone know that's how I feel. Oh wait, Jeneane Garafalo feels the same way, and said so on MSNBC and not in her outrageous comedy act- I guess I can say it too!"
Coming out of the closet only empowered gays because they were admitting what was true. Why the hell would I pretend to be racist if I'm not? I can think of nothing that would de-legitimize my opinion faster.
Dave and Tom,
Both of your arguments are intellectually dishonest. This has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with the cheapening of the word. Words mean something (or at least use to). If you what to go along with dishonest definitions of the words we use today then there is no need for discussions any longer. Where will that get us. Do you just want the language to go along the line of "Feelings" or "Happiness".
If so, enjoy your new world without "Wisdom".
I used to think she was funny. She's not funny any more and hasn't been for a while because I know for certain that I'm not a real person to her. Next time Shillue gets to talk to her he should tell her that. She is no longer funny because *I'm* not real to her.
And even if she isn't a politician, she has set herself up to be a liberal pundit of sorts… or was that Air America gig all in my imagination?
She may not have changed much, and it's too bad, because she used to be funny and now she's not.
"As Tom Shillue pointed out, she’s only saying what every single liberal in America believes. The best response is to pat her on the head, say something soothing like “There, there, that’s nice, you put all those words together into a complete sentence” and go about the rest of your day. Because when it comes to liberals thinking conservatives are all racist, Janeane has plenty of company."
So all liberals hate conservatives because they (falsely) believe we are all racists. And your solution is to not respond – to let them convince everyone that their lie is the truth?
Please correct me if I mischaracterize your "arguement".
this is what shillue and konig are suggesting. I will not concede an untrue point. they aren't sophisticaed enough to realize you are trying to move the conversation along. If you give in on this they've already won, they have you and can dismiss you outright.
It it time to stand strong and quit being the shrinking violet
this is what shillue and konig are suggesting. I will not concede an untrue point. they aren't sophisticaed enough to realize you are trying to move the conversation along. If you give in on this they've already won, they have you and can dismiss you outright.
It it time to stand strong and quit being the shrinking violet
This is so true. (And I didn't watch 24 anyway, so…)
It goes both ways for certain. Any of us who intend to have something called an "audience" ought to keep in mind that cutting that audience by 50% isn't particularly smart.
Get off'a my lawn, both of ya dang kids, and take your little girlfriend with you!
Get off'a my lawn, both of ya dang kids, and take your little girlfriend with you!
Did you have to say that about Linda Ronstadt? Now I'm never going to be able to listen to her music the same again. Rats.
Shillue and Konig may be on our side, but they're too dim to recognize what's going on. Try the roast beef and tip your waitresses… but leave the political talk to the adults. I'm offended these two dullards got published on this site.
I hope you're happy. You've just pushed Lawhawk over the edge. His blood is on your hands.
My last word before never speaking the name Garafolo again. She probably is funny and intelligent.. I liked Elaine Boosler and Bill Maher too. Then they got not only political, but angry political. That kills the funny and in Garafolo's case, made her seem stupid too.
I'm done, check please.
It strikes me as Chamberlainian. Just appeasement. Sad they have no fight left in them.
You didn't mischaracterize it. But you did misspell it!
Yeah, that's basically what I'm saying. I'm saying that the argument put forth by Janeanne Garafalo – that anyone who opposes Barack Obama's policies is only doing so because they are racist is (a) mind numbingly dumb, and (b) sadly, what every liberal on the planet earth believes, that it is simply not worthy of rebuttal. Debate ideas, positions, programs – but debate dumb insults made by actors? Why? What do you say to that? "No, Janeanne you're wrong, I am not a racist! Some of my best friends are (fill in the blank)". It's the same as responding to someone who asks "When did you stop beating your wife?"
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying! I would no sooner debate, or get worked up about, some actress saying all conservatives are racists as I would if she said all conservatives are shoplifters…or all conservatives are kidnappers. It's so dumb, personally, I would just roll my eyes and give her a nice, friendly "whatever Janeanne". Same goes for Sean Penn.
Same goes for you, Dave. Stop writing and let real conservatives be heard.
That's what's rubbing me wrong about this defense of Garafalo and other liberals too. "They all think we're racists. Better not do or say anything to change that opinion of us, despite the fact that it's a huge distortion of the truth." When that claim is made and there is no rebuttal made against the claim, people automatically assume the claim is true by default.
My whole problem with the issue is you've got a bunch of people protesting saying, "Y'know, I really don't appreciate the government's profligate spending and forcing me and future generations into debt slavery. I would really like it if they reigned in some of their spending while letting me keep more of my own money." And geniuses like Garafalo come in screaming 'RACIST!' It's a logical fallacy, a strawman argument and a personal attack. She can't find a way to disagree with what's being protested at the parties, so she lobs the racist grenade and makes snide remarks about teabagging. (cont)
(cont) What's wrong with wanting to point out the logical inconsistencies and fallacies she's making by trying to hijack the argument through false claims of racism and taking the focus off of what's really being protested? Because now the argument isn't about government taxation, it's about whether or not we're racists. We shouldn't have to put up with that crap, and ignoring or appeasing them certainly won't the problem go away.
When that racist claim is made and there is no rebuttal made against the claim, people automatically assume the claim is true by default.
My whole problem is you've got a bunch of people saying, "I really don't like the government's profligate spending and forcing me and future generations into debt slavery." And Garafalo comes in screaming 'RACIST!' with no provocation. It's a logical fallacy, a strawman argument and a personal attack. She can't find a way to disagree with what's being protested, so she lobs the racist grenade.
What's wrong with wanting to point out the logical fallacies she's making by trying to hijack the argument through false claims of racism and taking the focus off of what's really being protested? Because now the argument isn't about government taxation, it's about whether or not we're racists. We shouldn't have to put up with that crap, and ignoring or appeasing them certainly won't make the problem go away.
Tom stepped in a minefield. He's seems like a good guy but he is naive, and so are you. The feelings are very acute right now that making nice with people who insult us doesn't work. That has been more than proven over this last election cycle, and in case you didn't know is one of the central debates going on in the Republican party.This is why his post got over 400 negative responses. I am heartened that so many share my views.
But you are wrong in thinking these default leftists and active leftists are genuine in their own beliefs and in their beliefs about our beliefs. They use the racism charge to shut down the debate. And why do they believe all this nonsense anyway? Because they have managed to bully us, and we have allowed it. These false charges influence our behavior, and the fact that Tom told Garafalo he was "kinda right wing" says it all. He is intimidated by her and her ilk.
However I do understand. I work with a lot of lefties and I pick my battles too, but in the abstract this is a huge problem for us. No one said to Tom, "you have to tell that b*tch to stuff it" to her face in a work environment or anywhere else. But people did object to his defending her as a basically normal nice person when she isn't calling whole groups of people racists with no evidence. She also called us "teabagging rednecks" which is fairly insulting on many levels.
We just spent 8 years with Bush allowing the Garafalos of the world to call him every name in the book. He certainly took YOUR and Toms approach, and I don't have time right now to go into the negative consequences his failure to defend himself and his administration got him – and worse, US!
This is a failed strategy and obviously most people here agree.
I, for one, think both of these columns were good, even if I can't get behind either 100%.
A lot of liberals, perhaps even most, do think anyone to the right of them is racist. We need to understand that. The fact that they think that because they live in a world of their own imagination is largely beside the point.
How to handle it is up to the individual. If it's a liberal of my acquaintance who says something so stupid and bigoted, I usually start by listing all of the conservatives that they know, and asking if they think that person is a racist, and if so, why. I might then ask which policy positions held by conservatives are racist, and if so, why.
If you want to be argumentative, that's your right, and I've done it before. But there's nothing wrong with deciding not to bother because it really isn't worth the hassle of arguing with true believers, which is what Mr. Konig is saying, and saving your debating energy for those you have a chance of persuading, which is what I think he is implying.
There are lots of people here who post here regularly and ask us, "please don't feed the trolls." Am I misreading the post, or isn't that exactly what Mr. Konig is saying, only in the context of the larger world?
I, for one, think both of these columns were good, even if I can't get behind either 100%.
A lot of liberals, perhaps even most, do think anyone to the right of them is racist. We need to understand that. The fact that they think that because they live in a world of their own imagination is largely beside the point.
How to handle it is up to the individual. If it's a liberal of my acquaintance who says something so stupid and bigoted, I usually start by listing all of the conservatives that they know, and asking if they think that person is a racist, and if so, why. I might then ask which policy positions held by conservatives are racist, and if so, why.
If you want to be argumentative, that's your right, and I've done it before. But there's nothing wrong with deciding not to bother because it really isn't worth the hassle of arguing with true believers, which is what Mr. Konig is saying, and saving your debating energy for those you have a chance of persuading, which is what I think he is implying.
There are lots of people here who post here regularly and ask us, "please don't feed the trolls." Am I misreading the post, or isn't that exactly what Mr. Konig is saying, only in the context of the larger world?
Wrong.
Leaving the charge "you're a racist" go unchallenged is in many observers' eyes a tacit admission of the charge.
Are you a racist?
Why, next the left will start calling people nazis!! (Oh wait, they do that all the time too…)
Are you a nazi?
No, them's true fightin' words, and it's long since passed the time when folks call these idiots on their slanderous bullying.
Okay Dave,
I’m taking issue with you. Liberals are the ones scared of the wrong color people, they profile, they move off the side of the road etc. In some case these things are justified. If you see someone with an MS13 gang tattoo you had better consider them dangerous. But by the same token you'd better do the same for a Biker with a Skull and Crossed Pistons (Outlaws MC).
They believe it is ingrained in them as well. They assume that "They" are not racists because they support government “help” for minorities who they assume cannot do with “Their” help. This is being "Fair". It is actually condescending bigotry. It is worse than the Klan. Klansmen admit to what Tools they are. Liberals mask their bigotry in sweetmeats and spices and hide what they are doing. (Part I)
groovy album cover.
The "argument" is only about whether or not we are racists if you argue the point, which is inarguable because the point is pointless. There's a difference between deflecting an idiotic point and getting the debate back on track, and getting mired in arguing an idiotic point. In this case, the former is as pointless as the latter – why would you want to debate with someone who thinks you are a racist in the first place?
Read Thomas Sewell's book "Visions of the Anointed" and you will see what type of damage this causes. So all liberals all think like this. Well that makes the matter worse. We have call them out for the condescension to minorities and the damage it does. Get right back in their face because they are the bad ones on this issue. (Fin)
Two intellectually bankrupt defenses of JG in the span of a couple of days. You guys need to realize, we're not "shocked" at what she says. We're disgusted. And the middle-school though process that says, Hey, all liberals do it" makes no sense.
This was an epic fail. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't really believe what you wrote. You're just protecting a friend who's trying to get laid.
Right here on BIG HOLLYWOOD, Tom Shillue attempted a noble defense of Ms. Garofalo. I had no choice but to take him behind the woodshed for some corrective social instruction:
"Tom, I can only assume that you were recently transported from a mission in deep space …"
Yeah, the whole thing is here:
http://novus2.com/wordpress/?p=4002
OK, they throw that grenade and you say, "You know what, I'm not even going to argue that with you." They'll simply reply, "See, you really are a racist, since you don't deny it."
Anyone watching or listening to that debate will know who the intellectual two-year-old is. Unfortunately (and call me a cynic) I don't have a ton of faith in the general American public right now to recognize that. They simply see a non-response to the charge of racism as admitting being a racist.
I'm arguing that she should be lambasted for even daring to make that illogical leap in the first place. It does nothing for debate except side track it with a pointless issue. She shouldn't simply be ignored, because what's she going to do next time? Lob the racism grenade. Worked last time and every other time. When are we going to say enough is enough and not allow them to hijack the argument that way anymore?
Sorry my friend…Sowell.
Dude, I'm so sorry. I know, I wish I didn't know that either, I used to love her music too.
"As Tom Shillue pointed out, she’s only saying what every single liberal in America believes. "
Then every single liberal in America is a deluded ass, up to and including the aging would be hipster from suburban New Jersey that is causing all this sturm und drang.
I am a white conservative. I am married to a beautiful black woman. We have experienced racism from white and black alike, in ways both subtle and jarring- but we have experienced it by far the most from white, so called "liberals".
As such, from where I'm standing, janean god awful ho and kweef the ag school cow tipper are by definition the "straight up racists" in this discussion- no matter how charming one finds this clapped out hag to be over beers.
Next?
There is a problem though in trying to discuss it with them. I have better luck explaining a C compiler to my cat. They don't care. They don't want to listen, what's left of their minds is already made up.
I'm waiting for the Big O to do what he promised and bring the country together. Or did I misunderstand him – he's only bringing the LEFTIES together, more tightly organized.
Tom might as well have just gargled Garafalo's nuts. He's the kind of b*tch we don't need on our side. Ditto Konig.
You miss the point. You were not having a "debate", argumentative, civilized or WWE style Drag out with Janaene Garafalo. Nor was any other conservative (I assume you are since you mark liberals as them. )
Instead watched it on PJTV since MSLSD is a laugh. The 'tard liberal stood up and branded all of us as a racist in horrific insulting language. Now, we know she is full of it but for others there is no voice from the other side to DISPUTE this. Thus this along with the 50 other unanswered jabs becomes the "conventional" wisdom.
BY NOT SLAMMING BACK AS GOOD as WE GET, THIS BECOMES A REALITY in the myth of popular culture. No Garage Full of Low-lying Fruit comediAnnie is a hose bag and it is our job to ridicule, to mock, to shout our outrage and to give it back so that at least no one can say.
"Of course the Conservatives don't say anything because they know it true and can't."
I know it's a lie and I can say and I Will and low-lying fruit lady can STUFF IT.
Yes, I can understand taking the moral high ground in some instances. I can also understand where you're coming from in regards to picking and choosing your battles carefully. Sometimes, it really isn't worth the effort to argue with the true believers, as you say.
I think what both Shillue and Konig are trying to say is summed up in that old phrase, "Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." AKA "Don't Feed The Troll."
But we can't just sit back and be content with them lobbing the racist grenade anymore and hijacking any and every debate just by making the blanket 'racist' statement when they have nothing left to argue. Such childish antics allow them to characterize and define the argument, and they simply can't be tolerated anymore. If we keep letting them get away with it, they'll do it everytime and continue to do so because it's the easy way out while being extremely effective. If we stop letting it be the easy way out, they'll stop doing it.
Are both of you gentleman(Konig/Shillue) into S&M? Why else would you take this beating defending this swamp rat, Garafalo? You like taking beatings, now don't you? Come on you'll feel better if you admit it. I bet she(Garofalo)swings a mean whip, doesn't she??!!
Exactly! I'm not taking it any more. I will call BS every time. If we don't call BS then we are helping, as you said, legitimize it.
Brings to mind the old saying: with friends like these I don't need enemies. Or, wake up and smell my finger ya dingbat. How about: these two blind squirrels couldn't find their nuts with all four hands and a ball busting moonbat planting her Doc Martins in their groins. Face it Dave the appeasement doctrine does not work with liberals. And it just makes us angrier when it's tried.
Shillue and Konig are exemplifying the whole reason for the existence of Big Hollywood. Neither has big name recognition the way Garofalo does (or did, to be more accurate) so they toe the line just to stay in business.
That Garofalo creature is obscene; look at her comments aside from the "racist" part. She thinks all conservatives have real physiological mental deficiencies. She thinks conservatives are built wrong, like a lemon of a car.
Because of this she deserves no quarter at BH, especially from people who are so-called conservatives.
I'm a liberal. I believe there are many conservatives who are liars who manufacture outrage. I know some of them are also racists.
However, I don't believe that all conservatives are racists.
In fact, I doubt there's a meaningful correlation between political ideology and racism. Liberals aren't necessarily free of racism themselves. Additionally, some of them manufacture outrage, take quotes and deeds out of context to make their opponents look bad, and lie.
I agree with you about the utter vapidness that is Garafalo. She's completely irrelevant and responding to her (other than to point out what a disingenuous dufus she is) is a waste of time. My problem with Tom's column was talking about how decent she was in person. I don't associate with racists or bigots, and am not a big fan of people who do, then defend them. We need to get to the point in society where bigots are avoided, not coddled. It's like being friends with some guy who beats his wife because, "He's never done anything to me…"
"They simply see a non-response to the charge of racism as admitting being a racist. "
I see that as well.
If enough people tell you you are wrong, I'm talking to you JG, you just might take a moment t to ask why. Not that I expect her to, but maybe someone who listens to her will and that is a win in my book.
Yes indeed, let's silence anyone who disagrees with you. After all, you're the arbiter of what defines Conservatism, right?
"No, our son is not a dumb kid! It’s just that, like most conservatives, he judges people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. He’s not obsessed with race, racism, dividing people up by race, the way liberals are. Like Janeane Garofalo."
I live in a semi-rural area. My boys attend an elementary school a few miles away, that is mostly composed of the minorities that live in our area. There are only three “white kids” in each of their classes of 25 students or more. Everyone gets along great with each other.
At least once a week, and during the weekends, my guys have a bunch of their best friends come over to my place to play together. All of them are “kids of color” in one way or another. (Besides my boy’s, not a white kid in the house). My refrigerator and pantry’s are always full of tasty and healthy vittels, and I give them free reign to “raid” them whenever they’re hungry, without them having to ask my “permission” every time.
I’ve met their parents, and every one of them voted for the “One.”
I don’t hold that against their kids. Unlike the liberal parents that hold it against me for being an out spoken conservative.
I’ll bring the adults over to the “right” side sooner, or later, by my actions, by showing respect to them and their kids.
Show them the content of your character, and not make the color of your skin the “litmus test” Janeane.
Not Over.
My comment went into moderation. I don't know why, so here goes again –
I understand what you are saying, but like with Mr. Shillue, I respectfully disagree. We cannot continue to let these invectives go unchallenged. I have an idea, Dave. Why don't you invite Ms. Garafalo to our next tea party. Then we can collectively roll our eyes at her. Until such a time that I am within eyerolling distance of her, I will continue to speak my mind when and where I choose. If she can't take it, then she should learn to keep her mouth shut.
Dave,
You believe JG is a liberal, good for you. Pat her on the head, tell her something soothing and send her on her merry way.
I believe JG is a leftist, who is reckless and doing a lot of damage of late. I'd prefer to give her a swift boot in the arse and tell her to STFU.
There are a few differences between liberals and leftists (stay tuned/part two)
Liberals Leftists
show compassion are deceitful
willing to try a different approach want to replace the system
believe in fair play hide the truth
honest disagreement crushing dissent
believe 'you may have a point' believes 'there are no other points only his/hers'
well, I was joking of course. However, it would be fun to see how the libs react, if you simply tell them you ARE the boggie man. I like to poke.
Sorry, dividing of my comments is creating a slight problem…I have a few others, done for now . Hopefully you get the picture.
I've been thinking a bit about this, and maybe I'm approaching this all wrong. Shouldn't the burden of proof be on JG and anyone else making these baseless claims of racism? Why should we be on the defensive proving we're NOT racists?
If I make an outrageous claim (9/11 was an inside job, the moon landings were faked) it's up to me to prove that what I say is true. Likewise, they're the one's casually accusing us of racism. Where's their proof?
Perhaps the next time someone I'm arguing with trots that attack out there, I'll say, "Prove it. Show me where in my argument I expressly said I would prefer more limitied government because I hate a black man in charge."
Of course, I'll probably get some response about how I used code words and am guilty of institutional or subconscious racism. Because God knows my opponent knows what I'm thinking better than I do.
Dave (and Tom),
To take a page from another leftist comedian who I'm sure you'd be just as quick to defend:
NEW RULE: Would the "conservative" comedians who contribute to Big Hollywood PLEASE stop attempting to tell us what to think. I will confront and "lay off" whomever I choose, whenever I choose.Your overly verbose attempts to defend the indefensible seem to be wearing VERY thin around here.
I was never a huge fan of Julia Roberts, but when she tried to be clever with her Republicans are between reptile and repugnant in the dictionary… I was done.
I think what you (and Dave and Tom) are thinking is that those who are criticizing Ms. Garofalo are attempting to convince her that she is mistaken. It would be true that that would be a waste of time. But no one is trying to do that, only to respond to her ridiculous and slanderous charge.
The advice "don't feed the trolls" is generally good. But trolls are people who hijack internet threads with irrelevant and illogical outbursts in an attempt to derail the discussion. Ms. Garofalo isn't doing anything like that. Sadly, she and her ilk are the ones having the discussion. Opposing views are not required.
Therefore, in a sense we're the trolls. We should strive to keep our outbursts both relevant and logical, of course, but our purpose should certainly be to derail their discussion. That's what William F. Buckley, Jr. meant by "standing athwart history yelling, "stop!"
Agreed.
Dave, respectfully, this is why conservatives are losing the idealogical battle with the left. Because we are asked by those with a larger pulpit than we have: "Why get mad that she said what everybody else on the left already thinks?"
The answer sir, is that people in a position to lead, don't. That's you right now… by the way. You have a powerful forum here to use. You tell us to pat her on the head "and go on with the rest of our day"
Complacency is acceptance, and acceptance means nobody will ever change their opinion of a falsehood. They will believe something to be a fact – - when indeed it is not.
And that, to both you Dave, and to Tom – is why you are both on the wrong side of this debate.
"Old guy walking here"
For over 40 years conservatives have shrugged their shoulders, looked the other way and said, “Well, that’s just stupid and wrong, but I’ll take the “high road” and not lower myself to their level by saying anything”. Damn people, that’s worked out real well now hasn’t it?
Like others have said here, and on other threads, it’s time to call BS every time this liberal slandering of my conservative ideals get attacked.
The days of us sitting on our asses and doing nothing to defend our ideals OUR OVER.
For over 40 years the lids have been “drawing first blood” constantly, and it’s time to call them all on their BS. Every word out of their mouths will be challenged, every sentence that they write will be challenged, every action that they take, will be challenged…at least by me.
“Change” has come to our nation. The libtards are now in charge…and it’s our fault, for being the tolerant, apathetic and silent majority that we’ve become.
Time to throw some ice water in your faces and see the road we’re all being dragged down. The game has “changed.” Our future, and the future of our liberty is at stake. In less than 100 days, the 232 years of our freedom is in real jeopardy.
Not Over.
When the troll has a TV audience it's kind of hard not say something. The fact is, not saying anything is sometimes the same as confirming a statement, and Garofolo's assertion could not go without a rebuttal.
What has this woman got on you guys? Seriously. I can't fathom why you would defend a single hair on her head. Unless you're not really conservatives and have, perhaps, a bit of sympathy with her position. I think that's why the backlash– we're not feeling the conservative love here.
Sorry, I can't come to Ms. Intellect's defense. Her blathering diatribes blaming all the evils in the world on conservatives are merely a projection of the deep seated racial hatred she has for other races. Why else would she constantly reiterate her groundless, baseless, hate filled, foaming-at-the-mouth rants?
And personally I hope she does for MSNBC (The only people stupid enough to book her as a guest) what she did to Err America (the only people stupid enough to hire her as a what ever it is she claimed to be).
I am 51 yrs. old. grew up in an Italian/black neighborhood in a close suburb of NYC. you could reasonably call it a ghetto. Dad & Mom worked hard & moved us out when I was 13 to a more affluent northern suburb of NYC. Iwent to school at a small liberal arts college in PA. I have always had lots of friends (Afro-American, Puerto Rican, Haitian) who are of minority extraction. Living in NY, i have always had many, many white liberal friends too. And i have come to one conclusion: liberals are AFRAID of minorities. Yep I said it. Liberals have a deep abiding fear of minorities. When I lived n Memphis, TN in the early '80's a white Memphian, who was a bigot told me "Down here we don't care how close they (black folks) get, as long as they don't get too high, up north, you folks don't care how high they get, as long as they don't get too close."
And it's true. I never saw any of my liberal friends demonstrate any real friendship to our black schoolmates or teammates. They of course were polite, cordial & obsequiously respectful, because they believed if they weren't they'd get their asses kicked. My black teammates were always welcome around my father's table, and I learned a lot about what real soul food was at the tables of my teammtes and other schoolmates before I ever went down south. It is the liberals who foster "tokenism" and the liberals who refuse the "content of one's charachter" argument. My ex-wife's family is as liberal as they come, and not one of them, ever had a black friend. In fact, my ex told me that the one time she had a black friend who happened to be a boy, she got this stern worried lecture from her father about different cultures etc. He had 'Mandingo" fear written all over him. And he describes himself as a "proud liberal who never once voted for any Republican."
Liberals never truly extend the hand of brotherhood to black folks or any minority. Because they truly fear what they don't, and refuse to know. So in order to pre-empt the charge of rascism being thrown at them, they toss the bomb first. Malcolm X had greater contempt for 'Northern liberals" than any other group. Look it up.
Mr. Shillue and Mr. Konig's arguments are not quite solid. They seem to mean that, "All liberals think all conservatives are racist, thus we should ignore them because all liberals think all conservatives are racist." Thus because it is in their natures we must accept their flagrant hurling of the charge of racism at every opportunity that suits their whims. If you'll pardon me saying so, that's very liberal of them. It's akin to forgiving European racism or Middle Eastern anti-Semitism because, "That's they way they are [over there]." Again, it's a very liberal position in contrast to the system of absolute truths and values conservatives tend to hold to. It also has some huge and negative consequences.
Now Tom and Dave rightfully want to to delegitimize this common liberal charge by ignoring and marginalizing it as a charge and not an argument. As an allegation, the liberal bears the burden to prove that the charge is true, conservatives do not bear the burden to refute the allegation with an argument. One is "innocent until proven guilty." I suspect this is Tom and Dave's point, really. (If it's not, it should be since this argument is stronger than the one they put forth.) That as in court, charges can be brought against you, but if the prosecution cannot provide sufficient evidence, the charges are dismissed.
Unfortunately, as many people know, having charges brought against you is frequently enough to destroy your career and life. Even if the charges are dismissed, you're not "guilty" but you're not quite "not guilty" either. The charges on your criminal record. "You can't unring the bell" as Sarah Palin said in her interview with John Ziegler. Once the charge is there, it sticks in peoples' minds. (Liberals, at least the bigwigs, know this and they did this to Palin with effect and impunity during the election.)
More to our particular point here on BH is that a climate permitting the repeated bringing of false charges against someone or a group is bad for a cultural dialogue. These wanton accusations of "Racism!" with people running around flippantly hurling egregious charges at one another without base or provocation, poison the cultural ethos. It is this "soft defamation" that has poisoned our national dialogue. In exonerating liberals from the burden of proof for proving conservatives are racists, what have we gotten ourselves? We've gotten a cultural ethos where it's not proven, yet simply understood. The charge is enough now.
We have, in our silence, 1) been perceived to consent to the charges, 2) allowed the flippant hurling of the charge of racism in our cultural dialogue, and 3) allowed the flippant hurling of any baseless charge.
Now I don't think Tom and Dave are secretly liberals or bad conservatives or bad Americans. Two of our greatest statesmen and thinkers were Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, both men "for Independence" and of great and many opinions. They were also quiet men in Congress, disinclined to disagree. Yet much as I admire them, we would not be America if John Adams hadn't gotten out of his chair and vigorously defended his values, our values. He demonstrated that silence is not part of the democratic process. To me, that's what Big Hollywood is about.
P.S., this is a great community all, and this is my first post here although I read daily and was a "lurker" at "Dirty Harry's Place." So "hello!"
Oh, please, no one's shocked she thinks conservatives are racists. We're just dismayed that she can get away with saying it so easily.
Oh, please, no one's shocked she thinks conservatives are racists. We're just dismayed that she can get away with saying it so easily.
I disagree. I think conservatives have been doing just that, allowing liberals to define them without fighting back. It is not time to shrink away and laugh it off, but call them out. Andrew has pointed out that conservatives have not been engaged in the culture and we see the result with the over-the-top liberal "values" of Hollywood. Government and higher education also skews left.
With Tom, he seemed like he was being nice to someone who would never defend him (she would instead use him as an example of the ignorant Republican). That was the reason for my response.
So, to be clear, if I abandon my principles and defend someone who called most of the people on this site racists, can I too have a blog at BH?
[...] American Idol on LJ. put an intriguing blog post on Everybody Lay Off Tom Shillue!Here’s a quick excerptI like him. And yes, he is funny. If you’re irritated with him for his most recent column defending Janeane Garofalo, you’re going to have to take my word for it. Tom posted a column the other day about Garofalo. It was shocking, controversial, outrageous – and maybe a little misunderstood…. [...]
Stop defending the bigot unless you are willing to give all bigots a pass on the grounds that they are just saying what a lot of other people are thinking.
I think it's Stockholm Syndrome.
I appreciate what Mr. Shillue was saying – that liberals think that way. I can appreciate that Garofalo's candor is good. It's like shining a light on a cockroach. I can also appreciate what is being said by Mr. Konig, but why should her comments go unchallenged? If I came face to face with someone who generalized me into being a racist, I would confront those words and have her account for it.
Both men are entitled to their opinion, but I'm tired of having someone else's opinion being shouted in my face. Garofalo is just the cockroach of the day.
Shame on Mr. Shillue's cowardice and shame on Mr. Konig for defending it.
I wasn't angry at Tom for his column (after all WE are the true tolerant ones – I was a bit bemused by it though. Personally I couldn't care less whether Garafolo is the most leftist individual in Hollywood (no mean feat), or she belongs to a group that advocates sex with farm animals (It wouldn't surprise me if such a group exists) – it is her constant denigration of those who disagree with her – a peculiar stance since her business depends on an audience and one would think common sense would dictate not insulting half of her potential audience.
Which tells you what she thinks of her audience.
That, as the sage once said, is the "crux of the biscuit".
I pretty much assumed Shillue was just trying to defend her thinking he would get into her pants.Guys do that sort of thing and give other guys a pass when they do it…S…
What happened to Lawhawk? Has anyone seen him? Should we call 911?
Whenever a liberal calls me a racist, my standard answer is "I'm not a racist, I'm a bigot, you moron". "I suggest that you learn the meaning of the words you enjoy throwing around". But then, these are the same people who have no idea who the vice president is.
The Tom & Dave show need to confine their Neo-Con local comedy shtick to The Village. Save the space on Big Hollywood for true Hollywood Conservative bloggers who would rather plow Garofalo with a tractor instead of "pat her on the head". This site is starting to sell out big time. Andrew and John, these two Huffington Post lurkers need to go!
I'm going to make one comment, and one comment only. Objection: "Asked and answered." "Dave, the objection is sustained, you are overruled, the court has made its decision. One more word about Garafolo and you will be found in contempt (although not as much contempt as we have for her)."
I disagree that we're losing the idealogical battle. We may be losing the cultural battle, but not the idealogical one.
I suppose I must come to the defense of Dave and Tom. You have to pick your battles. If you waste your time going after every dingbat the left has, you'll never get off Sunset Blvd let alone reach Pennsylvania Avenue. It becomes a question of tactics, as well as return for the effort you put in. If you choose to die on every hill, you'll never win the war.
This doesn't mean roll over; it means be smart in your response. Is it worth getting worked up over the rant of some bimbo who's name sounds like the noise you make when you drink too much Coors on taco night? Is the answer in the question?
Sorry, but I was a liberal democrat for virtually all of my life, was raised to be one, and only re-affiliated to independent last fall, when I realized that I could no longer deny that my party had left me. I didn't just become disgusted with Garofalo after her most recent tangent, but after listening to her mindless rants when she started being aired on AAR.
You're very wrong when you say that your average, next door type liberal neighbor thinks the same way Garofalo does. I attended a teaparty protest in Lansing, MI on the 15th, and there were a great many democrats and independents there, the crowd was at least 7,000 and I was making the rounds to specifically determine if my experience as a constituent of Senators Stabenow and Levin was shared. I met many dems and independents from all over the state, some had traveled in from Detroit, and there were black protesters as well as white in attendance, and all had the same gripes.
Garofaloo's inference that we were "redneck teabaggers" was disrespectful, as was her assertion that we didn't understand what the Boston teaparty was all about. The same woman who rushed to defend Johnny Depp's right to dissent, felt the need to insult our intelligence and rights to dissent, by playing a fascistic tactic, she sought to discredit us all, by demonizing and dehumanizing us. She exposed herself as a hypcorite, and she should be shamed for that. Tom shouldn't be running interference for her, we're not making false accusations against her, she brought it on herself.
We all were protesting the fact that we are being taxed, but denied representation, we're denied a voice at the decision making table, our so called senators and representatives are exploiting their positions, behaving in criminal ways, and violating our constitutional rights. Every person I spoke with said as much.
I think the Right does need to take offense at some of the inanities coming from the Left and when they get to the mean-spirited, nasty stage, we need to stand our ground and speak up. Conservatives, for whatever reason, have far too long cared about how they were viewd and depicted by Liberals and have rarely, if ever, spoken out in self-defense. That has to stop. When a Garofalo calls one of us a racist some sort of retort is called for. Otherwise we merely leave the playing fields in the hands of the Left and allow them to set the rules and then reset them as often as they want. President Bush was perhaps too much of a gentleman in that he seemed content to let the Left get away with lies, distortions and calumnies. Those days should be behind us.
I'm not sure that 's totally fair to them. I think they're probably honest in their conservatism, even if the first guy only said he was "kind of right wing." I think they're just trying to do it in what they see as a "smarter" way, picking their battles and not fighting on all fronts at once. That said, I think they both make a serious mistake in underestimating the effect people like this washed-up idiot have on the public. She might be a lewd, crude moron, but unfortunately she's a lewd, crude moron with a microphone, and if there's no rebuttal to her ignorance, people will take it down as the gospel truth. Therefore, she has to be opposed, and forcefully.
The JudgeHawk has spoken.
Pete, no one here is going after every liberal. As you say we have to pick our battles. That's what strategists do. They use the tactic of taking out enough of opposition leaders so the rest of their army scatters. While Janeane may not be considered a "leader" on the left, she certainly has the exposure. She makes herself a target.
I think Konig/Shillue have a point…IF it's true that all liberals think this way (or the vast majority, let's say). I've followed politics a long time, but I honestly didn't realize all liberals held this as a first principle. That's one reason I get outraged when somebody says it: it's such a baseless and untrue accusation I can't believe anyone actually believes it. Therefore, so my thinking goes, they must be saying it in bad faith. But if they actually, honestly DO believe it…well, that makes these people imbeciles to be pitied rather than attackers to be hated.
Still, I have my doubts whether so many people can really be that stupid. I can't help but tend to the view that there must be ill will and calculation involved.
Well said. On behalf of my fellow commenters here, welcome. When we're not being blasted as "bigoted, racist, homophobe, ne're do wells", we're a fun bunch… especially LawHawkSF and AndrewPrice. I've enjoyed/learned as much from them as I do any article ever posted here.
I guess I just find it hard to balance that concept with the level of vitriol being spit out against Dave and Tom. I mean, these comments read like they've come out for higher taxes, aborting babies, and surrendering to Iran. All for saying that Garafolo isn't a big deal, which is a statement everyone agrees with!
So JG makes herself a target, as you claim. That doesn't mean you should waste the ammo on her. Consider the big picture: if you take her out, what effect does that have? Seriously consider that! You're a conservative, damn it. You know how to think! You don't just vent your spleen at every person who insults you, and it sure as hell isn't productive to bash people like Tom and Dave who agree with your main philosophy simply because THEY have decided that a specific target YOU despise isn't worth responding to. Yet we've got supposedly reasonable people who are saying that these guys aren't conservative because they don't respond to Garafolo! WTF? How did *THAT* become the plank that defines our political philosophy?
In advertising, there are times when the client wants to totally dominate the ad creative and rewrite the copy so often it's no longer recognizable as the idea they bought. They use terminology they understand while completely ignoring why they hired the agency in the first place — to convince the customer to buy the product. We call this writing to impress themselves.
Tom wrote a piece, and Dave defended, that communicated the idea that the left thinks those on the right are all racists and it's a ridiculous point so the right shouldn't be upset, because the left thinks those on the right are all racists and it's a ridiculous point so the right shouldn't be upset, because the left thinks those on the right are all racists and it's a ridiculous point so the right shouldn't be upset… etc. ad nauseum.
As illustrated above, it's circular logic that feeds on itself. It is not linear reasoning and does not have a satisfying conclusion. Good intentions not withstanding, it comes across as writing to impress themselves.
Maybe I'm just more of an "in-your-face" debater with a longer track record than most, so I saw your point immediately. I do it differently, so it doesn't come off as an admission of anything, and I think that's what some of our friends misconstrued in your remark. I've been hit with the "you're a racist" argument-ender so often that I had to find a way to get past it while not falling into the trap of trying to argue that I'm not. So I start out with, "I know I'm not a racist, and so do you. So let's get past that right now and see if you actually have a point to make or are just afraid that you can't make a genuine argument." The onus is now on them to make a point, or skulk away as an admission that "you're a racist" isn't a valid argument in the first place.
Mrs. Spooky, you ask why Perez Hilton is famous, I assume that's rhetorical? He is much beloved/feared/hated by the left, for his horrible website. He has a huge Gay Mafia, and he is vicious in his attacks. If you are serious, and don't know much about him, you definately need to check out his site. There's nothing like seeing pics of an actress who is 16, (miley cyrus, for example), with the words skank and ho written over their pics. It is an ugly business.
Wait, where did you hear that Hannity considers Dennis Miller an opportunistic phony?
Exactly, Franco, and very well put. That is it in a nutshell! Tom, Dave, take note!
Look, I understand how you can take a position like this. Not everyone is a fighter.
Where you lose me, though, and where Shillue lost me yesterday, is when you advocate that the fighters not fight.
Let them fight and stay out of the way. The fighters will do more good than you do.
Konig, Shillue, please take note: when even a liberal sees the situation more clearly than you do, you're barking up the wrong tree. No offense, Duh.
Skating-true. But I don't think it is what every lib thinks. Maybe in big cities, but not necessarily in small towns across the heartland. I have never been called racist by anyone, and I live in the South. Good luck to you, SOG, and your beautiful wife.
How's this for racist? I thought Michael Vick wrote "A Faustian Bargain" in today's edition.
Oh please. Are we going to get a 'lay off Dave' post next?
Hows this? Lay off us!
What IS it with this contention that there's more important issues for conservatives to get angry about?
I'm quite capable of being put off by massive spending, debt, taxes, loss of liberties, and…drum roll…Garodalo, all at the same time.
Ironically, don't you two have more important conservative issues to worry about than telling people to lay off?
Jimmy, just go in and edit with either a – mark or a / mark. It will read easier. I think the biggest problem for Dave and Tom is they don't know too many people in flyover land. When you aren't in bigger cities, these comments tend not to occur. I said upthread, I have never seen anyone call another person, regardless of their political stripe a racist to their face. I think it is your ENVIRONMENT, guys!
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