Penn Jillette Responds: ‘Is Dissent Still Patriotic?’
by David HarsanyiOne of my favorite performers, Penn Jillette (and if you haven’t watched the duo of Penn and Teller debunk a broad spectrum of nonsense on their show “Bulls***!“, you should) says a few words about my column — or, more specifically, the headline of my column– “Is Dissent Still Patriotic?”
Warning for the faint of heart, Penn uses some salty language — which, incidentally, I also completely support.
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Bush? Obama? Jillette finds that dissent can provoke very distinct reactions from his friends, depending on the target.
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After almost 3 minutes I gave up, he needs to get to the point, the halting and the uhs and the rambling were to much.
Penn Jillette has an AMAZING face.
Dissent is neither inherently patriotic, nor UNpatriotic. It all depends on WHAT you’re dissenting about. Dissent when the government is infringing on your rights, yeah, patriotic. Dissent for the purpose of causing our defeat in the middle of a war? Not so patriotic.
That’s a little thing we call “nuance”, Libturds.
OMG I couldn’t watch the whole boring ramble. Penn Jillette is essentially an 18-year-old. He doesn’t remember the “dissent is patriotic” anti-U.S. flag waiving that went on under Bush, I guess?
The Left cannot stand criticism. That’s the bottom line. In their minds, everybody agrees with them and anyone that doesn’t is evil. I know Penn has said many rude and evil things about conservatives and I don’t see what the big effing deal is about him having to listen to people hate on his president now. I don’t like Obama, I don’t agree with Obama. I think he’s dangerous, clueless, indecisive, and overrated. I don’t think he’s cute, hot, sexy, or anything else good. He’s an okay prepared speaker, but says very little of substance. I get why other people like him, but I do not have to shut up or kiss a** just because the media and all of celbritydome want to put their noses up his cooze.
Great point, Daver…during the last eight years I was happy to wake up in a country where you could criticize your President, but depressed to wake up in a country where the party out of power in general would lie about our President, say things that would lead to our downfall despite having no proof, a ridiculous philosophy and a lust for power that didn’t care if it hurt people as long as it gained power. Oh, and all in the guise of helping the quote little guy.
I love Penn, people like him made me not a liberal. It’s clear…liberalism is a flim flam that needs to be debunked.
Go Penn! So, Penn agrees with Rush Limbaugh that he does NOT want Obama to succeed on matters about which Penn believes government should have either no role or a less prominent role. I hope that Penn’s fate is not the same as Rush, that being that he must now be investigated by the FBI or some stupid agency at the federal level.
He is a Libertarian. He says it. He lives it. He asks for liberty to believe and think what he wants.
Why should anyone be vilified for that??
Crap, I watched that whole thing thinking he was gonna make something disappear.
He’s right. No doubt about it. Time for us to stop holding back our fire.
Well I don’t know either (if dissent is still patriotic) but today Obama hit his head trying to go through the door on Marine One, so obviously that means he’s a stupid doofus, especially when coupled with that window he tried to walk through last week or whenever.
Brad, how eloquent are you when you are passionate about something, speaking off the top of your head, and have not scripted out your speach? Remember he is speaking as Penn, the American citizen, NOT Penn the entertainer.
Genevieve – listen to is again, he does deal with this. He says he is saying the same thing about Obama as he said about Bush, except that now he is catching grief about it.
Even more than the fact that it I happen to agree with a lot of what he says, it’s way more than that. He is not following the rest of Hollywood or spouting the same dren the majorit of the rest of the hollywood/entertainers types are more than happy to gush out at any oppotunity.
There is NEVER anything wrong, ever, with questioning those in autority, be it leaders of a local club, state or national government, or one’s chosen faith. There is a difference between questioning and blasphemy/defiance/disbelief and antagonism. It is extremely helpful in that it helps keep people accountable.
Short answer to Penn’s final question — Yes, if you keep questioning Obama on libertarian grounds the same way you criticized Bush you’re going lumped in with Rush, Hannity, Fox News, etc. and considered a right-wing crank.
And if you keep up the criticism in public forums with liberal celebrities — as opposed to musings limited to YouTube, I’d say there’s a better than 50-50 chance someone on the HuffPo or one of the other sites will label you as a racist before the midterm elections.
Like any trite saying that fits on a bumper sticker, the question is silly. Is dissent patriotic? Not inherently, as all you would have to do to be considered a patriot would be to disagree with everything. Patently absurd. But it is funny that those who were espousing it for the last 8 years, no longer adhere to it today.
Leave it to a Las Vegas magician to poignantly put life into perspective (Teller might share the same feelings but he never speaks so I don’t know). Penn and Tellers show Bull Sh** is one that must be seen by everyone. These two put the “common” back into common sense.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with dissent, I know that’s why the founding fathers put “freedom of speech” into the constitution.
I’d have to agree with Daver that there are slight nuances to dissent.
I’ll just take one mantra of dissent over the war on terrorism.
“Bush lied people died,” while factually accurate that people died in the war on terrorism, I think that goes with out saying. People die in war, that is the idea behind fighting wars. Kill the enemy where ever you find them as long as they are not holding a white flag of surrender.
Our country has spent and will keep spending billions upon billions of dollars in an attempt to perfect the art of limited civilian casualties. The enemy that we fight against, Wahhabi fundamentalist, knows that the media will criticize any civilian casualties so they use this to their advantage. They hide and fight from with in the civilian populous. As seen yet again by Hamas in Palestine, they know the IDF will destroy the area in which the last missile attack came from. Hamas uses this to it’s advantage so they fire missiles from highly populated civilian areas. Why isn’t there anyone questioning the military ethics of Hamas.
The lying part of the statement is disingenuous in the sense that Bush didn’t actually lie to us. More than one clandestine organization, from multiple countries, had intel that pointed to WMD’s in Iraq. On the comedic/liberal talk show The Daily hosted by John Stewart he had on General Georges Sanda the second in command of the air force. General Sanda writes and speaks about WMD’s being transported to Syria before the invasion.
Obama gave the ok to use Predator drones to attack terrorist in Pakistan which I’m all for, however, it’s still an attack inside a sovereign country and civilians were killed as well. Where is the out rage from the “Bush lied people died” folks. It’s suddenly become hypocritically and apparently politically mute.
There’s nothing wrong with dissent but as Daver said there are slight nuances.
Regarding the promo for B******t, you might want to consider this episode first:
sho.com/site/ptbs/previous_episodes.do?episodeid=s5/immigration
Most other braindead celebrities don’t have the opportunity to be useful idiots for corrupt governments and corporations, so Jillette should be especially proud that he was able to go where other braindead celebrities haven’t yet trod.
Penn Gilette is a vile racist because he hates Obama!
Penn may stumble a lot with his words but he usually makes some pretty good points in his videos. Especially where he talks about stuff that he doesn’t “want him to accomplish.” Also the point on the stuff he says about Bush being true for the most part about Obama. There really isn’t too much difference between Bush and Obama. Obama’s stimulus package will be about as successful as Bush’s was anyway.
Why should myself or anyone else root for the stimulus bill to pass when I think it is going to be a complete and total boondoggle?
That’s a good point that someone who has been performing his whole life should be able to deliver a strong statement. And look at The Governator. He’s been in hollywood for decades and both of his campaigns were relatively bland.
You’d think entertainers would be at an advantage over the studious intellectual types. I don’t get it.
Penn may stumble a lot with his words but he usually makes some pretty good points in his videos. Especially where he talks about stuff that he doesn’t “want him to accomplish.” Also the point on the stuff he says about Bush being true for the most part about Obama. There really isn’t too much difference between Bush and Obama. Obama’s stimulus package will be about as successful as Bush’s was anyway.
Why should myself or anyone else root for the stimulus bill to pass when I think it is going to be a complete and total boondoggle?
To other comments, let’s not rip on Penn here. Let’s not rip on libertarians more generally.
There are many libertarians who don’t need to be met half way. Most even.
Easy, right? What other potential “get” in the coalitional sense demands so little?
To get a libertarian vote, the state does nothing or spends nothing.
To get most other votes, the state must do something or spend something.
Easy, right?
The thing that people seem to miss about “my country, right or wrong” is that it includes “wrong.”
Or else it would be “My country, right no matter what.”
I’m sick to tears of the stupid “if Bush wins I’m leaving” or the new “it’s so great to be American again” and if I hear a conservative saying the same now I call them on it.
Obama may take *my* country down the crapper, but it’s still *my* country, and he is *my* president, even if watching him is like watching a train wreck.
It is very Important to capitalize words like Naive. Because they are proper nouns. Not in the semantic sense. In the monarchical sense.
To 24AheadDotCom, I’ve seen the episode and I agree with the Penn and Teller BS show. In the sense that if we hope a fence is going to stop immigration then we’ve all be smoking something. A fence isn’t going to stop anything increased patrols/minute men will however. If we want to stop the immigration problem it will require a lot more than a fence. It will require an actual defense of our boarders. Neither party seems very interested in defending our boarders, they don’t want to upset a potential voting block.
On a side note where is the media and Obama himself decrying not to listen to Penn seeing as how he dare to say he doesn’t want to see Obama’s plan to succeed.
It has been amazing to me how Penn has allowed the world into his personal politics with the show Bulls@#t, and he is still someone the mainstream media allows to exist. I assume he is smart enough to know people will dissent with his views, but it seems he only wants to be able to respond in kind. Let’s face it, a somewhat disjointed off the cuff commentary by him is still more coherent than anything Rosie O’Donnell has posted. Or Ashton Kutcher and his gang for that matter. (I promise to get to know my neighbor? WTF?!)
i like how libertarians don’t think the state should be responsible for helping people economically, but it bothers me how they don’t want the state to regulate people’s personal lives… it just seems wrong.
I remember having conversations with ponderous “thinkers” like this my freshman year in college — and losing interest even then.
Penn has the language skills to be a New York senator.
Right, Elena. Moviebob’s little screed is shot through with the only true animus here — the one he feels and that which drives the anti-Prop 8 witchhunt: the wish to destroy people who had the gall to defend the traditional definition of marriage, an act of social husbandry only necessary in an age so morally inverted. No right was taken away, nobody’s rights were infringed. The “ire” — and then some — is all theirs. And notice the subtext that the preservationists got what they deserved. Charming — and with its own smiley-face.
From what I understand, dissent is not only unpatriotic now, it is racist.
Enough with the style over substance debate, in the end he made an important and fair point. Libertarians generally strike me as a bit lazy and non-committal, but the allegations that Bush and Obama on certain issues are alike is correct. Face it, in the end all of our politicians are self-serving douchebags, and it's never going to change.
I’m sorry, but Penn is a hypocrite.
If you read the David Harsanyi column from the Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/harsanyi/ci_11505879), you will see that he says NOTHING contrary to the beliefs that Penn articulates. He agrees with Penn 100% — limited government, very limited executive power, against the cult of personality.
But he has to claim he disagrees with Harsanyi for the same reasons Hollywood liberals have to claim to hate Bush: High School Groupthink. If he doesn’t pretend to disagree with Harsanyi, the cool kids won’t be nice to him anymore.
Screw him. He either needs to grow some gonads or join the other team. We don’t need his cowardly ass on this side.
Penn’s whining about Bush was based on his abysmal ignorance…
Mind you there was more than enough about some of Bush’s policies worth critiquing but when LIBTARDS and the dim-witted Dems started making stuff up, that’s being a traitor…
[...] Today? Not so much. Or so says my second favorite Libertarian, Penn Jillette. [...]
MovieBob… it goes both ways.
If it’s okay to identify and harass people for their political views when those views are wrong or unpopular, then that’s the case when the “wrong and unpopular” views are wrong and unpopular in the eye of some other beholder.
The principle of free participation and respect for people’s right to cast a vote without harassment has to stand even when the opinion you’re protecting is one you find abhorrent.
It used to be “I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it.”
Now it’s, “I disagree with what you have to say, so I will hound and harass you.”
Personal intimidation is NEVER the high ground. It’s never the right path. If those promoting gay marriage can not make their case without resorting to personal intimidation and harassment, then maybe the side that won this last time around was the right side after all.
Ahem. Don’t you hate it when a video is put up on a blog and you get the “Video is no longer available”. Especially when it has been less than 24 Hrs.
Pete, pretty much what he said was that in his mind Obama is pretty much the same as Bush. That he criticized Bush for his big government ways and would criticize Obama because he’s no different. And he wonders (I figure he *knows*) if the reaction of people to his criticism of the president will be different now.
Is it just me or is it obvious that major drugs have played a role in Penn’s life? Typical liberal – get stoned – say stupid things – have a bunch of dopes follow you around. It’s amazing how republicans are bad but democrats are good. Look at the resume’ of all the democratic dopes in Congress. They are all lawyers! ! ! (Does Penn know this? ) Name a job that a lawyer “created” that wasn’t a job that helped put other people OUT OF BUSINESS.
So all you republicans out there who are the ones, going to work, paying the taxes, defending our country, making sure EVERYONE ELSE can say whatever they want – just keep your thoughts to yourself because DEMOCRATS DON’T CARE!
Penn Jillette is a CHRIST HATING HELL BOUND IDIOT. Just because he has the right view of Obama doesn’t make him worth a WET FART!
I bought my Dissent is Patriotic t-shirt and plan on using it as my staple basic for summer. http://www.zazzle.com still sells them in many different style – ironically they still sell them on the Democratic T-Shirt side – they have not switched them over or perhaps the idea is that only Democrats are allowed to dissent. Anyway, I am wearing mine with pride in NYC!
No one said it better than our own new Sec. State:
“I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration you’re not patriotic. We should stand up and say, ‘We are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!’” – Hillary Clinton
Penn has it right. We have every right to disagree with something being done by our government.
BO is my president now; he certainly wasn’t my choice, but I would be a fool to say that I want everything he does to be an utter failure. He is the executive of my country now, and if he is an utter failure my country and my home suffer by extension. In today’s dangerous times, such a thing is not what any sane person hopes for.
That being said, I have serious disagreements with his policies particularly his domestic agenda. I’ve done plenty of research on what happens to people in countries with socialized health care systems, for example, and I have determined that it just is not something that I want for me or mine. And that’s just one example.
Still, I’m not going to go the mindless lefty route of chanting empty slogans of “Obama lied and people died.” Nor will I find every opportunity to make up lies about things he’s doing. BO will sink or swim on his own merits or lack thereof, and if these last weeks are any indication … He may beat the Titanic to the bottom.
BTW, Penn did a similar little video recounting a fellow who stayed after his show to give him a Bible, and while he was clear that he wasn’t interested he was also clear that he appreciated the fellow’s honest good intentions. It’s been a while since I watched it but I *think* he went on to complain about people who insist that they ought to be offended, that it’s automatically hateful to want to share your sincere beliefs.
So, I don’t know if Vincent is just trying to give Christians a bad name, but what I’ve seen of Penn, I don’t see that the rudeness was justified.
I’ve yet to meet a Libertarian yet who actually had any clear idea of what they believed. After about three talking points they collapse. Penn is no different. Libertarianism is politics for earnest seventh-graders.
Wow… for the first time, I can agree with Sphyncterboy McGuillicutty. Welcome to the party, pal.
Brisco county…
I you’re blasting Jillette for kissing up to his liberal buddies you’re mistaken. While Jilette has problems with some conservative social beliefs, the majority of his work is a major affront to most liberals and their new hybrid of new age beliefs and politics. I think the Republicans might do well to embrace the libertarians and perhaps create two wings of the party…one libertarian and one social conservative. Electing libertarians in blue states and social conservatives in the so-called red states.
Meh!
The highest form of dissent is treason and, therefore, unpatriotic.
Dissent against the U.S. Constitution’s principals is unpatriotic.
Unity is overrated.
Vigilance, or Responsibility?
“Aaaand, uh/er…” pass the government popcorn & cheese please. I’m entitled to a bailout now, too!
“[A]ccording to the irrationalist, the majority of men will always have to be tackled by an appeal to their emotions and passions rather than an appeal to their reason… it is the emotional make-up of man and not his reason that determines his attitude…
It is the yearning for the lost unity and shelter of tribalism which expresses itself in these mystical elements…” — Karl Popper, 1962
And, speaking of ‘dissent as patriotism’…
The Sunshine Patriots:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMpnqjZ_Rmw
[...] by way of Big Hollywood, Penn Jillette (Penn & Teller) comments on a Denver Post editorial by David Harsanyi entitled, [...]
OMG Is Penn agreeing with Rush? Are they both saying they have some core beliefs that BHO does not share and if he is going into some big government socialism they want him to fail. When you think strange bedfellows this has to be the ultimate!
Jillette proves that a furrowed brow and dramatic pauses do not make a deep thinker. He also shows why libertarians, like all single-issue bores, are self-defeating.
Bush and Obama have absolutely nothing in common. Bush was not good on spending and signed some legislation he should have opposed. But he held the power of the state in check.
Bush did not desire to direct industry or rebuild the economy through a vast bureaucracy. He did not empower the public sector at all costs, using environmental or workplace legislation. He did not try to blur the line between the government and private interest groups like unions, lawyers and community activists. He did not try to politicize the census. He did not use divisive language chiding Americans for their history and culture. He did not exploit envy and fear of imminent collapse. Obama does all these things. What is a little deficit compared to that?
Bush did not set out to fundamentally change America. Obama talks about nothing else.
Bush also defended American sovereignty against transnational busybodies. International law is the banging back door that libertarians never seem to worry about. It´s not all about spending.
Bush understood the function and limits of his office. He never stopped to show goodwill even to his worst political enemies. That is why the recent transition of power went smoothly until the day Bush left office. Obama´s idea of bipartisanship is that everyone has to step aside and do what he wants. They could not be more dissimilar.
It's entertaining when either party disparages Libertarians as though there is something wrong with liberty.
Newsflash to Dems & Reps, we are a REPUBLIC which created a charter, THE CONSTITUTION, which is the rule of law not either of your ideological rantings or attempts to take ownership of righteousness – you don't own ANYTHING – it's a privilege to live here, a right granted by the gov't which does not through its charter seek to discriminate – it's why you're here.
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