10 Reasons Why Pastors Avoid the Culture War
by Doug GilesAs far as I’m concerned, a silent or waffling pastor in today’s paranormal climate is unnecessary. I don’t care how much the minister likes kitty cats, candy canes, and if he cries at Celine Dion concerts. Look, Voiceless Vicar, if you’re not currently in the middle of this crucial cultural squabble, pointing out what’s putrid and cheering on what’s proper, then you’re Dr. Evil in my book.
Given that the culture-dividing issues, thanks to Obama, are more obvious than Joan Rivers’ last lip implants, it is mind-boggling to me that many ministers are mute or side with parties, policies and principles that are antithetical to the Judeo-Christian worldview. I don’t know if you got this memo in seminary but pastors are not only supposed to salvage souls but also build the good society.
In some kind of ascending order, it seems to me there are 10 reasons why pastors and priests avoid political and intense cultural issues and thus aid and abet evil:
1. Fear of Man: If you purport to be a man of God then your regard for God and His opinion must trump the trepidation of the creature God created from spit and mud. Come on, man of God, don’t fear the crowd . . . we’re peons with cell phones who’ll shoot Botox into our foreheads. We’re weird and fickle weather vanes of what’s en vogue. You’ve got to lead us. Therefore, move into the Moses mode and command us to be and do what is holy, just and good. The grinning, mild, subtle Oprah approach doesn’t seem to be stemming the current flood of cultural filth.
2. Ignorance: Most people are not bold in areas in which they are ignorant . . . always excepting Janeane Garofalo, of course. I know keeping up with all the pressing political issues is maddening, but that’s life, brother, and if you want to be a voice in society and not just an echo, you have got to be in the know. Staying briefed is par for the course for the hardy world changer.
3. Division: Y’know, I hate the current non-essential divisions in the church as much as the next acerbic Christian columnist. Squabbling over the color of the carpet, who’ll play the organ next Sunday or who is the Beast of Revelation, is stupidity squared. That being said, there’s a time and place for a holy throw-down and an ecclesiastical split from political policies and parties. For a minister to seek unity with secularists when they are trashing and rewriting Scripture with impunity is to side with vice and to allow darkness to succeed.
4. Last Days Madness: Many ministers do not get involved in political issues because they believe that “it simply doesn’t matter” since “the end has come.” These defeatists believe that any change in the jet stream, war, earthquakes, a warming globe, the success of a corrupt politician—or even a new Shakira video—are “proof” that God is getting really, really ticked off and that His only recourse is to have Christ physically return and kick some major butt. Attempting to right culture is, in the defeatists’ eyes, equivalent to polishing brass on a sinking ship; therefore, they are content to simply pass out gospel tracts, tramp from Christian rock concert to Christian rock concert, eat fatty foods and stare at Christian TV.
5. Sloth: Classically defined, sloth is lethargy stemming from a sense of hopelessness. Viewing our nation and the world as an irreparable disaster, where our exhortations, prayers, votes and labors will not produce any temporal fruit, leaves one with all the fervor of a normal guy who’s forced to French kiss his sister. If you’re wondering why your flock is so apathetic, Pastor Eeyore, ask yourself if you have stolen the earthly hope that their valiant efforts can actually prevail in time and not just in eternity.
6. They don’t want to lose their tax-exempt status: Many pastors, priests and parishioners have been cowed into inactivity by the threatened loss of their tax-exempt status if they say anything remotely political. This can make pastors who don’t, or won’t, get good legal advice about as politically active as Howard Hughes was during the flu season.
7. They bathe in paltry pietism: Pastors avoid politics because such concerns are “unspiritual,” and their focus is on the “spirit world.” Yes, to such imbalanced ministers, political affairs are seen as “temporal and carnal,” and since they trade in the “eternal and spiritual,” such “worldly” issues get nada.
This bunch is primarily into heavenly emotions and personal Bible study, and they stay safely tucked away from society and its complicated issues. How sweet. They forget that they are commanded to be seriously engaged with our culture or fall into the worthless manure category Christ warned them of (Mt. 5.13). Snap.
8. They have bought into the Taliban comparison: Pastors have muffled their political/cultural voices because they fear being lumped in with Islam by the politically-correct thought police. The correlation made between Christians’ non-violent attempts at policy persuasion and the Taliban’s kill-you-in-your-sleep campaigns is nothing more than pure, uncut crapola.
9. They can’t say “no” to minutiae: Some ministers can’t get involved in studying or speaking out regarding pressing issues simply because of the ten tons of junk they are forced to field within their congregations. Spending time wet nursing 30-year-olds without a life and being bogged down in committee meetings over which shade of pink paint should be used for the women’s ministerial wing of their church, ministers are lucky if they get to study the Bible nowadays—much less anything else.
10. They like the money: The creepy thing about a lot of ministers is their unwillingness to give political or cultural offense when offense is needed, simply because taking a biblical stand on a political issue might cost them their mega-church, which means their seven homes, their Bentley and their private jet. Oh well, what do you expect? Christ had His Judas, and evangelicalism has its money loving hookers.
If the ministers within the good old US of A would crucify their fear of man, get solidly briefed regarding the chief political issues, not sweat necessary division, not get caught up in last days madness, maintain their hope for tomorrow, understand their liberties under God and our Constitution, not become so heavenly minded that they’re no earthly good, focus on the majors and blow off bowing to cash instead of convictions, then maybe . . . just maybe . . . we will see their righteous influence cause our nation to take the needed sharp turn away from the secularist progressives’ speedily approaching putrid pit.
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263 Comments
As a Protestant I have been hearing a lot of anti-liberalism (which is anti-God) coming from my Pastor. It's worked into the sermon and everyone is catching it….I like it because it's honest. The Bible is the Holy Word of God….and if Pastors stick strictly to God's Word and His true meaning, today's Godless culture doesn't stand a chance in the pulpit. It's the cotton candy Christians who only want to hear sugar-coated sermons that will find themselves in trouble at the end of the game.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Pamela Pope. Pamela Pope said: RT @Q_Element: 10 Reasons Why Pastors Avoid the Culture War http://bit.ly/BcRgy [...]
Just to be clear, you're saying that liberalism is anti-God, not anti-liberalism, correct?
Had to read your comment a few times to be sure (sort of).
"become so heavenly minded that they’re no earthly good.."
A profundity of the highest order! Congratulations on a very good article.
The Apostle John commands us to speak the truth with love. I'm sure you believe you're speaking the truth– and hopefully that will generate a worthy debate here.
But darned if I can see even the slightest hint of Christian love in your sarcasm-laden post. If you can't muster the love, why are you even bothering?
Truth… and love.
Yours in Christ.
calling some one to repentance is the ultimate loving act.
He wants to see them on the straight and narrow path, and to avoid the temptations of the world in the same way that Christ's message does.
I can't even imagine John the Baptist among our current civilization. I mean, just try to imagine him here among us today, what he'd be saying and how thoroughly the Left would be, well, "calling for his head".
John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.
Romans 13:1-2
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
John 15:20
Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
2Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
John 8:36
Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
John 19:10-11
Then Pilate said to Him, "Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?" Jesus answered, "You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above…..
1John 2:15-17
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world–the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life–is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" —2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3
"Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Matthew 24:41).
"Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Luke 17:36).
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." —1st Corinthians 15:51-53
Good article, Mr. Giles, but I'm surprised you left Dear Leader out as an example of "Ignorance". Obama's entire foreign policy consists of one thing: Joe Biden. That, in and of itself, is scary. However, it's a prime example of someone going boldly into an area where he is completely ignorant. And now that ignorance has been lauded by the Nobel Prize committee.
Personally, I think more of us– ministers and laymen alike– should be diving into protecting our God-given rights. We're certainly far less ignorant than Dear Leader.
RIGHT ON! Great Great article. You are in my love book now, ty. good job
Oh looky…. another liberal troll clicking "thumbs down". Go back to bed, troll. It's too early to check the mailbox for your welfare money.
Re Last Days Paranoia: That's a particular peeve of mine. I hate it when people indulge in that sort of mentality.
Whether or not it's the end, I'm personally not gonna stop fighting for what's right until I die. That fight can always make a difference, right until the very last second.
Pastors cannot build good societies in a corrupt and sinful world. They can preach the bible and tell people about needing to be saved. But in the end, this world will not last, and will be made new. Pastors should never be man pleasers, and should always preach the bible as it is. But first you have to be a bible believing pastor to begin with . Alot are compromisers on things like evolution, salvation, accuracy of the bible,homosexuality, and so on. Or come from a false religion like catholicism, morminism, jehovah witness, lutheran, some methodists, tounges speaking charismatic penecostals, gay churches. Thinmk about it, in an article about pastors afraid to offend sinners, you were afraid to offend the false religion of catholicism, and included priests in your pastor grouping. How ironic.
Excellent post, Doug.
This reminds of an excerpt from a speech that a Pastor when he preached against abortion and for adoption:
"There was a time when the church was very powerful–in the time when the early Christians rejoiced at being deemed worthy to suffer for what they believed. In those days the church was not merely a thermometer that recorded the ideas and principles of popular opinion; it was a thermostat that transformed the mores of society. Whenever the early Christians entered a town, the people in power became disturbed and immediately sought to convict the Christians for being "disturbers of the peace" and "outside agitators."' But the Christians pressed on, in the conviction that they were "a colony of heaven," called to obey God rather than man. Small in number, they were big in commitment. They were too God-intoxicated to be "astronomically intimidated." By their effort and example they brought an end to such ancient evils as infanticide and gladiatorial contests. Things are different now. So often the contemporary church is a weak, ineffectual voice with an uncertain sound. So often it is an archdefender of the status quo. Far from being disturbed by the presence of the church, the power structure of the average community is consoled by the church's silent–and often even vocal–sanction of things as they are.
But the judgment of God is upon the church as never before. If today's church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust."
The excerpt is from "A Letter from a Birmingham Jail" by Martin Luther King
http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_B...
Christianity at large is losing followers rapidly these days. Pastors avoid the culture wars because they more of a fuss they make about them the more adherents they lose. Most people seem to want to believe in a higher power and even attend church as long as it doesn't mean they actually have to read the bible or commit too much of themselves. The more you ask of them the more they gravitate toward non-demoninational mega-churches. It doesn't help that a great many churches are having problems staying relevant in light of modern scientific knowledge.Seriously, any church that continues to deny evolution and preach literalism is going to be increasingly marginalized in the coming years.
Whoops
The first sentence should read:
"This reminds of an excerpt from a speech that a Pastor cited when he preached against abortion and for adoption:"
Odd, Obama promotes peace, diplomacy and respect for other countries as foreign policy and you berate him. You've obviously missed the nuance of his face to the world, perhaps you'd rather he just bomb another country?
A little early for this much hate, too
hmmm… having grown up in a Southern Baptist Church most of my life… I don't think any of my pastors have had the problems you described…. as long as they are preaching in love and not scaring the living daylights out of you (ie, the infamous fire and brimstone) it works… You can still speak out against the atrocities of this world and be apolitical at the same time.
Except for the inconvenient little fact that the non-denominational, evolution-rejecting evangelical megachurches you attack are the only ones growing. The dying churches are the old denominational ones, many of them liberal. I agree that pastors will lose adherents if they make too much of a fuss about culture wars. But who cares? Separate the wheat and chaff.
That you think your particular flavor of religion is any less "false" than others is funny. That you think "compromising" on the obviously proven reality of evolution and right of homosexuals to do as God made them is sad. Biblical accuracy? Good luck with that, translating a book from a language with roughly 44,000 words into a language with millions (not to mention a few other languages in between) is a pretty tall order.
This article articulates many conversations I've had with my own circle of Catholic friends. I cannot say how frustrating it is to speak personally with a priest who is profound, wise, and Truthful, only to see him get in front of a few hundred people and become a shy, bumbling fool. I one million percent agree with #1. More than once I've seen priests try to teach that abortion is wrong without saying "abortion is wrong." I've seen other priests unapologeticly give the same teaching and some in the congregation have walked out of the sermon. The courageous priests don't seem so obsessed with what humans think about them.
Personally, I think that the Preachers that don't acknowledge evolution are becoming more far and few between… at least in my experience. It was my old (I'm talking a guy in his 70's here) Baptist preacher that introduced me to a Creation theory that involves evolution (and could still be deemed "literal" as the hebrew word for day… 'yom'… used in the Creation Story has at least three different meanings)… But don't take my word for it. But I do agree with you on the committment aspect of "Christians"…
The animosity in Brother Giles's post is obvious. I can't judge his heart; if he says his apparent hatred is motivated by love then I can only take his word for it.
If he's calling anyone to repentance, it's the pastors who, though our brothers in Christ, aren't antagonistic enough to secular liberals for Brother Giles's comfort. I don't see even the slightest hint that he is calling unbelievers to repentance; this appears to be more about defeating political opponents (secular OR born again) in political warfare.
Anyway, the "ultimate loving act" is certainly not the act of asking pastors to get political. No, the ultimate loving act occurred on the Cross, when He who was sinless took on our sins.
And for the record, I'm not against pastors being political. Jesus himself had a lot of harsh words for those who mistreated the poor; he told people to pay taxes; he attacked money changers who operated in the temple. He certainly spoke out against evil. But let's speak the truth with love. This is not only biblical, it's essential if our true aim is converting the lost. No unbeliever ever came to Christ through a Christian's hostile condemnation of them. And if Brother Giles can't speak of pastors in a loving tone, I shudder to think of how he speaks of unbelievers (especially those whose politics he disapproves). Every single one of his points is appropriate– and every single one of them could be said in love without losing any of their substance.
You wrote the words from the Apostle John yourself–"Speak the truth with love." God does not command us to only speak the truth that people want to hear. He wants us to tell the truth people don't always want to hear, but in a manner that is loving and kind so that they may actually listen.
there is a third alternative to evolution and literalism. It is day-age creationism. google Hugh Ross.
Rush Limbaugh anyone? He may not be adorned in animal skins and making his meals of locust and honey, but he sure as heck is a voice in the wilderness. In fact, just being a conservative these days can leave one relating to the great John the Baptist.
Excellent article. You really nailed it.
I come from a church in which a lot of people believe in your "last days madness". I personally believe that we do not know the day, nor the hour, so we should do what is right in the meantime.
Mike, taking your logic a step further I guess you would castigate Christ for his attitude toward the money changers in the Temple?
As the Messiah Jesus called the strictly religious Pharisees snakes and vipers and sons of hell (look it up), I see the writer here calling out pastors who are compromising the Gospel hope and power for good, genuine and eternal change. As a full time preacher/pastor, I am diligently involved in meeting people where they are and helping them find the Light in this present darkness. He may talk rough, but the Apostle Peter was not poet gentleman, either. Get toughter skins and tenderer hearts… but know that we are in a war that will give not quarter to those who refuse to become engaged. Where will YOU stand when the dust clears?
Excellent post. Early Christians transformed the entire Roman Empire. The forces of evil have responded by changing their methods and argument, but forces of evil they remain.
Satan used Scripture to try to tempt Jesus. Much as we are told that morality demands we forfeit our freedoms for the "common good". We need to regalvanize our efforts, and speak Truth.
Good thinking, Mr. Snerd.
Why go to great lengths and twist your beliefs into a pretzel to reconcile the sketchy concept of Biblical Creationism and the brutally obvious concept of Evolution? It might be easier on everyone and more accurate to renounce Creationism.
By the way, embracing Evolution isn't the same as endorsing the big bang theory or any origin-of-life theory. Evolution pretty much just starts with life and goes from there, instead of guessing what happened to cause life.
point taken on my clumsy wording. It seems to me that calling the church leadership to repentance is a good idea, when and if they are in error. (isn't that what the gospels were, letters to church leaders?) Their role is to lead thier flocks, and if they are off course what chance do the sheep have? The individual members all have struggles to overcome. The pastors play an important role for them as an anchor.
Do pastors need to be political? no. But they do need to have a strong foundation. and being gentle towards sin does not help anyone.
Mikey:
Is Mr. Giles referring to you when he mentions "paltry pietism"?
Hmmmmmm……
Oh, grow up…
John the Baptist would be diagnosed with a mental disorder and heavily medicated.
Not a very good alternative, alas. Hugh Ross was educated enough to understand the astronomical and cosmological aspects of the evolution of the universe, but not the biological ones. He seems to dissmis the fossil record and molecular biology. Hehe, "sublimely silly, trivial, vaguely stated, or perfectly compatible with actual evolutionary biology." – review of Ross by PZ Myers.
*dismiss, idiot
so if all other churches are false (and it seems you condemn most of the major denominations) what is the one true way?
I have no issue with someone seeking out the true path. But it seems that either a church that was a reformation of another or a restoration of the true faith is required, if you believe there is only one true church.
Either God allows all ways or he allows one.
so if he allows all, it is unimportant to which you belong.
If he allows only one, It would be our job to find it. I say ask God to guide you; once you have learned about a church, pray and ask about it.
So since so many of us belong to one of your list of false churches, please tell us, which is the one true path to god?
My example of how a pastor should behave would be based on Christ who is the ultimate truth; and the priests of his day, who frustrated Him. He didn't personally focus on politics but he cared about how people were affected personally. Jesus also frustrated some of his followers because It was expected of the Messiah to free Israel from Roman tyranny, but as God in the flesh, He came for much more than that. He certainly confronted situations when they arose; such as telling roman soldiers, who also acted as policemen, to not falsely accuse citizens and extort money from them…and when he was given a trick question about taxes he replied that we should give to caesar what is caesar's and give to God what is God's. I do agree with your article; the priests of two thousand years ago could also be corrupt and went after power and money. They should have been more like Moses and Job; protecting the widows and oprhans and bringing truth and light into the culture. great article Doug.
I can only imagine how what it is. It seems much easier to stand strong when you have others to help. Maybe a conservative athiest group is needed. Good luck to you.
Man oh man I have been asking this question for awhile now and not getting anywhere with any of my fellow Christian friends and Pastors. Pastors say you need to stay faithful through these times. Well DUH!
I read in His word to put on the full armor of GOD, well that tells me we are in a battle. I have come to the conclusion I don't care anymore about the leaders of the church looking to them to lead me, I now look to GOD Himself through HIS strength I will fight and endure what is set before me. Thanks I knew I wasn't alone in this matter.
[...] [...]
Since you are not Catholic, nor Mormon, nor Pentecostal, nor Lutheran, we know to disregard your self-righteous opinion. Remember that the Bible is the INSPIRED word of God, not one handed down by the angel Gabriel directly to someone ambitious. The prophets were sent to change the hearts of men, not to gaze into a crystal ball. The Scripture is not always literal fact but is always truth. Lighten up, Francis.
Congratulations, you can copy and paste from the Bible.
[...] the first place. So it’s akin to discovering water on Mars to find one pastor who (openly) refuses to stay on the sidelines in the culture [...]
Thanks, Buckwheat, for the good words. I do stand strong on these moral issues, but I get pilloried for it. I'm pretty much persona non grata at James Randi's site.
Dawkins wrote favorably of abortion in one of his books. How could he do that? Maybe tolerance of infanticide is a natural outgrowth of atheism and acceptance of Evolution, but it didn't work that way with me. It's up to each of us to examine our moral concepts and, if necessary, go against the grain. I really appreciate Christians for some of their moral stances, particularly their anti-abortion efforts.
Charles Manson thought the Beatles were speaking directly to him, using the lyrics of the song "Helter Skelter."
I get a little nervous reading some of the comments where the individual believes the Bible, or God, speaks directly to him or her about taking action. I worry that the alleged communication might galvanize that person into some sort of potentially disastrous action.
This is why Pastors can't get together and defeat the enemy of liberalism. When you are fighting for top dog on the True Church meter then its a matter of divide and conquer without lifting a finger. You know the old saying "to a hammer everything is a nail." Thus, to self-righteous religious person everyone is an enemy who isn't one of you.
I come from a religion whose theology demands it is the only True and Living Church on the face of the earth, and I believe that. However, that should NOT interfere with working along side others who are fighting the same fights. As an example, recently Mormons have been in the forefront of battling homosexual marriage and have gotten a public blackeye among the opposition. Where have the Catholic and Evangelicals been? Happy that it is those "evil Mormons" have gotten the brunt with hardly a defender. Ironically, if the Mormons are defeated in sticking up for their beliefs, who do you think will be next on the list? Doesn't matter to the enemy who is a "true" and who is a "false" religion; so long as morality and decency is crushed.
This is one of the worst articles I have ever read on this website.
I *am* a pastor who works with people who come to America from other countries to get their education. Notice how none of the 10 reasons Giles gives for why pastors do not fight the mighty culture wars are positive – as if there could not possibly be good reasons why I would not harp on abortion homosexuality capitalism and all that good stuff. A few of Giles' critiques may be valid – but most of them are ridiculous. We are in it for the money? Ha ha ha! Please stop before I have a hernia.
Oh and I think Obama is the worst president we have ever had. I *am* conservative on political and cultural issues (for the most part). I still resent this piece and find it offensive and outrageous.
Good Words. God has made it clear that mankind has a resposibility to shape the world he lives in. Remember the only time God did not involve man in carrying out his plans was at he moment of creation. Since then God has worked through men to accomplish his will for the world.
Peace through weakness and submission, diplomacy through appeasement, and respect for other countries anti-American feelings deserves to be berated. The only "nuance" the current presidents face is showing to the world is one which weakens and embarrases our nation.
Great list! I would add another reason to the list. It is what I call Doris Day theology, which is aptly described in her song, "Que Sera, Sera": Whatever will be will be. Too many pastors and Christians believe that whatever happens, no matter what it is, is God's will. They love to say that God is "in control". Therefore, He is responsible for whatever happens. It is all in His plan. So, believers don't have to do anything about responding to evil in the world. They should just sit back and let God deal with it , if they really have faith. At this point is where list item #4, Last Days Madness, comes into play.
The primary function of a pastor (and by extension, the Christian church) is the promote and further the gospel. Part of that is preaching the WHOLE word of God, not just the parts people like or find easy to digest. If you stick to Scripture, and let Scripture interpret itself, then the rest will fall in line. Jesus and the disciples didn't rail against Caesar, i.e. the government, but didn't openly condone or endorse it either. Their focus was on the transformative nature of the gospel. I can understand why good pastors avoid political commentary from the pulpit — that's not their call. However, to the extent that the word of God impacts morality, and therefore your worldview (including political worldview), one can preach the worldview of Scripture, and our own worldviews (including political views) should fall in line.
Fred Phelps, is that you?
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The defintion of the word is determined by how is it used within the text. There is nothing within the Creation account to justify the use of yom as meaning anything except a literal day.
After each act of creation we are told the following: And the evening and the morning were the first (second, third, forth, fifth, sixth) day. For days one through six we have the use of an ordinal to denote the day, how does one get a extended period of time in which evolution to take place from this?
In the same statement we have the word for evening ('ereb) and for morning (boqer). The defintions for these words do not allow for an extended gap of time. They describe what we still regard as nighttime (or dusk) and daytime (or dawn), nothing more. So if a day is composed of a morning and an evening how do you get a Creation Story that involves evolution and remains "literal"? You can't. Not without corrupting the meaning of the words.
Let's cut the author a little slack.
I love my neighbor. But, sometimes, behind closed doors, my wife and I talk about our neighbor. And, sometimes we are caustic and sarcastic and blunt. It doesn't mean that I don't love him.
It's unfair to indict Christians with a "aha, you're a hypocrite" every time they engage in colorful, creative, energetic dialogue.
Eagerly awaiting the New Hollywood.
Ah, the fresh smell of a liberal blithely strewing accusations of "hate" hither and yon (rational thinking being a bit too painful). Reminds me of the cow barn back home on the farm.
Nevertheless, you will be checking your mailbox for your welfare check, right?
11. They edit or write for "conservative" group blogs.
Other scientists have thoroughly debunked the notion that the fossil record and molecular biology support macro evolution. In fact, they're some of the best evidence that it didn't happen.
What is funny, as a Catholic, its our young priests who are going off reservation and going back to the right path. THey have brought back latin mass in many areas and make sure the congregations understand there can be no such thing as a cafeteria catholic. You can't pick and choose. Its the older priests who brought in
"guitar" mass and hippy junk that deflated the church. Us kids are picking it back up!
Seems that the "Question Authority" ethic is finally boomeranging back on the old farts. I love it!
There is more than one kind of love, Mike. One of them is tough love. It's not fuzzy or cute, but it's just as valuable as the other kinds.
Hmm… then there are many scholars and preachers (of all denominations and fields of expertise) corrupting the meaning of the words…
I was wondering that too. That statement seems contradictory.
SBC pastors have a unique amount of freedom thanks ot the wisdom of the SBC founders – that is, that pastors in the SBC are accountable to no one but their congregation (and the gov't, if their church is 501c3 tax-exempt, which most are). Not having the hierarchy built into more formal religions allows for more personal freedom and responsibility. The main reason why, no matter what anyone says, I'm thankful I'm SB.
One can engage in "non-violent attempts at policy persuasion", or one can engage in politics (which is inherently violent). One cannot do both. Christians were warned of the futility of attempting to serve two masters.
For several reasons I stopped going to church but of course haven't given up on God. I remember my last pastopr wanted to build a mega church, so he hired a professional church fundraiser to coach him on how to extract more money from the congregation. Something wrong in that approach, I thought.
That and it seemed every other Prespyterian minister was a Sandinista in the 1980s, it seemed.
My theory is that if Christ were to return to the world as he was, he would despise a lot of the churches. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
For several reasons I stopped going to church but of course haven't given up on God. I remember my last pastor wanted to build a mega church, so he hired a professional church fundraiser to coach him on how to extract more money from the congregation. Something wrong in that approach, I thought.
That and it seemed every other Prespyterian minister was a Sandinista in the 1980s, it seemed.
My theory is that if Christ were to return to the world as he was, he would despise a lot of the churches. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
For several reasons I stopped going to church but of course haven't given up on God. I remember my last pastor wanted to build a mega church, so he hired a professional church fundraiser to coach him on how to extract more money from the congregation. Something wrong in that approach, I thought.
That and it seemed every other Presbyterian minister was a Sandinista in the 1980s, it seemed.
My theory is that if Christ were to return to the world as he was, he would despise a lot of the churches. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
I'm not sure how to take this post. I understand the sentiment, but I firmly believe in the separation of Church and state. When pastors get involved in politics, you get the likes Jackson, Sharpton and Wright. You also get liberation theology, which in my opinion is an abomination.
My sister's Pastor just last Sunday referred to 4 ex-hippie anti-war protesters as the "new prophets."
I'll take my religion free from the baggage of other's political opinions.
Mike, a careful reading of the Gospels will show that Jesus used a similar tone with the people who were supposed to be representing God in His earthly ministry.
You think Doug is hard on the pastors, try reading Jeremiah or Ezekiel.
I think Doug is being a watchman on the wall.
I agree… I rarely have had a pastor that was afraid to say what needed to be said… and only one time have I seen a church split over it… Consequently, what the Pastor was talking about largly applied to them (but that technically wasn't a Southern Baptist church it was Missionary Baptist… though the only difference is how it gave money to the missionaries… even though some MBA's will deny that to their deaths… *shakes head*).
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I think that's fantastic. I'm not Catholic, but I think it's wonderful that your priests are starting to fall a little more closely in line with the Vatican. You have a good man leading you. His heart's in the right place. I've been very impressed with some of the statements he's come out with over the past few years. He's not afraid to take a stand for what is right, and I applaud that.
Amen, Brother! I belong to a large Christian church and if the pastors got hung up on the culture wars it would be nothing but non-stop division causing backbiting that would ultimately destroy our fellowship. As my senior pastor would say, "Those are not salvation issues." Mr. Giles' opinion may seem encouraging to the already saved but to a mostly lost and hurting world it is the antithesis of the Great Commission.
The big problem I have with many of today's churches and pastors is that our society and culture of non-judgmentalism and moral relativism have cowed many out of fear of being thought "mean" and "hateful" by those around them.
If you want to live a life that will keep you right with God, you absolutely have to judge actions and intentions as good or evil, right or wrong.
It is true that God loves you no matter what you do, but it is not true that He will reward you no matter what actions you take in life. Too many pastors are caught up in the first part of the message, the part about love, without spending time on the second. God may love you endlessly like a parent loves their child even as they do wrong, but also like a good parent, God punishes you for behaving badly.
Except we're not The Shining City on the Hill but the Armpit Gutter of the World in his eyes. You don't earn respect by cringing like beaten cur.
How about arguing with the actual points that Doug is making, and leave his heart to God, who alone can judge it?
In reading over this article and the subsequent comments, I must say that I'm extremely grateful for religious leaders who never shy away from addressing moral issues and how they relate to church doctrine, particularly around election time. They very rarely endorse specific legislation, and never endorse candidates or parties, but they make sure we as members know the official church stance on the moral issues that have political ramifications, and we're encouraged to vote according to our consciences. We have members voting for every political party under the sun, but the official stance on the issues is clear and unwaivering.
In fact, at our most recent Conference, the talk that seems to be gathering the most controversy is the talk that was the most blunt and straight-forward.
Of course, we can't stop fighting for what's right. If the end does come, it will be those who keep fighting the good fight that will be blessed.
Doug, so your fellow Christians who preach Christ and only Christ are “Evil”? Really?
good, now get to work.
Thank you. My preacher, thank God, is neither weak nor placating, and is the best unifier our church has ever seen (so is not insulting either). Our little ornery Baptist church is growing! He, and the guy above who took such offense, perhaps don't need to read your list and perhaps aren't targets of it, but boy, BOY, do I know of a lot of churches & church leaders that sadly do (assuming a church can read a web posting, roll with me on this one).
Again, thank you, I might have to print this one.
i too worry about this… taking direct action. only i worry about it with atheist/communist/liberals and islamic regimes.
i think the statistics are on my side.
just be thankful you werent a muslim in a mosque. there are other churches, other groups, and your own strong beliefs. stick with it, work with others, its tough. always will be.
Have you tried a less moral view on abortion? From the moment sperm meets egg, the developing baby is genetically distinct from either parent and genetically human. Therefore, likening it to a tumor or a part of the mother's body is a false argument; it is demonstrably neither by DNA alone. Science admits that it does not definitively know for sure when the developing baby becomes aware and "alive." What is known is that as medical science improves, babies born earlier and earlier into gestation can survive and thrive; currently babies born at 21 weeks have a hope of surviving such an early birth. If a 21 week old baby is alive and demonstrably human, then other babies not born at that age should be viewed the same; after all, their positions could easily be reversed. So if a 21 week old pregnancy is human, then how much earlier does it, could it go?
From the moment sperm meets egg, the developing baby is genetically distinct from either parent and genetically human. Therefore, likening it to a tumor or a part of the mother's body is a false argument; it is demonstrably neither by DNA alone. Science admits that it does not definitively know for sure when the developing baby becomes aware and "alive." What is known is that as medical science improves, babies born earlier and earlier into gestation can survive and thrive; currently babies born at 21 weeks have a hope of surviving such an early birth. If a 21 week old baby is alive and demonstrably human, then other babies not born at that age should be viewed the same; after all, their positions could easily be reversed. So if a 21 week old pregnancy is human, then how much earlier does it, could it go?
at my catholic church this last sunday, we were told to accept gays. to love them. and that we have a wide view of prop 8 and other issues. that was it!
i was like… well do gays accept us? do they accept the teachings of the Bible? of Christ? of this church? and how wide are the views? of the catholic church? are they really that wide?
i can accept & love… but are you telling me they still get a 'free pass' card? an exception to the rule?
gays say they wished they could marry and have children… THEY CAN!!! get married to a woman, have children, be true to them, love them, NO ONE IS STOPPING YOU! but your own selfish desires of 'love', a love. to satisfy yourself, your sexual desires, your addictions, your hedonism.
You're right about evolution in your last remark. The problem is that this isn't how it is taught. I got taught that it is the theory that explains all life including how it got started. Id be less hostile to the people who back evolution if they could be honest about it. It's a great way to explain some of the mechanisms governing complex life, but it doesn't explain either how life began or some of things we now know about life. I'm inclined to think that evolution is part of the answer, but tells us as much about the whole plot as reading a single chapter of a book would.
Mr. Giles, be very careful when venturing into this particular realm of thought. While I understand your points, I think it's impossible for a pastor/priest/vicar to carry both the cross and the flag simultaneously. "No one can serve two masters".
Your article seems to be very "in the moment" as opposed to carrying any weight of knowledge from history. Christianity is Eastern in its origins, born and grown under very oppressive political regimes…ruthless dictators, totalitarians, emperors, etc.
The church is not a stranger to troubled cultural times. If I were you, I'd worry less about the church fixing society (which is impossible), and more about the talking heads forcing pastoral leaders into roles to which they are not primarily called.
I could say more, but I'm hoping these comments will suffice.
This article is "igorant" # 2. How can you write such a thing and not interview the subject. There isn't any research. At least provide anecdotes.
My List of Reasons Why Pastors SEEM To Avoid The Culture War.
1. Priority. They have to attend the flock. This take lots and lots of time. During the week, they need to prepare for the Sunday and they have to visit the Seniors and Save Lots of Souls.
2. Following Commandments. Do not worry comes to mind.
3. Welcoming All. That means all from different backgrounds. Not all agree. Such as it is, politics can lead to division, which leads to the next point…
4. Church Bureaucracy. It is bad enough to deal in church politics. The church has a mission. Most do not have a political mandate. Why should they bother with non-relevant issues? Pastors will have to do this on their own time, if they must.
5. Money. Who going to pay for this extra curricular activity when most Pastors are not paid well. You line about "mega-church" is completely ridiculous. Many are not in such circumstances.
6. Do not have Platform. Unless it is a topic requested by congregation, it is a waste of time. Ears will be closed.
That's all I have to say.
You're right. They are.
That's odd.
Daniel was and adviser to kings and a loyal believer of the God of Israel.
Joseph (from Genesis) went from slave to Prime Minister to Egypt. Yet, he never lost his faith in and obedience to God.
So, Christians in America can and should get involved in politics while asking God for discernment. (Yes, that includes running for office if that is the Lord's will.) Chuck Colson of Prison Fellowship said it best:
“Christians need to influence politics for justice and righteousness.” But we must do so “with eyes open, aware of the snares . . . Today Christians may find themselves suspect—I have experienced this myself—to the very people on whose side they are fighting. But that is the price they must pay to preserve their independence and not be beholden to any political ideological alignment.” That’s what I wrote in 1987; that’s what I mean today.
Fasting from politics is the exact opposite of what I taught David Kuo, however. Only by continuing to fight for our beliefs, regardless of the temptations, compromises, or being called “nuts,” can we achieve the kind of moral reform and protection of human rights that Christians throughout the centuries and in every culture work for.
http://www.colsoncenter.org/the-center/columns/co...
Mike-you missed the whole point of Doug's column. Read it again. I found plenty of love. He is just expresses it differently. He's also saving a lot of souls by conveying to people what they need to hear not what they want to hear.
I am a Catholic who converted from a Protestant. My ancestors are probably rolling in their graves since they were Protestants during St. Bartholemew's massacre and had to escape. I don't know if these priests are afraid to preach non politically correct sermons or what.
I would like to know one thing. Why do Catholics and Jews in America vote for the political party that favors abortion when the preach about how hideous and wrong it is? (If someone can help me with that, I would be most appreciative.)
you have a point but he is talking to pastors after all and not the investigator or the curious unconverted.
The Separation of Chruch and State is a very Biblical Doctrine. However, what most liberals mean when they say that is that they want to separate the State from God. The Separation of Church and State is not the Separation of Morality from the Public Square. It is keeping ecclesiastical authority and the state separate from one another.
God created both the church and the state. Each will only reach its full potential when it submits to the Headship of God.
As to historical perspective, the great revivals in American Christianity – First and Second Great Awakening and the Laymans Prayer Revival – did restore morality to society and stemmed the tide toward hedonism. Our society needs to turn back the clock on morality and only a new moving of the Spirit of God through his chldren can do that.
Yeah, so? And you can make pointless comments, so congrats on that.
Because there is no good, positive reason for not fighting the culture wars.
The role of the pastor and the church is to proclaim the Gospel and to herald to me what God has made known through Scripture. The Word of God speaks to all areas of life and addresses the higher story questions which especially seem to trouble modern man – purpose of life, origins, nature of man, evil, good, etc. Do not take my word for it. Read 1 Timothy.
The pastor is a shepherd. His job is to feed and guide his flock. He feeds them the word of God and he guides them in life with the teachings of Scripture. He is to call evil, evil and to speak truth into the darkness. Failure to do so endangers his sheep and is a derelition of his duty as a shepherd.
Both excellent points. But it seems to me when politics does enter the Church its usually modern liberalism.
Before Pope Benedict became the pope, he wrote a stellar essay on just how important the boundary is between the two institutions. It was a hard read, he was very careful on what he wrote, but it was awesome analysis. He is one smart dude.
If the state becomes involved with the Church, then the Church has lost its ability to act as an objective commentator concerning the state's actions. And if the Church becomes involved with the state, the inherent evil involved in politics will pollute the Church.
When it comes to politics, my own Pastor (Roman Catholic) makes it crystal clear what the issues are, what the Church's official position on those issues are, but never has he ever said "Vote this way" or "Do not vote that way." And I've complimented him several times on this, hopefully encouraging him to stay behind that line.
He's also funny as all get out. Its amazing how many ways he can work the Yankees into a homily.
Know why the Yanks didn't make it to the world series last year? Because they wouldn't let the Pope walk on the grass.
Amen brother. I'm a cradle Catholic and as I was leaving church I noticed one of my fellow choir members had a "vote democrat" sticker on her car! How is that even possible? She's an old lady, so maybe she's thinking of the democratic party of yesteryear? I think a lot of Catholics don't do their homework, they just like the feel good messege of the left (which on the surface, is very similar to the messege of the church).
Christopher Nelson,
As a Catholic, all I'll say is: your loss.
Oh, and PS. 10 to 1 you don't know christian history.
Abortion's easy peasy compared to saying contraception and sterlization are wrong. Ever heard that in a homily? I haven't. It's dissapointing.
Bravo to you, Mr. Giles, for being audacious and candid sufficiently to write this post. Christianity IS being slowly but surely "caste beneath" in our nation and it's because few in leadership dare to speak the truth to the misleading but easy low road: say nothing, make no waves, don't upset the crowds. Which has led to Christianity being something many are aversive to today (they "don't like organized religion" which means they don't like Christianity, nearly always). A lot of why people get so turned off in a culturally-intense civilization (such as ours, such as most where "Liberalism/Socialism" runs amok) is that they find nothing substantial that relates to their culturally-intense daily lives and experiences.
The Creeping Humanism is, indeed, a dangerous thing because, on a "merely" Constitutional basis, our Freedom of Religion is and has been a driving force as to what has made our nation exist from the outset (founders escaping religious intolerance, seeking a new civilization wherein they could engage as they wished without penalty from government for doing so). Most of those were Christians if not some Deists who still identified in their goals and values-processes as Christian (the Bible influenced them heavily, is my point, even among the more Liberal such as Jefferson who would not in any way today be deemed a Liberal). What's occurring through Creeping Humanism ("man is or can be like God" or, worse, "is God") is the replacement by threat and intimidation, however subtlely but certainly culturally, of Christian-Bible-inspired values and beliefs (and practices) with, instead, "what feels good" from an often anti-Christian demand.
Most of how this happens and has occurred is by leaders in Christianity being cowered or cowed into submission by…Creeping Humanism: speaking out too directly upsets the Leftwing, the Humanists, who then threaten and taunt and, well, if you don't shout at the devil, the devil sits down and smiles at you, to be blunt (not that all the Left is the devil, but the threat to Christ and Christianity comes from only one place spiritually, and that's what I refer to).
Our Freedom of Religion was INTENDED to allow for any citizen to exercise their beliefs as they individually deemed they believed. It was never intended to REPLACE religious beliefs with a politicized correctness, or, a culturally demanded replacement of religious beliefs (and the expression and practice of them) with what would "not make waves" or upset any political faction that gains isolated momentum over others. And that is exactly what the Founders escaped and created a new nation to forge against: the demand or decision for the individual as to religious beliefs and the exercise of them (a government determining what "religion" was to be and how it was to be practiced, the "official religion" or none at all).
I note here that belief in God is not a religion, to get that argument out of the way — recognizing and honoring God in official capacity or private practice is NOT the exercise of an "official religion").
Great post. I wish we Catholics could do more to improve the American Bishops among us and the Leftwing Cafeteria catholics who run after Leftwing dogma without regard for Christian context, or, worse, who misrepresent Christ by way of Socialism (even the Vatican has spoken against Marxism as contrary to Christian theology).
Each of the efforts to subjugate Christianity to some lower caste among our nation is always traced to people who exercise their own beliefs in supremacy of, almost always, Christianity. I wonder just how free they understand they are to even raise such an argument, owed to to our Freedom of Religion.
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The world has become too "churchy" and the church has become too worldly. I love it when my pastor speaks the truth found in the Bible. I just wish more pastors were like Jesus when he found the moneychangers in the temple. He beat the hell out of them and got them out of there. In other words, He got angry. We need more angry pastors who are sick and tired of how sick and depraved society has become and will go out and kick some butt(with love, of course.)
Emma, you are so right. We are in a major battle with principalities and the supernatural. You see it happening every day, the attack on mankind by Satan and his minions. We all need the full armor of God and we must be prepared for battle. We will be at the final battle standing beside Christ when he conquers all evil in this world once for all. No ninnies need apply.
Here here LolaLola. I get so tired of the wishy washy homilies every Sunday. My only encouragement sometimes is that no matter what some cafeteria Priest says on Sunday, the church itself still stands strong and does not compromise. I'm telling you, I have been to confession before and have gotten a definate "why would you confess that?" vibe. I can't wait, bring on the revival!
The Temple in which the Holy of Holies resided was God's dwelling place on Earth. With all due respect you cannot compare the righteous anger of Christ at that time and what Mr. Giles is calling on pastors to do, which is to roll up their sleeves and jump into the bottomless pit of the Culture Wars. We (Christians) cannot win! This is not OUR world! We are just passing through and I am personally hoping to take as many of the Lost with me as I can by showing them the Love of Christ that is reflected in the Scriptures, particularly Galatians 5:22 comes to mind. Read it, memorize it, Live it!
Thanks Pastor Giles for being direct. As I have studied the Bible I have not seen anywhere in the Bible that God wants us negotiating with Evil. I see nowhere in the Bible that being a person with faith that the path is easy. God has given us a clear path to follow if we chose to, and you have pointed to that path. We may not like it, but that is our issue as man.
How true that is. It is also a cop out – and excuse to do nothing.
They'd proscribe him Ridolin!
Sounds like it hit a little too close to home.
St Paul thought that the Last Days were during his own life so who other than God really knows?
Lola – speaking somewhat tongue-in-cheek as a Protestant who knows absolutely no Latin, my all time difficult-wedding-to-attend was 40 years ago in Stockton, CA in the middle of August. I think you are from the East Coast so let me just say that Stockton, in our Central Valley CA, is 100+ all through August.
Take a large hot church with no air conditioning, hearing Latin for 2 hours in coat and tie while we are sitting and kneeling alternatively for 2 hours, and you get my opinion of Latin services
Been to many recent Catholic weddings that were far more understandable…
But I am with you on the guitar and hippy services which have also affected various Protestant churches.
The new Priest at my Catholic Church is actively preaching against Abortion, Stem Cell research, and Capital punishment as befits a Man of the Church. His name is father Feori pronounced Fury.
Pastors led the way to the War of Independence and in the fight against slavery. The First Great Awakening had a huge impact on the Revolutionary War.
Yep – it was sort of a Rhetorical question
I guess it all depends on what a Christian vs. Culture War should look like. I believe serving the needs of our communities and sharing the Gospel of Jesus with the Lost should be our strategy. The Apostle Paul won people to Christ because he lived by example. He'd blow into town, get a job right away so he was paying his own way, (tent making in his case) and with the Holy Spirit as his guide he shared the message of Christ with the Lost. Why should we allow ourselves to get mired down in an unwinnable Culture War when winning the Lost to Christ is our Commission? How do we win the Lost? See Paul's example. He certainly didn't waste his time railing against earthly governments.
Thank you for some answers to so many questions I've had of late regarding the 'fruit from the tree' of America's religious institutions; one-half of Catholic voters voted for a candidate whose position on abortion is more extreme than NARAL?
Come on, with 50% Catholic voting against their faith why is Tom Hanks so worried?
So if I accuse you of racism and you are offended can I reply "sounds like that hit a little close to home"? Flippant replies that cut both ways are a poor substitute for thoughtfulness and courtesy.
I find it tiresome when conservatives turn on each other for not being zealous enough. Who are *you* to tell me what I should be spending my time and energy doing? I thought only liberals did that sort of thing.
UM Bill yeah you aren't much up on Catholicism are you? There are actually three kinds of Latin Masses. I have been to one that lasted about an hour. One priest, and two servers. No other priests. The High Mass has I think 6 priests. That would be very long one.
Good thinking, Mr. Snerd.
Why go to great lengths and twist your beliefs into a pretzel shape to reconcile the sketchy concept of Biblical Creationism with the brutally obvious concept of Evolution? It might be easier on everyone and more accurate to renounce Creationism.
By the way, embracing Evolution isn't the same as endorsing the big bang theory or any origin-of-life theory. Evolution pretty much just starts with life and goes from there, instead of guessing what happened to cause life.
How ironic? That the good pastor didn't take on the FALSE RELIGION of catholicism? LMAO
Kettle? Pot here. You're black.
Lemme tell you, pastors have it easy. They're SUPPOSED to talk crazy, so they have a built-in excuse for anything they say. What's tough is being a Conservative atheist, when (practically) every other atheist you know is in favor of abortion, and willingly swallows the Democrat party line on Healthcare, Cap and Trade, and every other hopey-changey (thanks, Mr. Steyn) piece of BS.
That's easy, take one political party with absolutely zero morals, add in one MSM completely in the bag, stir for 60 years, and you get "the party of compassion" vs. the "party of hatred for the poor."
I am not very religious and I frankly have little respect for organized religion in America, for the exact reasons that Mr Giles mentions. Why would I want to be a member of an organization or group that refuses to defend its own standards and interest? Catholics overwhelmingly support democrats who are pro abortion, and anti- well, anit virtually everyting that the church is supposed to support. Yet, the church still fawns over people like the late Ted Kennedy. And how is it that Pelosi is allowed anywhere near a Cahtolic Church? I grew up in a town with many Mormons, and while their beliefs are not mine, I always respected how honest and well behaved most of them were. They actually seemed to strive to live up to their church's standards. When other religious institutions in America start living up to their own standards and demanding same from their members, I will start to respect them as well.
I can't say for sure, but I think Samuel Adams was a preacher.
I figured it was but I wanted to comment for the benefit of the leftists who don't know the history of their country. Best.
That's what we do at our Catholic Church. Respect for life from conception to natural end. Life is a gift from God, and it's not for man to take away.
To be clear, I also oppose capitol punishment on moral grounds, we have the technology to put animals away for good. But since we live in a country where the majority of people appear to support it, I abide by the majority, even if I don't agree, and work to convince people to change their position.
The Catholic Church is a bit more diverse than that. It's a stereo type, one with a solid foundation, which is why I won't say you're incorrect. There are a lot of extremely liberal people in the Church today.
My sister fondly recalls the time the Priest wore combat boots during Mass, he'd literally just got back from National Guard duty and he was wearing his fatigues under his vestments. Also, the US military is considered it's own Catholic Diocese with it's own Bishop.
The two main bastions of liberalism in the Church today, in my opinion, are the social justice movement, and liberation theology. I once commented to my pastor exactly what I thought of liberation theology, its nothing but Marxism in Christian terms. He completely agreed.
I guess all I'm saying is, not all us Catholics are like Rev. Flager from Chicago. Trust me.
I wrote a book, "The Identities of God and Man" because a) none of us really know what we are, b) none of us really know what God is and c) The Creator explained all of this a long time ago. We stopped listening/understanding shortly after he explained it.
goto jakesbooks.net to see excerpts and get a copy, if you dare.
although, it's impossible for a society to be "moral" for any extended period of time. And honestly, the hope that you're talking about for a "new moving of the Spirit of God" can only happen IN the church. God doesn't work through any particular government…the church is universal. There may be Christians working IN the government, but the government cannot be "Christian"…the Pilgrims ran away from England because of how horrible their "Christian" government was.
The truth hurts, and this post apparently struck a nerve with you. The truth is that more often than not I go to churches where the pastors and congregations are more concerned with how catchy the music is and whether they have coffee shops built into their foyers than whether they're actually helping people find Christ. They're people who are more concerned with church being a social club or a business.
Just out of curiosity, do you also think that parents aren't being loving by disciplining their kids, or angrily having a talk with them about what they should and shouldn't do? Their actions are motivated by love, just like the poster's article is. Your problem with this post is that you're likely not part of the solution, so this is hitting close to home in a particular way with you. Don't worry though – given time, you'll absolve yourself of any guilt you feel and you'll feel fine again.
Since you are a catholic, 10 to 10 you do not know christian history.
2 Corinthians 6:14 , Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
Jesus was sent to save men from sin. And the bible teaches against false religions and beliefs, like the groups you mentioned have in them. The bible is God's perfect word {2 Timothy 3:16}. The bible is to be taken in plain terms, and literal where literal, such as Genesis for instance. The bible is always fact, and it always literal where it is literal.
It is not about religion or a specific denomination. It is about being biblically accurate. Following the word of God, the fundamentals, accepting the bible as your guide, following what it says. There is only one true path, and that is through Christ as savior. Neither religion, denomination, baptism, good works, church, behavior will save a man, but it is faith alone in Grace alone. Jesus alone will save a man. But one must follow the word of God to be biblically accurate. Alot of churches do not, they put man made traditions before the bible. To find a good church you must see if they are biblical. Some non denominational, independent baptist, a few non charismatic penecostal, maybe some presbyterian, depends tho.
There is nothing proven about evolution, it is an atheist's made up religion. Homosexuality have no rights to be homosexual under God. God did not make anyone homosexual, sin does. It is not a tall order for God to preserve his word. He said that he would, and he will.
For an atheist to have any rational values is absurd, much less conservative ones. To an atheist who is consistant, the world is random and pointless. We are no better then animals, goo to you in millions of magical years. Nothingess made us, we have no purpose, no God watching us. There is no logical reason to do anything, much more anything moral, since moral does not exist in an atheist's world. To an atheist, murder, rape, molesting, stealing, all part of evolution, and all part of survival of the fittest, which is what evolution requires, take what you want and the weak must die. Atheism is illogical, and a moral atheist must always borrow their belief system from God who is logical and created all things logically.
Good article.
I wish Pastor Giles hadn't used the unfortunate phrase "man-pleaser." I keep thinking of Ted Haggard now.
Well, I guess you really told me off. Boy, is my face red!!
Do you think it's too late to rush back to the church? To swear undying devotion to the Guy in the Sky? To guarantee unswerving watchfulness against the Foe from Below? To maybe learn how to speak in tongues?
What's that? You say it IS TOO LATE? Ah, well, that's all right. I'll just stick with the truth, no matter how unpleasant.
My personal favorites are those who roll about in the aisles, under the influence of the Holy Spirit. I've always wondered what the Biblical basis is for that behavior. I can remember being scared to death at some of those events.
My aunt used to do that, and she didn't always remember to wear panties to the services. Once, when she fell out in the aisle, my brother remarked, sarcastically yet accurately, "Hell, that there ain't worshippin'. That there's advertisin'."
A guy in my school could speak in tongues, but he was an idiot in every other regard. Well, he had a beautiful sister, so I chummed up to him, anyhow.
Great article! But I fear it is wasted here in Los Angeles where you have churches like agape which seem to be more a source for networking in the industry than actually helping people come to know and build personal relationships with God.
'Nuff said.
I love to hear those concepts mixed together: Less or no abortion, and more adoptions!
It's a very possible concept, if we each examine our hearts. The pro-abortion crowd doesn't want to hear that there are negative consequences to abortions. Beside the obvious one, death to the developing infant, there are a host of other terrible results.
It makes me want to start a group, Atheists Against Abortion, and stand with my Conservative Christian brothers and sisters on this issue. There is much else that can be common ground, private charities, for instance, between atheists and Christians. All it requires, I think, is wishing and planning for it to be so.
I love to hear those concepts mixed together: Less or no abortion, and more adoptions!
It's a very possible concept, if we each examine our hearts. The pro-abortion crowd doesn't want to hear that there are negative consequences to abortions. Beside the obvious one, death to the developing infant, there are a host of other terrible results.
It makes me want to start a group, Atheists Against Abortion, and stand with my Conservative Christian brothers and sisters on this issue. There is much else that can be common ground (private charity work, for instance) between atheists and Christians. All it requires, I think, is wishing and planning for it to be so.
Christopher Nelson– you'll be very surprised when you get to heaven and see who else is there. I wonder what Martin Luther– one of the most brilliant theologians of his time and ours– will say to you.
Ugh, it's self-righteous morons like yourself that probably kept me away from Republicans and conservatism for a long time. It was only when I was able, via the internet, to interact with the more "reasonable" and less judgmental Christian conservatives did I realize that your ilk doesn't really run this side of the aisle.
As a former Catholic and an agnostic Conservative, I find your judgmental, bigoted words to be offensive (although I'll defend your right to say them anyway). I think everyone here has covered much else I was going to say.
One last thing: if everyone else thinks everyone else is wrong, who is right? How can a human being ever truly know which is the "right way". My thought is that there are many ways to God (although I don't discount atheists either, HumanPersonJr. I respect your position as well). And that people like you are going to get a big surprise at the end of it all when God knocks you upside your head and asks you why you were so hateful and judgmental of your fellow Christians.
And you give the rest of us Conservatives a bad name.
I think he owned a tavern but might have been the descendant of preacher stock.
I would agree that the movement must begin in the church and then spread to society at large. All the revivals I mentioned confronted the moral decay in society and spoke God's Word into the darkness. Mr. Giles is not calling for the government to institute religion. He is calling for pastors to speak the Word of God into the darkness of our society rather than compromise with evil.
The Pilgrims fled a Christian government but when they arrived in North America they immediately set up a Christian government. They did not believe in the separation of church and state. They felt the government and church in England was not pure enough so they left.
If you have answered God's call to pastor, then you should know that following God means keeping his commands.
If you are just a neighbor standing by and not saying anything–you will answer to God.
If you have taken an oath to uphold God's commands, and you stand by and don't say anything–you will answer seven-fold.
Sounds like your sister's pastor has wondered too far from earth.
I'm glad you brought up the money changers, because it is a great example of righteous anger. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Let's not forget Reverend Dr. Martin Martin Luther King Jr. The Civil Rights Movement started in churches, and was led by pastors who were leaders, not pacifists.
There was so much more to his sermons than "Jesus Loves you." We need that in sermons, but we also need more. Jesus Himself said He came to bring division, and sometimes we need to be conscious of what that division is.
Don't get me wrong, there are issues which I would hold above it, after all I do think these people do Deserve Death for the most part. I simply think that it's not our right to take someones life if we can merely incarcerate them for life. I'm willing to break with most Conservatives on that, espiecally since it stops Liberals from Calling me a Hypocrite.
As a Catholic myself, 50% of Catholics in America, are Heretics. Yeah that's right, I used the bad word. But its an awesome word too.
Heretics, Bam I said it again.
The typical liberal response: labeling disagreement as hate. Getting beyond grade school feelings and exercising the intellect with analysis, logic, and rational thought is apparently too difficult. It's so much easier to whine "hate", call names, and distract from the matter at hand. To childishly assume that ("Odd, Obama promotes peace, diplomacy and respect for other countries as foreign policy and you berate him. You've obviously missed the nuance of his face to the world, perhaps you'd rather he just bomb another country?") foreign policy can be reduced two simplistic strawman alternatives speaks volumes about your understanding of the complexities of international relations or life as an adult.
I've never heard of a "Cafeteria Mormon" or "Cafeteria Jehovah's Witness." As a Catholic, I disagree with much of the theology of these faiths, but I do feel a tinge of envy they they get to belong to a church that values following it's teachings.
Rick, God bless you for the very important job you are doing. It sounds like you are a good and faithful servant and that is all that matters.
This, in specific, is a crucial element in quieting not only meaningful debate, but in shutting "undesirable" talk altogether. Granted, there has always been a notion held by polite society that one should never discuss religion or politics with strangers, but political correctness has led us (as a society) to a place where any suggestion that one should alter one's behavior or beliefs is taken as a personal slight. Constructive, critical examination of ideas is crucial to not only the way our nation has historically worked, but how the Gospel is sometimes carried to others. As followers of Christ, we cannot afford to be cowed into silence because those we speak to might call us "hateful". It's the same way that some on the Left have tried to stop criticism of President Obama – they call us "racist", and hope to shame the speaker into silence (or, at the least, discredit their character).
Bear in mind that many, many centuries before Political Correctness, ancient Romans criticized Christians for what they called "hatred of humanity". There's nothing new under the sun, folks.
Thank you Mr. Giles for raising the issue. In its essence the culture war is between objective truth and moral relativism. God is truth, and those who shepherd the people of God should promote His objective truth. Moral relativism is the antithesis of objective truth. The essence of moral relativism, is the humanist assumption that man, of his own volition can determine "truth", ie. what is right and wrong. In earlier times, this subjective determination of truth was recognized as Original Sin, prideful disobedience of God's commandments. Forthrightly defending God's commandments, and drawing the line in the sand, is the appropriate role of His priests and pastors.
[...] Giles has a provocative piece on why pastors avoid the culture [...]
The thing is, though, that it's far more likely that either a) everyone is wrong or b) only one way is right than it is that many are right. If God exists, he has certain characteristics. The only way I can really know anything specific about his character is if he reveals it to me. The Bible says that some of his character is revealed through the natural world around us (considering the amazing scale of stellar objects and the beauty of nature, I think it does indeed say a lot about him), and he says that he's written his laws on our hearts. But in terms of specifics, there's a lot I wouldn't know if he didn't tell me himself. The claims of the Bible are that he did, in fact, describe himself to us, and quite thoroughly enough to discern the true God from false perceptions of him or outright fabrications.
Even if the majority of the world's religions agreed, Jesus himself claimed that he was unique, and that he was the only way to God. He approved the Old Testament as reliable. That doesn't leave a lot of room for the "blind men and the elephant" analogy…unless Christianity is completely false.
It seems that there is a certain amount of "wiggle room" doctrinally speaking – I think Christopher Nelson is mistaken in discounting Catholics as part of the Body of Christ; they wholly accept the Apostles' Creed, which summarizes the core tenets of Christianity. Having said that, the Church of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) presents a Jesus very different from the one recorded in the Bible; though many names and terms remain the same, their definitions differ. Like the Jehovah's Witnesses, the model of salvation they present is alien to that of a gift of grace through faith in Christ.
As a political movement, Conservatives would be fools to reject Mormons and obedient Catholics. We are fighting for many of the same things. But Christian pastors cannot afford to pretend that there are no issues with their beliefs; they are contending not only for temporal results, but eternal ones.
As a last comment, when you accuse Christopher Nelson of being a "self-righteous moron" and "hateful and judgmental", are you not committing the same sin that the original article is condemning? I may have missed it, but I didn't see him say anything outright "hateful". He's generally been backing up his accusations with argumentation, but I haven't seen him slinging any personal insults.
As a final comment, when you accuse Christopher Nelson of being a "self-righteous moron" and "hateful and judgmental", it seems at odds with what you're condemning him for. I may have missed it, but while I don't agree with all of his points, I haven't seen him say anything outright "hateful". He's generally been backing up his accusations with argumentation, but he hasn't slung any personal insults that I've noticed.
Not to mention that Jesus' parables of the Faithful Servant (Luke 12:35-48) and of the Talents (Matthew 25:14–30, Luke 19:11–27) specifically direct us to be *working* until Jesus' return.
ladykrystyna, you're too kind to mention this human person, junior grade.
I swear to you, I strive for high moral character every day. I just want to stand beside my Conservative brothers and sisters, whether they're Christian, agnostic or atheist. I really don't care. This country means so much to so many (not just Americans, either). We have saved the world more than once, and saved countless individuals in the process, while giving of our blood and treasure to do it.
This is not a perfect country, but it is the most morally upright in the history of the world, IMHO.
I don't dare.
I'm guessing that you consider the Bible to be hogwash for the most part, rather than an accurate record of individuals' encounters with God across the centuries. If it were the former, I entirely sympathize with your concern.
Still, I would tend to consider the comparison of Christianity to the murderous delusions of a single madman as a bit of a stretch.
Yet, clearly, there *are* those who are in it for the money, as we've seen from past abuses by certain televangelists. How much money is generated by Joel Osteen's megachurch? He refuses to talk about sin in any regard; he himself points to that fact as a reason for his church's popularity and success.
I think the articles' points are still valid.
I agree that it's a difficult position. We are in the unique position of living under a form of government that requires our participation; thus a certain degree of religious involvement in the government is inescapable. And the Church must always be faithful to God above any other affiliation, even if it means opposing the same state that they've supported in the past.
I think your pastor is following an excellent path: make the flock aware of what is right and what is wrong; they should be able to work out the rest from there.
And despite the fact that I believe he would consider me a heretic for being a Protestant, I have mondo respect for Pope Benedict.
How many pastors in the past were at the forefront of Indsependence around 1774-1776?
Or railed against the evil of slavery in 1850s-1861?
Why is there ALWAYS idiots out there that choose to pick fights amongst brothers…fellow Christians. (I am Catholic) Idiot…the Godless Materialists, Secular Humanists, Genderists(Feminists) Marxists and Post-Modernists are the people attacking your way of life and you choose to pick a "DEMONATIONAL FIGHT"? Are you an IDIOT? WAKE UP! I shall quote J.R.R Tolkien's "The Hobbit". Setting: End of book and the Battle of 5 armies is about to begin. The Humans, the Elves and the Dwarves are all about to go to war over who gets the Dragon Smaug's Gold….when "Gandalf" the wizard meets them on the battlefield and interupts the melee before it starts with these wise words. "DOOM TAKE YOU ALL…Behold the Goblins have come down from the mountains and WARGS are in their trail…coming to DESTROY YOU ALL."
It is only upon those words that the all realize that they are really brothers and the true enemy is coming to destroy them all at once. A House Divided….
GET A CLUE NELSON….we can argue over the theological differences sometime in the future…we have common enemies attacking us. Its time for "Ecumenical Jihad" to commence.
Chris,
Do you realize that the Catholic Church compiled the Bible that you refer too? Wake up brother I am on your side.
Rick, face it, you are called to be God's Shepherds and you have FAIILED MISERABLY to guard his flock. MILLSTONE…Take offense all you want. I'm tired of the "Barney the Dinosaur" Sermons coming from people like you. EVERY POINT…and I mean EVERYPOINT made in this article is accurate. I don't CARE if your conservative….the other guy is right. Shut up and get back to work…the LAITY is doing your job for you…and we are getting REALLY REALLY SICK OF IT. We HAVE to work in the Secular world, with bosses and bankers, who could make life tough for our families, if we say the wrong thing? You….YOU CAN ARGUE FROM A POSITION OF STRENGTH…THAT OF THE CHURCH…FROM INSIDE THE WALLS OF THE CHURCH…and you instead you send the laity out to fight your battles while you give us sermons that Fred Rogers from Mr. Roger's Neighborhood could deliver to any 2 year old….. DO WHAT YOU WERE CALLED TO DO… WUSSINESS MASQUERADING AS CHARITY IS NOT CHARITY….ITS WUSSINESS
Mike,
The problem with your post is not that it's wrong but that it's unfair. You can't cherry-pick the gospels selectively as if it were Roget's Thesaurus and employ the fragments when it's convenient to your value system. Prophets speak hard truths. There is a place for prophets in the church just as there is a place for shepherds. The church accomodates all simultaneously because all are necessary.
That is the problem, you are not sticking with the truth. You are sticking with a lie, that deep down in your heart you know is a lie. It is never too late for a person to accept Jesus, no matter what they have done.
I would report your Priest to the Bishop…if the Bishop is sympathetic I would report this to the Vatican. You have a right to protest these things through channels. I would also bring a video camera to mass and tape the liberal homilies and put it on you tube and the link to various catholic blogs. Watch the sparks fly when you get evidence of these heresies. We are told to accept people as human beings…someones sexual compulsion is not who they are as a person…this is not their defining characterstic. Compassion yes…acceptance No.
Mine very much had a point – it's unfortunate that you couldn't figure it out, though. Apparently I struck a nerve, though, so by all means keep going if it makes you feel good about yourself.
The catholics did not write the bible. They did not give us the bible. The Roman Catholic church has had only one aim from its earliest, pagan and political origins: To destroy the true Christians, and to destroy their Bible. That is why they substituted the corrupt Alexandrian perversions of scripture, instead of using the preserved, prophetic and apostolic Words of God as found in Antioch of Syria, where "the disciples were first called Christians" (Acts 11:26). That is why they also added the Alexandrian writings we now call "Apocrypha" to their perverted bibles.
Devin, thank you for your reply.
I'm too much of a worrier, of this I'm sure. I wish I could fully explain my thoughts and feelings about Christians and the potential dangers they pose to the world. Let me quickly add this: Left-wingers are far more dangerous.
I just wrote a paragraph, then backspaced over it. I'm not doing well with my explanation. I'm gonna close with this: I don't believe any false belief is harmless. These kinds of fantasies insulate people, and make them think they're supernatural beings who can survive after death. I think that some people, given that certainty of survival following physical death, could find themselves willing to commit some pretty bad acts for the glory of God.
Of course, there would need to be a bit of mental illness in the mix, but many would say that you be religiously devout without being at least a little bit off.
Devin, thank you for your reply.
I'm too much of a worrier, of this I'm sure. I wish I could fully explain my thoughts and feelings about Christians and the potential dangers they pose to the world. Let me quickly add this: Left-wingers are far more dangerous.
I just wrote a paragraph, then backspaced over it. I'm not doing well with my explanation. I'm gonna close with this: I don't believe any false belief is harmless. These kinds of fantasies insulate people, and make them think they're supernatural beings who can survive after death. I think that some people, given that certainty of survival following physical death, could find themselves willing to commit some pretty bad acts for the glory of God.
Of course, there would need to be a bit of mental illness in the mix, but many would say that you can't be religiously devout without being at least a little bit off.
Martin Luther might not be in heaven. Altho if he is, hopefully without sin he is no longer a jew hater. Not to mention his other countless unbiblical beliefs. Since he believed in baptism for salvation, his theology of Sacramentalism, I don't know if he was ever saved. I will be shocked if i do meet him.
Thanks for replying, Christopher Nelson.
If I get the religious urge (not possible), I think I'll go with another deity, rather than Jesus. Thanks, though, for letting me know it's never too late to accept Jesus.
I can see from your words that you have a severe case of what ails you. I think your religion is deeply ingrained and that it is absolutely too late for you to turn away from your wicked, humorless, Bible-spouting ways. I will hope for you, nonetheless.
I will read your comments, but will not reply further. I perceive you as hate-filled and just a wee tad loony, a bad combo, for sure. I've enjoyed as much of this as I can stand.
The bible requires a christian to be honest and judge accurately. I have done nothing unbiblical by telling you the biblical truth. Would you rather i lie to you and sugar coat reality? "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"{Gal. 4:16}. The truth can be quite offensive to thos who do not like it. Jesus's own words offends many people. A christian will offend those who do not like the truth. That is how it must go, I am not a man pleaser. The bible tells us what is the right way, no one has to guess, and everything i said can be looked up. The bible never says that there are multiple ways to God, only one, and that is Jesus. Unless a person is saved then they are not my fellow christian. Plus, why would a christian not want to be biblical? If conservatives have a bad name, it is because they lack their backbones, and do not follow through. That is not my fault.
Again, atheism and morality don't go together. You borrow it from Christianity. You want to be an atheist ,but not live up to the reality of atheism, and where it logically leads to. This world is temporary and fading fast. You have your sights set on the wrong goal.
What is a "wide view of prop 8?" Opposition to legalized gay "marriage" is one of the five non-negotiables. It seems that the only "wide view" permissible is that Proposition 8 should be widely implemented.
I have to be honest. Unless a person be born again, he is no christian. This means faith alone in Grace alone. Catholicism is not christian, and it never will be. Not said to be hateful, I say it to be honest. You must get a clue and read what the bible says about issues, not what some Hobbit says about them. Ecumenical thought is not biblical and I will not partake in it. If we share the same enemies then fine. But I can't lie just so as to not upset you or other people. I will speak truth against those groups and other groups. The truth will set you free.
You have free will. You can choose to go with any false god that you wish to go with, including yourself. But it will only lead you to a path of sorrow in the end. Atheism is wicked, bible spouting is not. I have no hate for you, I only wish to correct your errors. Not humorless either. A rabbi, a priest and a hooker walk into a bar. See, that is funny. But, I am always happy to correct you, and others, when it is needed. Call me captain correction.
HPJ (for short
), I have known people of many different Christian faiths, of Jewish faith, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Wiccans (yup, even them), agnostics and atheists and I have found one universal truth – their faith, or alleged faith, often did not always instruct their character. I have met atheists who have more morality in their little finger than some Christians I have met. You get my meaning.
Nelson is a Born Again Christian, which (and I hate to continue the denominational bashing) is usually peopled with HYPOCRITES. I have met only ONE that actually was non-judgmental and kept her religious opinions pretty much to herself and was kind and good to me, even though I'm an agnostic.
My mom worked with 2 Born Agains and they were both the biggest hypocrites you ever want to meet.
I have no tolerance for intolerance, if that makes any sense.
HPJ, the fact that you have conservative principles and you are NOT religious; the fact that you stand by your fellow Christian conservatives (Nelson notwithstanding), shows that atheists are capable of moral character. You are probably more Christian than Nelson is – Christian meaning "Like Christ" and you seem a lot like Christ – loving and non-judgmental.
Keep fighting the good fight. The rest of us have your back!
Blah, blah blah. Even the devil can quote Scripture. You are INTOLERANT of anyone that does not believe as you believe. That is antithetical to the American way of life.
As Thomas Jefferson said, and I paraphrase: Whether a man believes in one God and or many gods, neither picks my pocket nor does me harm.
That is the American Way. People like you are what make leftists think of Christian Taliban – it's your way or the highway instead of leaving people to believe what they will since it neither picks your pocket nor does you harm.
Get off your high horse. I believe there is a parable in the Bible where Jesus pointed out the difference between the really pious who prayed in a quiet private way, and those that want everyone to see them pray and act holy. Guess which one Jesus favored?
Good post. But it is lost on most Born Agains like Nelson. They think that their poop is ice cream. All of their past sins are washed away and now that they are Born Again they can never do any wrong since they have accepted Christ as their savior. I've seen these people in action and they are mostly hypocrites. So far, I've only met one that was not (and she is a sweetheart and a good person).
All he can concentrate on is the Bible and how he's right and you're wrong. He can't see his own stupidity.
Reminds me of a joke a priest told (and my mom told to the Born Again at work who looked like he would just have a heart attack!): A bunch of people die and go up to Heaven and St. Peter gives them a tour. Heaven is full of doors and St. Peter takes the newbies to each door and opens them, stating very loudly and clearly, respectively: This room is the Methodists; this one is the Buddhists; this one is the Muslims, etc. He gets to the final door and he whispers to the tour group: This one is the Catholics. One of the newbies asked: St. Peter why are you whispering? St. Peter answered: "Because they think they're the only ones up here!"
Great article! I am believing more & more that Satan has been putting leaders in the church who just say they are believers so that people are being led away from God. Others Satan wants there because they have no backbone & he knows they won't work for God. I have 2 brother-in-laws who are pastors who aren't afraid to preach the Word of God & stand up for Biblical principles.
I'm a devoted Clash Radio listener, so it's great to see you here on BH as well!
Thank you for being out there in the culture war. As you've said here, few people – especially pastors/religious leaders are doing so.
Well, that connotation does explain the reticence of some pastors on certain topics.
I couldn't disagree with Doug Giles and this article more.
A faithful pastors only priority is the preaching of the gospel of salvation from sin and satan in the person and work of Christ. Faithful pastors then in bringing the gospel will preach/teach conservative principles which are biblical, good and true with which congregants are empowered through salvation to live those truths in their community and the world. Change from within that is then reflected in the world.
Gods strategy for societal change then is from the inside out. The problems of society steam from the hearts of men as they seek to fulfill their wicked desires; only with the change of the heart will there be true change in life and in society. The front line then in the battle for our country as founded is not on the great lawn or steps of capital hill but the hearts of men and ONLY the gospel, which is the power of God unto salvation, can change the heart. I dare say then that pastors being so heavenly minded are of the utmost worldly good.
Pastors who trust God know that God changes society with a "heart first" methodology. Change takes root in the heart and the fruit of that changed heart is a citizen that loves God, his neighbor, life, freedom, hard work, and overall Christian morality.
God is logical and the role faithful pastors play in not being social activist demonstrates the logic of Gods "heart first" way of bringing about real and true change. Consider that some of the countries most vocal, corrupt, liberal spokespersons are clergy; Al Shapton, Jessie Jackson, Rev. Wright. Consider the ills of liberation theology – at it's heart a scheme to use the church and the gospel in a socialist attempt to rule society. Consider the folly of the social gospel. There is no true lasting change bought about when clergy work to establish secular institutions as these institutions quickly become bastardized by the secular citizens it was established to change. In other words, you can put a dress on a pig but it is still a pig. The whole notion of social justice owes much of it's origins to denominations, churches, and clergy misunderstanding their role in Gods plan for their engagement in bringing about positive changes in society. Again consider the radical and many times violent behavior of the anti-abortion "Christian" activist movement. The problem encountered by such groups arise out of the fact that societal institutions like the government and abortion clinics have no heart with which to change. The only true power of the clergy is the gospel but you can't speak the gospel to nameless faceless institutions — only to individual hearts. Therefore when "Christian" anti-abortion proponents realize how powerless the gospel is to change institutions they leave off the gospel and gradually become more and more animated, radical and violent til there's practically no difference between the church and Code Pink.
What is needed is not for pastors to become more socially active, they already are… but that's not their role. Far too many pastors are running day cares, gyms, birthing clinics, soup kitchens, job training courses — you name it, much of it right out of the church. Nope, what is needed is more pastors preaching the gospel, day in and day out, trusting God to change the hearts of men as He has promised to do by His gospel.
What we need is not more social programs or social activists out of the church, but changed hearts. (Eze. 36:26) That is the mission of the faithful pastor, that is the goal of the gospel and it spells the end of even a need for social activism and institutions. The ambitions of any social activist are nothing compared to the goal and aims of the faithful pastor.
Chris,
That's fine…There are plenty of intelligent orthodox theologians, biblical scholars and others who would of course disagree. I believe your sense of "Truth Telling" is misplaced. I believe I am a Christian, a Catholic Christian. I am always willing to hear why someone may think I am not. In the meantime, we have bigger fish to fry. My suggestion is to make friends with those who believe in God and how we can work together to confront the culture than attack them. You and I have a lot more in common than….you and Scarlett Johanssen. Lets set our sites on the pagans not each other right now.
Christoper,
Whoever picked what version, for whatever reason, it was done by the Catholic church. I'm not gonna argue. I am ultimately on your side. If you want to convert me…I will give you a listen, but you are not thinking right. You have more in common with me than those who own the culture right now. Jesus and the Bible in general also taught "Prudence" which is a virtue. There is a time and place for everything and you picking fights with your friends right now is not Prudent.
I would have to agree with Christopher to a point on this one.
1. Western Atheists are living on the borrowed capital of 2000 years of Judeo-Christian influence on the culture and they don't know it
2. Just because you "Feel" you are a moral person…doesn't mean you understand where your morals and ethics came from
3. Ask yourself where they came from? Are they intrinsic? If so, explain to me the Darwinian Evolutionary process that created them? Most Atheists believe Scientific Naturalism is the only way to explain the world so…explain where these morals and ethics came from? You can't explain it.
4. Self-Righteous Atheism..deluded as it is, make a serious fundamental flaw..their doctrine usually has to deal with…"The Doctrine of Being Nice"…as long as your "Nice" than that is all that counts. The problem is LadyKrystyna you don't understand that all it takes is a little push and you could be as evil as Stalin. That's understanding human nature…on a drop of a dime we can create great evil even the most unsuspecting of us. Orthodox Christians understand this…today's I'm-okay-your-okay pop culture worshipers and Dawkins/Hitchens disciples do not.
5. Watch The Dark Knight again…The Joker is right…."If things don't go according to plan in society…all it takes is a little push and people will turn into animals".
One of the satisfactions of being in ministry is that no matter how many people — such as a good chunk of those commenting on this post — know how to do my job better than I do, I rarely have to worry about more than a baby's handful of them actually doing it.
That joke is told about the Mormons too. Wonder what denomination was the first punch line.
If I remember correctly, he inherited a distillery from his father, and was so busy preaching and the revolution, he essentially ran it into the ground.
His cousin John Adams was cool, contemplative one, Sam was the hot headed one always on the move.
I started reading a book on founding fathers a couple of years ago, but it was really a trudge, so I never did finish it. I think I was on Sam Adams when I gave up.
He has. He was part of weekly demonstrations against Bush and Iraq, that seemed to have disappeared since Bush left office.
Four idiots, who dubbed themselves the "St. Pat's 4" because they staged a protest on St. Pat's day. The got a bucket of blood, and threw it in a remote rural recruiting office. Real manly stuff. When the government pressed charges, they went bat shit crazy on the publicity.
Their original plan was to turn the trial into a farce, mock trial of Bush and the Iraq war. The judge said not a chance, and they were sentenced to about 4 months each in jail. My sister's priest was one of their biggest backers.
It's than damn liberation theology. The idea is Jesus so hated injustice that he would approve of people breaking his teachings, in his name, as long as they have the word "justice" in their name. It's where all these Peace and Justice committees in the Church come from. But they're nothing but socialists.
Wonderful article!
That's pretty much the way I view it, except I could care less what liberals call me. They have the market cornered on hypocrisy. I'll not waste my time justifying myself to them.
He wouldn't consider you a heretic. They Church is very much into interfaith relationships these days. All the various denominations work together on the county Council of Churches, the food pantries, disaster relief, and even hospital chaplains.
Late last winter, there was a mass killing around here, nut job with a couple of semi-automatic pistols. Truly horrible. Listening to the homilies afterward, I learned there's a county wide chaplain corp., where all the denominations all sync up to move in and provide aid. They were all working together in shifts to aid survivors and families of the deceased. They even had Muslim Imams involved. Many of the victims were Muslims.
Despite the horrible tragedy, it was good knowing all these religious people of different faiths, all working together for the greater good.
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The concerns here are understandable but remember this:
Christ changed hearts. Supernatural, divine change of hearts.
A changed heart leads to changed thinking and behavior and thus a changed society. If it is political preaching you want then why not join your local Townhall forum and skip the Sunday church visit. As for conforming to knee-jerk conservatism where we all must proove ourselves by goose stepping on Sunday morning. No Thank You. My conservative thinking does not need to be preached to on Sunday morning and even if I agree with the politics of my pastor I will not sit through his political lectures.
Ask yourself; ' who do you say Christ is?'. Answer the question by studying his life and his Word. The book of John is a good place to start.
Read Book- Snakes in the pulpit.. http://www.reubenarmstrongshow.com
Thank you! I couldn't agree with you more.
The bible requires all christians to be born again. John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." I have no tolerance for idiots who do not know what the bible says, and run their mouths in ignorance of the truth. You know how you avoid being a hypocrite, you never take a stand on anything. Liberals like the term hypocrite because they never take a stand on morality. It is a coput, an excuse to do wrong and ignore people who tell you the truth. Here is a list for you, let me keep my beliefs to myself. Muslim, wiccan, buddhist, hindu, all false religions with people heading for hell. Now how about that? They are ALL WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Including your own ignorant self. Repent and accept Christ. God bless.
What morals? They must be borrowed. Where do they come from, out of space perhaps? Made up humanistic morals? Try to think for once in your life in a logical way. Atheism is devoid of morality because of what they accept to be true. You are devoid of logic, but you can still learn if you try. Instead of throwing shallow insults out without knowing what you are actually saying. Stop being an idiot and try to retain some knowledge. Jesus was not, I repeat not, non judgemental. He was not always loving either. Your unbiblical, made up Jesus never lived. It is a fantasy for someone who is shallow and doesn't read the bible.
Funny that you mention intolerant. Was Jesus intolerant when he said that people must believe like him? That he is the only way to the father? When he said to go and sin no more? Was he intolerant also? Are you intolerant in your own made up way because you do not like my precise opinion on biblical matters? Is a cop intolerant when he arrests a criminal? If i kill a man breaking into my house am i intolerant of thieves? The point is, you must be intolerant of bad behavior, as Jesus was. A christian must be intolerant, absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!
Thomas Jefferson is not the one who you will answer to when you die. Thomas Jefferson is not your God. Thomas Jefferson did not make you. Thomas Jefferson was just another sinful man who was most likely unsaved.
I am not forcing you to believe what you don't want to believe. You confuse me telling you something with me forcing you to do something. You are being illogical again. Like a liberal for instance. They hate christians with strong opinions also. You prefer a cotton candy, milly mouth, yellow, spinless type of christian. One who will not challenge and correct you. That is not me, sorry.
Don't quote any parables in the bible when you attack me for quoting the bible and telling you it's truth, you HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!, you like that word, now wear it.
You are being intolerant and hateful. That is not very nice and atheistically moral of you.
Illogical joke told by an illogical person. There is no religion in heaven.
As a semi-retired pastor, I appreciate Mr. Giles comments, but have some problems with the conclusions. While I always preached against social evils that were without ambiguity evil, that is not a good pastor's primary function. It is to help each individual grow towards full maturity in his relationship to God. The custom of liberal pastors in identifying all shiny new ideas as the will of God and the liberal wing of the Democratic party as the kingdom of God on earth is repulsive. The custom of conservative pastors, of which I am one, doing the same for their ideas and the Republican party is not necessarily an improvement. I am more likely to tell how the evil in our society– abortion, pornography, greed, coldness of the heart, dishonesty of all sorts, sloth, worship of government, and gossip (right up in the top ten list in the NT) destroys the relationship with God and with others. Is God a conservative? He surely seems to lean that way in the Scriptures and the story of his people, but I wouldn't bet my life on how he is registered to vote.
I agree with this – priests, pastors, rabbis should preach about truth – consistently and constantly.
However, it is not only up to the them to change to the way things are done. Everyone listening to the pastors, priests and rabbis preach has a responsibility to put the truth into action. Too many people will not move unless they're following the pastor, priest, etc. We all need to take on the responsibility of fixing the problems in culture today – and it's not easy, but it is also not acceptable to sit on the sidelines while society is threatened by radical ideas. There is so much being threatened, i.e. marriage, families, children, education, etc., and to sit there and think there is nothing you can do is bogus. Inform yourself, form a group, volunteer, learn your faith, write a letter, call a senator, donate to save marriage where it is threatened….and the list goes on.
2 Timothy 3:16: "All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice." Taking this literally, the author does not state that all scripture is to be read literally, or even that scripture is the sole source of revelation.
All these groups are believers. They may or may not have perfect understanding, but they do believe.
Yes, I can see you're not from around these parts. We have traditions of government very unlike what you might have noticed in Europe. Our churches are flourishing compared to Europe's, because our constitution has protected them since 1787 from the "profane hand of the civil magistrate." Likewise, we've gotten along without any Thirty Years War kind of bloodshed, because we don't let churches become organs of politics. Oh, we have the kind of evil pastors who fancy themselves candidates for some new fangled Papacy, but even American Catholics don't go for that kind of authority. Neither do Baptists, even though Jerry Falwell was a case in point. Not in real life they don't. Most of our states once had laws restricting church ownership of property: just a few acres, just enough property value to build a little house of worship. We are more relaxed now, but I wonder if our ancestors weren't right about that in the first place. Pastors can do plenty to cultivate virtue, one soul at a time. You know, I've read a lot of Focus on the Family Q&A bulletins in church on Sunday, and Dr. Dobson makes a lot of sense. I don't understand how the same man can make such a maudlin idiot of himself when he gets up on a political platform and howls about elections and government. If the individual voters are virtuous, pastors don't have to tell them how to vote, nor threaten politicians to try to coerce their vote. We like our traditions and principles in America. Why don't you take some time to learn about them? For starters, read The Federalist Papers.
John the Baptist would be living off the land beside a little creek in New Mexico. People would travel in beat up vans to listen to him. Fox News and MSNBC and CNN would all ignore him, for different reasons. Everyone who had a political agenda for going to listen to him would pipe up with their own little preoccupations, and he would blow them away with a stream of righteous anger. Eventually, either some Aryan Nations type would blow him away, or some social worker would get a conservatorship order. Depending on who got to him first, the other side would make a martyr of him, quite against his will and without his permission.
You are correct that freedom of religion was intended to allow each INDIVIDUAL to practice their beliefs in peace, not to impose some common standard of secularized political correctness. But what Catholics need to do about their bishops is remind them that allegiance to God is constitutionally protected, while political manipulation at the behest of a certain foreign prince known as the Pope borders on treason. You have a right to listen to him, but when bishops start threatening elected officials with excommunication if they don't vote as they are told, they can get out of my country.
To all the "just preach the gospel" pastors: Your narrow definition of preaching the gospel (saving souls from hell) ignores the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20): "make disciples of all nations, teaching them to obey everything that I commanded." It's true that transformation of culture begins with transformed hearts, but if culture is never changed, then the hearts were little affected – "you shall know them by their fruit" (Matthew 7:16). The problem with the liberal social gospel movement is not that they tried to help the poor. They left out the gospel, like you say; but they also failed because they failed to follow God's laws about how to help the poor: http://www.christianciv.com/One-Third_campaign.ht...
I'll add my two cents. There's much difference in entering into a pointless debate or working with troubled souls. Many Pastors don't have the time to look around for commenters to argue with when marriages are failing, kids are pregnant, people are dying, and all of this within the Pastor's congregation everyday. Not only that, but a conscientious Pastor will be studying the scriptures faithfully, which takes quite a bit of time in order to proclaim their message. And if he is an exceptional preacher, he will be studying in the original Greek, Aramaic and Hebew texts. That's not easy. Now: Go and throw in spending time with his family, and do you really think a Pastor is going to waste his time arguing with agnostics itching to put another notch on their six-gun? I look at some conservative sites for fun, and respond once in a while, but I see where society is going (and no, I am not a Pastor, but I thought about it). It fits in with the idea that time really is growning short, but scripture does indicate that many will depart from sound doctrines, invent their own, or be scoffers for scoffing's sake.
Given that theological issues need a bit of explanation to properly understand them and we are in a "sound-bite" mentality, it is fruitless for arguments to be made for someone who has already made up his or her mind. I am all for Pastors making their arguments, but it is a question sound Bible teaching, not convincing someone they're all wrong with a trite "Do You Know Jesus?" Most of the people that have a chip on their shoulder about the Church, or God, or call the Lord by the name Jeebus are not the ones a Pastor needs to worry about. He has a flock assigned to him, and there his attention should be.
Yeah, but I for one believe that ALL humans are capable of turning into animals, religious or not. It's just my opinion based on my life experience – again, I have known atheists that I would trust more than certain people that call themselves "Christians". One can "preach" all they want about the intricacies of the Bible, and although I don't know Christopher, just because he claims to be a "Born Again Christian" doesn't mean I would automatically pick him for my team over an atheist just because of his religious beliefs. That's the difference between at least me and Christopher. Apparently Christopher wouldn't pick you or I, but we may just pick him depending on our other choices. What does that say about Christopher, you and I?
I don't know where morals came from – directly from God? From thousands of years of humans living with each other and having to find a way to live peacefully in a group so that people could survive have children, etc? Who knows. I know that Christ said a lot of things that I agree with and that are what I call TRUTH, i.e., you hear it and regardless of its source, your being accepts it as making the most sense possible in pretty much every life situation. Other people in history have also said things that I think are TRUTH. No one has a corner on it, IMHO.
Again, I don't mean to demean religious people. Having a core of set down "morals" certainly helps keep religious people from probably falling fast into evil – but look at radical Muslims. They are "religious", at least THEY consider themselves to be. But they aren't exactly acting nicely are they? Religion can be used for good or evil, not because there is "no God" but because religion IMHO is wasted on human beings. Look how we are fighting over the minutae of "religion" – do you go to Church on Sunday or Saturday, do you accept Christ as your savior, do you believe in baptism, the Holy Eucharist, etc.
HOWEVER, if you stick with the core things that Jesus taught about loving God, loving your neighbor, not being judgmental (Hello, Christopher, are you there?), etc. we would all be better off. Then there wouldn't be much to fight about. I prefer "spirituality" over "religion" only because of these arguments which take away the beauty of God, etc.
Look, nothing you say is going to change my mind. Jesus allegedly said a lot of things. The Gospels were written 30 years after his death. I think that a lot of what was written down he probably actually said, and other stuff is just extrapolated and self-serving (especially when you are trying to convert people).
That's just my opinion of course. And it's not meant to be offensive to anyone who believes.
But if you are a conservative and you respect the Constitution, then you respect the 1st amendment and therefore my right to worship or not worship, as I do respect yours, even if I disagree with you vehemently.
I know who Thomas Jefferson is, and just like Jesus, he said some things I find to be TRUTH and that sentence I paraphrased is one of them and is one of the fundamentals of American life – you don't bother me, I don't bother you. Also, don't forget the 1st Amendment.
And Jesus also said that we give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. The 1st amendment is the earthly part. Do you respect that or not? I do. And you should give to God what is God's and stop trying to unite the two when they are not meant to be united.
Thomas Jefferson "unsaved"! HA! I think you'll be surprised.
I'm not saying you are forcing me, but the way you talk, you are insulting a good many GOOD CHRISTIANS here which is what the rest of us are trying to tell you. Instead of being DIVISIVE, join with your fellow Christians in fighting the real scourge here: secular progressives. But you keep quoting the Bible and insulting us.
So I don't "hate" your opinions and I'm perfectly willing to be challenged. But you are still missing the point. We can challenge each other later. Right now we have a real "enemy" to fight, so are you going to join us, or continue to admonish us because we don't believe as you do?
And I'll quote whatever I darn well please and you can call me whatever you want . . . it doesn't make it true.
He is self-righteous because he thinks he and his "Born Agains" have the corner on what is the TRUTH and the rest of us are damned. That is also hateful and judgmental because he doesn't know any of us personally or what kind of people we are. To him and his fellow "Born Agains" none of that matters. It only matters of you accept Christ period. While most other Christian religions have a similar view, I have also known them to be a bit more ecumenical and accepting of fellow Christians even if they disagree on the minutae (or the bells and whistles as I like to call it).
The problem with arguing the Bible with me is this: I don't believe it to be the literal Word of God. I'm agnostic. It certainly may contain HISTORICAL truth, but whether or not it came from God is a matter of FAITH not FACT, IMHO.
If God wanted all 6 billion of us to worship him in the exact same way, don't you think he would have made sure we all got the same message, instead of playing Operator for thousands of years? I mean, I don't pretend to understand God and I don't think anybody ever could, but if God is supposed to be just and all that, it seems a bit unfair to play Russian roulette with who is going to "follow him" and who isn't, especially in such minute ways of what prayers we say, what buildings we pray in, etc. The whole "it's a test" argument seems rather petty for a being that always was, always will be and created the universe.
It's just the way I see it, which is why I'm more interested in what people DO than what they believe. Again, because I've seen the best and worst in both religious and non-religious people so it's not really the be all and end all for me. Those that judge people by their religion, as Christopher seems to do are judgmental and self-righteous and can be hurtful in what they say. He's insulted most of us by basically claiming we are all damned (even Thomas Jefferson!).
Well, now you know how it feels. I don't have any desire to really judge you since I don't know you. Under other circumstances, who knows, we could be friends. But when your opening salvo is something like – "Unless a person be born again, he is no christian. This means faith alone in Grace alone. Catholicism is not christian, and it never will be." It's a little hard to make friends, don't you think?
So are you saying that Alexander's call for Ecumenical Jihad will never be answered by you b/c we are not "Christians". Yeah, way to make friends and influence people.
Every time you post, you come across as obnoxious. Sorry.
Yeah, you can pretty much switch the names around . . . and it's still funny.
That is why you are obnoxious – you take everything so literally, nothing can possibly be funny to you. And it's exactly the same reaction the other Born Again guy had when my mother told the joke.
Lighten up, Francis.
Jesus message on "Do not Judge" is not an argument to not judge the actions of others.
We have to judge the actions of others everyday that is a certainity
He wants us to examine our own morals first…and work on ourselves…before we "Help our brother take the splinter out of their own eye". I.E Yes please help your brother from being immoral…just you be the example first.
Your positions on the Bible is purely a "Materialistic One". There is no "Physical Evidence" for the existence of math and logic….yet it reasonable to conclude it exists.
God gave us Free Will…we are not his "Mindless Robots". He then said, "Here I am"…you can come over here if you like or not.
Well then, I guess you will be the only one in heaven, according to the self-righteous theology of Chris Nelson.
By your standards, King David will not be in heaven because he is an adulterer and a murderer. Likewise for Moses, as he also murdered a man. Of course, David was a forefather of Jesus Christ, but– according to your warped doctrine– he isn't cut out for heaven. Apostle Peter? Why, Chris! Peter's a liar and a denier. No heaven for Apostle Peter, according to CN theology. Heaven will be a lonely place, for just you and your narrow church.
But seriously, I don't really believe any of that. I do know that hate for your fellow Christians (and condemnation, particulary in public– but you picked the forum) is straight from the pit of Hell and also in your heart.
You follow the Bible? REALLY?? Is this the way in which Apostle Paul told the Corinthians to deal with followers of Christ who were in the wrong? Clearly not. So, according to your own doctrine, you have displayed on this board that you cannot keep God's Word. Following your logic, that puts you in the same place as the origin of your hateful thoughts.
Shame on you.
In summary: you live in a glass house.
Mike,
You have already judged him.
Your criticism has already spoken. "Speaking the truth in love", does not evade the pressing, uncomfortable issues congregations are needing to hear these days.
"Pulling our brothers out of the flame" isn't soft. Jesus was never soft with those in leadership that knew the will of God yet disobeyed it, causing Israel to drift further into sin.
Paul wasn't soft either, when he spoke to those who knew the Word, who had chosen to compromise and sullied their witness.
If I hadn't heard the truth,hitting me like a "slap" in the face, I wouldn't have questioned my heart and repented. Sometimes love is tough, and that is the truth. That is what we have been shown in the Word.
Your comment reeks of self-righteousness and pride. I mean you no harm, but can you ask yourself "What makes me wonder "of how he speaks to unbelievers" if it wasn't for judgment? Let's be real. Let's be truthful. Assumption has nothing to do with truth either, and definitely has nothing to do with walking in love.
Giles article was written out of passion, with the frustration of watching leaders sit by and let their congregations perish in their lack of knowledge. Congregations all over the World are being fed syrup from the pulpit, and the alarm is not being sounded. The alarm warning God's people of the sinister ideologies taking over our government is mute. The watchman on the wall is not giving the alarm. Why?
Mr. Giles explains why. The reason is rooted in sin. The failure of God's leaders in discussing the issues facing all of us today was NEVER the intent of the founding fathers of this country, nor the intent of God while providing the Prophets to pull Israel out of the fire, nor the intent of John the Baptist, nor the intent of Jesus Christ, nor the intent of Jesus' disciples. Yet our Pastors have allowed themselves to be muzzled. How have they?
By becoming servants to the State through filing 501(c)3 with the Internal Revenue Service. Otherwise there would be little cause to keep silent. They keep silent because the government wants them silent. And they have acquiesced. And the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have never been One to shrink from the darkness…they prefer the light, the truth, and the walk of faith.
Mr. Giles has shown no hatred of man, he has shown his hatred of evil and sin. Can't you see that?
Speaking the truth with love doesn't mean syrup or sweetness. It means speaking the truth even to your own hurt. Speaking the truth even if one doesn't want to face it, because God wants it in the light; and speaking it even in the face of rejection and criticism, because it needs to be said.
Umm, excuse me idkate….but we do win. We know the end of the story. We pull, and keep people from the fire by the "blood of the Lamb", and the word of our testimony. What we say. We walk in love, because the light of Christ that shines through us. And the light reveals the darkness. And the sin is darkness. The Holy of Holies was a type of our hearts…"the kingdom of God is within you". The money changers were exploiting the poor by requiring payment for the forgiveness of sins…gee…sounds almost like Church sometimes…very sad, but true. Maybe if more Pastors were taking care of their sheep, they wouldn't get lost or eaten by the wolves.
Yes Lisa, God Is, Was and Will be triumphant, and thankfully we are on His side. My point is I don't believe it's the duty of the Church to get caught up in the POLITICS of this world. This is NOT our home! Ephesians 6:12 says it best: " For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." You hear that? Our struggle is not against humans! We should be praying for Obama and Pelosi and Reid etc, etc, not proclaiming how evil they are. They are not the enemy, Satan is. Let's not lose sight of that. By all means, speak out against injustice (IN LOVE), but steer clear of judgment. That is God's job. Read Romans 12 for some really terrific guidelines we are to follow.
This is wrong on so many levels. But I can see how it fits in with Protestant congregations that portray their pastors as a cult personality. Whatever happened to Matt. 11:29 or 1 Cor. 4:20, 21 or 1 Jn. 4:18 among so many other passages? I think the author's Gospel is Cecil B. Demill's "Ten Commandments".
Great post! We do need a revival! A revival in ministers of the gospel's involvement in the cultural issues of our day. If we don't speak out from a biblical perspective and challenge the culture in all areas, we will become a "byword" and a "pile of manure." Shepherds, speak and prophesy to the culture God's word without compromise or apology. The message has the power to shake the culture!
NoMo – Did you serious just call Liberals anti God? I'm not sure I understand the layout of that sentence, but that is what it sounded like and it is not the first time I've heard it. There are thousands of Liberals who go to church and have as much (f not more) faith and devotion as you. This is the kind of mentality that DOES split a church in half. You sound more ignorant than any "non-believer" you demonize. You know what I am sick of? Christians claiming to be forgiving and loving in the eyes of God who really just HATE anyone who isnt exactly like them. That isn't Christian, it is falsehood; and maybe you should re-examine your own faith before making judgements on others.
This is right on! To all of we christians who have been content to kneel on the sideline and just pray for the world crumbling around us…did this swift kick wake you up? Go shake your pastor and elders awake and show them the scripture that describes faith as a verb James 2:17. Action not apathy!
Mr. Nelson, may I respectfully point out the fallicy of your statement concerning Christs kingdom not being of this world.
Others have thought that time spent in the pursuit of our civil duties was time used unwidely since civil duties had no eternal consequence. When that same objection was raised two centuries ago, John Witherspoon promptly responded: Shall we establish nothing good because we know it cannot be eternal? Shall we live without government because every constitution has its old age and its period? Becauses we know that we shall die, whall we take no pains to preserve or lengthen our life? Far from it,Sir: it only requires the more watchful attention to settle government upon the best principles and in the wisest manner[so] taht it may last as long as nature of things will admit.
The factt that something may not be eternal does not release Christian citizens from their duties of stewardship over the civil government which God has provided them.
Call For Amnesty for Illegals from the National Assoc. of Evangelicals.
http://www.numbersusa.com/dfax?action=voteyes&...
The above is why you don't want pastors and churches involved in social activism.
The only basis from a biblical perspective for Christians and churches to be social activist is a false one. As the gospel is to go into all the world and is for all men when that gospel is made equivalent to social renewal or a social salvation it is then a more effective communist philosophy then any atheistic communistic philosophy as it has the full authority of God behind it.
Pastors should not only be speaking up now…they should have been speaking the last eight years. Any pastor who becomes a social activist all of a sudden, loses credibility because their motives will seem more politically driven than spiritually. Do you honestly mean to say, that all the moral decay, poor governmental policies and degraded morals that exist in this country had their genesis on November 5, 2008? Give me a freakin' break!!! Let's point out and speak out against ungodliness on both sides of the isle, and believe me, there is plenty to go around!
[...] Some of those same points are made by Doug Giles, himself a minister, who excoriates the pastors who refuse to get involved in the culture wars. It is like fighting with one hand tied behind one’s back. Some do this out of doctrinal interpretation, others for monetary reasons, still others due to time limitations. This is not a call for full-time political activism, nor does it require Bob Jones-style rhetoric of intolerance. But it does require a certain backbone on issues of dogma and a willingness to confront people (especially one’s own parishioners) on matters central to the Catholic Church and to Christianity more broadly. Failure to do so weakens the bonds with the broader religious community more than a stronger message might drive away a few who on their insides already have drifted from the message. The figurative sheep need to know that they are in the right flock and that the shepherd’s word holds true. Share and Enjoy: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]
Kudos to Big Hollywood on this post. I was shocked to read HAGELIN: Protecting our bedrock beliefs (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/19/h... kudos to The Washington Times. I've noted that The Washington Times tends to be more conservative than the Washington Post; I'll definitely read it more often, and keep an eye on Hagelin.
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