The ‘America Is Arming Mexico’s Drug Gangs’ Lie
by Dan Gifford“There is an iron river of guns that flows South into Mexico [from the United States] to supply criminal organizations on the border,” says Tom Mangan, senior special agent with Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) in Phoenix. “They are in the market for machine guns, hand grenades, rocket-propelled grenade launchers and Stinger anti-aircraft missiles,” he continues. That’s right. The drug gangs can’t buy that and other military stuff like the 40MM grenades (the silver things in the upper left) and the rifles with launchers shown in the photo below in Mexico, so they drive to the United States and purchase them from American gun dealers at retail. Isn’t that the story you’ve been told? Well, congratulations. America’s First Amendment protected propaganda ministry has punked you on another important issue — this time on behalf of dissembling officials and gun confiscation advocates.
For the benefit of those who may not know, machine guns (not the same thing as the demonized “semi-automatic”), hand grenades, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, Stinger anti-aircraft missiles and other such military items are illegal to possess by US civilians, which means they are not for sale in gun stores. OK, in the interest of extreme accuracy for anyone in need, there are some civilian owned machine-guns in America, but they all have to have been registered with the ATF by 1986 as evidence that a special Treasury tax has been paid and the owner’s residence state has to approve the possession. What’s more, none of these arms has ever been involved in a crime, to my knowledge, and all are considered very pricey collectors items. That means they are not for sale to or in the hands of Mexican drug goons.
That raises some questions:
If Mexican gangsters are not buying military weapons in the United States, why do people like ATF officials, Attorney General Holder, Secretary of State Clinton, gun prohibitionists like Sarah Brady and multitudes of media talking heads claim they are while calling for an American “assault weapon” ban they say will to keep the Mexican drug gangs from buying what they really aren’t buying here because they can’t?
And if Mexican gangsters are not buying their military weapons in America from gun dealers as claimed, where are they buying them?
Confused? Well, as Fox News’ pundit Charles Krauthammer explained in one of his 1996 Washington Post columns, the answer to question one is quite simple:
Passing a law like the assault weapons ban is symbolic — purely symbolic … In fact, the assault weapons ban will have no effect either on the crime rate or on personal security. Nonetheless, it is a good idea … Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation … Ultimately, a civilized society must disarm its citizenry if it is to have a modicum of domestic tranquillity of the kind enjoyed in sister democracies like Canada and Britain … Yes, Sarah Brady is doing God’s work.
Krauthammer is able to so clearly state the obvious that most government officials, politicians, gun banners and reporters keep denying because he does not have to lie to voters in order to stay in office or keep donations coming in, as Sarah Brady does. Neither do I. So please note that all the public safety blather about “plastic guns” that can evade metal screener detection, “cop killer bullets” that are specifically made to murder police officers, “Saturday Night Specials” which are unsafe for anyone to possess (except for police — there’s always a police exception) and the other oft repeated gun control paradigms are simply bogus media ready scare phrases that have zero to do with public safety and everything to do with eventually outlawing the private ownership of firearms.
Maybe you agree with that goal and maybe you don’t, but that’s the object of “reasonable gun control” advocacy.
The answer to the second question is equally obvious. Gun running from the United States into Mexico has been going on since the 1800s. But the stuff bought or stolen here is not the military weaponry we are continually told is arming the gangs there. This paragraph from a Los Angeles Times story managed to get the story right even if nobody else in the media will report it:
Most of these [military] weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semi-automatic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. . . . The enhanced weaponry represents a wide sampling from the international arms bazaar, with grenades and launchers produced by U.S., South Korean, Israeli, Spanish or former Soviet bloc manufacturers. Many had been sold legally to governments, including Mexico’s, and then were diverted onto the black market. Some may be sold directly to the traffickers by corrupt elements of national armies, authorities and experts say … These groups appear to be taking advantage of a robust global black market and porous borders, especially between Mexico and Guatemala. Some of the weapons are left over from the wars that the United States helped fight in Central America, U.S. officials said.
Stratfor, a private intelligence agency, noted more:
Grenades used in three recent attacks in Monterey, Mexico, and Pharr, Texas, all originated from the same lot delivered from South Korea.
So let’s recap.
Attorney General Holder, Secretary of State Clinton, ATF officials and a host of others claim that an “assault weapon ban” against American civilians will keep Mexican drug cartels with gazillions of dollars in their jeans from buying military weapons on the international black market.
Hey, makes sense to me.
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111 Comments
At the risk of being redundant, I'll post what I posted on the other thread on this subject (for those that missed it).
I have three thoughts here.
One major frustration is this goofy libtard notion that America's gun dealers are a corrupt lot that would willingly sell to any criminal, thug or gangster that walks in and flashes a wad of cash (and at the same time they're so racist they won't sell to law abiding black people … but that's another issue).
You have to realize that gun dealers in the US are regulated by the most brutal, thuggish and mafia-like government agency in the entire alphabet soup of agencies; the ATF. ATF agents have been caught lying on the stand and manufacturing evidence in order to ruin the lives of gun dealers that just didn't bow and scrape properly. They like to raid gun shop owners homes in the middle of the night with flash bangs and MP5 submachineguns, and have often murdered family pets in the process (one female ATF agent stomped a kitten to death in front of children because their father wasn't complying fast enough for her liking). The wrath of "F-Troop" can be brought down on the heads of gun shop owners for simple, minor paperwork mistakes … like losing a single page or not catching it when a buyer abbreviates the name of the state they live in on the form 4473. So there's just NO STINKING WAY that you're average gun shop owner is going to risk his livelihood, freedom and possibly his life in selling guns to criminals. PERIOD.
Second thing that annoys me here is that are we really supposed to believe that Mexican drug cartels will send some lackey up to the US to purchase an AR-15 (the semi-automatic civilian version of the M16) for around $1000 instead of buying 3 FULL AUTOMATIC M16s (or for that matter 5 FULL AUTOMATIC AK47s) on the black market? Or worse are we to believe that Mexican Drug Lords will send some lackey up to the US to purchase a registered and transferable M16 from a collector for $20,000 (waiting 6 months or so for the ATF paperwork to go through) instead of a truckload of AKs with "da switch"?
Finally, if things are SO dire in Mexico, it would be unconscionably irresponsible to start disarming law abiding Americans (especially those in border states) and especially taking from them semi-automatic assault style weapons.
Thanks Dan, fantastic article.
As usual, no lie is too large to tell for the people looking to push leftist policies past the American people.
Civilian gun ownership bans are easily explained. Revolutions are not started by criminals. Revolutions are started by enraged citizens who can no longer stand the oppression of totalitarian governments. Disarm the citizenry and they will be more obedient to their masters. One of the first moves of the Nazis in Germany was to use the gun registrations of the people as a list of all legally owned guns to be confiscated by the state. Don't believe it can happen here? Just wait.
Great article and I'm a big fan of Krauthammer too.
As soon as I saw Hillary down in Mexico City talking about "American guns" I knew that was just an opening shot for new anti-gun measures to be floated around. What's sadder is there are a lot of people on the left that will buy that Mexican gangs are secretly gearing up at the local gun shop, when that's not the case. Like I mentioned in another gun topic a few days ago, I don't remember seeing any RPGs 'R Us the last time I went shopping.
Well thank God that Mexico has a law against citizens possessing assault weapons. That should do it.
I say bring on the attempts to increase "Gun Control" nothing and I mean nothing will stir conservative and moderate Democrats more. Did I mention that nothing will turn more Democrats into Republicans than gun control. Did you here me Nancy? Harry?
Post a link to any ATF official calling for a ban on anything. You won't, because you can't find it. The ATF enforces the laws that the US Congress writes, the US President signs, and the US Courts uphold.
Zundfolge – Prove you allegations about kitten stomping female agents raiding a home at midnight, or you will show that you are full of it.
BTW – Machine guns have been regulated since the National Firearms Act of 1934.
you are only right… the Dems are starting to get concerned that their own wacko left will send them to a stunning electoral defeat ala 1994. which, of course, is why they are trrying to get as much done as quickly as possible…
A great summary of the new War on Guns.
I saw the LATimes article and was honestly shocked that they let some truth be told…
Thanks, and keep shooting…
your three thoughts are all correct. Anyone with a class 111 FFL is subject to snap inspections from the ATF- and while there are some criminal elelments who have been able to get dealer's license they are small in number. And the vast majority are either veterans or country boys who grew up with guns and respect them- and don't want them in the wrong hands. The same with gun shows. That these are considered 'bad' is a joke- almost no crime ever occurs because of their existence.
Also too, the cartels are getting most of their weaponry from either corrupt government officials or sadly, the dead officers and soldiers. You cannot buy grenades or RPG's or LAWS rockets and other such kit
anywhere. A civilain semi-auto AR-15 can cost up to two grand and a full auto M16 A1 can be had for @$800 US.
Ultimately the authorities are responsible for the violence on the border, not we citizens. Drug use isn't any higher now than it was 10 peaceful years ago, so that is no excuse. Mexico needs to send more troops there and really get tough with this lot…
The AK-47 is nearly ubiquitous throughout the world, including Mexico. So how does that square with American arms dealers being the fountain of all dangerous weaponry? The answer, of course, is it doesn't. And I think it was Krauthammer who first quipped that since Congress critters wouldn't know an assault weapon from a frying pan, what they were really banning was "ugly guns."
If you're too lazy to copy and paste "kitten stomping female agents" into Google before calling someone else a liar then you're a schmuck. A lazy schmuck. A lazy, loudmouthed, know-nothing schmucks' schmuck.
When I went to school we did our own homework, schmuck.
That's the big reason I switched from Democrat to Republican years ago. Of course, now there are many reasons I'm glad I'm no longer a Dem, but that was the original one.
After hearing Clinton’s comments in Mexico on the expiration of the assault weapons ban I looked up the murder rate in Mexico to see what happened in 2004 when the ban expired.
2000 14.11
2001 13.94
2002 13.04
2003 17.5
2004 11.1
2005 10.6
2006 10.8
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...
hmmmm.
Googling 'kitten' and "BATFE" together brought up more than a couple of reasonably accurate references to Harry and Theresa Lamplugh and their less than joyful experience with the agency.
Googling "BATFE", "Mike Sullivan", "administrator" and "ban" is easy, too…and productive.
Regards,
Rabbit.
So the link is……. oh that's right – IT'S AN URBAN MYTH – promulgated by loudmouthed schmucks like you. And you, my friend, are so gullible that you believe what you read on the internet.
That's one inconvenient truth the media won't like.
So how does ruined Mexico compare to enlightened Brazil — enlightened since they are now run by a leftist who doesn't like "blue eyed people" and they have strong gun control. Gee, let's see. Brazil has 200 million people and 40,000 homicides a year. Mexico has half the number of people, but only 1/10 the numbers of homicides (4,100). So where is the real problem? That's right, its the one that doesn't support the US.
Also, it should be pointed out that guns alone are not the problem. Switzerland requires gun ownership and has some of the loosest gun control laws in the world, but they only had 34 homicides in 2006. I wonder how liberals explain that one to themselves?
I thought I could weather this administration, but with each day, their incompetence becomes a little harder for me to bear.
Never let a crisis go to waste…..
Don't you love that John F'ing Kerry has all of a sudden discovered there is a border!!!!
Gee, guns going across the border…..what about the millions of illegals ?
Were they invisible? No,……. but they were potential democratic voters!!!
Not to mention Pelosis Patriots and murdering, drunken thug gang bangers!
These plastic politicians make me puke!
I remember the silly "assault rifle" bill they passed. It was all about cosmetics. I think they picked the guns they had seen the ganstas on tv using that year and decided to ban those. "Wow, did you see those drug dealers on Nash Bridges using the Tech-9s. We must stop people from obtaining such assault guns."
The silliest part of the law was that a gun's status (assault or not) could depend on whether or not the gun was fitted for a bayonet. How often do you hear about people dying from a bayonet charge in this country?
Two weeks after Laurent Kabila took over Zaire and changed its name to the "Democratic Republic of Congo (keep in mind that any state that calls itself a "democratic republic" invariably is neither)" he gave the citizens two weeks to turn in their privately owned firearms. Immediately after the two weeks ended he used firearm registries to hunt down those who hadn't complied and killed them. For the next three months I watched the implementation of a marxist regime… You don't have to go back any further than 1997 to see what happens when the citizenry is disarmed.
If they succeed in their nefarious scheme, we may indeed hear about a bayonet charge—against the Obama Youth Corps as they gleefully attempt to take away our last line of self-defense. Of course the bayonets won't be attached to anything, so we'll probably just call them swords or knives.
If they succeed in their nefarious scheme, we may indeed hear about a bayonet charge—against the Obama Youth Corps as they gleefully attempt to take away our last line of self-defense. Of course the bayonets won't be attached to anything, so we'll probably just call them swords or knives.
First off, let's get this straight: I am not your friend. And you can't point to anything that even hints at this story being an urban myth. Reading comprehension isn't your forte, but then it doesn't have to be, does it?
You just want to keep screaming like a 12-yr-old girl trying to make her first period go away. Try clicking on something besides a snopes piece about a completely different story. Never mind. That would be too much like work. Stay stupid. It suits you well.
Now scoot along back to your Kos sandbox and tell them all how you bravely defeated the gun-clinging reich wing kkkhristian fascists. Maybe you'll get a cookie. Or maybe they'll just tell you to come up with some new material. Yours is stale.
Nah, getting past the Obama Youth Corp will be easy. Throw them a joint and a playstation. They'll walk away and you won't see them again for weeks.
Exactly. I for one felt much better after Mexico passed that law and the gun violence in Mexico dropped 80% .
Thank you, Mr. Gifford. You're absolutely right. Machine guns have been banned since 1986. If Mexican drug lords are getting machine guns and/or other military grade weapons, they're not getting them from the U.S. It's complete bull.
No, these "assault weapon" bans are targeting common semi-automatic rifles, like the M1 Garand that Clint Eastwood uses to defend his home in "Gran Torino."
If only the public weren't so utterly misinformed and lied to by the media, these gun ban efforts would never even get off the ground.
a good chuckle was had by us over this,,, like the Kos sandbox thing; an apt metaphor.
But oddly, Lula has a better understanding of free trade than Obama. Maybe he's just a racist capitalist. Now that's a volte face and an oxymoron all combined into one. And at least until a couple of years ago, the US state with the loosest gun laws and lowest death and injury rate from guns was (and probably still is) Vermont. There's a demographic there that dares not speak its name.
But oddly, Lula has a better understanding of free trade than Obama. Maybe he's just a racist capitalist. Now that's a volte face and an oxymoron all combined into one. And at least until a couple of years ago, the US state with the loosest gun laws and lowest death and injury rate from guns was (and probably still is) Vermont. There's a demographic there that dares not speak its name.
it always was an 'ugly gun' ban that unfortunately covered every autoloader made. It banned bayonet lugs (knocking off 7-11's by bayonet point!) collapsable stocks, forward assist (on AR-15's- it helped seat the round quickly in a tactical situation) but ultimately it was the semi-auto feature they wanted to ban. First. The Tech 9 is a useless 9mm bullet hose that only gangbangers like and that's why that became the poster child for 'bad' guns…
every Swiss male has either a G3 or FN-FAL fully automatic rifle in their home. Have for decades, too.
The Nazis bypassed the Swiss when they conquered Europe; figured the Swiss would give 'em game-
they were right…
Can't take it anymore? Join the revolution and fight back against the left-wing, progressive, socialist agenda. Come to New Hampshire, the land of the Free (State Project). http://www.freestateproject.org. The liberty-based political infrastructure being put in place there at this very moment is already having an impact, and I've never seen anything comparable in any other state. Get involved! Take back your local governments first! Chains are broken at the weakest link!
It appears to be one of truisms of the world.
All Governments seek to centralize more and more power in fewer and fewer people.
At the same time the elite becomes more and more isolated from the negative consequences of their own actions. The incompetence of the society increases and is ultimately destroyed by economic collapse or external enemies.
Sadly, we appear to be heading down that same road.
The most dangerous players in this little charade is the main stream media and the popular entertainment media who portray these anti second ammendment talking points as if they were self evident facts.
Dan as I stated elsewhere in "Big" I was at Sen. John Kerry's "dog and pony show" here in El Paso, Texas (on the Mexican border) yesterday. Synopsis; U.S. bad and evil. Guns that stream over from Americans arming these paramilitary Mexican Drug Armies, evil. Fact, as you so correctly stated, that these high caliber military weapons are coming from Central and South America, ignored. You want to waste a few hours? Go to a Senate Foreign Relations / Liberal smooch fest. They accomplished NOTHING! You should see with your own eyes what those AK's do to a car, they shred them. It happens everyday less than four miles from my house.
Right. So how do those goofy liberals explain the lack of "gun crime" where there are so many guns? Maybe the problem isn't the guns after all, but really the criminals using them.
Imagine this, Ms Napalitano, Homeland Security, now wants to treat Canada the same way that Mexico is treated.
Where did Obama dig her up from?
you of all people know this gun thing is intellectual sophistry of the highest order… you cannot control completely as long as thereis an armed, wealthy land owning middle class. So, first order of affairs is to strip the wealth, deny use of the land, and confiscate firearms. That they wish to do these things isn't the surprise, it's the cluelessness of the Eloi who in their comfortably numb existence deny that this is even happening…
hey check, just had a friend get shot in juarez by an illegal weapon !! but the bullet came from arkansas
When these "leaders" speak of banning assault weapons, considering automatic weapons are already illegal, they are in no uncertain terms trying to redefine what "assault" weapon is. Simply put, they would be attempting to ban semi-automatic guns. For those who don't know, semi-automatic means that one bullet is fired each time the trigger is pulled. No more- no less. As if our ability to overthrow our own government weren't already next to impossible these people wish to reduce that ability even further. Meanwhile there are other "leaders proposing deep cuts into our defense budget and to couple this with laws that also weakened the population's ability to defend themselves would be an open invitation to our enemies. People with such limp wristed ideas have no business representing, much less governing, the citizens of this nation
Absolutely. The left's instincts are for a passive population. You cannot have a passive population if they are armed and capable of defending themselves. Even though we will never rise up as a people (our system really doesn't lend itself to that), the threat of such an uprising is enough to frustrate their desires for control.
By the way, my questions were facetious. I don't think the left would try to explain this, nor do I think it would matter to their followers how they explained it. Brady could get up and say, "the Swiss are different because they eat more cheese, so they aren't violent," and you and I know that a million heads would bob in unison.
Preach it brother! You're spot on.
we were aware of your tone; some of the others might have missed it. Dry caustic wit is something most of the left doesn't get; despite their protestations they prefer the sledgehammer to the scalpel… passivity is the enemy of freedom, to paraphrase Burke. You are correct that there would never be an uprising (violent); we are not suited for that. However, were the government to try to force certain things on certain segments of the populace- well that's another story altogether. Ultimately our armed forces would never take orders to harm their fellow citizens, so their threats are empty. Still, if we aren't vigilant…
you bet- under the Feinstein ruling an old Henry or Winchester 30/30 lever action is an 'assault weapon'.
In the UK, Canada and Australia their governments used the incremental approach to disarmament, first auto loaders then bolt action rifles and shotguns- and by the way, violent crime has increased in all three countries. When guns are criminalized only criminals will have them…
The allegation is that on May 25th 1994, the ATF raided the home of the Lamplugh family in rural Pennsylvania.
The Lamplugh's contend that Agent Donna Slusser stomped to death the Lumplugh's Manx kitten and kicked the body under a tree.
The "official" position of the government is that Agent Slusser did no such thing, The Lamplugh's still contend she did. Additionally the ATF has a history of lying in court and fabricating evidence and most law enforcement agencies have a problem with officers/agents covering for each other.
REGARDLESS of whether Agent Slusser did or did not stomp on a kitten, the reality is that most holders of Type I Federal Firearms Licenses believe the story is if not true at least plausible. My point is that aside from the fact that most licensed dealers are honest folk they are also enough afraid of the ATF not to sell guns to Mexican Drug Lords (or their compatriots).
BTW – the National Firearms Act registry for full automatic weapons was closed in 1986, so any transferable machine gun (those already in the registry) go for easily 10 times what their semi auto counterparts cost … and black market guns tend to go for 1/4 to 1/6 the cost of legal retail guns.
Ya know, we could seriously reduce gun violence if we started ISSUING gang members Tech-9s. Jam-o-matic pieces of pot metal and plastic that are almost as dangerous to the person wielding it as they are to the intended target.
He took her from Arizona after she spent all her time campaigning for him instead of doing her job as Governor (originally from New Mexico but couldn't win there). She left Arizona with billions in debt (1st for a Governor in AZ since WWII). She did nothing about the border. At the same time she was on the Sunday talk shows saying the violence hasn't crossed the border, on the news in both Phoenix and Tucson, police were validating the cartel violence is already in these cities. She is clueless and way over her head as head of HS. I'll keep my CWP thank you and please don't ever send that woman anywhere near AZ again…….
Ooh … that's going in the file, thanks Jack!
Good point, I shall try to "wet" my wit before I wit with it.
One of the virtues of the citizen-soldier is that it's very, very difficult for the government to use the military against its own people. And that's something that needs to be guarded zealously.
I think the greater danger to us is still going to be the slow, creeping encroachments — as Dan points out. First you seek to regulate something that is hard for the other side to defend. Then you expand the regulations. Soon you're banning things that people never would have believed you could ban. That's why I think we can't surrender even a little bit.
I've got nothing against handing out defective guns to those idiots. To me, that's just good policy.
I've got nothing against handing out defective guns to those idiots. To me, that's just good policy.
Actually I believe the Swiss have been issuing SIG 550s since 1990 (they call them Sturmgewehr 90) Prior to that it was the SIG SG 510 (aka Sturmgewehr 57) which is similar to the G3 but not quite the same. (ok, I'm picking nits … sorry)
It is said that in 1912 the Kaiser asked what the quarter million Swiss militiamen would do if he decided to march a half million of his finest soldiers into Switzerland. Some militiaman replied "We'd all have to shoot twice and then go home."
they are worthless- we have handled one and it was a cheaply made waste of metal and plastic that is pretty much guaranteed not to hit what you aim at with a pathetic 9mm round…. jam-o-matic! we like that…
Actually you might be on to something.
http://www.ers.usda.gov/amberwaves/february05/fin...
Violent crime rates HAVE been going down over the same time period.
hmmm.
it very well could be- our asscociation is somewhat dated 'REFORGER' era knowledge. Incidentally 'sturmgewehr' means 'assault weapon' in German… thanks for the info…
absolutely. That is why incrementalism is their favorite tactic. However, the clock is running so they need to speed things up a bit; ergo all the gaffes. They aren't that bright- but they are a determined lot…
Let's not forget the ammunition tracking bill they are trying to pass. They want so badly to disarm us and the worst part is that "we the people" let them. These sorts of things they do not let us vote on yet they still insist our is a representative form of government. If it truly were we would not be having this discussion as our representatives would consult us, their "constituents", on every issue rather than presuming to know what we want.
I'm old. Children gone. I'm willing to die if they come to my house if it will make them stop and think after I take several with me.
The #1 preferred semi automatic is the AK-47. America makes none of them, and they are bought for 1/5 of the price from Asia. To buy one of these at a US gun show (only semi automatic, of course) would be ridiculously stupid for a mexican gangster. They dont want any of our rifles, and the handguns they may come to buy are perfectly legal in Mexico.
You want to keep grenades, rockets, body armour, radios, and night vision goggles out of their hands???….THEN QUIT GIVING THEIR MILITARY A BILLION DOLLARS EVERY FEW YEARS!!!! The #1 retirement plan for ex-soldiers in Mexico is the cartels. They even advertise 'help wanted' signs publicly outside of their military bases.
Lamplugh was denied an FFL by ATF – reason: He was a convicted felon. So, his wife got an FFL, and he dealt in firearms. At their trial he was convicted of felon in possession of firearms, and dealing without a license, and she and he were acquitted of a conspiracy charge. So, tell me honestly, who had a motive to lie in court? Federal Court, Middle District of Penn. A google search will bring up the decision in the civil case (US vs. the seized firearms) and most of the fact pattern is within the first several pages.
You state that ATF has a history of lying in court and fabricating evidence – and your dates and names would be……
Federal law limits FFL inspections to once a year, otherwise an administrative warrant (or search warrant in the case of an allegation of criminal law) must be obtained.
And on occasion, FFLs are corrupt and do knowingly sell firearms to criminals. Its a very tiny percentage, but it does happen. Check actual news reports recently from TX.
I'm not in any way in favor of more gun laws, and would be for the repeal of some/most of the existing ones. But please get your facts straight.
http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/opinions/vanaskie/00v1470.p...
Here is the actual court decision in the civil case. Go ahead and protect the reputation of the felon who supposedly made the accusations – which are not in the court record. Because after all, a felon wouldn't lie – nor would people who had their own agenda. Its only Federal agents that lie. You are as bad a Hillary Clinton – distorting facts to get your own agenda across.
And call me all the names you want, my criticism stands. Post a link to an ATF official calling for a ban on firearms. Or, if you can't, go ahead and call me names. Like a 12 year old girl.
Your beef is with Congress, not ATF. Even if ATF were disbanded tomorrow, SOMEONE, either FBI, DEA, USMS, US Customs, or a brand new agency, would enforce the US gun laws.
Another case of our vigilant MSM acting in obedience to "a higher truth" than the actual facts. The mantra of fascism is "What matters is not 'what is true?' What matters is what one WILLS to be true."
The MSM and the One are intent on grabbing as many freedoms as they can before the gas runs out of the Obama balloon. If they are successful in taking away our guns, it's end-game. Fortunately, grabbing for the guns makes the gas run out mighty fast. It sank Clinton in '93; please God it does the same for the O in '09.
Just a wild a$$ guess…..
The Venezuelan AK-47 Factory
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/...
Actually there are a little more than a dozen very small US manufacturers of AK-47 pattern rifles. However, together they have produced maybe .001% of all the AKs in the world, none of them are full auto and most are expensive collector or competition rifles. Clearly NOT the cheap, full auto AKs in the hands of Mexican drug gangs.
Lets hope it doesn't come to that, but I hear where you're coming from.
Thank God someone is listening. Sometimes, Charles, I think I am Kevin McCarthy in "Invasion of the Body Snatchers".
The truth is the AK 47's now used by the druggies are the wepons given to the Mexican army by the USA for trainning.
dcase: 'sturgewehr' actually translates literally as 'assault rifle';
Roger Hedgecock (San Diego KOGO radio) reports that 16,000 Mexican cops who were armed and trained by the US defected to the catels, taking their automatic weapons with them.
Sorry, but Will is correct. There is nothing wrong with asking for verification of a claim as spectacular as "one female ATF agent stomped a kitten to death in front of children because their father wasn't complying fast enough for her liking." The burden of proof is not on the reader to disprove the claim. That burden belongs to the party making the claim.
I hear you man.
[...] Gifford has an informative piece in Big Hollywood entitled, “The ‘America Is Arming Mexico’s Drug Gangs’ Lie“: “There is an iron river of guns that flows South into Mexico [from the United States] to [...]
I believe in sensible newspaper control.
As I have said elsewhere on this site: "The only way the" Gun Control " People can win the argument is to LIE!"
God Bless the United States of America, The 2nd amendment of the Constitution and 5.56mm round!
Interesting, but out of the list you gave, the only one definitely producing us receivers is Ewbank and 'The Firing Line'. The rest are all modifiers of imports. The 'builds' can rightfully be called 'builds' because some are a total rebuild using many, or sometime even half or more us parts. I can guarantee that even in the cases of Ewbank and 'the Firing Line', some of the parts are from impoerted AKS. Most of the 'builders' use Saigas from the Izmash factory in Russia or Polish made AKs.
I was surprise to find the Ewbank is actually making milled receivers. I suspect that 'the firing line' may even be using imported receivers that they rebuilt from an imported stamp, because the payoff for making one from scratch in the us is nominal (accuracy will not be improved from a well modified import stam). The Milled receivers from Ewbank are better, but would cost as much as an entire customized AK. A couple of the companies dont do much to the Aks they import and sell, and one, Russian American Armory, is just an importer of Saigas. The actual number of modifiers that do 'builds' are about 25-35, but many gunsmiths can. I am, and I am not a gunsmith.
The bottom line is that even the import/resales are 3-5 times as expensive as a Mexican can get them. Great information, thanks. I
[...] Dan Gifford has quite a bit. [...]
Be certain that the majority of libs are wussies. They are scared of guns because they’ve never been around weapons of any kind. Therefore feeding mindless myrmidons horse squeeze and them believing it are par for the coarse. Take heart the metrosexual male and hysterical female are really a small part of our population. One of the greatest tools of the left is propaganda, and the MSM and politicians are in lock step making it seem like a majority, not so. On all of these issues we discuss and argue on BH we must find the resolve that the true majority found when we stopped Immigration Reform, dead in it’s tracks. In my mind that was real power and showed me that we can push back against Washington and their hair brained laws, or ideas. Results of the last election be damned, and as we write on BH, please be certain to spend as much time with your representatives and keep their feet to the fire, right or left.
Let's see I think those grenades, RPG's and AK47's came from Wal Mart and the Stinger Missles? I think those were a blue light special at K Mart. Now who in their right mind would actually believe anything, just any thing Hillary says? . What a nation of gulible fools we've become , In today's America " A lie told often enough becomes the truth"
Hey!Lets be fair.In a way,Hillary was absolutely right:We in the USA ARE certainly to blame for the drug & weapons fueled border crisis.After all,wasnt it HER husband that pardoned cocaine dealers during his presdtl admin?
Billionaire tax-cheat & coke importer Marc Rich actually paid Bill 1 million$ for this kind favor.The other schmoe Mr.Clinton pardoned was his own brother Roger Clinton.No one can accuse the Clintons of not being altruistic.So Hillary is correct.This points to the fact shes likely smarter than Obama(something Ive never doubted).I just wish Hillary Clinton (and other libs)would speak for herself & her ilk when she wants to whine about hypocrisy & stupidity.Im American & I dont use or buy narcotics & certainly dont deal politically with those who do.
I think the Nazi Stg 44 was the first recognizable "assault rifle" using the 8mm Kurtz. Sturm roughly translates to storm so it is storm rifle. You can actually purchase a semi auto version for about 5K!
Doesn't the ATF, FBI, DOJ, etc. fall under the guidance and direction of the Attorney General with regard to poicy direction and execution? So, I would say that by default when the AG proposes and calls for the renewal and expansion of the Assault WEapons Ban most citizens can make teh leap of logic that "Atf Officials" will concur and support that policy – wouldn't you?
Mr Leadfingers has a surprisingly light trigger pull… the ammunition thing is the latest in a never ending round of silly laws they are trying to pass- however, both Obammunist Eric Holder and Hillary have had their wings clipped by the Big 'O' over the assault weapons flap; the Dems are still smarting from 1994. They may be dumb but not stupid; so the connundrum for the Left is how to disarm the US yet stay in power… as Feinstein said the other day “it's going to be an uphill battle”…
Over the years I've taken many "metrosexual male and hysterical female" Democrats out to the range for a bit of instruction and informal shooting.
Of those, MOST are either Republicans or Libertarians within 12 months and I have yet to have one that didn't at least on some level abandon their anti-gun silliness.
And one of OUR greatest tools is THE TRUTH. Once someone has actually experienced the truth, it becomes harder for them to go back to their old blind way of thinking.
even though this is now an old subject, the facts, which are a troubling thing, are this: the ATF is just a small rung above the US Marshalls service in the bottom feeders of federal law enforcement; applicants turned down by FBI, Secret Service, State Dept DSS and the like will be accepted here.
That is a fact.
The raid at Waco Tx was the ultimate classic case of ATF incompetence and hubris, a bad combination. The incident wiht the Lamplugh's is a he said she said so too much time has been spent here on this. Suffice to say that within Federal law enforcement the ATF are not well regarded.
At all…
Ummm, no, WE need to send troops there and get tough with this lot. Mexican troops are no more trustworthy than any other power structure in Mexico and that's the problem. There have been reliable accounts of Mexican troops firing on border agents. How many of them are bought off by the same narco-cartels causing this chaos?
instead of that get a Springfield Arms M1A in .308 (or 30:06) for 2 grand… better weapon all around and not as complex…
Great attempt to derail. The rest of you … Let's move on; this is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
The LA area suffers more than many areas from the violence these gangs perpetrate. There is local interest in the story?
What you say is true! Ignorance is a void that can either be filled with stupidity or facts. Take people out and let shoot a weapon and there will be smiles all around. I’ve been around weapons all of my life being raised in South Georgia, subsequently I understand that they’re tools that must be respected but not feared. As an aside there’s a small town outside of Atlanta, Kennesaw GA. Around 20yrs ago the mayor at the time and city council passed a law that everyone in the municipality must have a handgun. It quickly became one of the safest towns in America. Every type of crime went down, homicide, burglary, robbery, rape, etc. The law is still in place as Atlanta has grown to 5.75 Million people, and criminals avoid Kennesaw.
What?! They let her get away with saying things like that? Pheonix is the kidnap capital of the US isn't it? That's like Obama's lies about Sebelius when he introduced her. Sheer, bald-faced lies. She never raised taxes for starters; whatever, talk to anyone in my family and ask them what happened.
Oh, and guess who else has back tax issues?
we sort of agree- yes we need to send maybe 3500 guardsmen down there to create the anvil; the Mexican troops would be the hammer. You are not correct about the Army there, like most militaries they are good,patriotic kids who love their country and hate what they see. The police and local government are a totally different matter altogether. Calderon is a good man who takes this seriously and will do what it takes- most of the grandstanding is coming from our own State Dept.
Geee, as a resident of So Cal, I realy feel SAFE now. I am so glad that she wants to protect us from the notorious Canadian Drug Gangs. Those poor residents of that beautiful city of Nuevo Toronto.
Oops, sorry, I had the map upside down.
The problem is, the "Hardcore" Metrosexual / Hysterical's AVOID going to the range, Turn down any and all invites to talk about the issue. Think of a 10 year old with their fingers in their ears and humming real loud. That way, they can say they "never heard" what the NRA/Gun Owner had to say.
Some people never get common sense. They just refuse delivery.
This is another issue where the Democrats have either shown their ignorance or believe the average American is stupid. I suspect the administration, Ms Clinton et al, are spinning this issue for their own purposes–which I don't believe are as obvious as one may think. Illegal border busters also fit into this category. I wouldn't be surprised if, before it's all over, the administration attempts to 'buy a solution' to this issue as it has with the Palestinians. What's another billion dollars? I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop. We seem to have adopted a 'throw money at it" approach to problem solving in Hopes of buying a solution. A very wasteful approach but it gives the appearance of 'doing something'.
Oddly enough, I've already got one. Very accurate. Fun to shoot. Great zombie rifle!
Ahh yes….the zombie invasion is coming, it's only a matter of time.
I'll stick with my AR, I hit what I aim at and can carry a lot of ammo…..
Ahh yes….the zombie invasion is coming, it's only a matter of time.
I'll stick with my AR, I hit what I aim at and can carry a lot of ammo…..
whenever given the chance we carried one… not as finicky as the M-16 and, wow what a punch!
Thanks.
No. That would require a leap indeed, and my criticism was that there is no ATF official who has made a public statement – one way or the other – on the ban as had been reported above. Or if there was, please show me where it is.
When President Clinton called for allowing "out" homosexuals to serve in the military you didn't hear support from the Generals and field grade officers – but you didn't hear criticism either from those actively serving. When opinions were asked by elected officials, civil servants responded. The President (or AG, or Sec Treas, etc) can make statements, call for whatever, and that does not mean that everyone who is in the executive branch agrees.
Another example is the CIA under Pres Bush. How much cooperation did he get?
Couldn't get hired, huh. Sorry about that.
In fact, ATF agents are held in very high esteem by both other Federal agents, and state and local law enforcement officers.
The ATF, under oath, has only claimed that 90% of the guns that they can trace, of those given to them by the Mexican government to trace, which is less than 25% of the guns that the Mexican government has reported seized, can be traced to US gun dealers. On the other hand, there is rampant corruption in the Mexican government and the United States government gives Mexico billions in aid AND guns to combat drugs, so it wouldn't be surprising if the United States government was indirectly the source of many of the guns that end up with the cartels. Neither the Mexican government or the US government would want to admit that. So they blame us instead.
It really doesn't matter what kind of weapons the drug thugs are using, but it does matter that they are not U.S. supplied. Pick your trading partner; China, South Korea, Russia or any others, there have always been plenty of arms available for any conflict. The deception in this one lies in the lack of congressional will or support to quell the violence and the gun control tactics arising from something not even remotely related. It rings a common note with the 12 million illegals residing in this country and the millions more that will join them if the border fails. It's another dirty lie, these people are worth something to someone, whenever you follow the money it will lead you to the truth regardless how unpleasant it is.
You're assumption may be correct they would not likely use our armed forces on home turf against the people but there is a default with plenty of troops and armament i.e. NATO and the UN forces. These forces have been rapidly expanding their area of influence.
How about this Will. To give personal testimony about the BATF and other Federal Agents lying in court.
1. Ruby Ridge incident. They lied to the FBI at the beginning of the incident, they lied in court (proven by the not guilty verdict handed down on the "illegal shotguns" that were supposedly sold…) , and they lied to Congress when questioned why the incident was allowed to grow so out of control. Janet Reno was even dismayed at the lack of professionalism.
2. I was arrested in 1993 for "possession of an illegal firearm". During this time I was treated as though I was a convict, prior to the outcome of the case. The "illegal firearm" that I possessed was a pistol that was built by my grandfather's brother in 1908. This "illegal firearm" was an early cartridge revolver in a caliber that was not readily available and no longer in manufacture. See, what made the firearm illegal is that it didn't have a serial number. The fact that it didn't have a serial number wasn't surprising as serial numbers weren't required in 1908. During the jury trial, which I insisted upon, several reports were read aloud that originated from the BATF agents that inspected my home and found the "illegal firearm". Keep in mind this was in 1993, under Klinton and gang. I owned Class III firearms and was subject to inspections by the BATF which was where my charges originated. Back to the reports, these reports (2 of them, one from each agent that was inspecting my home) stated that the serial number had been filed off of the "illegal firearm". Their reports stated that I had told them that I bought it that way. Their report stated that I told them that I had polished the area that was supposed to contain the serial number so that it was more difficult to tell it had been removed. Both of these lies were refuted rather easily, however, it cost me a great deal of money and a great deal of my lifetime of worry. See, it was easy to prove that they were lying by simply hiring a firearms expert who was a former BATF agent. His testimony is the only reason I am not sporting a felony conviction. Wouldn't it be nice to live in a world where we didn't have to fear the government? By the way, my Class III firearms were confiscated at the time of my arrest. I didn't receive them back until 2001, eight whole years after they were taken from me, illegally and via fabricated charges, even after I had 20 years of government service under my belt.
To shorten this a bit, Will, I have more doubt that the BATF can be honest than most. I find that it just may be plausible that there was inappropriate action taken by A.) a female who feels she must "prove herself" (but doesn't) amongst her male counter parts and B.) someone who finds their authority challenged by someone she deems as a mere criminal, beneath her contempt. Did it happen? Who knows, you weren't there and neither was I, but I can tell you this, the BATF has stated publicly quite a few times that their main goal has been to restrict the possession of firearms to the best of their ability. IF they get the authority, you can bet your ass that the BATF will go house to house. They'll utilize any means necessary to ensure that you have to prove you aren't a criminal instead of them having to prove you are.
I can tell you as a matter of fact Will, that you, as a BATF agent may feel that you are respected by other federal law enforcement, but the consensus is the opposite, especially inside the FBI. And yes, I could get hired and did. Also, did I mention that I was in the US Army at the time of my encounter with the BATF? The Klintons' care for the military at the time was as disheartening as Rosie O'donnel's return to TV. But I digress.
Sorry to nitpick but it translates to "Storm Rifle"
I am a big proponent of charging the employer who hires the illegal alien under the slavery laws. Why? Simply because they are hiring illegals for the sole purpose of paying less than one half of the money that would be required to hire someone legitimately through higher salaries and taxes. This IS a form of slavery.
Hardball, for the longest time the firearms experts 'talking heads' have referred to the Stg44 as meaning 'assault rifle' in German…HOWEVER I am not one to quibble as from my limited knowlege of the term 'Sturm' -in German military usage-means roughly 'to storm' or 'assult' so it could simply be the 'experts' choose use 'assault' instead of 'storm'…a MINOR semantic hairsplitter.
[...] low level mayors and city councilmen. I’m talking about Obama and Clinton… Here’s a great article about the whole [...]
Anyone notice DHS Janet Napolitano looks like Eddie Izzard in his drag?
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