Stewart, Santelli And Sarcasm
by Dan GiffordSomething didn’t sound quite right when I listened to Jon Stewart’s set-up for his sarcastic blast of CNBC’s Rick Santelli as a hypocrite who thinks federal bailout money for corporate America is just fine while a helping hand from Uncle Sam (a bailout by another name) for strapped mortgage holders isn’t. So I reverted to the method I’d come to rely on while an investigative reporter when I could not follow what a fast talking con artist was actually saying: I transcribed what he said. And sure enough, the words on paper revealed Stewart’s sophistry that my ears could not pinpoint:
Actually, our guest tonight was supposed to be this guy. His name is Rick Santelli. He’s an analyst for CNBC and he’s a former derivatives trader. The reason he became famous was because of a sort of Howard Beale moment on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. He had done some critical reporting on the hundreds of billions of dollars of bailout money going to failed banks, failed auto makers and insurers of failed banks and auto makers (laughter). But when it looked like the president wanted a small percentage of that money to go to actual homeowners, whu ho!!!!! (laughter). David Banner became The Incredible Santelli.
As you can plainly see, Stewart admits Santelli was critical of the federal bailout money that went to fat cats. Why that got a laugh makes me wonder whether Stewart’s audience warm-up includes nitrous oxide. But Stewart could not continue with that acknowledgment and still expect to rip Santelli for being a hypocrite, the most dastardly of demons in the pop pantheon of evil (except for those hypocrites on the political left, of course), because he would then be left without the necessary hypocrisy peg on which to hang Santelli for derision. So Stewart did the only thing he could do, he did a quick trick of the tongue to make the listener forget what he just said.
Stewart did that by quickly implying through his energy and tone of voice that Santelli was for big corporate bailouts but against little homeowners in dire straits being given some tax dollar help. The actual switch is obfuscated within the emotional context of Stewart’s transition. It’s a verbal illusion common to con men, comedians, politicians (which covers both) and some others who make their living manipulating people with spoken words. Some have to learn it, others do it naturally. I’ve no idea which category Stewart falls in, but I first had the technique defined to me and demonstrated while working at a carny side show in Ocean City, Maryland one summer. In it, a pitchman would regularly shame hundreds of people at a time for being greedy, dishonest victimizers of his good nature when they would expect to be given a prize he had offered them earlier for free. Call it an oral bait and switch. Some caught on and walked, but enough actually paid for the item to assuage the guilt the pitchman had tricked them into feeling for him and the show to keep a nice cash flow going.
Whether Stewart is good enough to pull off that pitchman’s trick in front of a cold audience I can’t say, but he was certainly good enough to manipulate his warmed studio audience, his predisposed home audience and the national media’s perception (ok, it’s generally predisposed to Stewart’s side too) of what Santelli actually said to what he wanted them to believe he said. He had to in this case because without creating the impression that Santelli was talking out of both sides of his mouth, Stewart’s whole rip would have made no more sense than his mixed Beale and Banner metaphors except in that alternate sophomoric universe where facts and form don’t matter. But isn’t that where we have been culturally stalled for some time? You know (residuals to Caroline Kennedy), the cosmos where even if something isn’t true, it’s still the truth (more on that line later) because the lie validates the biases generally held by most, in this case, who watch Stewart’s show?
But that’s OK — to a point.
Stewart isn’t doing real news and both he and those behind the scenes are candid about that. Comedy Central Network describes “The Daily Show” as the top name in fake news while its writers say “they do not have any journalistic responsibility and that as comedians their only duty is to provide entertainment.” All literally true. So is one wag’s alternate title for Stewart’s show: “We Pander to Liberals & Attack Conservatives without Scruple,” a rather self evident fact. Even so, Stewart is doing satires on the news which means that, like Michael Moore’s “documentaries,” he cannot be hamstrung by fact, because satire is comedy and, as Moore says, “how can comedy be factual?” even if it’s packaged within a form that is by definition supposed to be a documentation of fact?
What is bothersome about Stewart’s “Daily Show” in that respect is that those who watch it, by my observation at least, tend to be some of America’s brightest in terms of an SAT score. My anecdotal conclusion is buttressed somewhat in a 2004 presidential election study by the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. According to Annenberg researchers, “Daily Show” viewers “know more about election issues than people who regularly read newspapers or watch television news.” Those sampled were asked things like “Who favors allowing workers to invest some of their Social Security contributions in the stock market?” Answer: Bush. And “Who urges Congress to extend the federal law banning assault weapons?” Answer: Kerry. If those two questions are indicative of the rest and set the current bar for being well informed, we have dumbed down as a people much farther than I ever thought.
But if Stewart’s viewers are the best informed, I must also note that most of those viewers I have contact with also qualify as some of this country’s most arrogant, angry and intellectually dishonest. All are traits of successful sarcasm just as they tend to be endemic to those who are the most sarcastic. I await correction if wrong, but my recollection of Stewart’s vicious, cheap shots (another element of sarcasm) at Tucker Carlson’s expense when he tried to do a friendly interview of Stewart causes me to believe I’m spot on. I’m not a fan of Carlson’s dancing or bow ties either, but he appears to be a genuinely nice man who did nothing to provoke the nastiness that Stewart hit him with. If that behavior was the real Stewart, it reveals a repugnant characteristic I have also found among Stewart’s biggest fans. In short, they are often the luminaries of a dark matter, Parkeresque universe in which an ideological whore can be led to knowledge, but not made to think, even within my own family.
A number of those members are past or present top academics at such schools as Johns Hopkins, Duke, UCLA, Stanford and Harvard. They are different people at different universities but they all have one thing in common: their main TV “news” source is Jon Stewart’s “Daily Show.” Same for most of their faculty friends and students from what I have seen. The reason seems to be that they tend to be angry souls who find vicarious release in Stewart’s attacks on people and ideas they consider “bad” (aka conservative) without having to worry that he will gore their own liberal oxen except as an exercise in tokenism. That is especially disturbing because these are the very people that claim to be learned and open minded, but in fact, often do nothing more than perpetuate long disproved beliefs and even outright academic frauds. There are many examples, but two among the college smorgasbord of deceit will do.
RIGOBERTA MENCHU
When “I, Rigoberta Menchu: An Indian Woman in Guatemala” won the 1992 Nobel Peace Prize for her book, Menchu’s first person, personally written account of the evils of capitalism and the brutality of the US financed Guatemalan military against her and other Guatemalan indigenous peoples became required reading in many college classrooms. Still is, even after the book was exposed as a fraud. According to those who checked out her story, Menchu did not write the book, a French Marxist did. Neither did the events in the book happen to her as claimed. They were fabricated along Marxist narrative lines to sell that ideology. So why is an academic fraud still being taught as fact? When I asked Marjorie Agosin, head of the Spanish department at Wellesley College that question many years ago, she said, “Even if it isn’t true, it is still the truth.” The Chronicle of Higher Education (”Many professors say they will stand by Rigoberta Menchu’s memoir”) quotes Agosin as saying, “Whether her book is true or not, I don’t care.” Other professors told me the same thing in different words.
MICHAEL BELLESILES:
When Emory University professor Michael A. Bellesiles published “Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture,” he was roundly hailed for having proven the National Rifle Association and its affiliated “gun nuts” had been lying about historical evidence that the Second Amendment was a guarantee of an individual’s right to own a gun. Bellesiles was
awarded Columbia University’s prestigious Bancroft Prize, among others. That was until a researcher named Clayton Cramer discovered that Bellesiles made it all up. Bellesilles was forced to resign from Emory, his publisher pulled the book and Columbia took back its prize. No matter, Oxford University hired Bellesiles as a distinguished professor and put his book back on the market where it continues to spread an academic fraud.
True to the origin of the term, sarcasm is an especially appropriate form of humor to attack those one hates because of the way it shreds its targets when done well. Stewart certainly does that. But if all humor is redirected hostility and those who tell jokes for a living are inflicting their own inner pain via words that they would like to inflict by physical force if they had the nerve to do it, as I am told, how many comedians besides Ray Romano would dare admit that they would be accountants if their fathers had told them they loved them? More to the point, do we really want to have a comedian’s personal demons setting the standard for national discourse?





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198 Comments
jon stewart, chris mathews, keith olberman, bill mahar, ALL useless idiots. The time is coming when all of these vile people will be off the air without jobs. No one likes their hate filled rhetoric except for the hate filled libs.
Jon Stewart is a clown with delusions of journalistic grandeur, a monkey-boy who dances for our amusement. At least on Cramer's show, there's a disclaimer that warns the viewer that Cramer is entertainment, not to be taken seriously as advice. Stewart's show should have a similar disclaimer.
What-ever…oh yeah, THEY'RE ALL GOING AWAY!!! Ya gotta timetable for that? If only it were that easy in the case of Shill Maher and Freak Olmostaman; hell, we can't even get a proven sexual harasser off the air!
I'm not a fan of John Stewart, and have never been able to sit through his show, and I would ask anyone who does watch to pay attentiion to how often his 'comedy' consists of him mugging, making a face, or acting in a childish fashion. I just don't find it particularly funny. On occassion, do he and his writing staff skewer someone with a clever bit? Sure, but not often enough to overcome the class-clown act.
So, his show appeals to a narrow group of people who like to see childish put-downs of right wingers, regardless of the truth, context, or facts. Who does that really hurt?
I seem to remember some "false but true" National Guard documents………..what do these guys go to some camp to learn this stuff?
I hope you are right but I fear that many like the easy way out……..commentary that confirms their built in biases
Santelli was really tapping into something there! I think all people like genuine sentiment……even when they don't necessarily agree. I, of course, agreed.
Excellent post, Dan. Very insightful. Being a conservative, it was easy to dismiss John Stewart long ago. I was generally put off by all the Bush Derangement Syndrome.
But, indeed, as time has passed, it is easy to see that the caustic tone, the rudeness, the cynicism, the sarcasm… That simply canNOT be good as a steady diet for a polity.
Keep producing the good stuff.
Jon Stewart is like a hemmoroid: you can put ointment on him but he never goes away.
Most people don't even GET the reference to Atlas Shrugged but that book was VERY prophetic and I doubt the author ever thought it would be. But who knows maybe she DID.
Once again, another example of comedian taking himself way too seriously and stopped being funny or clever. Jon Stewart, Bill Maher, Michael Moore, Al Franken, Jeannine Garafalo, Whoopie Goldberg and on, and on and on….
It would be nice if more people like Santelli would step up to the plate and express their TRUE opinion on all of the crap that's being dished out today. We, the average person don't stand a chance in hell of ever being heard but with People like Santelli out there maybe just maybe we will all have a voice.
When I was a young socialist I used to love his show but as I became more and more informed his show became less funny, and gradually more infuriating. I oscillate between who I think is the worst of the bunch, but Jon Stewart is certainly up there. The worst part about him is when he's called out on his BS he hides behind the fact that he's an "entertainer". Pick one, Jon.
Wow Dan, you're spot on today — great post. I've seen the same nonsense in the university where I am a professor, though most of the arguments put forward by the left are devolved pablum. The left wing's paucity of intellectual "diversity" is so very monolithic, narrow, and brittle that it is easily rebutted. At least it is for me in my department. When I counter my left wing colleagues with reason they usually can't respond. I'm not sure if it is because they have nothing to say, or if it is just surprise. And yes, I am a tenured full bull, so they really can't touch me.
You may be a bit surprised yourself to know how many conservatives there are in my college (can't speak for the university). It is a public doctoral research university. While we are no where near a majority, we are there, and we fight a rear guard action against leftist assumptions. And I go out of my way to make sure none of the junior faculty members are Borked at P&T time.
Jack Benny, Groucho Marx, Henny Youngman and other very funny men were comedians, period. They did not inflict their political opinions on the public. Unfortunately for the US, many liberals get both their news and their opinions from this comic, Stewart.
I recently read a piece about Stewart that said he was one of the most influencial newsmen on the air today. This guy caught the BDS before anybody and his nightly vitriole about Iraq kept pounding away at GW and the troops. He's a "commedian,"(used loosely) and like Maher, Frankin, and Colbert, take themselves way too seriously – and incredibally the intelligencia loves his rubber faced snark. IMO, he ripped off Dennis Millers act, who in contrast can be funny at everybody's expense, because he's a political satirist. Not a self-serving, mean-spirited buffoon with dilusions of granduer. No thanks.
Stewart reminds me of those annoying little guys in HS. Never have a good word for anyone, never bring a positive spin to any situation. Irrespective of what Santillii said or didn't, he was a clearly frustrated and angry guy. Given what is happening in the financial world, he was speaking for many millions of us. When the POTUS laughs at us for being upset about the stock market tanking, this adds to the upset. Talk about being a dimwit!
Stewart lives in his own little world. No need to pay attention to him.
My problem with Stewart isn't his politics, but his over-tendency to make goofy faces and dopey voices, as opposed to Dennis Miller, who relies to much on $100K words and archaic references to be really effective; that being said, neither of them come close to the loathsomness of Maher, Garafolo, Franken, and Kathy Griffin…
Clearly Jon Stewart was not hugged enough as a child. His "humor" has only gotten more vicious over the years. I stopped watching him long ago.
http://the100mostannoyingthings.blogspot.com/
[...] I can’t resist a quick pointer to this supremely bizarre attack on Stewart from Big Hollywood. I normally wouldn’t bother, but it’s Spring Break, and [...]
Whenever Gibbs gives his press Conference, you can be sure the Obama Administration cites the "Enemy of the day," Be it Rush, Santelli, Cramer or CNBC.
Like lemmings, Jon Stewart, Anderson Cooper and Andrew Sullivan lead the Democrats to a "Two Minute hate," against the "Enemy of the State," and rank and file democrats and Liberals comply.
Jon Stewart is doing a good job for the Ministry of Truth.
Sarcasm is easy. If Stewart had the chops they would spoof the news. Spoofs are hrder to pull off and makes fools of all where it is deserved.
Remember: libs feel they're better at taking care of you than you are. Maintain that statement in your frontal lobe as you peruse the MSM, politics, and shows like this. I am about to frighten you.
Suddenly, you'll see it. Everything that does not fit that statement becomes a target of one type or another. Religion supposes a superior being. Lib theocracy maintains only the lib can care for you, ergo, religion is apostasy to the lib, since it devolves power from the lib to something or someone else. Even better; if the lib can acquire status within the religion, they can then use the apparatus to further the rule, through the guise of religious teachings.
Self-reliance is apostasy. So is firearm ownership. Financial security through hard work. Family. National Defense.
It's weird just how many conservative value-based ideas come under attack simply because of the rule. When you couple the rule with the assumed superiority of the lib, (their assumed superiority, I assure you), you'll see why libs are so resistant to anything that challenges their assumption: they are superior to you, they know what's best for you, and you cannot be relied on to care for yourself, you will make mistakes, you will fail, you might not succeed without their help, or you might find their desire to help you an anathema to what you really want to do.
This leads inevitably to the need to control, and from there to tyranny. Every time.
Jon Stewart is the master in out of context slams. If you know the facts you can appreciate what he does. The problem is, younger people listen to it like it's the nightly news. Obama should use Jon as his press secretary instead of that tool Gibb – Jon is a fantastic Ozombie. Jon would say to the press "If 1 trillion is a good stimulus then 2 trillion would be better – believe me!" and they will.
Atlas Shrugged- great book, but a tough one to get through for first timers to Ayn Rand's style.
Generally think "Anthem" is a good starter, then maybe Fountainhead, then Atlas Shrugged. We the living ain't bad, but it ain't my favorite.
Very insightful Mr. Gifford, thank you for calling Stewart out on his mean spirited tactics. I also remember Stewart's appearance on Crossfire when he hypocritically accused Tucker of not helping the country because of the shows partisan back and forth. And from that day forward Stewart started making hate filled partisan attacks (passing as humor to the leftist studio audience) the format of his own show “We Pander to Liberals & Attack Conservatives without Scruple”.
There comes a point in a celebrity's life in which he starts believing all the good notices written about him … and his work suffers as a consequence. Stewart is exhibit A.
"But Stewart could not continue with that acknowledgment and still expect to rip Santelli for being a hypocrite, the most dastardly of demons in the pop pantheon of evil (except for those hypocrites on the political left, of course), because he would then be left without the necessary hypocrisy peg on which to hang Santelli for derision. So Stewart did the only thing he could do, he did a quick trick of the tongue to make the listener forget what he just said."
So, then, the thesis of this SHOCKING!! EXPOSE!!! is that Jon Stewart – popular stand-up comedian and host of two successful talk shows – is good at his job?
After the Jerry Springer show went off the air their audience had to gravitate somewhere; Jon Stewart seems like a perfect fit.
You really miss the point of Stewart's humor here. Yes, he mentioned Santelli was critical of the Wall St bailout. But Santelli didn't make as big a fuss about it as he did about a much smaller bailout for some home owners. Get it? Santelli and the folks on Wall St pretend outrage when bailout supports them. But when it goes to Americans outside of Wall St then they go on a rant.
Stewart called him out on it.
What's more the two pieces Stewart did ripping CNBC [the Santelli one was part of the first] was that these business TV idiots don't really know much at all. They are just as clueless as the rest of us about the economy. However, they are much worse because they pretend to be experts and give advise that is quite often way off the mark and – in the case of Cramer and Bear Stearns – was particularly embarrassing.
Anyway, I don't know how anyone could defend Santelli over his loony rant.
If you looked closely at most of the supportive articles for Stewart, like dissecting a transcription of the spiel, you would find the other sections of the media there. Since the ownership of many of these disparate channels of media falls under the same name, then you begin to see the business plan. It's cross-selling, they try to create their own synergy to sell the soap. Pretty simple stuff. Ebert was one of the first to go, no bad reviews unless there was an agenda supported an opinion expressed in another channel. Bring into the mix all the People and Silver Screen mags with tv shows like E! and Entertainment Tonight ( eventually devolving to tmz), why do you think anyone ever listened to Sean Penn ? That also reflects back to the former article about a lack of heroes in movies.
=====Anyway, I don't know how anyone could defend Santelli over his loony rant.=======
That's probably because you're an economic illiterate; and don't project your ignorance on the "TV idiots” who you say “don't really know much at all.” When you have schizophrenic policies coming from DC it’s difficult to forecast what direction the economy will go. We bailout some companies but we let others like Lehman Brothers fail.
Now what we’re witnessing is just the greatest monetary theft in human history. We’re spending a billion dollars an hour with nothing to show for it; people are still losing jobs and businesses are shutting down. Why are there no results? Because the money is going to leftwing groups, towards govt expansion and the unions. 80% of Americans are employed by small/mid size businesses. If the govt were truly interested in helping the economy they would reduce the tax burden on the private sector. But obama and his posse of illiterates are not interested in that, what they want is consolidation of power.
Dan, great post.
The difference between dumb and stupid is that dumb actually doesn't know any better. Stupidity is a choice. It can involve extensive expenditures of intelligence and erudition to maintain the illusion of plausible deniability about the flaws of one's argument. Jon Stewart is one of many examples of an intelligent, educated, profoundly stupid individual.
Well put.
Also, Stewart cannot stand it when a guest is building an effective argument that runs counter to his partisan dogma. Cannot stand it, and will not allow the case to be stated in full. He will interrupt the guest loudly, and then mock him, and cackle, encouraging his ovine audience to act as if they're all listening to an insane person.
He did that to John McCain a couple years ago, when McCain insisted that the situation in Iraq, then dire, was taking a turn for the better. We now know with a surety that it was. Stewart laughed at McCain like he was an imbecile.
Re Cramer and Bear Stearns. That clip was taken out of context. If you had any investigatorial zeal, you would have already read Cramer's own rejoinder to said malfeasance. But, that would require, I'm quite certain, a brain, and anyone who seriously endeavors to defend Jon Stewart's integrity has not one.
Good day sir.
Why would you conclude I am 'economically illiterate' because I don't trust what I hear from CNBC? It is absolutely true that most idiots on TV don't know much and, worse, they advocate only for themselves. If you want truth about the economy you go look at the real world. You don't listen to some talking head on TV. What are you now defending NBC news?
These 'schizophrenic policies' started with Bush. Now, you say there are no results. Tell me [mr economically literate] how Washington could possibly come up with a plan that would save the economy and get results in two months? You have to realize the economy has been in free fall for a while. Turning it around and saving the entire system is not going to happen over night. That said, while I agree the government is putting a lot of money out there what would you suggest they do? Nothing except let the banks fail?
If indeed that is your choice then tell me how is that going to get anything other than worse results?
The credit and bank crisis is serious. Until this is fixed most small businesses will fail because they cannot get loans.
Umm, Sir…If you read my original post I noted there were 'two pieces' Steward did.
The SECOND one refutes Cramer's rejoiner and shows Cramer was even more clueless [and possibly a liar] than before.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?vid...
Do some investigation of your own…dude.
You know, it never ceases to amaze me how journalists and pundits can take pot shots and write scathing reviews of politicians all day and expect them to take it, but as soon as someone says anything bad about one of them, that person is demonized. We always talk about how you have to have a thick skin to be in politics, maybe TV newsmen need to grow some too. That's the price you pay for being on TV, especially when you screw up. But I simply can not believe that this is getting so much play in the media. Good Lord, John Stewart is a comedian, he's a clown who makes jokes at other people's expense. That's what comedians do. So he takes a shot at you, you blow it off, and the next day he moves on to something else. If, however, you decide to shoot back…well you've just given him a week's worth of material. It's the same way you deal with a heckler at a live stand-up show. If you don't like what he says, blow him off. change the channel, move on and let it go away. Don't whine about it and give it legs to run.
Oh and as far as wording the truth to fit an agenda…let the modern journalist who is without sin cast the first sharpened pencil.
Our nation…because these people also happen to be VOTERS.
The One is happy to suggest all those things the teacher's union hates because the federal government has no power to force them to happen…unless they tie federal money to those conditions. And since there is NO WAY Pelosi and Reid would support those ideas, he knows it's nothing more than his "Sister Souljah" moment.
Looks like it's troll day.
I preferred the Fountainhead to Atlas Shrugged, but I thought it was a much more difficult read.
I take if you've thrown on the chains of oppression and joined us dark forces of capitalism then?
the point of the article, which obviously went right over you r head, is that stewart in disingenuous at best, but usually a lying manipulator of the young & ignorant. Gee, it's hard to tell falsehoods to un informed people, isn't it? Kind of like shooting fish in a barrel, right?
Colbert the CHARACTER takes himself too seriously, as opposed to the "real" Maher, Garafalo, Franken; big difference…
Very well diagnosed Dr. M.
What I would add is a point of irony. If you ask a liberal, they will always tell you that they know how to run their own lives and they don't want the government telling them what to do — right to privacy, legalize drugs, down with the cops and government snooping, etc. But they see no conflict with simultaneously advocating that the government control every aspect of everyone's lives — just not theirs.
Like all leftists, you have no idea what you're talking about yet you feel free to state "facts" that just aren't true. Is it a compulsion?
I agree. That's why I was so happy that Santelli finally got some press. He's been critical of all the garbage this administration (and the prior) have been doing. He calls them like he sees them, and I agree with the way he see them.
- "The difference between dumb and stupid is that dumb actually doesn't know any better. Stupidity is a choice"
Stupidity is no choice. It refers to a certain I.Q. level, somewhere above moron and below retard. "Dumb" literally means unable to speak.
“Even if it isn’t true, it is still the truth.”
Good to remind people about the holy "narrative". It's how the Left rolls. Only, always, endlessly.
And remember what the editor of Newsweek (Evan Thomas, I believe) said after his journal's story about Koran-flushing at Gitmo was proved bogus: "the facts may have been wrong, but the narrative was right."
The guy's right. Both Stewart and Colbert have gotten record setting web traffic to Comedy Central's website since CNBC got pissy about the routines. The more everybody whines, the more Viacom makes. Cramer may, by himself, drive more traffic to CC than South Park.
=====Tell me [mr economically literate] how Washington could possibly come up with a plan that would save the economy and get results in two months?=====
Eliminate the mark-to-market accounting practice immediately. Slash the corporate tax rate to 5%. Give all small business owners like myself a tax break. Dissolve Fannie/Freddie. Give all the donks a good flogging on national tv.
=====These 'schizophrenic policies' started with Bush.=====
Unfortunately that is correct.
Like some conservatives you're all snark and no substance. Care to actually make a case for your politcal position? BTW the fact that you use the term 'like all leftists' should disqualify you since it is intellectually dishonest and lazy. It is a compulsion with you to alway be so lazy?
You're talking denotation.
But in actual use, the dumb/stupid distinction is usually like Stergeye said.
e.g.
"Just plain dumb."
"What a stupid decision."
I won't disagree that a cut in corporate tax rates is a good idea in some cases. But it would not necessariy create jobs. It is debatable for sure. It certainly could but bringing the tax rate down so low would create other issues. I'm not sure many Republicans are behind slashing it to 5%. Most want 25% or so rather than where it stands today.
Nope, not interested in you. DFTT
===== I won't disagree that a cut in corporate tax rates is a good idea in some cases. But it would not necessariy create jobs.=====
And you wonder why I called you an economic illiterate. Larger corporations have left and are leaving the US for friendlier business environments overseas. The US has the second highest corporate tax rate, Japan has the highest. By eliminating corporate tax rates or bringing it down to 5% will bring US corporations back to the US along with foreign investors. That translates into jobs and revenue for the federal govt.
=====I'm not sure many Republicans are behind slashing it to 5%=====
Republicans are as useless as the democrats. What the nation needs are Conservatives.
I find it infuriating that the MSM describes Stewart as a "newsman" when he is nothing more than an arrogant, sophmoric left-wing comedian – as are so many of the top liberal mouthpieces today. I agree with Dan Gifford when he says that the people he knows who are fans of John Stewart tend to be arrogant, angry and intellectually dishonest. I, too, have many people in my friends and family who are John Stewart fans, and they definitely hold themselves in very high esteem, while being angry, cynical and downright haughty in the way they sneer at their intellectual inferiors on the right. Try to debate these folks and you end up not with a reasonable discussion of the facts, but an angry, heated, name-calling, nasty bucket of vitriol thrown in your face. In this season of Obama, I have seen family relationships shattered by the arrogance and intolerance of my lefty friends and family. So much for Hope and Change and Bi-Partisan coming together. And thanks, John Stewart, for your contribution to this unfortunate mindset.
Excellent suggestion: this is, in fact, exactly what I did in the last two months: I first read Anthem, then Fountainhead, then the formidable Atlas Shrugged, which was a beast to get through but very rewarding. Has inspired much more clear-headed arguments for my delusional lib friends.
It's time to bring back the Misery index.
"But in actual use, the dumb/stupid distinction is usually like Stergeye said."
Not that I've ever noticed. It would be very easy to switch the words in your examples without disturbing their meaning. If I were to say, "Just plain stupid," and, "What a dumb decision," would anything of substance have changed?
In popular parlance, the words "dumb" and "stupid" hold the same meaning. That is, unintelligence. I'm not familiar with the association of "dumb" with innate unintelligence and "stupid" with acquired unintelligence. Methinks those associations were just made up by Stergeye. Certainly they are not upheld by the words' original meanings.
Andrew, Skating on glue,
I am just curious, what do mean by "much more difficult read" and SOG, "tough one for first timers?" I haven't read it in a good many years, but both of you guys made remarks that I'm just not getting. Oh, yeah, Santelli's cool, he has always seemed pretty decent to me. Now Cramer, he's just a nut. Seriously, he thought because some Conservatives reached out to him, in sympathy for being bashed by the O-bots, that he might have confused people about his far lefty ideology. Uh, no. Anyone who has ever watched him a few times knows where he stands politically!
Behar, O'Donnell, Roseanne, Will Ferrell, and those are just the most popular ones, if we went down the tiers the numbers grow.
People like Stewart, Olberman, Matthews and Maddow are particularly repugnant for the fact that they land neither on the sideof heroism or villainy, but the gray in-between, where truth and lies are blended for confusion's sake and a cheap laugh is, after all, still a laugh. Their sole contributions to the world are cynicism and division. The quicker we tune them out the better.
I had high hopes at first but I could never find Jon S. funny. Even Franken was funny his first couple years. What's ironic is that really talented satirists could have had a field day with the fifty days of glory. If they had a show.
I still think you're giving these guys too much credit. Of course Stewart's sole contribution to society is cynicism and division…this is a guy who basically tells presidential dick jokes for a living.
I find it endlessly amusing that Jon Stewart considers himself intelligent.
I've never read Rand, but I hear Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series covers pretty much the same philosophy. Very easy to read.
I've never read Rand, but I hear Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series covers pretty much the same philosophy. Very easy to read.
I remember someone questioning Stewart about his influence on other people's opinions. He said something to the effect of: "I come on between sock puppets and foul mouthed third graders. If people think this is a news show, they've got bigger problems." This was before 2002. Shame he grew an ego since then.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I miss Craig Kilborn.
Teachers' unions exist solely to prop up bad teachers. Do away with the lot of them. As my dad (a teacher for 30+ years) said, "If you're teaching for the money, instead of teaching for the students, you're doing it wrong." He's also a die-hard liberal with BDS. Go figure.
Ok, you caught me, I never read either. I just wanted to be cool. (Just kidding).
I thought Atlas Shrugged (AS) was an easier read because it was more plot focused than Fountainhead (FH), which is much more character focused. AS follows a rather standard plot narrative format with one action leading to the next — girl loves train, bad guys covet train, girl loses train, girl moves to paradise to build new train.
FH, on the other hand, meanders much more through its plot because it’s about the evolution of the characters from your first impressions to their ultimate exposure as either good or evil.
(cont)
Hell, shooting fish in a coffee can would be harder than lying to stoned college students. Yeah, Jon, I'm impressed.
I would say his rant was the result of additive frustration not exclusive frustration. As Stewart admits, Santelli was critical of corporate bailouts before. Perhaps to him, it was a last straw and the home owner bailout was the unlucky one that got in the way. I'm saying this not because I can read his mind but that's how I empathize with him. Stewart projects his suppositions onto Santellii based on his own leftist bias.
I miss Craig Kilborn.
What's really funny is that these comedians who are supposed to be funny and make people laugh seem to be really unhappy people themselves.
You haven't read Sword of Truth until you've read it in its original Klingon… wait, wrong thread. Sorry.
The best solution, in my opinion, is the most painful. Let the market sort itself out. If a business fails, tough. Either business will adjust, or it will tank, and if it tanks, then something else will get created to fill the gap. If American cars can't compete in American markets, I don't see why my taxes should pay for them.
I bought a car last year. My wife has a Saturn, which she loves, and I had a used Mitsubishi coupe, which I loved. The problem was a child car seat wouldn't fit in my coupe. We were planning on having more than two kids, so we needed a minivan or SUV. You can't fit three kids in a sedan anymore. We stopped first at Saturn, because we'd been taught that buying American is our patriotic duty. Saturn's cheapest offering was over $30,000, before taxes, fees, etc. My wife, a Saturn owner, asked about loyalty discounts. Saturn doesn't give those, apparently.
Cont'd.
in truth, stewart et al are symptomatic of a greater problem, that of a decline in critical thinking. we do not teach classical rhetoric anymore in our schools. classes in basic reasoning are now detached from the craft of oratory (speech), and writing (composition). anyone who has studied rhetoric knows that stewart et al do not engage in debate, but instead sully their discourse with logical fallacies and loaded language that betray any semblance of intellectual honesty. stewart is nothing more than a sophist, and a bad one at that. insults and not so subtle nuance disguised as jokes are what passes for news for some people. but then again, the left can't debate the issues, so instead they deal in personal attacks and are all too happy to dismiss anyone who disagrees with such insults. it's not surprising, but it is a sad legacy of "progressive" education.
cont'd
We went next door to the Hyundai dealership. Neither of us had ever owned a Hyundai. Their dealer: "I see you have an infant. You're going to need all the money you can get, so we're giving you the loyalty discount." Sticker was 18,000. We drove off in our new car for less than that.
We voted with our dollar, and now the government is disenfranchising us. I don't like that much. It's tantamount to saying: "American auto manufactureres, continue price gouging. Continue screwing the consumer. We'll pay you, even if they won't."
I've heard it stated thus: Ignorance is curable, but stupid is terminal. That better avoids the semantics arguments.
try reading some of ayn's philosophy. she is easy to read and her arguments are very well crafted. she has been mislabeled by many as being some sort of right winger. the truth is, she supported abortion, and wrote some very convincing arguments in favor or abortion – even though i disagree with her position. her support of capitalism, and her unfaltering faith in man's ingenuity are needed now more than ever…
Same thing with Rush. All Obama's doing is increasing the listenership.
Replace Klingon with High D'Haran, and you're onto something…
Frankly, this is just Stewart trying to ride the coattails of a more famous man.
P.S. Santelli is awesome — one of the first news guys I've ever heard mention Atlas Shrugged!
everyone is a capitalist, they just don't always know it. just try an experiment with a group of kids. if you try to redistribute their toys or their allowance you'll get an ear full of "but that's not fair!" and you know what? they are right! we teach our kids to share thier toys, but sharing is one thing…when the other kid gets to take the toy home that's a whole 'nother ball game…
Did Stewart cheat on his taxes? If yes, then what is Obama waiting for?
no, the point is that viewers are unskilled in recognizing sophistry and logical fallacies…which is evident not only in the past election, but in the viewer ship of such shows of, "the view," olberman, and yes, "the daily show." it's fake news passing as real news, and intellectual dishonesty passing as debate – none of which is healthy for the political culture of this representative republic…or any other for that matter…
logic~
the solution is to bring back classical rhetoric. we can clearly see the decline in critical thinking here.
This is a great post, but I was disappointed you agreed with the label "fake news show." Its not. Stewart's show reports on real news and then offers left wing commentary that's disguised as "comedy." I'm sure you're aware of the various studies done showing that The Daily Show offers the same amount of substantive news as official news broadcasts.
I think its important to recognize what his show is. The regular viewers of the show do learn about what's going on in the world, but get it through a left wing prism. Claiming his show is "fake news" lets Stewart get off the hook for the effect he has on so many people. I met a lot of people during college whose understanding of politics and world events was shaped by Jon Stewart. My own brother is one of them.
Will Rogers did inflict his political opinions, often in a very funny way. Rogers was a Democrat, but his Democrat party was hardly the extreme liberal version that prevails today. While lamenting somewhat an unequal distribution in wealth, Rogers, IMHO, represented a more pragmatic, mainstream view, a "heartland conservatism" to borrow Camille Paglia's description of Rush Limbaugh's philosophy.
Well I think Santelli was ripe for poking fun at. His rant was sort of typical of rich wall street types who care little for middle America.
The greater point of Mr Gifford's post is the selective presentation of the facts (i.e. propaganda) that even today's best and brightest are being fed, and the unquestioning nature of the response. You'd think purveyors of higher education would want free minds debating all ideas, and selecting the best from all this. The real dilemna posed here is that the old axiom- those that can't do, teach- is still very true, and that is why they have inculcated themselve with a socialist bureacracy (NEA, etc.) to protect their own weak and worthless at the peril of society. So, sprouting programmed left wing mantras can get you a lifetime appointment and $38k a year.
'The One' has proposed merit pay. That, like charter schools and vouchers are all good ideas the unions hate.
We'll see how far he is willing to go with this, and considering this mess of an omnibus spending bill had language stuffed into it killing the only voucher program in D.C., and would take african-american children out of Sidwell Day School where his daughters go- he signed it hiding under his desk- well, don't expect much…
Many economists and most Democrats would disagree with you. Are they all economically illiterate? While I think you are sincere you must also admit you are spinning a right wing talking point, which is fine – but no less a spin. And I am spinning a liberal one.
But we have done pretty well in this country without cutting the tax rates. And note that no one [not even Republicans] have cut them much.
Maybe business owners and CEOs need to consider giving themselves a pay cut?
Yahoo finance, my first stop in the morning to raise my blood pressure, had a link to an article regarding Cramer. I think some of you will like it…….
"I never thought I'd say this, but poor Jim Cramer.
Ever since late-night comedian Jon Stewart ripped into CNBC last week — singling out some of the horrendous market calls on the business network over the past year — Cramer has emerged as Public Pinata No. 1.
The problem with Cramer is that he's a moth to publicity's flame. Instead of letting Stewart's parade of embarrassing CNBC video clips — most of them unrelated to Cramer — rest, TheStreet.com's (Nasdaq: TSCM) fiery rock star took to the airwaves to defend himself. This has only escalated matters, and now Cramer will face off with Stewart on The Daily Show tonight.
Continued……….
"Jackpot," Cramer is probably thinking, with a shot to redeem himself and win over a new audience.
"Idiot," I say, fully aware of the trap that he is about to step into.
The Daily Show isn't just a misnomer because it's on four nights a week
Stewart, I'm sorry to say, is a financial ignoramus. His comedic timing and satirical jabs are impeccable, but he couldn't dollar-cost average his way out of a wet paper bag."
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2009/03/12/...
"Ignorance is curable, but stupid is terminal. That better avoids the semantics arguments."
Well, yeah, because stupidity and ignorance are two completely different things. You can't raise your I.Q. by studying.
Santelli is from middle America, not Wall Street. Fail.
It's not just rich people who'd be pissed at that, it's renters as well. They must feel like chumps for not getting on the housing bubble and have their mortgage paid with other people's money. Fail again.
The problem with Jon's show is that he does not have the time to go over issues in depth. It's a comedy show and the funny part is the "drive by" comments. Explaining the issues in full would be boring for people that have an attention span of a gnat or those looking for something to laugh at.
If he explained the dangers of socialism and how it utterly destroys a society's willingness to take risks and create wealth, the brain dead Ozombies would change the channel – he knows his audience and they are not deep thinkers.
I believe that describes the Katie Couric show too!! :~)
People call The Daily Show "fake news" because it is essentially a parody of news shows, not because it makes up stories, á la The Onion. But you're right, it is misleading. A whole lot more of Stweart's time is devoted to criticizing real life than to parodying it. That's probably why I enjoy The Onion so much more, though both are equally smart-ass and facile.
Yeah, Santelli sure was "critical" of the federal bailout of Wall Street! Who could forget Santelli's famous call for a Wall Street Tea Party when AIG and BofA were getting billions. He sure unloaded on all those Wall Street Losers!
Stewart was dead solid perfect right. He was funny and relevant and he pwned CNBC and the right like they were a bunch of Chihuahuas. CNBC, now OWNED by J. Stewart and Comedy Central. I hope that bonehead Cramer douches up good before he goes on the air with Stewart tonight to suck up and make it all stop. He will want to make sure he is at his freshest. But I'll say one thing for Cramer: at least he has the guts to go on the Daily Show unlike that simpering mongrel Santelli who ran and hid.
Usually the Trolls they send here at least have some knowledge of what they're talking about. You must be new on the job.
Remember: libs feel they're better at taking care of you than you are. Maintain that statement in your frontal lobe as you peruse the MSM, politics, and shows like this. I am about to frighten you.
Suddenly, you'll see it. Everything that does not fit that statement becomes a target of one type or another. Religion supposes a superior being. Lib theocracy maintains only the lib can care for you, ergo, religion is apostasy to the lib, since it devolves power from the lib to something or someone else. Even better; if the lib can acquire status within the religion, they can then use the apparatus to further the rule, through the guise of religious teachings. Self-reliance is apostasy. So is firearm ownership. Financial security through hard work. Family. National Defense.
It's weird just how many conservative value-based ideas come under attack simply because of the rule. When you couple the rule with the assumed superiority of the lib, (their assumed superiority, I assure you), you'll see why libs are so resistant to anything that challenges their assumption: they are superior to you, they know what's best for you, and you cannot be relied on to care for yourself, you will make mistakes, you will fail, you might not succeed without their help, or you might find their desire to help you an anathema to what you really want to do.
This leads inevitably to the need to control, and from there to tyranny. Every time.
Actually, I like Dennis Miller because you have to be literate to understand his humor. I like that. With Jon Stewart and the rest of them, all you have to do is know who's in the pictures in People magazine.
Sounds like a stewart lackie. Either that or it IS stewart.
This is pretty much my argument when someone is trying to tell me that people are much more "evolved" and that eventually war will be obsolete. I tell them to put two kids in a sandbox with one toy and see if they coexist peacefully for any length of time. Some things change, human nature not so much.
I question whether any of the posters watched the skit in question. While Stewart does spin the facts a bit, so does every reporter. At least with Stewart they tend to use the video clips of the media they are satirizing instead of just flippantly lipping off. That was the beauty of the satire. It showed MSNBC reporters directly contradicting their own statements. When Stewart was mocking Santelli, the genius bit was pointing out the obvious conflict of stock traders, likely employed by banks that had just received trillions in bailout funds, mocking the plan to give Joe the Homeowner the ability to rewrite his loans in conjunction with a bankruptcy judge and have the whole deal underwritten by the government. Any one who has been paying attention should be aghast that day traders would have the gal to criticize homeowners in jeopardy.
"the point of the article, which obviously went right over you r head, is that stewart in disingenuous at best, but usually a lying manipulator of the young & ignorant."
Does it make you feel better to pretend that this guy's show is successful… but only with "the young and the ignorant?" I hope it does, because otherwise it's a difficult-to-maintain lie that thus serves no purpose. Disagree all you want with the content of it's politics, but every study and breakdown thats been done on such things has shown TDS to have among the most well-informed, intelligent audiences on cable. Dumb kids don't watch it, they're watching the (higher rated) programs on E! and MTV. "Daily's" whole existance is making jokes about the day's news cycle for and audience sarcasm-prone news-junkies who've been watching the cables all day – that audience may be many things, but ignorant isn't one of them. It's a grave error to assume that your opponent is dumb for disagreeing with you.
Yes, they are economic, socially, and personal responsibility illiterate, as well as in other things.
Case in point: If communism and socialism works, why don't their economies dominate? Why does socialism require free market capitalism to survive on?
Why do these policies require control of the populace to be involved?
Why does adoption of these policies require the successful to be diminished to the lower denominator through law and forced transfer of asset, rather than the lower reach upward toward the plateau of the higher without any interference of any kind?
I don't know what I'm talking about??? No wonder the right got creamed in November. You don't have to be a Stewart partisan to know that he completely boned CNBC and that pack of hacks they have working over there. All you have to do is watch what CNBC is doing. They are in AGONY! Stewart skewered them but good. Cramer is GOING ON THE SHOW TONIGHT! The pathos and misery in the column up above by humorless right wing nobody Dan Gifford is proof that Stewart once again creamed the righties at CNBC. Rigoberta Menchu??? WHAT???? Gotta drag out some obscure academic fan of Stewart's hoping something will rub off? Talk about not not knowing what you're talking about. Well, toodles! Be sure to catch The Daily Show tonight when Jim Cramer is almost certain to try to evolve a brand new vagina.
This is a tempest in a teapot.
Usage changes over time, and not necessarily to the better. "Gay" used to be happy. Now it implies pride in having sex with one's own gender. I can say "I'm gay." and be correct, but that will not assuage those who think my best self concept is doing guys.
You can Dennis Miller usage until you expire from lack of oxygen, but the point remains. One now is common with ignorance that can be corrected through education. The other is now avocation of a position despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. In example: I can convince one to let go of the log that they're using to float with in the ocean, and save them. The other, dies.
This is a tempest in a teapot.
Usage changes over time, and not necessarily to the better. "Gay" used to be happy. Now it implies pride in having sex with one's own gender. I can say "I'm gay." and be correct, but that will not assuage those who think my best self-concept is doing guys.
You can Dennis Miller usage until you expire from lack of oxygen, but the point remains. One now is common with ignorance that can be corrected through education. The other is now avocation of a position despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. In example: I can convince one to let go of the log that they're using to float with in the ocean, and save them. The other, dies.
Actually, Stewart's audience came out near the bottom of the list when they did a poll to find out how informed the different audiences were. The results showed that, as a group, they were pretty stupid.
I recently read a piece about Stewart that said he was one of the most influencial newsmen on the air today. This guy caught the BDS before anybody and his nightly vitriole about Iraq kept pounding away at GW and the troops. He's a "commedian,"(used loosely) and like Maher, Frankin, and Colbert, take themselves way too seriously – and incredibly the intelligencia loves his rubber faced snark. IMO, he ripped off Dennis Millers act, who in contrast can be funny at everybody's expense, because he's a political satirist. Not a self-serving, mean-spirited buffoon with dillusions of granduer. No thanks.
'wall street types' doesn't necessarily mean from wall street. Look, he works at CNBC and is a talking head. I am skeptical of any TV talking head whether it be O'Reilly or Olbermann or whom ever you can name. He has become a patron saint to the Right wing, which is another reason to doubt his views.
That said, it was good to see that Santelli wrote recently on CNBC website:
"I have no political agenda and any person, organization, or media outlet that claims otherwise IS INACCURATE. I hope that the President and the final stimulus plan succeed."
I disagree–he repeatedly calls it "fake news," and it airs on _Comedy_ Central. If you think it's a real news show, well, then, you are dumb–not that there aren't plenty of them. I wouldn't call the news he gives substantive as the stories are so clearly tongue in cheek, full of bleeped profanities, etc. I like the show–always have–but I get news from other sources and know I'm watching satire. It lightens up the news, which is usually depressing. If one needs proof that Stewart isn't a real 'newsman,' his interviews are often cringe worthy if hes going for more than the typical talk show book blurbs. (The Jonah Goldberg "Liberal Fascism" one, for example)
Why do [some] Conservatives insist on dragging out the tired old arguments that democrats want communism and socialism?
I don't recall the Bill Clinton years as being particularly communistic. In fact capitalism did pretty well. We can begin to have a debate when you understand that communism is a total failure and well known. There is no one democrat I know personally who wants communism. Not one. What we want is pretty much what we have had since FDR which is capitalism with some government oversight.
BTW are you aware that the top marginal tax rate during the Reagan era fluctuated between 28% and 69% and it averaged around 50%. While Obama is proposing 39.6%? Was Reagan a communist? Was Eisenhower who's top marginal was 91%!
That link would be here:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayaf...
And the only people screaming are Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the people who listen to them.
The rest of us are trying to find a way to deal with the banking crisis. FDR did it and we didn't become socialist.
Bill Maher is a special kind of scumbag but at least he has more balls than stewart. I have never seen that metersexual smart-ass come out from behind the skirt of his Show and his army of writers and actually debate someone intelligent from the right. Ann Coulter would waste him and the only way he would have a chance is if he was in a forum where his army of youthful sycophants could cheer and bray at his every word. I think he would fall down and cry if he had to debate in a forum unfriendly to him.
I must find a link I read the other day that a far lefty teacher posted , on this very subject. She posted all about what it would take to get her on board with merit pay. I will hunt the link and post it, everyone should see how these selfless teachers think.
Where did Springer go off the air, exactly????? It comes on three times a day at my house, and according to my hubby, one of the bouncers? from his show has his own talk show on in the afternoons. Gahk. How does one go about getting it removed? I am certainly willing to do my part, for human kind. Oh yeah, and the double dose of Maury daily, too. I have come to believe that some of those hos on there get knocked up just so they can have a "career" on Maury. Heaven help us all. Stewart, for all his disgusting and childish facial expressions, (dude, you're 50ish, give it up), works on the college age group well, whether they go to college, or not. It just seems to draw them. My kids, both, have watched it, they know it is BS, but they still will watch it, hanging out w/ their friends.
First president to ever do that too. Crazy.
Again, there's a difference between Bill Maher and Stewart. Maher, who btw I find reprehensible in his belittling of anyone with a shred of religious belief, styles himself as a commentator. His show is a panel discussing real issues, and while he does do some comedic bits, his show is meant to focus real discussion on current events. Jon Stewart has never made such claims and has in fact been adamant in his goals for his show, which are to entertain not inform. Bill Maher is a true threat to conservative beliefs and has made no bones about the fact that he is intent on leading a venomous crusade against anyone who doesn't agree with him that conservatives are idiots. Stewart is a clown, nothing more, nothing less. Again guys, everyone is giving him too much credit.
Also, the characters in AS are fairly typical characters. But the characters in FH are archetypes, they are meant to represent philosophical positions. So when Roark acts, it isn’t always clear why he did what he did until you stop to think about how his actions relate to his political philosophy. Taggart, on the other hand, just responds as any right thinking person would. So to me, this made FH a much more complex and thoughtful book.
Lastly, while I think AS was an easier read, FH had a much stronger pull on me, though I enjoyed both immensely — I'm just not so happy to be living AS right now.
Thoughts?
FDR wanted very badly to turn this nation into a socialist nation, the only difference between then and now is the fact that people protested. I would not keep on the FDR track for long if I were you, he was not a good president. Thanks for the link
Stewart is the colloseum, his audience is the mob, and his show is sending conservatives to the lions.
While I do (did) find him funny to a certain degree, his rhetoric has become so patently partisan that it is difficult to stomach him any longer. Unfortunately the mob mentality expressed by his audience seems only to be growing as he appeals to the lowest common denominator. Most ironic and distressful, is that his highly educated audience have removed their brains and replaced them with talking points and a dogmatic view of politics that will ultimately be destructive to both them and us as a nation.
That's Senator Franken to you.
Usually the Trolls they send here at least have some knowledge of what they're talking about. You don't. You must be new on the job. Go back to Huffopo troll.
So it bugs you that intelligent young people watch Stewart – what would you rather have them watch? Sean Hannity? Bill O'Reilly? Keith Olbermann? Should they be listening to Rush Limbaugh or Al Franken? Is that going to increase their understanding the issues?
What you are missing is this – Stewart is successful because, besides being funny, he's far more intellectually honest than any of these other cable news talking heads, who will never, ever admit the other side is right, or deviate from the party line. Does he come at things from a left-wing perspective? Absolutely. But he also isn't afraid to pick on Obama and the Dems. And, in case you haven't noticed, the Republicans have provided a lot of material to work with over the past 8 years:-)
Well we only have your word for those numbers moddem. Do you have a link to some info that we're not privvy to? As for actually coming right out and stating that they do or do not want socialism etc, well of course they aren't going to come right out and say it, however; ACTIONS speak louder then words ever will and obama's administration is not only speaking socialism/communism but they are SCREAMING it from the roof tops.
For all the talk of the 'intellectual dishonesty' of stewart's comedy program there seems to be an amazing amount of intellectual dishonesty in this article.
the sly trick he pulls of using his purely anecdotal evidence to insult stewarts fans and then throwing a barely related academic study in the middle of his argument. he talks about how the left are so empty intellectually stating outright that their ideas are factually wrong (never citing which ones, never citing evidences). he goes on a rant about how arrogant these liberals are describing it as a near intellectual crime to watch a comedy show where the comedian agrees with your point of view. if a conservative comedian could muster up the kind of quality comedy that stewart has it seems unlikely that the roles wouldn't immediately reverse with conservatives defending the new comedian and liberals renouncing in much the same way.
More importantly though is the question he asks at the end of the article that shows his utter ignorance of the argument that stewart has been trying to make for as long as i've been watching him ( a few years now). the answer to the question do we want a comedian's personal demons leading the discourse of the nation is obviously no and stewart would agree. for as long ive been watching, stewart spends most of his time simply criticizing and poking fun at the press, looking for a higher standard from them more then anything else. when he went on crossfire he was criticizing them for being partisan hacks asking them why there cant be a higher level of discourse (not simply because hes a cruel and dark man as this article decides). same thing with this msnbc stuff, hes simply asking why in so many of these shows is there such a treatment of the channel's opinion as fact. these people should admit they don't know how to predict the market and there should be more of an investigative side to things. the people on this site who champian intellectual honesty should be welcoming this approach…but there not, why? because he's a liberal.
Wow, I seem to have stumbled into a nest of loony-tunes. The Far Right's Echo-Chat on the Left being "lemmings" or lacking in critical thinking is a nice try at Orwellian 1984-"black is white" "up is down" talk, but more and more people are not buying what you are pushing any more.
Guess what, the Far-Right had a chance to make their conservative and neocon case for a decade, and they got it wrong. Their leaders and pundits twisted facts, manipulated data and basically lied to con people, but in the end they didn't just get it wrong about a few things, they got it wrong about pretty much everything. Yup, everything.
Sure the Fringe-Right can try saying now "Oh, we forgot our roots! And we have go back to our conservative traditions" but the truth is, they were full of it then, and they're full of it now. Especially now, because so many on the fringe Right refuse to learn, but instead get louder, more desperate and more belligerent.
Meanwhile, Stewart may well win a Peabody for that interview, and all of you on the Fringe-Right can moan more about the biased media, and how smarty-pants liberals with their higher SAT scores and fancy educations don't know anything.
And you'll be wrong once again.
Have you lost your mind? Really. What wing nuts are you listening to?
You think Santillii is speaking for more frustrated Americans than Stewart?
You really think that Obama is laughing mockingly at people who are upset at the stock market?
Who told you that, Rush? (He has so many nice words for people, doesn't he?)
Stewart's overall point was the CNBC has a responsibility to do more reporting on the financial industry and less cheerleading. Do you really disagree with that? Really?
As PBHO has to this date said one thing, done something totally different, then said he wouldn't do it again except this time; I could care less what he says. I'll let you follow the bouncing lie.
DFTT
Excellent article. I have often wondered when Americans will see the inherent problem in relying on comedians to educate them and their children. When schools fail so miserably in doing the job right, first. It's no wonder a slick voice artist, like Stewart or Maher can convert so many and reinforce the notions that the converted already feel.
Folks like Stewart must be thinking, Facts? Who needs 'em? We've got notions and the ability to slander with impunity already. Facts would only be a burden to someone who already possesses such a mandate to set cultural policy among the populace. It would be about as useful to such as person as, say, accountability, responsibility, or vision.
Stewart is a joke. I think most people lauhed him off early thinking he is just crapping on everyone as a joke but the more influence he got was based on the more left he went. He wnet from trashing everyone to being just a another leftist on the air waves. That is when he turned into a newsman for the left, at least in their minds and his.
Gee, I'm thinking that YOU'RE not a stewart suck up. Riiiiight!
This is john stewart isn't it. I'd rather be a far right lemming then a memeber of the LOONY left.
Ummm, yes we should champion him just because one of his followers says so. Well all righty then, I have now decided to become a liberal and a stewart admirer. *chuckle chortle snort*
I accept that John Stewart is part of the greatest propaganda campaign in human history. But he remains amongst its least credible elements, and his audience is relatively small.
I accept that John Stewart is part of the greatest propaganda campaign in human history. But he remains amongst its least credible elements, and his audience is relatively small.
http://www.alistz.net
Dozens of 24 hour cable news networks…millions of websites…RSS Feeds and email updates on our mobile phones…reality TV in every shape and form on every topic under the sun…the worthless dung pile that is the blogosphere…
Could it be that we have become a culture so inundated with news and "real" information that we can not distinguish between news and entertainment? I don't say this to defend either side in this argument, but the last few posts have gotten me thinking.
"It would be about as useful to such as person as, say, accountability, responsibility, or vision. " This was the same argument that Hannity used in that interview years ago. He asked Stewart if he didn't think he had a responsibility to ask Kerry the tough questions during Stewarts interview with the Candidate. Stewart said "What, on my comedy show?" This guy ain't Edward R. Morrow, he's Schmucky the Clown.
"That is when he turned into a newsman for the left, at least in their minds and his." I don't think you can state that HE thinks he's a newsman, as he has repeatedly and vehemently said exactly the opposite. Of course, as jaded as we are with politicians saying the opposite of what they really believe, I can see where you might not buy his denials. But this brings up an interesting point: do a lot of people(stupid ones I might add) really thinks this is news? Have we become so indoctrinated by reality TV and information overload that we can not tell the difference between fact and fiction anymore? It is the later which scares me.
Mr. Gifford, you've presented a long and thought-out piece the disingenuous nature of Jon Stewart's sarcasm-as-reporting. How about doing as detailed an analysis of Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh?
Jon Stewart s a little coward who lives up the butt of Obama. A real man does not need old hand picked clips to attack someone. Jim Cramer a liberal critcizes Obama and little Jon Obama's butt boy attacks him.The little prick doesn't have the guts or intellect to debate someone face to face. Perhaps little Jon will end up like another coward named Tim Russert who currently is a rotting corpse
No. You don't get it. Obama attacked Santelli for his criticism. Bush didn't.
Ahahahahahaha.. hahaha.. hahaha! Ahahahahaha!
You know, you could rival Stewart! Except, of course, for the fact that your comedy is unintentional…
So what's the problem with this piece? Two things:
First, the 'missing of the point', which is the starting point of the article. Why do people laugh at Santelli? Well, it could be something like him being firstly critical, but then ending up being angry – really angry – about help to homeowners. Billions of dollars to failed banks makes him critical, millions to homeowners make him mad.. See the point? I guess not, it takes humoristic sense.
Second, and this is truly funny: 'but my recollection of Stewart’s vicious, cheap shots (another element of sarcasm) at Tucker Carlson’s expense when he tried to do a friendly interview of Stewart causes me to believe I’m spot on.'
What was that all about? Some may remember that 'Crossfire' had two hosts. Why does the second not get a mention? Perhaps because he is Paul Bealga… And Stewart's 'vicious, cheap shots'? He attacked the show for dumbing down the debate! Just as you are accusing him of, indirectly!
And you have the courage (or rather, the lack of brains) to call him 'intellecutally dishonest'.
You know, sometimes life supercedes art – in this case you supercede the comedians. If only that was your intent…
Ahahahahahaha!
Did you read this article? First it was CNBC, second Santelli was deriding all bailouts not just the one for home owners.
You seriously believe that "The Daily show" should have a disclaimer to say that it is for entertainment?!?! The freaking show is on COMEDY CENTRAL for god's sakes!!!
Where should the hate and anger be aimed when considering who screwed up with the bad or late calls? I say it is the credit rating agencies. Where is the ire for S&P, Moody's and Fitch.
Others I generally have a foul mood towards: Alan Greenspan, unscrupulous lenders, Dodd, Frank, Shumer, Geithner, Waxman.
And then the regular (in my opinion) thieves that populate the congress… Maxine Waters, Rangel… Murtha.
If ever there should be an uprising of the masses demanding term limits it should be NOW.
Sorry. I am in a mood.
I wonder at the distraction the comedians dwell on.
I think I will go hack away at some fruit trees and plant some onions. I may be actually depending on the harvest this year. I know what I will be doing with my rotten tomatoes.
That's the problem, you think you are in the same social bracket as these guys, your not and the average person is not. The biggest problem with people who defend the these types is that they are defending the few and naturally they believe they are a part of that elite or will be some day. You don't have to defend them regardless, but you feel you have to because unrealistically, you believe you belong to that social strata. The plain fact is you will never reach that strata with the wealth gap growing in this country. How stupid you look bemoaning tax increases on the rich, railing against keeping people in their mortgages, if anything that is the source of the problem given that the banks leveraged themselves on these loans; an average is loosing their ass in their mortgage now because of these foreclosures…I mean for Christ's sake, get in where you fit in! Talk about being unrealistic? Come on!
What would Stewart say to the networks on their responsbility to be remotely balanced in their "news" coverage of the new administration and all things political?
Would you suggest that Stewart's "so called humor" is accurate, fair and balanced? Why would anyone listen to a smirky little twerp comedian lecture anyone on responsibility?
I think we all know now what the kingfish thinks of us little taxpayers.
Boy, when CNBC leans in any direction but the one you like, you libs sure do blow a fuse.
What like "entertainer" Limbaugh? I see both sides hide behind the entertainment angel and it is BS. You still are a socialist by the way; just to varying degrees. The truth can hurt, be funny, and can be enlightening…that's what "entertainers" on both sides do! Adhering to any dogma is the path hypocrisy and inconsistency.
The article was kind of trite, as it made many claims but failed to in any way back them up with evidence. Everyone is entitled to their viewpoint but as a person who has actually SEEN the crossfire interview, the Daily Show, watches the news at LEAST 3 hours a day, and is actually, um, educated on what is being said here…this article is simply silly.
The comment section just makes me laugh. Tons of Republican Dittoheads who praise the Limbaugh/Beck/Hannity trinity of Conservatism for being 'fair and spot on' are upset that a Comedian is able to so effectively destroy their house of cards reasoning on so many issues. The economic collapse and the rights newfound INSISTANCE that it was somehow Dodd's, Franks, and Fannie/Freddies fault shows a simple basic lack of a) honesty and b) understanding as to the underlying causes of the crisis.
Fannie/Freddie were enablers, it is true, and Frank and Dodd are guilty imho of not doing what needed to be done and effectively challenge many of the financial shenanigans being perpetuated by the financial markets at the time is a FAR FAR Cry from causing the financial collapse.
But again, its hard to argue with folks whose sole counter argument is 'TROLL GO BACK TO HUFFPO YOU COMMIE DURRRRR I LIKE PIE'
"It's a grave error to assume that your opponent is dumb for disagreeing with you"
Except in your case I think.
What's hilarious about this post is that it accuses Stewart of being vitriolic and using verbal trickery to appeal to its viewer base, while the right-wing commentators like Limbaugh and Hannity and Levin do EXACTLY that, only on a much larger scale.
What disturbs you about Stewart is that (1) he uses facts, (2) he makes an incredible amount of sense, (3) he reaches a lot of people, and (4) he gunning against every hypocritical thing you stand for.
The government can solve this financial problem because, they are so good at solving their own financial problem? Did I get that right? Hmm, I have to sleep on that one.
Actually if you listened to his rant, he was critical of ALL of the govt actions. Me too!
As for you, what evidence do you see that gives you faith that the feds can actually solve ANY financial problem? Anyone, anyone?
Come on, we know that there are no intelligent young people. That is what liberals like to believe but we have no proof of their existence.
I know that I am not in the same bracket as those guys and I am very mad at the whole system: bad banks, greedy Wall Street types and bad government oversite. But, and this is a big but, I know my limitations and that is why I rent and when my tax dollars are going to keep a $700,00.00 house for a "Mariachi Band" member whose only income verification was a picture of him in his band costume….that gets me a little mad. THAT kind of thing was what made me appreciate what Santelli was saying.
Plus it is BS to say "you will never be in that social strata"….ever heard of the movie Pursuit of Happiness?
The only way anyone with the right combination of education and effort will not reach that strata as this country goes on is because the govenment won't let them, because we all have to be equal…..equally miserable.
And before I am accused of being a Republican Toadie….I don't think anyone should get a bailout…..banks, Wall Street firms, farms, auto makers…etc. No welfare…corporate or otherwise.
I am hard to catorgize though because I do believe in short term unemployment benefits, but of course that is paid by a fund that the "evil" businesses contribute to.
Rewriting history are you? FDR saved capitalism. I'm guessing you haven't read much history because if there was anything FDR was not that was an idealogue. After saving the banks which, btw, he did NOT nationalize he signed a bill to cut spending. Look it up.
On the money! Well written, Mr. Gifford. I'm of John Stewart's generation, and really enjoyed him in the early days. Once I realized that people started taking this comedy show as actual news, I was so freaked out I stopped watching. The country seems to have been taken over by self-aggrandized fools, literally. May God Have Mercy on us.
[...] comedy writers than Cramer, or somethin’. A less slanted story is on Yahoo. Big Hollywood has a piece on Stewart’s not-unrelated feud with Rick [...]
Santelli was bashed because he is more conservative. I can only guess that Cramer got zinged for falling out of line. Where was Stewarts outrage ONE YEAR AGO when this happened? How about when he screwed up the recommend on Google? Not a freaking peep from the left. Thins are different now that he has voiced concern over Obama's plan. JUST LIKE Santelli. One word of dismay over the Obamaplan and off at the knees.
I see a lot of people dismissing Jon Stewart as an idiot. Just because you do not agree with him does not make him stupid. He is very talented at what he does. Cramer allowed himself to be his punching bag. That lowers my already barely registering esteem of Cramer.
Re trading on the advice of TV people. What the heck is wrong with you? Even Cramer tells you to do your own homework. People are lazy. FYI, even if you took his advice, it is too old to be "valuable". He puts out a fee newsletter with his recommendations before the show's airing. Stocks do move on his advice… mostly before show time.
Now, Fast Money. Love that show. Do I trade on their advice? No.
As someone who has worked with developmentally disabled populations for more than 20 years, I think that you are confusing 'stupid' with several arcane technical terms which have long been discarded becasue they've taken on perjorative meanings: 'idiot', 'moron', 'cretin', and 'imbecile' come from French clinical language.
'Stupid' has long had the connotation of being dumb on purpose. However, I do admit to emphasizing a distinction between 'dumb' and 'stupid', because such a distinction is critical to defining the rhetorical character of what passes for contemporary liberal thought.
[...] Hey, try an alternative view of Jon "Pander to Libs" Stewart here. [...]
yeah, though not as good… this bunch makes one long for Billy C- almost!
[...] Hey, try an alternative view of Jon "Pander to Libs" Stewart here. One of the choicer bits is this: [...]
there are decent, hard working liberals like your dad- just not enough of them…
good luck with your search, and may you bring the light of day upon it…
Engineer,
With respect, did yiou read Gifford's post. It only matters that what is said makes a liberals' point. Whether it is true or not is of little consequence. Any thing that agrees with critical thinking is logical, anyting that disagrees with critical thinking is not. Four legs good, two legs better………
This is why Libertarian here thinks that by just repeating Stewart's lie he can validate its faux veracity by the mere force of repetition.
Unfortunately this tactic falls apart when commen sense is applied.
These people in your list are no longer comedians. They are now "Progressive Pundits". By "Pundit" I mean that fortunate and elite of Plato's Chosen annointed by the Mainstream Media Governmental Complex as the final arbiters of every decision we make which effects our lives. You see obviously I am so stupid that I should look to the guy that makes "fart" jokes on SNL to determine all my major life choices.
Why have you not had this realization yet Bev. Have you been playing hookey from the reeducation camp, comrade. Better watch out I hear the Big O's truant officers are real bruisers.
Yes Movie Bob you are spot on. Gifford's only complaint is that John Liebowitz aka Stewart is really good at being snarky to impress adolescents.
Gifford is in no way concerned with the fact that what Stewart says is a Lie. I am confident he will concur.
For reference to the Liebowitz line I refer you to http://www.MarkLevinshow.com
Why don't you try CSPAN. How about in 2006 when the regulators came to say there was a problem whith Fannie Mae because they were undercapitalized. There you will see all the Bush supporters you are talking about deeriding regulation.
You know like Chis Dodd and Barney Frank, Maxine Waters and other members of the Black Congressional Congress. These are all terrible Neocons becuase the deride regulation.
Is it cold under the bridge where you live., Is that what makes you so bitter. There, there!
I am sorry did you not understand the argument. The argument is that Cramer is a hipocrit for being critical of homeowner bailouts and not corporate bailouts even though he was in fact critical of both. In commen sense land we call this a "Lie". I did not find one thing in your entire discourse that addressed this point.
As For the homeowner bailouts they are infact worse. The banks were forced to take the corporate bailout by the Secretary of Treasury and worse than that the banking oligopoly was made less competitve by the government encouraging larger banks to gobble up troubled ones regardless of the business merirs of the merger. In response the Big O is now going to approve their pay.
The homeowners are people with NINja loans (No Income No Job No Assets) and others with houses that have pools and second mortgages who have no business getting my money. In commen sense land we call this "Crooked". I understand though that terms like "Liar" and "Crook" are just too simple for you elite Plato's Chosen to Understand so I don't have any strong opinions on the subject.
Again look at the leftist try to support his argument.
He does not give one error that the "far right" has made. He just tells us how no else "buys" into it. This would never get past the debate coach at a high school debate club.
Unfortuantely "Wake Up Please" is still asleep.
Why?
Are the people over there at Huffpo not up to the job?
Just curious……
In the interest of fairness let's say that anyone who takes a government bailout to pa for their failed mortage has his salary limited to $35,000 or 1/4th what he makes now whichever is lower. The average CEO make 2 million and is limited to half a million becuase his company takes bailouts.
What this ………. I hear the crickets chirping in the halls of the "intellectualy correct" members of Stewarts studio audience.
See sometimes Comme Sese supercedes propaganda.
Again we see the merit of liberal arguments… Geez this is too easy.
The article is trite because the Daily Show watches three hours of news. Get that the show watches. I digress. Not one mention of why the article is trite other than it disagrees with their thought processes.
Fannie/Freddie fault for the collapse is dishonest and lakcing of understanding when in reality it must be "financial shenaningans". Ok well then what are they. We get no hint.
I backed up what I said with the actual words of these people on CSPAN in 2006 who were angry and pissed off that the regulators and REpublicans were evil racists out to hurt the poor becasue they wanted to slow down the gravy train of bad loans. from 2005 to 2008 Fannie Mae executed more of this loan than since its inception.
But I guess I am missing that special elegance that allows Plato's Chosen to be right without ever having to answer any questioning of their arguments. How fortunate they must be………..,
Try explaining your point instead of assuming it is correct if you want to influence anyone at this site.
The problem I have with Stewart is the all too obvious politicized timing of Cramer's comeuppance. He is being attacked for bringing Obama to task for literally ignoring the DOW and using the bully pulpit to exacerbate the problem. This to my estimation was an honest response to what the President is doing.
So now he goes on Stewart's show to be brought to task for making stock reccomendations that did not come true. Ever talk to any financial advisor. The dsclaimer at the bottom is "PAst performance is not necessariy and indicator of future results". Wjhat every financial advisor does is to give people informed analysis of where the market may be going. It is your choice to follow.
It is Stewart that can't take it. How much do you want to bet that the liberals at NBC forced Cramer to go on the show and not defend himself. The whole thing is a theater puppet show and to me is therefore meaningless propaganda.
Jon Stewart – the new Obama butt-boy
Well said……..what a sticky wicket we find ourselves in. I see your point about the amendment but our luck, theunintended consequences would serve to increase the power of the executive branch. Australia anyone? Just kidding.
"One now is common with ignorance that can be corrected through education. The other is now avocation of a position despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary"
I'd like for someone to point to a dictionary that defines the words as such. I've certainly not encountered that distinction in my day to day life.
- "I think that you are confusing 'stupid' with several arcane technical terms which have long been discarded becasue they've taken on perjorative meanings: 'idiot', 'moron', 'cretin', and 'imbecile' come from French clinical language."
I was under the impression that "stupid" was one of those words, like "moron" and "imbecile," that used to be used to mark levels of mental retardation. It might be, I'm not sure. Anyway, I know for a fact that "stupid" long predates modern clinical diagnoses of retardation. I think it dates back to the 16th century. Without checking, I can be fairly certain "moron" and "idiot" are equally old. The point is, they were all chosen to describe various levels of mental infirmity because they were all synonyms in the first place (for we like to have many words with which to call people stupid).
Omega Man
This is the problem. The first bailout was inevitable no matter what we did becuase the problem was the government's fault. We (the government and God how I wish I were not involved) backed the mortgages of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. We told investors in these subsiidaries (a lot of them foreigners) that the investment was "safe" becuase Uncle Sugar backed it.
The problem is that instead of doing the simple thing W actually said which was buy the mortgages that fail and have the government hold them until they can be sold we got the "political" answer from congress. Around page 20 the first instructional point of that bill it states the "Secretary of the Treasury shall have whatever authority he deems necessary to solve this crises. We know have no idea WHAT that money was spent on. When Congress finally got their guy in the answer was to just keep repeating the first blunder.
If you don't like this you need an ammedment to the Constitution to REMOVE this power from Congress. There is no other answer.
My favorite is Obama's campaign Manager Franklyn Reynes who changed the bonus scheme at Fannie Mae to be based on the quantity of underpriviledged loans executed. He got 100 million in six years making Ken Lay seem like an amateur corporate fleecer in comparison. He actually stated: "These instruments (financial mortgages) are essentially riskless because they are supported by real assets"
Yep MODDEM you are brilliant! (at political obfuscation that is) Face it Obama owns this mess. He supported the policy that caused it in the Senate. He took 121,000 in campaign contributions from Fannie Mae and made his money helping Resco put people in mortgages that they could not pay. He got involved in telling Bush what to do before he was even out of office and in seven weeks brought the DOW down from 10000 to 6000. His actions as President are the only explanation
Just curious……
In the interest of fairness let's say that anyone who takes a government bailout to pay for their failed mortage has his salary limited to $35,000 or 1/4th what he makes now whichever is lower. The average CEO make 2 million and is limited to half a million becuase his company takes bailouts.
What's this ………. I hear the crickets chirping in the halls of the "intellectualy correct" members of Stewarts studio audience.
See sometimes Commen Sense supercedes propaganda.
Thanks for holding onto the log, it would have been cramped on the boat…
Swim, baby, swim!
Thanks, Andrew. I read both FH and AS back in my schooling days, and being as I am 42, well 43, come Monday, I don't remember having troube following them, or the plos. I like FH better than AS back in the day, but who knows, now. I need to re-read, desperately.
[...] Stewart, Santelli, and Sarcasm – Big Hollywood, Thursday, March 12, 2009 Analysis of Jon Stewart’s rhetoric in last week’s Rick Santelli/CNBC rant. [...]
[...] A week ago, I took issue with the way Jon Stewart took a cheap shot on his “Daily Show” at CNBC’s Rick Santelli. Today, I have limited praise for Stewart’s skewering of CNBC’s “Mad Money” guru, Jim Cramer. If that seems inconsistent or hypocritical (oh gawd, not that), it isn’t. The difference is that when Stewart blasted Santelli, he blasted a straw man of his own making. Santelli did not say what Stewart led his audience to believe he said in order to set up his put-down of Santelli. I did not comment on Stewart’s general tear down of CNBC that followed his Santelli snark because I did not know whether Stewart had taken the video clips he made fun of out of context and still don’t. After that, Cramer went on the Daily Show for national humiliation by a Stewart who demanded to know why Cramer didn’t warn people to sell their stocks. “It’s not a fucking game,” Stewart postured. Cramer could have challenged that and Stewart’s other crock but didn’t. [...]
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