I Didn’t Quit Drinking to Get High On Hope and Change
by Charles WinecoffWith the holidays fast approaching, I thought it might be a good time to jot down some thoughts on drinking. Or, more specifically, not drinking – booze or Kool Aid.
Recently, I celebrated my eighth year of sobriety. I have 9/11 to thank for that; it was shortly after the attacks that I began attending meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous with regularity. I’d been to AA once before, at 25, when a DUI arrest landed me in “the rooms.” But at the time, I still had 15+ years of drinking to get out of my system, plus a mid-life crisis to go through that sent me flying out to La-La Land (which is where I was when the towers fell back in my home town).

I’m proud I haven’t had a drink since 2001. After spending decades trying to flee my “issues” like an adolescent hamster on an existential wheel, the fog gradually lifted from my brain and I stopped running.
They say when you drink, you stop growing emotionally, that you’re almost in a state of suspended animation – normal on the outside, stunted on the inside. Sobriety gets the spiritual gears moving again. Suddenly, years of pent-up, delayed maturation caught up with me – real fast.
For the first time in my life, I began to think clearly, regardless of the circumstance. I copped to the fact I hadn’t been twenty-something in quite a while, that I had frightening familial responsibilities coming down the pike (a sick parent), and I learned how to pray (which, BTW, works).
I also stopped voting Democrat. As it says in the Big Book, “we reject fantasizing and accept reality.”
The fellowship of AA provided consistency, and even some reassuring laughs. But it also required some eye-opening. The sad truth is that there is no such thing as a totally safe haven – and that includes AA meetings. At least in LA, anyway.
AA meetings are supposed to be little Shangri-Las of partisan immunity,where principles trump personalities, and “outside issues,” such as politics, are verboten. But for years after 9/11, in meetings all over the west side of Los Angeles - and particularly in the gay mecca of West Hollywood - Bush-bashing and anti-war screeds from the podium were so common, they almost seemed like one of the Twelve Steps.
Call me naive, but I was shocked when one fellow alcoholic, in the midst of sharing his story before a crowd of maybe 100 (including some very shaky newcomers), actually implied that anyone who didn’t vote for John Kerry in the then-upcoming 2004 election didn’t deserve compassion. Sure, ”George W” was also in recovery – but he was nothing but a dangerous “dry drunk.” (Similarly, in group therapy a couple years later, our otherwise unbiased shrink ringleader recommended we all read Bush’s Brain.)
And so it was revealed to me that bigotry against conservatives is color blind, knows no creed, and has no shame. That was during what I now refer to as the tongue-biting years.

At the same time, I also began to notice a strange contradiction occurring among my enlightened fellow booze-hounds. Since Republican-smearing was de rigeur, never an “outside issue” – and even fiscal conservatives were invariably mocked as religious fanatics - I would have assumed that the Christian tenets of the AA program would get slammed as well. Yet nobody blinked – not even when their sponsors nudged them to get with the program and chime in for the Lord’s Prayer.
To quote Madge the manicurist from the classic Palmolive TV commercials: You’re soaking in it!
Somehow, the notion of getting on your knees – to pray, of all things - got a free pass from the AAs I knew (despite the fact there there was plenty of un-serene venom directed at Catholics, and Christians in general, in their own personal accounts of ”what it was like”). Did not these clever, recovering boys and girls recognize that AA was encouraging them to do exactly what they had rejected in their own (often Republican) families – i.e. to turn their will over something bigger than themselves, and trust in God?
Remarkably, they just kept praying – and Bush-bashing. We were all reassured that our individual “Higher Powers” could be anything, even a door knob, if that was easier for some of us to swallow than, say, Jesus. So Hollywood AA turned out to be a bizarre mix of angry “progressive” politics and old-time religion – a cult-like “happening” of mass cognitive dissonance.
This may come as a surprise to some lefty lushes (and possibly our current President), but Alcoholics Anonymous was not founded by a Muslim (though there are plenty of Muslims in recovery). Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but AA founder, Bill Wilson, was not only an icky white male, and a God-respecting Christian, he was also - hold on to your seats - a lifelong political conservative. Talk about a triple threat.
Yes, if Bill Wilson were around today, he’d probably be a “tea bagger” (the same way JFK would be a right-wing war-mongerer). We know for sure that he opposed the stimulus bill of his day (FDR’s much-vaunted New Deal) and that he modelled AA on the teachings of an evangelical Christian movement known as the Oxford Group. Why doesn’t that surprise me?
In 1938, a fateful year not unlike 2009, Oxford Group founder, pastor Frank Buchman, declared the time had come for national “Moral Re-Armament.” Now remember, Buchman could be considered the granddaddy of Alcoholics Anonymous. And normally, his brand of militaristic rhetoric would be enough to make most West Hollywood gays run screaming in the opposite direction (that, or publish names and home addresses of his disciples on the Internet). Here’s a sampling:
* “The only sane people in an insane world are those controlled by God.”
* “The true patriot gives his life to bring his nation under God’s control. Those people who oppose that control are public enemies…”
* “God-controlled supernationalism seems to be the only sure foundation for world peace!”
* “A dynamic experience of God’s free spirit is the answer to regional antagonism, economic depression, racial conflict and international strife.”
* “The true patriot gives his life to bring about his country’s resurrection.”
Makes Rick Warren look pretty good, doesn’t it?
Bill Wilson handpicked aspects of Buchman’s theories – such as “Lives must be changed if problems are to be solved” – and tweaked them to reflect his own firm belief that the only way to stay sober was through having a spiritual experience. And the most foolproof way to have a spiritual experience? Regular prayer, on your knees, expressing gratitude, whether you mean it or not. In other words: no-frills “Christianist” behavior modification.

Despite his unapologetic faith, which many urbanites today equate with mental illness – unless the religion is Islam, of course, in which case it’s just healthy multiculturalism - Wilson was far from the closed-minded, violent bigots that Christians are usually stereotyped as on stage, screen, and in casual conversation. Aside from drinking, Wilson cheated on his wife (probably), dabbled in LSD therapy, and even turned to the supernatural for answers in his never-ending quest for freedom from addiction.
But no matter what crazy detours he took, “Bill W” never took his eye off the ultimate goal: eagle-eyed sobriety. He knew he was just a sinner among sinners.
The Christians I’ve met have impressed me with their grace in the face of adversity, their quiet combination of humility and hope (minus the audacity). Maybe I’ve just met the best of the best, but from what I’ve seen, they don’t even expect God - and certainly not Big Brother - to take care of their problems for them. They understand it’s a two-way street.
Bill W was such a Christian: an honest man who faced his demons, shared his struggle, used his brain, and brought renewed life to millions of people of all nationalities, creeds, and colors. (And no, he didn’t believe black people should be slaves.)
If there is a lesson in this, it’s that – contrary to popular mythology - liberalism is not responsible for all the good works in the world. Individuals are. And thankfully, Alcoholics Anonymous is one altruistic miracle the Left will never be able to take credit for (as it too often does).
I didn’t get sober to continue living in a dreamworld of perpetual denial and fantasy, the way I did for most of my life. Being a drunk is a lot like being a liberal – and I was both – always hiding from reality, making childish excuses, blaming other people for my shortcomings. But with time, and patience, my Higher Power revealed to me something unexpected: the common-sense sunshine of the conservative spirit.
Sobriety, if not AA, finally gave me the freedom to think for myself, and to speak without constraint – a liberty which is increasingly under attack these days, in ways both vast and insidious. That’s a freedom I won’t give up easily. It took me too long to discover it.
Some battles you’re born into, others you choose. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.





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94 Comments
I salute your continuing sobriety and wish you the best in the future. I have known family members who have fought this addiction and have some understanding of how difficult it can be. As for partisanship in A.A., that is a shame. Democrats have never seemed to abide by normal rules of civility though so I am not surprised.
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interesting that Bush although in their same boat was not really recovered. It is interesting how people will attack who have walked the path.
My Brother has animice towards Lance Armstrong for being abby about his cancer, he had the same type.
Often we want people to see the wisdom of our ways but then when they convert, we rail on them for not having done it soon enough.
I suppose it is human nature and some sort of defense mechanism.
Congrats on your sobriety and may you stay stong.
27 years on Nov 8th…
Good article and true as it can be.
I don't think I'd have made it in LA.
(Of couse God put me where I would)…
Keep going!
One day at a time, brother. I have 51/2 years in myself. Life ain't grand, as I am unemployed and lost most of my material possesions, but it's a heck of lot better to be sober. I have had similar experiences with some members that were somewhat similar to you, however not as extreme as you described. And it has been my experiance that the people most angry and bitter, who don't follow the 12-step program to rigorously end up going back out. Regardless of whether I agreed with them politically or not I still feel bad when they do and pray that they come back.
Peace, Charles
I don't know how I would handle trying to sober up in LA either! Congrats on the 27 years; keep up the good work!!
Congratulations on your many years of sobriety Charles. You're one of the few who recognizes the problem and works at fixing it.
Excellent article as always.
Thank you for your testimony. You carry an extra burden that many of us will never know. You will be in my prayers tonight. Stay strong!
Good for you, Charles. I've seen too many people die from the drink. Stay forever strong, and don't worry about step 12. I think you have to transform into pure energy to pass that one. jk
I really needed to read this one this morning. Thanks Charles.
You must have drunk some of the Kool-Aid if you think Kennedy would be a conservative. We don't leave our friends stranded without aircover at the Bay of Pigs in Cuba. Otherwise, congrats on your continued victory over demon rum.
The current political landscape and this article brings to mind the line from the movie Airplane, "I picked a bad time to quit heroin". No offence to NA steppers, but saturday's vote and Byrd only shows a need, tabula rasa anyone?
Thank You for your post. It is a shame that some people will violate the tenants of AA just to score political points. Keep the faith brother and keep thinking for your self. Conservatism does not hold all the answers, just as Liberalism is not 100% bad, but a strong faith will help you find most of them.
What Charles meant was that, compared to TODAY'S Democrats, JFK would be considered (by Liberals/Democrats/Marxists/Socialists) to be a conservative and a war-monger.
There was a great article here a few months back about liberalism and how it appeals to those with marijuana abuse issues. MJ abusers never seem to have their own money and always need to sponge off other people. They always think their "highdeas" are brilliant. They have little ambition to achieve things on their own. They have arrested or delayed development.
Liberalism truly is a mental disorder.
Indeed Charles. Thanks for sharing your personal struggle. Not to the mention having to battle your demons, with the added drama of LA, where BDS is still a requirement. Sadly, If there ever was a challenge to sobriety, it is the added pressure of today's weird political climate. Maybe this whole agenda is a conspriracy by Nancy to sell more Pelosi wine? Or Barney to sell more of his boyfriends weed? Or Harry to sell more swampland to the Eskimo's? Regardless of nefarious pressures and lunatic agendaes, stay strong. Thanks again.
Another home run hit out of the park Charles!!
Great, great piece. I didn’t quit drinking so much as agnosticism when I entered the Catholic Church a few months before 9/11 (following that earlier Oxford Movement leader John Henry Newman). But it was also sobriety, a new intellectual clarity, looking around and suddenly seeing the haze of thoughtless groupthink that dominates the west side of L.A..
I left L.A. last year so my mother could die at home instead of a nursing home. Thanks for bringing it back to me so vividly. You make me pine for my somewhat delusional friends, but more so for the small circle who refuse to back down. Can’t wait to return to the fight.
I admire you more and more with each article you write, Mr. Winecoff. God bless you (and all of those struggling with alcoholism)!!
I don't know if any actual studies have been done, but I would be willing to bet that a majority of addicts are liberals. The people I know who openly drink to excess or use drugs are very vocal about making sure others are "non-judgmental." Because God forbid anyone should criticize their alcohol or drug abuse. And, of course, the popular image of conservatives is that they are very judgmental because conservatives believe in personal responsibility for one's actions.
Perhaps one reason why addiction rehab programs have such a dismal success rate is because liberals have such a hard time turning themselves over to God. Most of the libs I know think they ARE God.
They say when you
drinkare a liberal, you stop growing emotionally, that you’re almost in a state of suspended animation – normal on the outside, stunted on the inside.There, I fixed it for you.
12 years on Nov 8th
I live in NJ and have found that the politics stay outside the door. Just bearly though.
Having lived here all my life and being a conservative the debate is always lively.
No matter what their views(usually not mine) people have helped stay clean.
Thank God and the rooms
A good article, with good points, but like most of my recovering friends we work hard at observing the 12 Traditions of AA, and Tradition 11 talks about our need to be anonymous at the level of press, radio, and films.
This a classic example of breaking our anonimity.
I've got 23 years. Live in Portland and have seen politics creep or barge through the door in AA meetings. It's poison. I regret this article having been put up.
BroCharles: After losing my job and family, I too got sober in Hollywood California. As I ran those streets of fire, the Good LORD allowed me to see the paradox of Good and Evil as it now exists in every living Soul. I had to make a choice. In Hollywood of all places I began learning the supernatural facts of what it means to be alive. It is the work of a lifetime! Hang in there BroCharles. Thank you for your strong Testimony.
22 Years, The Fellowship is great!
AA didn't teach me how to stop drinking, it showed me how to live so I didn't have to drink!
Gymweir
Saddened to hear tradition 10 is frequently allowed to be runaround as this leads to a most dangerous dis-unity covered in tradition 1. 10 years sober on 9/4. Dude when you can get outta LA and to some meetings down here in Texas or maybe the mid-west in Dr.Bob country where things are basic and political pontificating verboten….AA is self cleansing….which means demagogues don't pull much weight and generally don't stick around since it is a simple program of rigorous honesty & ego deflation at depth. We all trudge….
He didn't break yours, or anyone else's. He broke his, which he has every right to do.
Great article Charles.
lol
: ) Well put….
bout time a recovering conservative said this. i coulda written this post ten times. try getting and staying clean in DETROIT 2009?!!
im in NA and went to a sponsorship retreat where one of the original writers of the basic text appeared and before he could get off the stage had to treat us to a denunciation of the attempted liberation of south viet nam.
yes, it is very difficult to stay focussed on my staying clean with that mess around.
gals you mentioned W's recovery, funny how no one contrasts that to Boy Crimptons obvious untreated addictions. whatever…
Even though we believe alcohol is a drug, I still commend on sharing this and wish you all the best as there IS but one ultimate authority and he's smiling one your recovery today. Thad L 6mos
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Charles,
Thank you so much for your posting. I dealt with the exact same at meetings in NYC. Both the 2004 and 2008 elections, and everything in between, brought out the worst in the liberal AAers of NYC. It became to much for me. Even though there were thousands of meetings a week to choose from, there was no one place I could go and not feel violated for my beliefs as a Republican (never once shared in a meeting) and God. It was amazing to me that even in AA God became a four letter word.
The intolerance of my beliefs destroyed what had been a sanctuary for me.
I am happy to say I recently moved to Virginia where my beliefs are not assaulted on a nightly basis (though I am in Northern VA which means my beliefs are still assaulted, just not nightly)… however, unfortunately my dealings in New York have scarred my feelings toward AA beyond repair. I attend much less, which is more than I was doing in NYC toward the end of my stay. I read the big book and other literature daily and keep in regular contact with the amazing people that saved my life when I first got sober… but I will never attend AA meetings in any regular fashion again.
Excellent article, Charles. Thank you. I wish you continued good health in sobriety and success in your life.
One day at a time.
You obviously have no concept of the traditions. He is not breaking anyone else's anonymity. Read the big book where it states you can choose to tell others or not. Do you mean to say that Bill Wilson violated the traditions when he allowed the Saturday Evening Post article? What about Time magazine?
Where was your anonymity broken by Charles?
Are you not breaking your anonymity with your post right now? or does your screen name preserve it?
I've often wondered what the left would look like today had the Kennedy brothers had not been assassinated.
I can't see either of them allowing the political party they lead to morph into the mess it currently is.
I would think JFK would have kept them closer to the political center, and I don't see their leadership as allowing the anti-war, radical hippies take over.
Liberalism truly is a mental disorder. </>
Insightful. Liberalism is the lack of mental order.
Excellent essay, and a most compelling story. Congratulations on finding your path out of both swamps, alcoholism and modern liberalism.
God bless you, Mr. Winecoff. May you have many more years of sobriety.
Thank you Charles,
The Twelve Steps and Traditions come through in every word you write. I will keep those LA brothers and sisters who continue to externalize their problems to scapegoats like the eeeeeevilll George W. Bush in my prayers, that they will re-examine the tradition about leaving politics at the door.
As long as they insist on dragging in political and religious prejudices, they will never expose the realities at the core of their illness, and positive recovery will be impossible.
That's one of the top three article titles I've ever seen here. (And a good read, too.)
Even though I have never struggled with drugs or alcohol (There but the grace of God go I) , with every post you put up, you have proven to be a hero who is willing to let his mind wander beyond the WeHo mental ghetto that it seems most LBGT live in.
You are awesome, strong, and make me wish you were bisexual.(just kidding on the last one. ;-> )
*MissQuinn*
For something that's a disease, don't ever, ever mention medical treatments like naltrexone. You are then a heretic, and will be burned at the stake. AA is a religion, don't let anyone fool you.
I've rarely touched booze and never touched drugs, but I've had my mental health demons. You're weak and powerless already, but it takes AA or therapy to really get you to realize it.
One day at a time. And those demons come every day reminding you where you have been.
"to speak without constraint"
That comes with a pretty hefty price tag Charles. Lethal if you are somewhere in between Silver Lake and PCH. But it beats 'lip biting' and ass kissing 8 days a week….ESPECIALLY if the ass to be kissed is LA hyper-liberal.
Addiction is a disease. AA is a place full of sick people in all stages of recovery. Don't be surprised if some of them act or speak insanely. If you feel the meetings you are going to aren't for you find another, more conservative one. LA has more meetings than just about any other city on the planet. Or maybe you would like a little cheese with that wine
Great article. I could not agree with it more. Twice hospitalized, I've been dry for over 3 years now, having in the past been dry for over 10. Lesson – vigilance must be maintained day in, day out. However you come by your inner resolve, nurture it. Without it you are dead.
[...] I Didn’t Quit Drinking to Get High On Hope and Change Well I still drink and smoke, (Tobacco) but I’ve never bought into idolatry, booty kissing, or mindless catch phrases. [...]
Wonderful piece, Charles, in every way. I salute your journey to sobriety from booze and wishful thinking. The work of seeing and turning away from our depravity never ends. I'm with you. God bless.
As an agnostic, I believe in God but choose not to trust what any man tells me about God, I can fully understand why turning yourself over to God is an important part of recovery.
Christ taught man to seek strength within himself through following Christ. All the prophets of our God, including Muhammad, taught that inner strength should be sought through God.
Our welfare system is all wrong too. Instead of handing out tuna we need to be making fishermen.
I know some rather successful LBG conservatives.
No no transgenders, they creep me out a little too much, but it seems to be a matter of whether or not you choose to earn your own way that determines your political compass.
That whole "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" business wouldn't sit well with today's Democrats. I mean, it sounds like JFK is promoting personal responsibility.
Agreed. In my opinion Kennedy would have set to the right of George Bush. The lefties would never tolerate that kind of talk today.
Which is why I wonder what would have happened had he not been assassinated. (I don't say survived, because he'd have probably spent the rest of his life in a wheel chair, probably with massive brain damage.
What would have happened had he held the reigns of the democratic party for another 6 years, and then held the power in the party behind the scenes? The kind of people who inhabit the left these days would never have obtained the power they have today.
Nicely written. I have beena recovered alcoholic in the fellowship for 24 years and a "recovered Democrat" for 22 years. I shudder to think about what would have happened to AA if the government if it had fallen under government control.
The ironic thing is that my career took me to Bahrain for a year earlier this decade. Islam poses no obstacle for practicing the 12 steps; those Muslims who work the steps stay sober and those who do not do so inevitably get drunk.
For each of you that are recovered or recovering I wish each and everyone of you guys the best.
I find it rather hilarious that liberalism and addiction really do share many of the same traits.
Better yet, the whole liberal hatred of firearms is based solely on that denial.
I found a pretty good essay about it.
http://teppojutsu.com/sheepdog.htm
Well so what if it is. It's saved lives, and so has religion.
Be reassured by this, mon ami — you've been sober since seven months after I was born.
Inner strength? Amen. God helps those who help themselves.
Insightful! But I'm not too surprised about anything they might do in a West Hollywood AA meeting. Far left liberals are some of the most angry, obtuse bigots in America today. They almost make the 1950's KKK look friendly and compassionate in comparison.
Charles,
Congratulations on your overcoming alcoholism. I'd like to recommend Exodus International to you so that you may overcome your same sex attraction and live a more Christ like life.
Your brother in Christ,
Ted H. from Colorado
God Bless Charles…
SHAME, SHAME, SHAME ON YOU, Charles, for breaking the most important tradition of AA, ANONYMITY, to wit, "we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films." Or, from the long form of Tradition 11: "Our relations with the general public should be characterized by personal anonymity…Our names and pictures as A.A. members ought not be broadcast, filmed, or publicly printed. Our public relations should be guided by the principle of attraction rather than promotion. There is never need to praise ourselves. We feel it better to let our friends recommend us." What is the reasoning behind this? Tradition 12 sums it up: "Alcoholics Anonymous believe[s] that the principle of anonymity has an immense spiritual significance. It reminds us that we are to place principles before personalities; that we are to actually to practice a genuine humility." I may be among the minority here, but it saddens me to see such a trampling of principles that have been in place for so long.
/sober 14 years
//completely anonymous post, of course
"… a cult-like “happening” of mass cognitive dissonance." So…THAT'S what the '70's were! Man, I thought it sounded familiar….. lol.
Thank you for that, Charles. Spot on, as always.
To all of us who know you — and read you — you are a blessing to all of us.
I've got 24 years, and it is only in the recent past that I have seen the anti-Bush venom and the Catholic bashing that you write about. I have seen it too, and it is very troubling. I am certainly glad Ididnt witness this when I was first getting sober.
What's going on?
I normally post here with full name and website, but for obvious reasons I wish to be anonymous.
I'm 33 years sober and I might well agree strongly with the position taken by the author, as far as subject matter goes. However, I strenuously disagree with this blatant violation of our tradition of anonymity.
Signed: ANONYMOUS!
I think things are different in LA…or so I hear….( Our name ought never to be drawn into public controversy….etc….) Just sayin'
charles-
I read everything that you post, and look forward to reading many more excellent essays. Thank you for sharing your insights.
24 years. Got sober in Texas and moved to Los Angeles after 19 years. Good grief, what a change. People in meetings just assume everyone is a liberal who hates Bush and Bill O'Reilly. It was a bit of a shocker, but I moved from a Red State to a Blue State so I shouldn't be that surprised.
But your observation is right on the money: they embrace the AA principles and customs because they are taught to do so… just as they hate Republicans because they are taught to do so. In my conversations out here, if I bring up a topic, and I don't attach it to politics, most everyone agrees and takes the conservative position. Great column, it made me really think about the last 5 year years in L.A. A.A.
Really proves their weakness of mind when you think about it. If you can cause them to subvert their own beliefs without their knowledge, they clearly have never thought about their ideals.
He'll go to Exodus when you give up shellfish sinner.
(I'm late, I know, but…) It's been said throughout the comments, Charles – my admiration for you grows with each new post.
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Fight the good fight, Dan. The demons are liars. They only come to tear down and obstruct and ruin. Your victory is already won, though, in John 8:32.
Be blessed.
There's room for you, too. They'll also help you with that raging ignorance you've just demonstrated.
You just hate Christians.
Congratulations on your many years of sobriety. Although I tend to agree with you on many points, the problem I have is that what you did is in direct violation of the 10th and 11th tradition, as well. The traditions are to the group, as the steps are to the individual.
Regardless of what we (as individuals) feel about outside issues, we owe it to the group to make sure that we adhere to the traditions so that AA doesn't get diverted (and diluted) from its primary purpose and give the guy behind us the same chance at recovery.
Tradition Eleven: "Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films."
Since the Traditions were first written in 1946, most of us agree that new media (television, blogs) fit right in there with press, radio and films.
I always follow Dr. Bob's lead and identify myself in meetings by first and last name, and feel free to identify myself as an AA member to other individuals when I think it can help me to be of service. I think that Tradition Eleven calls me to draw the line somewhere, for the good of AA as a whole. Of course, it's up to Charles W. and his home group to check the group conscience about this particular article.
" (despite the fact there there was plenty of un-serene venom directed at Catholics, and Christians in general, in their own personal accounts of ”what it was like”).
I always thought it was funny, in a sad way, when people shared about their using past and how they were complete destructive axxholes to everyone and anybody who crossed their paths. And yet they would lament about "the Nuns!" or "Catholic upbringing" as if they were victims of these “vile people and institutions“. I actually asked a guy "hey, did you ever think that the Nuns has every right to kick your axx because, as you said, you were a complete using, destructive axxhole who endangered the lives of innocents around you?" He actually agreed with me! I don't normally take someone's inventory…oh hell..just sometimes. I just try not to do it as a habit. Thanks for sharing Charles. Sobriety has been a gift that I thank God for everyday. He helped me to work hard for it and to believe it was possible.
For those still whining about the traditions…you may want to research the meaning behind the 10th and 11th. The 10th clearly states that AA as a whole, should not publicly take sides with a controversial issues. Charles was merely pointing out how this very tradition has been lost within many of the AA meeting rooms, especially in the LA area. The 11th tradition speaks to promotion based on using the AA name to encourage membership. I don't recall anywhere in this article where Charles tries to entice potential sober wanna-be's to come to the land of AA because he blogs for Big Hollywood. This article isn't an AA recruitment tool. It's an honest account of someone's observations. Names of other's were not given…so chillax.
I'm one of those "still whining about the traditions". I don't need to "research the meaning behind the 10th and 11th". I just read them. Try it. It's easy.
In 33 years of sobriety in Alcoholics Anonymous I've been a monarchist and pro-life conservative, so there's no bias here against Charles' actual politics. And I say to him:
Think seriously about removing this post.
"read them"..I have and stand by my comments. No one said anything about bias against Charles' politics. You're unfortunately missing the point of the post. Charles’s illustrates the LACK of adherence to the 10th tradition within the halls of AA, particularly in the LA area. He doesn't come out and say "they're not complying with the 10th tradition", however anyone with any understanding of this tradition can spot this observation. Instead of pointing the finger at Charles, perhaps take a look at a problem that is real in certain parts of the country within the rooms of AA. I'm lucky to be in a part of the country where I know I won't be bombarded during a meeting with anti-Bush, conservative sentiments. I feel sorry for the suffering soul who is exposed to bllsht within meetings like Charles posted about. Not adhering to the 10th tradition WITHIN A MEETING can mean the loss of a newcomer if they feel offended. Real problem that needs to be sanitized with the light of awareness.
Two very serious problems that need to be addressed;
Firstly, lack of adherence to the traditions within meetings.
Secondly, lack of adherence to the traditions outside of meetings.
There's really nothing more I can say. Charles, think very seriously about removing this post.
Come on over to a meeting on the East Side of L.A. Politics are never discussed. The "getting to know you" conversation often involves where you were locked up and for how long. Nevertheless I owe AA my life. There is more wisdom in one AA meeting than all the TV I ever watched. Often the stores are more entertaining as well.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Lev.%...
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deute...
I win. You lose, get with the picture.
I am straight, a Christian, and I abstain from shellfish.
i admire you for getting sober, especially during the auspicious time of 9/11–however-having been sober myself, in AA–since 1-25-81, i have learned through the 12 steps and 12 traditions (especially), that we, as members of AA, do not intermingle our sobriety, with politics, or affiliate ourselves with political parties, when we depict the stories of our recoveries….i was taught that, in early sobriety, and adhere to that, to this day…it only creates controversy–when we put these things on the internet….sobriety, is tough enough to attain, that, we don't need to interject our political feelings, or statements, in order that we carry tyhe message…you have merely scratched the surface, my AA friend, in your sobriety, and there will be more to be revealed to you, in the process….good luck and God speed in your sobriety..
ps: sometimes , it is better to know, that you are misinformed, than to open your mouth, and remove all doubt.
Old Timer wins on that count Wileygirl3…..think about it. "….hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy…." tradition 10
"…..We need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press ( internet ),radio and films…." tradition 11
" Our common welfare should come first….personal recovery depends on AA unity…." tradition 1
In pointing out the violations of these traditions….the messenger has enacted those very violations….nuff said.
Perhaps a chat with the old sponsor is in order…..Just sayin'……We all trudge…..
Too right, AA doesn't encourage freedom of thought, but it does help to facilitate the sobriety without which thought itself is impossible.
I (9 years sober at the end of last month, and in England – that's how far your blog reaches!) recovered my freedom of thought through the Orange Papers and the "without_aa" yahoo group. What I value about AA is not the steps (a recipe for pseudo-religious indoctrination if ever there was one) but the traditions, particularly Traditions 4 and 7, which inculcate independence and responsibility – Libertarian values.
Funny I just quit aa and am only a couple days sober. I have a good job and great family ties-even get laid pretty regular. But even i know enough not to go against the traditions (like not using my last name when identifying myself as a aa) because according Bill W's religious cult teachings-you will drink or worse if you go against traditions, btw-dats what da voodoo man teaching the traditions meating in the rewms sayz
AA is a cult-plain an simple.
How many Muslims you know go to AA mtgs?
God will remove your obsession to drink if you work this simple steps. LOL!
I wished he'd remove ones obsessions to BLOG.
I have been sober for years previous to this and I didn't die after having a few drinks. I know I must not be alcoholic (dis-ease). Well if you consider I started by shooting up Crown Royal cause i like the immediate taste and no burn and then no positive on breathilizers. Maybe I'm just an IV user. That would help me fit into that Lil AA box. AA likes to put "normal" people in lil boxes and it helps them validate themselves so the newcomers gets sucked into the thing- cause you steppers are the chosen and have a direct line to God and all that other drivel.
Please point out if insist on continuing in breaking many traditions of AA,(like the above bit of writing) that there are other avenues of quitting additive BEHAVIOR PROBLEM (not disease), the most successful being to just stop. Or Rational Recovery or SMART Recovery and not just get on your soap box and complain Im gay and not every one likes me…BE A RESPONSIBLE MEMBER OF SOCIETY IN RECOVERY.
But they really don't teach us that in AA. They say pray, work these steps (keep blaming yourself) and all your problems will be solved by God…wow now thats empowering stuff until you actually start trying to work unworkable steps and try getting a sponsor who tells you you don't need medicine and such quackery…maybe LA is just prone to Scientology? Good luck working steps to fix your cancer or any other real disease too!? I really do wish you the best and Congrats on the 5.5yrs!
peacelove
Dude, you should head East: Pasadena, Arcadia, Temple City, Sierra Madre, Alhambra, Monrovia are such bastions of right-wing ideology that you would think that tuning in to Dann Beck was one of the steps. Keep heading East and you pretty much don't dare attend an AA meeting without an NRA bumper sticker on your pick-up (women need not apply). They aren't shy about it either. Lots of crazy stuff from the podium. I sure didn't get sober to listen to a bunch of right wing loonies, but that was what was required. It is one of the many colossal problems with AA (along with the certifiable dual-diagnosed leaders and the rampant sexual and financial predation) that makes the whole thing not only unworkable but downright scary. The interesting thing to me was the number of right-wing wackos who were simultaneously ex-cons, now that's an interesting group.
Really, such rantings sound so hostile. Don't forget about the newcomer. If this article helps one newcomer then the seed is planted. Maybe you should read step one again today. God Bless
you sound "dry " to me. Lighten up bro.
Thank you for the insight. I think it's important that we talk openly about AA and recovery regardless of those who hide behind 11th tradition. Those who wish to share should. Those who wish not to shouldn't preach to others. It's about helping the newcomer…don't lose sight of this most important fact. If Charles has helped one newcomer by openly sharing here, then his work is done.
The steps were developed to save my life from me, the traditions were developed to save AA from me. Tradition 10 is important for the reasons your blog described. We are to be inclusive, never exclusive. Again save AA from me and my opinions. Tradition 11 is in place to save AA from me (you) specifically. If I write an article, do an interview or whatever it may be in the public spotlight, touting the program of AA and what it has done for me, and I go back out publicly (arrested, news, etc), then I have just planted a negative seed about the program. Lindsay Lohan is a prime example of that. Similar things are happening to a few Republicans that tout their Christian principles and then go stick their woohos in every wet warm hole they can find. This gives ammo to the left. Just as your blog will give ammo to the suffering families or the sickos like kc1964 above if you were to go out in a blaze of glory. cont….
cont… There is something to the humility needed and involved in the 11th tradition. The only difference between you and those at the podium in an AA meeting touting the evils of Bush is your audience is potentially bigger, which means more damage can be done. Not that something good couldn't or hasn't come from this, but I personally choose to adhere to the traditions as they are born out of the experience of those that came before us. In service, Mike B. – 16 years
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