Response To Tim Slagle’s Response To ‘Rap is Crap’
by Ben ShapiroAt the risk of entering an infinite regress here, I feel it necessary to respond to Tim Slagle’s response to my “Rap is Crap” post.
Let me start by stating that I don’t hate all rap. This is quality:
–
But seriously, as much as I admire Tim, rap is total garbage. I’m a member of the younger generation – I just turned 25 – and I still think it sucks.
That’s an artistic critique. That’s my personal opinion. But what’s unchallengeable is that the rap culture, which is granted enormous deference by the higher-ups of both political parties, does tremendous harm to this country.
It’s geared toward people who buy into a particular worldview – that’s most of the draw. Even the upper class white kids who listen to this stuff think Snoop Dogg’s drug use somehow makes him cool. I went to a Jewish high school, and the kids who listened to rap were driving Mercedes their parents bought them – but that didn’t stop them from slinging their pants low, saying “fo’shizzle” a lot, and defending Tupac’s honor. These are all harmless idiocies on their own, but when combined with rap culture’s respect for more egregious activities, they signify a societal tolerance for violence and misogyny that is utterly inappropriate.
Tim’s right that people once criticized rock and roll for “lack of melody and harmony, overemphasis on rhythm, vulgar, overly sexual lyrics.” And he’s right that it was called a “corrupter of youth.” So what? It’s difficult to argue that those who opposed rock and roll were entirely off base in their criticisms, what with the pervasive over-sexualization of the culture and massively increased drug use. And rap goes much, much further than rock has in the promotion of the degraded.
I agree with Tim that pop stars have never been a good influence on children and that “Most of them are drug addicts with dysfunctional relationships, regardless of what kinds of music they play.” But let’s just say that classical musicians don’t have a long history of busting caps in the asses of others.
Tim’s big question isn’t really about rap’s quality as music, but whether it’s good strategy to attack it from the right. “Do we really want this stigma attached to Republicans any longer?” Tim asks. “Are we tired of being the punchline yet?”
I would ask Tim but a single question. What’s more of a punchline: Republicans arguing that the rap culture is detrimental to society, or Michael Steele ridiculously arguing in favor of “hip-hop Republicanism?”
Here’s Tim’s own punchline: “Instead of becoming this generation’s uptight pantywaists, we should be looking for common ground between rap culture and ourselves. Isn’t that kind of what Big Hollywood originally set out to do: find common ground between conservatives and pop culture? Because, I think there is a lot of common ground. After all, we both have a fascination with guns and a distrust of government. And we both get a big kick out of making politically incorrect jokes.”
Let’s start at the beginning of this ode to conciliation. It’s fine to want to avoid being called an “uptight pantywaist” – being castigated is uncomfortable and annoying. But being labeled an “uptight pantywaist” by the media doesn’t mean you’re not actually helping society. Every pro-life figure has been called an “uptight pantywaist” at some point or another. Southern papers labeled Abraham Lincoln a “Yankee nutmeg dealer,” and somehow he dealt with it. Insults happen. If you’re doing the right thing, you deal with the slurs.
More to the point, I would argue that there is no common ground between the rap culture and us. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Tim’s arguments in favor of such a common ground are based on fundamental misconceptions about political coincidence of interest. Tim says both conservatives and rappers have a fascination with guns and a distrust of government. This is true in the broadest sense. There’s only one problem: conservatives are fascinated with guns so that they can defend their liberties and property from the 50 Cents of the world (multiple arrests for drug dealing; the name 50 Cent was derived from Kelvin Martin, a Brooklyn robber aka 50 Cent). Rappers are fascinated with guns so they can rob people and shoot cops and rival gang members.
Tim argues that we both have a distrust of government. Yes, that’s true. We distrust government because government takes our money without cause and redistributes it, and creates insanely complex bureaucracies to encroach upon our basic freedoms. Rappers distrust government only insofar as they distrust cops, who they think are racist. You don’t hear many rap songs complaining about the injustices of welfare or the lack of school choice promoted by the education system.
Tim says we both get a kick out of making politically incorrect jokes, and urges us to compare rap with South Park. I’ll leave that comparison to someone more well-versed in South Park than I, but I’ll comment on the politically incorrect jokes comparison. Tim says that “For the most part, rap lyrics are intended to be funny. And when you become incensed, you’re letting on that you didn’t get the joke.”
Okay, I’ll admit that I don’t get the jokes about raping and murdering one’s mother (Eminem), engaging in raunchy sex with multiple partners (too many rappers to count), and murdering cops (Ice-T). That’s politically incorrect, but so is a KKK cross burning. Neither is funny, neither should be shrugged off, and neither should be excused. Not everything politically incorrect is funny, and not everything politically incorrect is equally conservative.
Here’s the bottom line. I think rap is crappy art. Others may disagree. But more importantly, the rap culture is a disgusting culture. We can argue against the culture, or we can pretend there is common ground, ignore it, and watch it fester. There are other avenues of culture to infiltrate – movies, TV, rock music, fiction – but rap is not fertile ground for conservatives. We’re better off salting this ground than watering it with our apathy or endorsement.







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140 Comments
Throw it down red state ! Yo to that.
You and Tim should settle this James T. Kirk style — alien planet, ripped shirts, winner gets the green chick!
Bravo, Ben! I was reading Tim's piece and thinking, "No. I don't see what you're getting at. Rap "culture" really does suck and I don't think we (conservatives) need to compromise on this." And one thing that I REALLY disagree with is Tim's comment comparing rock and rap. I don't remember reading about The Ramones and AC/DC having a running gun battle down Wilshire Blvd before drinking forties with their hoes. I'm just saying.
P.S. My favorite Flight of the Conchords song — Business Time…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN0oDnoc3-c
One of my favorite rap songs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xEzGIuY7kw
"You don’t hear many rap songs complaining about the injustices of welfare or the lack of school choice promoted by the education system. "
This is true if you only focus on the popular acts. Look beyond the MTV and BET regulars and you might actually find some acts out there that talk about more than a material lifestyle. Ben's post clearly shows he is on the outside (way outside) looking in. Whether or not comon ground can be found between conservatives and hip hop culture is really up to the individual conservative, but only sticking with country music acts isn't going to get you anywhere.
And who says you need to share the same values of an artist to like their music? If that were the case, I'd pretty much listen to Stranglehold and Cat Scratch Fever over and over again…what fun is that?
I always liked Amish Paradise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsfVw9xxoNY
Another classic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj-JflMMKpk
Bravo! I knew White & Nerdy would have to make an appearance; Amish Paradise is classic, too.
My top three: Hurt Feelings, Issues (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLEK0UZH4cs), and Inner City Pressure (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wqfcwgT0Ds)
I love Inner City Pressure — "what happened to the underpants you had…" I also like Mutha Uckers, though I'm trying to keep things clean.
Great show!
Well, Ben, it's your turn in the barrel this time. I had mine yesterday. Good luck. I'm waiting until someone does a blog on dead German music, at which point I may rejoin the fray. I will enjoy the multiple threads this one will produce, however.
The day I see a hoopty [sic] rolling down da hood wit George Jones thumping from the woofers, and da OOOO's hangin out the winow, I may take a look at rap.
Dead German music glorifies flatulence and invasions of Poland.
"I don't remember reading about The Ramones and AC/DC having a running gun battle down Wilshire Blvd"
Holy sh… Wait a minute, that would have been AWESOME!
The worst part about it all, and I am in Atlanta (where the playas play) is that these ambassadors of rap culture make their presence known politically. There is a telling picture of democratic senatorial candidate, Jim Martin, on stage with Ludacris, TI and a host of other rappers, vying for the Atlanta vote—most of the people on stage couldnt even vote!!!!!!
…and 50 cent was actually pro-Bush.It has nothing to do with anything, but I think it should be said. Heck, if he wasn't a felon, he would have voted for him (he told GQ).
http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwe...
http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/50%2...
"If that were the case, I'd pretty much listen to Stranglehold and Cat Scratch Fever over and over again…what fun is that?"
Not much. Although it is kinda fun to play the Guitar Hero World Tour version of "Stranglehold" on fake plastic bass.
Yes, but it does it with humor.
50 cent was pro-Bush? Seriously?! That, I never suspected.
Unless you're Polish, or nearby.
I'm very polished, and I always keep my distance.
HA! I stopped with the other songs once I got to the Tool set list.
So whats your preferred genre of music Shapiro?
I've been loving Big Hollywood because it's "not your grandfather's conservatism." Guess I was wrong. You can criticize rap and things with in it…but this whole focus makes me sad. Like we're never going to win another election again…like we're the stereotype liberals say we are. Maybe we need to split off and form our own party…for those who can live in the real world and not be touchy about rap music or the fact the Onion doesn't do enough Obama jokes but who aren't total libertarians. At least Tim responded, good for him.
Am I the only one who thinks this post is a bit silly?
He starts by saying that Rap is Crap. Then he says that he likes one particular Flight of the Concords rap song. Then he again says "But seriously, as much as I admire Tim, rap is total garbage." Uh… ok. Then he deflects all criticism with the statement "That’s an artistic critique. That’s my personal opinion". What a cop out.
Then you go on to a different issue, which is one that I would generally agree with: that mainstream "rap culture" is misogynist, gratuitously violent, and and generally harmful to the people that buy into it as being "cool". If this was the point you wanted to make, then why didn't you just start off with it? Instead we start off with a stupid blanket statement that concept of "rap music" is bad–in and of itself. And no argument to support it other than "That’s my personal opinion."
Rap is crap
it ain't "all that"
it ain't so "phat"
performed by brats
with lyrics brash
our values smash
our culture bash
for cold hard cash
from po' white trash
like a herpes rash.
Rap is crap,
and that's a wrap!
Rap is crap
it ain't "all that"
it ain't so "phat"
performed by brats
with lyrics brash
our values smash
our culture bash
for cold hard cash
from po' white trash
like a herpes rash.
Rap is crap,
and that's a wrap!
I'm so cheap I wouldn't spend the fake in-game money to play those Tool songs.
Dude, you didn't get to play "Hot for Teacher" or "Satch Boogie" yet?
"But seriously, as much as I admire Tim, rap is total garbage. I’m a member of the younger generation – I just turned 25 – and I still think it sucks."
Saying that "rap is total garbage" is sort of like saying "opera is boring" – it's not a valid statement about the art form, its a statement about the speaker's narrowmindedness. A lot of rap is junk, but a lot of it's not. A lot of it degrades women and perpetuates the worst stereotypes people who don't live in urban areas have about people who do, but a lot of it does not. The television show "The Wire" did the same thing, and it is considered by anyone who watched its entire run – regardless of politics – one of the best shows ever produced. If degrading women and using filthy language are the only draw to the form, then logic would dictate that Andrew Dice Clay would be hosting The Tonight Show now instead of enjoying himself on the D-List.
Yesterday, I noted how good Eazy E's utterly vulgar "Eazy Duz It" album is. One of the earliest and most notorious rappers of gangsta style also contributed to the GOP and was hosted by Bush 41 because a local GOP pol helped fight the censorship of one of his albums. Conservatives have much more in common with these purveyors of "filth" than many want or care to realize.
[If anyone thinks this trollish, take a look at my site - I'm an OG Conservative, thanks!]
They're great songs; Al is a great artist. But he's not a rapper, he's not part of the "rap culture." He's a humorist.
"if he wasn't a felon, he would have voted for him"
That didn't stop T.I.: http://www.ajc.com/services/content/2008/10/30/ti...
He writes it better than I do, I tend to be too honest and direct, but the message sounds the same to me.
Not yet. I do want to get to La Bamba eventually… I know, how stereotypical.
Nothing does it for me like Cowboys From Hell and Bark At The Moon from the first GH.
yeah AC/DC always stayed away from writing songs about sex with loose women
The funny thing about Eazy E is that out of all the fake thugs in Hip Hop, he actually was the only actual criminal in NWA. The two lesser known guys (Yella and MC Ren) were just average guys. Dr. Dre was in another group where he wore shiny suits and makeup, and Ice Cube was attending the U of Arizona when they started.
I would argue that the gansta culture, misguided and rotten though it is, is an attempt by young males to make themselves feel that they are no longer victims — which is what 50 years of liberal policies have turned everyone around them into.
To that extent, that they are simply looking for a way to regain their independence and gain some level of control/self-respect over their lives, I would suggest that there is an opportunity for conservatives. Our philosophy has the potential to give them what they seek without all the negative baggage. But we need to engage them to explain this to them. Rather than just dismissing them as misguided, I would argue that we would be better served looking for ways to refocus their desires into more productive (and less destructive) avenues.
Looks like someone's been sniffin the Pledge. German humor – they don't call it the shortist book in the world for nothing
Being part German, I can say this. Germans can't help it, they're handicapped by their language:
French is the language of diplomacy,
English the language of law,
Italian the language of love,
and German the language in which you call your horse.
As an aside, I can't fly Northwest Airlines without thinking about what NWA stands for.
That's kind of the point. Al can put together something that actually rhymes and makes sense.
I liked rap when it first started. Folks like Run DMC, The Beastie Boys, and Young MC could put together something that might actually be considered a song. Today, not so much.
(As a side note, in the late 1980s I went to a Run DMC/Beastie Boys concert with a friend of mine from grad school. We were both in our 30s and he looked like Chewbacca's younger brother. We were probably twice the mean age of the attendees and obviously several shades paler. We got a few quizzical looks when we were standing on our chairs screaming like everyone else. Good thing they didn't know I was a Republican too!)
On a funny sidenote, there's a Jewish rapper whose name was inspired by 50cent: 50 Shekel. And back in the day there was 2 Live Jews [inspired from 2 Live Crew].
Don't forget this, yo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FArZxLj6DLk
Here's one I think both of you guys are missing – heavy drug use. The Beatles and the Stones popularized heroin (specifically, John Lennon and Mick Jagger, the latter of whom is not a conservative). Eric Clapton popularized cocaine. Coke / crack is the drug of choice among rappers and they promote it heavily. And guess who thinks it's cool because? All this stuff about the drug lords trying to take over Mexico? That's coke, folks. I was just on the phone today with someone telling me about the top heroin lord of Afghanistan. He has several MiGs under his command, among other things.
THE RAP CULTURE PROMOTES HEAVY DRUGS. Rock did the same. Rap is not just crap, it's DEATH.
Meant to say, Jagger is NOW a conservative.
Troll alert @ THE UNDERLING!
Formula: "I thought Big Hollywood was hip, but I guess I'm wrong"
also: "We'll lose every election if we stand up for X issue"
I probably wouldn't cut as sharply as Ben, but I generally agree with his premise. Rap itself is what it is, poetry set to a musical beat. But the culture that American rap has spawned is undeniably hurtful to our society.
Mine Frau is German..I married her in Germany while I was in the Army (25 Years Ago)
It has taken her that long to understand America and especially our specific brand of humor, let alone music…….
I loved living in Germany but I kissed the ground of the good ole USA when I got back.
Speaking of the German language, 25 years later and I still can't hock a lugey when I need to role the R's so I don;t even try…………
Hey all the Germans I know still claim they were just on vacation !!!!
I was thinking that I didn't like rap at all (gives me a headache, even when I can't understand the dirty lyrics) but if Amish Paradise is rap, then yes, actually, that one is funny, I like it.
The difference is that rock culture glorified the users of heavy drugs, while rap glorifies the dealer. The drug that most rappers use is weed. Very few actually talk about using other drugs, just about selling them and living by the code: Don't get high on your own supply.
Ben Shapiro,
Absolutely 100% ineluctably irreducibly correct, line by line. Bravo.
Is he? I thought he said a lot of nasty things about Bush. And didn't he have mean song about Bush? I really don't know much about what Jagger has been doing but I am curious about this.
Someone told me and I checked (used to know his former sister-in-laws, Jerry's sisters). Didn't get it from Mick of course, don't know about his Bush's comments, but I have my own complaints with GW.
My mother and her family are Germans, and from what I've seen, German humor is… well… it's not very humorous. Germany is a nice place to visit, but the USA is the only place I want to live.
I never could roll the R's either.
I love Flight of the Conchords.
(Wait–what was the theme of Ben's response?)
And yes. I have been told I look like a llama. Hurtful.
50 cent showed up a a national GOP convention, 2004 I think. Didn't perform.
Lumping all hip-hop into one category as "crap" is not helpful. As a few commenters have pointed out, rap isn't just gangsta, isn't just about drugs, isn't just lots of things. If it's not to your taste, that's fine, but what you've done here is essentially the same as saying movies are bad for our culture because some of them are pornographic.
Being of a somewhat libertarian bent, I like some pretty offensive rap stuff and I don't stop listening to it because it's not the most moral thing in the history of the universe. Eminem's Marshall Mathers LP has several moments of sheer genius, including many of its most offensive moments ("Criminal," "Kim"). I have a hard time listening to Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold us Back and Fear of a Black Planet after September 11 due to the militant Islam and anti-Semitism, but both can be defended as art. Mobb Deep's The Infamous is about street life and drug dealing, but it doesn't glamorize it at all–if anything, it may have scared a few kids shi*less and caused them to rethink their career options. All four records are considered classic, and rightfully so. None of them are crap.
I'm in my mid-thirties now, and have been listening to the stuff since high school. It has had about as much influence on my behavior as a crime novel where the bad guy gets away with it (I'm thinking Parker) or a Johnny Cash murder ballad. Are there others who try to act out the lifestyle? Sure. And there are people who try to act out The Godfather, too. Do we have to make our art idiot-proof?
If we apply a litmus test to the art we will accept, we're all going to be really bored.
The Beastie Boys need to do more instrumental stuff. I've listened to The In Sound from Way Out, I know they're talented enough to pull it off…
Good job spotting the Moby. (Anyone who doesn't know what that means, inquire at LGF.)
I got embroiled in a discussion years ago with a couple of friends at work, big-time rap fans.
"It's not music," I said. They, of course, disagreed.
"I'll tell you what… You're both musicians, right?" They nodded.
"You – " I pointed to one of them – "hum for us your favorite rap 'tune', and you – " I pointed to the other – "tell us what it is from what he's humming."
They thought about it for a moment, then laughed.
"I rest my case," I told 'em…
"Sweet Neocon" http://www.keno.org/stones_lyrics/sweet_neo_con.h... Prob. not advisable for work
[...] Shapiro at Big Hollywood, who is apparently out to hurt the feelings of rappers like these. For [...]
You…there's so many things I can call you but I want my post to stick. I've posted 1,000s of times here with two or three comments that are either critical of BH or conservatives at all. Come back when you've posted as much as I have. I think you're a troll.
The thing is, give your opinion of rap all you want, but versions of this piece were written in 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1995, 2000 etc. etc., and will be written in 2075 when we finally have those jetpacks and live on Mars. People have been decrying rap since day one, and it's only gotten bigger and bigger.Please get over it and just accept that it is an established, popular musical genre that you just don't like. (for me: zydeco, polka and Norwegian Death Metal) As others have said, there's some really good stuff out there. There are also a lot of morons exemplifying "thug life" who are setting horrific examples. But there are always going to be bad role models. Rap's an easy target but the truth is that to hear continued harangues on the evils of hip hop do tend to make one seem curmudgeonly beyond one's years, and do nothing to change anyone's opinion or affect the industry one whit.
And BTW – I criticize BH and these posts because I think BH kicks so much a–. It's cool people can post here things that other sites wouldn't like "rap is crap." I just think the notion is so unhelpful and so unrepresentative of a lot of conservatives like myself.
Well, both my parents were full-blooded German, and they had a great sense of humor. After all, they produced me. Wait, that didn't come out right.
And Germans particularly love vacationing in Paris.
sex with loose women is just a little different than raping your rivals mother…
It will be worth it when you see the Ozzy Osbourne avatar singing "La Bamba"
No, German is the language of philosophy. While you're trying to figure out what the hell Hegel was talking about, they take over your country. And while you're trying to figure this out, don't forget, I now control America's beer, bread and wheelbarrow industries. I'll need to know how many parts of you are German. We will then give you a partial German discount.
Yup. Very silly
Shapiro, you had your say. Rebutting a friendly rebuttal with most of your same original points is pretty cheesy. I even agree with some of those points as I have no time for rap — or at least 80 percent of it. It's not that I take great offence, it just aint my thang. But seriously, getting all categorical about art or entertainment is weak, dude. By your standards, why stop at rap? How many great films would fail your test? Probably anything Tarantino ever made, which might be just fine for you, but simply calling it 'crap' is intellectually dishonest.
Oh please. God forbid anyone have an opinion about anything. Rap is crap, end of story. Ditching our core principles isn't going to win elections either. I know that you only mentioned these complaints about rap, but I bet you're like David Frum and others, who want the Republican party to soften it's stance on social issues just so we can grab a few more moderates.
I don't consider fawning over rap to be living in the real world. In the real world, people like different genres of music. In the real world, people have opinions on the more popular genres of music, especially when that's all you hear on top 40 radio stations (along with that god-awful pop rock crap).
So go ahead then and split off onto your own party. The Republican party does not need any more RINOs. I am sick and tired of these soft-on-social issue "conservatives" whining and crying every time we object to something. And furthermore, I think the Republican loss last year was a lot more complicated than this image of "Republicans are a bunch of uptight losers who want to regulate our private lives".
Okay, I should clarify by saying that gangsta rap is what I think is crap. Original rap from the late 70s and early to mid 80s is good, although I don't really listen to it all that often. For me, an example of good rapping can be found on the song 'Bombs' by Faithless. The mainstream stuff is what's crap.
I agree. Don't let the door hit you and knock you flat on your confused face. The Republicans lost purely because they did NOT appeal to core founding father principles that would greatly appeal to libertarians and others who want government OUT OF OUR FACE. You know, like rap is totally IN YOUR FACE? Look at McCain's confused "please love me" daughter out there embarrassing herself. Never win another election, my ass. Republicans look stupid when they try to be something they're not. Newt doesn't do it, he just comes up with solutions. There are NO broad workable societal solutions I've ever heard in rap, and I'm involved right now with people who worked with Dr. Dre and Biggie Smalls. Yet, the way they "present" it's all, yo, be lak me, word, this how ta be. The guys who do this big know it, get in, make the money, then go utterly legit, like Ice T and Diddy. Playa my butt – they're playing a whole stupid generation.
"…due to the militant Islam and anti-Semitism, but both can be defended as art."
Sure, by those standards you can defend ANYTHING as "art"- giant plastic dog turds, rotting cow corpses in a glass tank (at a tony gallery in London), A statue of Jesus covered in urine (forget where, but it was in the news).
You are perfectly free to defend all such abominations as "art"; but others, in turn, are also free to call them despicable and degenerate to the max.
Gotta read Dr Thomas Sowell on this: "Black Rednecks, White Liberals"–skewers the idea of rap as 'an expression of black culture'
I'm 75% German (though part of that may be Austrian — don't tell my grandmother I said that though), I speak German, and I am fluent in German biers. Good enough for a discount?
It's safe to say that this now represents the lamest, whitest "rap feud" I've EVER seen…
Somehow I missed that. I am frankly amazed.
Ganz gut. And you get another discount for being part of the brotherhood, mein Advokat.
Oh sweet, a lawyer's discount! That almost makes law school worthwhile.
And you can pay using your platinum Bier und Brod Kart.
Wunderbar!
Man, your empire is growing: wheelbarrows, bread, bier, and now credit cards. You're becoming a real Obama-profiteer.
HAH!! A hit, a very palpable hit!
I agree with you to a certain extent. I think what people are failing to separate though is the mainstream rap from other hip hop. Generally speaking, it is indeed the artists on mainstream rap stations (Fifty, Eminem, T.I., Snoop Dogg) that do degrade women, talk about heavy drug use and violence, etc. There are some interesting statistics that back up teen pregnancy rates and women who listen to sex riddled rap lyrics. But if people were to open their minds and branch out and discover some of the lesser known artists – Jurassic Five, Typical Cats, Aesop Rock, Fat Lip, Atmosphere…the list goes on, they would find that creativity, conscientiousness, and intelligence can reside in the rap and hip hop culture. Gangsta rap (and most mainstream rap) is a sub genre that can have some filthy ideas and lyrics, but these are artists and businesses simply making money? Is the subject matter immoral? yeah, but who are we to judge?
The real issue here is parental control. Labels are put on albums warning consumers of explicit content, and many nationwide retailers will not sell an album with this label to someone under the age of 17 (same goes for Rated R movies; next time you purchase one or the other at Walmart, Fred Meyer, Target, etc notice on the register LED readout that it will say "is customer under 17?"). There are a lot of crappy parents out there and unfortunately many of them don't get involved in what their kids are into, and in some cases these kids are into women hating, gun toting, drug dealing rap and these kids may have an impressionable mind. Bottom line is these artists are trying to make a buck, and with millions of albums sold / downloaded the economy is being stimulated, parents need to be responsible for what their kids here; not political groups, parental groups, the government, or any other entity; especially those with a "bad rap" (yeah yeah pardon the pun) for policing and nay saying this sort of thing as you so eloquently put, Ben.
I understand where you're coming from, but is there nothing that doesn't reflect your personal values that you think has artistic merit? I can't speak for you, but that would be impossible for me.
Both of the Public Enemy albums I mentioned are very good records. If all they were was offensive, I wouldn't bother. They are both much better than giant plastic dog turds.
Dammit. I agree with the liberals.
I think there is a serious distinction to be made between Old School Rap and Gangsta Rap and unfortunately Old School Rap somehow lost out. There is an Old School Rap song that shows the distinct difference between the "Pimping" attitude of Gangsta rappers and the Cool attiltude of Old School. "Roxanne".
The song is about three guys trying to win the notice of "Roxanne". They attempt the witty approach, the smart approach, the cool approach and Roxanne spurns them all. There is another female artist that gives a funny answer to this song. Old school talked about Big Macs and was fun. You did not hear the B-Words, H-Words, P-words etc. You did not hear about firearms either.
I think the take we conservatives should have is "Hey, what ever happened to Old School Rap".
Sure, there's PLENTY of music and art out there that doesn't reflect my personal values by a long shot, but that I still would recognize as "art". But there are also certain types of "music"- rap in particular, but also that atonal "modern" classical noise- that, to ME at least, utterly fails to quality as "art".
As for the visual arts, in addition to those above-mentioned examples, there was recently a blog here on B.H. concerning a urinal made out of a likeness of Bush's head with a wide open mouth.
I wouldn't consider THAT piece of despicable garbage as "art" either.
A vile and deplorable "statement" yes, but certainly NOT "art".
Nor do I regard those laughable "white on white", "red circle and square", etc. "paintings" as art.
In any event, that's just MY opinion, and I wouldn't expect anyone to pay the least bit attention to what I happen to think about this subject (and the feeling is reciprocated).
Lol!! Great!
"Not everything politically incorrect is funny"
So true.
What about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4WWDprtFMM
3rd Bass, Brooklyn-Queens. I used to have a crush on Pete Nice. :p
*MissQuinn*
Guns n' Roses: It's So Easy lyrics
"Turn around bitch I got a use for you
Besides you ain't got nothin' better to do
And I'm bored"
Damn blocking of swear words when I'm quoting lyrics
Guns n Roses: It's So Easy
"Turn around b**ch I got a use for you
Besides, you ain't got nothing better to do
And I'm bored"
Which coincidentally describes my relationship with this site!
I've actually yet to understand why more Rappers are not Republican, they obviously don't believe in gun control, with all of the bling bling, fancy cars, large boats, gold teeth… it's pretty obvious where they stand on Capitalism.
I like BT, too, but my fave is the Hippophopotamus and Rhymnocerious. I know I butchered the spelling on that, but that one cracks me up. Also like the Carole Brown or Chorus of Ex-Girlfriends. They are very entertaining. I am afraid I lean more to Shapiro on this one. I have listened to lots of rap, hip hop, krunk, gangsta, whatever anyone classifies it, and most of it does nothing more than support a horrible lifestyle. Yes, some is cleaner and better than rest, and yes, there are some good beats to certain songs, but, the problem is, too many kids want to emulate the people making it.
PMS much? Jeez! This is called having a discussion, sorry it bores you, most adults seem to like it.
I just posted that, James! LOL, I guess I should have kept going down the thread. But, yeah, love that one.Those guys are great.
I love the Beastie Boys. I have been a fan since they began, and still think they are great.
I'm in ATL, too, freedom. Yes, the rappers do make their presence known politically. In most places they get treated well. I mentioned on another thread that a few weeks back, Lil' Jon was eating lunch one table over from me and the hubby. He had his whole enterourage. I live in a gated community that is part of a winery/resort, and Whitney and Bobby Brown used to come here when they were still together. I was at the spa with her, she looked rough! Also, Usher got married here about 2 yrs ago, and I went up to the main dining room and checked them out. Man, it was lavish. He's a short little dude, BTW. I guess my point was that they do a lot of recording in ATL, and it is not uncommon to see famous ppl, way the heck out in the suburbs. The mayor seems to like to rub elbows with them all.
Amalia, Skip,
Yep, yep, yep. The last two weeks Meghan McCain has been out and about getting adulation from the liberals, who love anyone who will trash Conservatives. She is not a child, but a grown woman, and she is not hurting the party, at all. She is just embarssing herself, mostly due to her lack of knowledge, and her lack of principles. She comes out and says people like Laura Ingraham and Ann Coulter are harsh and infammatory, yet she posts on her blog that Russell Brand is her favorite comedian, and that a cartoon with Rush Limbaugh portrayed as Jabba the Hutt is the funniest thing she's ever seen. Her age is not an excuse for this, as she is 24. She actually seems like a sad young woman who wants attention of any kind. Being the party of the Davids Brooks and Frum, or Kathleen Parker, doesn't win votes and hearts. It's been done to death, and doesn't work!
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