SPEECH POLICE: County Commission Stalls Val Kilmer’s Plans to Develop Property Until He ‘Explains Ethnically Insulting Comments’
by Big Hollywood***UPDATE: Most embarrassing grammatical error in the history of Big Hollywood has been fixed.
First off, though Kilmer claims he was misquoted, what he is accused of saying doesn’t even mention race. Second, in America, even the most vicious and divisive of racists are allowed to develop their own property. Have you seen Al Sharpton’s home?
Aggrieved by a planning board’s decision permitting Kilmer to rent out guesthouses on his 5,300-acre ranch, the neighbors charged that he had denied locals access to fishing holes in the nearby Pecos River and made ethnically insulting comments in magazine interviews.
The San Miguel County Commission responded by tabling Kilmer’s application until he comes forward to explain his comments. It has scheduled a June 23 public meeting for that purpose, which Kilmer is expected to attend.
That, in turn, has drawn fire from the New Mexico chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, which has offered to represent Kilmer, saying the commission violated his 1st Amendment rights.
Calls and e-mails to Kilmer were not returned, but he recently told the Albuquerque Journal that he had tried to be a good neighbor, helping local schools and supporting wildlife preservation on his ranch.
“It’s very upsetting for my friends,” he told the newspaper. “I’m not worried at all about the reaction because I just see it as an opportunity to bring people together. No one would make a false statement like this statement of racism if they knew what we were doing.” …
But Abran Tapia, a 76-year-old Rowe native and civil rights activist, sees a darker side. According to Tapia, Kilmer has chased off people who walked through his property to fish in the Pecos. Tapia, who fished and swam in the river as a child, accuses Kilmer of creating a segregated lodge to keep Latinos out.
Tapia counts himself among a sizable number of local residents offended by comments Kilmer allegedly made in a 2003 Rolling Stone interview.
That story quoted Kilmer as saying he lives “in the homicide capital of the Southwest” and keeps a gun in his vehicle. According to the magazine, Kilmer added, “Eighty percent of the people in my county are drunk.”
The actor says he was misquoted.
We should all thank the ACLU for once again proving the stopped-clock theory correct…
Methinks this Abran Tapia has all the makings of a race hustler who smells a shakedown courtesy of a wealthy movie star.
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348 Comments
Good Lord. If you're not allowed to chase people off your property, what's the point in living? I live for the day when I'm a cranky old man and I can yell out the window to those rascally teenagers, "Hey, stay off my laaawwwn!"
Seriously though, with the Kelo decision on eminent domain, property rights are only suggested anymore. Kilmer should decline their meeting, make some incendiary remarks he doesn't even believe just to make them even more mad and then take them all the way to the Supreme Court, if necessary, to get his application filed rather than bow down to them at a meeting they chose.
The comments are only ethnically offensive if you're ashamed of your heritage. He said the county was a bunch of drunks. So? As my old grandpa used to say, 'throw a rock into a pack of dogs and the one it hits is going to yelp'. The ethnically offensive comments belong to Tapia and his ilk.
First off, though Kilmer claims he was misquoted, what he is accused of saying don’t even mention race.
First off….it's Doesn't not Don't.
Second, grammar patrol being completed, you're right..even if he is a raging bigot that makes Helen Thomas look compassionate..if it's his property..he can develop it. If we lose the right to personal property..everything is gone…we need to stand up soon…or we'll have nothing to stand on.
This kind of Progressive abuse of power, to destroy and deny property rights, is the kind of exposure we need to trumpet — stand and fight to let all property owners know that such Constitutional violations will not be tolerated. This is the perfect situation that needs a major response in the form of extreme legal attacks and lawsuits. Millions of American property owners have their rights denied and abused daily by local, state, and fed bureaucrats. Every time a property owner cows to a regulators un-Constitutional demands and delays, the rest of us loose a portion of our Liberty. If the government wants to devalue our properties, they must pay a fair price – inverse-condemnation must be exposed and compensated.
Now his speech has to pass muster? How outrageous! Suppose he had said, " I don't want any (insert ethnic slur), or (insert ethnic slur), or (insert ethnic slur) or my property"? So what? Supposed he said things that would have made Archie Bunker blush. So what? I don't care if he is a dyed-in-the-wool, hardcore racist. It's his damn property and he should be permitted to do any lawful thing he wishes with it.
Not only that but maybe 80% of them are drunks. How is it offensive for someone to state the obvious?
Even if we can all agree that he said something offensive. So what? Now we can't say anything that is offensive?
Seeing that he's a white man trying to defend his property rights, I am earnestly surprised to see the ACLU come to his "rescue."
SPEECH POLICE…
First off, though Kilmer claims he was misquoted, what he is accused of saying
don’tdoesn't even mention race.Sorry, unable to resist the irony.
More importantly, if 80% of the people in his county actually are drunk, isn't that a much more pressing problem? And since when is it illegal to deny access to your property, regardless of race? Conversely, do these nimrods then believe that a person's race gives them freedom to walk wherever they choose?
I hate to side with the ACLU on anything, but maybe this once.
First of all, why does a "planning board" have ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to say about what a man does on his 5K+ acre ranch? Secondly, who could POSSIBLY blame a ranch owner for "chasing off" locals who are in all probability littering, drinking and using drugs on the place? (There may be some legal liability for what happens to them on Kilmer's place, no?). Finally – as someone who has lived in the remote area of Texas south of the New Mexico border – I can attest to the fact that a lot of drinking and drug using goes on out there, so – while he may have ticked off his neighbors (Never smart) – I don't even see much wrong with what he was quoted as saying, even if it is accurate and not a misquote: There's no, "there there" for any potential claim of racism.
P.S. I think Kilmer is often a world class douche.
I had to reread that sentence a few times.
The ACLU helping a white guy?
I'm stunned.
; )
This is the same kind of thinking that allows people to go poking around in someone else's old barn, get injured, and sue the property owner for having a dangerous "enticement."
We could make a point of enjoying the property owned by those on the board. "Hi, nice barbecue pit you got here…." "I've just stopped by to take a dip in your pool, I won't be here long…" "Oh, you wanted to park in your garage? Sorry, I got here first…" "I don't have cable, so I thought I'd come over and watch yours…"
You forgot that we now live in the PC and diversity century. Truth is hateful and divisive. We must all learn to get along, Otherwise someone might be offended and cry.
So because this douche bag swam in the river when he was a kid it gives him the right to trespass on private property, talk about entitlement.
Ever think that Kilmer knows the minute one of these trespassers drowns, breaks a leg or arm or gets killed while drunk on his property they or their family is going to sue him. He will be sued because he knew the river could drown someone and he didn't do enough to post his property to keep people out, or better yet warn them of dangers. LMAO You can't win in this society of dirt bags and lawyers we have now.
I think in California the public has a right to public access to beaches. I think that some private property owners have to provide a route through there property to reach the beach.
Also in England, I think there are public paths on large private properties.
So, does Texas have any law about public access to the river?
Give the public access to the fishing holes, but the eminent-domain execution must be compensated – and if that destroys the value of the private-property, then we-the-people must pay Mr. Kilmer big money for that destruction. It’s we-the-people that must be held responsible for the denial and destruction of private-property rights by OUR government bureaucrats abuse.
The implied slurs are that Mexicans can't hold their liquor and are a bunch of crooks. I'll stop there.
Exactly, installed an above ground pool recently and I have to change the wire on my split rail fence to the outside rather than the inside per code so that if anyone jumps my fence and drowns in my pool, I have a better shot at not being held liable. Notice I said a "better shot," not a "foolproof protection."
I can help but think of the end of a quote: " ..and then they came for thee."
If Hollywood thinks it is immune against the thuggery the rest of the country is getting, they are sorely mistaken.
This is what Rand Paul was talking about to Rachel Maddows. When the unethical standard of government having an absolute right to supercede and supplant private rights is applied to one sphere of public life in the name of solving discrimination, the slippery slope leads to this kind of misuse of public institutions by the absurd justifications of out of control liberal do-gooders.
misquoted? perhaps…
But incorrect? Hardly. Many residents of New Mexico carry weapons, and alcoholism IS rampant, particularly amongst the Indian Reservations which he is pretty much surrounded by. Santa Fe is lovely country, the Kit Carson National Forest one of the prettiest, and it is a great lifestyle.
If you're rich.
Having owned land in SW Colorado not far from Kilmer, we can speak to it's charms- and drawbacks. Be prepared for fisticuffs on a Friday night in the local gin mill. Or to be run off the road by a roaring drunk. Or to have your place broken into by people you invited in your home.
So, the sympathy here is FOR Mr Kilmer, not against…
Aren't there many areas of the country where a "board" tells you what color your house/condo can be painted or whether or not you can park your car on the sidewalk/lawn or have a yard sale? And often those are affluent areas where you are the homeowner. (my aunt lives in a gated area in Peeksli,, NY, and there are only approved colors she can paint the home she owns) New Mexico is notoriously …eccentric shall we say, but while it may be wrong, it doesn't strike me as that unusual.
what are Mr. Kilmer's political leanings, if any? should i be outraged at this abuse of govt power ,or laughing at another liberal schmuck being hoist upon his own petard?
If Tapia thinks he's going to get a lot from Kilmer, he clearly hasn't been tracking the box office of "McGruber…"
Sounds like Tapia is just another race baiter trying to profit from doing nothing in life. Playing the victim in America is profitable due to the useful idiots.
So basically if you make a statement how ever many odd years ago and you uphold your property line and chase off trespassers you are racist. Bullshit. If this area has a high population of Native Americans, which I am part of, then the quote is true. Alcoholism and Reservations go hand in hand with poverty. Calling it something else and speaking PC phrases doesnt change the fact.
Kilmer needs to counter sue for defemation of character and slander.
If Kilmer's usage of his property conforms to the local zoning regulations, what he says and whether he runs uninvited strays off his property does not enter into consideration.
If the local board continues to table his petition, a lawsuit would be appropriate. Unfortunately any monetary judgment against the buffoons on the board would be borne by the local taxpayers. As usual, the regular Joe and Josephine foot the tab for the government's acts of stupidity.
Could a beer summit be on the horizon?
I suspect that Big H. and mousiemarie have Tapia pegged.
My heretofore marginal appreciation of Kilmer went up a notch when I read that he carries, or totes as some might say. That he's willing to defend himself nudges him away from the Hollywood anti-2A's who pay bodyguards to carry for them, over towards the flown over side of the population. Good for him.
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In Maine, the public is guaranteed access to beaches below the high-tide mark. How they get there is a matter of contention. Down in the Moody Beach area, it's common for the 'public' to take a pee into someone's roses on the way to the beach along the marked paths. No recourse, except to hope for a strong wind.
But river access is different. If you own the land down to the waterline, you own the land. No access. And lakes or ponds the same, no access.
Val may or may not be a douche, but he's certainly entitled to his property, and more to the point his property rights should NOT be subservient to some real or imagined racism. Is it illegal in California to BE a racist? And is it illegal to act like a racist in California on your own property? Interesting. I'm not moving from Arizona any time soon.
Where there is "abuse of govt power", the "political leanings" of the abused are immaterial. This kind of willingness to wobble, situational ethics analysis of the abuses, instead of standing on principles is exactly what creates the "slippery slope" on which we are sliding at breakneck speed!
I used to play in a big forest when I was a kid. One day I woke up and the forest was gone. Now it's all condos full of evil white people. Who do I complain to about that?
My 9yr old sent it to me and I haven't heard it in a very long time. In my way of thinking, it fits… You can never go wrong with the Duke.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fuzLTrwVbc&fe...
In the West, when land is fenced and posted No Trespassing, the normal thing to do is go to the land owner in person and ask permission to fish, swim, hike, etc. It's called good manners. Permission is usually given. I suspect 70% of this is the jealousy of losers that Val has done so well.
Maybe the locals are just getting tired of Kilmer telling everybody he's their huckleberry. Maybe they don't want him to be their huckleberry. Maybe they don't even like huckleberries. I know *I* don't like huckleberries. Do you?
Here is Kilmer's problem. He has this crazy notion that because he bought and paid for that property and has a deed to it, that he actually owns it. Go to a planning board meeting one time and you'll find out the sad truth.
It may seem to be pejorative, but it may also be true. And the truth makes for an interesting defense. What really bothers me is the county commission's emotional, pc response to the permit, vs a rational, measured one.
Exactly what ethnicity is "drunk" I have been drunk, but I do not think that fact is in any way related to my ancestry. From which country or region do Drunks trace their roots?
I'm not quite sure what a huckleberry is, but if it is related to sasafrass then, no, I don't like them at all.
Both…
In Texas or anywhere in the U.S. the public has a right to the waterways up to the flood line apparent on the stated lake or river. I have a creek on my property, people are allowed to come up the creek exit the boat or canoe and camp on the sand bars but are limited to the flood plain area. If they want acces to the creek through my private property I do not have to give it, but this is a moot point beacuse anyone can acces the river from a public point, it's called a bridge. Anywhere a road bridge goes over a river you can publicly access the river and canoe up or down it. A lot of bridges in my area have wide areas for parking so people can fish. If this guy wanted a fishing spot encircled by Kilmer's property bad enough all he has to do is access the river elsewhere and use a canoe or boat to reach the spot.
"…Kilmer has chased off people who walked through his property to fish in the Pecos."
Erm, am I missing something here? Aren't people NOT supposed to trespass on other people's property?
Billy Clanton: "You're so drunk, you're probably seein' double."
Doc Holliday: " That's why I brought two guns."
As a NATIVE New Mexican, I can answer a LOT of this…
1. Northern New Mexico is "odd"…there is a matter of the Spanish land grants that the US was supposed to honor when New Mexico came into the Union back in 1912…and was promptly forgotten about…Google and see: "Reies Lopez Tijerina"…that'll give you a sense of the mind set up there…
2. Consequently, if you throw a rich (to them) white guy up there, (political wing does not count, except in the ferocity of the resentment response), who has purchased property (of theirs…so they think), in that part of the state, the usual resentment gets amplified…especially to the "entitlement mentality" of Northern New Mexico…twitch that with the historical friction of water usage in a semi-arid state…
3. Add a occasionally snotty-nosed actor with political tone-deafness and a big mouth…not that he's too far off the mark about needing a handgun and to avoid drunken behavior by the locals, (this state is horribly notorious about drinking and driving)…and the audacity to at one time think he might want to be Governor around here…
4. And state/local governance more dependent on ethnic/familial/political party ties than rule of law…again, Google "Manny Aragon", "Ray Sanchez", and, of course, "Bill Richardson"…Patron is still the rule around here…
Shake well…
Welcome to "The Land of Enchantment"…land of the flea, home of the plague…
Like ILLEGAL, DRUNK is not a race or ethnicity.
The terminology — "cutting through" his property — implies there is another route to this river but Kilmer's place has a short cut. Which, in the old America, he shouldn't have been required to provide.
However, the terminology could be wrong and he does have to provide access. When I imagine the lay of the land, though, beaches have whole different access issues than rivers.
A Mexican family bought my grandparents' old farm. Using Tapia's logic, that means I should be able to spend my summers at their house since that's what I did as a kid. And if they disagree, they're racists.
I like it.
It sounds more like a dispute between locals and imports. Kilmer moves in with money and people who grew up roaming over the countryside suddenly find fences and gates.
To riff off of Texas's "it's a whole other country," New Mexico, it's a third world country.
Combine that with "Left Texas" and the true strangeness of driving over a land grant and wondering if your car breaks down if anyone will ever see you again (the "keep out" signs I've seen are comprehensive and creative… no land sales, stopping, photographs, etc.) and a view of imports (ie. Richardson) as carpetbaggers… it makes the politics an interesting mix of liberal and yes, patron.
The little bit I've gotten anywhere else in the state it seems nicely "small-town" and normal but I certainly agree that "odd" describes Albuquerque, Santa Fe and North.
And Albuquerque is pretty much "murder capital" and I don't know how much safer is Santa Fe. Not that I spend any significant time worried about it.
Pleople from south of the border dont respect private property rights and have gotten away with too much …..Kilmer should sue…..
When given sour grapes one should attempt to make grape juice, or something like that. At the Thought Ministry meeting, where he must explain himself, he should fess-up that the drunk remark was actually a compliment. After all, the next morning that 80% will be sober; the remaining 20% will still be stupid (paraphrasing either W.C. Fields or Winston Churchill, can't recall which at the moment).
Uh…you do know NEW Mexico is part of the U.S., right?
How South of the border applies to New Mexico I have no idea at all. People living here took up collections and sent aid to the Revolutionary army against the British. Settlements here pre-date the American Westward expansion not by 100 years but by 200 years. This is where land grants become an issue. The city of Albuquerque is older than the United States. (And this is, of course, entirely ignoring native populations.)
Yes, I said "third world country" and I meant it. But as much fun as a pile-on can be, lets be factually accurate.
Try explaining that to a liberal.
Oh dear, it's been a long day. I thought that was Billy Clinton for a while and didn't realize my mistake until I got to the part about two guns.
When I was a kid gasoline was only 49 cents a gallon. That's all I'm going to pay now. Hey! This kind of logic has a really good up-side!
I hope this is one of those times when a usual Lefty finally gets HIS oxed gored and realizes what a bunch of idiots people on the Left are. They may not become raging conservatives, but at least classical liberals like Tammy Bruce, or libertarians like John Stossel.
New Mexico is a very strange place, has some beauty, and some, not so much.. I went into the Walmart in Santa Fe a few years back while visiting, it was the scariest place I have ever been in. I've been told, be careful while traveling thru NM.. Alot of gangs, drugs, violence…
The huckleberry reference is to, I assume, this scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL3GSaLvE4I from the movie Tombstone.
The meaning and usage of the term, huckleberry, as in I'm your huckleberry during that time is described here, http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-huc1.htm
Val Kilmer does not look like the photo used here. He looks more like Chasity/Chaz Bono now. He has gain a bit of weight. http://www.hollywoodgrind.com/tag/val-kilmer/
I got the reference, Val Kilmer as Doc Holliday. I just didn't know what a huckleberry was. Thanks for the link.
He usually votes for cheesecake.
So because he stated his impressions of where he lives he has to come before a commitee, does this not sound a little like I don't know, communists. I will also point out that New Mexico has a law on the books that people have to ask permission from landowners to access the rivers and lakes there is NO public access easments in this state to rivers or lakes.
But it is a way of life…
If there was an implied slur it is that they hold there liquor all too frequently.
First off, to Mr. Kilmer–welcome to the party! The TEA PARTY, that is. We're constantly being called "racists" with absolutely no basis to it. Get used to it.
Second, being the Lefty that Mr. Kilmer is, I wonder how he stands on ranchers down on the border being sued by illegals for "violating their civil rights" if they try to protect their property from THOUSANDS of people "cutting across" their land? Because under this administration and the Hollyweird bunch, private property is only for the likes of Ted Tunner (who owns practically half of New Mexico).
his political leanings should be immaterial. being correct has nothing to do with your politics. It has to do with right and wrong.
80% of my family are drunks. I pack when I'm around them too!!!
Oh was that a classic role. Old school stuff. Great film.
None of us "get it", do we? I know I believe on a subliminal level that in America, it is possible to have private property. But tit isn't. I live in a very nice house which we paid the bank for, but I don't own it. Not really. I RENT it from the city in which I live, the city collecting rents in the form of REAL ESTATE TAX. The Left will argue that I'm paying tax in order to maintain community roads, schools, police, fire, etc., but if that were true everyone in my city would pay the SAME tax for these things. We don't. The people in the Section 8 housing a few miles away, don't pay any Real Estate taxes. Their kids go to school on my dime, the police protect them on my dime, if their apartment catches fire, the firefighters I pay for answer the call. And through my federal income tax dollars I also get to pay for their house. In fact, the only thing I get for my $1K plus/month is I can tell people they can't park in my driveway. But I suspect, if someone really pushed it, the city in which I live might not back me up.
Mr. Tapia obviously hasn't heard of the old American adage "if the shoe fits, wear it."
Wanna hear something ridiculous?
I live on oceanfront.
A nor'easter destroyed our sand dune last year.
I started investigating how to restore the dune.
i called the city, telling them I wanted to build a toe wall, then buy sand and cover it up.
Nope. Have to get a permit for the wall.
Okay, then I'll just buy truckloads of sand and dump them in front of the house, then planet the dune.
Nope, have to get a permit.
What does that entail?
Well, hire a contractor.
Then a lawyer.
It ought to take about six months.
What did I say? Thanks, pal, you just saved me a boatload of money.
PS I have flood insurance.
PPS. You guys help pay for it.
Thanks.
You are welcome.
How do you handle the smell?
Ireland. There's an Irish problem in the Pecos Valley.
What happened to the right of a property owner to chase off drunks that want to 'swim' on the property?
Maybe he don't like another man rubbing his rhuebarb…
My uncle had a ranch in the upper Pecos Valley and he never had any problems with his neighbors. That was after being a cowboy, then race horse trainer most of his life in NM and AZ. Probably helped.
Illegal would be Chinese, drunk would be Amish.
He's a rich gringo. He must be put in his place.
He's a good actor, seems likable. His politics seem irrelevant to this hassle.
A honest rancher is completely another thing…and that he worked the area, which means he had the contacts and associations that are so valued here…(similar to my No.4 comment)…
I don't have any problems here, either…my birth certificate is from Sandia Base, back when the Army owned half of Kirtland AFB…I can speak and understand Spanish, and I work outside enough to meet the look…
Poor Val…he's an outsider, he has money, and talks rather than works…three strikes before we even get to the Hollywood look and the poor choices of words…
Albuquerque seized the bull by the horns, and is aggressively bulldogging it down, ESPECIALLY since they killed the "sanctuary city" policy recently…
The drivers still suck, though…
I know! I can't believe the ACLU is doing something I actually agree with. Snowball fights for Hitler and Mussolini tonight!
I concur. And it's not just the land grant issue, it's the people who sold huge swaths of land that had been in families for generations for a fraction of the current value. Now the refrain is the land was "stolen" from their families now that it's going to 30K and up an acre.
Don't get me wrong, I love it here and I wouldn't have bought 50 acres in Taos county if I didn't but you have to cultivate a pretty thick skin pretty damned fast. Last names, family and political connections mean a lot more than the rule of law.
I routinely tell people who are interested in moving here to keep a low profile, find out who the power brokers are, get to know them and don't try to change things here to the way they were from wherever they left.
Kilmer's property, if I'm not mistaken, is in New Mexico, not Texas.
You're right, but it's sweet to see liberals' surprise when the laws, rules, regulations, and nitpicking they advocate come back to bite them in the rear. It's always a bite I hope wakes them up–see Paul Rodriguez.
LOL!
I'm not saying he's a raging lefty, but I thought I remember reading comments of his that would indicate that he identifies Democrat, if not raging lefty. That being the case, all I'm saying is that I hope people like him, when they actuall see Statism in action AGAINST THEMSELVES, would help him wake up to the fact that maybe voting Democrat is not a good idea. Under the founding principles, he would be having no such problems.
That depends. if they just got out of county the smell really isn't that bad. The county has a very good delousing program.
Now the state facilities are another story…………….
LOL good stuff
It's very simple: the far left doesn't believe in borders, nor do they believe in property.
Nice to see a fellow New Mexican on the boards…
I'm down here in Los Lunas, myself…
Interesting blend here…a little of this, a little of that…schools named after war heroes, but a bit of machine politics…keeps life interesting…
Patrick_Ross: "It's very simple: the far left doesn't believe in borders, nor do they believe in property."
Except, of course, the property that the Government owns and allows the citizens to "rent."
Think "sharecropper."
Think "serf."
Right, dcase.
I've been to that area a whole lotta times.
How completely appropriate! Great comment.
Too bad the Marxists aren't logical.
Absolutely, and do you think for a second that the trespassers would not sue Kilmer at the drop of a hat – if ANYTHING happened to them?
I don't know Val Kilmer's politics, but I am on his side in this fight. I never thought I'd see the day that I felt the ACLU was doing a good thing, but Kilmer is in the right on this.
If he is a Closet Conservative, I say, "Val, step out of that closet and bring your talent to our side – like the mighty Jon Voigt has done."
If he is a Hollywood Limousine Liberal, I say, "You people sing the same socialistic song UNTIL something bites YOU in the fanny."
Whenever people like Tapia cry racism over complaints about illegal aliens and drunk drivers, it's an admission to the obvious…that most illegal aliens and drunk drivers are in fact ethnically Mexican.
He's a =famous= white guy. Hitching their wagon to a star and all.
Fight it Val!
I loved you in Real Genius!
I'm willing to overlook Batman Forever.
; )
Once again shame on the ALCU. Those HOA 'shave way too much power. No estate should have the right to refuse people from living on their property if they have the money. If you are black, poor, and have your family members living with you it shouldn't matter.
Kilmer may be wrong about a bunch of things- but not this…
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