Single Moms and NAMBLA
by Bob HamerWith a lot of smiles and an occasional out loud laugh, I read Ann Coulter’s latest book “Guilty.” Once again with her no-holds barred writing style she takes on some of America’s most sacred cows. You want controversy? How about a chapter titled, “Victim of a Crime? Thank a Single Mother.” As only Ann can do, she backs up her allegations with numerous, hard-to-refute statistics. Even considering Sir Winston Churchill’s quote, “Statistics are like a drunk with a lamppost: used more for support than illumination,” Ann’s argument is compelling.
I’m not a sociologist, a criminologist, or any other type of “ologist,” but I bring to the table twenty-six years of street experience as a special agent with the Federal Bureau of Investigation. During my career, I worked organized crime, gangs, terrorism, and child exploitation. I’ve seen society at its best and its worst, and I often viewed it from the inside. Many of my twenty-six years were spent undercover. I have successfully posed as a contract killer, drug dealer, fence, international arms dealer, degenerate gambler, and white collar criminal. But it was my last assignment, playing the role of a pedophile, that opened my eyes to a societal problem going beyond what Ann discusses in her book.
I spent three years infiltrating the North American Man/Boy Love Association. NAMBLA is real and not just some episodic joke on South Park or The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. NAMBLA is an underground network of men who are sexually attracted to boys and seek to justify their attraction.
On December 2, 1978, in response to what some activists claim to have been a witch hunt of twenty-four men arrested for child pornography and the statutory rape of boys, a meeting was held at the Community Church in Boston. About thirty men mobilized that evening and formed NAMBLA.
The express purpose of the organization is to abolish age-of-consent laws and legalize consensual sex between men and boys. In reality, this group, hiding behind the First Amendment, uses the secret meetings as a networking opportunity to reinforce among themselves their criminal passions. I know because I was invited into the inner sanctum. I attended meetings, participated in their pen pal program, wrote for their magazine, and was asked twice to serve on the steering committee, their governing body. Not once during my three-year membership was there any effort to lobby any political figure at any level of government to seek to abolish or even to modify the age-of-consent laws. There was no talk of hiring a paid lobbyist in Washington; there was no organized letter writing campaign; there was no endorsement of candidates. For all intents and purposes these men meet to network with other child molesters on where and how to find and seduce boys. We proved that when an FBI-orchestrated sting operation netted eight members of what one defendant called the group’s “inner circle.”
During my membership I corresponded with approximately 165 members and met face-to-face with about three dozen. The membership ran the socio-economic gamut. I met men with advanced degrees and those who were high school dropouts; Mensa members and the barely literate; married and single; wealthy and destitute. What they all shared was a need and desire to be around like-minded men seeking to legitimize their sexual attraction to boys.
I never met Charles Jaynes, the NAMBLA member convicted of the brutal murder of Jeffrey Curley and now serving a life sentence. He was the exception. All of the men with whom I dealt were “persuasion predators.” They didn’t sneak into homes in the dead of night and abduct sleeping boys from their beds. Their tactics were much more subtle. One member, a former special education teacher, who as a result of our investigation was sentenced to thirty years, admitted to molesting sixty to seventy boys and “grooming” another 200. Like most members, he cherished the opportunity to develop a relationship with a boy, attempting to legitimize that relationship by calling it “boy love” or “intergenerational sex” or “Greek love.” In my discussions and correspondence with these members one thing stood out: They targeted the lonely, the emotionally empty, the hurting boy. Those boys seeking affirmation and attention from a father-figure were especially vulnerable. Grooming was like a courting process. It might begin with a look, then a compliment, a conversation lavishing praise and establishing a common connection, and finally a trust.
I am often asked how we can protect our children. There is no magic formula for identifying a molester. There may be clues, but they are not foolproof. We cannot prove a negative. We can prove a person is a child molester. We cannot prove he is not. But Ann, let me expand on what you have said. I know you have been attacked for your chapter on single mothers and of course, there are exceptions to most rules, but single moms (and married moms and dads) let me give one piece of advice that Ann didn’t render. Based upon my three year affiliation with these child molesters, I observed one thing: Not one boy who came from a home with a strong, loving father figure was successfully targeted by a persuasion predator.
Protection may be that simple…a boy needs a loving father.





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181 Comments
I await the 1st liberal to use this anecdote in support of gay marriage ("If one father is good, two must be better!")
There are reasons that kids from two-parent homes usually fare better emotionally, socially, psychologically, and yes, there are always exceptions. On the whole however, kids are going to take a lot of cues from both parents regarding gender roles, relationships and conflict resolution. They will also have two adults caring for and protecting them.
Kids need and want structure, and they need and want adults' approval. We should all hope our society's kids are getting that structure and approval from the right sources: involved and loving parents.
Not one boy who came from a home with a strong, loving father figure was successfully targeted by a persuasion predator.
Mr. Hamer, bless you for your courage and the work you have done to stop this. Thank you so much.
Thanks for your insight into this group…I wonder why more steps have not been taken to expose them and bring on public outrage? My fear is that as we have seen more things that were once agreed upon as perversion become more accepted in society, this too will gradually be seen in a more tolerant light. And that is a horrifying thought…
Wow, that's a heavy truth. Or a heavy statement, if people want to debate it.
Thanks for all that you've done, Bob. I'm look forward to reading your book.
God bless you, Bob. I accidentally had a son so beautiful that he started to be targeted by gay men at the age of thirteen. (Things are better now that he's twenty.) Gay men are molested by older men and then they, too, become predators of young boys. Gay men approach, groom, and attempt to take the place of a loving father. Luckily my son already had a loving father, so he wasn't available as prey.
Yeah, yeah, not all gay men, et. cetera. But lots of them. Lots. That's why we don't let them be Boy Scouts. Or Catholic priests, any more.
So, if we take the Ann Coulter single mom metric as gospel, does that mean the longer Bristol Palin goes without marrying Levi, the more likely it is that Trip will grow up to be a hooligan or get molested? Seriously, why aren't those two wacky kids married yet, it only takes twenty minutes at the courthouse.
Hmmm, I adore Sarah Palin! Yet I have the same damned response to Bristol's pregnancy as you do. The thing is, Sarah and Todd were married at a courthouse themselves. So it's not like Bristol doesn't know that's an option. I don't get it.
Not every single mom is that way by choice and I really feel for those women. They're fighting such long odds and most cases doing the best they can. I would not begin to judge these women.
As for those who are single moms by choice, I believe they should be made aware of the drawbacks, and not have it sugar-coated for the sake of "political correctness."
I generally agree with you, but must say that when fathers are as involved with Boy Scouts as my experience has shown, there is little to no opportunity for courting by homosexuals. Every meeting attended by my son was chaperoned by at least two or three other parents, both fathers and mothers. Maybe we're now of the generation where we simply cannot trust anyone. What a shame.
Excellent piece, Bob. Must have been the most repulsive undercover duty imaginable. Thanks for your good work.
Very eye opening piece, Bob. Thanks for this, and your service.
Another one of ACLU's causes they champion, no doubt. Sad and complacent we've become.
This made me cry, and made me thankful for my husband who is a strong, loving father. So much pain that these boys experience–needless!
if you want to drag bristol palin into this, i'll just drop the name Frank Marshal Davis.
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. Your last line brought tears to my eyes. I am so thankful that my son has a good Daddy and my heart aches for the little boys (and girls) who don't.
"Of course. A father makes all the difference in the world."
–Roy Hobbs
Crash, you are funny! In the biting wit category of funny, that is.
Great article Bob. I'm amazed you could take this for three years… you must have a strong stomach. Thanks for doing what you did! As an attorney, I've met people who did time for these sorts of things and it made me sick (and very, very angry) just talking to them.
Have you read Ann's book? She's not attacking all single moms. Widows and most divorcees are left alone. She is commenting on the fact that more well off women are opting to be mothers without a husband and that it is giving off bad signals to other, maybe not as well off women that if you want a baby you shouldn't let things like a husband or father-figure get in your way.
A family member of mine is a single mom by choice, and for a while we were worried. Thankfully her own father has stepped up to be a strong presence in her son's life. Facts are facts, boys, and girls as well, need a strong male figure around.
Bob, thanks for the column. This has been a problem for years plus the invention of the Internet has made it even worse. And just because some of us don't like to lay it at the doorstep of the single parent home or abusive family home and the decay of the moral character of this country, not to mention the infiltration of the church and schools. It is what it is. But the ultimate responsibility falls on those who prey on our children and those who blindly defend them. If someone is a pedophile they will try to work where the kids are. That NAMBLA group is just a cover for pedophiles and we all know it.
P.S. to HMMMM, Nice cheap shot. glad to see someone here score a p.o.s. political point
I spent 20 years in gay lifestyle and it has been my experience that most of the men have poor relationships with their father and very domineering mothers. It is part biological due to sensitive temperment mixed with unmet needs at home. It is a compensation to fill a void much like alchoholism.
Actually, Bristol said in her interview that she's waiting to get married while she gets her stuff together. You know what, maybe she realizes that teenage shotgun marriages are MORE likely to break up than the normal 50% American heterosexual divorce rate, and doesn't want to deal with that. I'm looking forward to how some in the abstinence only crowd will react to her quote that such a goal is "unrealistic".
Of course, Bristol probably knows in the back of her mind that Mommy and Daddy have the coin to help her pay all of the enormous bills that having a child brings.
It's not a cheap shot. Coulter opened that door with her "single moms are the bane of existence" argument. Bristol Palin happens to be a high profile single mom. Considering Sarah Palin used her kids as political props all the time, Bristol is fair game here.
That being said, Bristol's interview was pretty interesting, and I'll be pretty curious how the righteous right will spin some of what she said.
Thanks for your undercover work, Mr. Hamer. I unfortunately had to learn far too much about pedophiles after discovering my former roommate surfing child porn on my computer. Thankfully, he's in prison now. The only drawback is that I still don't have my computer back–not that I want it anymore. I just don't have the stomach to delve into that world.____And I guess I should point out, no matter how close of a friend recommends someone as a roommate, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS do a background check. Suffice to say that I'm far less trusting of anyone now.
This story is about the problem of pedophilia. He did start out by mentioning Ann Coulter’s book. You brought up Bristol Palin’s name. You may be right about her kid. I don’t know. But the way you put it in here read to me like a cheap shot. After all he didn't say all single mom homes, some of them are successful. But my single family home wasn't successful at keeping me safe and I know of too many others that weren't either. You can read into that what you want.
Sounds like you did God's work. Thanks for your efforts. Society and our country is because of them.
Sounds like you did God's work. Thanks for your efforts. Society and our country is better because of them.
Bristol Palin is a person, not a target.
Why would conservatives spin anything? Leftists tend to go through wild contortions to defend their own. Gloria Steinem and her "one free grope" rule regarding Bill Clinton comes immediately to mind. Conservatives, not so much. I haven't read the interview, and I don't think I will. I'm really not interested in what Bristol Palin has to say—because she's a kid.
This reply post is to this reply and should have been posted here but was posted to your original post. So here it is again in it's proper place.
This story is about the problem of pedophilia. He did start out by mentioning Ann Coulter’s book. You brought up Bristol Palin’s name. You may be right about her kid. I don’t know. But the way you put it in here read like a cheap shot to me. After all he didn't say all single mom homes, some of them are successful. But my single family home wasn't successful at keeping me safe and I know of too many others that weren't either. You can read into that what you want
Nothing can replace the presence of a loving, mature, proper father in a child's life. HOWEVER, plenty of things can replace the presence of a dopey teenaged "father" who didn't pull out in time
Some of those things might, I imagine, include (comparitively) well-off, politically-connected Grandma and Grandpa's cash flow; AND the fact that the Republican party in Alaska and otherwise are so heavily invested in Sarah Palin as a fundraising figure that her and the brood will be WELL taken care of for the forseeable future. After all, you can't have the "new face" of Family-Values-As-A-Wedge-Issue making speeches with "Bristol's Baby Going Hungry!!!" splashed across The Enquirer…
Thank you for your work in smoking out these animals.
Your experience investigating this dreadful thing is enlightening Mr. Hamer. My suspicions confirmed. I'm at the age where I can remember many Mothers raising a child alone who did a credible job – "War Widows." However they possessed a moral fiber lacking in the present generation of shameless hussies.
Hey, "Hmmmmmm" … Bristol Palin is sooo 2008. Can't we move on? She has nothing whatsoever to do with this article. "Trent" should be by any minute now with a cute comment about "Is-rael".
she is only showing the statistical reinforcement of the notion, just like, statistically, more abortion leads to less crime, its a statistical fact (read freakanomics). Now what you do with that information…
It's interesting to hear this side of it…
No. See, the "perversions" you are drawing a (false) parallel to are things like homosexuality and female dominion of her own sexuality. And while female sexual empowerment is definitely linked to gay rights movements, neither is linked to pedophilia, or bestiality, or anything of the sort. See, all of these arenas are about pushing boundaries with what is acceptable for two consenting adults to do in private.
This group, and bestiality fans, and necrophiliacs, and what have you are diametrically opposed to the feminist and gay rights movements. See, this second group is not about pushing what two consenting adults can do together without stigma, it is about pushing RAPE. NAMBLA is a group dedicated to RAPE. Feminism, gay rights groups, ect are dedicated to deepening the fundamental sanctity of CONSENT. Thus, the further gay rights groups and feminist groups become entrenched in society, the harder it will be for a group like NAMBLA to be seen as acceptable.
He's busy cleaning his mom's basement.
Frankly, it wasn't necessary for the author of the post to mention Ann Coulter's book at all, given that its connection to NAMBLA is tangential at best. Too many of the BH entries try to be ominbus rants and seemingly include disparate talking points in order to maintain their conservative rants. It's probably the worst habit of the bloggers here.
Frankly, Ann Coulter's wildly over the top rhetoric over single mothers leaves itself open to "what about single mom Bristol Palin" retorts, which again has absolutely nothing to do with NAMBLA.
But, if we're going to stick to the topic at hand, child molestation doesn't restrict itself to kids in single parent households. My wife is a psychologist, and she has in the past dealt with many children who were molested by stepfathers, uncles, and other male relatives. So, the premise of the post that if you have a great Dad, then your child won't be molested isn't always that way in reality.
Yay for monolithic depictions of minority groups! They're inherently subhuman because they're different from you!
Wow, that's … uh stupid. So we can hold anything done by any leftist against the entire left huh? Like Stalin killing all those people can be held against George Clooney? How about Clinton's overseas money, I guess Obama's foreign policy is hypocritical because of that, right? Of course, Hillary's a hypocrite, claiming to speak for women with Ted Kennedy's driving history… Gee, I see now why you're leftist. It's fun being stupid!
Bob –
Taking this even further – I believe most of our crime and be attributed to the lack of a strong loving father influence. I am sure that gangs exist to try and get that sense of belonging. I am sure that you could write a book on living on the edge in the underbelly.
I have felt too the sense you guys must have for feeling like you have a finger in the hole in the dike – how much crime exists even with our efforts – but on the other hand you should take comfort in knowing there are some boys whose lives would have been shattered but for your efforts.
If your toss these NAMBLA "men" into the general prison populations things would work out for the best, I would predict…
Frankly, it wasn't necessary for you to make any response whatsoever. Yet you still did. Go figure.
By the way, with respect to your final paragraph, no one is arguing that there's a 1:1 correlation with no exceptions. It would be like if I said "Injecting drugs without using sterile needles increases your odds of catching HIV" and you responded with "So the premise of the post is that if you use new needles, you won't get HIV." Hopefully you'll have enough logical reasoning skill to see the fallacy there.
Oh, and because I just can't resist…doesn't your therapist know you fantasize that you've married her?
Mr. Hamer, I would think infiltrating some white-supremacist motorcycle gang, gun/drug-runner group, or a violent separatist/terrorist cell would have been easier to stomach than being among these NAMBLA guys. I would have felt SO dirty after spending time with these awful men. I think ANYONE who would advocate having sex with children – boys OR girls – is just BEYOND creepy. Attention has recently been brought on the criminals who coerce girls and young women – usually from Third World and eastern European countries – into the international sex trade. Like the NAMBLA members, these creeps are their own special form of hackle-raising vileness and depravity.
By his own actions, a pedophile shows his subhumanity.
Uh, Hunter D, you're defending pedophiles. Just FYI.
I meant Queer people.
"On the whole however, kids are going to take a lot of cues from both parents regarding gender roles, relationships and conflict resolution."
But, if that child is gay taking gender cues from straight parents isn't really going to serve them anymore than a straight child taking gender cues from gay parents. Other than that and the opening line, I agree with EVERYTHING in your post. Every child can use two parents.
"this too will gradually be seen in a more tolerant light." There is NO slippery slope to acceptance of pedophilia. It's a myth. NAMBLA is not supported by the gay community at large and never will be.
Wow, you must live in Pedophile Central. Scary. I'm glad we stopped letting gay men become Boy Scout [sic] Leaders and Catholic priests.
Except for the fact that not all gay men are effeminate, nor are all lesbians "butch".
":still living with his mother" … that's old material you used from a month ago in the "Proposition 8" thread.
Vince,
I have no desire to be insulting to you but I can not let pass that you are making an unsubstantiated claim. The fact that 'gay' children exist is far from settled. The causes and reasons behind homosexuality are still being hotly debated. Is it possible that incorrect 'gender cues' could even be part of an explanation?
Please understand that this is in no way an attack on you or on homosexuals but your statement is just not verifiable.
Yeah leave Bristol out of this.
Men who wish to have sexual contact with boys are not gay. They are pedophiles. Homosexual men are attracted to other adult MEN. The ones who are attracted to much younger men are no different than the predatory older straight men who play on young women's daddy issues. Let's not confuse the issue here. There are PLENTY of adult men preying on girls and young women. And as we've seen, there are adult women preying on boys and young men. There is also some evidence to suggest that the majority of male pedophiles who molest boys are self-described heterosexuals, with wives and families. It allows them to hide their sickness.
When we villify the innocent we erode our own morality.
Hunter D,
Way to read KimmyG's mind. I was in no way able to understand so specifically what she was referring to. You are awesome.
Let's try this one: I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 100……..
This was a fascinating article. My understanding, though, is that NAMBLA has become less organized and dwindled in numbers over the years, especially as society is more tolerant and/or accepting of adult homosexual relationships. I think these are stories that need to be told/heard, but I'm also put off by how they feed the fires of people's fears. There are so many people that read stuff this subject matter and don't understand that homosexuality and pedophilia are mutally exclusive of each other. But, I guess all you can do is put it out there and people are going to infer what they will.
Thanks for clearing that up! My brother is more sensitive than I am and he turned out straight. Go figure!
Bob —
What do you think? Could another consequence of the failing economy be this: that as a family's finances dwindle, parents — be they couples or single — are going to be forced to take on more jobs; therefore, "not home" for their children. Could the failing economy mean that opportunities for pedophiles might be on the rise?
Megan's Law is a great preventative measure, but perhaps parents will be too exhausted and holding down too many hours to even know who's just moved into the neighborhood? Solutions? Perhaps we'll naturally revert back into "tribes?" That we care for and watch out for… eachother? Could children's lost innocence be the Call to Action? (Sidebar: we've seen this with Nadya Suleman; i.e., that the innocence of her children is what's created an even greater outrage about her actions?)
Or how about this: that the inherent belief held by many, if not, that many human beings are simply "hard-wired" to protect and defend innocent children…could this be a single, strong and constant MOTIVE that might give hope for our society staying civilized to SOME point? But wait a minute: isn't the extreme praise and celebration of children as "innocent" and "pure" one of the great red-flags/hallmarks of pedophiles-in-disguise?
Many thanks for a great article, Bob!
As a Roman Catholic, it did not escape my notice that what was called the "priest pedophile" crisis was actually – when you observed the data on the victims — one of homosexual ephebophilia. The victims tended to be pubescent or just post-pubescent males with the largest part of the data on a bell curve to peak at about 15 to 17 years of age. Also, a disturbingly large majority of the boys had no father living in the home when "Father Bob" took him under his wing. Moms were relieved that their sons had such a "positive" male figure with whom to bond not realizing the nature of Father's interest.
Come on ladies! Why is it so difficult for us to say that 5000 years of history is correct and our puny little 40 year experiment in free love is WRONG? WE NEED OUR DADDIES! WE NEED OUR HUSBANDS.
As a Roman Catholic, it did not escape my notice that what was called the "priest pedophile" crisis was actually – when you observed the data on the victims — one of homosexual ephebophilia. The victims tended to be pubescent or just post-pubescent males with the largest part of the data on a bell curve to peak at about 15 to 17 years of age. Also, a disturbingly large percentage of the boys had no fathers living in the home when "Father Bob" took them under his wing. Moms were relieved that their sons had such a "positive" male figure with whom to bond not realizing the nature of Father's interest.
Come on ladies! Why is it so difficult for us to say that 5000 years of history is correct and our puny little 40 year experiment in free love is WRONG? WE NEED OUR DADDIES! WE NEED OUR HUSBANDS.
I think you're trying to be obtuse, but you are actually not a million miles off. Her situation is not optimal. Her child is likely to be disadvantaged without a father in the house. Maybe the Palins' family situation will provide her with forms of security that most of the children referenced in the article don't have, but who said that single parenthood isn't optimal unless it's Bristol Palin? Parenthood would be easier for me if my four year old argued as simplistically as you do.
Peter, I was replying to HMMM and not to you. If my four year old rebutted my arguments like you did to HMMM, then I might be in trouble. Well said!
The actual BH posting concluded with "Not one boy who came from a home with a strong, loving father figure was successfully targeted by a persuasion predator." If that's not arguing a 1:1 correlation with no exceptions, then it seems to be arguing something fairly close.
Either way, it was an atrociously written article.
Sorry Sarah, but men wishing to have sex with males–even if they are children–are homosexuals. If you look at the percentage of homosexuals in the population and the percentage of boys being mollested vs. girls, you will see that homosexuals are much more likely to mollest than heterosexual males.
a pedophile in my neighborhood zoomed in on single moms with young boys and absent fathers. he molested one boy till he was 13 and then was moving in on the younger brother who was 8. the 13 year old finally told mom and the man is now in prison. but what amazed me was the stupidity of the mother. she let her son go on camping trips, overnites and when he would come over to her home, he would head straight into the boy's bedroom…
how could she not know …
Vince my friend, you just did it again!!! Setting aside whether homosexual behavior is right or wrong, a generation ago that lifestyle was viewed by many (most?) in the same way as those other behaviors are viewed today. Now many (most?) are at the very least tolerant of the lifestyle. How can you say that there can definitively be no 'slippery slope' in connection with what is considered acceptable sexual activity?
In that same breath, why not go back to letting priests get laid? Chastity hasn't always been the rule…
And for what it's worth, the current concept of family is also new. It's not 5000 years old. Not even close. Hell, our definition of lover and marriage are fairly recent too!
Yes, well, officially you're right, of course. But I've been to many gatherings where gay men were present, and after a bit of talking, the vast majority admitted to wanting to seduce straight young boys into their world.
Hunter D, I disagree. Fist of all, you assume to define what I included in perversion (as Krebstar noted), and I do not see, as you stated, 'female sexual empowerment' as a perversion. I do, however, see homosexuality as something that springs from unhealthy circumstances (check out http://www.narth.com/ for more information on that subject), and there was good reasoning to have it labeled taboo in past generations.
Rape is defined as the forcing of sexual activity on an unwilling participant, and currently includes the term 'or incapable of valid consent'. This is an acceptable definition in these current times, but if the moral compass continues to shift, how long before the 'consent' of a child will be enough to justify this perversion? These children, as the author stated, are groomed, and their minds are distorted into believing that this is an acceptable expression of love..all the while it is deeply damaging them. But given the direction the post-modern world is taking us, what a child thinks they want and 'consents' to (and certainly what perverted adults will support) may be seen as 'truth in their mind', and given acceptance where their should be outrage. I have already seen this 'logic' when people defend bestiality, so I know I'm not just being paranoid.
Men who wish to have sexual contact with boys are gay pedophiles. Women who wish to have sexual contact with girls are gay pedophiles. They're not any more or less disgusting than straight pedophiles, but don't try to bury the truth about gay pedophiles.
What does any of this have to do with Hollywood?
You weren't insulting, Krebstar. But 'gay' children come out of all kinds of scenarios. Poster Guillermo (I can't find his post now) purports that male homosexuality (I don't think he says anything of lesbians) "happens" to men with a biological disposition to sensitivity cultivated by overbearing mothers and poor relationships with fathers. While, there are plenty of gay men who have arisen from this scenarios, there are plenty other gay men who have arisen from single father, single mother, healthy Christian-opposite-gender two-parent households, as well as a variety of possibilities in between. That homosexuality's primary existence is due to being socialized, conditioned and/or learned is, well, not of my opinion. But, you're still considering it, which is fine. I'm not going to fault you. We just see it differently.
I believe that we're all born with our own personal set of varying predispositions (related to intelligence, talent, emotions, sexualty, etc) and the environment we grow up in shapes them. That's how we end up the way we do, IMHO.
Sorry for chasing you around this thread Vince. I guess I'm just getting a kick out of your replies.
Mutually exclusive of each other? Meaning that no pedophiles are homosexual? Dude, I get that you're fighting for your team but don't you think you're pushing it a little?
I 'inferred' that these monstrous predators don't do so well where the boys have a strong father figure in the homes. Why did this lead you into a defense of homosexuality?
This a party line blog. "perversion" is a codeword and we all know it. And, I guessed right that she was referring to homosexuality, which is linked to feminism. So my point stands.
Excellent change of subject. What do you think about the actual comment she made?
If there was a slippy slope between social acceptance of healthy, adult homosexual relationships and pedophilia, how is that NAMBLA's power and numbers have dwindled and not gained momentum?
Bob Hamer ~
When did you spend these three years undercover with NAMBLA? I'm really curious. NAMBLA is such a joke of an organization. I had never even heard about it until I became an adult in the mid-to-late 90's. Even then, it was a lame.
Okay, I'll rescind my hope that you had logical reasoning skill.
I also think you missed the all-important "persuasion" aspect of the "persuasion predator." There are other types of predators, which can attack all types of people. But generally speaking, it is true that you can only persuade someone to become a victim if there is some kind of hurt in his/her life that you exploit, and there are few (if any) hurts more painful to a young boy than the abandonment of his father.
Any student of human nature ought to be able to see this.
I first heard of NAMBLA a generation ago while watching the Phil Donahue show. Must have been about '79. I had no idea they were still around. They've certainly not been effective as a lobbying force.
Recall that things have been both straighter and more decadent than they are today (ancient Rome, for example).
The only lifestyles that are more acceptable today than 30 years ago, that I can think of anyway, are homosexual couples (or families with homosexual parents) and single parent families. I don't see a slippery slope problem; maybe I'm not looking in the right place?
I gathered that
But then, I'm not liberal so I'm able to use common sense, plus I don't have to interpret everything through a prism of racism/sexism/anti-me-ism or whatnot.
Similar to what AvantiBev said, it's not like the 60s generation was the first generation in the history of mankind to "experiment." There's a reason that traditions become tradition. Because they work. They've withstood the test of time.
Pedophilia has just about as much to do with homosexuality as it does heterosexuality.
If you will pardon the diversion from the topic at hand, I would like to respond to the quote given by Hmmm. Bristol is saying that abstinence is "unrealistic?" I'm not quite sure that I'm following. I have not read the interview so I am going to extrapolate. Please correct me if I am mistaken. If Bristol is saying that the idea of abstinence or teaching abstinence effectively is unrealistic then this shows her immaturity.
It reminds me of my little brother. When my mother asked him to clean his disaster area of a room he responded with the same type of sentiment. Him cleaning his room was not unrealistic. It was only unrealistic to him because he didn't want to give the effort to clean it. …
…It is the same for abstinence. For Bristol (if she in fact did say it was unrealistic) to say that it is unrealistic to practice abstinence is just her trying to justify her own lack of self control. Yes, abstinence requires a great deal of self control, but it is certainly not impossible, only difficult. I would pose, though, that the same biological forces that cause it to be difficult today caused it to be difficult hundreds of years ago so I don't see why today should be any different.
I'm not saying this as a person who can remember when it wasn't cool to be a teen and pregnant. I'm only 22. But I just wanted to comment on that (I am part of the 'abstinence only' and the 'righteous right' crowd affectionately mentioned on this thread). I agree with the person who said they didn't listen to her because she was just a kid. That is entirely correct. And the above quoted statement gives wordy evidence of that fact.
You're right about our differing views, but you stated your viewpoint in such an adult manner that I hope I get a chance to read many more of your posts. Regardless of any differences in belief we may have you can be sure that you have a respectful acquaintance on the other end of the internet. Thanks for the reply!
[...] Here is an important story from Big Hollywood about NAMBLA — The National Man-Boy Love Association and “persuasion preda…. [...]
I was raised by a single mother and I was never raped by a pedophile. WOOOO for anecdotal evidence!
You may be right. I still submit that homosexuality is viewed by many in the way you describe it. As a healthy, alternative lifestyle. It wasn't viewed that way a generation ago. Is all the evidence in or is society more accepting of what was once considered deviant? That's my point.
Again, I don't have statistics and specific knowledge. You might be right. Are you saying that heterosexual pedophilia (and, of course, we now use that word to describe what used to be called pederasty, right?) and homosexual pedophilia occur at the same rate?
Now, if you're brother had been biologically designed through a billion years of (possibly guided) evolution to make his room messy as his prime directive, then your parallel…well, it would still be a straw man.
Humans are designed to have sex. That is the biological meaning of life. To reproduce, a lot. That's why it feels so good. Simply saying "Don't" will not override a billion years of instinct. Especially because the overly promiscuous sexual activities of many youths is a symptom, not a sickness in and of itself. These kids are acting out, so saying "don't" REALLY won't work in this context.
I am not sure that I agree with either your reasoning or your conclusion. Nor am I certain that children are born gay, become gay, or a combination thereof. But that's a wonderful set of arguments which should be ongoing and empirically verified. I have a much simpler thought. I don't care why these "men" want to have or succeed in having sex with boys. These are children who are being sexually and emotionally exploited. That means I strongly oppose these adults' sexual activity whether it's boys, girls, puppies or kittens. It's wrong, It's evil. And it deserves neither therapy nor tolerance nor lengthy debate on root causes, but the severest punishment that the law allows. I should also point out that consent is not the issue. it is informed consent which is the issue. Children are not capable of informed consent, and that is why we have multiple laws to protect them from harm.
You're right. I used the wrong phrase. Informed consent is the issue.
That said, these men should be studied. Not so that we can fix them, but rather so that we can prevent the next generation of men who might be susceptible to this sickness from ever hurting a child.
This is Just a thought… I decided to sign up for a profile. Forgive the confusion (and they wouldn't let me choose the name "Just a thought…").
I was not implying that that we are not chemically designed (or evolved or whatever) to procreate. I was simply saying that her comment was showing her immaturity. It is possible to have self control over that chemical reaction. People have chemical urges to do many things but it is possible to resist. She was just giving an excuse because she didn't have the self control (or didn't want it). Either way, to say it is simply "unrealistic" is simply an immature statement.
This is the same tactic gays use to try and normalize their immoral, perverted behavior. NAMBLA has been doing the same. With the libs, aclu, and immoral democRATS, these demons will eventually tire out wuaay, no backbone people to aceept this as normal and ok and will be seeing laws trying to be passed for man.boy marriage sonn thereafter. Think this is impossibe? gays did the same thing when they were looked on as sick and perverted and now most think of it as normal. NOT.
How in the hell do you go from Pedophilia to Bristol Palin in this same thread? Regardless of how you feel about Sarah, Bristol is still a kid. The fact that she's had to endure the scorn & ridicule from the media cesspool, even though she owned up to her mistake, is beyond bad behavior. These #&^(s should be ashamed – how far they've sunk..
The first time I heard about this Nambla garbage was on Howard Stern. I thought it was schtick until O'reilly brought it up. Joe, I don't know how you survived amongst these miscreants without putting them out of their misery. Glad you tried to do something. Wrong is wrong, no matter how many excuses you have. In every case!
So glad that people like Ann Coulter have the guts to speak (write) the TRUTH about the underpinnings of the devolution of America.
NARTH? Are you kidding me? Why don't you just link to Stormfront?
Vince, when you redefine the terms you don't need to change the laws, nor do you need to belong to an organization to help you reach goals now easily reached.
Truthfully, most man/boy predators are not , technically speaking, pedophiles. A pedophile is attracted to a PRE-adolescent child.
Most of NAMBLA's supporter's are actually Ephebophiles – those attracted to adolescents .
These are men interested in 13-17 yo boys.
When 13 yo girls are turning up pregnant and the fathers are often over 21, and NO ONE CARES ,do you really think NAMBLA has lost?
If the courts don't care when an adult man impregnates a 13 yo girl, do you think they even notice that another adult male is teaching sex to a 13 yo boy ?
Your 13 yo child can go get std treatment, birth control, and an abortion without your knowledge or consent – because they have the 'right' to their sex life.
Who do you think managed that ?
NAMBLA and their counterparts across the gender attraction aisle have won.
Our children have lost.
You can't really compare to 'hundreds of years ago' because people didn't wait as long as they do today to get married. It wasn't uncommon for women to be married while in their early teens. Abstinence until marriage isn't so hard in those circumstances.
Bristol is immature because she's young. I'm sure she's seeing lots of sexual behavior among her peers and when she says abstinence is unrealistic it's probably just a reflection of what she's seeing and hearing. I remember the same thing when I was in high school.
Abstinence is still something we should encourage, but it would certainly be easier if society didn't always tell us that we should be "realistic" and automatically jump to teaching the kids about birth control and abortion because we assume that's what they're going to do. If we didn't have the "free love" generation pushing promiscuous sex, and the "Girls Gone Wild" culture, it would be a heck of a lot easier to keep kids grounded in a good moral upbringing. Right now, it's an uphill battle all the way.
I see in this discussion again and again the purposeful incorrect use of the term pedophilia to describe what NAMBLA members are. If a victim is post pubescent or adolescent (as are a substantial percetnage of them) they are by definition not victims of pedophiles but pederasts who are in fact homosexuals.
Pedophilia is an attraction to asexual children (prepubescent) of either sex. NAMBLA members are not interested in this, they want fully functioning boys. The majority of molestations in the priesthood for example were also pederasty not pedophilia. Insofar as there are "good" gays, NAMBLA members are not them. But they are in fact homosexual or at the very least bisexual.
Until the proper understanding of these terms is used and homsexuals admit that there are true perverts in their ranks as there are in every stripe of sexuality, then these discussions will be at their heart fatally flawed.
You mean a woman who defends "Conservative Citizens Councils"?
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/32787_Ann...
I own a couple books by her and they are going out with the next garbage pickup. This woman is a justification of heterophobia, as is half this thread.
And here I thought NAMBLA was the National Association of Marlon Brando Look A Likes.
I couldn't agree more. Perhaps I am being a little too simplistic. But I would pose, though, that just because not doing something is harder than it was hundreds of years ago (due to cultural shifts), doesn't change the moral implications of the act. This, of course, would only apply if you see any moral implications of teen pregnancy and pre-marital sex. Which, I perceive by your comment, that you do (I will apologize for my assumption now if I am mistaken). ____Although I agree that Bristol's age is most likely a factor on why she made such an immature statement (however, I know many people her age who would not have made that immature assumption), I think that her immaturity was shown by the fact that she excused her lack of self-control (or want of self-control) by that statement. She was covering up for her own moral "failings" (if, in fact she does see it as a moral failing) by simply ruling any other lifestyle "unrealistic." That, unfortunately is a response that I see in people of all ages (I could cite a few government officials here, but I think you can come up with your own) and does not seem to diminish with age.
I do think there are moral issues with premarital sex and would much prefer to see my own kids abstain. The only point I was making earlier is that women today often don't marry until their 30's and many women I know don't want to be a 30-something year-old virgin. But that's another topic.
I just think that right now American culture has been so bombarded by MTV videos (the rap ones are especially heinous), shows like "Gossip Girl" (to just name a recent one) and blasé attitudes toward porn that it would be impossible for a kid to find a moral center on the subject of sex by his/her self. I think that's why the whole two-parent thing is so important, and why I agree with idea that a mom and a dad are so important in the home. (continued…)
(last comment ran too long…)
I'm willing to cut Bristol some slack on her comment because she is trying to justify something after the fact. If she didn't have the baby already, I'm sure she might voice another opinion– whether she applied it to her real life or not. I'm not trying to judge her. Being a teenager is hard. I'm sure her parents did a good job and tried to instill the right values and at the end of the day it's her mistake and her choice. The real trick for the rest of us is to try to make sure our kids have a stronger backbone on the issue.
(last comment ran too long…and is currently in moderation. What did I say?)
I'm willing to cut Bristol some slack on her comment because she is trying to justify something after the fact. If she didn't have the baby already, I'm sure she might voice another opinion– whether she applied it to her real life or not. I'm not trying to judge her. Being a teenager is hard. I'm sure her parents did a good job and tried to instill the right values and at the end of the day it's her mistake and her choice. The real trick for the rest of us is to try to make sure our kids have a stronger backbone on the issue.
Hey, if Trent gets to reuse his talking points ad nauseam, so do the rest of us in rebuttal.
Kit, right on. They are currently trying to pass a new curriculum in the local schools here that would teach 7th and 8th graders how to properly use a condemn and how to 'pleasure their partner' (http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/23373... It's the result of years of slow erosion and 'tolerance', not something out of the blue…and I don't think our children are better for any of it.
Well, I've been at gatherings of straight older men and had them confess that what they really wanted was someone 'fresh', as in eighteen year old girls. So the desire to have sex with younger people is not exclusive to gays nor a marker for perversion.
incorrect gender cues must mean…let me guess, an unfeminine mother, an unmanly father. For decades Bruno Bettelheim had the world believing and accepting that autism was caused by mothers who secretly rejected their children even when the mother herself was unaware of the rejection. The effect of course is to blame the mother and have her blame herself, search her own soul for why she was emotionally rejecting her child and causing this syndrome, and it usually related to rejecting the mothering role as an element of her proper feminine submissive role in the family. Of course Ann Coulter probably still believes that female resistance to submission is the actual cause of autism. I see this 'incorrect gender cues" as being of the same ilk and equally false and noxious.
Bettelheim killed himself some time back.
"Perversion," is, apparently, defined by society. So, who are you as an individual to say what is perverse and what is not? Homosexual pedophilia has been and excepted and celebrated part of other cultures, who are you to say that it is "perverse?"
You claim a "fundamental sanctity of CONSENT," but what makes that, or anything else, sacred? That society currently considers it so? It wasn't so long ago that obedience was considered much more sacred than consent. Why are you right and they wrong?
You seem to think that bestiality and necrophilia are perversions, but they have nothing to do with consent or rape. So how do you come to the conclusion that they are perversions? Because they aren't currently socially acceptable?
You judge others but won't allow yourself to be judged. How convenient for you.
Oh, and for the record, I think that all NAMBLA members should be rounded up and shot.
It is only through and by the concerted effort of homosexuals that traditional values are being whittled away, forcing a surface pc acceptance of that which is still considered deviant behavior.
http://real-estate-investors-resource.com/blog/20...
"correct" gender cues…oh em gee. Somewhere Jean Baudrillard is spinning in his grave.
What percentages? Where are you getting your information? It may be helpful to back up your claims with facts and statistics.
The article points out that NAMBLA is making no attempt to create political or social change, but neither did the gay rights movement until around the time of Stonewall.
Also, society is becoming more acceptant of pedophilia, just not that of the homosexual variety… yet. Look at the teacher sex scandals. If the teacher is female and "hot," it is becoming more and more difficult for T.V. pundits to point out exactly what is wrong with the relationship. Because of traditional gender roles, the boys who have been molested are often seen as "lucky" instead of "victims."
So…picture thirty years from now…homosexuals can marry in every state and being gay or bi is considered absolutely no different than being straight. What is going to happen when a "hot" male teacher molests a young boy? Are the pundits going to consider him "lucky" too?
Okay. this entire argument is predicated upon straw men and semantics, but I will humor you.
An animal is incapable of informed consent, so too is a corpse. Using either an animal or a corpse as a means of sexual gratification therefore a form of rape.
But you already understood that. Stop playing dumb. What's your point anyway? Are you saying we should go dig up some animal corpses and have at?
Scientific research is being done. There are studies looking at the possiblity of a "gay" gene. Other studies have resulted in the idea of "gay-ness" occuring as a result of environmental effects on the pregnant mother. At the same time, no one disputes the fact that the environment of the child has an impact. Many years ago, the same question was asked about many issues — nature or nurture. The answer we know today is that both play a role. My educated (in this field) guess is that this debate will end the same. Children become a combination of what nature gives them at birth and what the environment provides after their birth.
Incorrect gender cues could certainly play a role for some children. For males, that would be an older sister who got more attention for the way she acted and dressed as well as how she played. In my opinion, incorrect gender clues are very unlikely to come from the parents directly.
right on!!!
They are not that mutually exclusive. Not evey homosexual is a pedophile but half of pedophiles are homosexuals which is a much higher rate given their percentage of the population. I'm not trying to be mean or hateful but that is the truth and you should ask yourself why that is.
"their counterparts across the gender attraction aisle".
Has anyone here heard of a lesbian having sex with a child? I'll have to do some research and see if there has ever been a case reported or talked about. I have plenty of lesbian friends, and have never met one interested in "younger" females, much less children.
When you live with a relativistic world-view, you can pretty much make-up your own definitions as you go.
Some of us, however, find that there are absolutes…truths with unchanging foundations.
I'll spare you the scriptures concerning reprobates and abominations, for, even in the relativistic realm there are natural laws governed by common sense…if the parts don't fit, or belong to different species, or are of decaying flesh, than it is probably not a good idea to go there.
Thank you Bob. I'd like to see the so-called "brave" Hollywood types (are you reading this Sean?) make a movie about your story. Do you think Ashley Judd will wear a tee-shirt with "this is what an anti-nambla looks like" logo?
In the same vein, California now requires curricula condoning and confirming gay, lesbian and transgender lifestyles in grades K-12 and at least one school system in Lexington, MA has used a storybook, 'King and King', ( about two princes who fall in love and live happily ever after) in early grades. Its pure indoctrination straight out of the activists playbook.
Most men left to their own devices will perpetually seek young conquests. It is a woman's nature to encourage a man to commit to her and raise him above this childish, narcissistic behavior.
She comes on a tad to strong for my tastes…a neo-con on steroids.
However, she recently took a cheap shot at Bill Clinton which cracked me up.
It amazes me that a choice is equated to an ethnicity or disability. Having a propensity towards a behavior is not the same as acting on that urge. Having the urge to rape, commit suicide, murder, spit in someones face or act out is not the same as acting out. Practicing homosexuality is no worse then adultery, lying, cheating, killing or other attempts to deny God's sovereignty over ever life. In the end, the refusal to acknowledge God, results in the imbalance of ones life. Watching someone living in denial and acting in a self destructive manner, would be comical if the results weren't so devastating.
Well said. I learned that the hard way. It was a lot of wasted years. Speaking this kind of truth will only help people in the long run.
I'm not being dumb. I believe that you have not examined your own moral system.
Are you against blow-up dolls? They can't give consent any more than a corpse.
And why is the consent of an animal so important? We don't ask them before we kill and eat them, why ask before having sex with them?
My point is exactly what I said my point was, but I'll try to be more clear:
You espouse a morality based upon what you hold to be important while at the same time disparaging other's morality that they base on what they feel to be important. The difference is that they have a reason for what they believe, while you, more than likely, do not.
The people that you are debating with, in all probability, base their morality upon something unchaining and outside themselves, it is based on an absolute. They are able to judge themselves, society and all of history because they believe that their moral standard exists outside of those things. So they can, with conviction, say "this is right and this is wrong."
On the other hand, your morality is based upon what you or society feels to be right right now, it is based on non-absolutes. You have no standard of judgment except what you personally feel to be right or wrong (or, perhaps what society feels right or wrong). Your morality is only a matter of opinion, and how can you say that your opinion is any more valid than that of a pedophile or animal lover? Except for an accident of time, you might have been born in a place where bestiality was considered a form of worship. Would it have been okay then, or would it still be "perverted?" In the same vein, why is sex without consent wrong? Why is sex with a child wrong? "Because it just is! Okay!" is not an acceptable answer.
We live in a society that has done away with absolute morality, so by what authority can we say that anything is right or wrong?
[...] February 18, 2009 in Who Killed John Galt | Tags: FBI, NAMBLA, pedophiles There’s a very interesting post on Big Hollywood done by a former FBI agent who joined NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association) in his job as an undercover agent: Single Moms and NAMBLA [...]
I don't know where these 'gatherings' where gay men discuss their proclivities with you – a gay bar perhaps – but I am gay, homosexual or whatever you want to call it and NONE of my gay friends in any of our discussions have ever suggested an attraction to boys – EVER. The sexual predator of my youth was my heterosexually identified Uncle – a man married to a woman and a father of a child.
PREMISE:
We exist in a universe with meaning.
GIVENS:
1: we exist
2: god exists
3: anything we can conceive of god doing, god must be able to do.
Since we can conceive of rationality, god must be capable of It.
If he is capable but chooses not to use it, then everything is meaningless.
A: if god does not have a plan for us then our very existence is irrational and thus god created the universe for an irrational reason.
If god created us for an irrational reason, then it is the same as if he did not exist.
CONCLUSION 1:
god has a plan for us.
COMPLICATION:
Free will vs. Predestination
either god chooses the variables, or else they are outside of his/her control.
If they are outside of his/her control, then god is not omnipotent and thus is not god.
Therefore, anything that we do is gods will. Or everything is meaningless and our own internal volition is the best tool we have.
CONCLUSION 2:
gods existence is irrelevant because proper actions are identical with or without his/her presence.
Very simply, homosexuality is an aberration of human sexuality. There is not one single reliable indicator that it is genetic. It is a learned behavior and a perversion at that. What bothers me most is that the homosexual lobbyists deny and lie about it being a learned behavior and seek to obfuscate the issue so that the public now believes that it is an acceptable alternative lifestyle. Hopefully, one day, the truth will be revealed.
Some of you folks are out of your f!!cking mind! I start reading some of these comments about blow up dolls and morality and I think some of you are crazy. Morality is absolute. You want to debate around the edges, fine.
There have been female teachers arrested/fired recently for having sex with female students. I would google it to find the article, but I'm afraid my wife will catch me :p
Teenagers are also biologically designed to get angry and fight other males over territory and females… are you saying that expecting them to restrain themselves is so unrealistic that we should give in and teach them all how to attack each other safely?
"We know you will eventually punch someone you don't like, so when you do, please put these boxing gloves on and hit them in the body, not the head…"
Come on, kids learn how to become responsible adults by holding them to standards that are higher then their base instincts.
I'm always amused hat how government lackies have such child like faith in the efficacy and honesty of their employer. They are always the last to realize, if they care at all, that their employer is a primary engine of many social pathologies. The exploitation of children is just one example.
So you had to go "under cover" to figure out that NAMBLA was a bunch of child molesters huh? Figures. Frankly, I consider the very existence of NAMBLA to be one of the MANY indictments against our corrupt government. It may be an original thought to you Mr Hamer, but the reason that NAMBLA exist is because the powers that be in our government WANT it to exist. NAMBLA chapters regularly meet in public venues like libraries and they are never bothered. That doesn't happen by accident.
In a healthy society the meetings of NAMBLA wold be raided and the membership escorted to the nearest street lamp which they would decorate until the crows had picked the bones clean. The reason that doesn't happen is because NAMBLA has powerful protection. You're little undercover adventure Mr Hamer was nothing more than a bit of governmental make-work designed to give the appearance of action without really accomplishing much.
Ken
http://www.LaserGuidedLoogie.com
Marie, It happens, and if you'd like to get involved with CASA or any child welfare service you'd find out.
But molesters , goy or straight, don't chat about their attractions to friends who'd be horrified.
christiansoldier, there's nothing wrong with relationships between any consenting adults, regardless of what your religious leaderships has misled you to believe..
But the religious right has done so much damage that they're partly to blame for the problems today. You all hate gay people so much you ignore the 'straight' people molesting your children THEN you still blame gay folks.
Grow up.
Shocknawe,
I don't think Coulter is saying that at all. She is, I interpret, saying women who choose to raise children without fathers, are responsible for some of that child's problems. She is taking on the "Liberated" women who preach how useless men are and have convinced many women that a child doesn't need a father. She sees this as an attack on the family, and that attack does have numbers that back up how devastating this has been for children. Children need both parents. I know many well-adjusted kids who come from divorced homes because both father and mother have remained a strong influence of support in that child's life. I think her criticism is more about the attack on the male. You only have to look at the number of sitcoms and commercials that portray the father as an idiot to see that angle.
I have found that most "long-term committed" relationships between men eventually become open relationships. On average, two years is about the limit before monogamy is shelved or they break-up. I have been away from that life for eight years but I can't imagine much has changed.
You are a life experiences "ologist" !
These two friends of mine are going on 10+ yrs I think. They work well together, and I HOPE they stay monogamous!! It would be sad to the whole big circle of friends if they split. (Also, I know that Gay breakups tend to be especially violent.)
I'll bet you a dollar there's been outside help. Any bathhouses in your town?
In addition to the Scriptures, there's also historical evidence. Cultures which have espoused and accepted perversions (pedohpilia, temple prostitution, human sacrifice, etc) like Greece, Rome, the Aztecs, the Mayans, etc–they all collapsed. Whatever the reason, be it coincidence, divine intervention, or Rhaz Al-Ghul's League of Shadows, these cultures are gone. Morality is, and ever shall be, absolute. Pedophilia is absolutely immoral.
I'm surprised at all the so-called controversy over advocating a two parent home. I understand wanting to defend a single-mom who had no choice in the matter and had to raise the kids on her own because the father bailed on the situation– my mom was in the same boat. But take it from someone who spent several years being raised by a single mom who had to stretch herself very thin to cover all the bases, from paying the bills, cooking the meals, cleaning the house and finding time for 4 kids with very little help, a man in the house would have been a very good thing. My grandfather tried to step-up as best he could and he was the one who taught my brothers that you never raise a hand to a woman and he was a wonderful influence who was unfortunately not able to be with us full time.
I would think men would applaud Coulter's stance that they are important in a child's life and so undervalued by the feminist left.
Okay, lets play a game called, "spot the stupid". ready?
Ronald Reagan died the same weekend that Harry Potter 4 was released. Reagan was alive for decades and decades, and then this film came out and all of the sudden, POOF! He died. Must have been the movie! Clearly they happened at the same time, so there must be a link.
Now go re-read your post and see if you can, (say it with me now), spot the stupid.
Also, literally EVERY empire EVER has fallen. So your argument is ridiculous anyway.
For those of you who haven't read Ann Coulter's book, she doesn't defend Bristol Palin – not once. Why would you defend the perfect example of how silly the current system actually is? Teaching kids about protection is just as INEFFECTIVE as teaching about abstinence. The point is that you want kids to make the choice to remain abstinent, not for moral reasons per se, but because of the consequences that are associated with choosing to have sex irresponsibly. You can still get pregnant using condoms or the pill; you can't get pregnant if you don't have sex, and that's the whole point.
Since when did pointing out someone's poor choices or decisions become wrong?
Equating homosexuality to capital crime is "truth"? Why don't you move to Iran with others who think like you.
You're absolutely right. Anyone interested in knowing the statistics behind the facts should read Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality by Dr. Joseph Nicolosi. I've been away from that life for one year. It doesn't change. Between Christian psychotherapy and a twelve step group called Celebrate Recovery I've managed to discover the causes of my same sex attraction and begin the healing.
I just watched the interview with her ( I forgot I DVRd it! What luck, eh?). It was interesting and I felt it proved my first point. It shows just how immature she actually is. I'm sure a large part of it was nervousness but she had very little to say. And the exact quote was, "Everyone wants abstinence and all but it is just not, not realistic" [insert nervous giggle here]. And her message was actually that teens should not get pregnant and that the best way to do that is by not having sex. She said she wanted people to "learn from her story." She talked multiple times about being an advocate for this issue. So, I'm curious, what did you think the "abstinence only crowd" would freak out about?
I agree with you sqt about the culture thing, really. But the way I see it, the change in culture should only be used as an explanation of why teen pregnancy has sky-rocketed not as an excuse. The only reason why I am sharing this with you (because it's not like we really disagree) is that I see this as a very large issue in my generation. My generation excuses their moral failings (and just downright ignorance) by using their environment as their shield. My generation will acknowledge their actions but do not think they need to bear the consequences for them.
So, I would encourage you, while the rest of the world goes crazy, don't let your kids get fooled into thinking that they can act any way they want, even though everything in this generation tells them they can. I commend you and your efforts for bringing up kids in this world. Good luck and God speed!
Welcome to the fight.
The bottom line is children need a strong family: A Mom and a Dad. We do not need a government nanny state running everything, especially our children.
Pedophile's, gay or straight, need to be in prison. There is no "cure" or rehab that is going to help. Also, I'd love to see the statistics as to the percentage of pedophiles who are gay or bi men. I am sure it is very high. And if you are gay and take offense to that… oh well. Just like a single mother taking offense to what Ann has stated in her book; hard to argue the facts and the facts are gays and single motherhood by choice or through irresponsibility are two issues that are dregs on a healthy society.
The problem is you are accepting a "gay" man as normal. They are not. There is something wrong there. It is not natural. The jump from gay man to pedophile is not that far a jump it would appear because all indications are MOST pedophiles are gay men.
HOPE is often postponed disappointment.
Eight years. That's encouraging. I don't know if you've discovered this, but I realized in the last year that my homosexual acting out was in itself a drive to repair my damaged authentic masculine identity. The acting out wasn't the root problem like I had thought for years but instead a manifestation of a much deeper problem. The good news was that homosexuality wasn't the problem. The bad news was that it was everything else.
JS, don't just concede that no attempt is being made by groups like NAMBLA. There are many groups who are pushing to lower age of consent laws into the very low teens. They just aren't going to Congress, they tend to be working on groups like the UN — trying to get these things into international treaties because they know Congress will never consider the issue.
Directly quoting from ~http://www.lifesitenews.com/features/marriage_def...
"There are links between pedophilia and homosexuality. The political scientist Prof. Mirkin wrote in a paper that: ‘pedophile organizations were originally a part of the gay/lesbian coalition…’ (Mirkin H. The pattern of sexual politics: feminism, homosexuality and pedophilia. Journal of Homosexuality 1999; 37: 1-24.). There is an overlap between the ‘gay movement’ and the movement to make pedophilia acceptable through organisations such as the North American Man/Boy Love Association
(NAMBLA), as admitted by David Thorstad, Co-founder of NAMBLA writing in the Journal of Homosexuality. (Thorstad D. Man/boy love and the American gay movement. Journal of Homosexuality. 1990; 20 : 251-74)"
Also from the same place,
"The number of homosexuals in essentially all surveys is less than 3%. (Statistics Canada found only 1% of the population who described themselves as homosexual.) However, the percentage of homosexuals among pedophiles is 25%. (Blanchard R et al. Fraternal birth order and sexual orientation in pedophiles. Archives of Sexual Behavior 2000; 29: 463-78.) Therefore, the prevalence of
pedophilia among homosexuals is about 10-25 times higher than one would expect if the proportion of pedophiles were evenly distributed within the (hetero- and homosexual) populations."
Why don't you quote a phrenologist on how awesome white people are.
The quality of your source is important. Not just HAVING a source.
“Not every single mom is that way by choice…”
BIGGEST LIE EVER!
We all know where babies come from. (Ann makes this point in her book as well) it’s not like catching the flu!
(Rape aside) Pregnancy is not just thrust upon you one day, in fact it’s extremely cheap and easy to prevent. Even cheaper and easier than single moms!!
Sarah is correct! Gay men are attracted to other men not children! Men who are "attracted" to children are pedophiles, period. It doesn't matter if they're attracted to boys or girls, they're pedophiles, it's as simple as that. When pedophiles were molested themselves as children. they tend to go after male children, even if they are also or would have been attracted to females. The fact is that many pedophiles are married or have been married, and many have children.
I also think that you, TXJohn, don't have the statistics, because number one, it's incorrect. Even when we know the percentage rate, it is probably not a true picture because this crime is highly under reported. I looked up the statistics for my state. The percentage of boys molested was very low and girls very high.
If, indeed, MOST pedophiles are gay men, why is it that female children are molested more than male children. Plus, why is it that many pedophiles are or have been married?
Not to contradict your main point, marie1, regarding the nature of pedophile vs. homosexual (nothing gay about it, sorry), many homosexuals are married or have been married, and many have children, also, so, that much or your argument is a wash.
It's simply not true that children must have "some kind of hurt in his/her life" to exploit. Some children are taught to please important adults and they'll do just that. Also, the circumstances are important. Imagine a child who is chosen to be an altar boy and is told by parents to not do anything to displease the priest. Or the child whose parent/s are so proud of his boy scout accomplishments and encouragement that he's afraid of displeasing them when approached by the leader on a camp out.
Not gay men, many pedophiles are or have been married and many have children. True!
NAMBLA even has a video tape and manual that teaches new members how to groom toddlers and preschoolers to pleasure men. This has to be the sickest instructional material I can imagine much less know about!
Are you intentionally being obtuse? Or are you attempting to deny that homos also marry? Just what is your point and who are you attempting to defend? And why?
Where did you find the statistic of 1/2 teh pedophiles are homosexuals? I've been researching statistics and didn't find that one.
Excuse me, AvantiBev, I first take offence when "ladies" is used to discribe women, as prejorative (putting us in our place — the kitchen). Secondly, I was a single mother. Not because of free love but because I was married and my child's father inexpictalably left us and disappeared. I may have needed a father but "daddy" decided to get cancer and die when I was young. How dare he?
What would you have suggested? I find a new "daddy"? I hire a private investigator to find my child's father?
While this article does not address the 50% statistic, it is an interesting read, nonetheless.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ART...
I apologize for misunderstanding your comment. You're correct that some gay people are also married to a person of the opposite gender and some have children. My point was that it isn't a homosexual or gay "problem" because pedophiles exist in all elements of society. Too many people here have claimed that pedophiles (or most) are gay. That simply is not true.
I'm trying to defend every person who is no a pedophile and been called one for some reason other than their attraction to children for sexual purposes. Why? Because pedophiles are exactly that and nothing more or less. They should be judged and held responsible. No one else should shoulder the blame for this scum!
Thank you for clarifying.
Thanks for replying. It was a very interesting article and had not come up on my previous searches. Essentially it says heterosexual men commit sexual offences toward boys are more often, homesexuals commit far greater more offences. I find this incredibly interesting when combined with the statistic that 95% of victims know thier perpetrators. This would indicate that a family member or friend is either hetero. and doesn't abuse much, or that the person is homo. and abuses the child often.
Although, one study may not tell the tale, it would suggest to watch out for all family and friends and not leave your child alone with any of them. Children are far safer with a stranger than someone the chid knows!
Er…perhaps its just the way you constructed your post above that is confusing to me, but, for clarity's sake, the crux of the article is:
"Child molestation and pedophilia occur far more commonly among homosexuals than among heterosexuals on a per capita basis, according to a new study."
I certainly would not leap to the conclusion that children are safer with strangers!
It is the betrayal of trust given to certain family and friends that creates the opportunity for predation to occur within those groups.
Blind speculation, Vince…not very productive…come back with some stats and we'll talk.
First off, Marie, I was not speaking of widows or those who have been abandoned by their spouses. I know a number of single parents (male and female) who have done outstanding jobs raising their kids. Yet as an actress my "day job" working for a law firm specializing in "family law" has shown me children handle the death of a parent in quite a different way than divorce or out-of-wedlock birth. Even at a young age, the human is able to distinguish between a parent leaving them willingly (such as abandonment) and unwillingly (death through disease or an accident).
My comment as a Baby Boomer was to address NAMBLA members exploiting fresh meat in the hunting fields created by heterosexuals' Sexual Revolution. I was present at said revolution and I have looked upon the abyss of brokeness we created. ____Homosexual ephebophiles were not anxious to tangle with vigilant, loving, attentive fathers so they went looking for the young pubescent male without a strong, faithful father to model manliness to him. Boys are not girls with penises
My comment as a Baby Boomer was to address NAMBLA members exploiting fresh meat in the hunting fields created by heterosexuals' Sexual Revolution. I was present at said revolution and I have looked upon the abyss of brokeness we created.
Homosexual ephebophiles were not anxious to tangle with vigilant, loving, attentive fathers so they went looking for the young pubescent male without a strong, faithful father to model manliness to him. Boys are not girls with p____s; they reach puberty and need to break from our mothering to find who they are as men. The ephebophile knows this as well as the wolf or tiger knows where to find his prey. Thanks to shacking up, hooking up, starter marriages and the like, there was an abundant supply of young boys created by sperm shooters not FATHERS confused in their quest toward manhood and ready to have that confusion exploited.
Finally, Marie, the word "lady" is in no way related to the word "kitchen". My desk dictionary defines "Lady" as " a well mannered and considerate woman with high standards of proper behavior." Well that explains why so many FEMALES today would indeed find that word distressing.
[...] number of students in special education. In Providence, the percentage of such children is double Single Moms and NAMBLA – bighollywood.breitbart.com 02/17/2009 With a lot of smiles and an occasional out loud laugh, I [...]
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