Tags: America, Atheism, communism, God, Islam, Klavan, msm, Religion, TV Posted Nov 9th 2009 at 2:27 pm in Political Humor, Religion, Video |
26039869 Commentshttp://bighollywood.breitbart.com/aklavan/2009/11/09/klavan-on-the-culture-god-in-60-days/Klavan+on+the+Culture%3A+God+in+60+Days2009-11-09+22%3A27%3A36Andrew+Klavan
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Let me see if I've got this right…a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree…makes perfect sense.
Bubba - November 9th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
Google suggests that this bit can already be found in literally ten thousand other places, so not only is this comment off-topic, inaccurate, and petulant, it's not even original.
I'm sure the commenter is taken with his own wit and intelligence, but I doubt anyone else is all that impressed.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Big Hollywood and Todd Maxwell, Scott Groves. Scott Groves said: RT @bighollywood Klavan on the Culture: God in 60 Days http://bit.ly/163rZH [...]
The Original K - November 9th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
And yet it seems to bother you so much.
Unshammable - November 9th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
It warms my heart that someone was so taken by my comment that they bothered to Google it.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." — Seneca
"There is no god, there is no god, there is no god at all. He who invented god is a fool. He who propagates god is a scoundrel. He who worships god is a barbarian." –Periyar (E. V. Ramasami Naicker)
"Every dictator uses religion as a prop to keep himself in power." –Martyred Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto in a 1986 television interview. Quoted by Reuters.
And let's see what the U.S. founding fathers and great Presidents thought about God and religion:
"What havoc has been made of books through every century of the Christian era? Where are fifty gospels condemned as spurious by the bull of Pope Gelasius? Where are forty wagon-loads of Hebrew manuscripts burned in France, by order of another pope, because of suspected heresy? Remember the Index Expurgatorius, the Inquisition, the stake, the axe, the halter, and the guillotine; and, oh! horrible, the rack! This is as bad, if not worse, than a slow fire. Nor should the Lion’s Mouth be forgotten. Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1,500 years." –John Adams letter to John Taylor, 1814, quoted in In God We Trust and 2000 Years of Disbelief
"The clergy believe that any power confided in me will be exerted in opposition to their schemes…and they believe rightly." –Thomas Jefferson
"I have seldom met an intelligent person whose views were not narrowed and distorted by religion." –James Buchanan
"My earlier views on the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation have become clearer and stronger with advancing years." –Abraham Lincoln
"Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church, and the private schools, supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and state forever separated"– Ulysses S. Grant
"In the long run, the most unpleasant truth is a safer companion than a pleasant falsehood." — Theodore Roosevelt
"I believe in an America where the separation of Church and State is absolute."– John F. Kennedy
"At least two thirds of our miseries spring from human stupidity, human malice and those great motivators and justifiers of malice and stupidity, idealism, dogmatism and proselytizing zeal on behalf of religious or political idols."
- Aldous Huxley
"There are a whole lot of religious people in America, including the majority of Democrats. When we abandon the field of religious discourse — when we ignore the debate about what it means to be a good Christian or Muslim or Jew; when we discuss religion only in the negative sense of where or how it should not be practiced, rather than in the positive sense of what it tells us about our obligations toward one another; when we shy away from religious venues and religious broadcasts because we assume that we will be unwelcome — others will fill the vacuum. And those who do are likely to be those with the most insular views of faith, or who cynically use religion to justify partisan ends."
- Barack Obama
"So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
- Barack Obama; On small town America and jobs during his campaign for the presidency.
“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
- Joseph Goebbels; On propaganda in service to the State.
"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
- Thomas Jefferson; On tolerance.
"That I am not a member of any Christian Church, is true; but I have never denied the truth of the Scriptures; and I have never spoken with intentional disrespect of religion in general, or of any denomination of Christians in particular."
- Abraham Lincoln
Oh, how cute! Another insecure atheist who gets his kicks mocking those of faith! Big shock there.
Sharon - November 10th, 2009 at 1:28 am
Im sure that felt good to post what you did, dear heart but youve convinced no one. Says much about your ability to communicate and discuss. Now…go play in the sandbox with the other little creeps. Shoo, fly.
Agreed. God-belief and religion are a special case of the larger problem of human demagoguery. That politicians have also spoken in support of religion proves only that they are politicians.
Bobbo - November 10th, 2009 at 1:52 am
It's about believing in something bigger than you Unshammable – realizing neither you, nor humanity, nor nature are the 'be all and end all". But, since you're unshammable, you're probably too smart for that quaint idea.
Bobbo - November 10th, 2009 at 1:54 am
Or believers.
toddes - November 10th, 2009 at 2:01 am
No, you don't have it right.
The Son submitted to the Father. The Creator became one of the Created and lived a life in perfect obedience to the will of the Father. He was mocked and persecuted. He took upon himself the punishment for our willfull disobedience and suffered and died on the cross. He was buried and raised to new life by the Father. It is because of his willingness to die in our place, that we have the oppurtunity to be reunited with the Father.
I realize you were being flippant in your response. When I read your comment 3 hours ago my first instinct was to respond in kind. But this is too important for flipanncy. This applies to Mr. Klavan as well as you, Un.
BlackSun you apparently didn't noticed (big surprise), but of the quotes I posted, the only ones where someone of political bent is invoking religion for specifically political purposes are from dearest Barack…One of those "political Idols" Mr. Huxley spoke of.
"What would have become of this movement without its propaganda? And where would our country be heading if truly creative propaganda did not provide its spiritual identity today?"
- Joseph Goebbels
toddes - November 10th, 2009 at 2:14 am
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
Oh, And for clarity's sake I should have inserted [National Socialist] between 'this" and "movement" as in; "What would have become of this [National Socialist] movement without its propaganda?"
Elwin Ransom - November 10th, 2009 at 3:12 am
Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see, or a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?
Once I read your post and realized what such good company I could be in as atheist and anti-theist, I writhed in pain and anguish, lashed out at the air, and finally sweated out profusely my Christian psychoses and renounced my Christianity. Thank you ever so much for allowing me to see the
Now go right another paper for your hippie college professor about stupid, stupid religious people. You're sure to get an A+
The atheist trolls on this post should be ashamed. Not just because of their atheism but because of their lack of intellectual prowess. Somehow we have went from Voltaire to the "Jewish zombie" post above. That should be proof enough that western civilization has declined.
Western civilization cannot be separated from the Judeo-Christian heritage. The loss of the latter will certainly cause the fall of the civilization it spawned. Liberty, freedom, a belief in the worth of the individual, will all give way if the underpinnings of faith are removed.
Michele - November 10th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Where did you get your weed from Andrew? Must have been pretty good for you to record this nonsensical BS.
Michele - November 10th, 2009 at 9:24 am
The president is a christian. Bill Maher is an agnostic. Your comment doesn't make sense.
angelblair - November 10th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Hmmm, 10 minutes a day for 60 days–a total of 10 hours all told. Is this practice worth possibly creating a new reality in which anything is possible? Would that a loved one suffer from a terminal condition, or similar hardship, be incentive enough to invoke the mercy of God?
I think a grand experiment is in order, say 50 athiests with enough scientific curiosity to engage in this experiment, with measured results. I for one would be most interested in what happens…..actually, this sounds like a great premise for a book!
Life is better under Christianity in every way. That's enough for me.
badbob - November 10th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Dr. Ransom, philologist and traveler to worlds unknown. I'm glad to see you back on the silent planet. You live in my favorite Sci-Fi trilogy by my favorite author.
His weed is actually the same stuff that I thought Obama voters were on at the time of the election. I hear it's pretty potent stuff.
eyes2see - November 10th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Amen Mr. Klaven. This piece made me smile the whole way through. Funny how God does that, brings joy to a person through His spirit alone. And not so funny how those who rail against Him are so joyless.
I'll bet Unshammable's God is sitting in the White House.
Pascal - November 10th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Let me see if I've got this right… all of space/time/matter came from nowhere for no reason. Life can spring from simple chemistry in spite of the astronomical statistical probabilities of forming even simple things like functional proteins. The fact that the laws of physics are fine-tuned for life (or even complex matter) is meaningless. Consciousness and freewill can come from matter and energy. Morality can spring from an amoral universe. People in all cultures and times believing in the supernatural is nothing but a global psychosis. And metaphysical constructs like the laws of logic (which are used to deconstruct religion) and mathematics can somehow magically coexist with materialism.
Is theism really so irrational?
Pascal - November 10th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
I, for one, had seen it before. I wonder if you've ever bothered to genuinely look into any of the many responses that have been offered to objections that atheists have tirelessly repeat over the centuries? And I don't just mean by harassing the average believer on Christian messageboards; I mean seeking out the best that the Christian philosophers and apologists have to offer. If I had to depend on the idle spams of the average atheist I would surely not be impressed.
Pascal - November 10th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
I saw this recently somewhere (maybe around here):
"There are two tenets of atheism: One, there is no God. Two, I hate him." –Douglas Wilson
Pascal - November 10th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
By what definition of "Christian" though? He doesn't just get to define it himself.
Great job! I especially liked the line, "No, I'm joking, life will still be tragic and suck." As someone once said (I'm sure), God is not Santa Claus. ..bruce..
[...] culture, people are not really aware of these arguments, and are still arguing for religious faith based on pragmatism and personal experience, not on evidence. Using reason and evidence is much better, and it’s what the Bible teaches, [...]
Odd thing is, you're doing the same thing Unshammable is doing. Presenting an opposing view in a trite, childishly oversimplified manner and pretending it means something. Oh, and pretending it says something it doesn't. I haven't read an astrophysics article that postulates how morality came about, for example.
I believe there was something said about removing a beam in one's eye before concentrating on a mote in another. I suppose if both of you have beams stuck in the eye you might want to take care of that.
Pascal - November 11th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Pat,
I'm just pointing out that atheism has its own problematic articles of faith to bear. Rejecting God is not a neutral position that leaves one without rational baggage. Of course it has to be oversimplified due to space limitations. I've actually written in some detail on each of the "trite" points I make. And about the origin of morality, that isn't generally a topic for astrophysicists. That is more the domain of philosophy, sociology, and evolutionary science. Even so, morality from mindless matter is implicit in the atheist's worldview, no matter who makes the attempt to explain it.
pkmom - November 11th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
So enjoyable, and 'they' think we have no sense of humor!
GraceG - November 12th, 2009 at 12:13 am
Personally I am Agnostic, but i will never deny anyone's path to their own personal salvation. Some of the Atheists I have had the displeasure of knowing make my skin crawl, they are Fundementalists Atheirsts and they are just as bad as any oher Fundementalist __________. Thanks Klavan!
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69 Comments
Let me see if I've got this right…a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree…makes perfect sense.
Google suggests that this bit can already be found in literally ten thousand other places, so not only is this comment off-topic, inaccurate, and petulant, it's not even original.
I'm sure the commenter is taken with his own wit and intelligence, but I doubt anyone else is all that impressed.
DO they give out Oscars for these things? If so I nominate!
Make the call. You're not that pithy.
Heh. Brilliant!
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Big Hollywood and Todd Maxwell, Scott Groves. Scott Groves said: RT @bighollywood Klavan on the Culture: God in 60 Days http://bit.ly/163rZH [...]
And yet it seems to bother you so much.
It warms my heart that someone was so taken by my comment that they bothered to Google it.
Don't be flattered. Most likely it means they already saw it somewhere else.
And instantly knew (perhaps through some miracle of faith) that I could not possibly be the originator of such ribaldry.
media gold… i am sending this to all my enemies.
We only get to eat Christ's flesh symbolically? As a carnivore fond of human flesh, I find that a little disappointing.
try the 60 day challenge, then get back to me….
you skeptics are all the same… windbags, scared god might actually find you out. silly little humans… lol
Don't let someone else's dogma limit you. If you want to go eat somebody as a sign of devotion, go right ahead.
Social comments and analytics for this post…
This post was mentioned on Twitter by ScottGrovesNC: RT @bighollywood
Klavan on the Culture: God in 60 Days http://bit.ly/163rZH…
Amen Mr. Klavan.
Great Nietzsche bait. The trolls are restlessly stirring under their bridges.
Heh, notice that the über-tolerant 'Unshammable' just can't quit evangelizing for his own peculiar brand of faith.
Sounds like girlfriend troubles…
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." — Seneca
"There is no god, there is no god, there is no god at all. He who invented god is a fool. He who propagates god is a scoundrel. He who worships god is a barbarian." –Periyar (E. V. Ramasami Naicker)
"Every dictator uses religion as a prop to keep himself in power." –Martyred Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto in a 1986 television interview. Quoted by Reuters.
And let's see what the U.S. founding fathers and great Presidents thought about God and religion:
"What havoc has been made of books through every century of the Christian era? Where are fifty gospels condemned as spurious by the bull of Pope Gelasius? Where are forty wagon-loads of Hebrew manuscripts burned in France, by order of another pope, because of suspected heresy? Remember the Index Expurgatorius, the Inquisition, the stake, the axe, the halter, and the guillotine; and, oh! horrible, the rack! This is as bad, if not worse, than a slow fire. Nor should the Lion’s Mouth be forgotten. Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1,500 years." –John Adams letter to John Taylor, 1814, quoted in In God We Trust and 2000 Years of Disbelief
"The clergy believe that any power confided in me will be exerted in opposition to their schemes…and they believe rightly." –Thomas Jefferson
"I have seldom met an intelligent person whose views were not narrowed and distorted by religion." –James Buchanan
"My earlier views on the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation have become clearer and stronger with advancing years." –Abraham Lincoln
"Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church, and the private schools, supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and state forever separated"– Ulysses S. Grant
"In the long run, the most unpleasant truth is a safer companion than a pleasant falsehood." — Theodore Roosevelt
"I believe in an America where the separation of Church and State is absolute."– John F. Kennedy
Can't believe the state of American Culture, where the rich and wealthy are celebrated. Where is God these days?
I once believed in God, but not anymore. There goes Western civilization, I guess.
What does the dyslexic, agnostic insomniac think about while lying awake in bed at night? "Is there a Dog?"
"At least two thirds of our miseries spring from human stupidity, human malice and those great motivators and justifiers of malice and stupidity, idealism, dogmatism and proselytizing zeal on behalf of religious or political idols."
- Aldous Huxley
"There are a whole lot of religious people in America, including the majority of Democrats. When we abandon the field of religious discourse — when we ignore the debate about what it means to be a good Christian or Muslim or Jew; when we discuss religion only in the negative sense of where or how it should not be practiced, rather than in the positive sense of what it tells us about our obligations toward one another; when we shy away from religious venues and religious broadcasts because we assume that we will be unwelcome — others will fill the vacuum. And those who do are likely to be those with the most insular views of faith, or who cynically use religion to justify partisan ends."
- Barack Obama
"So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
- Barack Obama; On small town America and jobs during his campaign for the presidency.
“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
- Joseph Goebbels; On propaganda in service to the State.
"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
- Thomas Jefferson; On tolerance.
"That I am not a member of any Christian Church, is true; but I have never denied the truth of the Scriptures; and I have never spoken with intentional disrespect of religion in general, or of any denomination of Christians in particular."
- Abraham Lincoln
It shouldn't make sense to someone with such a shallow view of theology.
Oh you're so bawdy! Or dare I say, audacious!
Oh, how cute! Another insecure atheist who gets his kicks mocking those of faith! Big shock there.
Im sure that felt good to post what you did, dear heart but youve convinced no one. Says much about your ability to communicate and discuss. Now…go play in the sandbox with the other little creeps. Shoo, fly.
Agreed. God-belief and religion are a special case of the larger problem of human demagoguery. That politicians have also spoken in support of religion proves only that they are politicians.
It's about believing in something bigger than you Unshammable – realizing neither you, nor humanity, nor nature are the 'be all and end all". But, since you're unshammable, you're probably too smart for that quaint idea.
Or believers.
No, you don't have it right.
The Son submitted to the Father. The Creator became one of the Created and lived a life in perfect obedience to the will of the Father. He was mocked and persecuted. He took upon himself the punishment for our willfull disobedience and suffered and died on the cross. He was buried and raised to new life by the Father. It is because of his willingness to die in our place, that we have the oppurtunity to be reunited with the Father.
I realize you were being flippant in your response. When I read your comment 3 hours ago my first instinct was to respond in kind. But this is too important for flipanncy. This applies to Mr. Klavan as well as you, Un.
BlackSun you apparently didn't noticed (big surprise), but of the quotes I posted, the only ones where someone of political bent is invoking religion for specifically political purposes are from dearest Barack…One of those "political Idols" Mr. Huxley spoke of.
"What would have become of this movement without its propaganda? And where would our country be heading if truly creative propaganda did not provide its spiritual identity today?"
- Joseph Goebbels
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
Paul the Apostle- 1 Corinthians 1:19-25
Duurrrr…
noticed = notice
Oh, And for clarity's sake I should have inserted [National Socialist] between 'this" and "movement" as in; "What would have become of this [National Socialist] movement without its propaganda?"
Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see, or a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?
Once I read your post and realized what such good company I could be in as atheist and anti-theist, I writhed in pain and anguish, lashed out at the air, and finally sweated out profusely my Christian psychoses and renounced my Christianity. Thank you ever so much for allowing me to see the
Now go right another paper for your hippie college professor about stupid, stupid religious people. You're sure to get an A+
Good for you!
I know! This video FTW!!!
Correction – it amuses us so much. Why else respond to such an erudite militant atheist?
Perhaps Cannonball8 can eat Unshammable? But it would probably expire from the indigestion.
Or the atheist who feels compelled to post on internet blogs attacking people who believe in a God he doesn't believe exists?
sir there is no "separation of Church and State" anywhere in the constitution. It does say that the state cannot establish a state religion.
Andrew should have used Obama instead of Bill Mahar.
No, looks more like you're letting your prejudice guide you.
Bothered doesn't mean impressed. I can get bothered by the antics of an unruly toddler and still not be impressed by it.
(Of course, depending on volume and general destructiveness, said toddler just might be more impressive than Mr. Jesus Was a Zombie above.)
In other words, you're another ronery attention-starved troll wallowing in bigotry in the hopes that people pay attention to you.
Definitely lower than an unruly toddler. The toddler has an excuse of not knowing any better.
Win-win!
Way to take most of your quotes out of their proper context. By the way, I would hardly consider Jefferson, Buchanan, or Grant to be great presidents.
The atheist trolls on this post should be ashamed. Not just because of their atheism but because of their lack of intellectual prowess. Somehow we have went from Voltaire to the "Jewish zombie" post above. That should be proof enough that western civilization has declined.
Western civilization cannot be separated from the Judeo-Christian heritage. The loss of the latter will certainly cause the fall of the civilization it spawned. Liberty, freedom, a belief in the worth of the individual, will all give way if the underpinnings of faith are removed.
Where did you get your weed from Andrew? Must have been pretty good for you to record this nonsensical BS.
The president is a christian. Bill Maher is an agnostic. Your comment doesn't make sense.
Hmmm, 10 minutes a day for 60 days–a total of 10 hours all told. Is this practice worth possibly creating a new reality in which anything is possible? Would that a loved one suffer from a terminal condition, or similar hardship, be incentive enough to invoke the mercy of God?
I think a grand experiment is in order, say 50 athiests with enough scientific curiosity to engage in this experiment, with measured results. I for one would be most interested in what happens…..actually, this sounds like a great premise for a book!
Don't feed the teenage trolls.
Life is better under Christianity in every way. That's enough for me.
Dr. Ransom, philologist and traveler to worlds unknown. I'm glad to see you back on the silent planet. You live in my favorite Sci-Fi trilogy by my favorite author.
And both are windbags.
His weed is actually the same stuff that I thought Obama voters were on at the time of the election. I hear it's pretty potent stuff.
Amen Mr. Klaven. This piece made me smile the whole way through. Funny how God does that, brings joy to a person through His spirit alone. And not so funny how those who rail against Him are so joyless.
That was awesome.
I'll bet Unshammable's God is sitting in the White House.
Let me see if I've got this right… all of space/time/matter came from nowhere for no reason. Life can spring from simple chemistry in spite of the astronomical statistical probabilities of forming even simple things like functional proteins. The fact that the laws of physics are fine-tuned for life (or even complex matter) is meaningless. Consciousness and freewill can come from matter and energy. Morality can spring from an amoral universe. People in all cultures and times believing in the supernatural is nothing but a global psychosis. And metaphysical constructs like the laws of logic (which are used to deconstruct religion) and mathematics can somehow magically coexist with materialism.
Is theism really so irrational?
I, for one, had seen it before. I wonder if you've ever bothered to genuinely look into any of the many responses that have been offered to objections that atheists have tirelessly repeat over the centuries? And I don't just mean by harassing the average believer on Christian messageboards; I mean seeking out the best that the Christian philosophers and apologists have to offer. If I had to depend on the idle spams of the average atheist I would surely not be impressed.
I saw this recently somewhere (maybe around here):
"There are two tenets of atheism: One, there is no God. Two, I hate him." –Douglas Wilson
By what definition of "Christian" though? He doesn't just get to define it himself.
Great job! I especially liked the line, "No, I'm joking, life will still be tragic and suck." As someone once said (I'm sure), God is not Santa Claus. ..bruce..
no you don't got this right, not even close.
No, Obama thinks he's the messiah.
[...] culture, people are not really aware of these arguments, and are still arguing for religious faith based on pragmatism and personal experience, not on evidence. Using reason and evidence is much better, and it’s what the Bible teaches, [...]
Odd thing is, you're doing the same thing Unshammable is doing. Presenting an opposing view in a trite, childishly oversimplified manner and pretending it means something. Oh, and pretending it says something it doesn't. I haven't read an astrophysics article that postulates how morality came about, for example.
I believe there was something said about removing a beam in one's eye before concentrating on a mote in another. I suppose if both of you have beams stuck in the eye you might want to take care of that.
Pat,
I'm just pointing out that atheism has its own problematic articles of faith to bear. Rejecting God is not a neutral position that leaves one without rational baggage. Of course it has to be oversimplified due to space limitations. I've actually written in some detail on each of the "trite" points I make. And about the origin of morality, that isn't generally a topic for astrophysicists. That is more the domain of philosophy, sociology, and evolutionary science. Even so, morality from mindless matter is implicit in the atheist's worldview, no matter who makes the attempt to explain it.
So enjoyable, and 'they' think we have no sense of humor!
Personally I am Agnostic, but i will never deny anyone's path to their own personal salvation. Some of the Atheists I have had the displeasure of knowing make my skin crawl, they are Fundementalists Atheirsts and they are just as bad as any oher Fundementalist __________. Thanks Klavan!
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