Rules for Conservative Radicals
by Andrew BreitbartThis week’s Washington Times column:
A digital war has broken out, and the conservative movement is losing. Read the comment sections of right-leaning blogs, news sites and social forums, and the evidence is there in ugly abundance. Internet hooligans are spewing their talking points to thwart the dissent of the newly-out-of-power.
We must not let that go unanswered.
Uninvited Democratic activists are on a mission to demoralize the enemy – us. They want to ensure that President Obama is not subject to the same coordinated, facts-be-damned, multimedia takedown they employed over eight long years to destroy the presidency – and the humanity – of George W. Bush.
Political leftists play for keeps. They are willing to lie, perform deceptive acts in a coordinated fashion and do so in a wicked way – all in the pursuit of victory. Moral relativism is alive and well in the land of Hope and Change and its Web-savvy youth brigade expresses its “idealism” in a most cynical fashion.
The ends justify the means for them – now more than ever.
Much of Mr. Obama’s vaunted online strategy involved utilizing “Internet trolls” to invade enemy lines under false names and trying to derail discussion. In the real world, that’s called “vandalism.” But in a political movement that embraces “graffiti” as avant-garde art , that’s business as usual. It relishes the ability to destroy other people’s property in pursuit of electoral victory.
Hugh Hewitt’s popular site shut off its comments section because of the success of these obnoxious invaders. Breitbart.com polices nonpartisan newswire stories for such obviously coordinated attacks. Other right-leaning sites such as Instapundit and National Review Online refuse to allow comments, knowing better than to flirt with the online activist left.
During the Clinton impeachment scandal, a new group out of California called MoveOn.org employed a plan to get its members to dial into right-leaning talk radio shows with scripted talking points falsely claiming that they were Republicans. They said they would never vote for the GOP again if the case against Bill Clinton was pursued.
Rush Limbaugh was the first to isolate these “seminar callers,” whose mission during the Lewinsky mess was to fool the listening audience into believing they were outraged conservatives willing to cut their ties to the Republican Party if the GOP-led Congress continued
Eleven years later, “seminar callers” abound and call screeners are trained in the art of weeding them out. But the filtering does not always work. down the impeachment path.
You can read the column in full here.
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294 Comments
Another popular strategy is to overwhelm the site with stupidity, not even bothering to post opinions, but mere personal attacks and rubbish. Eventually, everyone sensible gets disgusted and leaves. They even post items under the names of the reasonable people on the thread . Since they don't sound reasonable, they don't fool too many people, but it has a negative effect.
The trouble with fighting this kind of dishonesty and immaturity is that we can't use the same tactic. Conservatism is about having concrete standards of morality, not just whatever morality is convenient and will help one win. And that is what will help us win. The more we can clearly and factually expose lies, the more the liars will be discredited.
Great and timely article, Andrew. I agree wholeheartedly. That's why I am a big proponent in banning people who come in and spew their talking point lines. It is not living in an echo chamber to weed out people who have absolutely nothing to add to a discussion, but seek to derail it by their flame throwing. If someone wants to genuinely discuss and learn, then it's easy enough to tell those from the trollers.
Unfortunately, Intense Debate on this site regularly eats conservative comments while leaving some of the masters of trolldom free to roam about. The selective filtering seems completely out of whack much of the time. I've always thought that starving the trolls was the best method, though I do occasionally start typing before I realize I'm violating my own self-imposed rule. Good online debating should not regularly fall victim to robo-moderation. It robs the debate of immediacy, and for those choosing to do so, frequently leaves the posters unable to respond to the little green critters. I'm not worried about troll attacks as much as I am about overly-sensitive moderation attacks. Can we work on that? Online troll offerings are easier to ignore than those which take up live airtime on radio. I have no solution for outright attacks on the site, but that's what IT people are for.
The strategy of the Left is always to ignore the debate and attack their opponent personally. It is an immediate signal that the person is a seminar caller. Most of them also read their talking points and that becomes evident after just a few words. There can be no discussion with these people and cutting them off is the only viable action.
This site has done a good job of keeping out people who want to destroy the site and keeping people who may disagree but at least make a point. However, we've got to understand that it took the left at least six years for their attack to pay off. Even after six they won the congress in a less strong way than most out of power parties do. Also, Bush could only be in the thirties in polls if conservatives gave him lower ratings as well. Even the anointed one only got 52 percent of the vote. Think about this, conservatives only lost because they lost areas (women, minorities) where we are afraid to fight . The leftists' way may not be the most effective way.
I'm assuming it's Intense Debate that is using robo-moderation, but I don't know that for sure. If it is moderators at Big Hollywood, then my comments apply here rather than at Intense Debate. Some of our gangs' best irony and sarcasm gets lost in Alice in Wonderland moderation.
Nice article Andrew. I'm a firm believer in fighting fire with fire. Actually, I'm a firm believer in escalation. If the other guy brings a knife, bring a gun.
Agreed. And I have no moral dilema with deleting their posts and kicking them out. They aren't serious about the debate, so why should be treat their garbage seriously.
I would like to see them require everyone to register. I think that would eliminate the drive-by trolling. People who come, post something inflamatory and then leave, never to return. We can pretty much handle the rest.
Ohhh come on debate me oh leftist moron. I want you to try to show me something that I can't reply to in a more logical, even handed way………please. Please. And if you denigrate us and our intellect or lineage? Well, some of us real Americans are a lot more glib and challenging than thou art.
Andrew the site has done an excellent job at keeping the leftist trolls out. They want to have a discussion, awesome. We all welcome dialogue, however, 99 percent of the time they dont. My advice to Instapundit and the others, these bottom feeding scum only have this outlet…..if name calling, and concern trolling is all they have, thats what they shot their wad on? FANTASTIC! Good for them. BRING IT ON!
Lawhawk, I rarely have problems with the filter anymore. I've solved most of the riddle and I just avoid the traps.
What I don't understand is why sometimes the trolls get to use unallowable words. I also don't understand why they can often make these huge posts?
I'm gonna have to agree with Lawhawk and the Don't Feed the Troll method. It's tough many times to avoid it, I must admit I have succumbed to it, but if we all practiced it would help keep conservatives moving in the right direction. We wouldn't get side tracked into debates that are pointless. I think the ranking system at least helps in this regard.
The truth of the matter is I don't think the comment section really changes to many peoples opinions in general. It feels more like an outlet of sorts for the average citizen. The upside is the reminder that there are still people out there that have some of the same ideological beliefs. If we all could get troll guns that would be nice too though.
The lower the rating a comment has, the more vital it is that you DO NOT F__KING RESPOND TO IT. I've broken that rule many times and I regret it.
If my earlier reply to you disappears forever, I'll try sending it again. Maybe you can pass a few of the tips on to me if you see where I went wrong. I know some of the no-nos, but others completely escape me, as you will see in the reply I referenced. I've completely re-read it, and unless ukelele is a trigger word, there's absolutely nothing that should have caused the moderation monster to get me.
Agreed this site has done an excellent job of keeping trolling to a minimum even before intense debate was instituted.
while words are the preferred weapon of the enemy, actions do speak louder. start tightening the screws on your congress with mr. obama's eligibility issue, illegal aliens and statist-type regulations. then call them out for the cheap politcal theater re the bonuses; maybe they should read the bill they're handed. impugn them on their oath of office . flood their mailboxes and phone lines with mail. i usually call and write my senators and representative once a week. maybe i'll do it every day(they really don't like it when you call).
Also keep in mind that lefties seem to have had exclusive control over cultural media for decades. Little comments written into dialogue of TV shows or movies, comedians establishing that it’s funny to laugh at a conservative point of view, etc. Rush was the first large-scale push back to that. There are more of course, but you get the idea.
My point is that they’ve got the experience. While I believe that conservatives have the superior argument, conservatives don’t seem to know how to put it into action as far as all the little ways in which to influence the culture are concerned.
Most conservatives also don’t seem to be in a position to influence like the dearth of lefties in Hollywood are, so it’s easy for lefties that are so inclined, to become “trolls”. For them, it’s simply a new technique of the same general media blitz.
That’s why I love this site (sorry, not trying to “suck up” here). I see it as the starting point of a big push back (culturally).
Andrew: Well in that case, f–k you.
The DFTT method works well for the trolls who get off on tweaking people. All they want is a rise out of people, so if you ignore them, they eventually go away. It's about power for them. Unfortunately, we can't get everyone to agree to stop talking to these people. Moreover, some of them, like Stupid, will pose as multiple posters to generate responses to himself in the hopes that others will join in.
The real problem are the ideological trolls. I don't know if they are paid or are just little hitlers, but they will come and come and come, with the idea being that they are serving their cause by disrupting us. If they can mess up the Board enough, they believe that new visitors will turn away or that existing people will fade away. That's why you need to police these folks heavily, because they are actively trying to destroy the site. I don't know the best way to handle these people. I would say, that's what moderation is for.
LOL!!
Two of the stranger things I've figured out: avoid quotation marks and avoid product names. These don't always trigger moderation, but they seem to make it more likely. Also, as you know, religion and race often send us to moderation land.
Of course, you're right. They still haven't taken away the right of an owner to refuse entry to unwanted guests. Or to expel them when they've violated the rules of civil discourse. At least not yet.
Good article, Andrew, the attacks are clearly asroturf trolls and coordinated phony psywar, especially at the nets and newswires, which indicates to me that the thugs are not fully confident in their media control. It is difficult to screen the astroturfers out, but we must not succomb to feeding the trolls. Case on point: several years ago, astroturf ANSWER set up a story in Philly dominating the net and media with a phony GOP mom opposed to the draft. Neither the morons or the local media could have readily seen the con, it was so well done, and it took some effort to nail it. Think of it like the WWII insults to the marines, done in hopes the irate marines would shout back and betray their position. Do not feed the trolls, track them back to find the astroturf sponsor.
I'm glad Andrew has written this article. There needs to be a concerted effort to combat Axelrod's minions. Enough of this easy-going nonsense. This is war and they're playing for keeps. It's bad enough that they infect Politico, the major newspapers, etc., but to allow them on Conservative blogs is flat out silly. They come out with their same ad hominems, same coordinated talking points to the point of nausea.
I think what conservatives need to do is maintain a voluntary "ridicule" squad at these other sites that point out what the coordinated attack of the day theme is. If they attack, we meta-counterattack. Point out the narrative and it loses all power.
Good tip. I used quotes in that reply. Religion and race haven't been much of a problem for me, except of course for the use of the word that refers to a group that is both religion and race (or at least ethnic).
"They want to ensure that President Obama is not subject to the same coordinated, facts-be-damned, multimedia takedown they employed over eight long years to destroy the presidency – and the humanity – of George W. Bush."
This is the only part of the otherwise spot-on original article with which I take issue. This sentence suggests, probably un-intentionally, that conservatives and libertarians must use "facts-be-damned" tactics to expose the Dear Leader's lack of clothes. I disagree. There is more than enough in Obama and co.'s on-the-job performance to criticize without resorting to the sleazy ad-hominem/ red herring/straw man attacks used by the left against President Bush.
Shhhhh! Don't give the Obama people any ideas.
Andrew, these tactics aren't limited to the internet. I've found that simple civil discourse with "friends" of the left-leaning persuasion has often left me friendless. The great group mind-think that the left accuses conservatives of having is alive and well behind their own noses. They simply can't stand people who disagree with them.
Yeah, I know you've had problems with that one. I've never been able to say Nation … of… ..lam.
"There is more than enough in Obama and co.'s on-the-job performance to criticize without resorting to the sleazy ad-hominem/ red herring/straw man attacks used by the left against President Bush."
Agreed. Besides, conservatives just seem clumsy and generally not very good at it when they try it.
Does that mean I have to stop making cracks about adorable circus elephants named Dumbo?
During the election, at my previous blog, I was constantly hit with "Concern Trolls." They would come in as one of us — Republicans — but "concerned" that we were losing. Pseudo-Republicans designed to undermine morale and enthusiasm. The extent to which they would go was quite sophisticated, including the frequent changing of IP addresses to break through the filter after being banned. Many would change screen names and loop their IP's through some foreign country, mostly Amsterdam.
Their MO was, "Gee, I really want McCain to win but Palin is dragging us down." One claimed to work for the campaign in a swing state and have inside info on discouraging polls.
The CT's really ramped things up in the days when McCain surged after the Palin pick and the convention.
Another thing they do is drop racist comments hoping to discredit the blog.
Mr. Breitbart you mentioned Hugo Chavez in your article. A few years ago Chavez defended his shut-down of an opposition TV station with an allusion to Antonio Gramsci. I had been on to this Italian communist, but to hear Chavez mention him by name really surprised me. Not coincidentally, we have several grad students at my (New York) university who go to bat for Chavez on a regular basis. These lefties aren't joking around, as you pointed out. Thanks for being such a great voice for conservatives who know what's up.
It's a war of attrition. The idea is to wear us down and exhaust us so we stop gathering, motivating each other, and coming up with ideas.They make weeding them out labor intensive hoping we'll give up on comments altogether — because then we're not communicating and gathering and game planning… We're simply in the dark, demoralized and feeling lost. It's a genius tactic. Dirty as hell, but effective.
It should be said that these scourges are completely different beings from someone truly interested in engaging in honest debate — or someone honestly raising a little hell because they disagree (heaven knows I've done both). There are a few leftists on this blog with high comment ratings, like MovieBob, because we know the difference between honest, passionate disagreement and one of Axelrod's Astroturfers.
W was a decent man with absolutely no gift for public speaking. He didn't deserve the ad hominem attacks and lies thrown at him for eight unrelenting years. On the other hand, Obama is a pretentious, pompous, self-righteous, pseudo-intellectual know-it-all. It is impossible to separate him from his persona, and I have no intention of missing out on that fun.
We get several of those here. There's one on the other page. Shows up for the first time, is all registered, seems to agree, and then posts three or four racist comments. I don't know if we should respond to those or what? Any guidance would be appreciated!!
One tactic I find commonly used is to post links to leftist and seemingly moderate articles. By cutting a pasting hundreds of words they try and literally drown you in verbiage. I simply ridicule the source and try and post my own sources. See how quickly they run.
Andrew is the only one who "Gets it" on the right.
So they are remaking that movie.
Part 1:
What angers me is that this is another way that the left has bastardized the constitution for their own nefarious ends. The original basis of the 1st Amendment protections of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly were to protect people who voiced unpopular opinions from the tyranny of the government they were critizing. Instead they have used these freedoms to create straw men and spike teams to blur and change arguements.
Unfortunately, there is no easy answer because the system is not setup to provide an easy answer. Every step that could be taken to combat the trolls carries the same unattended consequence of stifing debate and taking away the anomnity of those who my need it.
Part 2:
As we saw from the actions of the Anti Prop 8 forces, who doesn't want to bet that Dem. operatives are collecting a list of people who express say, pro traditional marriage ideas and trying to connect real names to the screen names. The best we can do is expose them to the light. Like rats, they need darkness and ignorance to survive. The more people know, the less effective they will be.
Like others, I love this site because of the diverse range of views and the emphasis on pop culture. I say to the trolls and Soros-funded groups reading this: Watch yourselves, because we are watching you now. You always overreach and when you do there are thousands of citizens ready to bring your activities to the light.
Andrew,
I’m so glad you’ve addressed this issue at BH. Right after the election I couldn’t bring myself to comment on another site because of the total and complete infiltration of those filthy green skinned, wet footed, foul creatures that live under the bridge.
I dropped out of sight until about a month ago, swearing never ever to “click” a message on a keyboard again.
But, things are “changing” in a way I’d never thought I’d “hope” for.
Occasional or infrequent resignation is useless, as I’ve seem at my other favorite sight at HotAir. The astroturffers and bridge dwellers are thriving over there and they has open registration every couple of months.
Here at BH it's getting pretty bad at all hours of the day or night, and just takes away from the converstion.
It's like some stanger walking up to your table that you are sitting at with friends at a restaurant and helping themselves to your beer and calling your mother or sister a dirty name, then walking away. And, as conservatives we are suppose to be Civil and take the high ground mind you?
Sorry, not any more, the stakes are way too high.
I didn’t get my ass blown up in Nam to take their sh!t laying down. I didn’t then and I’m not going to start now.
That’s why I sigh off all of my comments with Not Over. As in, the FIGHTS Not Over.
So,
Not Over.
Report them through intense debate…
Last week there was a network news report — 20/20 or some such thing — where they sent a couple of gay men into a neighborhood bar and then set up secret cameras hoping to catch the "rubes" getting all homophobic. They even planted a homophobe of their own hoping to goad the others into joining him.
Well it was a major failure and most who spoke out did so to tell the plant to shut up.(I wasn't surprised because unlike network types I've actually lived in flyover states and know that other than network types this is a country filled with good and decent people.)
But the astroturfers come here hoping for the same thing. Because they're the bigots who think conservatives are racists, they assume all we need is a leader to get us started and then we'll all jump on the race train. Of course we're not, and no doubt they're suprised each and everytime they're both ignored and deleted.
I dunno. But if they are, I guarantee the wise-cracking, funny, musically-inspired and incredulous crows will be gone.
Young people were the first to embrace the cultural and social trends brought about by the internet, and then used it to evangelize modern liberalism because it's the default dogma of the politically and economically uninformed.
We might lose the yelling matches on the internet, but the realities of our world always places us in the position of truth. Plus, given time, much of the young internet population will grow up. Liberals often grow up into conservatives, and never vice versa.
I guess I see things differently. I've never seen the Right so fired up as I do now. Levin's book is #1, and Atlas Shrugged is now at #37. Rush's ratings are skyrocketing. Friends of mine who were lured by Obama's moderate claims are now yelling in fury how they hate his guts. The Tea Parties are just gonna get bigger and bigger. I'm actually starting to see anti-Obama bumperstickers in Hollywood and protestors in Studio City. I agree with Newt who said this guy is dictatorial and Pelosi has overreached; he predicts a Republican takeover of the House in 2010. I don't care what these little Internet brownshirts do, America is finally waking up.
I got banned at Lucianne.com because I was too critical of George Bush. The criteria I would apply to posters is whether or not they are sincerely supporters of liberty and whether they are whiners or not. I personally cannot stand bellyachers. Critics of Sarah Palin drove me up a wall. Folks who were just too sophisticated to support a yahoo like Sarah Palin. Gag.
They have no ideas. Just talking-points. I realized I should have added "guests who overstay their welcome to my list.
I found a couple of those in Ben Shapiro's thread. I reported them and was relieved with how fast they were removed.
It's disturbing. These guys work like Soviet propaganda operatives.
That's one of the reasons why I like coming here is that a majority of us are on the same page, and we do motivate and respond to one another. I don't like the idea of this site being deserted because of trolls. I'll fight them if I must but I would rather they just go away.
I'm not saying it's working today, just stating the goals and intent. And we've all seen trolls make a writer's or commenter's life miserable, or at least try to. The hope is to make the experience of writing on a blog or commenting on one a misery when it was once a joy.
It's a harrassing and intimidation tactic, like calling someone or sending them ugly letters.
I enjoy feeding the trolls because they're easy targets. It's one of my daily indulgences.
We know the difference between honest debate and and a jerk just trying to frustrate and annoy people — wrap them around the wheel of an endless argument over nothing.
MovieBob has been a part of my blogging life for a couple years now. Never agree with him, but love having him around. He's a good guy who loves and knows movies, and he's a smart leftie who can make a point without being ugly. Last I saw his comment rating was higher than mine.
Honest debate with someone you disagree with is invigorating. So we know the difference.
I have a hard time resisting as well. They make it so darn easy!!
No quotation marks? But, but, I love them! That might be the reason I have been losing some of my comments lately. I didn't know about the Is lamb thing was moderated out. Hmm. Why is that exactly?
I always encourage reasonable debate. Here in Austin, it's a regular sport between me and my liberal friends.
The determining factor here is whether or not someone is bringing actual content or supporting evidence to the table. It doesn't hurt to have some knowledge or taste in film.
Agreed it's feels like an awesome opportunity to confront stupidity. I think what happens though is that all of the other comments in favor of any given article slide further and further down the pages. If moderators could attach a troll symbol to known trolls that would help move things along.
They'd have negative point counts next to their names if only they weren't too cowardly to register with IntenseDebate.
I'm calling our trolls out — why don't you register so you can comment like civilized beings, instead of this hit-and-run crap? I respect some of our more outspoken critics like MovieBob, because a guy like him actually has the b@/!s to put his reputation where his mouth is.
Concern trolls are more popularly known as Mobys, since their namesake has actually advocated concern-troll tactics against the Right.
So, using proper punctuation like quotes gets you eaten by the mod demon? How disappointing.
Yeah, some trolls only want to drive down legitimate comments. Others, who shall remain nameless, are just looking for attention and will take anything they can get. One guy will post a half dozen responses at one (all mindless and insulting) and then wait for someone to take the bait. If no one replies quickly enough, he apparently will respond to himself to try to entice others into joining the debate.
I have thought about just following up his posts with just "DFTT", but I didn't want to clutter the board.
The efforts of the left to silence the rest of us have not gone unnoticed. What hurts us most is that major media has not made it a point to highlight this disparity. When media disparity and injustice are mentioned by anyone on the right the major media outlets go out on a limb to characterize such comments as whining and never fail to mention Fox News, Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh as though they were the great equalizers that they benevolently tolerate. We know all too well that the left would silence all dissension if they were given the choice. In the meantime, while they wage their war to silence the loudest of us through more permanent means their minions are hard at work efforting to squelch every voice that is not in harmony with their worldview.
It should also be noted that this war of words is also being fought in Christian venues where many conservatives retreat to fellowship and to reaffirm their moral convictions. In those places where there is little to no moderation, such as myspace, most Christian forums are besieged by those whose wills and beliefs are malevolent and maligned .
Trolls as their name implies are at best a distraction and serve only to create chaos and disharmony. They are but an echo of others whose designs are more sinister and destructive. As Andrew indicated they are the ones we should be wary of. They are the wolves in sheep's clothing. Fearful of the truth they stick to the shadows always taunting and mocking but never willing to stand face to face. As others have said it's a form of terrorism. Like so many "Freedom Fighters" they hide behind the innocent darting from one refuge to the next until our backs are turned. Not long after they are busy spinning tales of their bravery in hopes they might inspire others to follow by their example. And many do.
Needless to say there are many of us who value truth and honor above all else and we will not be silenced or discouraged. Sean Hannity sets a wonderful example in this regard. He welcomes such attacks and offers to debate anyone on substance and facts just as any of us here would. As I have said in other posts, there is a difference in winning an argument and a debate. In an argument you need only have the last word our shout down your opponent but in a debate one of you will undoubtedly be proven wrong or less informed.
You should read my husband in action on some of the forums he frequents. They are nasty, nasty places, and he holds his own quite easily. When you employ facts against feeling though, it's quite easy to do. I'm not quite as brave as he is; I prefer civilized discourse.
Brisco,
That's funny, I just reported some on that thread, too. The first time I've reported any at all. I am just getting tired of the schtick, amd the way they end up hijacking threads for their amusement. Look, we all know we aren't racists or religious fanantics, so don't bother even trying to defend yourself against these idiots. I haven't ever heard them called "concern trolls" though. That's funny. I see a lot of those on blogs, attempting to suck the wind out of everyone's sails. I can't believe how many of them are out there, do they still get paid for their work, or are they just doing it as a freebie for points, later on?
Quotation marks don't necessarily end up in moderation, but they seem to make it more likely. Don't know on the other issue.
One of my other blogs of choice is a place called Right Wing News, and we saw our share of those sorts. It helps that our comment community is small and fairly familiar with each other. Several of those guys can spot a sock puppet or a fake miles away. And after a while on the 'net, you get adept at reading people through their posts too. It doesn't take too long before you spot someone trying too hard.
It's interesting that you make an international connection. The National Tax Day Tea Party site is currently defending itself vigorously against internet attack (DOS) both from domestic and foreign sources.
So what do we do? Trolls don't have much stamina, so if we pound them with a logical argument, they will tire and go away. We have a few that keep coming back- Tehstupid and wr1,- but they are masochists so we give them to torture they want (and so richly deserve). The worst they can do is call us names and I'm not afraid of being called a name.
You can't fight trolls; it's what they want. The best you can do is ignore them or report them. You have to learn to recognize when you are having a discussion with an honest leftist who wants to really talk, and when you are encountering a troll.
The troll will do everything except really address the point of any argument being made.
Well Chas, I can see your point, but I also see their's, too. It gets old when people are continually bellyaching, and it sounds like you got swept up into a group that they felt was being too negative. Right or wrong, though, it is her blog. I agree it can be hard when you dissent on someting, but unfortunately that is the way it is. I used to like to read Little Green Footballs, but now they it is a continually bashing on creationism and Christianity. I don't even hold super strong views on most of what they say, but the negativity of it, is offputting. I really like to read the Conservative Cave, Sweetness and Light, and Newsbusters. Usually good stuff, and for the most part, the posters are like the ones here.
Not be overly juvenile but trolls suck don’t they? That being said, we have to remember these are little radicals, Alinskyites if you will reasoned debate will not work. DFTT is the best policy, but If you must, I have found never answer their questions directly turn it around and ask questions totally unrelated using circular logic it make their little heads explode, 3 or 4 posts and they usually run off. It’s disruptive and makes for some really dumb posts. It’s hard to do and yes counterintuitive to a gentleman or lady eh…hmm… We all know the trolls. but in my mind we need opposing views from true believer liberals is fun, and keeps it honest.
I think that Andrew's idea of invading Kos, DU, HuffPo and places like that might not be possible unless we truly do stoop to their level. Unless they've changed policies for example, DU tends to use a heavy ban stick for anyone who doesn't stay in the echo chamber. There is an urban legend at RWN about one commenter who registered there and was banned for a one-word post: Why?
A better tactic might be to seek out the places like my husband frequents where they say they are seeking open, unbiased debate and wade in bashing heads. Or engage in vlog shenanigans via YouTube where I've been following a fun exchange between Devil's Advocate (conservative) and The Amazing Atheist (speaks for itself I think). DA is winning quite handily I might add.
I wondered where those disappeared to. I'm like Andrew, I can see the plant, but I wasn't sure what to do about it. Some of them are very subtle, and you find yourself agreeing with much of what they say until they make a somewhat clouded racist comment. I'm glad you and John both tipped us as to what to do. I was having a lot of trouble not responding to a couple of those plants. I just didn't want to bring on a whole new thread of racist crap, so I followed my usual rule of ignoring them. We do have a duty to discuss race openly without using racial stereotypes and slurs. And it's a bit of a tightrope given the successful liberal line of painting all conservatives as racists.
I agree with both of you, and doubleplus agree with the notion of mandatory registration.
I use quotation marks all the time, and that hasn't seemed to trip it, and Islam works fine for me as well.
The one word that always triggers it for me refers to a certain group of people who wandered around the desert for 40 years and then wound up settling in the only place in the Middle East that doesn't have oil.
It's the Chicago Way. Which is sort of appropriate right now isn't it?
A dirty secret about the left is that there are just as many –if not more– racists on their side as on the right. A lot of liberals are hateful and elitist in general, so racism isn't a stretch.
A dirty secret about the left is that there are just as many –if not more– racists on their side as on the right. A lot of liberals are hateful and elitist in general, so racism isn't a stretch.
Agreed, in fact I'll even give it a harrumph. If everyone could see the blinding red light of the Thumbs of Justice it'd help them decide whether or not it's worth their time or effort to respond.
When trolls sock puppet, and you don't recognize the new name, and you're the first one on the scene of a a post it can be hard to realize if the poser is here for some actual debate or just to be a troll. Usually by their 2nd post, even with a new name it's easy to figure out though from the dreaded Wall o' Text of Talking Points.
DFTT is the best policy! However with some really pesky little troll, you mustn’t start a debate. They use pretzel logic and, “but, if, yes, no,” you into exhaustion. Like a petulant child give them the back of your hand (metaphorically of coarse) and send them to their rooms. I’m new to blogging (thank you Big Hollywood) but I’m not new to ‘60s radicals or their spawn. Reasoned debate will not work.
DFTT is the best policy! However with some really pesky little troll, you mustn’t start a debate. They use pretzel logic and, “but, if, yes, no,” you into exhaustion. Like a petulant child give them the back of your hand (metaphorically of coarse) and send them to their rooms. I’m new to blogging (thank you Big Hollywood) but I’m not new to ‘60s radicals or their spawn. Reasoned debate will not work.
Also some names and ethnicities will knock you out, the speaker, J_ws, etc.
Don't ban the trolls, Andrew, much as we would enjoy their absence. They serve the unpleasant, but necessary purpose of exposing the latest talking points from the enemy camp. That, and they prompt the sport of one-upping them, which is good intellectual exercise. Hugh Hewitt couldn't handle the deluge, but he didn't have the legion of loyal posters your site attracts. Keep up the good work!
That one catches me too.
Not only is it the default dogma of the politically and economically uniformed, which it is, but they have a hive mind mentality which is reinforced through the educational system in many places at all levels. College tending to be the worst, I'd love to go back and chat with some of my old professors, just to watch the dawning horror on their face when they realized that the indoctrination didn't stick.
I did have my own quasi-liberal phase for about a year or so in college too, I say "quasi" because I never believed it, never talked about politics but just didn't speak out against their lunacy, in my defense it was all for the girls. Luckily I figured out really fast that the girls that actually believed what I did were way less annoying to deal with so gave up pretending and went out looking for like minded souls.
Not only is it the default dogma of the politically and economically uniformed, which it is, but they have a hive mind mentality which is reinforced through the educational system in many places at all levels. College tending to be the worst, I'd love to go back and chat with some of my old professors, just to watch the dawning horror on their face when they realized that the indoctrination didn't stick.
I did have my own quasi-liberal phase for about a year or so in college too, I say "quasi" because I never believed it, never talked about politics but just didn't speak out against their lunacy, in my defense it was all for the girls. Luckily I figured out really fast that the girls that actually believed what I did were way less annoying to deal with so gave up pretending and went out looking for like minded souls.
I did not know before this why Hugh closed down his comment section. Trolls have never bothered me; the problem so many people have with them (including this site) is when they chose to engage them. Reminds me of the saying when you get into the mud to wrestle with a pig –
There is no point to engaging them – the best policy is to ignore them. Seminar callers; internet trolls – are usually pretty obvious.
Reminds me a bit of the Nazi brown shirts who always tried to shut down any discussion not the Party Line.
So that's why it was so slow the other day!
There are some others who get it. But not enough for my liking. I'd have to say that Andrew Breitbart is one of the better 21st century thinkers that I have been reading/hearing in the last few years. He understands principals, values AND the popular culture. And communicates his thoughts on all very well.
Keep up the great work, Mr. Breitbart! We need more like you and the great cast that you have assembled here!!
There are some others who get it. But not enough for my liking. I'd have to say that Andrew Breitbart is one of the better 21st century thinkers that I have been reading/hearing in the last few years. He understands principals, values AND the popular culture. And communicates his thoughts on all very well.
Keep up the great work, Mr. Breitbart! We need more like you and the great cast that you have assembled here!!
Whats nice about BH is that the commentors here usually handle the garbage & whine with aplomb. They seldom keep up the rant after the first stupid comment. I think we have some excellent troll surgeons here that know how quickly put 'em in their place. It is hard not to feed trolls. I have noticed that they will attack an older thread and fill it with vile rantings and three word insults, like their trying to overload the servors. So far so good, and thanks Andrew and John for the continued excellence that appears on this site.
Yes Lawhawk you can make fun of Dumbo, ha…
Months back I went looking for a national news site that would allow for anonymous posting. I'm not too thrilled about registering at sites as that often ends up with me receiving all kinds of spam. And spam from the right is still spam.
I enjoy the discussions here at BH and wish I had a much better background in pop culture to really understand the significance of various threads and participate in kind. Perhaps my appreciation for entertainment may grow as I read threads that are currently 4 degrees of Kevin Bacon beyond my experience. TCM would be a big help too.
(I'm liking BH more and more and will probably register here soon. Can I expect any spam?)
That said, the one site I found was Topix.net, and although there are some stalwart conservatives that post there I see many of tactics described above. Of late I have started responding to some regular posters employing the circular argument strategy. And the nonsense that comes back as a reply is mostly amusing. I have to admit that I have a bit of evli joy in knowing someone contradicted themselves from their other posts — whether they knew it or not.
Other times I employ a bit of nonchalance while engaging a lefty in thier rant de jour presenting myself as somewhat naive in the subject. I almost made a breakthrough with one who was trying to analogize the national debt as a hole but that more debt (spending) was a patch. The conversation broke down when others didn't let his little snipes innocently pass.
I noticed that a few here relish taking on liberals. I encourage you to follow up there in the US News and Politics threads. I would so like to see some comeuppance dealt.
Of late I've been lamenting that Obama has only been in office for just a few months and that criticism is just not fair. It's not fair for liberals to expect conservatives to have their solutions at hand so quickly.
I haven't got a reply to that observation yet, but I expect there are some who are crafting pithy replies.
And I absolutely agree with you — they're trying to intimidate. They run in wolf packs. The recent post on atheism was only the most recent example. The militant atheists did a huge drive-by and ridiculed everyone and then took off, not bothering to read replies to their hate-filled attacks. They're cowards and bullies and really not much different than the Taliban. The righteous man is beset on all sides by iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. I've been on political blogs for many years and welcome their attacks. As soon as they open their mouths, they prove they're their own worst enemy.
"recognize when you are having a discussion with an honest leftist"
er, a what?
At the risk of being lectured a bit;
I've read everyone's comments to this point, and I can see where you all are coming from, BUT…
I am mad as hell, people. I mean, really, really angry. These people, perpetrators, whatever, are messing up my COUNTRY, fer (blank)sakes! My poor children and I are going to have to clean up this disgusting mess, and they'll be left with the rest of the pile long after I'm gone. That is hurtful to me as their father. This isn't embarrassing, its shameful. I am not taking it anymore.
So, I'm going to wrestle the pig, kick whatever its presenting me, and make it into yummy good bacon. I am going to ignore the high road, and hit, kick, bite, pass gas, or whatever else I need to do to insult and belittle these critters. I am going to personalize everything with them. I am making them the target. I am going to introduce them to the same tactics, axis of fire, enfilade, flanking, sticks and rocks, spitting contests, etc. that they use against us.
The gloves are OFF. These people are going to get the message whether the phone rings or not. I am not leaving all options on the table, I am going to take the options and gleefully insert them into their eye. This is a bar fight, and I am going to walk out of it alive.
I am Patrick Henry. Liberty or Death for me.
If this be treason, make the most of it!
Ace of Spades HQ is also good, if you don't mind the frat boy culture.
Zactly, Stan
I'm perfectly happy to entertain myself pointing out their hypocrisy — in love and kindness and with all due graciousness — then seeing how long they can stand their cognitive dissonance before their heads explode and they simply vanish from the debate.
I used to "troll" Media Matters before they booted me. They HATE when you bring facts to the debate.
I have trouble resisting also andrew…just be polite, logical, factual, and most important…always address them as trolls, so that the unsuspecting will know.
Oh yeah, and before I close this out, keeping in mind this is a Hollywood site, let's all try to remember the wonderful scenes of heads exploding from the movie Scanners, the greatest sci-fi flick of all time.
We had a bunch of concern trolls and mobys at Ace's during the election, and they still pop up every once in a while. But it's mostly gone back to average trolls. We either ignored them or just mocked them so relentlessly that the ones who bothered to stick around for more than a hit-and-run eventually gave up and ran out of their basements to cry into their mother's skirts.
We had a bunch of concern trolls and mobys at Ace's during the election, and they still pop up every once in a while. But it's mostly gone back to average trolls. We either ignored them or just mocked them so relentlessly that the ones who bothered to stick around for more than a hit-and-run eventually gave up and ran out of their basements to cry into their mother's skirts.
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