Why ‘The People Speak’ and the Zinn Education Project May Be Illegal in Public Schools
by Adam Baldwin“The People Speak” College Tour concluded with a standing-room-only crowd in UCLA’s Schoenberg Hall last Friday afternoon.
After the video presentation, host professor Ellen DuBois facilitated an audience question-and-answer session with her guests, actor Josh Brolin and producer Chris Moore, while Howard Zinn’s partner Anthony Arnove (whom Brolin credits for his own participation) paced the back of the theater.
Asked about his project’s intended use in K-12 public school settings, Mr. Moore answered:
We have a whole educational program. There’s a curriculum, there’s a whole educational thing. There’ll be a website that has tools, that’s searchable… There is definitely a plan.
That plan includes “The Zinn Education Project” which:
…promotes and supports the use of Howard Zinn’s best-selling book A People’s History of the United States and other materials for teaching a people’s history in middle and high school classrooms across the country. The Zinn Education Project is coordinated by two non-profit organizations, Rethinking Schools and Teaching for Change.
In “A People’s History,” Prof. Zinn declares:
Objectivity is impossible, and it is also undesirable… because if you have any kind of a social aim… then it requires that you make your selection on the basis of what you think will advance causes of humanity.
Professor Zinn announces the overtly political agenda of A People’s History in an explanatory coda to the 1995 edition. Zinn explains to the reader that he has no interest in striving for objectivity, and that his history is ‘a biased account.’ Professor Zinn explains: ‘I am not troubled by that. I wanted my writing of history and my teaching of history to be a part of the social struggle. I wanted to be a part of history and not just a recorder and teacher of history. So that kind of attitude towards history, history itself is a political act, has always informed my writing and my teaching.’
That subjective social aim and biased accounting, when used as the basis for student instruction, is inconsistent with state education codes, local school board policies and administrative regulations.
Public schools are required to provide varying points of view and deal with issues in a factual, rational, objective manner and in a spirit that clearly indicates an attempt to promote greater understanding. They are prohibited from engaging in viewpoint discrimination.
Teachers are both legally and ethically restricted from using their positions to forward their own political, economic or social biases. Teachers may express their personal opinions, but must first identify them as such and not express them for the purpose of persuading students to their personal points of view.
The Zinn Project’s other materials for teaching a people’s history are provided by its collaborators:
- Teaching for Change: a social justice organization that, “Encourages teachers and students to question and re-think the world inside and outside their classrooms, build a more equitable, multicultural society, and become active global citizens.”
- Rethinking Schools: an activist publication that claims, “Schools are integral not only to preparing all children to be full participants in society, but also to be full participants in this country’s ever-tenuous experiment in democracy. That this vision has yet to be fully realized does not mean it should be abandoned.”
A lesson plan, formulated by social justice teacher Bill Bigelow: “One Country! One Language! One Flag!” crystallizes the Zinn Project:
It asks students:
What does it mean to “pledge allegiance” to the flag? What would it mean to not pledge allegiance to the flag? [The Pledge bonds child and flag in a way that may inhibit young people from thinking critically about actions taken in the name of the flag…].
The lesson is designed to persuade students that the American Flag stands for an unjust nation whose history is one of repression, intolerance and shame, equating the Pledge itself to immoral ideologies and totalitarian regimes:
Why not lead kids in the original Pledge to the Flag, including the “One Language!” chant and the Nazi-like salute, and then lead a discussion about the politics of the Pledge?
State laws require public school days to begin with patriotic exercises intended to promote the understanding of the concepts of “pledge,” “allegiance,” “republic,” and “indivisible,” and understanding the importance of the pledge as an expression of patriotism, love of country, and pride in the United States of America.
On what legal, professional or ethical grounds can or should public school boards and administrators allow their teachers to provide instruction to students that is, in this case, specifically designed to subvert their state patriotic exercises statutes?
These teachers are already participants:
- “I love all the materials I received in the packet and have so far seen an amazing effect with my students … Thank you for letting me and my classes participate in this program!” — Angela Hubbs, Junior High School Teacher, San Diego, CA
- “Thank you so very much for sharing Zinn’s materials with us. We badly need to get a message of advocacy and action into our communities and into our hearts. Your support makes this easier, in a fight that feels overwhelming …” — Nancy Jean Smith, California State University Stanislaus, Stockton, CA
This would explain the Arkansas fifth-grader that made news recently by claiming there is no “liberty and justice for all” in America as his reason for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegiance during his school’s daily patriotic exercises.
Hopefully schools will become more cautious before agreeing to institute such curriculum and lesson plans in their classrooms.
Howard Zinn is a famous educator.
Does what he and his Zinn Education Project collaborators and celebrities think will advance causes of humanity comply with the law, and is it ethical instructional material?
If not, then it is inappropriate for use in America’s public schools.
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[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Fernando Colon, Clyde. Clyde said: Why ‘The People Speak’ and the Zinn Education Project May Be Illegal in Public Schools http://tinyurl.com/ygnqnsd [...]
I've often thought that Leftism was something akin to a mental disorder.
I was wrong. As you can see, these motherf___ers know exactly what they're doing.
The shameless libs target our youth with their anti-American worldview, and we wonder how people can elect a POTUS that is so inexperienced and ineffective. What's sad is the fact that our monolithic government has a stake in this indoctrination which means there is really no hope that these propaganda programs will be stopped anytime soon.
Communist indoctrination approved for K-12? The evaluation program itself is another step in winning. Deadly snakes lose in a school wouldn't be tolerated in the name of animal rights. We are at the point of losing a deadly war, and the enemy is at the gate, and our gate-keepers are preparing to welcome them.
Thanks, Adam for posting this.
My father-in-law gave me a copy of this book, and I was appalled at how biased it was. Only the "history" that fit in with Mr. Zinn's agenda was in the book. It's a shocker. Here's his basic take: Every indecent act of humanity during the history of the US is somehow tied to, blessed by, or planned by either the government or big business. End of story.
Living here in Texas, I feel a little safer as there are alot more safeguards against this garbage gettting into the curriculum.
Looking forward to Chuck
take care,
Mark
TX
Indeed, they do.
Hopefully schools will become more cautious before agreeing to institute such curriculum and lesson plans in their classrooms.
That will likely never happen.
Outcry is good, but if no one's noticed before now, our elected leaders–from dogcatcher to congresscreature–have stopped their ears to everything but loud money.
If the GOP and big business leaders continue to starve their political future by failing to invest heavily in educating our children in the virtues of capitalism, then we do indeed get the government we deserve.
Look at the huge grants from big business and you'll see one of two things: they are piling money into Democratic operatives in exchange for lucrative contracts, or they are being blackmailed by government agencies into supporting Liberal nonsense in exchange for tax concessions. Our GOP leaders have proven spineless and powerless to stop the madness, likely because they are lining their own pockets as well.
Sorry for the cynical, useless point of this little rant. *sigh*
This is yet another reason not to send your children to public school. They are indoctrinating children to be automotons, that blindly follow the current politically correct party line. America bad, vote Democrat. This is not a new development. This was what American public education was designed to be. The purpose was not to educate free men, but to produce servile worker bees.
Do you have a room for rent, down there in Texas?
When we regain control of our Government, we must get School Vouchers introduced and passed. We can not give the trust of our Children to the Unions and Government.
If either of my kids come home with that book in their backpacks, they'll no longer be attending public schools in FL.
These Marxists are attacking us on all fronts. Seems like every day there's a new assault.
Luckily, my kids are smart enough to watch the news and can't wait for 2013 – when they're both over 18 yrs old and can campaign against Obama and socialist Dems.
We can not give the trust of our Children to the Unions and Government.
You already have. You should have acted decades ago.
You are correct sir.
I've got to disagree. I've got Christian friends who've unplugged from the public school system to homeschool. I think that just makes the process accelerate. We should be in the schools fighting to get them to teach our kids to read/write, not indoctricnate. There are good teachers and students in all schools, struggling to do the right thing. Now's the time for activism. It worked for the left.
there is too much talking about "let's not exploit our youth" or "this is brainwashing". The sooner some Hollywood commies go boots up for Jesus, the sooner these cockroachs will run for cover. Take the F**KING gloves off – this country is been stolen while we watch.
This must be part of the coming change starting in 2010, academia. Pride of country is not some jingoistic notion, but critical to the survival of any country. The leftist are pushing their stupid moral equivalence arguments to our children, and grandchildren, “everything is relative man!” No! This is the greatest country in the history of mankind, and should be touted daily, and understood if we intend to keep it that way.
Illegal? What's that matter anymore?
Now here's a book/scenario that can be turned into a movie. No, not to slavishly follow it but to show the evils of revisionist history and indoctrination in schools as well as the socialist masters that manipulate the puppet strings.
History should ALWAYS be taught as objective as possible… How are our children supposed to think critically about our past? and learn for the future. I would have no problem with that book being taught in schools IF their was a counterpoint.
Lord, Homeschooling is looking better and better… :/
All right! You've taught your children well
I still agree that it's a disorder. But it's a disorder of the spirit. They worship themselves and their own perceived superiority. They are exact opposites of the character of Jesus Christ.
That's independence in you talking. Liberals aren't interested in independence and thus aren't interested in objectivity. They aim to convince you to agree with them by using a jackhammer beating against your will until you scream enough and accept their point of view. Unfortunately, it's working…
Both good points but there's nothing like starving the Beast to make it howl. Every child not in a public school means less money for that school by virtue of the funding structure.
The activism of the Left began in the home. Welfare moms stayed home to rock the cradle and used the public dole to gain the advantage of being home with their kids. Can you blame them? And you'd better believe they were involved in the schools because they had time to be there. The rest of us were scratching to get ahead, get a better house, better neighborhood, better job, better baby sitter, and nice vacations. PTAs struggled to get attendance and involvement out of us.
It's okay to confess our own sins in this travesty. It's Advent after all.
Exactly.
I realize Big Hollywood is attempting to save some semblance of what remains of their former entertainment industry however the time has long since passed for this to happen.
Those hiding in Hollywood, protecting their own wallets blew the opportunity; your fear empowered the tyrants running the show.
The only way to end Hollywood's monolithic anti-American-pro-tyranny agit-prop is by bankrupting the entire industry.
Bankrupt Hollywood, give up evil entertainment so that a better industry can be built.
Hopefully schools will become more cautious before agreeing to institute such curriculum and lesson plans in their classrooms.
Hopefully parents and tax payers will become mad as hell at what's being done to their children, with their own money. I know I sure as hell would be.
Perfect example of the left's mission to redefine the language to suit their ends. Social justice no longer means social or justice.
Just the other day there was a letter to the editor of the local newspaper saying the US should withdraw all troops from Afghanistan and open dialogue with the taliban and al qeada (mass murderers never get proper capitalization from me), and find out what they want.
I think they made it extremely clear on 9/11 what they want. Us to die.
The beginning of the end of the United States is already here. The Liberal Marxists control our entertainment, our news, or eduction, and our government no matter who we put into office. There are still some people left, but they they too have been silenced and minipulated. The time for correction is up. Rebellion and disengagement is the only option we have left. I want to be hopeful and I want to think we can fight our way out of this madness.
We saved ourselves from the brink with Pres. Ronald Reagan, but completely lost our chances in 1992 with Clinton thanks to that scumbag Ross Perot who pretty much gave him the Presidency. All those years of Republican dominance was wasted as we held back the tide, but didn't increase our freedoms.
TEXANS, you need to succeed from the Union to give hope to others that the beast can be fought. Show your true independent spirit and millions of Americans will support and join your effort. Step up to the plate even if your own state government officials are cowards. Petition for voting your displeasure about the Communism that has taken over the United States Government.
The time is not now, it is lost. What must be is a bold and new direction; whatever that might be.
the term "disorder" infers something that can be 'reordered.'
Not with these people. Trying to reason with these kinds of people is like trying to teach a pig to dance. Wastes your time and annoys the pig.
It appears that all the radical hippies (i.e. Bill Ayers) did not peacefully reach room temperature years ago, or move off to some commune in Oregon and politely shut the hell up.
No, instead, they've infiltrated the public school system.
Not in my house it ain't working.
I've always had issues with authority. And I see no reason to stop now.
Let's get 'em.
Meh… that's because I was taught at home (the schools the DoD was providing us American kids oversees just wasn't cutting it… we were the guinea pigs for all the social engineering teaching that our kids get to 'enjoy' in schools today) by my parents who are a hybrid of Conservative and Classic Liberal (Just like I am).
Zinn fabricates the struggle then reacts to his own little fantasy world. This is disastrous!
I recommend "Liberal Fascism" by Jonah Goldberg to understand why Big Business is not GOP.
Big Business votes for Democrat Statism for a reason.
This reeks of desperation from the Left. That dying movement knows it's lost momentum, but this is still highly dangerous.
There are too many parents that don't care what's being taught in public schools, and until they take an interest, sleeze like Zinn will continue to creep into culture.
I would very much like to have a child but because of the current state of our public schools, I absolutely will not have a child until I am financially secure enough to home school or send him/her to private school. I went to private school and my parents still had to pay taxes for public schools their children were not using. I pay taxes for public schools that I refuse to ever use for any child of mine. It is a sad state that these "educational houses of horror" have gotten so bad that they are affecting my choice of whether or not to have a child (but i still have to pay for them).
I like this idea. Sounds like something someone from one of the Conservative think tanks should definitely pursue.
Think 2010 to limit the activities of this White House and 2012 to sweep it clean. We need Delay to head the RNC. Steele is too quiet, to soft, to nice to fight this enemy.
I was indoctrinated with all this stuff throughout college, but never in elementary school; high school; and definitely not in kindergarten!
They're determined to get our children as soon as possible now. They're in the home stretch.
Obamacare will impact the elderly…the ones that remember what America stands for. Soon, they will be gone. The public schools will take care of the young with revised history. The EPA will determine what you can and can't do…everywhere. Citizens will toil to support the government…and the government will hand out just what you need…forget what you want. Or, you can vote in 2010 and 2012 and put an end to this growing nightmare.
A handful know what they are doing. The other "motherf___ers" are just flat out stooopid.
Trying to change the system they have entrenched in our communities is a futile exercise. May I recommend perhaps a better way to address these issues.
TAKE THE STUDENTS AWAY FROM THE TEACHERS.
If these people didn't have double standards then they would have no standard.
Unfortunately, that movie was WWII.
I don't really see the problem. This is high school material no? Coming from the public school system (hey, I turned out ok,…), I remember learning about the bias of history, etc in highschool, and it being an interesting and enlightening experience. I learned all about the awesome USA, apple pie and how flawless capitalism is when I was young. I have to say, there was very little discussion of bias or alternate viewpoints during all that, lol. I still love my country, I just don't do it unquestioningly, or with the belief that there aren't legitimate issues to be seen with what has happened in the past. Ignoring those problems seems to be too close to the old 'doomed to repeat it' saying. Despite the bias, those are true stories. I think that this kind of material is totally appropriate for high school level, given proper discussion. I do feel that the blatant bias is extreme and obviously shouldn't be taken at face value, however, it seems that Zinn himself sets up his book to be examined for 'political history'. I guess I also feel like obscuring valid points by shouting 'marxism!' at it, which seems…well, extreme, can't really foster genuine discussion, which is what is needed to keep extremism, of any kind, from having undue influence.
You're right about the DoD schools. I went to one while we were stationed overseas, and it's the first time I remember being taught about the USA being wrong, on a lot of things that never would have occured to me.
The very idea of an open dialogue with a terrorist organization is so proposterous. Yet we have people in this country that believe otherwise; quite frankly it leaves me speechless.
I'll second that sentiment.
Where I live nobody -and I mean NOBODY- in their right mind sends their kid/s to public school, but tuition for kindergarten (German for 'children's garden') is over $6000.00 a year; A rate that climbs to over $10,000.00 per annum going into middle and high school. My brother had twins a couple years ago and I remember thinking how lucky he was to have married a private school teacher whose school provides free tuition for the children of its teachers.
That's worth its weight in gold these days.
"I aim to misbehave."
Unfortunately, Hollywood doesn't really need America anymore.
They've gone transnational.
Hold your fire. We're 46-47 weeks away from whacking them with the ballot box; if we build our throne out of bayonets we will be the ones who bleed last.
Any so called educator who embraces Zinn's anti-American view should be weeded out and deposited into the academic dustbin! These false educators must be broke before they break our nation and our future!
I'm an independent. I'm probably more liberal than conservative most years. However, I like my right to bear arms. I love my freedom of speech. I respect what the flag of the United States represents. I respect the fact that freedom of speech means that I have to listen to people say things that I absolutely hate. However, writing yourself into a biased history is just wrong on so many levels. That's not history. That becomes fiction. Our schools should be about teaching facts not fiction. What is wrong with teaching from ye old standard text book? I keep hearing people say, "There's just so much more that kids have to learn these days." Really? Maybe we're making it more complicated that it needs to be. Sure we've added about 25 years of history since I graduated but that shouldn't take too much more time to teach. Let's get back to the basics. Teach our children to read, write, add and subtract. They can read, think and decide the other stuff on their own.
I don't "pledge allegiance" to the flag because I don't "pledge allegiance" to the State. I stand respectfully during the national anthem because I love this country, but I don't understand why any conservative would ever "pledge allegiance" to the flag. I understand some of the patriotic rationale behind it, but pledging allegiance is basically taking an oath to the State.
Liberals should love the idea of the pledge of allegiance, though they'd probably replace "flag" with "Obama."
You are right in emotion, but completely off base with practicle solution. By looking out for our own and burying our heads in the sand we leave the field of battle to our enemies. Most people cannot affort or are not capable of alternative education. So each year the public schools pump out more mindless, irrational, incapable, immature, emotion-driven drones to fill the growing legions of the socialists who cannot survive without the succor of the State. When they have the numbers, which may be very soon, they will crush the forces of individuality, freedom, religion, and any other cause contrary to there own utopia world view.
Yeah, but the progressive socialistas do so many remakes of old classics with a "new" twist, giving them new villains, latest movie "stars", I'd say that this time we turn the tables on them.
Please re-read this and the previous articles. This is a comprehensive K-12 course system, written with the INTENT of creating social change by fraud and slight of hand. Higlighting Americas faults, downplaying our glorious history, and using opinion, rumor, and unsubstantiated evidence to destroy pride and patriotism in our great land. The United States, warts, and all, stands as the greatest nation in the history of the entire world. Never has a country done more, to help more, and save more people.
By then they'll given the illegals the right to vote and ACORN will stuff the boxes to make up for the difference. Throne of bayonets? Nice prose, I'll give you that much.
I had to read that in high school (and I had a teacher who was pretty conservative), we had a reading assignment the first day of school and didn't touch it again in that class.
I'm pretty sure it was on the reading list since the previous AP US teacher (and chairperson of the history department) was an unabashed socialist. Oh, Catholic school fun….
perhaps after the total destruction of the American dream is realized maybe they'll snap out of their indoctrination, much like the Germans did after WWII. Of course this time around more people will die, more families will be crushed, and the re-education camps will be liberated from our brothers by our brothers. Without America who will come to the rescue?
You need to be careful to distinguish between "government" in general and "the government established in the US Constitution." Zinn blames much on "the government," but it is always the government of the Founding Fathers he has in mind. It's not as if he's some kind of anarchist. Far to the the contrary, Zinn is a dyed-in-the-wool totalitarian–an advocate of Total Government. His complaint is aimed at the regime of limited government and popular rule established by the Constitution. He wishes to replace it with a dictatorial system headed by–who else?–Zinn, or his proxies.
This is what people need to understand: these folks aren't just misguided fools, although they are certainly that. They are people motivated by principles entirely antithetical to liberty and popular sovereignty. This makes them our enemies, pure and simple, who seek nothing less than our subjugation and enslavement. No one who loves their children should be tempted for a moment to allow these devils access to their childrens' hearts and minds. Pull them out of school now and teach them yourself, using sound books and methods. It's too late to save our country, but one of these younger generations is going to be called on to fight. Make sure your children are equipped for the Resistance and not the Empire.
Bonnie, I read the letter you posted the other day and it was great. You, and others are an inspiration. Maybe you could get an equal time thing at your kid's school. If they won't take the book away, maybe you could get them to at least correct the errors in the text. If they won't agree to that, I think it might be time for a lawyer. The blatant inaccuracies in the text are reason enough to keep it out of schools. I think you (and all of the rest of us) might have a viable case here.
My modern US history teacher was a libertarian. He somehow taught the entire class with videos, lectures, and no textbook. He also played the Beatles and Dylan while bashing the teachers' union.
God bless Mr. Berg.
The Zinn Education Project is supported financially by the Target Foundation (Target Stores) and the Staples Foundation (Staples Office Stores). Use wisely your Power of Choice. Visit the Zinn Education Project web site (http://www.teachingforchange.org/about/funders)to verify.
A lot of good your son's violin is going to do him in the fucking Gulag, Bonnie.
Don't you get it? This isn't some theoretical exercise or teatime diversion. It's nutcutting time. The enemy is at the gates. Rome is burning and you want your kids to fiddle?
The best thing you could do for either one of them is buy them each an M-16 and make sure they know how to use it.
I must disagree with your analysis. It's not people screaming "Marxist" in order to avoid reasoned debate. You can not have a reasoned debate with a Marxist. A subliminal part of that ideology is if you don't agree you are mentally inferior, and not agreeing Marxism is perfect, is proof of inferiority.
I don't think most reasonable Americans want children brain washed into thinking America is perfect. It'd be foolish to try. But Mr. Zinn and his ilk go 180 degrees in the opposite direction, concluding America has no redeeming qualities.
And there is a very real reason for this. America proves every day that socialists and communists are wrong. Not only can we survive without an all encompassing, centrally planned government controlling every aspect of our lives, we thrive with out it.
It's hard to convince people statism is the only way to go, when you have America as a shinning example they are completely wrong. That's why leftists want to bring America down.
For example, you've got Castro brothers saying how great their worker's paradise is while how terrible America is.
On the one hand, you have Cubans risking their very lives to escape, you have the Cultural Revolution/Great Leap Forward, Stalin's man made Ukrainian famines and Pol Pot's killing fields, rough summation, between one hundred and one hundred and fifty million dead people. On the other hand, you have the highest living standard of any society in the history of civilization.
Which would you choose?
That's why America has to be demonized. We prove their lies are nothing more than that. And we have fun doing it, and that drives them up a wall.
You don't need boxing gloves or a lead pipe. What you need is the exchange of free ideas. Education will prove them wrong. They can now win in an open debate and they know it. That's why they're going after kids.
The idea is to end the debate before it begins. That's what the insults are for. That's what the screaming is about. It's a rouse to prevent the honest, open, reasonable debate of issues.
Funny thing is most modern liberals don't even realize why they're doing it.
What in the world are you talking about? I don't think you even read Bonnie's post.
And guess what else. I don't think you're a conservative either.
May be I'm the exception, I attended a DoD school early 70s. I remember one teacher she was the wife of a serviceman, she was born English and became an American. She would not let a day pass with out telling us how fortunate we were being Americans from birth.
The one thing she would not put up with was anything dealing with Nazi Germany. (She was a little girl during the Battle of Britain.
You're right. The do teach way too much to kids, so something has to go. And far too many schools have decided its going to be documented American history, proper English, math and science. They're on the way out to make room for multi-culture, diversity, anger management, and how all the world's problems were created by angry, white, European males.
That's the problem with such a successful society. Gives whiners far too much time to sit around and figure out who to blame all their anxieties on.
"…[A]nd to the republic, for which it stands….."
I do think there's an opportunity for a lawsuit here. The easily verifiable false 'facts' in the books should eliminate them from the educational domain. If the schools won't correct these errors within the teaching of this nonsense then I think they should be sued. Plain and simple. That is something they respond to.
I didn't attend a Catholic school, but my daughter does, and the one she attends is nothing like that.
Her global studies teacher told her class the only people they are allowed to call worse than Hitler in his class are Stalin and Mao.
Now there's hope and change I can believe in.
In America, the flag is a symbol of our Constitution and the rule of law according to the will of the people. It is not a symbol of "the State" in the sense you mean. I pledge allegiance gladly to the principles of popular sovereignty upon which this country was founded, while I join you in rejecting any and all allegiance to a mere "State."
Um … I just clicked your link and it goes to a page definitely connected to the website, but it says 'page not found'. Hmmm.
I liked reading Zinn in college. The text we used was mostly 1st person accounts of history, often not found in text books. The problem remains the same in teaching history- what do you cover, from what angle? What is important and what do you leave out? Not all of history fits in with the narrative that we were spoon-fed as kids; and that will continue today. Facts and questions are important; its the conclusions that we have to watch out for. When teachers make absolute conclusions about history and treat them as gospel; that's when we should pay heed. There will always be opinion, often controversial on how to interpret history: what we really need is to teach our children how to think critically and make their own conclusions
In our case, we can't be both "one nation" and a "republic" at the same time. A republic would require adherence to our Constitution which, as we all know, greatly empowers the states over the federal government. As is quite obvious, the federal government now holds almost complete authority over the states, a direct affront to the Constitution and the intent of the founders.
We are a republic made up of many states; we are not "one nation," and we were never meant to be.
Those people should be made to watch a certain scene in Independence Day when the President asks the alien what he wanted from the human race. And the reply was : to die.
Anyone who doesnt absorb that and decide to fight for life…should be allowed to give the enemy what they want. But not me. And not my child.
So are all libs damned or just some. I consider myself a bit liberal but "I" think this is bull shit. My mother is a teacher. She taught me many valuable things about a child's mind. It is like a blank slate or fresh clay. It will pick up everything it learns. I think using this horridly bias book as a text is a horrible idea. I also know it is not the first bias book or movie to be used in schools and that makes me even more sick to my stomach. Should parents fight against this? HELLS YES! But you should do it as adults and good models for your children. This name calling and stereotyping is bullshit and gets us no where.
I would certainly not want to live in a communist state where I would be opressed. However, the extremism of 'communism or capitalism' is not very satisfactory. sure, socialists have universal healthcare, but are all people who want universal health care socialists? I would say no, and I guess most on this thread would say yes. I believe in compromise and experimentation, which is after all what this country was founded on. Compromise between large and small states, the states and the federal gov, everything was fought out and brought to somewhat middle ground. I just don't believe that because it's been a long time since then that that process isn't valid. After all, if the system was foolproof we wouldn't be arguing about it still today. this has definitely drifted from the original plot, but just to finish my thought I would say that lots of things about america work, while some things seem to do people, the states, our morales harm. And when confronted with those issues we should be open-minded to partial solutions, and people should be allowed to say that they think maybe this or that plan is a good idea without being branded a commie, with all the negativities inherent in the definition and connotations within that brand. Honestly, I'm only 19, I know I have a lot of stuff to learn. But I look at my friends and fellow students and I don't see blind liberalism so much as apathy. Most people I ask have little to no hope that the problems see can be fixed, but they do see the problems. That is why, I believe, so many young people voted for obama or didn't vote at all. At many times during the campaign it seemed that one side was saying 'america is great and flawless, we are the best' and the other was saying 'america needs help and change' and sure, it probably won't come, but why not admit it's not all roses? this toxic political rivalry is turning people away, from patriotism and activism on both sides. It's just so darn negative, and then when you try and compromise you're called a commie.
Anyway, thanks for reading this too long post, lol. I do love hearing everyone's thoughts on the subject.
Well, I do enjoy the lovely allusion to Nero fiddling while Rome burns since my son plays violin.
That being said, I ask you to try and let go of your rage for a minute and think. All battles cannot be won with bullets — in fact, our entire system of government is set up to use the ballot box, not the ammo box. I fought this battle in my school, all the way to the school board, and I lost. Howard Zinn is on the curriculum.
My choice was to take my kids out of school, or leave them in and make sure they understood the difference between propaganda and truth. So far, so good. Plus, my kids are busy spreading the virus of conservatism to all their friends. When half the kids in class laugh at global warming, you know you're getting somewhere.
So peace, Night Fighter. You're not alone in this battle, and we're going to win it.
"America bad, vote Democrat."
That was the attitude of my poli sci TA in college. She had a toothache but didn't have insurance, and didn't make much money as a TA (at a STATE school… there was a movement at the time for TAs to get paid more. Not sure what became of that, but we did get a big new addition to our football stadium for our mediocre football team). She often said she wished she lived in Australia (where, according to an Australian government website that i wish I had bookmarked, they give incentives for people to buy private insurance by certain ages bc they CAN'T have everyone on the gov't plan). She taught us that America is an "inherently racist" country and that because it always was, it always will be. The only thing we can do to try to make things better is to "vote for the right people." It was fairly obvious who she meant by that.
We should not teach our kids to rely on the state/government for our pay and our benefits. Sure, we need some government jobs, but sometimes all you get is a dentist bill and a momument for an overpaid coach.
See I knew I liked your style.
Texas should not secede. It should continue to grace the nation with its presence and lead the way from government dependence to freedom! What it needs to do is undo that sanctuary city crap and provide free one-way bus rides to NYC and San Francisco to get rid of the hippies, and then continue being the ass-kickingest state there is and show the libs how it's done.
Quick, Michelle, who was the richest man in America at the time of the Revolution? George Washington, right? Errrrrrrrt. No, I'm sorry, Michelle, you have to get out of the Cash Cab now.
You liked reading Zinn, but you don't understand that what you were reading was as made up as a Stephen King novel. Most of the stuff you read in that book is as made-up as an evil clown in the sewers. It isn't an "alternate history" told from "a different angle." That book is a pack of lies that you put into your head as truth.
Get to some real history books, stat. Or you're never going to win at the Jeopardy Home Edition.
that's true I forgot about the plan. However, as much detail isn't given, I don't think I should speculate on whether it's brainwashing or not. And I'm still inclined to side with that since all history is biased, why not? at least he has the grace to admit what he's doing and stick it in the preface. You said it yourself, warts and all. Our books are full of accounts of dramatized battles and heroic deeds, romantic myths of cherry trees. why does nostalgia make that any better? And to be clear, I've never once heard someone say they hate america, not even the most liberal of my firends, at worst they 'hate what its doing right now', and admit to being severely pissed off at the politicians and half of the population.
Hells yeah, go Mom! My parents did the same for me. They didn't indoctrinate me, they just taught me some good common sense. My "Neo-Marxist" history teacher couldn't compete with the truth!
I wonder if we can get a law passed like the one in England that prohibits political indoctrination of schoolchildren. That's why now, if a teacher in Britain shows Al Gore's crapumentary about AGW, it must be accompanied by information explaining what in the movie is questionable or flat out untrue.
Oh, the teacher called them "opposition makers"! Oh, that's so mean. Poor little, unwashed hippie children, being told they're full of it by their teacher. I cry.
You don't know anything about THE FLAG OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA – or – THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STAND, ONE NATION, UNDER GOD INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. You are un-American. The flag does not stand for ONE state, we are a united republic and the flag stand for a united American States – plural – making ONE nation. I am glad you don't say the pledge, because you wouldn't know what you are pledging. Go Back to your Country of origin, if you don't want to assimilate.
You think the way to fight the enemy is to starve your own army of soldiers? What you need to do is have as many children as you possibly can and make whatever sacrifices are necessary to see that they are raised right
The key is not to let the morons outbreed the intelligent people (Ever seen Idiocracy?). Fortunately, since abortion is still legal, the Left in this country is not operating at replacement level.
That and a few of these idiots doing the perp walk for sedition and child abuse. Telling kids they are evil for being American is just retarded.
Not to mention Capital One Services, although fortunately they seem to have withdrawn their support after 2005.
And they will be running this crap on the History Channel this Sunday night.
I'm a little confused… Are Zinn's conclusions lies, or are his sources falsified? Or does he just reach unpopular conclusions? Outright lies should be addressed; no matter which text you are examining. If there are obvious historical inaccuracies they should be pointed out- did Zinn assert that George Washington was the richest man in the US? History not based in fact is of no use to me… but I have had no evidence presented to me that shows Zinn to be a liar. (I'd happily take a look; no need for me to stay mad at Columbus if he really didn't brutalize the natives…)
I think in all teaching of history there should be a disclaimer about bias and perspective… and also that it would be inappropriate to teach with one text alone; especially one that focuses so much on social history. When I studied history in college we read history from distinct perspectives; art history and the us; American visions/dreams and the us; economic history of the US, military history of the US…. Each reached a different conclusion… and that conclusion was painted with a bias, depending on what type of book it was. (Art history and the US had a lot to say about the impact of art and architecture…which the economic history book never even mentioned. )
I agree. I dont really see the harm in it, or any text for that matter, as long as it is looked at critically and as you said, not taken as gospel. I wouldn't go so far as to say that these are facts, as they are subjective and first person stories, but I would say that they are likely easier to confirm than many a few hundred year old tale that we take for granted as truth today.
Have you ever glanced at the federalist papers? Spend some time reading them–then come back and tell me if we're supposed to be "one nation" or a collection of individual states. Also, read my response to EdSki.
People often wonder why Washington has gained so much control over us. It's because of folks like you, Mr. America, mindless nationalists who tie their personal identity up with the "greatness" of the centralized power of the federal government.
You want to know what nations look like? France. England. Germany. Italy. They're all controlled from the top down. We're the exact opposite, or at least we're supposed to be. We're supposed to be governed from the bottom up. That's what the Constitution demands: a republic made up of individual states–not "one nation."
Obama and his stooges are doing everything in their power to tear this nation apart, the old divide and conquer routine, then parcel out smaller factions to the highest bidders. The nature of change dictates before something is created, something must be destroyed, not always an easy process especially when it`s an entire socio-economic structure the size of USA he`s trying to replace. Indoctrinating young, impressionable minds is merely a spoke in the wheel.
[...] Adam Baldwin wonders about the legality of Zinn’s indoctrination plans: In “A People’s History,” [...]
Thank you for a very polite and reasoned response. I find very encouraging that some one your age is not only interested in political issues, but also has such a reasoned approach. You are to be commended.
You touch on several subjects, so I'll just pick a few to comment on.
I myself have never met any one in my life who honestly believe America is perfect. It's obviously not. But compared to all other societies through out human history, I firmly believe it is the best so far. The combination of individual freedom, capitalism, and democracy has produced a society where we are free to fail or succeed on our own, slaves to no one, our own masters. And just looking around, we have all the proof we need, that enables all of us, on our own, to together create unprecedented standard of living.
True there are those who fail, or for some reason, are prohibited from success, due to such things mental or physical disabilities. But in my opinion, if any person works hard enough, long enough, and doing what's required, its hard not to get ahead, over time. My own life proves it to me. I grew up dirt poor, struggled through college, and now am a staff engineer for a world wide corp. It wasn't easy, it wasn't cheap, and it took a lot of work over the years. But I succeeded because there was no government entity ordering me to do something else for the collective. So from that perspective, I do believe America is the best. Warts and all.
People who insist what I did accomplish, I could not, because America and capitalism are wrong, in my opinion are the enemy – metaphorically speaking, that is. And I will oppose them at ever turn, because I want the opportunity to succeed to be there for my daughter when she's an adult.
One last point about political infighting and turmoil. You are correct. American politics is down and dirty. But don't believe pundits who constantly say its never been worse. Trust me they'll be saying the same thing 50 years from now. It's been this way since about half way through Washington's second term, when the factionalists (now refered to as political parties) started vying for the office of President. No one dared say anything bad about Washington, his stature was beyond reproach, his reputation, nearly spot list, so no one dared touch him. How ever, with him safely out of office, the knives and long teeth came out in spades.
At the Constitutional Convention the delegates found they only agreed on one thing: they couldn't agree on anything. It soon became apparent the debates and arguments would never end. America was too big and too diverse. So, while working from Madison's frame work, they devised a process where the debates would never end: Congress. Bicameral to at least partially satisfy both big and small states. And they laid out rules (the Constitution) in a way that its basically a giant maze filled with speed bumps. The Senate has been described as the hardest place on earth to get anything done, and the easiest place to stop things.
The grand scheme was to take all the political leaders from all the different regions, lock them up in a hostile environment (DC was built on a drained swamp on purpose, to force them to adjourn during the summers), and let them fight with each other. The rules are so arcane and difficult, its impossible for any one person to accomplish anything. So they fight, they argue, the debate, they insult, eventually they compromise, and come up with laws that no one is perfectly happy with.
In other words, when politicians are screaming at each other, and it appears nothing is getting done, Congress is working exactly as designed. It's when they start accomplishing things government is broken.
Enjoy!
Actually, no. Do a little bit of research for free right here online and you'll find other scholars taking him to task on his bad scholarship.
It's agenda-driven education and, although he and his supporters like to say the 'few hundred year old tale' is the one that's agenda driven, they are the ones who can actually be proven to be prevaricators.
Precisely why we Homeschool, plain and simple. My children can ask any question they want and we can discuss ALL points of view and make our own judgements. We learn A LOT more this way. Thank you for standing for the Truth!
I would have to agree with most of what you say. Proof that liberals and conservatives are more alike than not! I believe in, generally, fiscal conservatism and social liberalism, to an extent.
I guess I have a bit of sympathy for the collective, considering I'm going to a (great!) public university, funded in large part by scholarships and federal grants. I think more social programs are necessary, to at least try. I mean, the goal is to help everyone without hurting anyone right? That's pretty darn awesome, idealistic, and unattainable. But it makes me feel better about living in a country that tries to do something like that.
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